>joke character is the big bad

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>Joke character is the true MC

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>>87607306
>joke characters suddenly turns into tragic villain who eventually do a Heel–Face Turn then dies.

>>87607306
I require examples.

>>87608398
happy potter and the sorcerer's stone.

>>87608398
Hoodwinked.

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>>87607306
>Joke character dies early on
>nah jk they survived and became angsty

>>87608398
>I require examples.

Orko turned out to be the true villain of the He-Man series in DC's Masters of the Universe comic.

Even changed his name to Dark Orko.

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>>87608856
>joke character turns into 'OW THE EDGE'

>>87608398
Swirly Glasses

>>87607306
>joke character is the big guy

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>>87608398

>>87608941
THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED
HE DESTROYED A WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLE KITCHEN

>>87607306
>>87608252
>>87608703

Harry Potter did both of these, actually.

Neville was the one who actually killed Voldemort, at least in the movie.

>>87608398
undertale twice

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>>87607306
I initially thought Adachi was just another comic relief/ cool guy

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>>87607306
>time skip/future episode
>annoying kid/joke character becomes an ultra-badass

>Big bad is really the second in command

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>big bad was the mc from the future
not enough media does it

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>>87608398
Not /co/ but still

>>87608337
Snape lol

Also go back to TVTropes

>>87608977
Oh man.
My sides.

>>87611085
I only know
>side character travels into future where mc is the villain cause side character disappeared
Arguably I've only seen this on Darkwing Duck

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>big bad becomes joke character

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>>87608252

>>87610782
I don't really remember Hannibal as a true antagonist. He was just a side character in Silence of the Lambs, and when they started making movies specifically about him, he was more like a protagonist.

>>87611085
Infamous
>>87611483
>side character travels into future where mc is the villain cause side character disappeared
There was an episode of Superman TAS about that

>>87610782
This is objectively wrong. It's all about the portrayal.

>>87608337
not /co/ and only certain paths, but

Zelos Wilder

>>87610782
wasn't ganondorf cursed by fate his ancestors to repeat the cycle set forward in skyward sword?

>>87611737
No, he is a partial reincarnation of a literal god of evil
He has no real motivation except in Wind Waker

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>It's a bad future episode where the joke character died and took the group's heart with him

>>87610522
Voldemort was killed by himself, twice. He cast the Killing Curse on Harry and it bounced back.
He actually cast the Killing Curse on Harry no less than four times throughout the books, and it always backfired to some extent.

The Horcruxes were destroyed by Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, Grabbe and/or Goyle, Neville and himself.

>>87611766
no evident motivation, they don't really give him time to flesh out his desires beyond obtaining ultimate power, although i feel like the LoZ series has no overarching story, and they just make it up as they go along

>>87611510
Remember that one episode of Pokemon where Team Rocket was a legitimate threat?

>>87610782
But what about Light Yagami who's both "Elder God" and "Shit" at the same time?
Or Joker who's doing all six just on whims?

>>87611838
>i feel like the LoZ series has no overarching story, and they just make it up as they go along
That's certainly their intention. They only released a timeline because fans wouldn't stop bitching about it.

>>87608977
The article actually seems to have a very subtle implication of what's obviously going on. It mentions all the allegations against him and how he can't actually refute them, it describes his insane jihadist beliefs, and it ends with the journalist being told by some creepy Muslim G-Man telling him "YOU HAVE ASKED TOO MUCH".

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>>87607306
>It's the scene where the joke character reveals himself as the big bad

>>87610782

>adachi
>some girls reject me so im gonna turn into a killer
>elder god tier

Adachi is beta af

>>87607306
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdKFMTsaaBA

Couldn't think of anything else. inb4 go back to /a/

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>Joke character gives up his life trying to stop the ultimate big bad of the series

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>>87611963
>but fails horribly

>>87611653
Yeah it here's them only by their motivations and not how they act r justify things. Guys like Hannibal are good ones because the energy they give out and sometimes a guy who is just lusting for powers can be a magnificent bastard you just have to love. Meanwhile some reluctant villains are just some crybabies who whine and dont get to fix anything only making their situations worse so it's hard to give a shit.

Tobi

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>joke character is actually a complex character who uses humor to cover his chronic depression

>>87611946
/a/ wouldn't want you anyway.

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>>87610841
>beware

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>>87612069
>Someone disses or belittles the joke character, usually over not being serious enough
>Joke character gets serious and blows them the fuck out.

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>>87611510
>the cool side villain gets more and more ineffectual as the series progresses

>>87611382
Video games are automatically /co/ because they're animated. ;)

>>87611085
Used to be done a lot then calmed down. Most recent examples I can think of though are infamous and technically tales of xilla 2 except he wasn't the bug bad but was from some weird alternate future world

>>87608950
>UUUU

>>87610741
But Twice is a mango, and isn't the last boss yet

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>>87612147
>Serious, threatening villain joins the heroes
>Becomes progressively less serious and threatening until he's basically just another side character or an actual joke.

>>87608398
Scrappy Doo.

>>87612257
Fuck anyone who says the live action Scooby Doo film sucked. That twist alone made it amazing.

>>87610782
Ganondorf doesn't really fit.

>>87610782
WTF is this list?

>>87612257
haha holy shit I forgot about that

>>87612257
Shit I wanted to forget that I even watched that movie.

>>87610841
I like this. Especially when the overweight nerd/tech guy is the resistance leader and the time traveling girls suddenly fawn over him but he gives them the finger for being attracted to him in the future and giggling at him in the past.

Just feels so cathartic.

>>87612624
That's weirdly specific, anon
Show?

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The joke character getting serious will always be my favorite thing ever.

I don't go into shows expecting the joke character to be my favorite but I always leave with them being

>>87612656
(it's anon's mary sue)

>>87608897
>character is CRAWLING IN MY SKIN
>Constantly mocked for being such edgy angst.

>>87612125
I always love how Angel blows the fuck out Logan when he reveals Wade never took any of his checks.

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>Joke character gets depressed and becomes a serious character like everyone else as the situation gets more and more dark/grim

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>>87613009
>smug character loses his cool

>>87608398
The US presidential election

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say wha'?

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>>87613288
I demand Hater chimp backstory.

>>87612208
The whole power level nonsense really did a number on these two

specifically during the Cell Saga

>>87608398
Tokyo Ghost

> joke character NTRs the mc with the best girl

> best friend is actually a girl
> stays friends

>>87613182
so fitting

it's still hard accepting it's real

>>87607306
What's the actual appeal of that trope? Like really, when has that ever been well written or cool?

>>87611085
Danny Phantom: Ultimate Enemy

>>87611963
>Kittan
>Joke character
How? He was literally Kamina with less ego.

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>>87608398
The Mule in the Foundation series is probably the ultimate example.

>>87608398
Wreck it Ralph

Seemingly harmless obstacle is actually a fucking madman

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>>87614327
>best friend through all of highschool was a girl
>tfw liked her
>tfw shows like these trigger me so fkn hard

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>>87608873

>>87610782
This list is shit because you can't grade villains like that.

Ganondorf was the perfect villain in OoT because the game didn't need a complicated villain. It was a classic story of an unlikely hero beating the evil guy against all odds.

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>Big Bad was actually a joke character all along

>>87610782
That's stupid. If a villain's motives are better than the heroes then why would they be a villain? A villain is a villain because they are bad, if your protagonist is being morally one upped by the guy he's fighting then you have failed as a writer.

>>87616651
>If a villain's motives are better than the heroes then why would they be a villain?

It's not the motive that matters but the means one is willing to use. See: Watchmen.

>>87616677
Ozymandias was a self righteous asshole

>>87616717
Doesn't matter.

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>>87611085
>Danny Phantom The Ultimate Enemy

The hypest shit.

>>87607306
>joke character wins the election

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>>87611085

>>87611703

wooooord

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>>87616800
>big bad was the mc from an alternative dimension
>infinite dimensions/parallel universes
>go back in time and drown the MC to prevent him from becoming the bad guy
>when there's infinite dimensions, so there's infinite realities where he's still alive
>accomplish literally nothing

Ken Levine blew it.

>>87616267
Bury it, burn it, do what you will. But kill it somehow, else it will slowly eat away at you until you are a husk of a man.

>>87618205
>The joke character is the one to beat the final boss

>>87616800
>>87616882
Shit game for this reason.

>>87611653
True. Lavos was one of the greatest villains ever written, simply because it WASN'T written.

You spend the whole game fighting against Lavos, but Lavos doesn't fight back. Lavos is a force of nature. You're not fighting against Lavos the creature, you're fighting against Lavos the EVENT.

>>87611085
FSN

>>87618763
Soros cannot be defeated, only delayed.

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>>87610782
Pic related villain is Elder god tier
Too bad /v/ doesn't read

>>87610782
Adachi: "I was just trying to have a little fun! Isn't that basically the same as what you guys are doing?"
Rise: "Well, I can't say he's wrong..."
Me: "Yes you fucking can you dumb bitch."

>>87607306
>The foundation series did this with the Mule

>Star Wars was going to do the same with Jar Jar Binks (he was originally planned to be a mercenary that sells the heroes out)

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>>87607306
>Serious villein turns into the joke character in the form of a jobber

>>87611605
yeah he started out as a supporting character in Red Dragon and in Silence of the lambs, in fact he was a reference to Ted Bundy helping the FBI catch some other killer irl.
He did send Dolarhyde after Will Graham's family, but beyond that he isn't really an antagonist.

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>Someone tries to poison a powerful character
>they just eat/drink it like its nothing
>they smile at the poisoner

>>87611796
That was the justice league

>>87611605
He was the true antagonist because the actual antagonist of SotL didn't do a god damn thing for the whole movie. All of his scenes could've been cut and the movie would play on as normal from what I remember.

>>87619639
The only example I can think of is hunter x hunter.

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>>87611510
>The big bad goes from serious to joke character in their very first appearance

>>87620031
>implying white diamond isn't the real big bad

I mean come on this is basic narrative flow. Yellow diamond is our first taste of what the diamonds are like. But she's an arrogant moron. Blue and White are going to be far more dangerous.

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>>87616615
Why must you remind me of this? Holy fuck that shit pissed me off.

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>>87620073
Maybe, still though, all the hype and all we get is a giraffe necked freak flashing us a silly meme face.

>>87620124
It's only a meme face because /co/ made it a meme face. That's like blaming Fox for the Milhouse meme

>>87620186
Look at that fucking thing and tell me Rebecca wasn't trying way too hard to make "le ebin maymay XD!"

>>87620224
You could say the same thing about Frank Castle.

Hell it's even the same face.

>>87620082
I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates that development. All my friends think having him turn out to be Lanky Kong was somehow an improvement.

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>>87620241
>There are people who thought Zant going off his meds just so we can get a "actually Ganondorf, the guy we didn't so much as hint at until this point in the game but he was in the other Zelda games and we don't dare to be different, is the real villain!"

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>Main character becomes villan in sequel

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>>87620618
>Villain becomes main character in prequel
>they were good all along and dindu nuffin

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>joke character turns out to be the best bro, coolest guy, and pretty powerful

>>87620240
you can

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>>87608398

>>87612125
What is it about Wade that he always seems to be written shitty or great

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>villain is neutral/hero turned evil through mind control, magic, etc
>they become an exaggerated parody of their usual self, with abilities to reflect their personalities and hobbies

in all honesty I find it both interesting and creepy when familiar things are made grotesque or perverse,

for instance, the zombies in Blackest Night, the "stankified" monsters in Randy Cunningham, 9th Grade Ninja, or when bosses in video games are allies transformed

>>87621727
Oh, and bonus points if the character's soul/mind is trying to fight the evil influence from inside. Makes it more cliche, but more heartwarming too

>It's a "one-off villain is cooler and reveals more about the protagonist than the main villain ever could" episode

The Nightmare from Links Awakening

>>87608941
EEEHE HEEHE HEEEE

>>87608977
kekd hard

>>87616651
>If a villain's motives are better than the heroes then why would they be a villain?
It's probably because the word villain is not synonymous with the word antagonist. An antagonist is just a character who's role is to be against the protagonist. Also no good story starts out saying the antagonist's motives are superior to the protagonists, first the story paints the protagonist as the one who is in the right until the twist is reviled.

>>87616017
whos this?

>>87616677
>It's not the motive that matters but the means one is willing to use.
It's the age old question: do the ends always justify the means?

>>87611864

Light Yagami was never evil for it's own sakes. He was completely utilitarian in motive.

>>87622336
That's still stupid, you can't have antagonist and protagonists when the antagonist is the guy you end up rooting for.

>>87620073
Even if that's the case the pace at which the story with the Diamonds is going entirely too slow for that to matter. It'll be years before we even hear about White Diamond.

>>87622769
Protagonist doesn't mean good or bad, it means main character and force opposing the main character.

Vito Corleone is the protagonist of The Godfather, and police act as antagonists. Doesn't mean the Mafia are good people. It's just who the story follows.

>>87613182
Nice.

>>87622805
But by making someone the protagonist, even if they're on the evil team, you still acknowledge that you want people to root for him.

>>87611510
This one hurts because Valmont is Jackie tier in a fight, not that you're supposed to remember that fact because HEY LOOK HE'S POOR NOW LOL

>>87622378
The Mule, from the Foundation series.

>>87622805
>>87622861
You can have a protagonist who's an unlikeable asshole, but it's hard to write, and can make the story hard to read. Alex from Clockwork Orange is the only one I can think of.

>>87623060
Designated Hero Syndrome is very hard to avoid, because you have to have to make it clear that what the main character is doing is absolutely wrong while still making sure people want to watch. The cognitive dissonance has murdered more than one "protagonist is actually a villain" story.

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>joke character is mc's best friend

>>87623260
>Touhou
I didn't know there were any non-joke characters.

>>87616408

>Keith Giffen

Ohhhhh. So it's satire and not supposed to be taken seriously.

Thank god.