Weekend /co/ creation thread

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Last thread:

-Halloween stuff
-More Golden Girl script ideas
-Something about a new setting made back in July about tails and magic
-Other stuff

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Here are some seasons... I did some work on them but never had time to flesh them out. I am so tempted to integrate them into the magical girl world view of my comic but knowing my progress it might not happen for another 50 years...

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And here is marley and her robot.

>>87484681
Neat.

Based on everything in that pic, if I had to guess, I'd say they just fought something huge in the streets, patched themselves up real quick, then went into that restaurant without even going to another street.

You know how supers often flee the scene of their heroic actions? They didn't bother to do that and now the paparazzi is having their fun.

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Our Chicago native may not care much about sports usually, but she can recognize a momentous occasion.

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>>87484908
Thanks, that's a really good read, although I just trying to find a reason for spring to put her leg up, so I started drawing bruises and bandages as if they just been in a fight.

>>87484837
Super cute!

Aight, check this idea,
A zombie setting where the there are small cities fighting to conquer lands or being allies with each other to survive. GoT style alliances I mean. Zombies should be op to keep the cities small tho

>>87485683
Cubs didn't really win, its just a massive hoax everyone is playing up.

>>87484837
One day I think Marley will build her own Ultron.

>>87485683
I imagine that party will go on for a while, at least until THAT happens.

>>87485912
Yes, more Summer Special updates. This is good.

>>87486521
GoT meaning what?

Because if that means Game of Thrones the only reason why I got to that conclusion is because of the South Park episodes from 2 or 3 years ago.

>>87484681
How giant is Fall? That's giving me major The Tick flashbacks.

>>87484681
What happened to Spring's shoe?

>>87488689
Why do you think she's in such a bad mood? She loved that boot.

Spook month is over.

Does anyone have any ideas for some thread themes? Maybe that'll get things more active then the are right now.

>>87489601
Britainment story where a Guy Fawkes effigy steps down from the pyre and, eternally burning, is making his way to Parliament.

>>87489229
>bad mood

I think she's grinning at the camera, just in something of a weird angle.

>>87484681
>winter's outfit
>reading gay porn

Absolutely haram?

>>87488161
GoT meaning it would have alot of rape and bare tits in it

>>87488188
Well, you know what they say: the bigger they are, the harder they...Fall.

>>87490236

I thought you were gonna go with the intrigues, betrayal and black/white ambiguity but then again we didn't have that since the fourth season.

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>>87489229
She broke a heel.

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>>87491314
>2015OCT05
>2015

>>87491388
Now think about ALL the stuff that's gone down in these threads since last year.

>>87484681
>>87491314
Did the roster get changed up here?

If I remembered, the one with the branches in her hair was Autumn and the one with horns was Summer.

>>87491750
Not much really was decided upon at all, including their names and backgrounds.

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>>87491750
I made a switchroo. Its been a while since I drawn them.

>>87492106
Have you considered any options for the previous generation or the appearance of the seasonal spirits themselves?

>>87492106
>Winter is the warn and saucy one.
>Spring is cold and standoff-ish.

Pottery?

looks neat
is this a single comic that you're all working on together, or are you guys each doing your own stuff and sharing your progress

>>87493325
It's a shared universe with characters in mostly distinct but partially overlapping plotlines.

>>87485683
I love this, and I love you, anon. Motion a best.
Got a blog/page/newsletter I can follow.

>>87485683
>those hips

Comic-science hormones must be some serious shit.

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>>87492490
Probably some fucked up Pagan shit.

Some time probably had a girl who never knew the source of her powers, but thought it was Wicca being real.

>>87493669
It's a lot easier to win the genetic lottery when you're fictional.

>>87494427
Well there really is a lot of bullshit super tech in the /coc/verse that's in common use. Or semi-common use anyway.

>>87494856
If there's magic boob serum there's no reason there can't be magic ass serum.

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>>87495205
The magic boob serum isn't "magic" unless we define magic by "it just works".

And that's not what I meant.
I mean there's a bunch of tech in the /coc/ setting that's available to the general public that does not exist in reality.

It's pretty much that "why doesn't Reed Richard's fix the world?" argument, only in the /coc/verse supers are actually allowed to change the status quo so it's not locked to the real world's boring bullshit social/political climate.

>>87493489
tell me more

>>87495205
>>87496121
I think most of the ridiculous superscience is still prohibitively expensive in the /co/verse. That artificial womb probably costs an arm and a leg.

>>87496491
Like every good piece of new science, we never get to have it in our hands until it's been poked in a lab for at least 10 years.

>>87496619
>tfw you will never poke an artificial womb

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>>87496479
Most of what goes on in the thread is world building, development on character concepts and appearances, and some story outlining. An individual character's plotline isn't likely to intersect with too many others, but is almost guaranteed to overlap with at least one other.

What usually happens is some scattered characters are developed and sort of "open" without a clear plan for them, then as one character's story gains momentum there will be opportunities to use those characters and it'll end up pulling them together into a viable cast.

For instance, >>87485683 is Motion, a Chicago-based superhero whose storyline involves fighting against two sides of a gangwar. Another character, Six Foot Thunder, was designed as an urban vigilante who is seeking revenge on a mob boss that killed his daughter. In order to help flesh out both of their stories, the mob boss was settled in as one side of the gang war, which automatically placed 6FT in Chicago alongside Motion instead of being in a previously nondescript urban city and characterized part of their casts, easily contextualizing 6FT's story as part of this gangwar.

Some characters are a lot less interconnected and their storylines are developed more independently, but it seems like the easiest and most common way to employ the otherwise unwieldy cast is by frequently integrating them into stories where they work well.

>>87497004
i want to contribute but suck at drawing

>>87497239
Start by reading up on some stuff in the wiki, if you like. Maybe you'll find something that appeals to you.

>>87497004
Yeah, the Motion plot line drew in a bunch of other characters and tied them all together.

I think the Bees Knees plot line is trying to do the same, but would actually need a lot more interest before it could pull that off.

The Aqua Coalition (of Super Friends) plot line is making a point to drawing in wayward characters and tie them all in. It's incorporated the Bloom, Barron Waste, Bombastic, and probably is going to incorporate Shark Lass at some point.

The Stretcherous plot line is like a serious of one shots in other characters' plots that forms its own plot from them.

The /co/ntainment plot line intersects with a bunch of others and actually works more like a cluster of plot lines depending on which members of /co/ntainment the story is focused on.

Well, those are the ones that get talked about more often these days, but there's a bunch of others.

>>87498980
So how bad is the iron allergy for selkies?

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might as well post some newly coloured cute.

>>87489883
I don't think we even have a character like that in the setting.

>>87499902
Don't zombie bump.

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>>87492490
Are we going for magical girl spirits, or Old World spirits?

>>87500709
One of the first ideas was that despite all the outward appearance of a rather simple and flowery magical girl aesthetic the background lore is rather dark. Not dark in a "grimdark and edgy," way but rather dark in a shadowy and old way, where the light makes shapes unclear.

Basically the powers they harness comes from a far older time than what what most magical girl power sources imply in their setting, where they're always rather modern looking in the context of the show.

>>87497846
are bees knees and lovely ladybug friends?

>>87501238
They've never met in a thought out story, but they probably would be if they did meet.

There's just never been anything outside of some doodles of the two of them meeting. No context for the the meeting or how it happens.

>>87501348
how much progress do you guys have
do you have issues or are you just world building

>>87501796
The Lovely Ladybug has 4 issues and 3 specials out.

The Motion Comic has about 12 or 13 pages as a prototype for when >>87485683 finally feels she's good enough to draw a whole comic.

Amazing /co/ventures has I think 30+ pages to it right now, but has been on hiatus while Psu works on his webcomic.

/co/ntainment has a few comics, but they're all unfinished.

You can actually find most of the comics listed here
http://the-conservatory.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Comics

There's actually a lot of comics, just not a lot of finished comics.

I should probably update that list with some of the other stuff, like a link to the BreastQuest comic pages done so far on the /co/ booru.

>>87502059
some of these are really good
are you working on one of them

>>87502354
No, I just organize everything anyone around here makes.

There's a bunch of WIP comics I have saved that aren't listed on there.

You should see Cosmic Crusaders, the anon making that is amazing with all the detail put into just the WIPs.

Regarding that recent GG script. We need to name the super team and come up with some members for it to work.

>>87504848
Depends if the "team" has both male and female members.

Mmm, yes, time travel.

Whatever happened to those three characters in that Canadian city setting?

I rather liked that story idea.

>>87505944
The joke of this particular strip if not the entire concept in general is to parody the most common superpower trope so it'd stand to reason the team is exclusively female.

>>87506431
And the main problem is we can't get an ending line that really works with the joke.

Right, here's a bump before bed.

Hopefully DST doesn't throw us off so much that the thread fails to even make it through Sunday.

>>87506460
The punchline is there. It just needs more setup.

Pretty slow tonight. Well if anyone happens to have a sketch request or something, I'll try getting something done later today.

>>87511700
/co/lette getting comfy with a nice sweater and a cup of cocoa

>>87504848
The last time we discussed the name, a couple folks suggested the name have Sorority in it. How about the Sorority of Sentinels? I kinda like the idea of a superteam being named the SOS.

>>87504848
Crime Bustiers.

>>87490765
I meant fights for the power and land and what you said by Game of thrones style alliances. The local forces fighting and joining each other to get the biggest portion from the divided country.
The biggest force would clean main roads between its states to increase trading between towns therefore increase its power

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>>87499640
The sea dwelling relatives of the fae don't mind iron much. Steel is generally dilute enough to not cause them discomfort. Emily and most of her friends would not fare nearly so well in that boss room.

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>>87511700
How about Bombastic?

>>87507974
Or maybe we just figure out a way where the setup doesn't make the punchline feel repetitive.

>>87514803
Would using alternatives to "develop" change the joke?

>>87514803
The objective is cheesecake, not originality.

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>>87501046
So The Green Man is their Zordon?

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>>87511700
What about /Co/llector doing something related to actual thievery instead of fetishy stuff?
Like her rappelling upside-down, Mission Impossible style down over a museum display?

>>87516046
If we change it up, it should be in the punchline. The whole "developing into quite the superhero" is the key part of the setup.

>>87484681
I wish this was set in the late 90s/early 00s just so Winter can have a site on a slashfic webring.

>>87512230

where would you start though? if we follow the GoT example we would start in a smaller city, with the family in control getting visited by a family from a bigger city.

>>87514803
>>87516046
>>87516430
>>87518468
I thought it was pretty obvious that the set up and punchline alike are largely visual in nature.

>>87518823
True, but we've been struggling a bit with the proper wording for GG's line in the last panel, getting it to flow properly.

>>87518823
>>87518468
Alright, let's take a look at this from last thread
>PANELS 1-2: establishing shots of SQ and GG arriving and meeting the other superheroines
>"Sometimes Silver Queen brings me to [team name] meetings. They're superheroines who get together to save the world, or swap crimefighting tips, or just catch up."

>PANEL 3: the other superheroines treat GG with the sort of semi-distant affection adults usually give a friend's kid they don't see very often
>"They always tell me I'm developing into quite the superhero myself."

>PANEL 4: GG silently takes note of the fact that all the superheroines have fairly ample bosoms
>"And I've noticed they're all pretty 'developed'..."

>PANEL 5: GG looks down at her own chest, raising an eyebrow at the realization that she's the biggest one in the room
And now the problem:
>"...But I think I might already be the most 'developed' one here!"
>"...But if that's all it takes, I'm already the best superhero here!"
>"...But if that's all it takes, then I've already 'developed' into the best superhero here!"
>"...But if I 'develop' much more, I'll need superpowers just to stand up!"
>"...But if I 'develop' any more, I'll be the best superhero ever!"
>"I think maybe I'm developed enough"
>"But if 'development' is all it takes, then I already have them all beat!"

The joke comes from the PPG/Super Friends thing Cartoon Network did back in the 90s.
"You girls are developing into quite the super heroes"
>"One day we'll be as developed as you!"
>Lex Luther and his Legion of Doom laughs

So maybe the joke should be refitted to something along the lines of her realizing she's already more developed than any of them.
So, if we cut out
>"And I've noticed they're all pretty 'developed'..."
then the last line can be
>"I think I'm the most developed on here."

>>87519598
I think it's stretching it too far.
Panel 1 should be the team base or set up or something naming the group.
Then you have panels introducing the individual members
Then the set up and punchline are the last two, maybe with the last panel showcasing that Audrey only comes up to chest height for emphasis

You don't need panel 4 as you've described it at all. That explains the joke too much.

>>87519685
>maybe with the last panel showcasing that Audrey only comes up to chest height for emphasis
I actually had that in mind when I first visualized panel 4, kind of side-eyeing one of the members' chests.

But yeah, panel 1 would be an establishing shot of SQ and GG arriving at the base, with two and three introducing the other members. I wanted to keep the number of panels relatively short because of the number of characters involved. Fewer panels means larger panels with more room for all those figures.

>>87519685
I'm just re-posting it since we're talking about it.

And I did say at the end of my post that the line in the describe panel 4 should be cut.

Do we agree that this works for the end of it though?
>Second to last panel: the other superheroines treat GG with the sort of semi-distant affection adults usually give a friend's kid they don't see very often
>"They always tell me I'm developing into quite the superhero myself."

>Last panel: GG looks down at her own chest, raising an eyebrow at the realization that she's the biggest one in the room
>"But I think I'm the most developed one here."

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While on the subject of Golden Girl, I might as well re-post this crappy MS paint layout I did of this script http://pastebin.com/qCGDMKFU

I do make the effort to keep the threads up for at least the duration of the weekend.

>>87519877
I dunno. I think it still needs Audrey actively observing the others' chests.

>>87522735
I'm saying she does that without any narration boxes or thought bubbles.

>>87523117
So she does it during the semi-distant affection panel?

>>87523915
For the narrative flow of it, I'd say she should look around the room and actually take notice of the most common superpower between being told she's developing and looking down and thinking she's the most developed one there.

>>87524140
So we keep panel 4, but it's silent. Yeah, that could work.

>>87524199
Yeah.

So what about panels 1 and 2 then?

>>87525135
Like I said, panel 1 is the establishing shot of SQ and GG arriving at the base, with panel two being the members greeting them.

>everyone forgets Koala Lass.

>>87525247
Yes, but specifics anon, specifics.

What does the base look like? Is it like a tower base that's iconically associated with supers?
Is it just a building with a reserved top floor for the meeting and they're all in civilian attire?
Is it at wherever SQ lives and they're all in on each others' identities?

Who is at this meet and greet? Who are these other supers and who are their side-kicks?

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My sister's new OC. She's too young to be posting here but since I have zero artistic skills I figured maybe you guys could give some criticism.

>>87526050
It's not bad - the anatomy is a bit off and the pose is dull, but time and practice will fix those and it's a good start. Linework is pretty sketchy though, that's a big one to work on.

>>87526031
I figure the base would something vaguely Hall of Justice-ish.

>Who is at this meet and greet? Who are these other supers and who are their side-kicks?
Let's not give them sidekicks. This is gonna be crowded enough as it is. And we can just make them generic hero types: A space hero, a magic hero, some kind of jungle princess, etc. Unless we start making Silver Queen comics, we don't really need to make the team that fleshed-out.

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>>87526359
Oh, so they're just something like this then?

Only 1950s.

>>87526424
Pretty much, yeah.

I had the the thought that they'd all have the same eyes-always-closed look as SQ. Kind of a "house style" thing.

>>87526473
>I had the the thought that they'd all have the same eyes-always-closed look as SQ.
Given that SQ's closed eyes are a visual cue for code blindness this is a necessity.

>>87526747
So does that mean even the background characters at Audrey's school have closed eyes, or is this only something the adults have?

>>87526914
When it's funny. Probably. I dunno.

>>87527008
I don't think closed eyes would apply to the villains since their lifestyles already go against the code, but they still have partial code blindness for the sake of the joke/story.

>>87527082
Villains themselves aren't against the Code. Billy is immune not because he's a villain, but because he's not treated as if he were some irredeemable monster, which IS against the Code of the time.

>>87528984
But what I'm getting at is all the other villains we have so far don't have closed eyes either.

So now the question is when does the closed eyes thing apply to a character?

>>87529023
Maybe only superheroes keep them closed, as a sign of upholding a law they don't even realize exists? Or...something.

So no Koala lass?

>>87518765
I plan to start from a small city with one character who is gonna help one of the indepented forces in the country. Since im going start from a time where things already settled i plan to abuse flashbacks at beginning

>>87530329
That's just clever and crazy enough to work.
Superheroes are literally moral guardians, so they get it the hardest from the rules of moral guardians

>>87530350
Post the pics then.

'straya is practically untouched in the shared universe setting.

Well, here's a bump before bed.

>>87526359
So what's the revised script looking like now?

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>>87532540
Personally I think this format would be best, give or take some panels for how big the team is

>>87533046
I'm not sure. Feels like that might be stretching it out a bit more than it needs to be.

>>87483635

>>87534736
I don't think so, that format gives us a chance to actually introduce the other members of the team.

>>87536828
Have any team members actually been figured out?

>>87537575
Are you going to actually need most of these characters for anything else or just as part of this joke? If not, you can make offbrand pastiches of /co/verse characters to populate most of the ranks.

>>87537575
Nope, which is something I've been trying to get us to discuss every time this script gets brought up.

Since it's the 1950ish setting, I think there'd be an atomic hero.

Black Cat was also suggested since she's public domain and /co/ as a thing for her.

But how many do we need to be in this group?

>>87485683
BITCH I'M FROM CLEVELAND

>>87537666
Hi Satan.

Did hell freeze over when it happened?

>>87537699
It's Cleveland it could be hailing comets during a heatwave in winter and nobody would notice anything odd.

>>87538575
Sounds like the work of a wizard.

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>>87486701
>>87484837

>>87537575
>>87537600
It'd be nice to have them just in case we need them later on. So I think maybe we should put at least half an ass's worth of effort in.

>>87537634
There are a few archetypes that we could use. I think the question is mostly what we consider SQ to be. Is she the team Batman, since she's a rich socialite with a sidekick? Is she the team Wonder Woman, because she has magic bracelets? Is she the team Superman, because she's the all american face?

She's pretty much this universe's Trinity?

>>87541259
You know, how about we just not make any comparisons like that? Every time we try to "fill a role" like that with a character based on some pre-existing dynamic, it always comes out wrong.

Let's just pick some characters we like for that part and have them just be them without trying to make them expys of some other character.

We have Silver Queen who is pretty much a tank with her powers.

Then we could have an atomic woman, who does a lot of government sponsored promotional stuff for the "age of the atom".

Maybe an alien woman, but I'm not sure the age of the "sexy space babe" was there yet during the "1950s" era.

A car based heroine might also work, one who's main "superpower" is having cutting edge road technology with a new fangled "tracking system" since tracking devices were still fairly experimental back then.

>>87530569

I do think smaller separate stories in the same world work better, you don't have to rely too much on clichés like plotarmor for the MC and can present the world from different perspectives. Depending on where you start, it can go big way too fast and you drift away from what makes such post-apocalyptic worlds interesting in the first place, like the hunger games drifting away from the concept they copied from battle royale, it was at that moment when it went to shit. same with GoT which is gonna turn into the good guys fighting ice zombies at the end, which is far away from the middle ages politics that made the series interesting to begin with.

>>87536828
>>87541259
Yeah, but even though we're introducing the team here, the team itself isn't meant to be the focus of the strip, but rather the irony of them treating Golden Girl as the kid in the room when she's bustier than all of them. Your format kind of makes it into:

>"Behold the Sorority of Sentinels! The Sensational Silver Queen! The Amazing Atomic Lass! The Undeniable Whatsit Woman!"
>"Oh, and also I'm bigger than all of them."

>>87484837
>>87540974
Who even is this little dude?

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>>87544352
A robot Marley built in The Lovely Ladybug #4 for an all robot orchestra.

>>87532540
How's this look?

>PANEL 1: Establishing shot of the headquarters of the Sorority of Sentinels, a Hall of Justice-esque building. Silver Queen and Golden Girl are disembarking from their motorcycle and heading inside.
>GG (NARR.): Sometimes, Silver Queen brings me along when she attends a meeting of the Sorority of Sentinels.

>PANEL 2: Inside, SQ and GG are greeted by the other team members, an assortment of hero-girl archetypes.
>GG (NARR.): They're a team of superheroines who get together to save the world, swap crimefighting tips, or just catch up with each other.

>PANEL 3: As SQ chats with some of her teammates, others greet GG with the sort of semi-distant affection adults usually give a friend's kid they don't see very often.
>GG (NARR.): They always tell me I'm developing into quite the superhero myself.

>PANEL 4: The SOS members continue chatting with each other. GG, standing roughly about chest-high compared to the superheroines, silently observes that they all have fairly ample bosoms.

>PANEL 5: GG looks down at her own chest, raising an eyebrow at the realization that she's the biggest one in the room.
>GG (NARR.): But frankly, I think I'm the most developed one here!

>>87545896
I think that's the keeper.

Right, I said I was going to do this last thread.

Here's a pastebin with whatever GG scripts/more developed ideas I know of that haven't been drawn.

http://pastebin.com/JaMSQ8FJ

>>87546600
Expertly assembled, anon.

>>87544180
I think that's kind of the point. You don't want to stretch the gag across seven panels.

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From last week about the Tailed People.
>Long ago in a distant land.
>The twelve Animal Gods reigned over the lands in peace.
>The Animals were powerful and controlled elements themselves.
>It was like this for years until the monkey king sought to gain more power, using dark magic to push forward, to reign with an iron fist.
>It was almost too late until the other Animals intervened with the Simian Monarch.
>The Ancestors sealed away the King, encasing him in stone.
>As a pact to never let such a catastrophe happen again,the Animals spread their power, breathing new life into the planet.
>This created the tailed people, mostly human, but with powers.
>The Evil Monkey king is sealed, but the dark power he sought to control still remains.

Long Story Short:
>Chinese Zodiac Animals were gods.
>Monkey was an evil dick.
>Other animals Sealed him away.
>Made Humans with God Animal Powers to prevent more Dockery
>Shadowy Evil still exists.

>>87548044
You're right. That's why it's only five panels.
>>87545896

>>87541539
>A car based heroine might also work
How would she look? Like a racecar driver?

>>87551434
Helmet, goggles, jumpsuit, scarf, gloves, boots, that whole look has been around for decades and was in use during the time period.

>>87544109
Thats a fair point, you are right.
So, what if i dont get the main character into that war for power, but make him a traveling merchant who tries to profit from everything.
Would that drive the story far from the apocalypse survival

>>87551705
How does a traveling merchant make it from one city to the next in an uber zombie infected world?

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Sat wanted me to post this here.

>>87548512
Saiyans?

>>87553924
>Sat
Who?

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>>87554780
Satillite9.

Draws a webcomic, streams with Psu.

>>87553116
Mostly with a small truck or A normal sized truck and one or two mercenaries. And by using cleanest roads that are away from the population, there for less zombie populated.
Mostly those "cities" will be surviving towns instead of old cities that have decent population.

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Hey is it ok to post our own comic/cartoon concepts for review on here? I've had an idea for a series for a while stewing in my head but there's not really a designated place to discuss that sort of thing.

>>87556245
I think you're looking for the Donut Steel OC Thread.

>>87553924
Marley looking stacked. Cute stuff, Sat.

>>87556095
You see, the way you presented the idea I thought this was some kind of medieval zombie setting you were proposing.

>>87554245
The Monkey King had no way to create his race like the others did.
But there are still ways the monkey king can work his magic.
His hand brings power to those who wish it, but at a cost.

>>87558803
Sounds like what we have going on with the 12 demon kings and the imprisoned blue king.

>>87559407
The back story of the monkey king is the setup as His Hand grants the wishes. But it's always a horrible twist or turns people into monsters.
The other Idea for it was just his gauntlet was full of corrupting dark magic.
The Protagonists themselves need more work though.

>>87554881
>streams with Psu
Dropped.

>>87557916
Yea, my bad. The idea was medieval era zombies at first then ı thought it would look like game of thrones ripoff so ı went with moderi era zombie setting with medieval vibe

>>87553924
I really like the taller one's design.

>>87563030
I'm not entirely sure who the taller one is.

>>87564107
I think it might be an original character? I've seen sat post pictures of them before, but I've never seen anything about them here.

>>87564200
Might be a Kamen Rider character or OC.

>>87564200
Almost feels like a Digimon character

>>87563030
Not the smaller one?

>>87567760
Well, the taller one I'd never seen before.

>>87567760
Stop posting on 4chan, Marley.

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>>87567859

Bumping for reasons beyond me.

>this friday is the UK's version of veterans day
>complete with entire weekend of remembrance

Can we get a feels-y Marion story going then?

You know the one. Character is a total hardass, then we follow a second character being told about that first character's past where they weren't so hardass?

>>87572672
When she was a fresh faced, right off the boat, without knowing a lick of English?

>>87572706
Depends when it's set, really.

Before being turned she ran an Opium den, then joined the British empire when Hong Kong itself did.