"No Killing" is bullshit

that punisher guy seems to kill

Makes it a lot harder to deal with police, defeats "morality" argument when dealing with legislation.

You would like Punisher

>>88027110
Then don't read superhero comics. There's plenty of other stuff out there.

File: Judge Dredd 128.jpg (326KB, 877x1240px) Image search: [Google]

326KB, 877x1240px

Judge Dredd
Jonah Hex
Punisher (esp. Marvel Knights and MAX runs)
Hitman (by Ennis and McRea)

>>88027110
For non-cape stuff, Cerebus is pretty good.

>>88027129

I definitely loved him in the daredevil netflix series. However I try to stay away from marvel comics, as I love the MCU and don't usually want to deal with conflicting comics timelines and other discrepancies.

File: Punisher 01.jpg (101KB, 517x792px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 517x792px

>>88027151
Ennis' Punisher MAX is probably your best bet, then. It's set entirely in its own universe, with no other superheroes running around.

Foolkiller

>>88027110
Try characters like Punisher, Wolverine, Moon Knight, Midnighter, Ghost Rider if you want some anti-heroes that don't care about the no kill rule.

>>88027179
It's also considered one of, if not the definitive Punisher run.

File: Untitled.png (390KB, 425x435px) Image search: [Google]

390KB, 425x435px

IDW's Transformers

>>88027222
I need to get into that. Can I just start with the collections or do I need prior knowledge of any Transformers stuff?

>>88027110
No killing (or killing only in extreme circumstances) gives you much more story possibilities to work with, since villains can come back, the hero can more easily be beaten, he can be grimdark but he doesn't have to be, etc.

Whereas if you have a killer as your protagonist, your only choice is either a grimdark edgelord hero, or a parody like Deadpool. Both of which get boring fast.

File: idw g1 guide.png (202KB, 1092x1441px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 1092x1441px

>>88027239
IDW's main Transformers series is its own universe, so nah you're good.

>>88027110

Don't read cape comics. Problem solved.

File: 8378.jpg (30KB, 400x623px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 400x623px

Sorry OP, but the sad fact is that most pro-killing mainstream books are boring generic grim 90's junk.

THAT SAID, there's an exception to every rule, and in this case that exception is one of the best comics of all time.

Go read Hitman. 61 issues, classic DC series. You won't be sorry.

>>88027249
Nah. Those two archetypes are people who can kill because they don't care about the moral side of it. There are a shit ton of ways to write a character who kills, from edgy chaotic neutral asshats like you're talking about to white knights who only do it if they have no other options.

>It gives you more story possibilities
This is true, but it's not a justification.

>>88027261

Is this the same universe as transformers armada?

>>88027314
>IDW's main Transformers series is its own universe

File: 1403746237839.gif (2MB, 300x204px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 300x204px

>>88027110
>So I'm getting into comics, but one theme that I find completely irrational and can't stand is the whole "no killing" troupe
You're reading capeshit, there's your mistake. Comics are a very broad medium, with lots of really great original stories and series, and you'd be doing yourself a disservice to ignore them. Unless you're just reading them for the "nerd cred" and being able to tell your friends about the backstory of the characters in the latest piece of shit blockbuster, natch.

>>88027110
Aside from the obvious Punisher and Wolverine, there's also X-Force, Cable, Black Widow, Thor, Black Panther, the GotG, Agent Venom, Hulk, Namor and Ghost Rider.
They're all willing to kill if needed.

>>88027110
It works in degrees. It generally depends on the rogues gallery and the way they are set up.
Generally it works with Spider-Man, because in general despite his villains being apathetic to murder, that's not necessarily their goal. He can still find ways to avoid killing by getting them out of the way, and sometimes even making deals with them. Then when guys like Norman pop up, the usually use the idea that someone that violent will end themselves with the same thing. Keeps the recurring theme or irony in Pete's life without making him kill. Carnage is an exception that leads to a dilemma for Peter, and usually despite his sprees he can usually be contained or stalled.

Batman is where it gets fucking stupid. Most of his rogues immediately kill anything that breathes, and they go in and out of Arkham like a revolving door.

>>88027467
Yeah, even if we ignore the Joker, Batman's entire rogues gallery have all been turned into mass murderers over the years. Zsasz being the obvious worst offender, he probably has a higher body count that the Joker depending on the artist.

>>88027452

When people talk about capes, do they literally mean heroes with capes, or any kind of superhero protagonist, anything from marvel/DC, or what specifically?

I saw some reccomendations list for exploring comics as a medium, but I really don't care for mundane things or commentaries, I read comics for the specific kind of story, not for the medium itself. I started reading comics because I loved watching the MCU, and wanted more of that kind of content. It just so happens that that comes in the form of comments.

>>88027547
"Capes" is shorthand for the superhero genre. Spider-man would be considered a cape comic, even though he doesn't wear a cape.

>I read comics for the specific kind of story
Elaborate

>>88027467
Spider-man ripped a woman's face off once and keeps a black suit around for when he wants to maim/kill someone.

His reason for not killing people is the completely reasonable "I don't want to be a killer". He doesn't need to kill to apprehend so he doesn't. That's not his job. It's Deadpool's, and he hates that job.

Batman's completely fucking insane and his reasons for not killing are
>he likes to see his enemies suffer in defeat
which is understandable
>he's afraid he'd snap and go on a villain murder spree not caring who tries to stop him or gets caught in the crossfire
which is crazy but probably true
>he's afraid Gotham would just replace who he killed with something worse
which is true because DC
>

File: Ms.-Marvel-028-010.jpg (1MB, 1405x2160px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1405x2160px

>>88027454
Captain Marvel, too.

>>88027222
I appreciate you taking the time to spoiler-proof that image, bruh. Also, nice trips.

File: Avengers-Trivia-Black-Widow-Chair-Fight.jpg (24KB, 420x350px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 420x350px

>>88027592

The entire MCU is really cool, with tons of interconnected plots with a lot of continuity. I loved a lot of the plots that were more overarching, such as fighting what appeared to be the whole world for daredevil when kingpin had his hand in every pie, or when shield was secretly infiltrated with hydra the whole time. Watching the reveal of hydra change both agents of shield and the way that the avengers had to operate was really interesting.

Also things like Tony Stark and Black Widow just being badasses.

File: 1464135234734.jpg (557KB, 1080x1660px) Image search: [Google]

557KB, 1080x1660px

anyone can take a life anon. it takes a hero to save one though

>>88027110
There's a time and place for a lethal response to a threat.

Superheroes should be capable of a measured response instead of NO KILLING EVER or KILL MY WAY DOWN THE SLIPPERY SLOPE

>>88027110
It is a pretty short list of people who don't kill.
It is like Batman, Superman, Spiderman, Flash, some of the Teen heroes; and even then they've had to kill at least once.

The rest are willing to kill, some default to it.
Your Punisher, Red Hood, Vigilante, Spectre and most big magic users in general, space guys like Nova or GL usually have to off an alien monster once in a while, etc

Really it is just a few silver age heroes who still go No Kill on principle of trying to set example, while most are fine resorting to killing.

>>88027151
Then go back to /tv/ faggot.

But seriously, Marvel characters don't hold this rule as often DC ones. If you want murder go with them.

>>88027311
>white knights who only do it if they have no other options

but that IS every "no-kill" character... I don't think any of them have clean hands.

>>88027831
Except alot of writers have them do something a hundred time worse than just killing the bad guy because "killing is badong".
Like putting the antagonist in an eternal hell dimension or stasis or time loop where he will survive and suffer immeasurable torture forever with no intention of ever bringing them out of it, because in writers minds that is someone less evil than just snuffing them out quickly.

>>88027110
All of the stuff done by Mike Mignola is what you're looking for then. OR pretty much any wapanese shonen manga, if you're villain isn't even remotely popular expect the heroes to start racking up killcounts in the double or even triple digits as the story goes on. Jap heroes have a very confusing idea of what "mercy" means when dealing with your average mook.

>>88027110
Punisher (DO NOT READ ANY OF THE RECENT VOLUMES THOUGH THEY ARE TERRIBLE)
Hitman
Nexus
Conan
Kull
Solomon Kane
Hawks of Outremer
Luther Strode
G.I. Joe
The Boys
Martha Washington
Ronin
Polar
Sin City
Scout
The Prowler
Marshal Law
Painkiller Jane
Dreadstar
Jon Sable Freelance
American Flagg!
Thrud the Barbarian
Button Man
Largo Winch
Judge Dredd
Missionary Man
Alien Legion
Lobo
Red
Damned
300
Cormac Mac Art
Hard Boiled
Anna Mercury
Vampirella
Grendel

>>88027151
Read the older stuff. 2010s Marvel is literally the worst comics publisher ever.

>>88027775
You are such a fucking faggot.

>>88027955
Oh, and Foolkiller (THE ORIGINAL FROM 1990 NOT ANY OF THE VERSIONS SINCE THEN).

>>88027947
Goku? He lets more villains walk than superman after he become an adult.

"You're a genocidal galactic emperor who is stronger than basically everyone else? You are still entirely capable of killing entire planets whenever you get pissy? Meh I'm bored now since I seem to be stronger than you, run free and continue to genocide"

Fuck even after that he literally gave the bad guy power to survive and flee the planet, and even after finally getting backstabbed one too many times in the fight he finally struck back... but haldassed it so much he didn't even finish off the 3/4-dead villain.

Kid Goku was so much better, he didn't do this shit, if you were a major villain who threatened the world or his friends he smote your ass.

>>88027620
Wasn't that a what-if?

>>88027249
>Both of which get boring fast.

Yeah, because the villain coming back again and again, killing more innocents again and again and the author trying to justify this every time is not boring.

Well, if you like eat shit I guess it is not.

>>88028017
>people with different tastes
Shit eaters.
Go on, anon, I am facinated.

>>88028003
Yes, but Goku is a functional moron. Anything unrelated to fighting he doesn't know and could literally give no fucks about it, so for him letting a powerful enemy go is just like saying " You're pretty good, so lets have a rematch later down the line when you get stronger." Goku really is like some idiot savant for fighting.

>>88027955
>>88027969
Oh, and manga in general.

>>88028050
No need, dcuck.

>>88027222
Perfect answer to the "if we kill him, he wins" argument.

>>88028003
He became like that because the transition to a fighting manga sucked the joy, creativity and comfort from the series. If he wasn't that kindhearted the comic would completely become engulfed in a tone Toriyama dislikes.

>>88028365
No, Toriyama being a hack sucked the creativity from the manga, around the point he started making Earthlings only generic humans instead of also the wild monster and beast people he used to have before.

>>88028399
Honestly I can't blame him for getting lazy once the transition started. When you've got a gig where you actually get to have fun designing whatever the fuck yoy want and your other project has become an obligation? I'd be halfassing it too.

At least he actually TRIED to have fun in the last few years after literally doing as little as possible with Cell and still getting unending praise.

>>88027110
Just stay away from most capeshit, then. The "no-kill" rule was initially just to help adhere to the CCA, and what happened was that for 30+ years, it ended up being the only thing that never changed about some characters, simply because it couldn't. Now it is so tightly integrated into heroes like Batman that you can't remove it or manchildren will pitch a fit.

It's gotten even worse since the MoS and the snap heard 'round the world. Now the no-kill rule has become the catalyst for some kind of circle jerk among neckbeard shut-ins who don't actually know how the world works outside of funny pages.

I think superheros should suck off their enemies instead of beating them up. That way you don't go down the slippery slope of beating up everyone you see.

>>88028957
But won't that just ENCOURAGE their enemies to keep committing crimes? To be rewarded with oral sex?

Or are we talking about a hero with the superpower to suck so good that it leaves his enemies completely drained and comatose, unable to commit crimes due to the mindless state of bliss inflicted upon them?

>>88028957
>>88028982
If Batman sucked off his villains they would be too weirded out by it and stop committing crimes. Except for Joker. He would try to come up with a plan to suck off Batman.

>>88027110
Most heroes will kill if necessary, but they will often try to avoid it if they can for various reasons. It would make trouble with the law, it could turn the public against them, they don't think it's their job to decide who lives and dies, hell maybe they just don't want to be a killer. The only ones I can think of that would go to extreme lengths to avoid killing someone are Superman and the Flash, who have enough power to get away with it, and Batman, who's crazy. And even Superman and Flash are willing to use lethal force if absolutely necessary. Both have their share of kills over their history. Really the only hero that absolutely will not kill under any circumstances is Batman, which can easily be explained by the fact that he's a crazy person.

File: ThePro.jpg (87KB, 640x440px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 640x440px

>>88027110

The main character in this one makes a good point. The guy aimed a gun at her, why would she NOT kill him in self-defence, even if she would have superpowers?

File: Vigilante 40-05.jpg (468KB, 1200x1829px) Image search: [Google]

468KB, 1200x1829px

If you want a realistic portrayal of lethal vigilantism with a character that struggles off and on with that kind of moral code (and eventually succumbs to a mental breakdown), read the 80s Vigilante.

>>88027110
The "No killing" thing is practical for comics. If the hero kills all of his rogues , then the writer/artists keeps having to come up with new ones and make them interesting. Eventually there would be some overlap when a few years after killing "The Jokester" your hero is going up against "the laughing guy" somebody will notice the recycling

>>88028124
Nah, if you kill a villian they are liberated and absolve for their crimes, as death is freedom from living.

Criminals and villians need to rot in goddamm prison and contemplate on their actions.

File: super cereal.png (14KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 500x500px

>Don't drag things out for another several chapters
>Don't tell a story

If you want the conflict to resolve itself in a couple of pages, why are you even reading superhero comics?

>>88027547
we mean literally capes, they have to wear a cape, we as humans have no capacity for representational speech

>>88028957
>Superman suck you off
>yank off your dick
>Human Torch suck you off
>your dick becomes a charred hotdog
Yeah, sure sound fun, anon.

>>88029685

Dragging things out is specifically not telling a story. Its just stretching it.

>>88029685
Streching is needlessly extending an already existing arc and simply padding it out without any form of progression until the very climax and conclusion.

>>88029695
Superman can be gentle, Human Torch can turn his flames off before doing it.

"No Kill" rules are every bit as retarded as "Kill Every Criminal" rules. A hero shouldn't be beholden to either, but should make judgment calls in the moment dependent on both the context and the criminal in question. The power level of the hero is also an important factor to consider. If a hero is bulletproof and super strong and mostly deals with street level criminals, they don't really need kill save in situations where doing so would prevent innocent lives from being lost. But if they're just a guy in a suit with combat training (and not "peak human" bullshit that's really just flat out superhuman ability like Batman), they can't really be faulted for using lethal force against criminals with guns.

>>88029311

The thing that made me make this thread was reading Green Arrow, year one, where he is trapped on an island with a small army trying to kill him, but he refuses to kill any of them in self defense. He even tries to stop the enslaved people from killing them!

Its not like there is a government there, and the population is FOR killing the villains. But he doesn't kill because [no reason]

>>88029968
That sounds tarded. Like sticking an arrow up your pooper tarded.

>>88029631
Comicbooks should end, not continue on for infinity.

Even manga franchises are ending up like Big Company comicbooks now, being brought back after ending to crank out more grass for the cash cow.

>>88030035
>Comicbooks should end, not continue on for infinity.

No, they shouldn't. Endless continuity is one of the unique aspects of mainstream American comics that sets them apart from all others.

It's amazing that you can read stories in a shared universe and continuity spanning 80+ years.

>>88027110
It makes sense for some characters.
For example Batman, Batman's reason for not killing isn't one of practicality after all if he cared about such a thing he would use a firearm, the reason Batman doesn't kill is because he realizes that it's one of the only things separating him from the lunatics he fights, A man dressing up like a bat and beating serial killers with his fists and jumping off roofs isn't sane it is not a rational response to crime and Bruce realizes this the line separating him from the monsters is very thin and faint so he draws the line in the sand at murder it's the one thing he refuses to do because otherwise how much different is he from them other than body count?

As for say Superman it's more an issue of perception, Clark wants people to see him as a symbol of hope, someone they can trust, however what would they think of him if he killed the enemies he fought? Unlike with a human superhero Clark always has to fight against the natural fear and unease that human beings have about person with his powers, it's one thing for a normal person to use lethal force to save someone but if he with all his strength were to do it he would terrify people, they would become scared of him and the possibility that next time it won't just be a criminal or super villain he kills. With that said I think that if the fate of the world hinged on the death of an enemy Clark would kill if he saw no other option but it would haunt him because violence is not in his nature.
With other characters a no killing rule may or may not be more illogical.

>>88029695
Sounds fun, I'd read it.

>>88029694
>we mean literally capes, they have to wear a cape

So Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, almost all of the X-Men, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman are not cape comics/"capeshit"? Got it.

>>88030078
Fuck off mate, its not 80+ years of continuity considering the endless retcons and universe resets.

>>88030114
Retcons and universe ends are part of continuity, just some tools on the glorious continuity toolbox.

The Marvel and DC universes are two of the largest shared cultural creations in human history, creations worked on by thousands (maybe tens of thousands at this point) of people across decades and countless individual works.

You, and all of us, should be in awe of them.

>>88030078

>It's amazing that you can read stories in a shared universe and continuity spanning 80+ years.

Please tell me where I can find that, because all I see is 75 different parallel universes of superman and batman where nothing is the same and heroes sometimes are villians depending on the book run.

>>88030207
That's it. You've found it. The parallel universes are part of it.

Enjoy, friend!

>>88027110
Well heroes are not morally obligated to kill someone if the justice system fails then that's the shit justice system.

That said outside of Spider-Man and some teen heroes most of the Marvel characters have no problem with killing.

Outside of Gruenwald's run (and even in there he ended up killing someone) Captain America has no problem killing and he always killed but he leaves it as a last resort, heck with Red Skull he shows no mercy and he has killed him and watched him die so many time but the Red Skull keeps coming back.

Iron Man and Thor also have no problem killing their bad guys, same with the X-Men heck Kitty is fond of phasing her hand into people's bodies and taking out their vital organs. I'm pretty sure all Cosmic heroes have killed at one point.

File: 019.jpg (2MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1988x3056px

>>88028124
You'll like this too, then.

>>88030264

Parallel universes are not continuous. When one thing happens in one, it might not happen in the other. Thats the exact definition of not continuous.