Is this the best quote in the history of comics?

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>When you see me coming?
>Run.

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>>87587175
That's not even Cap's best quote.

>>87587175
I could post pictures of every specimen of fish ever captured on film and it still wouldn't be enough to match this thread's bait.

It totally falls apart when you realize it can be applied to any ideology and not just the one you agree with.

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>>87588577
So? I a /pol/ as fuck and I am showing that to my cuck friends and telling them to send letters to their representatives saying not to work with Trump and that the entire point of the second amendment is to shoot ICE because even illegals have the basic human right to keep and bear arms

>>87587228
How much money does he spend on bleach.

>>87588577
I don't see how that makes it fall apart. My friends and I have hugely differing opinions on a lot of issues, but I still respect them for standing up for what they believe. It's far better to have a country made up of principled individuals, whose beliefs regularly clash, than to be all of one mind, with no one to point out the flaws.

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I like this one better.

Seems much more emotional

>>87588919
seems gay desu

>>87588888
Because Nazis, John. While Cap standing behind the ideal you think for yourself and form your own opinions and ideas and not be bullied by authorities, propaganda, or mobs into compliance....some bad dudes might take that as justification for their beliefs too.
>>87588919
>My love for Bernie
Damn Berniebro, probably voted for Trump just to spite Hillary.

>>87588888
These digits.
Can't argue with these.

>>87587175
>history of marvel
Maybe. Superman have tons of better ones, and his quotes not even best in JL, not saying about DC.

>>87589116
>Because Nazis, John

None of us can claim to have perfect knowledge. Do you think the Nazis saw themselves as the villains? And if we can't claim to know with certainty that we are in the right, then it's better to make sure that we have open and vocal opponents.

The Nazis cracked down on freedom of speech within their own country because they were afraid of people like Cap. Go read about Die Weisse Rose, and imagine what Germany might have been like if everyone who thought like they did had stood up for what they believed.

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>>87587175
no

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>>87588301
>buy Born Again expecting an amazing Daredevil story
>Cap hijacks it in the last few issues and makes it even better

http://assets.amuniversal.com/98def430f868013014ce001dd8b71c47

>>87589710
That's sweet of Charlie but probably devastating to Patty.

>>87589587
>"A soldier that could command a god... and does."

Best line in reference to Cap?

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>>87587175
Lmao, that's not how it went.

Also Chris Evans is being a bitch on twitter, everyone spam his account with "The Holocaust Never Happened".

>>87588888
Well, there are a lot of people being terribly wrong to the detriment of society.
Tell those fucks that and they dig in their heels and prevent any betterment of society.
There is not just disagreement, there are clashing ideologies and people spreading false information, red herrings etc.
If everybody were to tell the world to move, nothing would ever give, no coalitions could form, no consensus emerge.
This ideal of a lone righteous man actually does some real harm when it mixes with delusion and/or firearms.
If every moron thinks it can't be him that's gone mad, has to be the world, then we get rednecks holing up in buildings and shooting on sight, and the likes.
If there is one thing US politics needs less of it's standoffishness and obstructionism.

>>87590539
>If there is one thing US politics needs less of it's standoffishness and obstructionism.

The House, Senate, and Executive branch are all now controlled by the GOP. Are you glad that there won't be an easy way to obstruct them and their goals? Are you excited to see one party with no real obstacles have at least two years of real change?

Obstructionism is good. It forces compromise. It forces the two parties to listen to each other and find the things that they can agree on.

>>87590610
You mean like in the last 8 years of nothing getting done?

>>87590282
Yeah, that'll make Cap proud, holocaust denial.

>>87588888
It's objectively false. If the entire world agrees on something except for that one holdout, then the holdout actually IS "wrong", because moral norms are dictated by society

>>87590801
Obama has signed hundreds of pieces of legislation. Just because he didn't get everything that you wanted done, doesn't mean that nothing has happened.

>>87590801
This.

A standoff is good in theory, but in practice it just leads to nothing being done. I blame the increasing polarization of American society.

>>87590892
Oh, ok, then I guess the Nazis were just fine, until they lost the war.

>>87590976
Nah, the Nazis never had the plurality of the world in favor of their morals

>>87590940
Is there something inherently good about the government getting things done? Do you find that they have a favorable track record?

>>87590976
>Has no counterargument
>Muh Nazis
I will give you partial credit for invoking Godwin's Law in context though. 3/10

>>87591042
I can use any other tyrannical government, Nazis are just easy shorthand who've already shown up within this chain of posts. If morals are decided entirely by society, then there's very little purpose in our criticizing people for acting a certain way within societies that normalized it.

You're even free to argue that this is correct, but in that case, there's no reason to criticize Cap's quote here, because as long as this is a popular sentiment in America, and it is, then he's right.

>>87590892
Well, theoretically you can be the one guy who stands on a superior principle.
Like, you can be the one guy who insists that the Nuremberg trials had no legal leg to stand on because they predated any international agreement under which the accused could be tried. And all the rest of the world wants to see Nazis hang.

The real problem is that you can't know your principle to be superior because you are the furthest thing from objective regarding your own opinion. Now what you would need to be able to righteously plant down your feet and insist on being right is some kind of objective outside perspective. Since you can't have that, yeah, chances are you are being retarded right now and dragging your feet like an obstinate child and you really should go metric and centigrade.

>>87590539
If god didn't want us to be stand offish why did he invent guns and give us the right to keep and bear them?

>>87591020
The world moves at the speed of shitposting these days. A government that can only pass the bare minimum of bills to keep itself afloat is going to fall behind.

>>87591138
mistranslation.
Bears have a right to firearms, and every man has a right to no more than one bear that may act on his behalf.

>>87591137
>you really should go metric and centigrade.

We will do that, as soon as you put a man on the moon, faggot

>>87591157
>fall behind

What does this even mean? Is there a certain level of progress a government is supposed to make?

There's no innate good in a government taking more upon itself. If the government has kept up the promises it's made in the past it has done its job.

>>87591020
A bad government is inherently superior to a deadlocked one.
No matter who holds the reigns, going beyond absolute minimum consensus and doing your damn job means you can react to a problem.
Not reacting is about the worst you can do.

>>87590539
But Cap doesn't advocate violence in his speech, just standing your ground. Allowing people to hold actual beliefs isn't a detriment if it leads to an actual debate of ideas rather than blind compliance because it's what everyone else says you should do. You act as though digging your heels in can only be in relation to stopping things from changing rather than holding onto ideals that would lead to betterment of society but simply aren't popular with the "right" people.

>>87591249
I absolutely disagree. I would rather have citizens be forced to deal with the situation themselves, than have to deal with the situation and the extra burden the bad government has created. The very definition of a bad government implies that they make the situation worse, and I don't see how that could possibly be better than the neutrality of doing nothing.

>>87587175
But in that regard then who was wrong in the American REvolution? Was it England who planted themselves and said, "you move" to the Colonies? Or was it America that planted themselves and said, "You move" to England?

>>87591116
See >>87591018

If the world decides that murder is wrong but one guy "knows" that it's RIGHT, and he refuses to go along, he's not being a patriot, he's being a loon. This argument doesn't work because it can be used to justify any belief, even those that are mutually exclusive. And yes, if the whole world suddenly decides that murder is okay but one guy disagrees, then the holdout is STILL wrong.

>>87589587
based miller.

>>87591137
This guy gets it

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>>87591329
But what if "murder" can be right?

>>87591329
The world doesn't dictate morals. Raping babies doesn't become right if the whole world does it

>>87591329
The murder is wrong, standing up for his opinion is not. You have to separate the two actions.

>>87587175
No. It's one of the worst.

>>87591018
But they had their own society.

>>87591226
If you can't act, you can't lead. If you don't lead or at least influence the global situation you are getting ignored, your interests falling by the wayside.
Especially the USA need to exert influence and project leadership or others will push you out of the halls of power.
Then you miss out on trade, lose influence on international projects and get generally walked over. Do you want to end up slinking back into the shadows to have China hog the spotlight?
And that's just internationally.
Not reacting to all the things happening in your country can make your country explode, or at least crumble.

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>>87591437

>>87591367
That's just it. If it's an opinion, then by definition, it CANNOT be right.

>>87591366
This was one of the key themes in 1984. Ultimately, reality is only as objective as people's perceptions of it. If the whole world believes a lie, then that lie has, in effect, become the truth. It's the same thing here

>>87591363
It's not, but rape is totally okay

On a side note, I'm glad we can have a civil and intellectual discussion about this. Really says something when a major US election is less civilized than a bunch of neckbeards on a mongolian tic tac toe board.

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>>87591470

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>>87591496

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>>87591518

>>87591452
The US has not aided its interests through its global intervention. We would have been better off if the deadlock had prevented us from sending troops to countries in the Middle East. You know how we got over there? Bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq.

There is absolutely no evidence that we would crumble by not constantly intervening in world affairs. None.

Who cares if other countries gain power? Do we need absolute hegemony?
When did Democrats become the party of hawks? You wouldn't have been saying this stuff eight years ago, when Obama was running as a dove.

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I think this is the best Cap quote.

>>87591471
>If it's an opinion, then by definition, it CANNOT be right.

I'm not saying the opinion is right, I'm saying that the action of standing up for it is right. We can hash out the opinion stuff later, but if the debate is going to happen, and it needs to if we want to reach the truth, then we need people to stand up for what it is they believe.

>>87588577

technically the quote is about belief, and yes that it can be said for any IDEOLOGY, so that makes it circular reasoning and self-fulfilling.

what should be said here is that ideology falls apart when a dialactic materialist starts to deconstruct it.

>those fucks that dig in their heels
are always right wing idealists. (liberals are right wing idealists too because they're capitalists)

>>87590610
>obstructionism is good
no it isn't unless it's rational. neither liberals or conservatives are rational, both are guilty of wanting to take rights away from others and start wars

>>87590931
he signed a lot of executive orders

>>87590940
>i blame the increasing polarization of american society
that could have been avoided with actual left wing politics and scientific worldview

>>87591020
>government getting things done
>do they have a favorable track record

roads, schools and resource management are real tangible things

>>87590892
>>87590976
>>87591018

as it turns out, the 3rd reich became powerful because of the u.s. corporation IBM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gNXfrMR_Lw

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Nope, this is.

>>87590282
This isn't /b/

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>>87587175
>>87588301
>>87590282

facts, people. stop letting your feelings rule your lives.

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>>87591633
That sounds like something a FILTHY FUCKING COMMIE would say. You're not a FILTHY FUCKING COMMIE, are you anon?

>>87591633
>he signed a lot of executive orders

That's not legislation

>roads, schools and resource management are real tangible things
Compare private and public schools. Compare public and private resource management.

But even if you want to say that the government does these things well, how do they stack up against the pointless deaths caused by war in the Middle East? Or the negative economic effect of our massive debt? Or the destabilization of other countries, or interning our own citizens for their race alone, or the fruitless drug war, or any of the unending list of things that our government has done with good intentions in mind. Intentions aren't enough, and the federal government has consistently shown itself to be incompetent. I would rather they restrict themselves to the basics of keeping a society together, rather than see them continue to fuck up our country over and over again.

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>>87591752

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>>87591754
>not legislation
i know. i was saying he hasn't passed much legislation

>compare private and public
okay, and?
>compare public and private resource management
yeah, private resource management has lead to extinction, pollution and desertification

>how do these things stack up against deaths caused by war in the middle east
you mean the war started by capitalists over resources?
you mean the war that saw heroin sales skyrocket in russia and the prime minister of afghanistan's brother on the CIA payroll for selling heroin?

>federal government incompotent
yes, when it is controlled by corporate proxies, bad things happen. subverting the state is a business model

>>87591849
The hundreds of pieces of legislation I mentioned him as signing are real pieces of legislation, not executive orders.

You can make the argument that there is such a thing as pure government unaffected by corporations, but ultimately there's no example of it in existence. There's no way to make it happen, and that's because it's not a subversion of the government. It's natural that any corporation would want to ally itself with a monopoly, and governments are inherently monopolistic, with all of the flaws that entails.

>>87591633
Yeah, real helpful because we can all absolutely determine the veracity of anyone claiming to speak for the purest dialectic materialism.
And we can all agree that dialectic materialism is right in the first place.
The point was from the beginning that nobody outside fiction is defined as the hero and right, rendering that whole quote impractical because it invites absolute insistence on one's principles. For everyone. At all times.
Sure it sounds good, but if everyone does it it sucks for all.

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>>87591938
i agree. capitalists created the state.

>there's no way to make it happen
and money is imaginary. there is nothing you can do to make it real.

>>87591989
Gold standard.

>>87591018
>most of the world was on the Nazi's side until they attacked France

sure thing, bud.

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>>87592001
and when new gold is mined, the value is inflated.

try again.

>>87591989
In which case there's no reason to advocate for the state gaining more power. Obstructionism is just fine by me.

>>87592015
Neutrality is not the same thing as support.

I highly doubt the majority of the world governments were in favor of genocide against the Jews/Slavs up until the invasion of France.

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>>87592026
except there is, because the state is controlled by the ruling class, which extort citizens and extract the surplus product from the workers, call it their own, and lie about why there need to be wars.

take the state away from the elite. obstructionism is basically luddite stupidity. you'd rather stay in the dark ages if only to keep your paranoia about the state valid. nevermind the fact that states to provide services that offer stability and vicariously create an environement conducive to scientific advancement, if only the capitalists weren't obstructing THAT, with manufactured scarcity and planned obsolescence

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>>87587175
Really a quality quote

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>>87592152
trump is shit. he only won because clinton was shittier.

get a grip.

>>87592131
>take the state away from the elite

So this is pretty much the linchpin where you and I disagree. Even if you take the state away from the current elite, something which I don't think is possible without revolution, the existence of a state and its monopoly means that anyone you put in charge of it automatically becomes a new elite, with their own whims and desires.

Obstructionism is the only currently viable method for preventing serious monopolistic excesses.

>>87592181
lpbp?

Seriously, how soon before /pol/ turns on him? I give it 3 months into his presidency.

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>>87592181
It's actually fitting. Not in the spirit of the character or the message or anything but Trump's whole campaign was shit on by the Press, Politicians, and Mobs of people. Only a handful of countries had a decent approval rating of him. And the fucker still won.
Plus the shit posting is too great. Like a month straight of all of 4chan ringing their hands for when he loses so they can go rub /pol/'s nose in it. Then the unthinkable happens and /pol/ just gets to gloat after YEARS of shitposting and ruining every board with this shit they get to do it harder than ever because
/pol/ is always right

>>87592021
You are moving the goal posts.
Gold always has material value, thereby making money real.
Of course it follows supply and demand like everything.
If your gold reserve is stable, yes, additional gold impacts the value of money, provided demand does not expand proportionally. Which you can fix by buying up gold or regulating the market.
In any case, the money is tied to a specific amount of gold that actually exists. Making it real, a thing of actual value.
Not fixed value, mind you.

>>87592152
trump moved on every stance he claimed to stand for

>>87592340
Those were just suggestions, not stances.

>>87592340
Trump could swing back and forth like a weathervane and still be behind Clinton in terms of position changes.

>>87592001
Gold has little inherent value.

>>87592420
I don't wanna get into a debate here cause I am so sick of /pol/shit not being on /pol/ but we both know thats not true. Trump consistently contradicted himself, sometimes within the same speech.

>>87592340
Not the one that mattered: his determination to dismantle the current system. Whatever you feel about that, you can't deny that he was consistent on that.

>>87592369
And that's the thing.
Trump has no principles beyond his personal interests.
And unlike Clinton he's not even good at faking them.
He just tells people what he thinks they want to hear in order to get his deal.
He said so much contradictory shit, it's hard to imagine what will actually happen.

>>87591018
So if the world was taken over by Nazis, that makes them right?

>>87591471
Orwell was saying the opposite.

>>87592340
He didn't move on the stance of telling the establishment to go fuck itself

Because he just did that

>>87592526
No, he wasn't. That was the whole point of the torture scenes in MiniLove.

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>>87587175
>being an intransigence cunt who doesn't take the opinions of others into account is a good thing

>>87592562
How?

It's not a good quote because it doesn't fit Cap at all, it's more suited for Frank or if that was Jack Monroe instead of Steve but more than that it doesn't even fit Americas ideals. America is supposed to change and evolve, that's why we can amend our constitution.

>>87592544
he hired TPP lobbyists to pick his new cabinet

>>87592562
Someone saying something doesn't make it true.

>>87592602
Did you even READ the book?

>>87592603
It fits the American Spirit very well. You should spend some time in other countries that don't value fierce debate, I think you would be surprised to see how well this quote fits us.

>>87592495
This implies they would have an actual societal consensus on their side as opposed to just forcing their party line on people they conquered.
If their ideology had been a thing that was acceptable to people not deemed of superior race, they wouldn't have been so bad. But that was not the case.

>>87592673
Yes. Orwell didn't believe thoughts create reality, that was just was Ingsoc believed.

They weren't meant to be right; they were the villains.

>>87592685
So you're saying that whatever the most people believe is right is actually right?

>>87592682
No it doesn't, that quote doesn't even seem to encourage any kind of debate or compromising. It implies that both sides should never waiver no matter what. It's simply not a good Cap quote.

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>>87592738
>Orwell didn't believe thoughts create reality, that was just was Ingsoc believed.

>They weren't meant to be right; they were the villains.

If this is bait, 9/10. If not, I think you need to take remedial literary analysis

>>87592660
I don't care about the TPP

I care about John Oliver's impotent wails

>>87592565
Nobody said that anon.

>>87592764
Not bait. OK, villains aren't always wrong about everything.

Do you believe that Ingsoc's lies actually changed reality to fit what they were saying?

>>87592757
No, I'm saying that Nazi ideology would have to change drastically to be acceptable to a majority of the world population.
If humans could agree to a fascist ideology that enslaves them, they would need to be a very different species for which that might in turn be the right thing to believe.

>>87590892
>muh moral relativity

Nah; that's retarded. Murder and rape make you evil; standing up against insane, unprincipled mobs make you good.

The entire essence of what makes heroes heroic is that they represent a higher moral and altruistic standard than average, and put their foot down when normal people and villains will not. That's what makes OP's quote so fitting for an unironic goody goody like Cap.

>>87591191
Except the science and maths that put you on the moon were all in metric. Even the money that got you up there is measured in decimal.

Checkmate imperinigger

>>87592951
I might have confused you with another anon.

>>87587175
no dude, thats a big nono... that is unreasonable narcissism. the best quote is "with great power..."
don't be so impressionable, is only ok if you are 12yo

>>87592321
>you are moving goalposts

no. money is imaginary. there is no way the supply of money cannot be manipulated. even with bitcoin, the bitcoins themselves are split in to infinite values while simultaneously their advocates claim that there is a finite number of them. even then only the people with the servers and processing power are going to mine any significant amount. at least what isn't already owned by the government.

>if gold reserves are stable

but that has never happened in history. there has never been a stable capitalist market. ask yourself who's shifting goalposts, anon.

>>87593041
>unreasonable Narcissism
Forming your own opinions and not letting Peer Pressure rule you seems pretty sensible.

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>>87592267
>the existence of a state and its monopoly means that anyone you put in charge of it automatically becomes a new elite, with their own whims and desires.

not if there's an egalitarian economy. once most of people's needs are met, that's the end of tyranny. look up "post-scarcity" and resource based economy. i would even say green technocracy is feasible as well.

>Obstructionism is the only currently viable method for preventing serious monopolistic excesses.

except luddites tried to destroy stop automation and the result is the same. scientific progress is inevitable. you only harm yourself and those around you by trying to hoard an outmoded task. it really shows how simple people are that they'll blame technological advancement for making them unemployed instead of the economic and social conditions that forced them to live in poverty or "work" for a living is what put them in that situation in the first place.

>>87593090
By stable he means doesn't change in quantity very much since gold is mined slowly.

>>87593109
everyone is wrong, except you? thats a lot of credit for yourself, if its justified thats ok, coming from a dude that was frozen 50 fucking years...might be doubtful

>>87593186
oh really? i thought stable meant, like, security and confidence in the market such that people could make a living.

oh wait, that didn't happen either.

>gold is mined slowly

EXCELLENT. so what anon has been accusing other people of, that leaders of the state could magically become dictators with the snap of their fingers could be accomplished just as quickly if not easier with the private ownership of gold mines.

protip: the owner of the gold mine is going to have their own security personnel, land, and probably will run the state.

>>87593176
By egalitarian economy, do you mean free market?

>>87587175
Cap's best quote was his ending speech in Earth-X.

>>87593212
That's not what's being said at all though.
In the context of the whole speech he's talking about how we have a duty to form our convictions and not let them be swayed by frivolities or blind conformity. All of us, not just him. It's essentially a more poetic version of "if everyone jumped off a cliff would you?"

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>>87592918
This is all explained fairly clearly in the book. Sparknotes has a pretty good summary if you want to look that up. Here's a hint to get you started: The book is about the dangers of communism.

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>>87593264
no. i specifically named post-scarcity resource based economy

a market for liberty necessarily means that those who cannot participate in the market have no liberty. in other words, the "free market" is only "free" for the ones who control it.

>>87593212
>when coming from a literal superhero who has saved the world multiple times, whilst repeatedly demonstrating extreme levels of self-sacrifice, him being the good guy this time might be doubtful

>>87593312
Wrong.
It's about the "dangers" of Socialism.
And by dangers, I mean a full-blown strawman

>>87593312
>dangers of a stateless society
>ingsoc is an arm of the state

hmmm.... makes you think

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It isn't, but it's applicable.

Everyone believed Trump was going to lose but /pol/ kept pushing and fighting. They deserved the win. And I know that's why you're here asking it.

>>87593391
you mean clinton deserved to lose

/pol/ doesn't deserve shit and neither does trump

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So /co/ quote thread?

>>87593455
>you mean clinton deserved to lose
>/pol/ doesn't deserve shit and neither does trump

accurate

morality is no more arbitrary than the laws of logic

the fact that you use such terms as right and wrong is evidence that there are objective standards - this applies to logic, and by logical extension, to ethics

if you disgree with that, then you are saying i am objectively wrong

but that would be self-defeating, since if you say i am objectively wrong in my argument, you are asserting there is an objective standard - which you then employ to deny objective standards

relativism is logically incoherent and doesn't stand up to scrutiny

>>87592764
>actually believing that Orwell thought that O'Brien was right

Do you also believe that Orwell agreed with the pigs in Animal Farm?

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1MB, 3350x2703px

I only got quotes in general

The quote is about standing for your principles, because if you're one of these sniveling trolls who abandon their beliefs at the first sign that those beliefs will cost you something, then those aren't actually your valued principles worth fighting for.
If you've read your classic Captain America stories you've seen innumerable villains abandon their goals at the first sign of personal danger, but the defining heroic trait of Steve Rogers is that he never gives up, no matter the odds, no matter the risks.
That's why Captain America always wins the day. That's what principles are all about.

>>87587175
>using avengers movie cap and his meme costume
why?

>>87592470

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uT68riwrFI

>we both know thats not true

I wonder if Trump has contradicted himself enough to create more than an hour of nonstop lies.

>>87587175
"You have to get out of here, your vagina is haunted!"

>>87593344
To be fair, Orwell regarded himself as a socialist and thought he was writing an anti-Stalinist book. It just got used as an anti-socialist book during the Cold War. The biggest problem with the book is that he conflated fascism and Stalinism, which makes it a bit of a mess politically. The eternal war shit was way more fascist than Stalinist, and the surveillance state was more Stalinist than fascist. I mean, I can understand why he might have feared that the future would look like that immediately after WWII, but it just doesn't hold up.