Why did Tim Drake fall from grace?

>>87704008
Because somebody thought it'd be a good idea to publish Brad Meltzer Fucks the DC Universe.

>>87704008
because making what was a relatively happy, humble, dorky self insert character into a grim, gritty, depressed batman jr was a big mistake

Because Damian is better.

>>87704008
Tim Drake was a mistake.

Dick flew out of the nest and that's alright.
Jason died and made Batman learn a lesson.
Tim brings nothing to the table.

>>87704206
Same can be said about Damian. He's stuck as Robin for the time being.

>>87704569
>Same can be said about Damian. He's stuck as Robin for the time being.
Tim is gay.

>>87704206
Tim was what lightened Bats up after Jason, too bad they fucked even that up

>Tim would've been a better character of he was a girl.
Y/N?

>>87704206
>Tim Drake was a mistake.
>Dick flew out of the nest and that's alright.
>Jason died and made Batman learn a lesson.
>Tim brings nothing to the table.
Tim brought balance to the Force.

By which I mean I'm of the opinion that Batman really needs a permanent sidekick to balance out his brooding and darker tones, and Tim is the only one that fits the bill.

Damian can't do it because he's an edgy little cunt who turn the Batman-Robin dynamic on its head. Tim is basically just Dick 2.0, but that's fine because Batman needs a Dick 2.0.

>>87704769
Damian only worked as Dick's robin, not Bruce's. Morrison knew this.

>>87704769
>Damian can't do it because he's an edgy little cunt who turn the Batman-Robin dynamic on its head.
Tim sucks,

>>87704785
>Damian only worked as Dick's robin, not Bruce's. Morrison knew this.
Jasonfags pls.

>>87704768
Harper is basically Tim

Smart modern geek with no physical training who wants to be a sidekick, or at least wanted

>>87704769
I hate it when the stupid Tim fanboys at CBR makes these fanboyish acticles.

>>87704768
I would like him less because I wouldn't ship him with Kon anymore.

straight male btw

>>87704800

Timfag please. You throw so much shade, it's time to stop.

On top of that, new Tim has all the personality of a wet towel, he has no character in the reboot apart from having a lot of money, and in v.5, he's just been demoted to "computers guy"

>>87704820
I don't even like Tim.

To be honest I'd perfectly happy with rolling back the timeline where Dick is still Robin and none of the others exist. But that's not going to happen and Dick has a pretty good thing going on by himself, so I feel that Tim is the next best thing.

>>87704008

RED ROBIN.

Tim had grew up to the point he needed his own "nightwing" persona, more than a robin, and less than a batman, but the problem was that red robin wasnt that good of a book so he didnt build up momentum to be on his own, when new52 came, Tim was DESTROYED, Dick was Dick, Jason is more popular now than ever thanks to the movie, the need for an anti-hero in the bat-family and the game, Damian was ROBIN and is pretty popular among kids, Tim, just like Cass was put aside, Snyder didnt care about them, DC under Johns and Lee leadership made sure the 90's fans were fucked, and Tim paid the price.


Tim is still great and we will have to wait 10 more years for the 90's fans to be writers to see him comeback

>>87704887
I actually really like Red Robin. Did a good job separating how Dick and Tim do their own brand of crime fighting

>>87704768
>combine Babs and Tim into one character
What changes?

>>87704206
>Jason died and made Batman learn a lesson

I thought he ended up being the Arkham Knight

>>87704887
>the 90's fans to be writers to see him comeback
This already happened, anon.

>>87704939
I liked the concept and how he grew up, the thing is that with 2 or 3 more years of development he would had been pretty good.

I loved the fight with Shiva, Bruce is arrogant and ALWAYS want to test himself against martial artists. Tim just using poison without giving a fuck was perfect

>>87705069
It's not arrogance, Bruce respects the concept of honor between martial artists

>>87704008
The need to make him dark, groomy and such killed everything. He could be redeemed but now Lark is a thing and Damian is just an edgelord. It's just a little too late for side-kicks at this point. They could make Damian grow up through super-sons and have him want the relationship Supes has with his Dad. Make him a bit more light hearted and Grow Batman to be a better Dad.

>>87704008
>Why did Tim Drake fall from grace?

100% Grant Morrison's fault. He created Damian and stole the Robin identity for his pet OC's use. That meant Tim had to be shuffled away to the lame makeshift "Red Robin" identity, and they can't restore him because they'd have to get rid of Damian to do that.

It's the exact same thing as with Cassandra Cain. There was nothing wrong with her as a Batgirl, but DC wanted to make room, first for Batwoman, and when she wasn't the big hit they hoped for, Barbara Gordon. So she was shuffled away into various makeshift titles and can't be properly restored without getting rid of Babs.

Who benefits?

>>87705291
>>Why did Tim Drake fall from grace?100% Grant Morrison's fault. He created Damian and stole the Robin identity for his pet OC's use. That meant Tim had to be shuffled away to the lame makeshift "Red Robin" identity, and they can't restore him because they'd have to get rid of Damian to do that.It's the exact same thing as with Cassandra Cain. There was nothing wrong with her as a Batgirl, but DC wanted to make room, first for Batwoman, and when she wasn't the big hit they hoped for, Barbara Gordon. So she was shuffled away into various makeshift titles and can't be properly restored without getting rid of Babs.


No.

Tim was destined to STOP being robin, first he was going to replace Ted Kord. Damian isnt to blame and the conflic between damian and tim was good for both.

Cass was sided for different reasons. Batwoman and Cass where never in conflic, Cass was supose to star the outsiders

>>87704206
Wrong, Tim countered the worst aspects of Batman after Jason's death.

I love Damian, but he's inferior as a partner to Bruce.

>>87705416
you know when you say he was destined to stop, I always thought the ideal end of his arc was him stepping down and living a normal life, doing the one thing nobody else could do and getting out of the life.

>>87704768
Yes.
Hell, make Tim gay and he's way better.

>>87705416
It would have been if damian wasn't an awful character but he's bad. He doesn't add anything to batmans character except the willingness to forgo justice and put a murder behind bars because of family. All damian does is prove how worthless batman is because he won't put the little psycho behind bars. That's not even getting to the fact that damian beyond being pyschotic is also annoying as fuck. I literally have started just skipping over his dialog.

>>87706173

That would actually be the perfect end for Tim Drake.

He saw a need, he filled a need, he moved on.

8/10, need to know he became a social worker.

>>87705416
>Batwoman and Cass where never in conflict

They explicitly were. Batwoman was the whole reason they tried to turn Cass into a villain. DC editors of the time thought (and likely still think) there's only room for one female Bat character, and since they got the idea of a Batwoman, Cass had to go. Originally she was supposed to be the new "former ally" villain to replace Jason Todd, who was supposed to be the new Nightwing, who was supposed to be the new dead one, but they aborted that rotation plan shortly after starting it because the fans of Dick and Cass got mad as fuck at it. But they tried to do it, the very reason they tried to do it like that is because they think only one character of each "class" can exist at a time.

They do have a point in that, we've seen how multiple Robins eat each others' popularity, but the "fuck your old favorites, here's the new shit, learn to like it" approach is never going to be popular with people.

>>87704206

Tim established that Batman NEEDS to have a Robin.

It's implied, it's stated outright. Had you read comics before, you'd know.

Talk shit about Tim all you want but he carried his own title for years.

>>87706368
<sighs> Timfags.

>>87704966
Love triangle between TimBabs, Dick and Kon

>>87706928
>Talk shit about Tim all you want but he carried his own title for years
He was able to carry his own title because DC made sure and possible for him to do so.

If Jason was given half the attention Tim was given back then, he would have also been able to carry his own book too and there will be no need for Tim.

Daily reminder that Tim held down his own solo longer than any other Robin by a wide margin.

File: Morrison o'clock.png (516KB, 720x800px) Image search: [Google]

516KB, 720x800px

>>87704008
Because DC in their infinite wisdom decided that they were going to do away with all the previous continuity and start afresh with the Nu52 so it wouldn't be confusing for new readers.

But they didn't want to alienate their previous readers so they kept some of it.

But they were kind of vague as to what they kept and what they didn't meaning that the people who did follow the comics for years who knew the continuity were confused as to what did and did not happen and went on to argue about it, and those who were new readers were met with an even more impenetrable wall of continuity.

This meant that Batman had to be condensed down into a 5-10 year time frame where some stuff happened and some stuff didn't and in order to keep it more interesting, rather than having two Robins running about, the just made Tim Red Robin all along, but failed to give us a reason to actually care about this new timeline for him.

Why did Tim fall from grace?

DC wanting their cake and eating it.

>>87704008
He was never defined as a character beyond being Robin. What I mean is, Dick Grayson left for College and became a Titan full time, Jason probably killed a guy and then was murdered. Tim's schtick seemed like it was going to be the son Batman never had, but then Batman had a son anyways, and so Tim languishes.

>>87706859
No. They have saner minds in Batman Editoral now. The Superman books have all those single minded folks now and even them have changed their tune it seems.

>>87707656
He was never batman's son it was a point a specific plot point.

>>87707200

>made sure and possible

It was a popular character and they backed it.

Yeah, if Jason had been as popular, they would have given him his own title too.

Although Tim had multiple titles including team books through years. But whatever, if only things weren't as they are and all that.

>>87704008
Cass stole his virginity.
This made Gotham mad.

>>87704887
I just want a book with Tim and Steph with a PI Agency in a city that isn't Gotham, have Chimp and Question show up occasionally as well as Dick and Jason.

>>87704008
DC doesn't know what to do with their ex-Robins. They can barely keep Dick Grayson relevant yet alone the purposely blander and inoffensive Tim. He might be better off now if the reboot hadn't hit and he hadn't been shuffled off to the Titans to be completely rewritten by Lobdell but his time in the sun was over the moment Damian became more popular as Robin than him.

>>87708850
DC made sure that Tim becomes popular and made it possible for him to carry his own book.

If Tim was treated like Jason was in his days as Robin, he wouldn't have a stood a chance.

>>87709852

Tbqh he WAS shit.

>>87709146

Okay I only vaguely remember the theory about Gotham City being sentient and mad about Tim losing his virginity/not wanting Tim to lose his virginity. Can someone explain the origin/details behind this?

>>87709721
>Damian became more popular
I don't feel like he's more popular. He's lost every popularity poll I've seen him in. He's just been pushed a lot because he's morrison's pet character. It didn't matter that he was complete shit when morrison wrote him but the fact that it was a popular writer.

>>87709958
Who?

>>87710038

Jason.

>>87709852
This.

If DC actually bothered to give Jason a chance and made sure he became popular, he would have been able to carry his own book.

>>87710112
He wasn't. He was actually quite interesting and full of potential, but he was literally never given a chance.

Starlin was planning to kill him from the beginning and DC went with the vote and killed off despite the fact that they knew it wasn't legit.

>>87710112

Jason was actually pretty interesting.
He wasn't Dick though so some people didn't like him.

>>87710019
Morrison *killed* Damian, as had been his intention from the start. Yes, Damian was prominent in his run, but then again so was Simon Hurt.

It was not Morrison's fault that Damian transcended his purpose.

Duke an Harper, on the other hand....

>>87709146

Cass fucked Tim? Huh, I don't see it, but then I noped out of actually following stuff properly a while after No Mans Land, and only usually get Elseworlds trades now.

>>87711244
It did happen at the end of Gates of Gotham.
Guess what did happen right next?

>>87708078
The plot point where Tim is constantly trying to get some distance from the bat and always failing because he's too naturally similar? They ran with that for years.