Who is your favorite type of villain?

>>87502800

Why the dragon from DA:O?

>Dr. Freeze
>Great Tier

He's shit tier is what he is. The first time he gets caught and goes "MUH WIFE" you can sympathize, but after the 100th time and after he murders cops he's just doing it for money.

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>>87502800
>oooh lookit me, I'm going to put the most popular villains in the worst tiers, I'm so edgy and different

>>87502800
I know that the two of the three characters I am referencing are from /a/ and /tv/ but fuck it. My three favorite villains are those who are like Bates, monsters who are treated as monsters by both the narrative and are legimately terrifying, Akio, villains who tempt and seduce others and Hannibal Lecter (TV Series), villains who have morality, just one that is absolutely alien and ego-centric.

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>>87502800
>categorizing the motivations of villains instead of their actual fucking personality
Like nigga what, you can't just say that since his/her motivation is simple, that makes him/her a "bad villain", what kind of retarded logic is that?

>>87507509
>Dr. Freeze
>Dr.

>>87502800
the well-written kind

>>87506629

Well, presuming it's the archdemon (which I think is reasonable), it's literally a god which has been transformed into a screaming, mindless animal who wants nothing else but endless destruction for its own sake. It has no deeper motives, nothing recognizable or understandable. It's not interesting in and of itself; you could never hold a conversation out of it.

It's basically a rabid dog which has the ability to spread rabies to the entire world.

Everything that's interesting about the Dragon Age series is interesting because of the ways that characters respond to this sort of threat, not the threat itself.

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Best villain.

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Real list coming through.

>>87502800
I think villains who are just evil has a lot more potential than people expect. Some people are just fucking dicks.

>>87508243
Hey I actually like that villain tier list. That's really unusual.

>>87508243
What the

It's like you're not even trying to bait anyone!

What are you doing?!?

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>>87508243
>Lex is a villain
when will this maymay end

That wasn't Gandondorf's motive

>>87508243
I like this list a lot better The argument of theme gets overlooked to often sadly it only applies to hero villain narratives.

>there is no villain

nvm

>>87508243
Doomsday has unlimited power and tires to destroy. Superman has unlimited power and tries to save. I don't even like Doomsday but it's easy to get that.

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>Elder god tier
>not villains who tricked the whole world and convinced them that they were heroes

>>87509779
Are you saying that Hillary is a good villain?

>>87502800
I have an affinity for villains who are evil for the sake of it, but know it and completely redeem it by being really cool and memorable as shit. Like Darkseid or Faora in MoS. I love it when villains just don't give a shit. I love classic villains.

I recognize that villains who have understandable motives and whom are actually sympathetic are much better, though.

>>87507904
He earned that title and put it to use. Respect it, fag.

this implies AKU, SHAPESHIFTING MASTER OF DARKNESS, isnt top tier

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What about a villain whose motives are "I want a coat made of puppies"

>>87509868
she'd be mid tier
she's following her nature to sacrifice for the greater good that is fashion

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In my opinion, the best villains are the ones who operate on their own logic and morality, have justifications for their monstrous actions that only they can find rational and seem like pure evil to anyone but themselves.
Bonus points if they are as much of pure nightmare as pic related.
Then again, that like everything else depends on execution.

>>87502800

How good a villain is is 100% down to writing and execution.
Hence sometimes Jokers great, sometimes he's shithouse.
A villain whos just evil becauae hes evil thats written and pulled off well will be better than a villain whos motives you agree with that written terribly.

>>87509865
This is actually probably the best counterargument against this list, because Aku definitely should be god tier.

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>>87509779
You called?

>>87509088
That's really reaching, especially since Superman saves people by destroying things (including Doomsday) a large chunk of the time.

>>87506629
>>87508092
Loghain was the real antagonist in Dragon Age, and he falls firmly in Great Tier, as he only does the things he does because he truly belives it's the only way to save Ferelden.

>>87510700
To bad he was a retard about it. Killed the King and all the people who could end a Blight because MUH ORLESIANS. And don't forget Howe.

>>87509961
>on execution
I see what you did there.

>>87510797
True, but in his defense nobody aside from the Grey Wardens knows that only a Grey Warden can permanently kill an Archdemon.

>>87510832
Which really seems like a retarded thing to keep secret.

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>>87502800


Adachi was a fucking awful villain. He was just some last minute reveal because they ran out of named characters and his motivations where basically a tantrum

I swear P4 babies wouldn't know a bad guy if it walked up and lit them on fire

>>87510856
Yep, that and keeping Corypheus a secret.

>>87510913
I didn't even know about the true ending until long after I'd beaten the game and had lost all desire to try again.

>>87502800
I've always liked mid/creature tier villains.

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>>87502800
Black Manta

>>87510700

Not really, his overt hatred of the Orlesians completely fucked Ferelden over.

Even if you take into consideration that Loghain didn't know about the reality of the archdemon, the fact remains that he didn't trust the Grey Wardens ((who are experts)) when they warned of the significance of the Archdemon + the fact that this was a real blight, not just darkspawn incursions like the king thought.

He also didn't trust the Orlesians enough to even get any help from them for the fight, even when the darkspawn were properly spreading out. Again, he may have emotional reasoning behind that, but a blight isn't the time to hold emotional grudges, and if Loghain had admitted that, he probably could have saved a LOT of lives.

And, in general, he caused a lot of discourse between the lords in Ferelden and basically started a civil war, again, in the middle of a fucking blight.

>>87508092

I feel like the archdemon would be in mid tier, it's literally just following it's nature, unfortunately that nature is to just cause complete destruction and kill everything, as it is when an old god is corrupted.

It doesn't seem to want power at all, just to go on a rampage due to basically being driven insane by the darkspawn.

>>87510916
Isn't that more on the Champion and Varric though?

>>87511487

Not really, it was the Wardens keeping Cory a secret in the first place, and as it was, they legit couldn't really do anything about him because he could mind control them.

Hawke + Varric didn't really have anyone to tell overall, the Wardens already knew about him, and any country rulers would probably be A-OK with him being sealed in the middle of the desert somewhere, maybe at most they'd beef up security or something to stop shit like those Carta guys who stumbled across him.

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>>87502800

The sympathetic villain. They're not even the final boss. They're arguably heroic, but their methods clash with the 'main' characters.

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>>87502800
>I never played Wind Waker
That image is gay and so are you

>>87511438
>the fact remains that he didn't trust the Grey Wardens

The grey wardens are a cult of spooky mystics who dabble in black arts and kill their own applicants to keep their cover. I don't trust the Gray Wardens and I was one.

>>87507904
>mister doctor
BRAVO MARVEL

>>87511574

I'm not saying the Grey Wardens aren't weird and/or creepy, but they are an organization that has historically existed for centuries, and whose ONLY purpose is to kill darkspawn/fight blights.

When you're dealing with the weird mysterious monstrosities that are darkspawn, you'd expect the people who DO have to deal with that to be weird and mysterious too.

It, again, comes down to Loghain not even trying to understand that people and groups can change from how they were, and generally his paranoia and isolationist mindset that Ferelden didn't need help from outside sources when it clearly did.

Even without knowing all the details of the Archdemon, Loghain should have understood that the darkspawn weren't a threat he could outmaneuver, and their danger came from sheer numbers. As we see Duncan tell us, the Darkspawn numbers had been growing exponentially after every battle, and looked to outnumber the forces they had at Ostagar, but Loghain didn't think they needed help. Even when the Darkspawn were tearing ass through the Bannorn he thought they could still take care of it without outside help.

Honestly, it's just an embarrassing failure on the part of Loghains paranoia and distrust of basically everyone who wasn't from Ferelden, as well as a gross over-estimation of his leadership skills and tactics.

>>87508665
Lex is an antagonist, not a villain.

All lists are shit.

>>87511778
He literary bonded with Brainiac, a being that annihilates whole planets, to be able to fight Superman better, how is he not a villain?

>>87511662
Thing is though. Wadern's a loose canons. What's to say the Orlesians and the orlesian wardens wouldn't decide that, pragmatically, taking over ferelden again would be the best vantage from which to take on the dark spawn.
That's a classic warden cunt move.

You forget that the MC was hardly indoctronated and that Alister wasn't really a warden so much as he was a walking sperm tank in case things went south and the wardens needed leverage.

>>87511574
This. Wardens are self serving cunts. If they can gain power and control they will. They have to missions. Kill dark spawn and consolidate power for the next arch demon assault.

>>87508092
Wouldn't it put him in the same category as Lavos?

By OP's standard, Darth Vader is Great Tier while Sheev is Shit Tier. I'm not sure if I can be okay with this.

>>87511949

> What's to say the Orlesians and the orlesian wardens wouldn't decide that, pragmatically, taking over Ferelden again would be the best vantage from which to take on the dark spawn.

Whatever concerns you could have about Orlesians legit do not matter in this context, they don't have the time or manpower to refuse even just minor re-enforcement from them, this kind of 'what if' paranoid attitude cost a huge chunk of Ferelden lives. Lets not forget, Loghain refused support from the Orlesians and even jailed ONE grey warden who was surveying what was going on, even when Ferelden was getting fucked over by darkspawn and ((because of Loghain)) all the lords were wasting time on a civil war.

>>87502800
I'm always a sucker for sympathetic villains, who are only the way they are now because they were wronged in the past.

>>87502800
Great tier: vilain that fit the story
Shit tier: vilain that doesn't fit the story

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>>87502800
thats a bad chart. what makes a villain good is not his motives but how the show pulls of the villain
korra's villains would be high ranking on that list but they are poorly executed. the villains usually have better motives than the protagonist and in korra's case it just makes you root for the villain and not the protag which creates a bad show
meanwhile the last airbender had a "shit tier" villain but he was much more thrilling to watch then korra's despite his motives just being simple world conquest.

>>87512012
Better a wounded Ferelden than one in chains you Orlesian traitor. How is it even paraniod? They were cast out not even a generation ago. The generals they send would be made of those who lead and fought against them in the rebellion.
Fucking Coomb-i-ahfaggot.

Logain was an objectively better leader than Marick's shitty son. If the duke of Redcliffe hadn't resisted and then gotten his house possessed things would have worked out quite differently.

>villains whose motives are hard to find fault in and arguably better than the hero's

>Adachi

He's a petty jackass who makes up excuses on the spot about the world being "boring" or having "gone to shit" so he doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions
He's a sociopathic manchild, there's plenty to find fault in

>>87512169
Rude. He's a lovely feller

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>>87502800
>Ganondorf
>In Shit Tier
>Villains who are just evil or lust for power
>Mr. I Coveted That Wind, I Suppose himself

>>87508243
Darkseid done well is one of the best because he has such a strong thematic connection to pretty much every hero.

>>87512169

I think that's the joke. People like to brag about cultured villains and the like, but most of those that you actually see in fiction are just petty sociopaths making excuses.

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>Elder God Tier

OPs image would ironically categorize a Lovecraftian, Elder God as Mid Tier at best. Sympathetic villains are nice, but if you want to make a villain that is actually scary, then its better to avoid adding sympathetic traits. The more you understand something the less frightening it becomes and the less threatening it appears to be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpEqpka8Dws

Making vampires, for example, sympathetic and relatable was the worst thing to ever happen to them.

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>>87502800
The villain who despite wanting to kill the hero, will gladly participate in a friendly match from time to time

>rating villians based on their motivations

What the fuck, that's retarded.

>>87512174

I'm pretty sure the image uses OoT Ganon for that reason as he didn't get that bit of backstory until WW

After that he becomes great/high tier according to the chart.

>Born king of an absolute shit land that has shit resources, fuckall fertile soil, and where the the fucking wind tries to kill you day and night
>"Well fuck that, and fuck you too godesses! If you're not helping then I'm fixing this myself!"
>Cue fall into demonic powers to get the triforce, cue fall into total darkness and powerlust.

Fuck Skyward sword by turning that fall into his fate all along

>>87512233
Lovecraft is overrated

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>>87512280
He had fantastic ideas though his execution left much to be desired. His greatest contribution, which was considerable, is that others were inspired to write his characters and to create original ones in the vain of his own.

>>87512280
Because the surface elements of Cthulu are overused as fuck, and barley anything else of the mythos is even considered.

>>87512299

>High tier

Jesus Christ his chldhood was absolute garbage. By the 4 flashback I was already rooting for him.

>>87502800
If a villain has a better point than the hero, then they're not a villain. Why do people praise villains based upon how "good" they are?

>>87512372
"Villain" is being used as shorthand for antagonist

>>87512299
Hater doesn't even really fit that list.

He's a villain entirely of his own will because he wants to be accepted in some way.
He's not reluctant at all.

>>87512372
Because they might still be willing to bring a massive amount of harm to a lot of people to achieve their goal.

Thread is forgetting that motivation isn't just what you want, it's also what you're willing to do to get it.

>>87502800
My favorite type of villain is the type who would do a 180 and team-up with the hero(s) if the world was in danger, love when that happens.

>>87502800
>>87508243 has you beat.

Honestly in my own tastes, my favourite sort of villain is the one who isn't all powerful or even justified but is fighting tooth and nail for what they want, and facing both outward and inward conflicts to do so.
The sort of villain that you could easily make the (non-heroic) protagonist of their own story.

Honestly I find "sympathetic" villains to be overrated. I don't care how tragic your backstory is if you still have a boring-ass personality and take predictable.
Invincible and infallible villains as well, they're just not engaging.

The best sort of villain should almost be a secondary protagonist, one that comes into conflict with your main hero.

>The Gang Takes The Bait
>>87508243
10/10 taste, anon

>>87512118

> Better a wounded Ferelden

More like a dead Ferelden, again, it's one thing to be distrustful of the orlesians, but Loghain takes it to another level when he doesn't even allow re-enforcements when Ferelden is getting raped by darkspawn.

> Logain was an objectively better leader than Marick's shitty son

All Loghain did as ruler was cause a civil war and further alienate ties with Orlais, whereas we see later that Cailan and Celene were in contact with each other and were discussing ways to actually try and fix the divide between the two countries without one taking over the other, and something great probably would have come of that if Loghain hadn't murdered him.

> Things would have worked out quite differently.

If the Hero of Ferelden and Co. weren't around, Ferelden would have fallen to civil war and/or the darkspawn, leaving a huge heaping mess for Orlais/Free Marches/Smaller countries to clean up, probably without the help of Tevinter or the Qunari. Instead of what actually happened, wherein the two grey wardens that Loghain tried to KILL dethroned him and successfully ended the blight in the shortest time that's ever been recorded.

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>>87502800
It's weird how despite murdering dozens of people including two of the protagonists' parents, Goro still isn't as grotesque a villain as Adachi is since he did all of it for the relatively banal motivation to get back at his dad.

Meanwhile, the second he learned that his two murders and light manipulations were going to bring about the end of human civilization, Adachi gave a thumbs-up to armageddon and fought to let it happen.

Just goes to show that it's the thought that counts.

>>87511376
The new52 justification is better than "autism who got diddled at sea" imo

Whether you like her or not, I think Lindsay had a pretty good go at describing a good villain/character.
>The key word here I would argue is motivation and this is an integral aspect to any compelling character; Walter White, Tony Soprano, Mystique, Loki. Whether their good guys or bad guys they're deeply motivated therefore their compelling therefore you kinda like em. Your character can have the most convoluted, deep, meaningful, intricate backstory of all the characters that have ever existed but if they don't want anything something, in a narrative that makes them a bit tougher to grasp on to and identify with.

>>87512634
>Lindsay
Who the fuck is Lindsay?

>>87502800
But Adachi is a cop why is he there?

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>>87508140

>>87512233
I don't know, sympathetic traits can sometimes add to how creepy a villain is.
Not /co/, but hearing one of the crime lords in Saints Row 2 sounding borderline apologetic while cutting off his friend/enforcer's ear was kinda creepy, at least for me

>>87512118

Imagine if, at the end of Watchmen, the big vagina squid shows up, and Nixon just decides to nuke Russia anyway. That's how fucking retarded Loghain is.

>>87512092
>the villains usually have better motives than the protagonist and in korra's case it just makes you root for the villain and not the protag which creates a bad show

Amon: I'm going to purge the world of cultures and everyone will live happily ever after since people can't hurt other people without bending.

Unalaq: I want to be the anti-Christ, better try and kill my family or at least hurt them.

Zaheer: Once I kill all the leaders of all the various groups in the world (and their families that way no one else will take that leaders place,) no one will be oppressed anymore.

Kuvira: I suddenly care about my country!

>better motives
Nope. It was all shit and rooting for Korra is rooting for the status quo which is like rooting for Aang since the Avatar tries to restore balance.

>>87502800
The General Zod in MoS kind. "I'm a true hero doing this for my fallen planet!"

I also like big grandiose villains like Darkseid, but those are hard to pull off.

>>87513256
>"I'm a true hero doing this for my fallen planet!"

he could have just asked Kal for the codex thing and taken it to terraform any other planet. If he cared about saving his people he could have easily done it without picking a fight.

>>87513204
I find it best when they have traits and motivations that the audience can understand, if not agree with. The most potent evil is the one you see every day. It's why Professor Umbridge gets under your skin better than Lord Voldemort. Why Lex Luthor will always be better than Brainiac.

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>>87502800

>>87513275
"Needs to be built upon a foundation." Earth was the only planet suitable, it seems.

Not sure if this was just a plot contrivance though because their ship was capable of space travel and there may have been other planets similar to Krypton or Earth. Maybe the ship was running out of energy or something, I dunno.

>>87513301
>didn't read Aristotle

Doing good for the wrong reason is still praiseworthy, but less so. Doing evil for any reason is inexcusable.

>>87513301
Rise should have just stuck to her looks. She opened her mouth and showed her stupid.

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>>87502800
That's one ancient picture there

Good job

>>87513301
They're explicitly not doing it for that reason by that point in the game though. Yeah at first it's a fun mystery, but they legitimately care about the people dying. Game was shit with garbage psuedo philosophy and overplayed tarot symbolism

>>87512193
Darksied done well is always a treat. Understanding the anti-life equation press him on a level of consciousness above that of the heirs. And he's trying to bridge that gap and communicate his deep cosmic wisdom, as he feels is his moral obligation, but unfortunately that wisdom is the death of hope and the way to communicate it is by burning down your planet and enslaving everyone on ot.

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>>87510913
Joker, such a good villain. Right Jun?

>>87513290
Sometimes unearthly and hard to explain works just fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZowK0NAvig

>>87513377
So you are saying that there are not any capes who are in it just for the trills, or glory? As anon >>87513330 said, it is still praiseworthy, but less so. Nothing wrong with seeking glory, hell many men have ran off to go fight in wars or become cops for that very reason, and are doing fine.

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>>87513301
The IT shit-talks Adachi during their fight, but in P4G they all admit in their 3rd-tier Persona events that any one of them could have turned out as nasty as he was. So they strive to be better as a result.

>>87513316
Zod is an ayylmao he sees humans like insects thus doesnt give a shit if they die.
>Oh my the dominant species of this world died out
>Lol who cares

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The "elder god" tier villains are so fucking trite. It always boils down to "big picture vs. small picture" shit. It is not clever or intelligent.

Pic related: Villain going "A" and the hero letting it go "B", because the train going "B" has a varying degree of going off the tracks before it reaches people.

>>87502800
My favorite is the "over the top cartoony villain who wants to take over the world but fails every time but has some moments of awesomness"

>>87512233
nut fampai, lovecraft was never once even mildly scary

>>87513316
>>87513938

Assuming he doesn't give a shit about life on earth he is still 100% a failure in terms of reviving his own people, which would not be the case if he simply chose another planet.

>>87513940
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_RZJUAQY4

>nicholas is the hero we need

Joker written by good writer (Morrison, Moore, Miller, Dini) is a good villain

Joker written by bad writers (like Snyder) is a bad villain.

There is a reason comics are so shit for the most part - you nerds follow characters not writers.

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>>87502800
>Ranking villains by motives.
What an inane thing to do. That's like saying pic related is true.

>>87514052
>Dini Joker
>good

>>87514112

Go watch some B:TAS, nigger.

>>87513769
Nyarlathotep not appearing in any more Persona games is a crime. But I guess the Crawling Chaos conflicts with all the P4 wankery.

>>87514195
I did, he's boring. Two-Face and even Killer Croc were far more memorable than Dini's Joker who's only remembered because of Hamill's voice.

>>87512280
Overrated doesn't mean bad

>>87513938
Oh yeah, I forgot. I guess it would have just been more convenient. It's kind of like humans who don't care about animals if it means saving humans.

>>87514007
>he is still 100% a failure in terms of reviving his own people
Yeah because he's the bad guy. He wasn't supposed to succeed.
>which would not be the case if he simply chose another planet.
From his perspective, there was no need to and it would have just wasted more time.

>>87510596
The feels..

>>87508243
High tier is the best. "No villain" is very easy to screw up. Having a villain who is arguably a protagonist is always the best way to show the connection and parallels

>>87508243
This is too good for this thread.

>>87511547
Arenea deserved to win more than the "heroes" we got stuck with.

>>87511985
>Sheev
>Not having motives purer than the heroes
He just wanted to make the galaxy strong enough to survive

>>87508243
>killing millions
>because "i think humanity is retarded enough to destroy the planet with nuclear weapons. Damn, i'm so smart"
>not a villain

>>87514251
He is there, but just biding his time. He might be active in P5, I don't know who the final boss of it is.

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>>87513301
- You guys are looking for justice just for the lols. See?

- damn it! he is right!

Japan was a mistake.

>>87514392
>Yeah because he's the bad guy

You got your cause and effect backward. If he chose another planet he would no longer be the bad guy.

>From his perspective, there was no need to

His perspective was objectively wrong then. Avoiding a loss against Superman constitutes a legitimate need no matter how you look at it.

>>87514656
I replied to this shitpost 35 minutes ago.

>>87512169
But he is loveble jackass

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>>87508243

>elder god tier
>there is no villain

good tier list but wrong image

The quality of villains depends on what kind of story they are in. A villain who is evil for the sake of evil might work in one setting but suck in another. The same goes for sympathetic villain.

The worst kind of villains are the ones who fans insist are morally grey or 'did nothing wrong' despite blatant evidence they were full of shit(LoK villains, Zeon,Griffith and others).

>>87513838
Eh, he's usually portrayed as tall and reasonably good looking. He's also completely amoral, self serving and obsessed with fighting Superman.

Lex can be a complex and interesting character when written well, but his end goal isn't heroic and he only ever approaches anti-hero when saving the planet because he himself doesn't want to die with it.

>>87514052
So sue me if I get invested in a character and want to follow their story because I think it's interesting...

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>>87502800

>>87518195
No Wily being the one that made the Zero Virus that mutated into the Maverick Virus cancer that lead to the creation of the Mother Elf which was in turn transformed into the Dark Elf and cause the cataclysmic Elf Wars destroying all life except Area Zero on earth then the asshole who did it doesnt die but becomes Model W further fucking up the world centurie after he hit the dirt.

>>87508665
Protag of his own story.

I enjoy meh and high tier the most, i find the "there is no villain" tier is usually handled very poorly and preachy

>>87511563
Ganon had great motivation in one game. What about the dozens of other games he's been in?

>>87515060
the villain of the wire is made up racism/classism by liberals you filthy commie

>>87502800
6>5>4=1>>>>>>shit>>>>2>3

>le villains must have the moral high ground to be good meme
Fuck you and your faggot chart. A villain can be fucking great and still have a relatively simple motivation, believing a villain is shit if he isn't a dindu is retarded
It's all about the execution. You can have a villain who just wants power for the sake of power be fucking great and a villain who has noble goals but evil methods fucking suck, or vice versa.

>>87502800
Bait.

>>87502800
>breen
>literally the man who sold the world

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>>87507557
>mfw there are 150 posts after what should have been /thread

Killer BOB > all
One of best villains in American television and his existence wasn't even the author's original intent.

>>87514251
I was so fucking pissed that he wasn't the villain in Ultimax. They practically had his name in lights with everything he did.

>>87502800
this chart is stupid.

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>>87511376
>>87512607

>>87502800
i like adachi too but he will always be a /r9k/ power fantasy and nothing more

>>87502800
As of Skyward Sword, Ganondorf is only doing what he's doing out of nature. So he should be mid tier by your own logic.