This is the one episode I always hated in Avatar. How does a

>>88021965

But if he had a great life then Katara would have killed him.

If the one episode you hated wasn't Sozin's Comet then you are objectively wrong.

>>88022029
>Sozin's Comet
That was 4 episodes ya dingus

>>88022026
Not necessarily.

Imagine if he was wealthy and the episode led on that he had a great house and was loved by his village, later to reveal that he had started taking in orphans as a way of atoning for what he did.

>>88021965
>A country doesn't treat it's military well

You need to get out into the real world and stop living in your survivalist fantasies.

>>88022146
The Fire Nation always struck me as one that would greatly reward successful military personnel.

>>88022146

Grunts don't get treated well. Officers generally have better retirement plans.

>>88021965
One can suppose his campaign was a failure, the war against the watertribe was to defeat the tribes and find the next potential Avatar since the airbenders were gone

No Avatar was found, and the Watertribes remained undefeated

>>88021965
Dishonorable discharge.

>>88022146
Tell that to Zhao. He fucked up all the time and became an Admiral for it

Also, I don't see how survivalism applies in this context.

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>>88022220

>>88021965
Wasn't he considered a sub par general after the 600 day siege of ba sing sae?

>>88022216
>the war against the watertribe was to defeat the tribes and find the next potential Avatar since the airbenders were gone

nigger did you skip The Avatar and The Firelord?
All Firelords after Sozin tried to hunt down the last airbender and failed. They knew he was supposed to be an airbender. They weren't hunting for the Avatar in the Water Tribes, they were wiping out anyone with waterbending.

>>88022125
well that would make Katara instant turn away from kill him.
I agree this made no sense, but it was the best context to let him live

>>88022307
>well that would make Katara instant turn away from kill him.

Would it? She wanted to see him miserable, not happy.

I just hated how much of a bitch Katara was in that episode. How the fuck does she think she loves her and Sokka's mother more than her own brother?

>>88022224
Zhao was probably related by blood or marriage to a noble line to keep getting chances like that. I mean fuck look what happened to Zuko.

>>88022026
You say that like its a bad thing..?

>>88022417
Zuko's circumstances were quite a bit different. He didn't make serious mistakes, Ozai just started hating him to spite Ursa.

>>88022291
The firelords did hunt the Avatar, but their failure is not a punishable offense as they sit on top of the hierarchy, punishing a Fire Nation admiral for botching an invasion and trying to capture the Avatar is the equivalent of Darth Vader strangling imperial officers for botching invasions and finding the Rebels

Also the Fire Nation was most definitely making sure the Avatar would be captured if he was a waterbender or killed, or that the waterbenders would be gone and ending the cycle that way. If not why would they be exterminating the waterbenders and putting them in death camps while the Earthbenders are left alive?

>>88021965

It would have been interesting if the dude was a well adjusted, regular guy living his retirement comfortably, and when Katara tries to confront him he says he did what he did for the war and he is proud to have served his nation and would not apologize, then Katara gets pissed and confronts him to a battle and he dances circles around him because she's out of focus, however because of his age he makes a mistake and allows Katara to have an opening where he manages to wound him. Then when he's on the ground he'll say how he's willing to die for what he believed in and his death wont bring Katara's mother back or anything, then after some more convincing from Zuko she finally decides to heal his wound and leave him be. Cue the same ending of the episode as it happened.

>>88022590
Probably because the water tribe was a small tribe and the earth kingdom was a fucking continent spanning kingdom

>>88022224
Actually Zhao only faced the Avatar once before he was promoted to Admiral, and the failure could easily have been blamed on the Fire Sages and Zuko instead

Zhao could possibly have been promoted for military successes outside of trying to catch the Avatar

>>88022370
That was the point. She was going too far.

>>88022029
That's not The Painted Lady.

If Avatar had been for mature audiences, would Katara have killed him? Or would she have spared him no matter the age rating?

>>88022417
Happened in real life too. Royals and nobles that wanted their kids to serve but also didn't want them to get killed would use their status and money to buy their children officer positions. Can't have little Johnny stabbed to death by some dirty peasant now, can we?

>>88022667
The size of the kingdom isn't an excuse, the fire nation had plenty of captured earthbenders, and even used some as soldiers after the fall of Ba Sing Se. Meanwhile they had a directed campaign towards exterminating the waterbenders just as they had exterminated the airbenders. We knows it was a targeted campaign, we don't know for certain why, but one could easily guess where the new avatar would be born if all the airbenders were truly gone

>>88022146
True,low ranking soldiers get treated like shit. but Yon Rha was a high ranking commander. He should have been living like a king in a feudal civilization like the Fire Nation.

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>>88022675
>got ass kicked by disgraced son of your ruler
>let the Avatar communicate with Roku and figure out Ozai's plan, leading to the destruction of the fire temple and dissolution of the fire sages
>burns down his own fleet of ships while fighting the Avatar
>let a commander guilty of desertion escape due to the above
>locked the Avatar in a maximum security prison with no hope of escape - and he still lost him
>got promoted to Admiral

HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

>>88022224
>He fucked up all the time
He really didn't. He failed to capture the Avatar twice and succeeded once (he couldn't have planned for Zuko interfering), but otherwise his reputation was pretty solid and his ability well shown in the first season.

>>88022675
Zhao also succeeded in capturing Aang with the Yuyan Archers. If it wasn't for Zuko, Zhao would have seen Aang given over to the Fire Lord.

>>88022716
You can skip the Painted Lady.

>>88022806
Problem is his promotion happened before most of that happened, and we don't know how his military career was besides trying to capture the Avatar, considering the Earth Kingdom was on the run it couldn't have been too bad

>>88022829
Which is worse, The Painted Lady or The Divide?

>>88022853
>Problem is his promotion happened before most of that happened

No it didn't. The first time he's introduced, it's captain Zhao.

>>88022881
Yes, but his only failure before promotion was the events at Roku's island, and he could easily blame the Fire Sages and Zuko for that blunder

>>88022963
What about The Deserter? Or Imprisoned? You'd think Ozai would be pissed regardless of the excuse.

>>88023007
Both happened after promotion, and he could easily prevent any demotion by just neglecting to mentioning them to the Firelord, instead just keep up the good news about the Earth Kingdom's fall being within reach and keep trying to get the Avatar

>>88023007
The Deserter happened after his promotion. He even throws his promotion of admiral in Jeong Jeong's face.

'Imprisoned' doesn't feature Zhao, you're probably thinking of the episode 'the Blue Spirit', which was the episode where he was promoted to admiral, right at the start and giving him authority to take the Yuyan archers.

>>88022370
Because she heard him say that he couldn't remember her face in a previous episode.

>>88023063
Didn't he get promoted gradually throughout the season? Seems like every time he introduced himself he would correct a person with his new title.

>>88022370
Sometimes people (characters) say things they don't mean out of frustration, anonymous.

>>88023150
Nope, promoted once from commander to admiral, but he did like to boast, did name himself Zhao the Conqueror, Zhao the Moonslayer, Zhao the invincible!

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Daily reminder Zhao was the best ATLA villain

>>88023150
When he was first introduced he told Iroh he had been promoted from captain to commander (we don't know when this happened, only that it was after Zuko's exile). In the Blue Spirit he was promoted to admiral.

>>88023206
No no, Azula was definitely better, but Jason Isaacs was a good beginning, too bad his cameo in Legend of Korra was pretty limited

>>88023187
Technically, he did become Zhao the Invincible.

>>88022370
That's totally real though. Some people cope with grief and move on more easily than others. And then when the less-capable person see's the more capable person not being as mopey and obsessed with the death as them they assume they must have just not loved the dead person as much as they did. I've seen it happen in my own family.

>>88022857
Painted Lady

At least the Great Divide had the excuse of the show still being new and finding its way.

Painted Lady wasted time on another village of retards when we could have gotten some lion turtle foreshadowing, some Zuko/Ozai/Azula stuff, or some invasion planning. Instead we get Katara jeopardizing the fate of the world because she can't look at the bigger picture.

>>88022881
Then he became commander so I guess he got demoted.

>>88023355
Isn't commander > captain? Not sure about ranks in Avatar.

>>88022806
I mean.

He didn't.

The ocean, uh. Took him.

>>88023238
>Azula
>a good villain
Pick one.

She was good the first time you watch, but she's more the product of luck and plot armor when you re-watch.

>>88023551
All the characters have luck now and then, except Zuko, the universe loves shitting on Zuko, but I like Azula as a villain and where it eventually led, she completely outplayed everyone at the end of season 2 and made the Empire Strikes Back look almost cheerful in comparison, then in season 3 she starts out at top, but by the end is completely broken, no redemption, no ironic fate, just an angry insane person who has been utterly defeated

>>88021965
>How does a high-ranking commander retire and end up living in squalor with his bitch mother?
Maybe Bryke wanted to show that given all the atrocities he committed, he still had ampathy, one consisting of taking care of a family member while setting aside wealth and luxury.

>>88021965
I always thought this episode would have been way better if he was caring for his dying mother rather than she just be a random bitch. Katara could have learned something,

Could Azula beat Ozai in Agni-Kai?

>>88023551
The people who declare Azula to be a great villain usually let their dicks do their thinking.

>>88023670
Agni Kai I would think Ozai still has a experience and raw power advantage, if Azula was at the same age though and equal in experience she probably would handily defeat him

The thing with Azula though is that before she went completely off the rails she wouldn't fight a fight she didn't know she could win or not, she would only fight battles that were stacked in her favor

>>88023633
He suggests Katara kill his mother to make them even. He's kind of a slimeball.

>>88023374
In the real world and the US navy, yes. Avatar obviously follows a different rank structure.

>>88023670
She cannot even beat Katara in a 1 v 1

>>88023617
>she completely outplayed everyone at the end of season 2
But she didn't. Her coup was pretty dumb in hindisght.

>a minute away from being discovered in your disguise by the Gaang
>Fire Nation gets BTFO at everything and there's no incentive for the Dai Li to side with them
>Dai Li go with Azula after some edgy speech that only a teenager thinks sounds good

Zuckerman released some more Korra music a couple days ago.
https://soundcloud.com/jeremy-zuckerman/inside-makos-sacrifice#t=0:00

Fuck Nick for not giving us an OST compilation.

>>88023739
Those were extenuating circumstances and you know it.

>>88023729
No, the posters above were wrong, there was no demotion, Zhao was a captain before the show, then in the third episode presents himself as commander and tells Iroh he's been promoted, so commander is definitely a higher rank than captain in Avatar

>>88023788
I didn't follow/read the chain of replies properly.

What I meant was 'commander' is a lower rank in the contemporary US Navy than captain. In Avatar, that's not so.

>>88023757
>still no music released for Korra vs. Zaheer

kill me now

>>88021965
I don't know, maybe it was because the South Water Tribe continued to be a thorn in the Fire Nation's side long after his campaign? And maybe he wasn't so high-ranking after all. Or maybe it was because in a war against the North Tribe, Earth Nation, and South Tribe, being stuck around the South Water Tribe was one of the shittier commands one could get.

Consider that Zuko had command as a cruel joke because finding the avatar was considered an impossible task and everyone knew it and his competition was Zhao, who got bested by children over and over again and sucked at conventional warfare.

>>88023752
>>Fire Nation gets BTFO at everything and there's no incentive for the Dai Li to side with them

The Earth Kingdom has limited time left as the show begins, the Fire Nation is pushing them hard and as season 2 progresses they have conquered the second most important city in the kingdom and are knocking at Ba Sing Se's gates, the Dai Li's future under the Earth King is also uncertain, their leader has been put in prison for treason, and their source of power at the court is now gone

>Dai Li go with Azula after some edgy speech that only a teenager thinks sounds good

Well look away from the tone that you obviously disagree with, and look at what is said, Azula is pointing out the lack of authority Long Feng sits with, Ba Sing Se is loyal to the Earth King and the monarchy, not a bureaucrat that is a traitor to the Kingdom. Meanwhile Azula sits in a position to ensure the Dai Li remains in power, she has an army to occupy the city right outside its walls, and she sits with the mandate to rule, the Dai Li recognize their future is more certain with Azula than Long Feng

>>88023877
>who got bested by children over and over again
To be fair, in ATLA you are completely useless unless you are under 16 years old or over 60.

>>88022652
Nice idea, anon.
They had to make him pathetic since it's a kid's show ("Crime does not pay!"), but it would've been much more interesting if he just accepted his fate with dignity. Ah well.

>>88023757
>Mako's sacrifice
god that was such a cop-out, would've been one of the best moments of the entire series if they hadn't wussed out and had Bolin conveniently save him

>>88023956
They couldn't kill him and at the same time hook up his ex-gfs.

>>88023757
Kuvira's motif is such a great part of the soundtrack

>>88023956
Yeah, killing Mako would have made the finale carry much more weight. We knew Hiroshi was dead the moment we saw him.

>>88022737
I think she would have offed him. I remember watching the director's commentary and Bryke said that they couldn't kill him off because they couldn't justify a "good guy" killing off a villain.

but this was years ago so I might be misremembering it

>>88022652
>then after some more convincing from Zuko

Zuko was all gung-ho for killing him as long as it got Katara to like him.

>>88023238
>>88023551
>>88023716

Azula is not a villain.

>>88023670
>>88023722

Yes. As long as her resolve is strong she would win. Hell I think she should be the one to kill him and finally get the happy ending she deserves.

IGNORE SCRAPPER POSTS
DO NOT REPLY TO SCRAPPER POSTS

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>>88024201
Stop being a pussy Scrapper. Put on your trip or accept your ban like a man.

Your next line is, "I'm not Scrapper".

>>88024229
>>88024235

Hey guys, I'm not Scrapper but I just happen to disagree with your opinion about Azula being a villain.

>>88024029
It would have just been cheap drama. If someone had to die it should have been in an earlier episode so it could have a proper fallout and serve to motivate the characters further.

Same if Sokka had died in Sozin's Comet like plenty of edgelords claim he should have, in the end Aang saves the day, Sokka gets a short funeral and maybe a speech about his bravery but everyone still moves on, world peace is achieved and Aang makes out with his sister.

>>88021965
I assumed he was forced to retire in disgrace.

>>88021965
The guy wasn't a general or anything outstanding in ranking. He was given the leftover buttmonkey mission of killing of the last waterbenders in the Southern Water Tribe. When he killed Kya, there wasn't any waterbenders in the tribe for like fifty years (excluding Katara).

>>88021965
>retiring from the army
>not fighting until the day you die
>expecting monetary compensation

>>88022029
That's a funny way of spelling The Great Divide.

>>88022370

She was a bitch throughout most of the series, Anon.

>>88023617
>>88024201
HERE COMES THE ARM

>>88021965
>How does a high-ranking commander
Is he really? All he ever did was raid an already weak Water Nation. Fuck, he had to do the grunt work himself.

>>88021965
Because this is the same series that made the mc gay for no reason at the end. Writing is not thier strong suit.

>>88022803
>late Hundred Years' War-era Fire Nation
>feudal
The Fire Nation would have never been able to conquer over half of the world if they had not started off by abolishing feudalism and establishing a strong central government.

>>88021965
What makes you think he was a high-ranking commander? We don't know what his position within the Southern Raiders was, just that he was the only member of the Southern Raiders left, he could have been a rank-and-file soldier.

>>88021965
He got what he deserved for killing her mum.

>>88021965
>high-ranking commander
They never said he was high ranking.

>>88023778
The extenuating circumstances of her having double her normal power and she still got fucking rekt.

>b-but she was having a mental breakdown

Didn't stop Zuko kicking her ass either. She was losing to ZUKO. You know what Zuko's win record was Scrapper? Pretty low.

>>88023956
Wouldn't Mako being killed also have been a cop-out :^)

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>>88027474
>having double her normal power

I think it was more than that, they always say that it gives the power of a hundred suns.

>>88023901
Or more specifically, their future is with keeping their heads down-there sure is a Dai Li in Korra's day.

>>88022652
I mean why would Katara not kill the man if he says he isn't sorry he killed her mother.

Even patriots have regrets, you could do some shell shock sort of thing, but the point is to make the man human and the guy you're presenting is just the kind of Fire Nation warrior Katara WANTED her mother's killer to be.

>>88023778
>Scrapper detected
>inb4 "I'm not Scrapper but you have to respect that he stands by what he believes"

You are always good for a laugh, scrappy-doo.

>>88024235
>>88024253
>Your next line is, "I'm not Scrapper"
>Hey guys, I'm not Scrapper

are you even trying anymore Scrap?

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>>88028327
>>88028451
Stop responding to him

>>88023355
I think Zhao's the type of man who would go around smugly boasting about his demotion and everyone would be too scared/polite to correct him.

>>88026277
I mean they had nobility, its mentioned in the story, but yes their powers were probably severely reduced under the royal line. The Fire Nation was probably a bit like a post-feudal european design, I'd guess. where your family and bloodline are still important and got you jobs and positions but merit and use to the government were also paramount.

>>88028040
Flowery wording. A hundred suns sounds cooler than double normal power

>>88028806
Looks at least 4 times stronger

>>88021965
That's a pretty shit reason to hate the whole episode though.

I hate it on the grounds that Katara's moral compass always seems to have a magnet attached to it.

>>88023727
Yeah, they make him as much of a shit person as possible so Katara can look good for not killing him.