What went wrong?

>INB4 #WOKE

>>87540627
The creative team.

Nothing going right.

>>87540645
Is that a micro aggression?

>>87540627
It's Marvel.

>>87540627
This is just poor man's Teen Titans, it was bound to be awful.

Waid is the writer and Ramos is the artist

Where's Butterball?

>>87540627

The writer and editorial.

The general concept is fine and it wouldn't actually have been that hard to find a good set-up to get this team together as a result of Civil War 2.0: Electric Boogaloo, but Waid fucked it up and fucked it up hard.

It tries too hard to be hip and trendy with the kids to the point of being untintentionally comical and neglects since such as oh, I don't know, characterisation/plot/tonal consistency.

Also whoever decided to allow a book obviously aimed at kids and younger teens (and sold at Scholastic book fairs of all things) to start with a story about sex trafficking where one of the victims dies and the heroes got nothing better to do than check their twitter is fucking retarded.

>>87540645
>>87540665
go back to plebbit, faggots.

>how do you do fellow kids
>beyond that, multiple characters acting OOC
>dumb set up to the formation of the team, makes Kamala look totally irrational
immediately
>immediately begin doing typical superhero stuff they say they aren't going to do
>I'm not going to give a speech, but here's a giant speech #woke
>contrived camping trip
>pandering to shippers by the second issue

Other then poor sales, nothing

It's just that /co/ is vehemently anti-Marvel that we will shit on it regardless of actual quality. I can guarantee you that any other online community will have a more favorable opinion of the book

>>87540627

As someone who hates Ramos I think he fits this title pretty well. He has made a name for himself doing stuff like this anyway.

But seriously the problem is Waid. He squandered what could of been a strong start to a comic that needs one with shitty writing.

Nothing, it's pretty fun. I'd like another artist but Ramos isn't unreadable.

>>87540627
Creative team, concept, character lineup, publisher, spoiling Viv's survival

>>87541172
>It's just that /co/ is vehemently anti-Marvel
This is hysterical. Tell your boss to direct some of the shills they're paying to astroturf the MCU towards promoting the comics instead, maybe then you'll see the kind of discussion you're looking for.

>>87540627

nothing you retards only hate it because of stupid shit like this>>87540645

>>87541345
see >>87541045

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>>87541404
wow this one is going into the book

>>87540627
Waid writing teens.

Not enough teen Cyclops

>>87540627
I just wanted a fun, light book where young heroes have fun while they learn how to be heroes, like, idk, some dumb space adventure because Hulk jump too far and destroyed some poor alien's ship, or Viv finding Kamala's fanfics.

But it seems like it'll focus a lot on drama and social media, or whatever current event the writers want to talk about. I just don't have the patience to read about those topics.

>>87540627
>sandnigger
>nigger
>chink
>spic

>>87541517
not a argument

>>87540627
Did something go wrong?

Was a book cancelled? Did a new series turn out to be not good? What happened?

>>87540627
not muh tin tetanus

>>87541547
How is it not?

>>87541562
nothing just /co/ memes

>>87540627
Peter "Roma in a Coma" David should have written it

>>87541562
Big new Marvel book turned out to be kinda lame and bad.

>>87540627
Waid was too woke desu
The problem isn't that "he doesn't understand teenagers" or "he uses characters to soapbox".
It's simply that we're not woke enough.
It would be like a being which exists in the second dimension trying to comprehend third dimensional creatures and events.
Waid tells us this at the end of the first issue. That tweet was meant to evoke the spiritual transformation necessary to get Champions.
But because all of /co/ and reddit and comic book buyers are slept, they can't understand the blinding enlightening of Waid's Champions.
Some men just want to see the world get woke.

>>87541172

Pretty much this. It isn't a /co/ thing. It is a 4chan thing. 4chan's contrarian attitudes formed out of it's edgy phase like 10 years ago. Ever since then, it has always been about being whatever is NOT cool. If current philosophy is to "be yourself" /r9k/ REEEEEESS at the normies. It is year of political correctness? /pol/ and thus a large portion of /b/ becomes alt-right. Marvel has the largest market share? /co/ is all about DC and everyone is a Marvel shill. It's how 4chan works. If you want a good discussion, you have to avoid things that can be easily aligned with whatever "two parties" exist. Don't talk about DC in general, talk about Midnighter as a character. That sort of thing.

It's all about being contrarian. It is not to say that you can't legitimately have those views, but what's the easiest way to piss people off? Claim whatever a large amount of people enjoy, is shit and that the other not so popular thing is the place to be. Just troll back and forth and waste time, not even talking about comics but trying to piss people off over comics.

tl;dr VSAUCE here, I am going to end it all tonight. Goodbye.

>>87541592
I wish Zeb Wells would come back. He could have done this right.

>>87541562
Champions is a new team Marvel started that suffers massively from the author having no idea how kids speak or interact as well as generally weak writing.

>>87540627 (OP)
Waid took a book whose main selling point was the character interactions, and decided to throw out half of the characters' characterizations in favor of shoe-horning them into the roles Waid needed for the story (Kamala as a Cap-style "gives two speeches an issue and parades around holier than thou moral policing"; Cho as a pure Chad; Viv as a generic cold and super-analytical robot)

That combined with Waid trying his fucking hardest to sound like he knows what's "hip" with the kids despite being a middle-aged manchild that wasn't even hip when he was young. Causes the whole thing to be cringey as fuck, being too disconnected to appeal to the "kids these days" while not being disconnected enough to just work as a standard superhero team-book.

Ramos doesn't help either.

But most importantly ChoxViv is a FUCKING GARBAGE SHIP WHAT THE FUCK WAID

All that said, none of these things are issues that can't be fixed going forward. Whether or not Waid actually fixes them waits to be seen though.

>>87541620
>I am going to end it all tonight
The only way to escape the horror that is Mousevel.

>>87541045
Wtf is #woke, i dont use twitter and i've never browsed plebbit.

>>87541172
Oh bullshit, the premise of the book is that Kamala thinks capes should be more socially conscious in their tactics ie not destroying property and then in the second issue they fucking destroy a city block, that alone makes the book a failurw from a writing perspective, Waid can't keep the narrative straight!
Then he has a 20+ year old Cho hook up with a teenager?

So what happened to Delphyne?

>>87541448
yeah put it in the meme book since you can't counter any of the points, faggot

>>87541620
According to your logic, /co/ should praise Marvel since they are second place, instead people are shitting on them
I'm gonna take a guess and say that this happened Marvel output right now isn't really good and above all isn't appealing to Marvelfags

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>>87541719

>>87541562
Marvel wanted Teen Titans, it turned out to be shit, got worse, /co/ is laughing.

>>87541727
>o shit he got me
>better meme at him even though I just said he was wrong because if memes
Lql

>>87541517
Don't forget toaster and white cis heterosexual mutant

>>87541683
"Woke" as in awaken as in awaken to the truths of the world's problems. Kinda like the reverse of "sheeple"

>>87541723
>/co/ should praise Marvel since they are second place
That only follows if /co actually READS COMICS, dingus.

Marvel's been eating DC's lunch at the box office for years which is why /co hates Avengers and falls all over themselves making excuses for BvS and Sqwad.

>>87541738
>Marvel wanted Teen Titans
It's not like DC's done much with them in the last 20 years, anon.

Unless you like TTG which would be it's own punishment, really.

>>87541816
>That only follows if /co actually READS COMICS, dingus.
simply epic

>>87541851
shit you're right :(

guess I should have said "a popular teen hero book" or something

>>87541754
>white cis heterosexual mutant HITLER
get it right.

>>87541702
Is he 20+? He was young enough in Incredible Herc that him being Herc's "eromenos" would be illegal.
It's still creepy, though.

>>87541723

I don't mean to make you an example, but this is also another issue. Not 4chan but more internet based. If I was talking to you face-to-face, you would understand my analogy, but given the text based communication, you can scan over my words a few times to find something and push the analogy past its limits to make it twisted.

I did not say that as soon as something happens 4chan swings the other way. The contrarian thing is a slow thing. 4chan use to be called alt-left about 8 years ago if you remember.

All I am saying is, it is hard to have a discussions about large bipartisan topics here because it is easy for people to polarize themselves for the sake of trolling or just standing out.

For example: you say you enjoy DC movies. Another guys comes and says crap like

>DC
>good
pik 1

and then next thing you know, it is two guys wanking back and forth with memes claiming that DC is shit or Marvel is shit and this is shit and they are shit and it is all shit and the thread is gone.

It is just a big (and unfortunate) problem on 4chan because polarization is one of the few ways to easily get noticed. I've seen good threads die with 10 posts and multiple of these company war threads go past the bump limit. I wasn't offering solution, just adding upon the speculation of what the first anon said about why I think things seem so harsh here.

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>>87541816
>/co
Man, I know you're used to shilling on Reddit but you can at least try and get the local terminology right.

>>87541889
>Is he 20+?
No, he's cannon 18/19 (literally a teenager) and she's supposed to be the equivalent of 16; but that doesn't fit the narrative dogpile.

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>>87541894
>>87541816
>>87541751

>>87541889
Yeah I think he should be 20 at the oldest from that.

>>87541683
It's the liberal/Black Twitter version of "red-pilled"

>>87541942

I'm >>87541894

The other two are talking about something else. I was talking about 4chan polarization.

>>87541914
>trying this hard to fit in
wew, lad.

>>87541922
A legal adult macking on a 16-year-old is still pretty creepy, though.

>>87541994
Don't forget that she was actually built a few months ago and is only programed to think if herself as 16.

>>87540627
I've been out of touch with marvel so I'm assuming thats hulking representing gays in that SKW team, but what exactly does Scott bring into the fold?

Does being a mutant somehow improve diversity or something?

>>87540627
Waid hasn't talked to a teenager since high school.

>>87540997
The way it's written makes you think that it's satire. The characters are such self-absorbed, melodramatic, unlikable cunts who come off as doing this shit more for social media likes and virtue signalling over actually giving a shit.

But where that'd redeem it and make it a pretty good parody, you realize that Waid is being completely earnest and the entire thing falls apart. Not to mention he doesn't get any of the characters he's writing, Cho especially.

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>>87541975
>literally going for the "no u" defense
Uh oh, don't tell me you're up for review this week? You'll have to do better if your job's on the line, Mr. Shill!

>>87542035
Not Hulkling, Amadeus Cho has replaced the dead Bruce Banner as Hulk.

>>87542053
So it is X-Statix?

>>87542070

he replaced bruce banner and then banner died

>>87541894
Shut the fuck up nigger

>>87542064

I'm not the guy you are replying to, but that image is actually really bright, and I ended up looking like the guy in the image.

>>87542035
Hulking is in New Avengers
That's Amadeus Cho, BFF to Hercules and current Hulk.

Scott's the only one with any leadership experience, and in the Marvel universe mutants are the most hated minority.

>>87542085

I don't think you are the same person I was speaking with, but no need to get testy. We're just talking.

>>87542070
Ok cool, so he's representing the asian crowd and I guess superscience can easily rationalize how he got his powers but how is Scott part of team diversity?

Did they replace cyclops with some asexual dude?

>>87541738
>Marvel wanted Teen Titans
>it turned out to be shit
So you're saying Marvel got what they wanted? Teen Titans hasn't been good, at a minimum, for 25 years.

>>87542115
Cyclops is a mutie terrorist, even before considering the possibility of being mentally abnormal.

>>87542115
Well Mutants are heavily persecuted, but the jury's still out on if Waid is tone-deaf enough to have the Mutant be a stand in for white male privilege.

Are you up to date enough to know that there's an adult Cyclops and a teen Cyclops pulled from the past, both running around at the same time?

>>87542180
Bigclops is dead.

>>87542180
Nah senpai, last I read was Siege.
>Teen cyclops
Sounds cool, I tolerate that series just to read about how he reacts to the modern world. Hook me up with a reading order willya.

Did Emma or Ororo try to go after his teen D?

>>87542235
Fuck pls no

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>>87542115
Cyclops is dead and, according to Breevort and Waid, he was the worst villain to ever exist in the Marvel Universe(which means worse than Hitler, Red Skull, Kang, Ultron and Thanos). Yes, it doesn't really make any sense

>>87542235
Well yeah but that's supposed to be a spoiler you silly billy!

>>87542263
But they were talking about that since the beginning of the post- SW era.

>>87542042
I don't think he talked to them while he was IN high school.

>>87542074
No because X-Statix, at its core, was satire. This is like X-Statix if Milligan's satire was completely by accident.

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>>87541683

and you never read champions either

>>87541517

what an antisemitic roster

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>>87540627
Hulk became chinese
Marvel became muslism
Spiderman became nigger latino
Nova became latino

If you wan't diversity then add new legit original heroes if they are as good as you claim them to be then they will succeed. But they won't, and you know why? because they are shit characters that wouldn't sell a shit without a famous name sticked to them.

Pic related, diversity done right.

>>87542487
Can we replace Luke Cage's wife with Moon Knight or Punisher or something?

>>87542487
I bet you don't like Robbie Reyes, either.

>>87542487
>diversity done right
>three white people and a walking stereotype

>>87542544
A woman, a black man, a blind and a caucasican

>>87542251
X 23 tried but he didn't even noticed

>>87542251
>Did Emma or Ororo try to go after his teen D?
Now that I think about it, more interesting question would be how wolverine reacted to kid Scott.

Did he do the dad thing or did he try to push him around?

>>87542530
I don't like any replacement for old heroes, regardless of their origin, race or gender.

If you replace Storm with a blonde male I'll be mad too.

>>87542669
That would just be called Thor.

>>87542251

>Hook me up with a reading order willya.

all-new x-men #1

>>87541045
>I'm not going to give a speech, but here's a giant speech
Kamala does the same damn thing in the second issue.

>"Don't make me the one that complains about everything!" she complained.
>Makes another speech
>Sam: Wow Kamala you should totally be a Captain America!

>>87540627
They decided to take a bunch of decently written characters are reduce them to the breakfast club personalities without the character development. Then they decided to use these crappy personalities as mouthpieces for some SJW propaganda and 'micro-aggressions'.

The turned Cho into a stupid jock, Ms. Marvel into a femnazi that can smell testosterone and hates it, they turned Viv into tumblr personified, they turned Miles into a blank slate that does nothing except shrug half the time, and they continued on the tradition of bullying Nova in the book that is supposed to be anti-bullying.

>>87542251

>Did Emma or Ororo try to go after his teen D?

Teen Jean went after mature D

>>87540658
/thread right here

>>87542715
>they turned Miles into a blank slate that does nothing except shrug half the time
That's a new thing?

>>87542669
So you don't like Danny Ketch or Guy Gardner or Wally West? Honest question.

>>87542715
Viv is more cliche robot with only one actual tumblr-esque line and seemed to be a derailed jjoke

>>87542666

>how wolverine reacted to kid Scott.

you don't want to know

>>87541894
>4chan use to be called alt-left about 8 years ago
HAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nah, man.

>>87542774
I like Wally as a person, don't like him as Kid Flash though. Although, I didn't like previous Kid flash either. Impulse, now, that was a good disciple.

Honestly, don't remember who the other two are

>>87542815

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>>87543636
>>87542815

forgot pic

>>87542446
Why does Cho look like a kid and Kamala like a short and brown Carol Danvers?

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>>87541517

>>87542795
yes we do

>>87542623
You have a point. I'm getting flashbacks of the Burger King Kids Club all over again.

>>87546738

He suggested murdering him to erase big Cyclops from existence so he wouldn't kill Xavier.

>>87540784
i miss him too, anon.
but i don't know if i want to see him here.
he was a mess of insecurities and stuff, but he does his damn best to be an average human being. while everyone else in this team is doing their damn best to be their very own mess.

>>87546948
what logan? the old man logan?

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>>87541172
>Quality

>>87541851
>>87542116
TT has been shit for awhile yeah but it is still the most recognizable teen super hero group.

Marvel's most sucessful comics with teen super heroes were New Mutants and Generation X and then there was New Warriors but they fucked that shit up and now they want to make an awful comedy show that you bet is going to fuck up the team in the comics for years to come (which won't really matter I guess since Marvel likes to shit on the New Warriors as much as DC does with the Teen Titans).

DC at least launched a TT cartoon and a YJ cartoon which makes people more familiar with those teams, Marvel has no equivalent of that, they tried with YA (which is even more shit than the TT), then the Young Allies, then YA again, and now they're doing Champions.

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>>87540627