GIFFEN On His Return To Comic Books, Blow-Ups With DC, ANNIHILATION,

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>I don't own a single comic I've done. They come and I flip through them, and then I either give them to my daughter or I give them away. I adopted that awhile ago.

>I can remember carrying boxes full of my Justice Leagues with Marc DeMatteis and throwing them in my neighbor's wood chipper.

>It's not disrespect for the industry. It's just that I don't want to be the guy who spends his career after a certain point looking back at what he did.

>I always hear that Bruce Springsteen song, "Glory Days": I never want to be that guy.

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>>88036913
>When I had this trouble, he stood up for me.
>Same thing when Anna died. I got the time that I needed off.
My list of reasons to like DC has just gotten longer.

>>88036991
>I don't own a single comic I've done. They come and I flip through them, and then I either give them to my daughter or I give them away
The same goes for my list of reasons to like Giffen.

>>88036991
hes got a point, why keep looking at the past ?

I fucking love Keef. I don't give a shit what you think about him or his work, he's my favourite.

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>>88036913
All this just makes me wonder how they can hate Dan, he legit looks like a great guy that stays up for the creators

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Why are DC guys such bros? Is it the California sun? Is it the mandatory gym membership?

>I recently got to know Tom King. I've read Tom's stuff. He was one of the new guys coming in. I thought he was a talented guy. I figured if I ever met him, I'd shake his hand and say "Hi," but I would never think I need to give advice.

>But I went to the Suicide Squad moviepremiere thing that DC had in New York, which was a mistake, because I'm not good at those functions.

>But I met Tom there, and we sat down and talked for a while, and I was about five minutes into the conversation with him when I realized, we're talking shop! I had not talked shop in years.

>When we were done talking, he walked away and I thought, it would never had dawned on me to do that. If somebody said, you want to sit down and talk shop? I might have had a couple names - the older guys - who I'd want to sit down and talk shop with. You know, people I'd done it with before. But to have this guy, you know, who's new, who's got such a great grasp of where his position is in the comic book industry, talking about he's taking over Batman and just storytelling approaches and new villains and how timely it should be.

>I mean, just talking about the nuts and bolts of comic books. It would have bored a fan to death. But it was kind of an experience for me.

>>88037123
Because a few years ago he sure didn't.

Dude isn't great creatively, I think, at least as the final word, but he's a good business guy to have in the EiC chair. Recent stories like this being the reason why.

>>88037205
Yea, people here are conveniently forgetting/weren't around for all the fuck ups he was responsible for not too long ago. Everyone rightly hated just how much he bought into the cheap tricks (killing Kord, the entirety of Countdown, etc.), and almost all of them were the type of things that would get him crucified by all but the densest of fanboys today.

>>88037410
> Nrama: They followed that (52) up with another weekly, Countdown. You were involved with that too?

>Giffen: Yes, because I forgot the prime rule, and that is that, once you go, "Oh, we're done with 52," everybody was exhausted. Everybody was exhausted. And the others said, "No way, I'm not doing another weekly. I'm wiped out." But like an idiot, I said, "OK, fine, I'll continue on Countdown."

>A lot of the stuff that went right with 52 went wrong with Countdown. And that's all I'm going to say on the topic, because I'm not here to paint targets on people or whatever.

>The magic that was there with 52 was not there with Countdown. End of story.

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>>88037410
>PLEASE KEEP HATING HIM

>>88037410
He seems to have learnd his lesson. Now if only brevoort would do the same.

>>88037496
Yeah, and in the interview Giffen's taking his share of the blame for stuff that went down-like Countdown.

and really, yeah, everyone should've known better.

>>88036913
I'll tell you something else: When I dropped dead, it was in my cardiologist's office from a cardiac arrest. So the timing was perfect.
top kek

>>88037536
It looks like the kind of gag you'd see in one of his comics.

>>88037496
As I've told my friends didio isn't perfect, but brevoort is the inhuman monster that they should be railing against.
But they'll crucify him for sneezing so this falls on deaf ears.
Took the piss right out of them when they found out about he worked on Reboot.

Nrama: You've been in the business a long time. Did you ever have any regrets, personally - all the hours you put into this stuff, the disagreements you've mentioned that you've had with DC. And I know your wife recently passed away. Do you wish you hadn't put in so much time? That pretty sad.

>>88037485

At least he acknowledges how poorly Countdown was done.

Man, that was a clusterfuck.

>>88037679
OK, that's it. I'm downloading that book and see if it's as bad as /co/ says protip: it won't, because /co/ is always wrong

>>88037738
oh you poor soul

don't fucking do it man

don't say you were not warned

>>88037738
Anon literally everybody thinks it's awful because it IS awful

There are a few Piper parts that are basically the only good parts.

>>88037738

http://www.comicsbeat.com/must-read-the-oral-history-of-countdown-to-final-crisis/

>it also provided us a near-perfect lab specimen of what an Editorially Driven Comic Book looks like. To a certainly extent, everything you can say about Countdown is true of nearly every Big Two superhero comic:

>It was published to fill a hole in the schedule
Non-Executive-Staff creative members were treated like interchangeable cogs, comic-producing machines Plot Events (and importance to the companywide Uberplot) were privileged over what would be traditionally called “story” and “character”
>It received constant “comics” “media” attention on the big blogs despite no one, not even the interviewers and DC employees extruding the book weekly, seemed to care in the least

Dude, it's fucking awful. Of course Giffen would try to downplay the blame; he's a stand up guy. But there's no getting around just how big a mess it was.

>>88037738
LOL

I bet you won't even make it to the end because it's 52 issues of dullness punctuated by flashes of pure shit

>>88036991
This.

If I had written a ton of comics, even bad ones, I would have a bookshelf full of all the trades. Not to read but to remind myself what I did and what I can still do.
Also I would push for all the trades to make an image if stacked together on a shelf.

>>88037205

Mark Waid: Dan Didio, who first championed the concept, hated what we were doing. H-A-T-E-D 52. Would storm up and down the halls telling everyone how much he hated it. And Steve (Wacker), God bless him, kept us out of the loop on that particular drama. Siglain, having less seniority, was less able to do so, and there's one issue of 52 near the end that was written almost totally by Dan and Keith Giffen because none of the writers could plot it to Dan's satisfaction. Which was and is his prerogative as EIC, but man, there's little more demoralizing than taking the ball down to the one-yard line and then being benched by the guy who kept referring to COUNTDOWN as "52 done right."

http://www.cosmicteams.com/legion/docs/artcl-AICN-Mark-Waid.htm

trololol

>>88037953
>Mark Waid
Stopped reading there.

>>88037953
>trololol
kill yourself

>>88036991
>It's just that I don't want to be the guy who spends his career after a certain point looking back at what he did.
Then why does he try to turn like half the books he works on into JLI homages?

>>88037187
It's abundantly clear right now that DC is a much better company to work for than Marvel.

And I don't mean that in a "company wars bait" way

DC's creative teams all seem to be gelling very well with editorial, while Marvel is reportedly one of the most miserable workplaces in the industry.


When was the last time you saw a pic of Brevoort where he didn't look dead inside ?

>>88037826
But he's right, /co/ is always wrong.

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>>88036913
>>I found out later on that Dan DiDio didn't just shove me aside and replace me. He set me in stasis. And the editors were told, we'll do fill-ins and stuff like that. But when he comes back, he comes back.
>>So when I came back, I just slid right back onto my books again. And that's another thing the Dan DiDio haters are going to despise. When I had this trouble, he stood up for me.
Based Didio

>>88038015
>Marvel is reportedly one of the most miserable workplaces in the industry.
Confirmed: >>87986373

>>88037978
I can believe waid when it comes to this. Dan Didio can be a nice dude personally but he's pig headed for good or bad.

>>88037205
>I know this is going to break the heart of so many comic book fans out there, but with Jaime, I was called by Dan DiDio. And he said, "I want a new Blue Beetle." And a majority of what was in that original series when we introduced the new Blue Beetle came from Dan.

>>88038015
>DC's creative teams all seem to be gelling very well with editorial
Remember early NuMetal52, though, when no one knew if they even had a plan, and writers and artists were leaving, left and right?

>>88037410
What about that whole Identity Crisis bullshit, was it his fault too?

>>88037611
>but brevoort is the Inhuman monster
you forgot the capital I

>>88037953
What not enough teen girls insulting people for you waid.

>>88037953
Countdown was shit, but I believe what Didio meant by "52 done right" is that it wasn't a fucking nightmare to organize. 52 is one of my favourite comics ever, but everything I hear about it makes it seem like a miracle it was ever finished, and we're probably never going to get another comic like it because balancing between all those different writers was a special brand of hell.

DC will give anything a mini-series

Marvel will give everything it thinks its popular its own spin-off

>>88037953
And because of this, Ralph Dibny got the perfect ending.

Thank you based Dan, and fuck you Waid.

>based Giffen

Giffen: It doesn't frustrate me. Everyone's always talking about "blue and gold," "blue and gold," and my attitude has been, well, it's time has passed.

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>>88037953
>Waid
>not lying

Pick one

>>88042827
can I ask, who is that image referring to?

Coates? Priest?

>>88038306
>Remember early NuMetal52, though, when no one knew if they even had a plan, and writers and artists were leaving, left and right?

What's your point? I'm not talking about 5 years ago


>NuMetal52

oh god, what? Limp Bizkit and Staind ongoings?

Is there a cartoon/comic book company that is not complete garbage if you're an average worker?

>>88043280
Image, because it only has like 5 actual employees. All the writers and artists and other creators are independent contractors, but they're treated fairly with decency and respect.

>>88043103
Coates, I guess. Priest is currently working with DC.

>>88043255
My bad, missed the "right now" part. Carry on.

>>88043255
>oh god, what? Limp Bizkit and Staind ongoings?
I'd read the shit out of a story that's basically Linkin Park saves the world.

>>88043103
Coates mentioned he sent some input on what he thought about killing Rhodey and they ignored him and did it anyway

>>88045895
jeez what's his problem, they replaced rhodey with a new black character, what's wrong with that??

>>88045952
The thing is, I can see certain writers unironically thinking that.
Looking at you there James "we erased Obsidian from existence but we made his dad gay so it's cool" Robinson.

>>88037410
I've really been wondering the last few years if Didio was really the idiot we all thought he was back then.

I'm sure he's had his fair share of bad decisions, and of course he's been overseeing one of the darkest eras in comic history since Identity Crisis, but was all that not just a reaction to Avengers Disassembled? And was the vast majority of comics fandom not buying into that edgy shit as well?

And in all fairness there was Wacker and Harras and Jim Lee too. Didio became the target of the entire DC fanbase's fury and vitriol but even back then he did a lot of good stuff like trying to keep prices down, championing niche books and keeping them alive well past the cancellation threshold, keeping that focus on legacy and history, and of course letting absolute madmen like Morrison and Giffen run wild.

>>88038306
New 52 was so obviously masterminded by Lee and Harras. Didio is a huge fag for continuity and Morrison and Johns, literally their two biggest writers were vehemently against it, it even drove off Waid and Rucka.

Obviously we may never know the real story but it seems to me like they were putting together their pitch for the Justice League movie and decided to make it a launching point for a reboot, they looked and said "hey, we've got an event coming up about the Flash, let's use that as our impetus for the reboot even though it doesn't make any sense" and then repurposed their upcoming books to just be reboots instead. Like two or three guys (namely Lobdell) seemed to actually be writing from the standpoint of being a reboot from the beginning, hence all the completely retarded changes in Outlaws and Titans.

Someday I'm going to go through literally everything that was said about Flashpoint, Justice League, and New 52 and try to piece together as much of the story as possible.

>>88043514
>All the writers and artists and other creators are independent contractors, but they're treated fairly with decency and respect.

Unless you're Tom Fowler, in which case they cancel the last issue of the book you're trying to finish as you're going blind.

>>88047071
Would you care to elaborate?

>>88047241
He's got some kind of degenerative eye thing, and they cancelled the last issue of Beyond Belief because he was taking too long to finish.

>>88045952
Yeah I mean, now Rhodey, Tony and Rescue fans all can just like an all-new, all-different character instead, right? And tumblr is appeased, even though they don't count! Everyone wins! :D

>>88047304
This sounds odd. Can you provide me with a source?

>>88036913
based didio

>>88047304
Really?
Because like, there's a comic at Image that just got it's second issue, and the first issue came out two years ago or so. I was under the impression that, at least under modern Image, that no comic is ever "cancelled" they just... fade away into nothing.

>>88047390
Yes.

Although I fucked up. It was Phil Hester, not Tom Fowler.
http://comicsbulletin.com/phil-hester-emerging-worst-year-life-professionally/

>>88047612
It says that Image didn't cancel it, they just put some pressure on the creative team.

>>88038029
literally only plebs think in such extremes

>>88037187
>Is it the mandatory gym membership?
is that real?

>>88036913
DiDio is love

>>88047790
I don't know if it's mandatory, but pretty much all of DC's main line of writers and artists are fucking JACKED.

>>88046759
People can be mixed bags.

>>88047811
but do they actually get a gym membership? I know that at places like Disney the workers (I have no idea if its just higher up people like writers or all people) have access to an on site gym.

>>88047897
I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't actually know.

>>88047910
dang, they would be the most bro company ever

>>88037611
>Took the piss right out of them when they found out about he worked on Reboot.
Yeah, but he also worked on Beast Machines.

>>88048029
Beast Machines was awesome though.

>>88048107
Trukk not monky

>>88048107
>You know what Transformers didn't have enough of?
>Hippies! Hippies and preaching about how technology is wrong!

If it weren't for Japan, BM would be one of the worst Transformers series, easily.

>Dickfags still hating Dan because he wanted to rightly kill him off

What an obnoxious fanbase

>>88048555
Trips confirm.
WHERE ARE MY FINGERSTRIPES?

>>88037061
Your past is your legacy. What you create now and what you created then, is what you'll leave behind when you're gone. It's humbling to be aware of how far you've come and how far you can still push yourself to go.

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>>88037187

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This isn't to say that Didio isn't a bro, but I've read both really great things and really bad things about him.

>>88049416
to be fair Gotham Central sold well under cancellation numbers

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>>88038015
>DC is a much better company to work for than Marvel
I think even Marvel fans would agree with that.

>>88049608
Only "fans" who would disagree are X-fans. Moment they weren't on pedestal they started whining.

>>88037826

What's worse is I remember the important stuff not even happening in Countdown. Flash Dying. Death of the New Gods, Finding Atom, Arena, etc. So it danced around all these events without ever actually providing the events.

>>88049730
That way you had to buy those books

>>88048950

Except you still have those memories.

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>>88048555
Gets me every time

>>88049877
LITERALLY SHAKING

>>88049730
Tie-Ins ruined Countdown, well bad writing ruined Countdown but when Countdown had cool moments they were followed up somewhere else most of the time unlike in 52 which only tie-in IIRC was World War 3.

What I like most about Keith Giffen is he puts it all out there, in every interview you can see something like the whole of the person he is. I guess he's at the age where you no longer give a fuck but still.

>>88036913
One good deed doesn't erase the shit he pulled.

Fuck Didio for Nu52.

>>INB4 "Ow the edge!"

THe Stockholm Syndrome in this thread is so thick even a chainsaw can't cut it.

Didio isn't going to sleep with ANY of you no matter how much you suck his dick, senpais.

>>88047897
>>88047910

Since they moved it might be a mandate from WB?

>>88050352

Didio kept Jonah Hex alive for years. I don't give a fuck about Countdown being shit in light of that

>>88037953
>SJWaid
>>>/co/micsalliance