Explain to me why nerds are so assblasted about the neck snap again

It wasn't justified. Fit with the narrative of the movie and Zod died similarly in the comics.

superman that most people know doesnt kill people

>>87923549
this movie is so fucked

zzzzzzzzzzzz

>>87923598

most people don't know that this is literally an origin story.

>>87923549
Superman shouldn't make hard choices!

I don't know, why are you so assblasted people didn't like it?

>>87923549
People wanting another rehash of the Donner films and claiming that the jokes and smirking that accompanied Superman killing Zod, and Lois killing Ursa, some how make Superman 2 the superior film about killing Zod.

>>87923713
they were supposed to be shown being picked up by the police, but was cut for some reason, presumably because the movie was long enough already

>>87923709
Because >>87923561

I'll never understand how Snyder has so many fanboys here. Where did they come from?

>>87923549
I wasn't, I was with the Snyder going, "oh thousands died colliding with Superman"

>>87923561
This.
I'm fine with Superman killing zod. That faggot Max Landis had it right with saying something along the lines of "Superman killing zod is like an adult killing another adult to protect children" it does not mean that superman kills humans because that would be like superman killing a child. I'm fine with superman killing provided it has WEIGHT TO THE DECISION. Provided it MAKES SENSE within the context of the story.
Note: the above isn't actually in the movie. They never go into "krypton is your responsibility" or how that gets in clarks head and how he can't refuse that call and shit. He just kind of walks around asking everyone else "what should I do maybe?"
I'm even fine with Batman killing provided it has fucking WEIGHT TO IT. Batman picking up a gun and aiming it at fucking Darkseid the personification of evil in DC made fucking sense as the dude who had his parents gunned down by evil is now facing evil itself with a gun. And it was still fucking hard. Flipping a car on some bozo because he wants to get paid and doesnt know any better isn't facing down evil it's just being a cunt.
You could justify this as "He's at the end of his rope and Jason just died so he's already on edge then he saw a literal vision of the apocalypse and the way out of the apocalypse is to kill freely"
BUT GUESS FUCKING WHAT, THAT'S ALSO JUST GLOSSED OVER IN THE GODDAMN MOVIE

Snyder can't into subtext, emotions, or gravity of choices - just shallow metaphors. It's hamfisted "wouldn't it be cool if" extrapolations and nothing more.

Zod was literally about to kill a kid after Supes told him multiple times to stop. Getting butthurt about that is like getting butthurt about Bin Laden getting killed.

>>87923791
I'll never understand how people think Snyder has fanboys here. The most unironic defense he gets is people saying "it wasn't really that bad".

>>87923598
>superman that most people know doesnt kill people

Which goes to show that most people don't actually know superman.

>>87924183
other than the much maligned killing of zod with kryptonite, I dont think he ever had a history of killing, at one point choosing suicide over killing someone else

>>87924038
But what did Bin Laden do?

>>87924533
murdered thousands of people in a terrorist attack?

>>87924571
>He thinks Bin Laden was a real person

>>87924345
>other than the much maligned killing of zod with kryptonite

It's still something he's done. He not only killed he killed Zod and not even to prevent a tragedy, he killed Zod as punishment for one. That's far less defensible honestly.

>>87924613
>>He thinks Bin Laden was a real person

Jesus, I prefer the /pol/ leaks to the /x/ ones. At least your average racist will admit that the world is round.

>>87923607
The final fight between Neo and Super-Smith in Matrix Revolutions remains the ultimate Superman/Zod fight.

As for this scene, who was wispering in their ears, "Superman must sometimes kill...Superman must sometimes kill..."?

Gosh, Miss Lane. Mr. White should fire these motherfuckers.

>>87923549
Because Zod was the best character in the movie.
If you want me to feel good about the hero's "victory" you have to make him likable instead of (at best) pitiful.

Zach Snyder worships Ayn Rand and Objectivism.

The instrument he chose to relay the values of Objectivism... was Superman.

So he has to take a character that was founded on hope, doing the right thing, responsible use of power, and that doing the right thing ultimately works out because crime doesn't pay, and turn that story into a cautionary tale about the stupidity and fruitlessness of helping others, charity, and self sacrifice.

Zach Snyder's Barney the Dinosaur movie would be about a dinosaur that has the ability to sing educational songs about friendship and learning to kids better than anyone, but Barney knows he is conflicted about his terrible urges to murder and eat all the kids in the neighborhood. Not that he's ever done it, or wants to, he just can't stand the idea of taking away the hope he hasn't even given children yet. He has to stay away from kids and not sing, or the kids will come and play and risk being eaten. Brooding the whole movie, Barney finally comes to his test. The test is not "Barney must save the day by singing the perfect song to teach kids that learning is fun", it is "Barney discovers that the only way he can save the day is by murdering and eating a kid, but later he will sing some songs because he accepts that he has the burden of eating kids and needs them close just in case".

>>87924782

>you have to make him likable

DC completely fucked this up. They have Superman wandering around looking like his fucking dog just died and now they're making a Batman movie where he's running around cracking smile and jokes like he's set at 23% Clooney.

It's because they did nothing with it. Zod's death is given this big gravitas but the movie does nothing with it and it isn't touched on in BvS. It felt like it was put in there to be edgy.

>>87924878
>It felt like it was put in there to be edgy.

When comics fans say the word edgy we all know they mean "something I don't like". It's meaningless and overused. It's usually used about superman too if you'll notice.

>>87923561
Wrong. It was justified.

>>87923973
What a shortsighted pleb.

Eitehr that or shitty pasta.

>>87924965
>Wrong. It was justified.

I know right? Dudes act like you can't do whatever it takes to stop some douchenozzle from setting a family on fucking fire.

>>87923549
I just didn't care anymore, after 20 minutes of destruction I was just waiting for the ending. Glad he finally decide to save at least that family.

Also making out over the ruins could have been avoided.

>>87925056
"justified" has nothing to do with it. The asinine writers set up the situation where Superman has to kill. Superman is supposed to figure out a way to *not* have to do that, perhaps alone among all superheroes.

For that matter, when I saw it in the theater, I deliberately looked for the family fleeing afterwards, and did not see them. This suggested Superman did kill Zod, but too late.

In other words, he learned his lesson the hard way.

>>87925056
What made that family special?

It was completely anticlimactic end to a fight scene with no weight. I wanted to see a Superman movie with a superpowered fight as much as the next guy when MoS came out - just not at the expense of every other aspect.

>>87925214
They had a special kind of retardation, to be hanging around a museum when the whole world was falling apart around them.

>>87925214
The mother's name was Martha

>>87925169
>Superman is supposed to figure out a way to *not* have to do that

We all know that you want to read about supergod. We've heard it from you guys a *lot*.

>Superman should have benn able to save everyone in Metropolis and if he failed to save any single one he should have gone back in time and saved them anyway.

The movies you guys are looking for were made 40 some odd years ago.

>>87925214
>What made that family special?

Wut? Superman doesn't have to check to see if a family is special before he does whatever it takes to save them. What superman do you guys think of when you think superman?

>>87925258
>hanging around a museum when the whole world was falling apart around them.

Yeah, dumb guys running into a solid stone building when the outside world is blowing up. They should have run around in the middle of the street instead... what?

>>87925472
>>87925441

>Still shilling this hard for this piece of garbage movie.

>>87923549

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou0ozvnJumE

>>87925441
>Wut? Superman doesn't have to check to see if a family is special before he does whatever it takes to save them. What superman do you guys think of when you think superman?
According to Snyder, at least 5000 people died during Zod's attack all told.
Why were the first 4996 not enough to have Clark try to put Zod down? Why was that last contrived random four the final straw?

Hell, if he doesn't have to check and just acts to save people, why didn't he save his dad, damn the consequences?

>>87925767
>>Still shilling this hard for this piece of garbage movie.

I know you guys didn't like it, but when I point out that you're retarded, it isn't because someone's paying me, it's because you're fucking retarded.

>Hurf durf, dumbo family shouldn't be inside a building when there's shit blowing up outside. They should be, uhh... Well they're dumb.

>Superman should never ever let anyone die. he should kick the shit out of all the bad guys with one arm tied behind his back and be able to save kittens from trees in the middle of his complete curb stomping of the bad guys.

Your opinions are dumb. I stated quite clearly that the movie had real problems cause they're stupid enough to think dour superman should be followed up by chipper Batman, but you two are just frigging dumb.

Dumber than MoS.

>>87926204
>Why were the first 4996 not enough to have Clark try to put Zod down?

Anon, did you even watch the movie? Clark was trying his best to not only stop Zod but to get him out of town.

>Why was that last contrived random four the final straw?

Because that's the only time Clark had the upper hand and Zod still forced the issue. It was obviously suicide by Superman at that point.

>>87923549

He shouldn't have killed the guy holy shit

If it was ACTUALLY Superman, he would have asked Zod nicely to leave, and then saved a plane from falling out of the sky or something

Instead, we got THE PUNISHER

>>87923549
Because it comes right after the destruction of Metropolis, where Superman only gave a damn about saving Lois. It's why Batman trying to kill Superman because he believed he's a threat to humanity, while recklessly killing civilians and criminals made no sense in Batman v Superman.

Not to mention, the death of Zod and the DCEU equivalent of 9/11 was forgotten by the end of Man of Steel. It was only "addressed" in BvS because of the huge outcry (and negative reviews) that followed the film.

>>87926231
Make the movie for your audience. Who the fuck were they doing this for?

For people who loved Gosh, Lois! type Superman?

For kids going to see a Superman movie for the first time?

For Batman lovers who need some grittier stuff, even though Batman doesn't kill nowadays, either, even saving Joker as usual? Reality had to stop that Joker from returning to kill again.


That last group ain't too large. And a lot realized they were really in the first group after all.

>>87923549
>Clark puts Zod in phantom zone
>Zod screams for mercy/in anger, about how its horrible to be stuck there
>Clark tears up a little and says something like "sorry" or "I have to"
>scene is emotional af
>no one assblasted
Not so hard, huh?

>>87923674
It's almost as if most people think it's a shitty one.

>>87926279
First off, stop, not kill.
Second, the choreography and the fact that neither combatant took damage or injury beyond temporary hit stun makes it come off like Clark ISN'T pushed to his limits.
It's hard to believe the guy's trying his best when his hair isn't even mussed up.

>>87923713
I thought that what looked like Superman killing the three Kryptonians in Superman 2 was really out of character and upsetting when I first saw Superman 2 , too (as a child, on VHS, less than seven years after its theatre release). It's part of why I never really felt as strong a connection to the movies as the comics.

>>87926455
That was the original ending, but Goyer and Snyder were against it.

>"Killing Zod was a big thing and Chris Nolan, originally, said there's no way you can do this," Goyer told the magazine. "That was a change--originally Zod got sucked into the Phantom Zone along with the others and I just felt it was unsatisfying and so did Zack. We started questioning--we talked to some of the people at DC Comics and said, 'Do you think there is ever a way that Superman would kill someone?' And at first they said 'No way, no way,' and we said, 'but what if he didn't have a choice?' Originally Chris didn't even want to let us try to write it and Zack and I said, 'We think we can figure out a way that you'll buy it.'"

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/06/17/man-of-steel-christopher-nolan-opposed-the-ending-dc-comics-advised-on-it/

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I found that this movie tried to do too many things which is par for the course with DCEU movies. Superman killing someone is a concept that could be the basis of an entire movie. Just like his origin story, an Alien Invasion and an attempt to revive krypton. So they jammed this in at the end to try and give the movie more weight. Same as how they killed Superman at the end of BVS.

It's just too early to be doing this with Superman. Establish his morals and then challenge them. I hate the scene. It reeks of someone who dislikes Superman writing Superman. The entire movie does, making Superman so fucking bleak and hopeless. God I fucking hate Snyder Superman.

>>87926541
F-F-F-F-F-F-F-UCKING RETARDS.
God, I hope Goyer will never write anything to DC again and Zack will be fired after JL's flop.

>>87926541
>'We think we can figure out a way that you'll buy it.'
Similarly, shake the virtual camera so violently you literally cannot track anything with your eyes to hide the crappy unbelievable CGI that you won't buy, either.

>>87926541
>at DC Comics and said, 'Do you think there is ever a way that Superman would kill someone?' And at first they said 'No way, no way,'

Those people clearly don't know Superman

>>87926577
saved.

>>87926400
>Make the movie for your audience. Who the fuck were they doing this for?

I guess we can just ignore the people who have been going to grim comic book movies for the last twenty years now because that's obviously not the answer you're looking for.

>>87926481
>Clark ISN'T pushed to his limits.

So all those times he tried to move the fight out of the city he was just holding back. Sure thing. We'll just imagine that Clark was just faking the struggle until the very end if it'll make you think worse about him.

>>87926632
>>87926577
Cracked stole that from us.

>>87926647
Yes but what percentage of those people were clamoring for this kind of thing? Who sighed and sat back and said, "Finally! I feel satisfied with the ethical dilemma Superman faced and was tired of him happily saving the day."

Is that cohort really large?

>city gets obliterated?
Time to make out with Lois!
>killing the man that tried to genocide everyone you ever knew?
WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!

Superman didn't act human at all in this movie

>>87926690
The movie is disjointed emotionally because they come up with moments and do not organically build to them.

>>87926802

You can't make this shit up

>>87926685
>Yes but what percentage of those people were clamoring for this kind of thing?

668 million dollars worth. I don't know how to put that into a percent of these groups that you're trying to pretend don't go see superman movies.

>"Finally! I feel satisfied with the ethical dilemma Superman faced and was tired of him happily saving the day."

I've stated quite clearly that, and I'll repeat for the third time for the dudes in the cheap seats, that dour superman is only slightly less retarded than some of the posters in this thread.

>>87926690
>Time to make out with Lois!

What's catharsis precious?

>Superman didn't act human at all in this movie

You aren't very good at making that call obviously since you don't think people who go through a transformative experience will latch on to each other for comfort nor that people might get very upset for having to kill someone even if it's completely justified.

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>>87926931
And it could have been a lot more, maybe, if it wasn't the only game in town with Superman slapped on it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiGZXhs9V9s&t=200


This will never happen: "Member when Superman learned to kill?" "I member!"

Personally Im fine with the scene and it provided a situation in which Clark had to cut all ties with Krypton and further strengthen his belief never killing (again). HOWEVER what really kills this is the fucking drone comedy shit that immediately followed

>>87926931

>668 million dollars worth. I don't know how to put that into a percent of these groups that you're trying to pretend don't go see superman movies.

Are you stupid? It was a blockbuster summer movie. The gross majority of people seeing these movies are casuals who only know the bare minimum about Superman and will gleefully stuff their faces because they don't know any better. This doesn't help your argument in the slightest

>>87927182

>I will strengthen my firm belief of not killing by snapping the neck of this man before me

That doesn't add up, fampai

>>87924822

Warner Brothers reacts to criticism and success, but always misses the reasons behind the criticism and success.

The Dark Knight was Grimdark and successful, so let's make Superman grimdark, too!

Oh no, people don't like how dark Man of Steel was, let's make lighter, quip-filled movies kind of like Marvel does, with our biggest star: Batman.

Batman's defining character trait is that he dresses like a bat to fight crime and is super serial about it. Nolanverse Batman was. Adam West Batman was. Lego Batman was. DCU Batman was. Brave and the Bold, every incarnation of Batman that's acheived any level of success, Batman took himself really seriously.

If you want to make funny scenes with Batman, he's the ultimate straight man because he's so serious all the time. But Marvel characters quip, and Marvel movies make money, so now Batman quips because all Warner Brothers can do is copy. They have no love or even understanding of the characters or why anyone would like them.

>>87927225
>The gross majority of people seeing these movies are casuals

The goal posts, they're a moving.

>Who wants to see this movie, blah blah blah.

...

>Oh and casuals don't count.

Actually anon, they do count. Apparently they count up to over a half billion dollars.

>>87923549
Some people just flat out don't want Superman to kill. That's their picture of Superman. It's not mine, but I get why they have it. In the situation he was in in the film, I get why he did it.

Some people feel like the film itself didn't earn that scene. They felt it was forced. Again, disagree, but I can see why.

>>87923561

Yeah. All Superman had to do was slap some cuffs on Zod. Easy. R-right?

>>87923549

Because people didn't read comics and don't know that Superman killed zod and that led to him forming his no-kill policy. But then you explain that and they think that a personal tragedy is never allowed in a superhero movie. People would prefer a dance off.

>>87923549
If Superman, who is the last embodiment of what's good and pure (at least for DC comics), suddenly kills someone, there's going to be a lot of "Why didn't he fly them away, or use any one of a dozen ways out of that." And even though Supes snaps Zod's neck, what does he say about it? Nothing, just inarticulate yelling. We needed more information. Did Superman figure out what to do only afterwards? How would critics reacted if he'd said "Oh god I've gotten so powerful that _other_ kryptonians_ are snapping and breaking in my arms like so many potato chips!" or "I was trying to point his head in another direction and... and (sob)!" We needed to know _why_ Zod's neck broke.

>>87927862
Did Superman killed Zod in any GOOD modern comic?

>>87927908
>Did Superman killed Zod in any GOOD modern comic?

Does it matter? I think comics movies shouldn't be shackled with only doing things that they do in comics. It's a different medium and should tell different stories.

>>87927949
Why should they named heroes after sourse matherial ones then? If they're completely different and shitty? Name him Edgeman and let him do whatever you want. If you want to adapt Superman, take good stories of him then.

>>87926514
the extended cut shows that they were picked up by the police, showing that even when loved by the public at large, you still need the full edition

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>>87926802

Holy shit

>>87927733

I never said casuals don't count. In the context of >>87926685, they don't help your argument

>>87927989
>Why should they named heroes after sourse matherial ones then?

Calm down lad. Because it's a Superman story, but those movies don't have to be a pointless retread of something that happened in a comic book.

>If they're completely different and shitty?

With a certain kind of nerd different *is* shitty. But those nerds are impossible to please and it's never been worth the effort to even try.

>Name him Edgeman

The universal sign for the /co/ guys who have bad opinions about superman stuff? The word "Edge." Look for it, you'll see that you guys leave that word scattered all over the very worst Superman opinions everywhere you go.

>>87928196
>they don't help your argument

The guy asked where all these people were that wanted this movie. Well that money didn't fall out of the heavens.

LIke I siad, I don't have an imaginary poll to check from but enough people wanted this movie. Enough people went to the theater and watched it. You guys are saying there's no audience but the box office proves that's a lie.

Didn't we make an entire animated movie about how Superman is too nice to kill?

If you're going to fuck up Superman's character and have him kill people, couldn't you at least have him do it BEFORE he destroys a whole city? Y'know, actually save more people than he lets die?

>>87928211
>pointless retread of something that happened in a comic book.
That's what MoS was. Bad mix of few questionable stories of Superman, which is poorly compatible together.
>nerds are impossible to please
Marlel fans don't cry about MCU much. Most of them happy. I haven't seen people bitching much about Nolanverse either.

>>87928237

Casuals would settle for any kind of Superman movie, because it's Superman. Whether they liked it once the movie was over is irrelevant, but you're both underestimating and overestimating their presence in this situation

I'm not even saying there's no audience. There's a small minority who wanted exactly this, and they were gleeful from beginning to end. But to think that casuals went into this movie with those exact same expectations, rather than a mindless summer blockbuster in the same vein as Transformers, you're off your gourd

>>87928261
>couldn't you at least have him do it BEFORE he destroys a whole city?

So you think Superman should kill first and not as a last resort. Wow.

>>87928355
If he's gonna do it anyway, do it the smart way.

>>87928345
>That's what MoS was.

And that's not the subject. The guy asked if something had been done in comics and I said that I don't think it matters.

Those numbers? They help you follow the conversation. They're not just for getting crazy doubles.

>>87928346
>Casuals would settle for any kind of Superman movie

And comics fans don't count because there's a: very few of you and b: you guys steal shit instead of buying it.

Casuals set the trends. Casuals matter. Nerds do not. Nerds did this to themselves by the way.

>I'm not even saying there's no audience.

Well, that's not what the conversation said. Paraphrasing:

>no one wants this movie, not Donner fans, and not Batman fans and there are no other movie goers somehow.

Well?

>>87928261
>Y'know, actually save more people than he lets die?
It's Snyderverse, mate. Superman is curse to the planet here. He caused thousands deaths and billions dollars of damage. He is literally responsible for every bad thing we've seen on the screen.

>>87928365
>If he's gonna do it anyway

So you guys think Superman woke up that morning and said, I'm going to kill someone today. lol

In the movie on the other hand, as opposed to the things you imagined happened, he was as cornered as the family he saved. He killed Zod as a last resort.

>>87928413
>Casuals set the trends. Casuals matter.

Casuals want to be entertained. The money difference between TDK and TDKR is due to the fact that the movie wasn't as entertaining (e.g. no Ledger) - you can't say it's Joker, since Suicide Squad made far less than TDKR, and BUTTLOADS less than TDK.

Likewise, the money difference between BvS and Civil War (or Ultron) can also be assigned to casuals not being entertained. Not enough to talk it up, to give it good scores, to tell friends to go see it, to watch it a third, fourth, etc.

>>87928413

It's geeks, not nerds.

>no one wants this movie, not Donner fans, and not Batman fans and there are no other movie goers somehow.

Ever dawn on you that he was putting up examples? I have a hard time believing half the movie-goers are just Batman fans

>you guys steal shit instead of buying it

Just because you see that shit on here doesn't mean that's the majority of the community

>>87928442
I think he was in a hard situation in a horribly written movie and had to make a choice.

I would have preferred it way more if he didn't kill anyone. But if he absolutely has to kill someone, he should make the hard choice before the entire city becomes a crater, not after.

>>87928510
>Casuals want to be entertained.

And nerds don't? Do you read the thins you write?

>>87928516
>It's geeks, not nerds.

That's pointless semantics, not a real distinction.

>>87928533
>he should make the hard choice before the entire city becomes a crater, not after.

That's premeditation. Superman killing someone as a last resort is frigging leagues better than a Superman who kills someone as a first resort. He's not frigging Wolverine.

>>87928544

Geeks - Focus on learning all there is about entertainment (sci-fi, video games, comics, etc.)

Nerds - Focus on learning all there is about something that's actually applicable (science, math, history, mechanics, etc.)

It's not that difficult

>>87928557
Superman knew right from the beginning that Zod was a psychopath with all his powers, and he knew how destructive his powers were.

If you're going to have him wait that long before his ultimate decision, you should have him find a way to get around it.

If Superman has to lose the moral high ground, he should at least be able to save the day so efficiently that it doesn't matter.

If the city is going to lie in ruins by the end of the film, Superman should at least keep that moral high ground, finding a way to non-lethally stop Zod.

But the Superman in Synder's movies isn't Superman. He's a manic depressive loser who can't save anyone without whining about how much it sucks. He's not a hero, he's just a movie prop.

>Superman killing someone as a last resort is frigging leagues better than a Superman who kills someone as a first resort.
You're comparing turds here and arguing that water, liquid turds are better than nice, soft, solid turds.

The only acceptable option is Superman not killing anyone. But because this movie was developed by a low-functioning autist, that didn't happen.

>>87928579
>It's not that difficult

It is pointless semantics though.

Semantics - the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text.

>>87928657
>Superman knew right from the beginning that Zod was a psychopath with all his powers

It was never plain that Zod would never give up until the very end. You're using the events at the end and the journey Clark took to get into that position to make that decision as a bunch of givens that he would have had access to at some earlier point and that's just not so. There was no point that Superman would have had enough information necessary to summarily execute the second to last Kryptonian.

To break it down: There was no way to tell that Zod had all his powers, because he just didn't. he couldn't fly, he wasn't as strong, and he couldn't blow shit up by looking at them. He gained them at a rapid pace though, much faster than Clark did. At what point did you expect Clark to know this was going to happen prior to the fight exactly?

There was also no way to tell that Zod was beyond surrender or negotiation until he proved without a doubt that he was. Superman isn't an assassin. He isn't an executioner either. For all he knew he could have hit Zod hard enough to subdue him somehow along the way. Killing was only on the table when it was at the point where he had to either do that or watch a family fry.

To use a real world example: You can protect yourself from a dude in a fist fight al day long, but if you skip the fight to kill him because you did the math beforehand, you've just committed murder.

what about a movie where batman and superman, after a brief misunderstanding, they quickly learn that their methods and beliefs may be different, but they both have the best interests of the people at heart and team up to fight a greater threat

>>87926931
>668 million dollars worth.
I'm about $30 of that and I thought the movie sucked ass.
Box office doesn't actually mean everyone loved the movie. It just means they paid to see it. There's no real good metric for buyer's remorse on the price of admission.

>>87928973
>It was never plain that Zod would never give up until the very end.
Define "very end" because Zod made it pretty clear right when the fight started. At the latest. I'm wagering it was pretty clear to most of the audience after the whole "bury Clark in skulls" thing.

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>>87926931
>668 million dollars worth.
This anon is right >>87929723

To put you in perspective, DEADPOOL is selling more DVD's than a movie with SUPERMAN FIGHTING BATMAN AND CAMEO OF WONDERWOMAN - to add to it no fucking body cared that Superman died.

Three of the most iconic heroes of the world are selling less than Deadpool.

I think its pretty clear that it isnt the movie that people wanted.

>>87923674

Superman literally does not kill.

Literally period.

>>87923713

Zod didnt die. He was taken away by Canadian police

>>87927862
>Because people didn't read comics and don't know that Superman killed zod and that led to him forming his no-kill policy.
Jesus Christ the dumb in this post actually hurts my brain.
Let's break it down point by point, shall we?
Superman's "no-kill policy" existed long before the comic in question was written. John Byrne wanted to push Superman to his limits so he wrote Superman going to a "pocket universe" where he believed Zod & co had killed everyone else in the universe and he was alone to be judge, jury and executioner. It was a badly written and received story, but at least there was a coherent point to it - are you willing to put your values temporarily on hold for justice if there's no other option - but idiots like you latched onto the out-of-context panel of the execution itself and began to repost them endlessly as "proof" that Superman loves to mur-diddly-urder.

>>87924038

There's always another way without resorting to killing

Superman ALWAYS finds another way. Always.

>>87928973

It's not semantics because that implies that the terms are synonymous. It's like calling an orange a veggie, then when someone calls you out on it, you just shrug it off with "they're both food"

>>87929931
Obviously not, if people who get butthurt about Zod being killed come up with dumb solutions such as "cover his eyes." If you want a hero who always succeeds there's plenty of fanfiction out there with infallible Marty Stus. But there's nothing "inspirational" or whatever about a dude who can only stick to his ideals because the plot makes it so convenient for him to do so.

>>87930013
There's nothing inspirational about Snyderman either though. He's the plot's bitch; constantly directed and reactionary to the whims of other characters.

He can't choose to save his dad because the plot says no. He can't choose to have friends as a kid because the plot says no. He can't choose when to unveil himself, or if she should kill, or if he should actually try and connect with people and assuage their fears, or save his mom wihout Bruce's help, or not die.

He's just a big sponge for suffering and believe or not that is NOT inspirational or admirable when it's all you are. That's just pathetic.

>>87923549
Because "not muh".

I don't really care for Man of Steel, thought it was ok but still forgettable. However, anyone who criticizes it (or any capeshit movie for that matter) because it's "not like muh comics" should be instantly ignored. It's an elseworlds and another medium, it can be good without being 100% like your picture books. "Not muh" is not a real criticism.

>>87927949
You think wrong

>>87930013

It's not butthurt. Its a valid, rational point of view.

Superman doesn't kill. Period. End of discussion. This is not up for debate.

>>87930033
It also has nothing to do with people crying for three years about a fictional character offing a bad guy. Man of Steel has plenty of flaws; "muh tone" or "muh perfect protag" isn't one of them.

Also, everything you listed had some actual reason for why the character did what he did, as opposed to, "Zod stands down, against all internal logic because the author doesn't want the main character to kill."

>>87930059
You don't even need to read comics to know this isn't true. Just read the first post in the thread.

>>87930077
>Also, everything you listed had some actual reason for why the character did what he did
Yes. Other character tell him to do things and he goes along with it. Saying the character lacks agency is not the same thing as saying there's no reason.

And frankly I don't give a shit about Clark being perfect or him killing. He's just a bland, unlikable cipher, that's the real problem. Snyder is too obsessed with broad archetypes examinations and metatextual references to actually make the characters likable.

You can have a high concept movie and a darker tone and still charm audiences. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

But you're going to keep insisting it's all about the no kill code or some shit like that because that's an easier argument to win. Go ahead and whine about Donner again. That's always fun.

>>87925131
You are aware that none of the destruction was Superman's fault right?

>>87928544
>nerds don't

I do read the THINS I write.

Whether we're talking nerds or geeks, someone who is (by definition of the fact that we're not describing them as casuals, duh) a fan of the source material wants to be ENTERTAINED and also wants the entertainment to come WITH either fidelity OR respect to the source material - understanding that some folks want fidelity to what they perceive to be their version of source material that had multiple writers and editors and which may vary greatly from the original concept, particular for Golden Age material like Superman and Batman. And understanding that some of these people can accept a different take on the canon, assuming said take isn't just a jumble of canon Easter Eggs thrown against a wall to see what sticks, passed off as entertainment.

And again, if you actually read what I THINS, you would have comprehended that I meant that people - fans AND casuals, didn't find BvS or MoS as entertaining as other movies in the same exact genre released in and around the same time frame.

Which is why these two films didn't make as much money in ticket sales as those they can be compared to (including comparing them to DC related IP) NOR in Bluray/DVD sales.

>>87930120
He didn't even say it was.
Even if Clark is absolutely blameless (and I don't agree that he was) the Zod fight was still a long slog of destruction porn that went on at least five minutes longer than it needed to considering how ineffectual they were on each other.

It was like watching a fighting game in training mode when I was paying to see the EVO grand finals. If the life bars don't decrease there's just no point.

>>87923549
unsupemanly.

>>87925328

top kek

>>87930035
>make an adapatation of an existing character
>remove everything that people like about said character
>complain about people not liking it

Do you know the term " adaptation in name only?"

Morrisson managed to make a fucking nazi Superman, and still stay close to the roots of the character.

What I don't get is why the "does Superman kill or not" question is posed as a binary thing.
I mean, sure, Zod needed to be stopped from eyebeaming people, but couldnt' Supes just have ripped his eyes out or something? Or just try and point his head somewhere else; surely if you have enough control of his head to break his neck, you have enough control to turn his head.
Actually that reminds me, how does breaking Zod's neck stop him from shooting eye beams? Wouldn't it just paralyze him from the neck down and leave him to asphyxiate? He'd still easily have 20 seconds of eye lasers left (assuming Kryptonians work like mammals).

>>87930013
but Zod's murder and Clark scream and pain isn't inspirational at all, it's a sad tale of reality about how you are forced to do things you don't want to do because there's no other choice

him destroying the kryptonian ship and accepting Earth and humanity as his new home inspirational

>>87924038
how about covering Zod's fucking eyes?
hmmm?
how 'bout that?

>>87926802

>"whoah... whoops"

Option A: kill him in the first place if your movieverse is going to be edgier cause the fight itself killed a shitton of people and made Supes look like a tool
Option B: don't kill him and nobody bitches

And for anyone saying he did this shit in the comics, yes, he did kill Zodd, and then he had a complete mental breakdown and got a murderer off death row to cope with the crippling guilt. Cause as it turns out he's really not okay with killing.

>>87930290
A better question is

Why is a guy engineered from conception to be the perfect soldier...
...with all the powers of Superman...
...that has supposedly had the upper hand for the entirety of their fight (otherwise Clark could've ended it sooner)...
...completely unable to escape a headlock?

A headlock, by the way, being done by a guy that's never fought a day in his life for 30 years up until just before then. It's amazing Clark didn't punch with his thumb inside his fist.

>>87930400
locks are called locks for a reason

>>87925767
>Still on the hate bandwagon for this movie

>>87930431
Locks preclude your opponent being able to fucking FLY.

>>87930462
you being able to fucking fly precludes your opponent being able to fucking fly precluding locks

>>87930469
Which should be precluded by superior training.
Hell, I can google how to escape a headlock and it gives instructions in four easy steps.

>>87923549
People expected a nice, happy Christoper Reeves Superman and not a Superman who was forced to kill to save people

>>87930482
that you believe the steps are easy demonstrates profound retardation

>>87930511
well, I'm sure that if I were a part of the soldier cast and trained from birth they'd become easy.

>>87929910
Except for that time he killed Zod in the comics. Which is literally the reason why he doesn't kill.

Literally period.

>>87930585
>>87929921

>>87930392
He clearly isn't okay with it in MoS either.

>>87930625
My main point still stands.

why do you keep making pro-Snyder posts.
You know virtually everyone universally hates these movies you baiting queer.

>>87926481
> the fact that neither combatant took damage or injury beyond temporary hit stun

Not that guy, but that same thing happened in BvS when Batfleck beat the shit out of Supes and when they were all facing Doomsday and getting rekt. They somehow can't into battle damage.

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>>87923549

>>87930706
RT audience and IMDB score would be lower if this was the case, and the fact that this is like a daily debate here, for three years, should clue you into the fact that this isn't the case. But that shouldn't matter:

>why do you guys like this thing when the masses don't like it
Only on /co/. I'd take /a/'s blatant contrarianism over this level of retardation. At least it motivates them to dig into obscure shit so that they actually know what they're talking about. /co/ doesn't read comics because the masses think comics are for nerds.

>>87930780
This occurred right after he killed Mxyzptlk. It's like people are posting this panel because they saw it on /co/ without having any knowledge of where it actually comes from.

>>87930786
You only need one autist or baiter to have daily debates.

Superman should not kill, or at least not in his origin movie. Or at least not in an origin movie in which his father figure preaches how he can overcome the flaws of mankind and guide them to a better future.
Him killing Zod just shows that, when push comes to shove, he's no Superman. Just a regular guy who will react the same as any other regular guy, only with alien powers.
It simply contradicts the narrative the writers themselves were pushing up to that point.

>>87930811
You can't seriously believe that can you? That half of the posts in these three hundred post thread, all of which are conveniently the ones that disagree with your viewpoint, are being made by the same guy? For three years?

If you do you're too dumb to save. You probably think that every defender of this film, on every site, throughout the entirety of the Internet, is the same guy as well.

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>>87930805

Oh, okay.

After he used lethal force against an enemy of overwhelming power and evil with no obvious options, he stripped himself of all his powers.

Anyway, the nerds are angry about MoS because Superman should not kill. It's emotional.

>>87930843

I think he means 'to spark off debates like this'.

>>87930828
>Just a regular guy who will react the same as any other regular guy

This is what he should be. He was never supposed to be some sort of god. He was conceived as a mouthpiece for what two Jewish guys would do if they had superpowers, and in general has a more down to Earth background than the like of Batman. Raised on a farm in a two parent home with a modest income, went to a regular high school, and has a 9 to 5 like anyone else. He's a farmboy who tries to do the best he can with what he has; the best rep of what an actual god should be like is Manhattan, who doesn't particular favor humankind over anything else because he doesn't identify with it.

>>87930901
>Superman should be stupid redneck
I hear ya, Zack.

>>87930843
Not by the same guy. Just similar baiters.
The posts defending the movie even in this thread are the minority; people defending it outside of /co/ are even less, and the only counterargument to that they have is about 700m worth of people got suckered by inspirational trailers to watch it.

It sucked so bad the studio even reversed Batman's characterization in following movies and made him quirky. What does that tell you.

>>87930901
>what if he's just a guy, who wants to do the right thing
i dunno about you, but that guy probably had the most realistic reaction to superman

>>87930901
Not if the movie tells you he'll be something better. And especially not if you don't at least make the character acknowledge that he cannot live up to those expectations.
none of which happens.

>>87930786
I, undoubtedly, know more about comics than you, and Superman most assuredly.
The movie sucks cocks, and you're a faggot.
You presumptuous jackass.

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>>87930916
He's not stupid, but yeah, he grew up in nowhere, Kansas on a literal farm, and in Post-Crisis stuff played on his high school's varsity team. Lois calls him "Smallville." His deepest fantasy, if Krypton actually had survived is to basically become Johnathon Kent amongst a planet of hyper-advanced Kryptonian scientists.

>>87926231
>Being this retarded
Eat shit, you smug cunt.

>>87930786
>RT audience and IMDB score would be lower
It's lower than ANY CAPESHIT score already. Except absolutely disgusting FF. Fucking Antman has higher scores than any DCEU film, for fuck's sake

>>87923791
shilling

>>87931002
hey now, Ant-man was really good, man

>>87930971
>implying you read comics
Then why are you reading comics? People don't like comics and you can only like things that other people like.

>>87930993
>He's not stupid
>Zod sends message
>Goes to visit church and some useless priest
>Not goes to visit his goddamn kryptonian father who could answer who Zod and his crew are and how to defeat them before thousands die.
>Not stupid at all.

>>87931007
Ant-man is definition of generic quipfest flick. It's like low-cost ironman movie.

>>87931010
>Moves goalpost
>Continues to shill
Smug Snyder shills begone.

>>87931036
And that's better than high budget transformers?

>>87931053
>moves goalpost

I mentioned that your retarded logic would preclude reading anything as obscure as comics in the first post I made.

>>87931023
You're starting too late. You should start with
>He's not stupid
>Willing to let his own father die rather than risk discovery, because something bad MIGHT happen.
>Breaks into an alien ship that's being studied by the literal military
>Turns it on, starts pushing random button because what could possibly go wrong?

>>87931065
Transofrems is trash no matter how high budget is. Antman is still shit anyway.

>>87931036
its simple story was actually a draw for me, it keeps the focus on the character interactions and the wonder of shrinking to the size of an ant. it doesnt give a discourse on morality, but that is apples and oranges, it is more of a heroic science-fantasy, so you would be giving it traits that would bog down what makes it so appealing in the first place
as for quips, as hard as it may be for you to understand, i thought they were pretty good
it's really a matter of opinion, so there really isnt much to argue about, but i thought that they didnt skimp on the parts that really mattered, good heroes, good action, and a lot of fun

>>87931099
You misunderstand. I'm calling Man of Steel a high budget Transfomers.

>>87931126

Snyder is better than Bay.

>>87931183
References aren't better.

>>87931111
I'm just tired of seeing the same formula movie over and over again. That's why IM is good, because it was first and looked good. WS is good, because it has different style and decent action and GotG is ok (it could be good if not DANCE OFF xDxD) because of interesting new view.
>>87931126
Despite fact that MoS is terrible adaptation, it's still okay action movie, and even above average for capeshit. Transformes are trash.

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>>87929921

Aww, he thinks he's right because he didn't like the comic. Look how he talks down to people he doesn't agree with. And look at that horrible reading comprehension. And I bet he linked back to his own post like he was the authority on this.

Superman killed because he thought he had no other choice but hated it so much he formed his no-kill policy. It's character growth through personal tragedy, something hardcore Superman fans REALLY hate. Zod's death was even used against him later when Zed appeared and claimed to be Zod. Superman accidentally killed him, too.

Because Superman doesn't kill REEEEEE
People think that's why they don't like it but they really don't like it because it was the finale to a movie that didn't give them what they wanted out of a Superman movie. MoS was dark bleak and hopeless despite it apparently believing that had a message of hope. The whole movie was just putting Superman in a light they never wanted to see him in, topped off with him being forced to kill the villain because he saw no other way to stop him.

>>87923549
complain about nerds but posts on /co/

>>87923549
If you have to ask than just go back to /tv/

>>87923549
It wasn't that it happened that was the issue, it was the execution.
>Superman is barely established, so the idea of him having to take the measure of ending a life has far less weight than if it happened later
>The actual event happens, but then the tone completely alters right after the event, which fucks up the entire gravity of the situation
>Due to the forced nature of the film, the scene seems very much like an attempt to hit check boxes in the "this is for adults" category.

>>87931212
>Despite fact that MoS is terrible adaptation, it's still okay action movie, and even above average for capeshit. Transformes are trash.

Everything they wanted to do action wise was done better in Matrix Revolutions a decade before, only with more actual impact because it wasn't two infinite life invincible bricks smashing against each other with camera shakes to imply force.

Transformers was chaotic but at least the combatants got hurt and you felt there was a risk of your favorite character dying. Man of Steel's action was just just empty flash without substance.

>>87930035

>It's an elseworlds and another medium

Even from a business standpoint, that's a stupid idea. They're unintentionally limiting their potential by making Supes grimdark like Batman

>it can be good without being 100% like your picture books

If it were good, we wouldn't be here right now

I dont have a problem with Supes killing Zod, I have a problem with the wanton mayhem and destruction that went about in their fight, and the fact that all of it was blamed on Superman.

>>87931909
Perfectly described.

It would be the equivalent of making a Batman movie where Batman was a bright, cheerful idiot who couldn't even add one and one

I loved MoS, then I hated it, then I loved it, now I just like it.

There were a lot of nitpicks I could make, things I would change, but as a movie for its own worth, it's pretty decent. My main bitch points boil down to three things.

The Jesus imagery. Fucking christ, man.

Pa Kent telling him maybe he should have let the children drown. I get what they were trying to express, but it was fucking stupid. As a bonus, the tornado scene was equally dumb.

The retarded krypto-DNA thing. That entire plot didn't need to be rationalized like that. There were a billion ways of making Zod the villain better than what we got.

Those things aside, I liked most of the rest of the movie. I liked the Krypton stuff. I liked the fact that Lois was just Ms. Exposition and it didn't turn into a romantic drama like fucking Superman Returns. I liked how it sped through the origin story and only slowed down to show us bits we either needed to see or hadn't often seen already, like the intro with Krypton. As an alternate universe Superman movie (which it is, it's not 'canon' or anything, except to the DCCU), it's fiiiiiine.

Though what I really wanted out of it was a sequel focusing on soldier guy and kryptonian bitch having wacky antagonistic adventures in an alternate dimension or some shit. They were the best parts of the whole movie.

>>87929741
>Zod made it clear

So you think that summary execution should be on the table any time someone talks shit? Man, you guys are really the worst possible superman fans.

>>87937487
This is other reason for why people hate snyderfags, prejudice developed out of your need to generaliza anyone who say something that you don't like.

You are a stupid person.

>>87929723
The box office means there was an audience which clearly rebuts the "no one wanted this movie" argument. But I should be used to you guys moving goal posts every time someone replies.

The DCEU is so shit that I actually look back fondly on MoS now

>>87929931
>>87930059
>>87930033

mother fucker, Superman killed Zod IN THE COMICS and killed a giant sun alien in All Star Superman, and lobotomized a british person in Whatever Happened To Truth Justice And the American Way.


Dont be such a goddamn pleb.

>>87929769
>Deadpool... Wonderwoman

The 668 million was MoS numbers. It was also in reply to an argument that there was "no audience" for this kind of superman movie. That's obviously false.

Avatar made over twice as much money as MoS. Loads of movies made more money. But no matter how you twist it, saying something made twice as much doesn't make the other amount zero no matter how much you play with the numbers.

Arguing with you guys, broken down.

>there's no money in this box.

>Look. There's a quarter right there?

>Doesn't count, because I have a dollar in my pocket! Shill!

>>87930059
>not up for debate

You don't get to decide that.

>>87930136
>pointless semantics

So you're branching out from that to pointing out typoes? Good on you lad.

>>87937517
>Snyderfags

Just cause I'm calling you guys stupid doesn't mean I particularly liked the movie. It had all sorts of problems. Superman having to kill someone was not one of them.

But I know there's dudes on here who can only argue by lumping everyone they disagree with into this mythical pot of paid contrarians. It's like talking to flat Earthers. If you can't accept a common reality, argument is impossible.

>>87923549
Nerds have to be assblasted by *something* at all times, no matter how small, or else they die.
It's the simplest explanation for every case of this behavior. Otherwise you'd think they would eventually find something better to do.

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>"Hurr, heroes who kill are disgraces to the word hero and make things seem cynical and bleak."
Um...No. Heroes who kill are the only real competent ones and them killing to make the world a better place is much more inspiring then taking a murderous clown or bald asshole to jail so they can easily escape and kill more innocents.

>>87938087
I think it's more than in a series of life and death struggles the thought that no one ever has to kill the other guy in self defense or in defense of another is ludicrously unrealistic. Nerds have gotten so used to this level of complete bullshit though that they break down when someone shows them something with a little real and expected consequence.

They don't even realize how childish they sound when they argue against it.

>B-but Santa would never forget to bring a child a present. Not ever ever.

>*pouts*

>>87923549
I've thought about it, and I think I've figured it out. See, Superman kills Zod in both the old Christopher Reeve movies and the comics, not to mention in both of those cases Zod was depowered and no longer an active threat where as this Zod was moments from killing a family with his heat vision, so it can't be just him killing Zod that gets people mad, but then I rembered this is 4chan so clearly the reason is becasue the family was black

>>87938087
Kill the Joker and the next guy in line takes his place. You can't destroy evil by killing it.

>>87938087
we can already kill people in real live. we do it all the time.
a hero who can save the day without killing, that's something impressive and inspiring

>>87938087
Literally casual the comment.

What's so funny about truth, justice and the American way? Or if you're too lazy for even that at least watch Superman vs the Elite

>>87938474
>Superman kills Zod in both the old Christopher Reeve movies
But he doesn't.

>>87930879
Exactly. Faggots need to notice how Superman reacted when he actually does kill in the comics. This certainly holds more emotional weight than "I just think he's hot."

>>87939125
Don't forget how he and Lois sucked face on the ashes/corpses of tens of thousands of dead people. What a hero.

>>87926231
>>87931004

There wasn't emotional weight in Man of Steel because Superman barely spoke. He needed to try very hard to take the fight someplace else, beg Zod to stop, try anything possible to make him stop and kill him as a last resort and be shaken and upset and emotional afterwards for longer than just that scene.

Zack Snyder knew that Superman would kill when pushed and used that as green light for him to end the fight as he did and because he didn't take heroes in tights seriously, he didn't think the audience would either.

When aren't nerds assblasted about something

>>87939367
>He needed to try very hard to take the fight someplace else, beg Zod to stop, try anything possible to make him stop and kill him as a last resort and be shaken and upset and emotional afterwards

But he did all that? I don't like the scene for other reasons, but the ones you stated directly contradict what's shown in the movie. It looks like the only complaint that stands is that he should have been sad for a longer time.

>>87939439
The Superman we saw wasn't very emotional at all and it made it hard to empathize with him because of that, especially when they pushed the Christ allegory so hard.

>>87924819
>So he has to take a character that was founded on hope, doing the right thing, responsible use of power, and that doing the right thing ultimately works out because crime doesn't pay, and turn that story into a cautionary tale about the stupidity and fruitlessness of helping others, charity, and self sacrifice.
And you aren't even guessing, this is what Snyder said he believes.

>>87939477
You know howI know you might be autismal? He was dour and sad through the entire movie, and you managed to miss all of it.

>>87939268
Nerds don't understand catharsis volume #37

>>87938833
You guys think and argue with conics. One good mini story debunking the Wildstorm's grimdark doesn't make "too good and pure to kill" any less retarded.

Let me put this into terms you might understand: Watch some Southpark, and maybe you'll see that the truthcan be, you know, somewhere in the middle.*

*on occasion.

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>>87923791
Because "Normies like Marvel movies" which means if you want to be "intelligent" or "not a pleb" you claim to like objectively flawed movies more than they deserve in order to maintain your smug sense of superiority for not enjoying a bunch of films that were designed to be enjoyable if nothing else.

I quite like Man of Steel and didn't hate BvS or Suicide Squad as much as some, but defending Snyder and pretending BvS in particular is in anyway an objectively good film has evolved from people who were just shitposting or who didn't mind it as much as most into people who've fucking drank the kool aid and think that it is legitimately a fantastic film.

>>87923549
cause the real superman wouldn't have let it happen or he would've covered his eyes with his hand or fly up or suplex him or leaned back in a 45 degree angle or lean forward or turn around or cut a piece of the wall for them to escape the movie went for realistic but realistically a ten year old could've gotten out of this situation

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>>87930585
except when a guy has a gun to lois then he's almost obliged to throw him in to multiply brick walls killing him instantly right

>>87930488

Here's the thing: Superman being forced to kill in order to save people would have had far more weight if Superman had been an established presence in the world prior to Zod's invasion.

Think about it this way: If Batman had killed during his first couple of nights as Batman, it would've meant nothing. But Batman doing it after having become an established presence in Gotham would carry more weight because of the boundaries of his vigilantism. The people of Gotham wouldn't see him as a murderous thug who dressed up like a bat, but as a man trying to do good who ultimately snapped.

That's the big issue with Superman killing in MoS: His "no killing" rule had never been established as a part of his moral code. Zod couldn't be an "exception" to a rule that didn't exist. The story never established Superman as a hero who never kills. The moment held no weight as a result.

I can accept a Superman who, when no other viable options exist, has to kill someone for the sake of protecting others. But that killing has to hold some sort of narrative weight. It has to be meaningful. MoS put it in there to show us a "conflicted" Superman...who appears to have shrugged off the fact that he killed Zod in the very next scene.

>>87940084
>because REEEEEEEE

when you talk like /r9k/ no one is going to treat you like a human.

>>87926802
god forbid he stuck out his arm or his feet or just sighed

>>87940124

>Superman
>suplex

Brock vs Kal-El: Who wins?

>>87940124
>cover his eyes

As if that wouldnt get his fingers blown off. You guys act as if Zod couldn't hurt Clark. It's weird.

>>87926577
This

Have you seen interviews with zack Synder about BVS? He doesn't understand the characters at all.

>>87940171
You act as if Superman movies have to explain all the rules of being Superman. They don't. They don't have to explain what Superman can and will do any more than Bond movies have to explain what a spy is or does.

>>87923561
Are you saying the assblast wasn't justified or the neck snap wasn't justified?

>>87940182
If you think that "normies" liking something doesn't colour 4chans opinion on it then more power to you my friend, but you'd be wrong.

>when you talk like /r9k/ no one is going to treat you like a human.

Which would be why I put it in quotation marks as opposed to taking such statements seriously.

>>87940032
Snyderfags don't understand tone and emotional weight and basically any filmmaking concepts at all volume infinity

>>87935591
Stupid Batman yes. Cheery Batmans have been done before though.

>>87923549
It was the final nail in the coffin of that gloomy over produced shit-show of a movie.

Superman could have just grabbed him by the back of the head, twisted his arm, and slammed his face into the ground. The muscles the work toward resisting that move are weaker than the muscles delivering it. Even at a strength advantage, Zod wouldn't have been able to resist it. Dumb scene structure by people who don't know how grappling works.

In the year 3016, people will STILL be having this exact same retarded argument.

>>87940017
It was a gloomy movie, anon, and just about everyone in it acted gloomy. That ain't acting with emotion, that's called underacting because the director is incompetent working with talent.

>>87923549
My question is, why the fuck did Supes snap his neck in the direction of the family?

What a fucking idiot.

>>87940266

>You act as if Superman movies have to explain all the rules of being Superman. They don't.

Of course they don't have to explain "all the rules". MoS was a film franchise reboot, though. It had to establish the kind of Superman the DCEU was going to portray - and that meant establishing Superman's moral code.

For all the whining about "NOT MUH SUPES" that MoS defenders do, they don't seem to care about how MoS did nothing to give the "Superman kills" moment any weight.

>>87940324
>Zod wouldn't have been able to resist it

Look at all these jui-jutsu masters trying to explain how they'd have used their yellow belt skilz to totally stop Zod from frying that one family. So all Clark had to do was keep following your sensei's direction and he could have completely manhandled that lifelong born and bred soldier from killing anyone else for the rest of fucking time...

because when exactly do you think Zod was going to quit trying to BBQ humans exactly?

I also think human knowledge of leverage means jack and shit when you're talking about two guys to whom gravity is at best a minor rounding error to the forces they have at their command.

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>>87940266
That's fine, but they've so far shown Superman kill Zod and kill Doomsday.

Par for the course, justifiable stuff.

But they also showed him seconds from blasting lex away with his heat vision, if not for the old "I got yer mum" trick.

It is going to beg the question at some point as to why Superman doesn't just kill his foe.

Yes you can justify why he killed Zod and why he killed Doomsday, but ultimately all it is is justifications that the films don't really grapple with in any real way. Is Superman bothered by the fact he had to kill Zod? We don't know. He doesn't mention it. He's clearly bothered by whether or not he should be a hero because of all the destruction in Metropolis, but never as to whether it was right he took the action he did.

>>87940377
>establishing Superman's moral code.

Remind me again how much Bond movies spend establishing his moral code?

Face it, for well known properties, of which Superman is definitely one, you don't really have to spell out all these kinds of things to the audience. They know it just like they know pretty much what apple pie is going to taste like or what noise a firework is going to make.

>>87940500
>why Superman doesn't just kill his foe.

Superman is still a man, and anyone who won't go to the mat or even kill some dude to protect his mother isn't a man at all.

>>87940531
Again a justification that you are imposing on the film, but not one that the film makes which would be fine if the film hadn't been harping on about how he's a better person who can lead humans into the sun and all that shit.

>>87940568
>Again a justification that you are imposing on the film

No, I'm imposing that on any red blooded American Male. If you have any balls at all and some dude shows you a picture of them fucking your mom up and you don't immediately at least consider ripping their fucking head off you're obviously from another planet.

A planet that's undoubtedly full of complete pussies.

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>>87926802
god forbid he stuck out his arm or his feet or just sighed

>>87940513

>Remind me again how much Bond movies spend establishing his moral code?

They do it efficiently enough in a pretty minimal amount of time: He can do pretty much whatever he wants - up to and including rape and murder - in service of his country.

>for well known properties, of which Superman is definitely one, you don't really have to spell out all these kinds of things to the audience

And yet, when people say things like this on /co/, they get "NOT MUH SUPES" counterarguments. They get told "IT'S NOT YOUR SUPERMAN, GET OVER IT". Did the film need to establish Superman's moral code in a way that would give Zod's death some actual weight because MoS!Superman is "NOT MUH SUPES", or did it need to ignore all that precisely because Superman is such a cultural icon? (And regardless of your answer, think about this: Batman Begins and The Dark Knight both turned Batman's "no killing" rule into a plot point that played into each film's events. To make that plot point hold weight, it first had to establish the rule.)

>>87940324
The actual situation was not the point. It was literally a metaphor to convey the moral challenge to the audience. It represents that Zod would keep on killing and destroying as long as he was alive, and that Superman could do everything in his power to prevent it and would just be barely holding him back, and it would go on forever.

So apparently they should have just had Zod say "Superman, I am going to keep killing these people until you join my side!" and then cut to Lois looking up at them and saying to Perry "At this rate Superman will have to fight Zod forever!" and then Superman says "No, Zod! You've forced me into a dilemma with no acceptable answer, so my only choice is to put an end to you!" and then Zod says "No! Superman, you will be betraying your heritage, and by killing me to save Earth, you will be burying your home world of Krypton for good!" and then Superman says "Well Zod, it looks like I've finally snapped!" as he breaks Zod's neck.

>>87940205
he farora covered his eyes and he did it to her she was fine

>>87923549
Because they're nerds.

>>87940667

And the moment held no weight because we'd never seen Superman have to struggle with the idea of killing someone to protect others. We weren't shown scenes of Superman establishing himself as a superhero - even the '79 film did that. The film didn't show Superman having a huge moral quandry over killing Zod because "it was Superman's first day" (as MoS defenders like to point out).

I didn't mind

The crying was just too over the top

Honestly, the tornado scene was the awful one

>>87940664
>"NOT MUH SUPES" counterarguments.

"Not muh" people are both impossible to please and a pleasure to ignore. Fuck 'em.

>>87923549
Because it was supposed to be big moment for Superman(making hard but right choice),but in the very next fucking scene he is O K A Y, Fuck that,Oh and the fact,that their battle destroyed fucking Metropolis,but killing of few people is threat by Zod?

Fuck that movie

>>87940668
>he farora covered his eyes and he did it to her she was fine

Yeah, cause Clark was using those firehose beams that were coming out of Zod's eyes. Do you guys pay attention to this stuff?

>>87923549
I think it would've been better if it was established earlier that he didn't want to kill, making Zod's death more of an impact when he does.

>>87926279
> Anon, did you even watch the movie? Clark was trying his best to not only stop Zod but to get him out of town.
> doing his best

yeah like that moment he dodged a fucking truck with a badass pose instead of impeading it from hiting a fucking bulding

or that moment when he, in the air, hited zod down on little shop

>>87940017
>He was dour and sad through the entire movie
Exactly the emotions I associate with Superman the most!

>>87926279
>Clark was trying his best to not only stop Zod but to get him out of town.
Did we watch the same movie here?

At no point does Superman even attempt to fly Zodd out of the city limits, even when there was a beat in the combat and he could've just lifted Zodd and carry him away.

Then again, if he did that then we wouldn't have had the death scene where he's "forced" to kill Zodd to save a family that Supes put in danger in the first place by launching him into the subway.

>>87941209

MoS!Superman is NOT YOUR SUPES, remember? It's a Superman for a whole new generation! It's a 21st Century Superman, a post-9/11 Superman, a Superman for cynics and people who have given up on ever fixing the world!

He could have flown upward.

>>87928442
It wouldn't have been a last resort if he moved Zod to an unpopulated part of the area in the first place.

At no point does Superman try to stop the damage that Zod is causing, instead he just kinda makes everything worse by being a second bull in the china shop.

>>87940032
Zod wasn't even dead at that point yet and they were making out in a literal crater that used to be a city and people.

Catharsis isn't a bandaid to excuse bad writing and Snyder would know this if he were a good director.

>>87941756

>Catharsis isn't a bandaid to excuse bad writing

NOT MUH FILMMAKING

Snyder knew what he was doing and he pulled it off perfectly. The kiss was exactly what that moment called for.

>>87941812
How about you save the catharsis until AFTER the bad guy is safely dispatched?

Oh right, Zack Snyder can't into writing so it has to happen in a crater, with the dust of thousands of innocent people filling the air, before Supes continues the fight to cause more damage, which ends in a contrived scene just to show Supes killing someone.

Bravo.

>>87941867

>Zack Snyder can't into writing

Only because you can't understand how he broke the paradigm by putting the catharsis before a huge action scene. Only a genius would - could - do it like that and deliver a moment we're still talking about to this day.

Zack Snyder is a filmmaking god.

>>87941933
Snyder is neither the first nor the last filmmaker on the planet to work on a movie like this. And the reason why most of those paradigms are still being used today is because they serve a purpose that makes sense.

If I took a fork out of my kitchen and bent it 90 degrees, it'd be useless as a utensil even if it's now "unique." Snyder's writing follows similar logic, except that someone paid him millions to bend the fork and ruin whatever utility it might've had.

>>87942002

A film isn't a fork, you fucking retard, and Zack Snyder made a fucking masterpiece so you shut your fucking piehole before I shove your bent fork in there.

>>87940667

the writers came up with the story and it's a bad story

when you're a writer you come into lots of situations where the best solution is to scrap a chunk or the whole thing. this is one of those times

superman doesn't accomplish anything or establish himself as representing something. it might as well be a generic disaster film instead of involving superman

>>87926802
Metropolis' """""""savior"""""""

>>87941104

>He got caught up in the fight twice so his other efforts don't count.

Lord, you guys.

>>87941209
>Exactly the emotions I associate with Superman the most!

It's so fun arguing with you guys.

>Superman walked around an emotional zombie, no feelings at all!

Er, he was sad the entire fucking movie?

>See, Superman isn't supposed to be sad, or lose, or let anyone die!

Lord, you fucking guys.

>>87941435
>He could have flown upward.

Jesus.

>>87941537
>It wouldn't have been a last resort if he moved Zod to an unpopulated part of the area in the first place.

Yeah, cause Clark set the pace and staged the fight and Zod had no say at all.

>At no point does Superman try to stop the damage that Zod is causing

Except that part where he snaps his neck, you mean? But then again, look at how nerds react to that.

>>87941756

>Zod wasn't even dead at that point yet and they were making out in a literal crater that used to be a city and people.

>A crater that used to be a city... (dead) people...

...Volume 38

>>87941812
>The kiss was exactly what that moment called for.

My man.

>>87941867
>How about you save the catharsis until AFTER the bad guy is safely dispatched?

The bad guy they thought they just dispatched?

I cant tell if DCEUfags are just shitposting or legit insane anymore. Half the time it sounds like the same guy constantly yelling YOU JUST DONT GET IT over and over. But eh, to each their own

>>87942049
Way to miss the point entirely.

>>87942122

I didn't miss the point. A film is not a fork and Zack Snyder is your filmmaking god now. If you can't handle his amazing skills, go watch a fucking Disney Princess film, you purse-carrying bitch.

>>87942094
>Yeah, cause Clark set the pace and staged the fight and Zod had no say at all.
Superman could literally lift Zod and bum rush him outside of the city limits before Zod even realized what had happened and regained his momentum.

He could hold him long enough to put him in a headlock but you're still going to tell me that he couldn't, I dunno, force him away from the civilians who he was supposed to save?

Fucking really?

>>87942094
>The bad guy they thought they just dispatched?

You always double tap.

>>87923549
it was a shitty film and shit script
>>87923973
i agree but zack synder has about as much subtle as Micheal bay

>>87942185
Moana is pretty good, bruh.

>>87942185
At least the disney princess films are profitable.

Which is more than can be said about most of Snyder's films.

It reminds me a lot of wolverine: origins where most of the movie is taken up by invincible people fighting each other. there's no way to make that good, you have to come up with something better that doesn't make you wonder, in this movie's instance, why superman can't manage to stop metropolis from being destroyed.

that just makes it about a pointless alien, not somebody worth caring about. it's like the heads of these movies were primarily concerned that the protagonist faced a sufficient fighting challenge.

>>87942185
>he doesnt like disney princess movies
no taste detected

>>87942241
>>87942278
>>87942349

Look at these assholes, holding their balls in a purse. I bet you like Sailor Moon, too, you bunch of castrated faggots.

>>87923549
Well, lets set aside Superman as he pertains to the comic book persona and look at this as though someone has never encountered Superman before.

This is the "Martha" moment of Man of Steel. The moment that the audience is expected to not only suspend reality, but basic logic. If Superman were able to twist Zod's neck enough to break it, why was he not able to simply move Zod's head so that the people would no longer be in danger AND Zod would not be killed?

It was written that way with the sole intention of creating a situation where Superman would be forced to kill Zod, but looking at the situation logically there were any number of things supes could've done to save those people and not kill Zod, but we're expected to not think about it or think "Supes had to think quickly," but people don't generally kill as a first resort to a situation like that.

Just like "You're letting them kill Martha!" "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!" this scene defies basic logic for the sake of a "cool movie moment." This is what Snyder brings to his movies, and this is why the DCEU has been terrible so far.

>>87942198
>He could hold him long enough to put him in a headlock but you're still going to tell me that he couldn't, I dunno, force him away from the civilians who he was supposed to save?
When Superman knocked Zod into space, Zod just brought the fight right back to Metropolis.

>>87942370
Why would I watch Sailor Moon if I was castrated?

That's like torture, pal. At least think of a more creative insult.

3/10 for trying.

>>87942370
>not liking sailor moon
sir, you are digging your grave deeper

>>87942423

Who the fuck watches that shit but lesbians and castrated faggots? Go watch something that actually shows off some tits, you gutless, nutless fruit basket.

>>87942370
I knew a guy like you, would constantly go on about all the pussy he was drowning in before he later on got exposed for sucking dick at a gentlemen's club.

Is there something you wanna tell us anon?

>>87942198
>Superman could literally lift Zod and bum rush him outside of the city limits

Yeah, he can do a lot if Zod doesn't stop him. Which Zod could do. Which Zod did do.

I know this is hard for you, so picture this: In a fist fight I can pick the other guy up and carry him down the street too if the other guy, who I'm fighting with, just lets me carry him and doesn't make any effort at all to stop me...

But why would that guy let me do that?

So, in turn, why would Zod let Clark carry him out of town? His goal was to fuck Clark up and kill people. He didn't want to fight somewhere else. Metropolis is where he wanted to be.

>Fucking really?

Cute.

>You always double tap.

So he should have spent the last part of the movie in a lab trying to figure a way into the phantom zone to make sure everyone was there.

Or, he could (like any person would), upon thinking that he won and the fight was over have his cathartic emotional release.

>>87942468
maybe he should have solved the problem using a careful plan, to show he can overcome problems without his superpowers
like in superman II

>>87942415
That only tells me how incompetent Superman is as a defender though.

A dude tries to bring the fight back to the populated area, you fucking stop him! Supes is just as strong/fast/etc. as Zod is so is it really a stretch to say that Supes could've tried a little bit harder?

>>87942396
Its a shame that they spent the phantom zone coin earlier in the film. Had Zod been imprisoned again like the rest of his crew, perhaps the angle they could have went with is Clark solving problems the same way Kryptno did, which lead to their imminent destruction, thereby being more reluctant to use a phantom projector ever again. But in short both scenarios were created because Zack Snyder does not know how to create a emotional scene, or leave the film with some sort of weight, without killing someone and thus demonstrates his shortcomings as a storyteller. The guy can frame a shot but thats about it

>>87942463

Yeah, that you watch shit made for little girls, and that makes you a goddamned faggot. Go suck dick and get out of this thread about a real man and his real masterpiece of a film.

>>87942396
>why was he not able to simply move Zod's head so that the people would no longer be in danger AND Zod would not be killed?

Because then the fist fight would have continued and this very same scenario would have played out over and over again. You guys stop thinking beyond that very moment. Say Clark moves his head to the side, you act like Zod would have stopped trying to kill anyone that got too close while keeping the fight going.

Zod was telling Clark something very clearly in that scene, and the audience too, but the audience was too dumb to understand that simple message it seems.

>>87942459
Again, why watch Sailor Moon if you're castrated?

>>87941435

He could have raped him.

>>87942468
Zod let Superman get him into a headlock and break his neck.

Just saying.

>>87942550

Because it's all about emotions and feelings and shit, and that's all faggots talk about when they're not eating each other's shit.

>>87929910
He killed Zod in Superman 2.
So....

>>87942516
No seriously, is there something you want to tell us anon?

Because legitimately straight people don't try this hard to convince people how straight they are.

>>87942591

Maybe they should, then faggots like you wouldn't hit on them and get your heads caved in for it.

>>87942506
>A dude tries to bring the fight back to the populated area, you fucking stop him!

Oh, just stop him. I forgot that Clark had the power to just stop Zod and impose his will upon him.

>Silly Clark, you should have used your firm voice and told Zod "No."

Dude.

>>87942531
Zod just kinda sat there and didn't really do anything to break outta the headlock though.

Even then, Supes could've at least tried if his intention was to only kill him as a last resort.

>>87942586
>Because it's all about emotions and feelings and shit
Yes, people have those. you silly sociopath.

>>87942586
This film is called "Man of Feel" for a reason anon.

>>87942649

But only women and faggots actually talk about them. Real men don't do that shit. So go fuck some faggot ass, gaylord.

>>87942670
>Real men
You don't even exist, though.

>>87942635
>Zod just kinda sat there and didn't really do anything to break outta the headlock though.

Do you take that to mean that Clark could have kept Zod in that spot for the rest of time and Zod would have just stopped fighting his way towards people to kill?

lol

>>87942663

No, it's called Man of Steel, and it's about a ubermensch coming to terms with being God. Just like Donald Trump.

>>87942616
Most people don't feel the need to advertise their sexuality around other people anon.

Even if I was gay, I could find a way better faggot than you.

>>87942691

If I don't exist, how are you talking to me? Now go cuck some twink faggot by sucking his black boyfriend's dick.

>>87923549

I think killing Zod was the right move. But I think "Man of Steel" dropped the ball hard when it came to the Kyrptonians. The movie barely explores what Clark feels when he realizes that other Kryptonians exist, or fighting against other Kryptonians, or killing the very last of his species in order to save a world that hasn't fully accepted him.

For a movie that revolves around Clark's feeling of isolation, I don't see why that wasn't a bigger part of the movie. Clark snaps Zod's neck, screams for a bit and then the next scene he's quipping it up in the US desert with Gen. Swanwick.

>>87942618
>Oh, just stop him. I forgot that Clark had the power to just stop Zod and impose his will upon him.

He could literally tackle Zod into the next county before Zod even realizes what's up and punt his ass into the ground if he tries to run away.

Then again, if he did that then Snyder couldn't contrive a death scene so into the populated areas we go.

Fuck logic.

>>87942732
Wait.

How am I talking to you?

>>87942757

You tell me, shiteater.

>>87923549
Zod wouldn't have ever stopped. Superman realized that, even beaten and put in a choke hold, Zod was still trying to kill humans and cause destruction. What you need to understand in the character that is Zod in this movie


Zod is a general in the beginning of the movie, where it's explained he was literally BORN and his genetics molded to protect Krypton. Zod is biologically incapable of doing anything other than that. So what Zod was trying to do was, now with a Krypton-like planet and the genetic models of all the Kryptonian people embedded in Clark, follow his biological need to protect Krypton's interest.

So you ask why Superman killed Zod, because he knew that no matter what, Zod would never leave Earth or him- because he holds the matrix, or whatever that things called- alone. With that in mind he had to make the choice to kill him.

As to the reason why fans are butthurt? This is a real Superman, a person who wasn't made with genetic perfection like Zod. Fans just want another 'good guy saved the day' boyscout Superman.

>>87942694
Not for the rest of time, but long enough for the family to get the hell out of the goddamn way.

Anything that happens beyond that point would come down to whether or not Snyder wanted to engineer some more collateral damage before ultimately killing Zod off.

>>87926481

I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, I like how they show Kryptonian invulnerability through them being shoved through skyscrapers, but being fine. And I don't know about you, but I felt like Zod and Clark were getting tired.

>>87923549
Normies who dont understand Superman for the greater good when Lawful Good isnt an option

>>87942791

>This is a real Superman

THIS GUY GETS IT. This is the post-9/11 Superman, the Superman for people who've said "fuck it" and given up on everything. Now we have a Superman to match their cynicism and apathy and it feels fucking great.

Boy howdy look at that poster/post ratio!

>>87923549
Nothing to do with nerds. Superman killed for the sake of having him kill. Was unnecessary and heavy-handed just like the tornado scene.

Zack/Goyer/WB missed the point. See fucking Captain America for a better cinematic Superman.

>>87942701
No, it's about an alien crying about "muh 'sponsibility" as people die around him because he's too much of a faggot to nut up and stop fucking up by letting preventable shit happen.

I'm honestly glad his dad bites it partway through the movie, simply because he was the one who put that stupid idea in Clark's head in the first place.

>>87942773
No, I asked you.

How the fuck am I speaking to you?

What the fuck is going on?

>>87942868

>it's about an alien crying about "muh 'sponsibility"

No, it's about God becoming God. Again, just like Donald Trump.

>>87942791
The real superman is supposed to be a dude that we all look up to.

This Superman is just a pussy who gets easily led astray and cries about it, rather than doing something until the last five minutes of the movie.

>>87942893

Go suck dick so you can stop talking, gaymo.

>>87942931
instead of a perfect alien being, a god, we get a human character with flaws and problems. I look up to a flawed character more than a perfect one you fucking retard.

>>87942931

But then this Superman nutted the fuck up and killed a motherfucker, so he became God. And lots of people look up to God, right? Right.

Zack Snyder is a genius, and you can go fuck your left hand.

>>87942938
What?

Who are you?

Are you fucking threatening me? FUCK!

THE SAD FROGS ARE REAL TOO AREN'T THEY?

>>87942756
>He could literally tackle Zod into the next county before Zod even realizes what's up

Again, for this to be true we'd have to believe that Superman was far more powerful that Zod. This is not true. There's absolutely nothing in the movie that would lead us to that conclusion.

>punt his ass into the ground if he tries to run away.

I see the problem. You guys treat this fight like it was Superman vs some guy and not two superman powered guys in a fight.

>Fuck logic.

Fuck understanding what was actually going on in the movie too apparently.

>>87942803
>long enough for the family to get the hell out of the goddamn way.

And the next family too, huh? Metropolis was full of families and Zod made it clear at that moment that he had two goals for that fight: hurting Clark and killing people.

>Anything that happens beyond that point

You act as if that was a point they could move beyond. That family gets away then Zod starts fighting Clark until they fight themselves into where he can see the next family and the moment never stops.

>>87926802

How can this be defended? Honest question.

>>87942910
No, it's about a faggot who was told conflicting information which ended up with him doing nothing of worth until the last five minutes of film.

Everyone who complains about the neck snap didn't watch the whole movie, because the whole thing is utter trash. I gave it a re-watch last week and I can't believe I didn't realize how bad it is back then.
Many of Lois's lines feel like they come out of the blue, as if she were repeating things someone in binoculars was telling her to say through an earpiece.

>>87942992

>How can this be defended?

Oh like there was anyone in that building by then.

>>87942992
>parking garage

>>87942992

i haven't seen man of steel in awhile so i was like "it can't be that bad" but then it kept going and going and showing the entire parking garage crumbling.

still laughing

>>87942590
see the donner cut

>>87942931
>The real superman is supposed to be a dude that we all look up to.

Soldiers kill people. People look up to them and have throughout history, from Leonidas to Audy Murphy.

>This Superman is just a pussy

Great, now we have people here to bitch that MoS wasn't edgy *enough*. lol

>>87943003

And then he nutted the fuck up and killed a guy, thus ridding himself of those shitty emotions and becoming God.

Sure, it took him more time to do than Donald Trump, but Superman got there eventually.

>>87942958
A flawed character should develop into a better person by the end of the story. If they're the exact same at the end as they were at the beginning, then they're just poorly written characters with a ton of flaws.

I mean, say what you will about Iron Man but at least when he hit the bottle and get too big for his britches, the world reacted by kicking the shit outta him until he got his shit back together.

>>87943041
>see the donner cut

Alternate endings aren't canon. Superman broke that dude's hand and tossed him into a deep dark hole. Then he went to a truck stop to beat the shit out of a regular human.

>Superman has to be a paragon of virtue

Meanwhile the old movies had Superman be petty as fuck at times.

Im disappointed this Superman doesnt have cold breath. Whats also depressing is that BvS virtually killed any chance of seeing Bizarro or Parasite ever in a film

>>87926931

>668 million dollars worth. I don't know how to put that into a percent of these groups that you're trying to pretend don't go see superman movies.

I feel like you're falling into a trap that a lot of DCEU fans fall into, which is confusing performance with potential. Man of Steel cost $225 million. $668 million is a ton of money, but a Superman reboot should have performed much higher. And the same issue with BvS. It made a lot of money, but it should have performed much much higher. And imo what held both movies back were their dismal RT scores and bad word-of-mouth. If BvS had gotten good review and had a decent RT score, I genuinely think it could've grossed more than TFA.

>>87942964
No, he didn't nut up, he took the easy way out.

A true God finds a way even when the way doesn't exist, not just take the lesser of two evils because it was the most convenient at that moment.

It's why Superman never killed, he has the power to choose not to, even when the situation is dire and it appears as though it's the only option.

>>87943155

it's kinda like that's part of the point even.

>>87943155

>No, he didn't nut up, he took the easy way out.

Like I said, he nutted up and got shit done, and he became God as a result.

Just like Donald Trump.