Justice League

Like they've RAPED MY ENTIRE CHILDHOOD, OHMYGOD SNYDER HOW CAN YOU DO THAT TO MEEE!!!!!!

>>87978910

He is used to playing others as both Wayne and a detective. In a lot of stories, including the opening to Batman Rebirth for a recent example, he isn't opposed to disguises.

In the case of the DCEU, saving the earth means he has to play recruiter and backer of the Justice League. As it should be. I like it better when he eventually gets kicked out of his own team for having kill-files. It's fun.

I'm more interested in why Diana is sticking so close to him. She doesn't have to be sat in the Batcave for him to build the JL. That is an incredible amount of trust from Bruce.

>>87978961

Snyder is probably going with the mandatory romance subplot.

>>87979001

I sort of hope so. I grew up with the DCAU, so it feels natural, and there were vibes in BvS. Clark has Lois, Trevor is long dead, and Selina will be middle aged, so it's unlikely we'll get the usual couples.

File: 1272811848395.png (68KB, 212x198px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 212x198px

>>87978910
>forcing yourself to hate good movies

>>87978910
Like it's accurate to the comics.
He acts like a brooding loner, but Batman has a massive number of colleagues he works with regularly.

>>87978910
Sounds about right.
Batman is the social, personable leader, Wonder Woman is jaded and has abandoned humanity, Deadshot is a charming hero, and Superman is a sad reluctant loner.

Just like muh comics.

>>87979073
this

>>87979075
>not muh

>>87979112
>muh movies
>muh kino
>muh memes

>>87979075
Superman hasn't been reluctant in anyway. He actively wanted to help people his entire life he only restatsined himself out of fear of doing more harm then good.
And being a sadish loner Is indeed faithful to varying degrees to multiple versions of his origins.

>>87978910
>can't keep secret identity in BvS
>reveal hislef infront of literally everyone in JL
This Bruce is retarded. How did he survived all these years?

>>87979075
>Batman is the social, personable leader
Bruce has always been social & personal, Batman isn't but Batman is a solid leader, they just let the separation be more vague so he can gain his new allies trust.

>>87979075
>Wonder Woman is jaded and has abandoned humanity
She has given up and returned to Paradise Island in several different incarnations.
The Dark Knight Returns universe being one of them.

>>87979151
Bruce is not even real person.
Also
>they just let the separation be more vague so he can gain his new allies trust
Well, that's the only choice they have in this shitty universe where Batman is insane mass murderer.

>>87979151
personable are personal are two different words but I expect that from dceuufags.

>>87979171
Killing like 2-5 people indirectly or unientionally isn't mass murder.

>>87979174
Auto correct is a thing we can't always notice.

>>87979200
much like if a movie is good or not.

>>87978910
WB board: "MAKE HIM LIKE TONY STARK. IT MAKES MONEY"

>>87979166
>in several different incarnations.
Not in the single good one, tho

>>87979189
>literally shoots missle in the car full of people
>indirectly
Also, he killed at least 10-15 people. I'd call this slaughter. And he probably murdered few people in Lex's lab for kryptonite.

>>87979227
Yes and that origin wouldn't work in a realistic paranoid shit hole world with the DC characters portrayed as believable flawed relatable people instead of perfect Mary Sues.
Even a goddess can't maintain hope of acomplishing jack shit in the face of billions of people determined to destroy themselves.

>>87979243
Didn't kill anyone in the warehouse.
The guy grabbing after his own grenade doesn't count.
Only ran over 1 guy in the car chase when he broke through a wall and couldn't have seen the guy before hand.
No evidence the shooting of the back of one of the cars hurt anyone.
Only killed a handful indirectly in prison.

>>87979269
>DC characters
>perfect Mary Sues
That's the most casual thing I've ever heard on /co/

>>87978910
I don't see the problem, the crazy loner Batman is pretty much a meme.
The only times he act that way in the comics is when a Robin dies so other people can tell him to calm down.

>>87979297
Don't you know? DC heroes are gods among men while Marvel has men with problems and godlike power.

>>87979297
Superman in the Reeves films pulled time travel out of ass to avoid failing or letting the story have any meaningful consequences, that is very fucking much Mary Sueism.

>>87979306
I don't even know are you serious or not, because /co/ is filled by casuals nowdays
>>87979319
>Superman in the Reeves films....
So?

>>87979345
>So?
That is what we have to stand in the shadow of so it's better to not try and do the same shit over again. It's better to give us a Superman who actually has to struggle and endure hardship so the viewer has something to actually fucking invest himself in.

>>87979364
>implying whiny and angry edgelord is the only way to show not Mary Sue Supes
You don't know shit abou Superman, right?

>>87979296
Did you miss the people shooting at him when he was in the batwing and he just got to the warehouse?
He shot them up and they all exploded.

>>87978910
I'm guessing JL will have more Batman than the rest of the team.

>>87979269
Why Snyderfags hate comic books so much? Go back to /tv/.

>>87979364
Why not make it like the comics, instead of the shit that everybody hates them?

Superman died and audiences didn't fucking cared.

>>87978910
maybe if he was less social he could keep his fucking marriage together

>>87978910
Well, Batman in the comics has the biggest family.

>>87979023
>I sort of hope so. I grew up with the DCAU, so it feels natural

>>>/thrash/

>>87979634
Their guns exploded, disarming them. They continued to fight afterward.

>>87979634
Have you ever played the Arkham series? It was basically that.

>>87978910

I dont see a problem with Batman being social per se

But the most thrilling versions of Batman is him as a loner

Also loved Batman in that JL/JLU (?) episode where they are supposed to surrender to the government or something, the entire JL team kinda decides its right thing to do as a team to surrender and asks Batman to come with them. But Batman practically tells them to fuck off and says he was never part of the team and only just obliged their requests to help them

>>87979023
>nd Selina will be middle aged

Diana is centuries old you tard.

>>87979189
I've wondered that if the deaths were more indirect, like the rockets bouncing off the Batmobile in dark knight returns, would people have complained as much? This would've been the perfect time to copy scenes from the comic.

>>87983669
And Bruce is middle aged
Why couldn't Bruce and Selina be a middle aged couple?

Batman's a gloomy asshole. Nobody ever said he's not social.

>billionaire playboy
>half a dozen sidekicks
>multiple super friends from etrigan to green arrow
>founded Batman Inc and the Outsiders and the League

>>87979269
>muh realism
/r9k/ isn't the real world.

>>87979319
>Superman in the Reeves films
This may shock you to learn but there's more Superman than the Reeves films that isn't Snyder. It's possible to have a Superman that's imperfect and yet isn't a constant failure that can only succeed by dying.

You casual.

>>87979189
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgkQS7q6sT0

>>87983788
Selina would by comic standards be retired or nnot pulling grand schemes anything anymore.
Plus i doubt she'll put up with his shit .
olus shes not even in the batman movies and im kind of tired of Catwoman. Shes only there to wet his dick. And after 20 years im pretty sure its wet enough

>>87984008
He saved 7-8 billion people twice in Mos, he didn't fail at jack shit.

>>87983547
>Also loved Batman in that JL/JLU (?) episode where they are supposed to surrender to the government or something, the entire JL team kinda decides its right thing to do as a team to surrender and asks Batman to come with them. But Batman practically tells them to fuck off and says he was never part of the team and only just obliged their requests to help them

Found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Owu1d_73CDA

>>87978910
That Batfags need to die.

>>87983547
>>87984195
Contrasted with Batman convincing Superman that teamwork is good in The Batman by showing him how much better he is with Robin. I thought that was interesting and just as legitimate.

>>87984155
>muh seven billion
Yeah from the threat he drew to earth in the first place.
>inb4 muh murderer following me home.

>>87984526
He saved billions apart from that as well, as we can see from the articles in Wally's apartment.

Stopping an earthquake for one, and a life-ending supervirus as well. They could have made it more apparent but apparently having it in the background is extremely blatant if the "Jesus symbolism" was. It was up for the same amount of time (perhaps longer) as the Jesus painting in the background of the church scene in Man of Steel.

I can't really call this Bruce a detective when he literally conned Waller into giving all the info she had on the JL. Also it's kind of jarring seeing Bruce first meet these people out of costume. Why? Because he's supposed to be a paranoid fucker.

>>87984615
>muh blink and you miss it background crap
>jesus stuff was totally subtle gaiz!
Do the sun god one next. I like that one.

>>87984615
show dont tell, man.

>>87984630
Isn't part of being a detective getting information from other people? I mean, just asking around with "have you seen this person" is a typical way of investigating. It's not all forensics and abductive reasoning.

Bruce recruiting people as Bruce has a different effect than as Batman. He revealed himself to Flash to show that he is trustworthy but has yet to reveal himself to Aquaman because there were lots of people present. I'd like to see how this ends up.

>>87984657
So which is it? You can't hold both thoughts at once. Either the Jesus symbolism was subtle "blink and you miss it" background stuff or Wally's apartment newspapers were just as apparent. Choose one.

File: tumblr_n8a2l9zE4d1se00emo1_400.jpg (67KB, 353x334px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 353x334px

>>87979064

>>87984745
I suppose but there are dozen other ways you could write it in which Bruce learns about these metas, identities, and how he should meet them that are far more interesting. He literally just grabbed folders about everyone from someone who did far more work than he did. Which while we're on the subject, I'm a bit annoyed Waller just has the dirt on EVERYONE. Knowing Bruce's identity is in character, but her having extensive knowledge on Barry and co is a bit much. It's about as lazy as the hard drive in BvS

>>87984685
right, and they had a whole montage also showing his good deeds, on top of having articles show us he did things in the past

>>87979174
>personable are persona
kek u fucking retard

>>87984526
>Yeah from the threat he drew to earth in the first place.
But that is just as true in the comics. In the comics Lex probably wouldnt have been a bad guy if Superman never landed. Zod would never attack earth in the comics if Superman never existed. Same with Brainiac, Lobo, Parasite, Metallo, and many more.


Same argument could be made for Batman and a lot of his rogues.
So blame Siegel and Shuster

>>87986097
First off, depends on the version. Plenty of versions of Parasite and Brianiac exist irrespective of Clark.
Second, when the DCEU actually introduces a threat that isn't a result of Superman, then that argument will hold water.
Third, they literally did an episode of TAS that discussed how bullshit that defense was as applied to Batman. One of the most underrated ones, actually.
Fourth, as is pointed out all the time, this is an elseworlds, so decide if you want to go "it's just like the comics" or not. Having it both ways? Not gonna fly.

>>87986097
>Lex
>not being a corrupt evil cunt
>Lobo
>Superman vilain

You are fucking patethic, go read comics Snyderfag.

>>87984783
How about I choose the jesus stuff being all over the place across two movies and the "Superman actually doing good and not just causing problems" stuff being background that didn't get given its due diligence because "muh realism".

Y'know. Like we actually got.

Because there was more jesus crap than just the scene in the church, even if you don't want to accept that there was..

>>87984745
>Isn't part of being a detective getting information from other people?
Unless you don't want it because then your shitty conflict will end before it begins, yes.

>>87986165
>Second, when the DCEU actually introduces a threat that isn't a result of Superman, then that argument will hold water.

Why? Thats retarded and moving goal posts. It still holds water.


>Third, they literally did an episode of TAS that discussed how bullshit that defense was as applied to Batman. One of the most underrated ones, actually.

Oh, so you dont read comics, you just watch the animated stuff, okay.


>Fourth, as is pointed out all the time, this is an elseworlds, so decide if you want to go "it's just like the comics" or not. Having it both ways? Not gonna fly.

Its an adaptation you moron, which means parts of it will echo the comics, and parts will be different. You are autistic if you think it has to be one or the other. Also by the very definition of an Elseworld, parts will be similar to the core material, and parts will be different. You absolute moron.
>>87986195
>Lex
People can be assholes and not supervillians. If you go through comic alt universes, like Red Son or good Lex in CoIE, versions of Lex that don't exist alongside a good Superman dont turn out super-villains. Assholes, sure, but not villains.


>Lobo
All I said was that he wouldnt come to earth because of Superman, not that he was one of his main villains you mong.

File: SupermanAngel.jpg (738KB, 1680x1680px) Image search: [Google]

738KB, 1680x1680px

>>87986200
>How about I choose the jesus stuff being all over the place across two movies

MoS had literally one jesus analogy, and Superman has been compared to various biblical figures since his fucking creation (pic related, that old comic over). I mean he is literally based on Moses and the golem of prague.

File: SupermanSavior.jpg (2MB, 1919x2323px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1919x2323px

>>87986200
>Superman actually doing good and not just causing problems

There was a whole montage illustrating that, ON TOP of pic related, AND all the news pundits that said it again. How many more times do you need it thrown in your face?

>>87978910
Judging by the brave and the bold, the outsiders, and the bat family batman is the most social character in the league. Read comics faggot

>>87986494
>MoS had literally one jesus analogy,
it had three.

>>87979207
Are you implying iron man makes more money than Fucking batman?

>>87986588
where? All I count is the one with him standing in front of the church stained glass window. And that was a specific reference to that particular jesus story.

>>87986649
Before that is the "Wandering in the wilderness segment". Yes, I know Birthright also did it, but the fact that Clark was 33 when he puts on the cape (same age as Christ) indicates that this was the parallel they were trying to draw.
There's also the t-posing after he gets sucked out of Zod's ship.
Arguably you can also say the "Maybe" scene is another parallel to the single bit in the bible where we get a child Jesus doing his thing in the temple and his adoptive father questioning it.

And that's before you get to the metatextual fact that WB literally told churches to see the movie because Superman was like Jesus.

You might not *count* stuff but that doesn't mean it stops existing.

>>87986530
If you have to pause the playback of the movie to prove something happened, it didn't get enough focus.

>>87986649
The part where he stretches out his hands to feel the sun's energy (but apparently Iron Man stretching out his hands in a similar fashion after his missiles are tested is just a coincidence). And when he dies parallels a Jesus image.

Superman saving people takes up at least 1000x more screentime than Superman with Jesus symbolism, yet people meme that Jesus symbolism was all over the place and yet Superman didn't save anyone. It's retarded.

>>87986764
I didn't have to pause it catch it, and like I said, there was a whole montage of him saving people, AND pundits talking about it.

>>87986764
It got enough focus, you're just retarded and turned off your brain instead of paying attention to important scenes. This leads to idiots thinking that there are plot holes when there weren't.

>>87986791
Iron Man didn't die on Good Friday.

>>87986738
Those are really stretching it, especially since you say one of them is obviously a Birthright reference. I didnt event notice those desu, which means they werent too in the audience face.

>>87986819
>muh important scenes
Literally yesterday you fags were saying every scene is important because kino.

>>87986885
Yeah every scene was important. Sorry they don't give you time to turn off your brain. That's a great movie. Who needs filler?

>>87986881
I don't think it's obviously a birthright reference because the conclusions they drew were completely different.

>I didn't notice so it doesn't count
>But if you don't agree with me it's because you didn't watch the movie.
You clowns are more amusing than the movie could ever have been.

>>87986863
>boo hoo, how dare they try release their movie in such a fashion as to make a popular parallel that has existed in comics since forever

>>87986924
>But if you don't agree with me it's because you didn't watch the movie.

Where did I ever say that? And I didnt say they dont count, but you are the first one to bring them up. All I said is they werent too in your face, compared to the references in BvS. And regardless, its not even bad they make such parallels. Part of the point is that Superman parallels jesus but strictly isn't a messiah figure.

>>87986863
Neither did Superman in Man of Steel. What would your excuse back then be?

Then there's Iron Man's arc reactor being a parallel to Jesus's Sacred Heart. See how easy it is to meme?

>>87986863
>>87986588
>>87986738

What about how Captain America "died" for our sins but then came back and saved us. And Captain America was betrayed by Iron Man (Judas). And Captain America protects supposed sinners (Bucky) just like Jesus.


Or how Vision is a virgin birth, and is partially jarvis and partially the infinity jem (literally the father, son and holy ghost).
Man those Russos sure are hacks.

>>87986987
>What would your excuse back then be?
That Man of Steel was a mediocre movie but if they didn't double down it might've been a continuity worth salvaging.


>Then there's Iron Man's arc reactor being a parallel to Jesus's Sacred Heart. See how easy it is to meme?
Oh no, I absolutely agree with that. That's why I think Snyder is ridiculously overrated and his movies aren't really deep at all. Just moderately pretty. And his fans are constantly grasping at straws to prove how patrician they are.
If you bitter children could just let these be the dumb blockbusters they are instead of constantly defending them as high art we wouldn't be having this conversation.

File: BvSZodDoomsday.jpg (86KB, 718x959px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 718x959px

>>87987076
First off I really enjoy seeing Superman grow. Him growing into the ultimate hero is rarely explored, and is some of the best parts of Birthright and Secret Identity. I like that through MoS and BvS, Superman's arc has followed the heroes journey almost to a t. To the point where the metaphorical death and rebirth becomes literal. One of the key elements of the heroes journey is that at the end the hero brings back the "boon" or "elixir" making the world a better place. I believe that exactly this will happen, that the plan from the beginning, at least once they started conceptualizing or entertaining the idea of a larger shared universe, was to have Superman bring the world, one that intentionally tries to reflect our own, to a better place, one that more reflects a more classic heroic setting.

1/6

File: DarkKnightBvS.jpg (249KB, 600x2625px) Image search: [Google]

249KB, 600x2625px

>>87987076

For example, Superman is put in a no win situation by Zod in MoS. Zod tells Superman he is going to have to kill him or else people die. Flat out forcing Superman to choose between humans and kryptonians. Superman killed Zod of course, mirroring a moment from Byrne's Man of Steel run, but not without it coming back to haunt him in the form of Doomsday. In BvS Superman is presented with yet another ultimatum, kill Batman or Martha dies. This time Superman chooses the third way, learning from the first time with Zod, and instead decides to be honest with Batman and ask him for help. They even illustrate this arc within Superman further by having him first just trounce Batman's Batmobile and order him to stop (since with Zod all that worked was overpowering him). That doesn't work, so next time he sees Batman he tries to talk to him, but suffers for making the mistake of once again just using force. But he again makes the mistake of fighting back, and again pays for it. But once he finally stops trying to fight and just asks for help "to save Martha" he starts winning Batman over. And its not until Lois, Superman's loving anchor, is even more honest, revealing Martha to be his mother, does Batman finally help him. Superman, then, ultimately has to sacrifice himself because of the mistake he made in MoS. This does another thing I really adore about the movies, it takes iconic parts from the comics and synthesizes them into one narrative without making them just empty shoutouts, it instead uses these moments to add to the narrative and themes. And its not just moments like what I mentioned above from Byrne.

2/6

File: BruceImageryBvS.jpg (615KB, 1600x665px) Image search: [Google]

615KB, 1600x665px

>>87987076
One of the best examples of such integration of the comics is how it uses key scenes from Dark Knight Returns (even doing a 1:1 remake of the death scene) as way to deconstruct it. I know for a lot of people deconstruction is a trigger word, so if you want you can instead say an inversion. While DKR had Batman very much in the right, BVS puts Batman on the wrong side. BvS turns Batman into the reactionary stooge that upholds the status quo, which was Superman's role in the comic. They also have the same dead Robin plot point, but this Batman never gets a new one. Batman fights Superman, but this time he goes in with the purpose of killing Superman instead of faking his own death. When Superman is nuked, it is from America instead of the commies, and he willing takes a blast to defeat a monster instead of trying to defend the earth. He also rejuvenates from the sun in space instead of sucking solar energy from Earth (as he does in the comic). And last but not least, in BvS Superman dies with a hint of him coming back instead of Batman. This kind of engagement with the past and with the stories that came before, the homages and commentaries on past comics, that is one of the aspects that makes the long 75+ years of Batman and Superman so fantastic to me, and BvS carries on in that tradition.

3/6

File: BvSFearHope.jpg (323KB, 1532x366px) Image search: [Google]

323KB, 1532x366px

>>87987076
I'm sure you're all sick of reading this, but now that I've typed so much I figure I'll continue with a few other bits I enjoy. To go back to Superman redeeming Batman, there is an intended meta element to it too I feel. Batman is an old character in BvS, and he is an old character in the movies. He has had many more movies than Superman has, and it all these movies (except for the Adam West one and the black and white serials) has has killed people. And we have been fine with this. In the movies, we the public and our inherent jadedness have turned Batman into a killer, much in the same way the universe Superman enters in BvS has turned Batman into a killer. Its not until he shares a screen with Superman does the public question why he kills and start asking for the no kill code back. And at the end of the movie he gets it back, after Superman sacrifices himself and proves to Batman, and the world, that he is indeed just a force of a good, or as Batman says it "men can still be good". Its illustrated when Batman corners Lex in his prison cell and does't brand him (instead opting for more classic Batman scare tactics). Even in the comics Batman started out killing, but once he became more integrated into the larger superhero universe they started telling stories where had a no kill rule. And this brings me to, you guessed it (sorry if my pattern is getting predictable) another thing I loved about these movies. They find ways to look at the big picture of a character, like Batman, see how the character has changed over its entire history, and make it part of the story.

4/6

File: a768606748d81989a349f01122eaaf837cbedb7e.jpg (215KB, 750x875px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 750x875px

>>87987114
>>87987125
>posting shitty debunked pasta again.

Kill yourself, autist.

File: BvSGrid.jpg (1MB, 3600x1495px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 3600x1495px

>>87987076
In fact they do the same thing with Lex Luthor. Lex always started off having a full head of hair and being a crazy mad scientist. like he was in BvS There are examples of this throughout the golden age, and a few times in the silver age. Its also re-tread by Birthright and Gene Hackman in the Reeves movies. We see the beginning of Lex's passionate hate for Superman, to the point where he lets it derail his speech at the library fund raiser. We also get to the classic Lex move of him dominating and controlling every conversation he is in. And those he can't control he gets rid of. By the end of the movie we see Lex much more stone faced and cold (sans the scene chewing bell speech, though I don't mean that in a bad way) and finally with a shaved head. A transition into the modern age Lex who keeps a more precise and calculated public persona.

I don't have much to say about this last point, other than I thought it was neat that Wonder Woman regains faith in humanity parallel to Batman, and humanity, (re)gaining faith in Superman, and by extension the superhero.

5/6

>>87987076
>That's why I think Snyder is ridiculously overrated and his movies aren't really deep at all.
What gives a movie depth for you?

File: BatmanForeverBvS.jpg (127KB, 1168x1063px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 1168x1063px

>>87987076

I guess really I love that the movie gives me so much to chew on, and that every time I watch it I see a new little thing. Like last time I saw it, I noticed that after Batman's nightmare about dictator Superman, his worst fear about what Superman can become, its followed by Superman looking at the photos of Batman's dead victims in jail. Which is Superman's worst fear about how bad Batman can become. Or how the movie gets progressively more saturated with color as it goes on, the world literally becoming a more colorful and bright place. Or how the bat-creature in Bruce's dream is a homage/twist to a deleted scene from Val Kilmer Batman. I love all these layers it intertwines almost effortlessly.

6/6

>>87987114
>>87987125
>>87987136
>>87987155
Yes, this was what I was talking about.
And the best thing is this is the SHORT version. The full one goes on for like 12 posts.

>>87987173
what part of it is debunked?

>>87987219
not a single jesus reference or religious symbolism, just depth that is right there in the movie :^)

>>87987208
>What gives a movie depth for you?
Emotional context. Character development and agency beyond the presumed. Lots of stuff.
But most importantly?> It's gotta be self contained rather than a relying on referential symbolism. Anyone can go "remember Excalibur? That was great, right?" Hell, I did that for five years; that's why it grates so much. Being able to cite what media you've consumed isn't depth, it's just self congratulatory pretension.

File: 1282532271306.jpg (46KB, 400x286px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 400x286px

>>87987212
I like you, anon.

>>87987298
well if you read the above copypasta, you can see that the allusions are there to re-enforce the character development and agency thats already there. Even without them, there are whole character arcs for Superman and Batman.

>>87987114
>>87987125
>>87987136
>>87987155
>>87987197
>>87987212
lol like fucking clockwork.

>>87978910
Indifferent as I'm not going to see it anyway. I really do not understand how you can fuck up so badly in building an entire universe. Snyder also seems to have a hateboner for secret identities.

>>87987231
Just look at ay thread that you reposted this pasta:

https://desuarchive.org/co/search/image/Pxh3WcRwWwKysuslNwKUuw/

All there.

>>87987367
>snyderman
>agency

File: laugh2.png (216KB, 393x391px) Image search: [Google]

216KB, 393x391px

>>87987250
>entry-level directing and references
>"depth"

>>87987298
>For example, Superman is put in a no win situation by Zod in MoS. Zod tells Superman he is going to have to kill him or else people die. Flat out forcing Superman to choose between humans and kryptonians. Superman killed Zod of course... but not without it coming back to haunt him in the form of Doomsday. In BvS Superman is presented with yet another ultimatum, kill Batman or Martha dies. This time Superman chooses the third way, learning from the first time with Zod, and instead decides to be honest with Batman and ask him for help. They even illustrate this arc within Superman further by having him first just trounce Batman's Batmobile and order him to stop (since with Zod all that worked was overpowering him). That doesn't work, so next time he sees Batman he tries to talk to him, but suffers for making the mistake of once again just using force. But he again makes the mistake of fighting back, and again pays for it. But once he finally stops trying to fight and just asks for help "to save Martha" he starts winning Batman over. And its not until Lois, Superman's loving anchor, is even more honest, revealing Martha to be his mother, does Batman finally help him. Superman ultimately has to sacrifice himself because of the mistake he made in MoS.


There, an example of a character arc in the movie that doesnt require any allegory or symbolism.

>>87987411

see
>>87987428
>>87987422
if you actually read the copy pasta, none of the depth has shit to do with with the references, but rather how the characters grow.

>>87987411
>I don't know what the argument is, but it sure is there!

holy kek, im not gunna dig through that you idiot

>>87987422
see

>>87987428

File: laugh.jpg (29KB, 450x450px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 450x450px

>>87987448
>dceu characters
>growing

>>87987448
>but rather how the characters grow.
They don't.

>>87987367
You say reinforce, I say reliance.
If you need to give someone a copy of Plato's Republic before they can appreciate Man of Steel that doesn't make Man of Steel good;' it (maybe) makes Plato's Republic good.

If you have to remove scenes that would be wothwhile in order to make a refernece to The Heat, maybe you shouldn't be making a goddamn reference to The Heat in the first place.

I dislike these movies for the same reason I dislike Dubliners and Family Guy. Be your own thing.

>>87987298
But those things just scratch the surface of what a good story is supposed to be. Depth is supposed to go beyond that.

When someone says Snyder movies have depth, many confuse that for mere symbolism. Sure symbolism is nifty when done right, but that's not what depth is. Depth is saying something other than the mere story, and I think his movies do that. I can clarify if you're willing to listen.

>Emotional context. Character development and agency beyond the presumed.

Don't get mad but I think the movies have that.

>It's gotta be self contained rather than a relying on referential symbolism.
The movies are self-contained. The symbols aren't necessary to enjoy them but can also bolster the meaning of the movie by drawing parallels. It could be a part of the depth if that parallel leads to a lesson or something else.

>>87987484
>>87987482
see


>>87987428


Superman grows right there

>>87979073
Batman being the leader and mouthpiece of the Justice League is not accurate to the comics, kiddo.

I don't think he's a social butterfly in the trailer, you can tell that he's still a little awkward and he was a little taken aback when Barry said that he was in.

>>87987509
>Superman is put in a no win situation
He is not. He could visit Jor-El instead of fucking useless priest and deal with Zod by father's advices. He just stupid. And his stupidity caused thousands of deaths.

>>87987488
>If you need to give someone a copy of Plato's Republic before they can appreciate Man of Steel that doesn't make Man of Steel good;' it (maybe) makes Plato's Republic good.

No one is saying you need to understand Plato's republic for Man of Steel except you.


Again, if you actually read the copy + pasta none of the character growth or arcs require to allusions to understand. But just like how Clockwork Orange or Once Upon A Time In The West uses references/allusions, they can serve to give the story context and help the internal arcs stretch further culturally.

>>87987428
>A scenario only made possible by bad writing and contrivances gets compounded by another scenario and a conflict only made possible by bad writing and contrivances. This is character development, I promise. Granted, Superman didn't actually learn his lesson until it was appropriate and absolutely necessary for the mandatory team up against a bigger threat that was obvious as soon as the trailers dropped to happen, but let's just ignore that and say it's smart. Because sure, the character is retreading the same beats over and over again and making those same mistakes, but that's a kind of growth, right? Of course it is, because otherwise we might have to admit this movie isn't the greatest thing ever.

>>87987551
Bruce shouldn't be fucking awkward. He is brilliant actor. But neither he should reveal himself infront of everyone he meets.

>>87987556
The no-win situation is when Zod is about to kill the family and tells clark he has to kill him or he will kill everyone on earth you absolute retard. Way after both Jor-El and the priest have left the movie.

>>87987556
How does he know his dad wasn't lying and Zod was actually the good guy? That's a tough situation.

You're getting information out of universe and assuming in-universe people have it.

>>87987584
How is the scenario made possible by bad writing and contrivance? Zod's character is completely consistent through the movie, his devotion to his genetic programming and hence his species. He takes it to its logical extreme at the end by saying he will kill all humans on earth if Superman doesnt kill him first.

>>87987604
But it's all Clark's fault, just as I said, you mong.

>>87987649
How is it Clark's fault?

>>87987625
>AI
>telling truth about everything but Zod
Yeah, sounds right

>>87987670
He bringed kryptonians on Earth and haven't stop them before landing.

File: 0c2.gif (459KB, 320x180px) Image search: [Google]

459KB, 320x180px

I don't care anymore

>>87987428
Except before you even get into analysis it hinges on the extreme illogical and cognitive dissonance of the characters.

>I want to kill this guy, but not so badly that I'll try and track him down or use his family as bait, because deep down I'm actually nice and more importantly if I acknowledge he's got relationships I could exploit for my professed goal it would take the wind out of my sails and we'd have no beef.
vs
>I think this guy is a dangerous, violent psychotic, and the last time I met someone like this I had to kill them to get them to stop, but if I see him I'm just going to issue threats and then leave instead of being decisive and ending the threat I perceive there or even just putting him in jail as I should be able to given the fact that, unlike the last time, I have that option. I'm just going to let him stew because that certainty won't bite me in the ass.


Then again to be fair the latter was the guy that, last movie, goes
>I care so much about preserving the status quo that I'm going to hide my gifts to the point of letting my father literally die, but activating a piece of unknown technology? That's cool . Nothing could possibly go wrong there, and I want to move the plot forward.

>>87987682
How would he know? The AI could have been programmed by a liar. You just assume Clark is as naive as you. It makes sense to have doubts in this situation.

Plus the AI said Krypton exploded and he's the last Kryptonian and then Zod shows up. How is that not sketchy?

>>87987631
Why not put him in the phantom zone with the others?

>>87987706
they came because of their genetic programing demanding they get the birthing Matrix, it was due to the hubris of Krypton. If anything, MoS gives more reason for Zod to come than the comics ever do.

>>87978910
>dat trailer

It couldn't be more obvious that they're aping off of the MCU with this shite.

>>87987631
He already knew that was Zod's goal.
Before the World Engine went off and he gets buried in skulls (because Zod is programmed to be the perfect soldier but can't use subterfuge)
Before Zod even landed. and he's talking to ghost dad. Space Ghost Dad, I mean.

>>87987762
>as naive as you
Well, I'd listen fucking AI even if it's telling lies. If I were Superman I'd figured it out. It's much more useful than fucking priest anyway. Also, he IS naive AND stupid, because he surrendered to Zod in the first place.

>>87987740
What is your first point even making? Why would Superman ever threaten Batman's family or track it down?
And your second point is retarded, it wasnt about protecting the status quo, it was because he (and Pa Kent) didnt want the government to come after him and his family. Thats why when he wondering around by himself he is using his powers all the time, like to help the people in the oil rig. Because there is much less risk of him being connected to his family or the government tracking him.

>>87987801
Everything else they've done has failed, so why not try something that's been proven to be successful?

>>87987770
This is one scene I don't defend in Man of Steel and I think people should stop defending it. I love Snyder movies to death and think BvS is a 10/10 masterpiece but I can admit MoS had flaws and this was one of them.

It stems from Snyder thinking in an experiential way: he thinks that Superman needs a physical experience to know that killing is wrong rather than an abstract reasoning process, which is what both Superman and Batman use to find out they shouldn't kill. This leads to the Zod scene when it didn't have to. Either Goyer or Snyder has said in an interview that they COULD have had Zod sent to the Phantom Zone but chose not to in order for Superman to get that lesson.

Sure, everything that happens is based on what the author wants, but I think this deviates too much from the character. Yeah, I know he kills Zod in other media too, but I still disagree with it.

>>87987770
He tried, but Zod escaped the big phantom zone sucking up bit. After that, there was no other way to get people into the phantom zone.

>>87987773
They found him only because he was too stupid and touched alien staff without knowing shit.

>>87987773
>they came because of their genetic programing demanding they get the birthing Matrix,
Codex. Not Birthing Matrix.
Which they didn't even know was on Earth until Clark unwittingly sent out a distress beacon.
That the Jor El AI doesn't actually tell him was sent out for some reason but let's ignore that because who cares it's kino.
Also putting the Codex into Clark was a mistake and I still don't get why Jor-El didn't just destroy it given that he was so against what it stood for.
Especially since it's apparently affected Clark so much that he's genetically predisposed to wearing a cape because his DNA tells him to.

Although if they actually made use of it and said that the Codex was the reason he's constantly lost and befuddled; due to having too many competing voices in his head, that would actually be pretty cool.

>>87987868
Superman is not above killing alien threats. He kills the giant sun alien in All Star Superman. He killed Darkseid (or tried to) in Final Crisis. He killed the anti-monitor (or tried to). He saw Zod as being a powerful/dangerous enough threat that he had to kill him. It had nothing to do with teaching him killing is wrong, he knows that generally killing is wrong, it had to do with him affirming Earth as his home.

>>87987914
I found that this movie tried to do too many things which is par for the course with DCEU movies. Superman killing someone is a concept that could be the basis of an entire movie. Just like his origin story, an Alien Invasion and an attempt to revive krypton. So they jammed this in at the end to try and give the movie more weight. Same as how they killed Superman at the end of BVS.

It's just too early to be doing this with Superman. Establish his morals and then challenge them.

>>87987858
>What is your first point even making? Why would Superman ever threaten Batman's family or track it down?
The first one is Batman. Maybe I should've said v instead of vs just for you.

>And your second point is retarded, it wasnt about protecting the status quo, it was because he (and Pa Kent) didnt want the government to come after him and his family.
Would this be the government that somehow didn't notice an honest to go rocket entering the atmosphere over the American heartland, or the government that never so much as blinked when Jonathan took in an artifact that could not have possibly come from earth to get studied, or the government that didn't so much as declare martial law after an alien warlord hijacked every possible broadcast wave and started issuing out ultimatums?

And it absolutely was about protecting the status quo. Because in Jonathan's own words, it'll "change everything" when people find out about Clark. I mean sure, aliens exist and nobody heads for the hills, but the thought is what counts.

>>87987982
They would have to give him more than 8 lines in total for his own movie, first.

>>87987902

but they still pursued him only because their genetic programming demand they do. If you blame Superman for Zod coming in the movie, you might as well do it for the comics to, because Zod has even less of an excuse to do so in the comics.


>>87987908
the Jor-El AI has no reason to tell Superman that information since he is still just a computer. And complaining that clark wears a cape is retarded, he does it in the comics without you having to sperg out over it and think its a retarded contrivance.

>>87987464
>I will copy and paste my arguments!

>but if you put a link from a previous thread where I posted it, you are cheating!

>>87987821
what are you even saying? Superman, at first, thought he could possibly make peace with Zod and his forces. But he finds out thats impossible. Then he finds a way to imprisoned the majority of them, but Zod doesn't get captured. Zod continues with his original goal of creating a new home for krypton at the cost of all other life. Superman realizes he has to kill him to get him to stop.


What is the problem.

>>87988004
>And complaining that Clark wears a cape is retarded, he does it in the comics without you having to sperg out over it and think its a retarded contrivance.
This specifically is a reference to that scene during the denouement where you see a child Clark wearing a cape and running through a field. According to Snyder's Clark is wearing a cape there specifically because his genes are telling him to.

Which runs counter to the whole "Clark has free choice because he's not tied to his genetics like Zod" but who cares. It looks good.

>>87988004
You can blame comic Superman for Zod. But he saved Earth and humanity from dozens threats. Also I don't remember thousands deaths caused by Zod and his crew. DCEU Superman is the only reason this Earth suffers in these movies. They've made his curse to the planet.

>>87987990
>The first one is Batman. Maybe I should've said v instead of vs just for you.

Well it was pretty clear that Batman just thought Superman was an alien with no human parents/family to threaten.


>Would this be the government that somehow didn't notice an honest to go rocket entering the atmosphere over the American heartland, or the government that never so much as blinked when Jonathan took in an artifact that could not have possibly come from earth to get studied, or the government that didn't so much as declare martial law after an alien warlord hijacked every possible broadcast wave and started issuing out ultimatums?


Why didnt the government do any of that in the comics? Why doesnt the government do this in every sci-fi story? Fuck, this is the most whiny, nitpicking complaint ive seen. You are literally just saying the government didnt act how you want it to.
>And it absolutely was about protecting the status quo. Because in Jonathan's own words, it'll "change everything" when people find out about Clark. I mean sure, aliens exist and nobody heads for the hills, but the thought is what counts.


He said that because its true, but its not his motivation for protecting clark and sacrificing himself. Part of it changing everything would be the world/government coming after Clark and his family. Which is shown at the end of MoS with the drone trying to track him, and Superman has to ask the government to leave him alone (and they only complied because he saved the world, imagine if he revealed himself without saving the world).

>>87988004
>but they still pursued him only because their genetic programming demand they do. I
You have to know where someone is to effectively pursue them. If Clark's ship crashed and he died on impact with Earth, Zod would spend the remainder of his days flying in the opposite direction, Lex wouldn't go off the deep end, Doomsday wouldn't exist, and Darkseid would never be summoned to Earth.
Arguably Enchantress wouldn't have become a threat either, actually, because there'd be no argument to form the Suicide Squad.

Everything bad that's happened in these movies could be avoided if Superman died as a baby. But hey, we got a montage that said he did good things off camera. That all makes up for it. Best series ever!

>>87987982
>>87987995

What do you mean its too early to do it, the movie isnt about Superman killing someone. Its about him coming out to the world and confirming that earth is his home. Superman killing Zod isnt a whole big focus thing, why do you think that is somehow too much? It is a mistake he makes that comes back in BvS and leads to his own "death."
Basically you are saying you want a big serialized story instead of a movie trilogy. And they have that, its called comics.

>>87988052
>According to Snyder's Clark is wearing a cape there specifically because his genes are telling him to.
source

>>87988114
>Well it was pretty clear that Batman just thought Superman was an alien with no human parents/family to threaten.
>World's greatest tactian and detective
>Don't know shit about his enemy except powers and one weakness.
Fucking pathetic.

>>87988057
>I don't remember thousands deaths caused by Zod and his crew
They attacked Smallville? And were trying to level Metropolis? And their world engines were killing thousands and were trying to kill the entire planet?

How can you be THIS retarded?

>>87988119
But the exact same arguments could be made for all those characters in the comics (except I guess Enchantress, but in the DCEU she was on earth anyway and would have come out sooner or later).
In the comics Zod has even less reason to come to earth to pursue superman. In MoS Clark had no idea what activating the ship would do.

>>87988166
>big serialized story
It IS big serialized story, they just fucked up order of movies release and universe itself.

>>87988114
>Well it was pretty clear that Batman just thought Superman was an alien with no human parents/family to threaten.
Because a detective that actually researches his target is too silly to fathom.

>Why didn't the government do any of that in the comics?
Pre Crisis Superman predates NORAD.
Post Crisis Superman's ship has stealth.
Or sometimes they DO find out and we get shit like Flashpoint.
Either way in the latter two cases, Jonathan doesn't take alien technology to get studied because that's just inviting catastrophe.
>He said that because its true, but its not his motivation for protecting clark and sacrificing himself.
You know, this is literally the first time I've ever even seen this argument made, which makes it hard to find credence in it. But no, they made it pretty clear that it was a matter of religions and shit freaking out over them coming for the Kents. Which never actually happens.

And if hiding so that the Kents were safe is such a big deal then why do we end up with BvS, the central conflict of which is forced entirely because someone finds out about Martha? (But not the right person finding out, because then no conflict again).

Superman's secret identity is only nominally a secret in these movies.

>(and they only complied because he saved the world, imagine if he revealed himself without saving the world).
I do. I imagine that if Clark showed up BEFORE he was forced to by way of Zod he might've been able to craft his own narrative with the human race rather than constantly running damage control for the actions of the other member's of his race as we're seeing now. Seeing as how that's what usually happens in the comics you snyderfags don't read.

>>87988190
Tell me, how would have known? What reason does he even have to suspect that he has a human family? And why doesnt he known the same things in the comics before meeting Superman (protip: in most incarnations of their meeting Batman doesnt know anything about Superman's human family before Superman reveals it to him).

>>87988192
Real Superman would prevent them from doing this shit, you fucking mong.

>>87988240
>Tell me, how would have known?
You don't know shit about Batman, huh?
>What reason does he even have to suspect that he has a human family?
Because it's should be pretty obvious even for you. He could do research about Clark Kent. EVEN YOU COULD DO IT.
>And why doesnt he known the same things in the comics before meeting Superman
Because he doesn't want to kill him in GOOD comics. I don't even remember bad ones.

>>87978910
>DCEU Justice League
that's not justice league

that's league of the grey

its purpose? devoid the world of any color and protect it from the horrors of colorful scenery

main story of upcoming league of the grey movie is that colorseid will try to bring rainbow into the world but the league of the grey will stop him just in time.

>>87988175
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/bp/11-super-things-learned-man-steel-live-fan-220800093.html

>"It's inside of him — he's pretending to be Kryptonian without knowing it," explained Snyder. "It's an affinity towards what's natural in the Kryptonian culture."

>>87988338
And people will still defend this bullshit.

>>87988237
see
>>87988240

also how do you know the MoS ship doesnt have stealth? Also there are plenty of other interpretations of Superman's origin that dont specify exactly why the government didnt track his ship, why not sperg out over that?
>But no, they made it pretty clear that it was a matter of religions and shit freaking out over them coming for the Kents. Which never actually happens.

No, they make it pretty clear it was to protect Clark (hence the whole you are my son) and his family from the government/bad guys coming after them. And guess what, in BvS we see both the huge religious thing you said never actually happens (people praising superman like a god, while others think him a devil) AND we see evil people (Lex) coming after his family.
>And if hiding so that the Kents were safe is such a big deal then why do we end up with BvS, the central conflict of which is forced entirely because someone finds out about Martha? (But not the right person finding out, because then no conflict again).
One of the consequences of Superman coming out and being a hero is that Martha is now in danger like how pa kent predicted. And Batman didnt find out because he was very clearly manipulated by Lex throughout the movie. Lex wanted him to fight Superman.
>Superman's secret identity is only nominally a secret in these movies.
Less people know Superman's identity than any of the Avengers. Its literally just Superman, Lois, Martha, Batman, and maybe Perry.
>I imagine that if Clark showed up BEFORE he was forced to by way of Zod he might've been able to craft his own narrative with the human race

But you literally just mentioned Flashpoint, a comic in which Superman is revealed to the government before he is ready. And we see how that turns out. One second you are complaining that the government didnt go full totalitarian police state, the next you say that they would have reacted perfectly fine if Superman just revealed himself.


Pathetic.

>>87988215
>But the exact same arguments could be made for all those characters in the comics
Usually when we see a world without Superman Lex isn't bugshit crazy and bent on destroying Superman...Because there's no Superman.

Moreover, in the comics we're given additional threats that would exist without Superman. We haven't gotten any yet in the DCEU. I hope you do some day.

> In MoS Clark had no idea what activating the ship would do.
That's kind of the problem. He spends 30 years in fear and hiding and controlling himself because he has no idea what bad things might happen, but then he activates the ship without even a little hesitation? What if the ship was broken and turning it on made it blow up? He stops thinking so the movie can continue.

>>87988329
He has no reason to suspect that Clark is Superman, AND he is constantly being manipulated by Lex. In Batman's mind, Superman is an uncaring Space Alien with no human connections at all. He has zero reason to suspect he has a human side.

>>87988260
And MoS Superman tried to stop them as hard as he could. Sorry he didnt have god level powers.

>>87988240
>What reason does he even have to suspect that he has a human family?

Lex did discover, because he wasn't an idiot on that scene - while being a bigger idiot on others.

>And why doesnt he known the same things in the comics before meeting Superman (protip: in most incarnations of their meeting Batman doesnt know anything about Superman's human family before Superman reveals it to him).

False.

Read comics Snyderfag.

>>87988407
>>87988338
>HE HAS GENETIC DISPOSITION TO WEAR CERTAIN CLOTHES
>GAAAAH HE HAS NO FREE CHOICE AT ALL

holy kek you autists

>>87988442
>AND he is constantly being manipulated by Lex.
And you see absolutely no problem or issue with this.

>>87988442
>He has no reason to suspect that Clark is Superman
Wow. Just. Wow. Really? Is he fucking blind too? Not just retarded and insane? He has few years to find out who is Superman. Even twitchy autist did that. Batman is WOLRD'S GREATEST DETECTIVE.

>>87988442
Lex did.
Lois did.
And so they found out Clark's not so secret identity.

Clark does such a shit job of hiding who he is that for Bruce to not just randomly stumble across it during the whole "how do I stop this alien" makes him look stupid and/or lazy.

>>87988433
>Usually when we see a world without Superman Lex isn't bugshit crazy and bent on destroying Superman...Because there's no Superman.

exactly my point, he only turns evil because of Superman's existence in the comics.

>Moreover, in the comics we're given additional threats that would exist without Superman. We haven't gotten any yet in the DCEU. I hope you do some day.

What about all those natural disasters he saves people from in the montage, and that pic that is here >>87986530. Not all threats are villains anon.
>That's kind of the problem. He spends 30 years in fear and hiding and controlling himself because he has no idea what bad things might happen, but then he activates the ship without even a little hesitation? What if the ship was broken and turning it on made it blow up? He stops thinking so the movie can continue.

He spends 30 years using his powers helping people, or did you forget the whole oil rig scene or the fact that Lois tracks him down via all of his good deeds. The whole point is that its a journey of self discovery away from his family so that they will be safe should he be discovered/found out.

>>87988462
>as hard as he could.
>haven't asked AI dad for some advices
>haven't put them in phantom zone
>didn't prevent their landing by flying through the ship as last resort.
Well, at least, he has sweet dialogue with useless priest.

>>87988494
>Wow. Just. Wow. Really? Is he fucking blind too?
Yes he's blind.
He's blind as a bat.
KINO.

>>87988551
Lex is the smartest person in the world, and Lois is the world's greatest reporter. They also both know in the comics (though Lex only knows in a few issues here and there and is usually mind wiped or something else fucks with his memory.)

>>87988491
Lex is the smartest person in the world and incredibly evil, and Batman is blinded by rage. I dont see a problem with it at all.

>>87988494
why would he suspect that he has a human family? What part of Superman's public actions would indicate that? Also they make it very clear that Batman views him as incredibly inhumane.

>>87988586
Lex used FUCKING CAMERAS.

Louis FUCKING ASKED PEOPLE.

>>87988566
he did ask the AI dad for advice, and the AI dad came and helped him later when he went to their ship. He also tried to talk to them first instead of just blowing up their ship like an idiot. And he did end up putting most of them in the phantom zone.

>>87988628
Lois tracked down a series of weird events, on a hunch, and ended up finding Clark.


We never see how Lex finds out his identity.

>>87988615
Because Clark Kent has one. You're either baiting or just totally retarded.

>>87988615
So Lex see him as more human?

>>87988586
>Lois is better detective than Bruce
And you're defending it? End your pathetic life.

>>87988649
Why would Batman think Superman has anything to do with Clark Kent, some no named reporter?

>>87988586
>Lex is the smartest person in the world, and Lois is the world's greatest reporter.
And Batman isn't the World's Greatest Detective?

>. They also both know in the comics (though Lex only knows in a few issues here and there and is usually mind wiped or something else fucks with his memory.)
As a matter of fact, Lex doesn't know in the comics SPECIFICALLY for the reasons they gave Batman. They turned Batman into Lex and you applauded that shit because you don't know any better.

>>87988615
>What part of Superman's public actions would indicate that?
Making out with and constantly saving one particular woman, for one thing.

>>87978910
My friends like this movie simply because batman beat the shit out of superman and they hated supes because hes a goody two shoes. Thats the kind of people these terrible movies were made for, literally the lowest common denominator.

>>87988675
I never said that, but Lois got lucky on a hunch, she just was trying to see why there was a series of crazy good deeds happening, back when Batman had no interest in anything. And Batman was blinded by rage and had no reason to suspect that Superman had any kind of human side.

>>87988690
Actually there ARE comic where Lex does know you idiot, and once again, Batman has no reason to suspect that Superman has any human side AND is being manipulated by Lex.

>>87988714
Them making out is not public knowledge, and in the media he had saved her once (from the african warlord). Only Lex knew of their connection.

>>87988684
>>87988720
I hope you'll be beaten by your classmates for being that stupid. I'll not waste my time on you anymore.

>>87988744
>Them making out is not public knowledge,
>Nobody had a cell phone during the events of man of steel

>>87988684
Are you seriously saying that he didn't noticed that they are the same person when they talked to each other? He NEVER had doubts about the pro Superman reporter that looks like him? Are you saying that he was on a paranoic murder rage, but never had any suspicion about it?

Hell, apart from not having a lovable supporting cast, this Superman can NEVER be Clark again, not because he died - but because Lex knows.

>>87988747
>you're retarded for actually following the plot of the movie

>>87988780
They were by themselves in an evacuated and destroyed metropolis when they kissed.

>>87986649
You can't be this dense. Man of Steel defenders spam those moments fucking everywhere because they think it's evidence Snyder's capable of being subtle and having good symbology.

>>87988481
Nah, he has no free choice at all because of all the other shit that happens.
He can't choose to save his dad
He can't choose when to reveal to the world that aliens exist
He can't choose how to deal with Zod
All the major decision in his life are taken from him. The cape thing is just another in a long line of that shit.

>>87988782
in the movie, there is no indication that Batman thinks Clark is superman. Same reason why the billions of other people dont know clark is superman. its just part of the superman mythos that the clark disguise works.

>>87978910

Dude, he's convinced that there's a world ending catastrophe that's coming. Of course he's going to be the one that goes and recruits everyone into the Justice League. It's perfectly in character for him.

Oh good another DCEU argument mobius strip thread

>>87988812
They really dont, I havent seen jesus references posted in favor of these movies in forever. They arent even a big deal desu.

>>87988792
The "plot" that literally hinges on people being incredibly fucking stupid and out of character so it can advance.

>>87988838
How's your first week on 4chan?

>>87988810
Check again. Pretty sure you see people in the background.
Not to mention Lois is constantly showing up in places shouldn't be. It's public knowledge that Zod takes her for some reason, and then she's with the military in metropolis, Bruce wouldn't think anything of any of that?

>>87988816
the point is that he still always has a choice, even when they are "taken" from him. He chose to protect his home/mom by listening to his dad and not revealing himself too early. He chose to defend his home when Zod came, despite the very real possibility that he would be grouped in with them by the humans. He chose Earth over letting Zod rampage/trying to save Zod for the third time.

>>87988841
what is out of character about Lois following up a hunch for a story?

>>87988858
ive been in most BvS threads, and the pro-jesus allegory stuff hasnt been spammed for months.

>>87988907

>>87988858
>How's your first week on 4chan?

>>87988823
Yeah but him going as himself and not The Batman seems a bit out of character. The guy who made contingency plans for his closest friends and plays nearly everything close to the chest will expose himself to these metas upon first meeting?

>>87988863
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI3eBENgyVQ

You're right, exactly three people see them kiss, people that have no reason to tell or show the world.


And like you said Lois is constantly showing up in places she shouldnt, so its no different for her to show up as part of the Zod thing. She is a stubborn reporter. The only person who seems to know she has a relationship with Superman is Perry and Lex (in BvS anyway).

>>87988923
find some proof in the archives then, show me a thread from the last few months full of pro-jesus allegory spam? I sure as hell never post it. And that doesnt change the fact that MoS just has the one big jesus reference, and the rest are a stretch.

>>87988946
Snyder hates people talking in costumes, specifically if they're wearing masks. He feels like you can't take the scene seriously.

You know Louis isnt as snarky as she should be in this universe.

>>87986530
>Superman shifts tectonic plates
>Superman saves homeless man camping in forest
>Superman prevents supergerm from wiping out humanity
things we will never visually see on film, sadly

>>87987517
He was at the start of the Giffen/DeMatteis League. "Get that camera out of my face!"

>>87989017
No one wants to watch those, we want to see him look angry and beat people up.

>>87988949
>people that have no reason to tell or show the world.
>I was at ground zero for the event of the millenia but nah, I'm never going to talk to anyone. No reason to
And you people say this is a realistic universe.

>>87989017
What also sucks is during that montage in BvS of Superman saving people he has the expression that someone shot a puppy. Im not saying he has to be a smiling fucking idiot all the time but he should be the boyscout who acts like he wants to do the right thing with a hint of humility

File: Supergrim.png (338KB, 612x692px) Image search: [Google]

338KB, 612x692px

>>87989066
So he's JL's flying Hulk.

File: 1473260735892.png (1MB, 1890x1460px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1890x1460px

>>87989079
Stop acting like this is something that happens in comics.

>>87989126
And has just as many lines.

>>87978910
Alright, I guess. That's like saying Captain America will have a pretty big role in an Avengers movie to me.

File: Clockwork.png (1MB, 2673x1750px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2673x1750px

>>87978910
The movie genuinely looks awful. Like, Snyder didn't even try to hide behind misleading trailers like he did with MoS and BvS.

Given WW rests on Gal Gadot, I fully expect the DCEU to be 0 for 5 this time next year.

>>87986738
>33
Whoa holy shit I didn't think Clark was that old in MoS. I always thought he was maybe 24 or 25 at the youngest.

>>87989068
>realistic universe
No one says this. Any universe with superheroes in it is inherently unrealistic and anyone who says otherwise is autistic. That's not to say you can't have an unrealistic world in which its people act realistically or where the world reflects our own in its themes.

DCfans stopped caring about comic accurate adaptations a long time ago

>>87990389
He literally says he's 33 while standing in front of a giant stained glass depiction of jesus wearing a flowing red cloak. Cause that's subtle.

>>87990449
>No one says this.

>>87979269
>Yes and that origin wouldn't work in a realistic paranoid shit hole world

One of you does at least.

>>87990512
I never picked up on it desu, but I've never read the bible.

>>87990562
Yeah, but that anon's autistic.
>>87990483
There are zero comic accurate movies in existence.

>>87979634

Just pretend in all of the explosions the people got blown clear from the blast. Like in most action movies. Or just watch any Marvel movie and see Captain America kill people and realize it's not a big deal.

>>87990757
I wasn't aware batman fought in world war 2.

>>87990757
That's my problem with MCU Cap. He acts more like a soldier than a super hero. Shit, my problem with the MCU as a whole. It's all so militarized, everything is tacticool, even Spidey's debut costume.

>>87987556
Hi Pajeet. Still haven't learned your lesson from the last time in /tv/?

>>87987706
No he didn't, you absolute mongoloid.

>>87978910
>How does this make you feel /co/?
Awkward, because i'm used to my kid books characters acting socially retarded just like me wah wah.

>>87991135
You have Snyderman to act socially retarded for you. Nigga doesn't have friends, just like you.

File: STOP IT.jpg (13KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 480x480px

>>87978910
>Batman is the most social member of the DCEU Justice League.

>How does this make you feel /co/?
RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

>>87987488
>If you need to give someone a copy of Plato's Republic before they can appreciate Man of Steel that doesn't make Man of Steel good;' it (maybe) makes Plato's Republic good.

You're saying that as someone who hasn't read Plato's Republic though. As someone who has read Plato's Republic; Man of Steel drawing on ideas in Plato's Republic makes Man of Steel more interesting.

Metatextuality is something which happens within all forms of fiction. As someone who claims to be a comic book fan where metatextuality is the most present and in your face of all fiction mediums I'm surprised you're arguing against it.

It would be like bitching about Watchmen because you haven't read the various texts from which Watchmen gets its chapter titles and ending quotes.

>>87990483
No such thing as a comic accurate cape flick, anon.

File: zack-snyder-henry-cavill-sdcc-571893725.jpg (33KB, 486x323px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 486x323px

>>87991697
He has a wife that will let him get away with lots of shit, too bad you will never have this kind of love.

File: 1442290372393.gif (214KB, 450x250px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 450x250px

>>87992304
>He has a wife

And no other friends besides his mother.

He is almost a 40 yeard old man.

He basically has no supporting cast, and cant even go back at being Clark anymore.

>too bad you will never have this kind of love.

I am married and I can tell you that I am more socially adjusted and happy than Snyderman. Its not even difficult, the movie showed that the guy is one death away from becoming a murderous dictator, because he has no other ties to hummanity.


Also, he has alucinations with dead people out of nowhere.

>>87992487
>I am married
Yeah hahaha, i believe you.

>>87992487
>has no other ties to humanity
I think that's the point. He's been an outcast since he was a kid, and up until he became Superman, he kind of wandered through life.
>has hallucinations with dead people out of no where
It think that's part of the point, too. Pa Kent was the one person he could confide in outside of MARTHA and Lois.
Also, who /Arrival/ here? Amy Adams was fucking great in it.

>>87990686
>There are zero comic accurate movies in existence.
Sin City?

>>87992573
Some day you might find your other half too anon, keep trying.

>>87992837
>I think that's the point.
It is, which is stupid for a Superman movie.

One of the major complains of Superman is that people see him too distant and over powered. Snyder answer to this is to make him distant, stoic and barely mentally stable.

>>87993080
I wouldn't say BARELY mentally stable. The only crazy thing he does is talk to his dead dad. You could argue that BvS Batman is crazier than he is with his bat hallucinations, brutal tactics and wanton murder.

>>87993222
Batsnyder looks like he has PTSD.

Snyderman looks boderline schizophrenic.

>>87986597
I'm outright stating that the Iron Man movies are more profitable than whatever the fuck DC universe is trying to be.

I feel sorry for every actor involved in this drek because their reputation is going to drag on because of Snyder's incompetence.

>>87979364
Superman has only appeared in two films atm and he has caused just as much destruction and death as the people he's supposed to be fighting.

When I saw him die, I was like "meh" because nothing he did moved me one way or the other, which is disappointing because I originally fell in love with his character after watching the Bruce Timm cartoons.

>>87993310
How so?

>>87990859
Isn't Capt. America literally a soldier though?

As in, fighting NAZI's during WW2 in service to his country? As in, the entire fucking point of his character's origin?

>>87983152
Of course he does, most of them end up dying and coming back to life.

>>87993491
Isnt it hilarious?

I remember people were worried that Cap might die on Civil War, but fucking nobody cared for SUPERMAN death. This is ridiculous.

>>87993562

He literally see dead people and has conversations with them, and aparently get told things that he didnt knew.

>>87984497
Contrasted with Batman Beyond where he ends up old, sick, and alone after Robin gets mindraped by the Joker and eventually forced to hang up the cowl once his age catches up to him.

Hell, he almost let Terry die during the first few episodes for stealing his suit until Terry convinced him to let him avenge his father.

>>87993662
That's a common comic trope, though. That's like saying Spider-Man is a schizophrenic because he misses Uncle Ben. Jack Knight had the same thing happen to him with multiple people, but that doesn't make him a schizo.

>>87979140
Because he's Batman. Would you fight him if you knew he was The Bat?

>>87993791
>That's like saying Spider-Man is a schizophrenic because he misses Uncle Ben.

But Snyderman literally SEE his dad, hear him, and get told things that he doesnt know. Its not just "missing".

>>87993862
It's not like he sees him in a room full of people and converses with him in front of everyone. It's something he does when he's alone. And there has to be a few Spidey comics where he talks to Uncle Ben for sage advice.

>>87981227
>>87993491
>>87993662
Maybe we didn't care about Superman dying because we KNOW for SURE that he's coming right back.

>>87988886
He chose to protect his home, yet let his father die just because his father told him not to?

I don't know about you, but if I saw my dad about to be killed in front of me, I'd rush out there to save him regardless of the consequences.

Even the whole "don't reveal you identity" bit is retarded because the alternative was for Clark to literally let a bus full of students die when he had the ability to save them but didn't because...reasons I guess.

Which also conflicts with the Christ imagery because Jesus did what needed to be done, even when he knew that it'd end up in him being betrayed, tortured, and crucified.

Jesus chose to speak the word of his father, Superman obeyed even when it caused easily preventable problems if he had nutted up and stopped being such a fucking pansy while making poor decisions that made things worse.

>>87992906
it moves, the comic doesnt

>>87993940
That's only part of it.
Another part is that death actually seemed like a release for him as his life was nothing but suffering.
Another part was that I kind of have to like someone to care if they're gone.

>>87993568
Yeah but this is the Snyder school of thought, where when the death star actively targets and blows up a planet, that's collateral damage. Every character is identical so that Superman doesn't have to be held to a special standard. If another movie ever did it, it's fair game and perfect for this one.

>>87988732
Except that he's the goddamn batman and should've known something substantial about his opponent before he tried to fight him.

In every incarnation of JL, Batman always has a database full of everyone's information, including who they are and their superpowers.

FFS, Batman basically revealed everyone's secret identity towards the end of JL when they had to go on the run from the bird people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME66HTeNbHY

Also, how does Lois Lane figure out this shit before Batman?

>>87992178
Okay, let me ask you this then. If metatextuality is acceptable and happens in all forms of fiction, why doesn't all the metatextual Superman = Jesus stuff count?

>>87990686
>Yeah, but that anon's autistic.
He's also one of the most vocal defenders of the DCEU. The exact kind of mindset these crap flicks are made for.

>>87988896
The fact that Lois Lane figures out who Supes is before Batman?

The fact that Lois throws the spear into a lake before going in to fish it out?

The fact that Lois is the one doing most of the detective work while Batman scowls and commits manslaughter?

To name a few.

>>87978910

Bruce.... is social sure.. he's a businessman

why are you inferring Bruce Wayne is Batman?

>>87994156
>I don't know about you, but if I saw my dad about to be killed in front of me, I'd rush out there to save him regardless of the consequences.

Right before he sacrificed himself, Pa Kent and young Clark were having a conversation where Clark told Pa Kent he wasnt his real dad (this was in relation to Pa Kent once again telling him to hide his powers and Clark being asspained over it). Part of Clark listening to his dad when he says not to save him, is Clark admitting that Pa Kent is his real father and that he does actually trust his judgement despite him lashing out a second ago at him. And once again, Pa Kent ended up being right because when he did reveal himself the government did try to come after him, a super villain came after him, and people starter praising him like a messiah figure.


>Even the whole "don't reveal you identity" bit is retarded because the alternative was for Clark to literally let a bus full of students die when he had the ability to save them but didn't because...reasons I guess.


He did save the school bus though, and the whole point of that scene was that it was a hard choice to make, because revealing himself (especially at such a young age) might be worse in the long run.
>Which also conflicts with the Christ imagery because Jesus did what needed to be done, even when he knew that it'd end up in him being betrayed, tortured, and crucified.


Thats the point of the movies, Superman shares a lot of parallels to jesus but is actually not a messiah, he is just a man with powers who is liable to mistakes.

>>87994343
You just cited the DCAU so now you're a casual. Not like Snyder fans, they know all the secret issues.

>>87988984
If that were true then why even direct the movie?

He did the Watchmen movie fairly well so I don't see how he can take something like Supes and Batman less seriously than that.

>>87994455
>And once again, Pa Kent ended up being right because when he did reveal himself the government did try to come after him, a super villain came after him, and people starter praising him like a messiah figure.
Literally all of that happened because of how Clark handled the situation. His paranoia created a self fulfilling prophecy.

>>87993940
Even then I felt nothing for his demise.

I hated Synderverse Superman and nothing he's done in two films has made me warm up to him.

>>87994474
Because Snyder likes deconstructions of capeshit, not the original genre codifiers, plain and simple. It's not entirely sure whether or not he realizes that stuff like Watchmen is a deconstruction. His wife does though, so he might.

>>87994455
>>87994502


You two should just go fuck each other angrily and get it over with

>>87994455
Everyone went after him because he handled everything in the worst possible way.

If he was smarter about it, nobody would've made that big a deal about it and most of the problems could've been avoided.

>>87994293
All of this, but also, the fact that they killed him so early into this whole franchise. WHO FUCKING DOES THAT? WHO FUCKING KILLS SUPERMAN IN THE SECOND MOVIE OF YOUR BIG CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!?

Fucking christ, Snyder doesn't know shit about narrative pacing. That's something that you save for the big climax of the whole damn thing. Not your second movie going in.

>>87994343
> should've known something substantial about his opponent before he tried to fight him.


He knew his one weakness that not even Superman knew about. Also why would he need to threaten his family at all? Holding people hostage like that has never been Batman's MO, and he views Superman as an uncaring alien man who probably couldnt give a shit about humanity. He still has no reason to know his secret identity or to even think he has one.


>In every incarnation of JL, Batman always has a database full of everyone's information, including who they are and their superpowers.

Well thats just bullshit, he wasnt even IN the first incarnation of the Justice League, or in other justice league eras like JL Detroit. And even when Batman is in a league, he only has back ups to kill everyone if the plot demands it.


>FFS, Batman basically revealed everyone's secret identity towards the end of JL when they had to go on the run from the bird people.
>citing the DCAU for anything, specifically Batman knowing his friend's secret identities
>Also, how does Lois Lane figure out this shit before Batman?
She literally just followed a series of small town newspaper articles about strange heroic acts and stumbled upon Clark as she followed her hunch.

>>87994470
What secret issues, the problems are all right there, clear as day. In every incarnation, Batman knows everyone's identities and their weaknesses, just in case any of them go rogue.

Maybe Lois Lane should've been the fucking Batman since she's the only one in the fucking movie with more than two brain cells to rub together. FFS, she's the one who implicates Luthor to the terrorist attack and the senate bombing.

>>87994606
If Lois could do basic detective work to figure out who Superman was, why couldn't Batman?

Why does Lois Lane act like more of a detective than the goddamn Batman?

It's asinine.

>>87994431
>The fact that Lois Lane figures out who Supes is before Batman?
She literally just followed a series of small town newspaper articles about strange heroic acts and stumbled upon Clark as she followed her hunch. Batman had no reason to care about Clark at that point and has no reason to think Superman has a human identity.
>The fact that Lois throws the spear into a lake before going in to fish it out?
She was getting rid of the thing that was poisoning her loved one, and gets it out when she realizes whatever threat they are fighting came from the kryptonian ship.
>The fact that Lois is the one doing most of the detective work while Batman scowls and commits manslaughter?
Batman copied the KGBeast's phone, infiltrated multiple parties, stole data from Lex, figured out Superman's weakness, hacked Lex's hard drive, interrogated multiple gang members, figured out where Lex's kryptonite shipment was and how to get it, put a tracker on said shipment, and had alfred track down Martha wayne. Granted most of this was part of Lex's manipulation of Batman, but he still did more actual detective work than Lois.

>>87994585
>WHO FUCKING DOES THAT? WHO FUCKING KILLS SUPERMAN IN THE SECOND MOVIE OF YOUR BIG CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!?
A Batman fan with too much power and not enough shits to give.
The reason Snyder gave for Superman dying is that he'd have too easy a time convincing people to join the Justice League, a movie that he wants to be about Batman gathering the seven samurai.

Because he wants to make the magnificent seven so damn badly. Just like how he can't do a scene with them talking in costume if it gets in the way of his homage to The Heat. Just like we need a bunch of arthurian imagery because he wants to reference Excalibur.

Snyder's much too busy remaking movies he likes to worry about whether or not they're the movie he's actually working on.

>>87994569
>>87994502

>Everyone went after him because he handled everything in the worst possible way.
>Literally all of that happened because of how Clark handled the situation. His paranoia created a self fulfilling prophecy.


The government sent a drone after him right after he saved the world. The only reason they stopped is because he asked nicely. Lex went after him because he saved the world. Same with Batman. How could he have handled things any differently?

>>87994683
see
>>87994686
she didnt do more detective work, he just had no reason to be looking for the same information she was

>>87994686
Yet Lois is the one who implicates Luthor to both the senate bombing and the massacre overseas.

I mean, the fact that Superman needed help finding his mother when he could literally X Ray the city and save her within the blink of an eye is a plot hole in and of itself.

>>87994741
>Yet Lois is the one who implicates Luthor to both the senate bombing and the massacre overseas.
Because Batman had no reason to think it was Luthor, he was blinded by his rage and was being manipulated BY Luthor to see those as just reactions to Superman existing.


>I mean, the fact that Superman needed help finding his mother when he could literally X Ray the city and save her within the blink of an eye is a plot hole in and of itself.
He didn't need help finding her, but Lex was going to kill her if he came after her and release Doomsday.

File: Superman_Stoplookingforasavior.jpg (400KB, 1048x1600px) Image search: [Google]

400KB, 1048x1600px

>>87994713
>The government sent a drone after him right after he saved the world.
No, the drone was sent after him because he didn't make the first impression on the world. Zod did. When the first time you interact with someone five thousand people die you're not going to trust him after that.

> The only reason they stopped is because he asked nicely.
This honestly never made sense.
>Lex went after him because he saved the world.
The justifications they gave for this were stupid as shit.
>Same with Batman.
Fruit of the poisonous tree; he's manipulated by Lex, and is an idiot that's got to act irrationally crazy so they can have their silly fight.

> How could he have handled things any differently?
By taking active charge of his narrative. Preferably from day one, but certainly after the events of Man of Steel it was necessary. All that stuff you guys insist is filler and only worthy of a montage? That builds not just Clark's trust with humanity, but that of superhumans as a whole. It's important.

And as for people treating him like a messiah? Pic. Fucking. Related..

>>87994397
>the most extreme member of a group of people represents the totality of them

>>87994713
Asked nicely my left ass cheek, he shot that drone out of the sky and basically told them "if we're going to work together, I'm on top bitch!"

Lex and Batman went after him because they both see him as a massive threat to the world if he decided that he wasn't going to follow orders anymore.

An easy way to not fuck up relations between himself and earth would've been to handle it with a bit more diplomacy, or at the very least, not help destroy half a city block and piss off the government who wanted to know more about the alien who was related to other aliens who wanted to destroy the world and could fly through a building without being harmed.

Maybe a press conference, or maybe even the way he revealed himself in the comics, cartoons, movies, or literally any fucking other superman piece of media out there that dealt with him coming into his role as a superhero.

For fucks sake.

>>87994870
I could use the kino meme guys as an example instead. Or how about the DCEU reddit?

>>87994734
Lois is the one to link Lex to all the bullshit happening in the movie.

The best that Batman does is build a playbook that only relates to Superman.

File: eradicator unleashed.jpg (2MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1988x3056px

>>87978910
New DC clearly hates Superman.

They can't even give Clark his own show or cartoon anymore.

At least the comics are still treating him well.

>>87994706
Why the fuck are we getting so many weird and unnecessary homages in our cinematic DC universe?

Like, I get that these are movies and all, but was anyone REALLY asking for a Justice League movie that homaged the Magnificent Seven? It's just odd, which sums up just about everything Zack Snyder has ever made. Really, really odd.

Honestly, I get the impression that Snyder cares more about the film medium and fellating himself than he does about comics.

>>87994946
A playbook that forgets to look at the coaches, or the home stadium.

>>87994955
The sad thing is that I might actually like a Justice League movie that referenced the Magnificent Seven. The remake of it this year was really fun.

But after two of these Snyder movies I'm beyond done.

>>87994841
>No, the drone was sent after him because he didn't make the first impression on the world. Zod did. When the first time you interact with someone five thousand people die you're not going to trust him after that.


Thats like blaming cops when robbers kill people because they didnt do their job well enough. Superman literally did the best job he could and it was his first outing as Superman. He didn't have much time to control the narrative before Zod showed up.


>The justifications they gave for this were stupid as shit.
No, it was just like Lex always has been, petty and jealous of Superman. In every interpretation they just frame that hate differently.
>By taking active charge of his narrative. Preferably from day one, but certainly after the events of Man of Steel it was necessary. All that stuff you guys insist is filler and only worthy of a montage? That builds not just Clark's trust with humanity, but that of superhumans as a whole. It's important.
I never said it was filler, it got its own montage for goddsake, thats more saving people from natural disasters than we ever see an Avenger doing.


>And as for people treating him like a messiah? Pic. Fucking. Related.
Superman was trying to do exactly that at the Senate hearing but Luthor blew it up. Part of what makes him so effective is that he doesn't let Superman get a chance to defend himself in the public eye.

>>87995007
>even after JL is finished filming, done in post-production, and in theaters, Snyder's still more than likely going to be involved with the DCEU, including directing more movies for it
I want off this ride.

>>87994801
If Batman was manipulated by Lex then, I don't know how to tell you this but, he might be fucking retarded.

No, seriously, this is the dumbest incarnation of Batman to date, even dumber than when Adam West played him. Him and Supes are both fucking idiots who get wrenched around from one person to the other until the plot allows them to use their brains to actually solve the problem by the end of act 3.

>He didn't need help finding her, but Lex was going to kill her if he came after her and release Doomsday.

This nigga is fast enough to challenge the fucking flash in a footrace my dude. He could find her, rescue her, and return to the top of the building where Lex is in the time it takes Lex to utter six words.

Yet he doesn't because goddammit, we planned for an ebin fight scene and we're going to make a fight scene.

>>87994955
He's never liked comics.
He loves directing big-budget SFX films with low storytelling standards, and with Batman in them he can reliably meet expectations at the box office.

>>87994893
>Asked nicely my left ass cheek, he shot that drone out of the sky and basically told them "if we're going to work together, I'm on top bitch!"

>An easy way to not fuck up relations between himself and earth would've been to handle it with a bit more diplomacy, or at the very least, not help destroy half a city block and piss off the government who wanted to know more about the alien who was related to other aliens who wanted to destroy the world and could fly through a building without being harmed.
He tried harder, and more effectively than anyone, to stop Zod. It was literally his first fight against a Super person, and he was fighting multiple people just as strong as he was. Thats like blaming the military for not stopping Zod faster.
>Lex and Batman went after him because they both see him as a massive threat to the world if he decided that he wasn't going to follow orders anymore.
Batman was manipulated by Lex into going after him. Lex was a jealous and petty asshole who didnt believe Superman could be all good and all powerful.
>Maybe a press conference, or maybe even the way he revealed himself in the comics, cartoons, movies, or literally any fucking other superman piece of media out there that dealt with him coming into his role as a superhero.
He tries to talk to the Senate but Lex blows it up. Its part of his plan to rob Superman of any chance of changing the narrative.

>>87994975
>>87994946
Batman had no reason to go after Lex though, he thought it was all Superman's fault. Batman does lots of detective work, its just all focused on killing Superman.

>>87995057
Even worse, he thinks of himself as some kind of auteur and thinks there's some kind of artistic merit to his movies when there is not.

>>87984615
>Stopping an earthquake for one, and a life-ending supervirus as well.
Wait what?

>>87978910
eh, they kind of already started doing this when
>THE BATMAN
was on KidsWb.
In that series, Superman was the obstanate loner to begin with and Batman was actually trying to get the league together.

File: zorrogayblade.jpg (53KB, 680x587px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 680x587px

>>87995086
>Batman does lots of detective work, its just all focused on killing
Hilariously off-note characterization is beginning to be the hallmark of WB cape films.

>>87993662
>nobody cared for SUPERMAN death.
Except for the fans? You know, the people the movies are made for?

File: Charity.jpg (362KB, 1023x1599px) Image search: [Google]

362KB, 1023x1599px

>>87995046
>This nigga is fast enough to challenge the fucking flash in a footrace my dude. He could find her, rescue her, and return to the top of the building where Lex is in the time it takes Lex to utter six words.

He obviously isnt that fast in the Snyder-verse, or hasnt realized he is that fast yet. You retard. And He only ever came close to beating Flash in the comics because Flash LET HIM because they were for CHARITY you casual


>No, seriously, this is the dumbest incarnation of Batman to date, even dumber than when Adam West played him
Batman was blinded by rage, as Alfred said. Also
>thinking Adam West is dumb
>able to figure out those abstract as shit riddler riddles

nigga what

>>87995137
thats the point, Batman has fallen and gone crazy and is a villain until the end when Superman helps him redeem himself.

>>87993690
Yeah, this is one of the very big problems with the DCAU. Their treatment of Batman is so bad.

>>87995022
>He didn't have much time to control the narrative before Zod showed up.

Which is the fucking problem.

He literally does nothing for most of the film leading up to the fight with Zod.

>No, it was just like Lex always has been, petty and jealous of Superman. In every interpretation they just frame that hate differently.

In other incarnations, they remember that Supes is supposed to be a good guy, not an ineffectual idiot who gets jerked around.

>I never said it was filler, it got its own montage for goddsake, thats more saving people from natural disasters than we ever see an Avenger doing.

The Avengers don't kill people either. In fact, during the film, they do everything in their power to save citizens while leading Loki's forces away from the city.

Which is more than can be said for Supes.

>Part of what makes him so effective is that he doesn't let Superman get a chance to defend himself in the public eye.

Usually because he causing most of the issues.

File: Faora.jpg (105KB, 407x612px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 407x612px

>>87995158
He literally made the sound barrier his bitch a couple of times in his very first fight, then went on to fight Kryptonians who could move faster than could be tracked visually.

>>87995086
Unless killing Superman means following him home. Even though Superman blew up a drone.

That's what bugs me.
The military tries to track Superman.
Superman stops them
If I were a paranoid super-detective bent on killing Superman, I'd go "why doesn't he want to be traced? Where's he going?!"

But Batman doesn't do that. He just sits in his cave until Lex leaves a USB cable out for him to plug into.

>>87995146
>Except for the fans? You know, the people the movies are made for?
Nigga, the fans are on here. The fans have been mostly the ones critiquing BvS and tearing it to shreds. Fuck this shit. I'm so sick of this, "It's for the fans," horseshit. Because they miss the mark on what the fucking fans want every single fucking times except for the ones with really low standards and are entertained merely by the fact that they can watch a movie with both Batman and Superman in it.

I'm a huge fan of DC Comics and Superman and the ending of BvS did NOTHING for me. Killing of Superman so goddamn soon just elicited a "wut?" out of me. Especially since it was pretty fucking obvious that they'd just bring him back in JL anyway.

>>87995158
>He obviously isnt that fast in the Snyder-verse
He crosses 2000 miles within the span of a few seconds to catch Lois as she's falling off a skyscraper.

Yet he doesn't know that he's actually that fast.

You fucking retard.

>Batman was blinded by rage,

Then he's not that smart, because holy balls, you could smell the setup through the screen it was so fucking obvious.

Lex only succeeded because everyone else was fucking stupid.

>>87994533
>felt nothing for his demise.
>I hated Synderverse Superman
Well doesn't that explain it then? Of course you won't care if you already decided to hate him. If someone hated Iron Man and didn't care about the MCU of course he wouldn't care if he died. How is this any different?

>>87995158
It's possible to stay blinded by rage for an hour or so, it's not something you maintain for days, especially with your close friends telling you to chill.
As usual, characterization is sacrificed to advance the creaky plot.

>>87995022
>He didn't have much time to control the narrative before Zod showed up.
Yes. Because that was his choice. He chose to wait. And wait. and wait. and wait. or the "right moment". Then Zod says "Fuck it if he's not going to go, I am."

>>87995240
>No TRUE DC fan would hate based snyder

>>87995077
>Thats like blaming the military for not stopping Zod faster.
I'm going to blame him for taking the fight from a relatively deserted farmland to a densely populated area once but then never trying that shit again once the fight resumed and he realized "hmm, I think I'm just as strong as him."
>Batman was manipulated by Lex into going after him. Lex was a jealous and petty asshole who didnt believe Superman could be all good and all powerful.
Yet he was able to be tricked by a dude who delivered a jar of his own piss to someone just because he couldn't take 10 seconds to smell the setup.
>Its part of his plan to rob Superman of any chance of changing the narrative.
The narrative wouldn't need to be changed if Supes wasn't stupid and was the first guy to reveal that aliens were real, especially after being forewarned that Zod was coming.

>>87995240
>The fans have been mostly the ones critiquing BvS and tearing it to shreds.
lol

Then they wouldn't be fans, would they?

>I'm a huge fan of DC Comics and Superman and the ending of BvS did NOTHING for me.
That's your own fault for being a sociopath.

>they'd just bring him back in JL anyway.
Then it wouldn't matter when he died. You don't matter. Only fans that can be satisfied matter. You're like a Sonic "fan" in that literally nothing would appease you. So why try? Better to make movies for me than you.

>>87995246
>Of course you won't care if you already decided to hate him
The death comes after about five hours of chances he had to win us over. If he didn't that's not on us.

>>87995286
Yeah it's pretty much a no-true scotsman deal. Even as someone who hates Snyder's movies and the DCEU, even I can admit that there are DC fans who seem to genuinely like MoS and BvS. I honestly can't really see how but there you go.

>>87995168
Redeem himself? He pulls a complete 180 because Supes decided to call out to his mother by her first name.

Thank fuck he didn't call her "mom" or the movie would've ended a lot sooner.

>>87995355
Please be bait.

>>87995356
Great movies, great scenes, great moments. If you don't like Snyder's Superman by now then it's 100% your own fault.

>>87995170
Compared to this movie, where he's a psychopath who misses the most obvious clues because he's too stupid to know he's being played?

At least old Bruce makes sense considering how many times he's been beat to shit over the years. Old boy should be grateful he didn't end up dying sooner.