bendis a shit

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can't find any other pictures of this. dark beast puts 616 beast behind a wall like fortunato. this was x-men unlimited, it was continued in x-factor 225

>>87475008
( Bendis is awesome, he's just not appreciated in his own time. )
- Cover artwork is only ever symbolic, and the whole Uncanny series was focused on Cyclops and his sad fall from grace, every cover was about him.
- Correction: Bendis added TWO new Beasts... (and it's not the '90s anymore, the AOA thing is played out)
- A *HUMAN* S.H.I.E.L.D. agent speaking from a place of ignorance about mutantkind...

Why was he a target? He's not, he's as much a victim of this life as anyone else. They're all screwed in one way or another. That's just being a mutant.

>>87475254
bendis isn't awesome if he casually dismisses dystopian foils (in this case a villain) that add depth to mutants

>added TWO new beasts
he added the young version. what other beast are you talking about?

>a human agent
yeah, and bendis wrote it in such a way that it was directed at beast and he just took it.

>why is he a target?
that's what i'm asking. you just established that the covers are focusing on cyclops, so clearly he's not treating mutants the same. cyclops isn't shit on nearly as much as beast.

>>87475008
>covers
>mattering

What the fuck?

>>87475254
>Bendis is awesome
What the fuck?
I even liked most of his UXM (fuck ANXM), but dude wat?
He's done good work, even awesome work, which is appreciated, it's just that he's done a lot more bad work that people are kinda sick of his shit.

>>87475373
if there's a new character being introduced or an established one dying, there should be some kind of allusion to it on the cover. that's just my opinion.

like if there was an avengers comic with black widow on the front but loki dies. it'd be a mismatch

>>87475405
>that's just my opinion.
So? That has nothing to do with the OVERWHELMING majority of actual practice. Christ.

Are you a relatively new reader?
No offense, honest question.

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>>87475008
OP here

i think i should also point out that Uncanny X-Force meant a lot to me because of the very fact that AoA characters were approached again, that the context of Remender's achievement there has a lot to do with these characters' best and worst potentials.

if Bendis can't see that or take value in it, he should never have been allowed to write the x-men

>>87475429
i just described how it doesn't make sense to NOT employ artistic tools to allude to things that happen in the story. we're talking about comics, not books. you can use art to adjust perceptions or prepare people. by just putting cyclops on the front when an important character dies, it shows that the emphasis isn't on the story itself. it's just catering to people who like cyclops and don't like another character.

>actual practice

see pic

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>>87475342
The second one was Future Evil Xavier Jr.'s BrainrapedBeast.
And the X-Men routinely just take lots of shit from humans without saying anything, it happens a lot.
It seems to have been an established theme for that book's covers long before this Beast issue. Besides, it was a companion cover to a Wolverine-in-the-same-imagery cover that came out on the same month.

>>87475008

Didn't beast bring the O5 into the present? Because that was a shitty, retarded move.

>>87475571
i didn't even know that bendis was the one that created that one.

so bendis is not only a shit character assassin, but he's also a hypocrite that projects his own hypocrisies on to the characters who he's assassinating.

wow.

>routinely take shit from humans
yes i know that, but it was directed specifically at beast because of the conversation lead-up. not cyclops, who was on the cover of the issue.

>>87475513
>see pic
I'm not saying it's good or endorsing it, but you getting pissy about it despite the fact that they covers rarely operate like you would like them too is childish and a waste of time.

>tradition
Because comics have never had covers that spoil the issue or telegraph the story? Is that it?

You don't know what you're talking about.
Hell, the fact that you seem to believe that Bendis even glanced at UXF says as much.

>>87475587
1) he was dying and needed a younger version of himself to help him survive
2) he called for help from the avengers and FF and they didn't answer
3) it was iceman's idea (not a defense, i know)
4) bendis was the writer at that time
5) magneto said to send them back and cyclops said that it didn't matter
6) time travel happens all the time in the marvel universe. obviously that's a tu quoque fallacy but somehow everyone is hating beast for something that happens a lot. it's just unbalanced

>>87475625
>you don't know what you're talking about
>you're right about bendis though

mkay then.

>>87475587
It was mean as a monumentally cruel guilt trip, that it surely was.
And the next option on the list was murder Cyclops, and that goes against everything Hank McCoy believes in.

... however...
It should be mentioned that now there's this causality loop that has trapped the O5 in the present and obviously, logically, only can be rectified by "nullifying" the child who will eventually become the reason for this timetravel kidnapping...
(how unforeseeable)

>>87475126
*x-men unlimited #10*

>>87475647
>it's just unbalanced
You don't keep multiple versions of yourself from the same timeline operating at the same time. That's a no-no.

Beast and Dark Beast, that's fine. AoA is a different universe. Cable and Nate, no problems there either.

You don't see Cable and his older self cohabiting conterminously. That's not done.

I'm hard pressed to find many examples of this scenario.

Adult Layla talked to young Layla, but then apparently fucked off.

>>87475760
>you don't keep multiple versions of yourself
>beast and dark beast, that's fine

i agree with that. i'm pissed off that bendis made it so there were 4 beasts by assassinating the character of the first and offing the 2nd. it's garbage

when you think about it, DB was also a powerful plot device for Nate Grey and maybe even Cable as well, and now that's gone.

>>87475817
>DB was also a powerful plot device
This is all he ever was, it's no loss in a world of zombie mutants.

>>87475647
1)- he didn't know BabyHank would catch the mistake in his science that would allow for the stabilization of his mutation - thus saving his own life, that was an unexpected happy coincidence.
2)- They rarely do, and when they do they're often no help ... sometimes even becoming part of the problem.
3)- Never steal ideas from aa gay man with a see-through head.
4)- That's just unfair. There are worse writers than Bendis. Not EVERYTHING he writes is bad.
5)- Who runs this show? Magneto? Hell no! I'll tell you who: Emma Frost. Blame her.
6)- It don't happen all the time anymore, Wolverine and Sue Storm broke it that time they unmade Ultron's big win. Now there was some real paradox creation!

>>87475866
actually it was a loss, and he/AoA characters were what made Uncanny X-Force so good.

if you deny the importance of Dark Beast you deny the value of UXF

>>87475899
Before the cock crows, this thread shall deny UXF three times...

>>87475969
NEVERMORE!! NEVERMORE!!

>>87475899
>he/AoA characters were what made Uncanny X-Force so good.
Hardly.
The series being good made it good. Characters are interchangeable, pliable things.

>if you deny the importance of Dark Beast you deny the value of UXF
How so?
Uncanny X-Force stands on its own merit, it doesn't need the validation of another series. For 35/7 issues UXF gives itself, or rather, you and other fans, give it the appropriate valuation that you and the other fans feel it earns.
Are you seriously a continuityfag?

>>87475999
>characters are interchangeable pliable things

this is bait

>>87476048
Not at all, but I should've been more clear.
I don't mean that you should trash a character's personality and mannerisms to fit your story, but that the absence or presence of a given character won't affect the quality of a good story.

For instance, UXF could've been done just as well with say, Sugar Man, instead of Dark Beast.

>>87475647

It's not unbalanced. The pre bendis Hank would bitchslap himself for even thinking of playing with time like that and found another way. Time travel is normally does not work the lazy ass way it was made to work here, even in marvel, considering how Age of Ultron happened earlier.

>>87476095
>the absence or presence of a given character won't affect the quality of a good story

right. let's have romeo and juliet without romeo. let's just right a play about juliet who becomes schizophrenic in love with herself.

oh wait, that wouldn't be romeo and juliet though.

>could've been done just as well with sugar man

sugar man isn't the dystopian foil of an original x-man. not the same when if isn't beast and archangel talking about life evolving with the life seed.

AoA nightcrawler and AoA Iceman wouldn't have been sad if it was AoA hulk and AoA havok becuase they weren't friends.

you're just saying things. you don't arbitrarily replace characters with others. that's stupid.

>>87476148
you realize that you just said pre-bendis hank wouldn't have done that?

>>87476095
>>87475999

>othello calls for dark skinned lead role
>let's cast othello as a white man

it's like you're disconnected from the reality that people do in fact know female thor is a gimmick

>>87476267
Are you fucking dense?
I'm not saying that you just drag and drop characters, I'm saying that the story can be good regardless of who is the cast if the story is well made.

> you don't arbitrarily replace characters with others. that's stupid.
Except writers arbitrarily pick characters to use in the first place. It wouldn't be the exact same, but it could be of equal quality.

>>87476308
A gimmick can be good. It's just that they often aren't.

Amusingly, Othello has been adapted with non-blacks as Othello.

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>>87476406
you can't tell me that sugar man would be a poignant replacement for DB

also, sugar man wasn't loyal to Apocalypse either.

these are two dystopian foils of original x-men. this is good writing. what you're suggesting is not good writing. it's haphazard and insulting to the audience.

>>87476406
>othello has been adapted with nonblacks

and i would not go see them

>>87475571
Gee, how is it that a dynamite character like Raze never caught on?

>>87475008
>dark beast isn't even on the fucking cover
Everyone who knows about Bendis knows the guy likes to misdirects not only on his covers but on his solicitations as well. 8 times out of ten. Nothing shown on the cover or explained in the solicitation will happen in the actual comic and even sometimes, the story of the solicitation will be better tan the thing we actually got.

>>87476148
>Marvel time-travel doesn't work like that.

Not true.
Marvel has established several different ways to effect time-travel, the one Beast fucked things up with is the Dr.Doom/Reed Richards "Time-Cube" technology, and that was always meant to have this devastating potential.
But there are other ways to go about it, the mutant Tempus ( Eva Bell ) travels between parallel reality timelines, this is the common method first established in the classic X-Men story "Days of Future Past" in which Rachel Summers used her telepathic abilities to push Kitty Pryde's consciousness into *a* past, and later on The Phoenix force pulled Rachel herself from that alternate future reality into this timeline.
Other techniques, like Kang's time-travelling can allow moving to and fro from past and future, timeline to timeline, parallel reality to parallel reality, all without consequences or damage to the timeline.
Kang's even able to exit a timeline, travel into the future or past, and still leave behind the Kang that would carry out his historical actions in the time he just left. He's even able to use that technique to grab people from "between seconds" without removing them from history, his private armies have included characters that in his private army can die in combat without effecting the history of them dying as history has it.
Kang has even murdered his future and past selves from time to time with no ill effect on himself.
Then there's the linked destinies, the precog prophesies, the "timeline in flux" phenomenon...

Anything's possible, within reason, that's the whole point.

>>87475126
>225

actually 125, 128, 131 iirc

>>87476452
>poignant
This is idiotic.
The way the character is written and their presentation makes their inclusion in a story poignant or not.

Take any character, let's say Gambit--history with Apocalypse roguish thief type. Put him in for Fantomex. Ok? Can you keep up?
Uncanny X-Force is no longer the same story, but there is no reason to believe that it couldn't be the same calibre of story. Maybe we don't get Otherworld, maybe the story turns out even better. Perhaps Kidpocalypse is never cloned, and the original instead killed by Warren (instead of the scene with the gunshot, it's a razor feather and a shunk instead of blam).
Sure perhaps we miss out on the World, but we might get something else entirely. Or, hell, maybe X-force figures out that to cure Warren, they have to return Apocalypse to life and need the World to do that, so they steal the World from Fantomex. Who knows?

There's nothing haphazard about good writing and nuance, which Remender has proven he is capable of. Bad writing is insulting, but you'd have never known the difference between Sugarman and Dark Beast or Deadpool and Domino or any number of characters that were chosen. You've just gotten so attached in your mind to what did transpire that you can't conceive that there's another possibility out there. It's infantile and you insult yourself by being so narrow-minded.

>Sugarman wasn't loyal to Apocalypse
He was loyal enough to help out with Apocalypse's twisted experiments. He didn't need to be a foil to anything--just as DB didn't, he was just the necessary madman to help move things along. As mentioned by someone (not me) ITT "he's a powerful plot device".

>>87476480
Fucking good for you!

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>>87476891
>the way the character is written and their presentation

i like how you used the word "the" instead of "a"

so what you're saying is that if there's a good enough writer, then we can just replace jesus with iago from aladdin.

>take any character
>gives similar examples instead of completely different ones

oh cool, now we're cherrypicking? i thought the basic plan was that characters didn't matter. now you're saying they have to have similar archetypes.

so let's replace gambit with bilbo baggins. gosh you're so trendy and COOL!

>>87476285

I was saying that hank getting a little flack for his actions isn't unbalanced. Especially after admitting to Pete he's been an ass lately.

>>87476565

I forgot about Kang, my bad.

Still, its a giant mess, and I'm probably only salty because I hate the wholesale character derailment since schism and this brought fucking Jean back to boot.

>>87477131
>getting a little flack

i think it's more than that

>>87475647
>magneto said to send them back and cyclops said that it didn't matter
Not exactly. Scott didn't say that they shouldn't send the O5 back. He just said that the X-Men had to deal with SHIELD who were a bigger threat. The whole going back in time thing is stupid and still hasn't been sorted out yet for... some reason.

Why are the O5 so shit. They are nothing like the real orignal five X-Men. Angel has turned from a playboy into a spoiled and entitled brat, Bobby has turned 'gay', Beast has turned from being a likable smart guy into a dislikable twat and Cyclops just constantly whines about his situation instead of doing what Cyclops usually does, find a way to deal with it.

>>87477071
Anon, serious question
Are you retard?

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>>87477071
>so what you're saying is that if there's a good enough writer, then we can just replace jesus with iago from aladdin.
Sure. Stories are stories. The pieces used to build them don't matter, preferably they build something nice though. picrel

> i thought the basic plan was that characters didn't matter.
Gambit was the first name that came to my head, try Lorna then. Keeps the Apocalypse connection--not that it's even important. Just bring her back from space a few months earlier and bam. Say she got a taste for violence while fighting Vulcan so she joins X-force to sort that out because someone has to do the dirty work. She's also mildly batshit so that would be a good source of DRAMA. Take that Magneto issue and run wild.

>>87477364
I don't why I keep replying.

>>87477190

He brought Jean back which will probably kick off some retarded doomsday event, and he brought Jean back. He's getting off easy.

>>87477199
That's a bullshit assessment of their characters.
Either you're talking out of your ass about characterizations from decades before you were born or you're senile and can't remember them.
The notion that "playboy" and "spoiled, entitled brat" are mutually exclusive is absurd.
And what the fuck gives you that impression of him from the O5 adventures?
And "turned gay" is the same bullshit empty argument that's been disproved over and over again on /co/ for the past year. Get over your homophobia already and go identify with another closetcase.
Beast was never portrayed as a " dislikable twat", he was always this character, past-present-future, it's the bad decisions he's made that are upsetting. If you can't understand that charismatic people can still do bad things I would advise you to go buy the Brooklyn Bridge.
And READ A FUCKING COMIC before you say again that Cyclops doesn't whine about things.

You have to be the most ignorant poster on /co/ who isn't actively praising Hitler.
I have half a mind to report your post as trolling, but I sadly have to admit there really are people as stupid as you in the world.

>>87477364
>>87477386

>stories are stories
yeah, and some stories have meaning because of characters and the context their past bring with them, especially in sequels or ongoing series. you're saying they don't.

you're gaslighting just like the CHILD in the pic.

>gambit
gambit doesn't have an A.I. working for him. gambit doesn't use illusions and images of horrible things that make people look the other way or want to look the other way, which is a recurring motif in Remender's work on UXF

you're making shit up. you have no literary standards at all.

>>87477567
>get over your homophobia

um, being insulted by arbitrary retconning is not homophobia

>>87477625
scuse me. you're gaslighting like the child was pointing out the gaslighting of the man in the story

>>87477625
>gambit doesn't use illusions and images of horrible things that make people look the other way or want to look the other way
Most of those occurrences were actually Psylocke's doing. 'Mex used his misdirection mostly defensively.

>gambit doesn't have an A.I
Do you not get that I'm saying the story wouldn't be the same, but it can still easily be good nonetheless? So take Fantomex outta the mix, he's not a brick anymore, but there's no reason to assume that another brick wouldn't be just as sturdy under a capable pen.

>you're saying they don't.
Yes.
I'm not disregarding that context though, I'm saying that if they are absent, it is no longer relevant and something else can be molded to work.

>gaslighting
I'm doing no such thing. Unless the entirety of the narrative tradition is some cultish psi-op.

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As long as we're all having a laugh about Bendis's X-Men stories, I would be REMISS in not sharing the first several pages of Full-New X-Men.

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>>87477782

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>>87477789

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>>87477803

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>>87477809

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>>87477649
Sit and spin.

>>87477567
Um...

Anon are you mentally deficent?

Angel starts to throw temper tantrums every single time something does not go his his way and acts like a smug little prick when they do. Iceman has literally no character anymore apart from being gay. I am not saying that being gay is bad, I am saying that there was more to him before hand and it can't be ignored. Beast is a massive cunt who has none of the wit and charm he usually has. Cyclops is just a meh character who has lost any appeal he has. Jean Grey is a general cunt who I loathe.

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>>87477816

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>>87477835

>>87475008
Now do you understand why he has to be stopped?
We have to stop him before he does this to the entire Marvel Universe.

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>>87477843

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>>87477876

Let's just be glad that Scott and company didn't lose any of their power or focus after that whole Phoenix thing, or else scenes like this would be impossible or nonsensical. TIGHT plotting.

>>87476406
>it would be of equal quality

right, so we could have just grabbed some random cyborg. instead of deathlok, it would have been just as meaningful to use a no-name reaver.

oh wait that's bullshit.

>>87477781
>misdirection only defensively
>i don't know what a motif is

>the story wouldn't be the same but it would still be good
for you

>i'm not disregarding the context though

that is specifically what you are having to do in order to maintain your position

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>>87477898

And that's it for now. New pages every day posted here:

http://unxannyrewrites.tumblr.com/

>>87477789

this isn't what was in the comic

>>87477824
that's how firemen leave the second floor. that's a reference to emergency response in the 60s and 70s

>>87477944

Keenly-spotted!

It's the beginnings of a parody that I've been working on; re-writing the series for funsies in the same vein as Muh Phoenix, Illuminated Comics and such. Bendis's plotting was too tantalizing a target for this treatment to resist.

>>87475008
Let's not forget how many issues he spent on "The Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier" only to have it end with a retcon of "and now basically none of it ever happened".
Let's not forget that it ended with Eva taking Professor X back in time to abort a guy from existence whose only crime was that he was born to powerful. Yeah that's a GREAT moral for the X-Men.

>>87477829
Have you considered that maybe the rest of the world doesn't view everything through the same shit-smeared lens of smug contempt and mirrored petty simplicity that defines you?

Just look at your own faulty argument:
You claim there was nothing more to Iceman's character beyond some sort of stereotypical depiction of him being gay.
That's what you're arguing. Now.
So, in your eyes, what was his character's depiction in the 39 issues of the comic BEFORE he was outed?
He wasn't outed until the 8th volume. The LAST volume, the second to last issue!
Are you saying you recognized the obvious homosexual characterization BEFORE he was outed?
Is that what you're saying? Because you've been pissy about how "it happened right out of the blue, durp, on a whim! Durp!"
So what was it? It can only be one or the other. Idiot.

>>87478142
different anon here.

>You claim there was nothing more to Iceman's character beyond some sort of stereotypical depiction of him being gay

it wasn't stereotypical. but you thinking a female can come along and tell a male what they're really feeling is very telling.

>>87477781
>the story wouldn't be the same but it would still be good

have you even read AoA? serious question

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>>87478142

Not the guy you're talking to, but:

I think that the sexuality retcon was a fairly late-game decision. At least as of Battle of the Atom it plainly wasn't something that had been planned out. In the first part of the event we see hearts dancing in his eyes as he swoons at the sight of a pretty girl. In the last part we see him talking with his future self, who - after an additional three decades of personal growth and introspection and self-discovery - has nothing more important to offer than tips on picking up girls.

I think the decision to retcon his sexuality came a while later when Bendis decided he needed some big 'legacy' for his time on the X-Men and decided to drop this into his final two issues.

>>87478244
What part of this are you too fucking stupid to understand?

Asshole shithead says : "They made his character about nothing but being gay"

There was 39 issues before he was outed.

WHAT WAS HIS CHARACTER ABOUT BEFORE ISSUE 40 ???

Or are you still too fucking stupid to understand the question?

>>87478318
>39 issues before he was outed

and it was overshadowed by bullshit that you are defending

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>>87478286
Read it again.

Only this time sound out those long words.

>>87478318
>WHAT WAS HIS CHARACTER ABOUT BEFORE ISSUE 40 ???

Not very much, honestly. Bendis is good at writing small casts, but really gets lost in the weeds with bigger casts. Warren and Bobby were barely characters at all. There are some issues in which Warren is present and involved in events throughout the issue but gets like two speech balloons. Bobby mostly just gets little snippy one-liners.

Hank, Jean and Scott got about 90% of the plot and character development. Bendis didn't seem to be too concerned with Bobby and Warren until the big retcon at the end.

>>87478363
>Only this time sound out those long words.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In a world full of gods and aliens and time-travel, sex is the only thing that can possibly be counted as 'amazing.'

>princess

Because gay men are women. Naturally.

>>87476514
They just needed to put him in tighter pants.

>>87478286
Admittedly, there is a long running theory to Bobby being gay that many X-Men fans and writers of the past have believed in. But it does seem kind of cheap to announce it near the end of your run and then do nothing with it. Especially considering how many X-Men issues he wrote, he could have revealed that much earlier.

>>87477824
>This is what faggots use to justify Bobby apparently never liking girls at all.
Just admit you want him to fuck you in the ass, and that's why you're so asshurt.

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>>87478403

That had been put to bed a long time ago.

>>87478363
>O5 came out in 1963
>at that time it the only disney princesses were snow white, cinderella. alice in wonderland is not a princess
>this stupid line about talking raccoons counts as character development for you

unless the 30+ issues before this had him watching modern disney movies, this is bad writing

>>87478403
>Admittedly, there is a long running theory to Bobby
No there isn't retard. There were jokes but Bobby was always interested in girls.

>>87478335
(NOT THAT ANON)
That's because you can't look past this one thing. That's the definition of what being a bigot is.

>>87478446
(Not that Anon)
Seek help anon. You're a massive faggot.

>>87478444
Not that anon, but people have speculated about Iceman's sexuality since the 1990s at the latest. You being ignorant of that fact doesn't mean it never happened.

>>87478446
>this one thing

we're talking about bendis. OP started talking about beast's character being assassinated as well.

>you're a bigot
no, i have literary standards.

for instance, i like the venture brothers character named Shore Leave. he is hilarious and gay. he is a great character and is fun to watch.

if venture bros has an episode where it's revealed that he's actually straight, people will be very upset with the Venture Bros creators.

now fuck off.

>>87478506
>Not that anon, but people have speculated about Iceman's sexuality since the 1990s at the latest.
As jokes you absolute retard. And some people WANTED it to be true. But he was never written as gay until Bendis just arbitrarily made it so.

>>87478444
(because we really really really need that to be true)

>>87478544
not as much as sjws need him to be gay, apparently

>>87478506
>People writing fan fiction and shipping Bobby with other dudes is a totally believable reason for him to be fully gay
You and your buddies writing stories on Tumblr about the X-Men raping your asshole doesn't constitute any real development.

>>87478506

People speculated about it, whilst writers did things like that story with Northstar posted above which explicitly addressed it. The fans doing speculations handwaved it aside.

There was another story a year or so before the sexuality retcon which had Bobby's mind being overwritten by Apocalypse's death-seed. His subconscious mind split off a bunch of duplicates of himself representing who he was deep down inside, the truest, most hidden parts of himself. And what did they do? They raced to protect and preserve every woman he'd ever loved, lusted after and cared for because they were the things that mattered most to him in the world, and wanted to preserve them against the monster which the rest of him was becoming. The people doing speculating handwaved that too.

There's a lot of cherrypicking that went into those speculations.

>>87478544
And apparently you really need him to be gay. Do you self insert as him? Did you have a bad dad who beat you for sucking off dudes in the school parking lot? My sympathies bro but that doesn't make this any less of an ass pull.

>>87478544
>as jokes
That's not how speculation works.
>>87478574
Try to act like less of an underage faggot next time.

>>87478579
N-no anon don't you see? I wrote this really hot fan fiction in Tumblr and have been shipping Bobby with dudes for years! So he was ALWAYS gay!

>>87478623
Who are you pretending to be?

>>87478604
Never a bigger sign of a newfag than a person who tries to defend Bendis' asspulls newfag.

I'm not reading this thread but
Yeah most people didn't like Bendis X-men
I liked some parts of it but the end few arcs really felt like it was trying to grind you down into hating it even more
I skipped black vortex because I just could not be fucked at that point

Anyway I've read on here that Bendis was going to use mysterio, possibly as a continuation of his stuff in Spider-Men maybe, but Slott wouldn't let him. Someone probably already said that though

>>87478634
Good thing I never did that.

>>87478631
Any retard who thinks Bobby being gay was ever actually a thing.

>>87478649
>use mysterio

holy shit that would have been awful

>>87478653
Other than the anon who keeps baiting faggots like you with old scans, who do you think seriously claimed that?

>>87478441

As though Northstar has any meaningful insights on the topic of gay men pretending to be otherwise, living in denial or hiding their true feelings. How are we to take something like THAT more serious than this hilarious Family Guy clip I saw on YouTube once!

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>>87478722
What makes you think that gaydar is any more or less accurate for people who are gay?
If there's any clues that inside knowledge provides then it's not really gaydar, is it?

>>87478579
Of course, that story isn't a very good example of reducing subtext (or anything else because Austen).
>gay guy makes pronouncement about another guy's sexuality
That's like the oldest gay plot point in the big gay book of gay setups.

>woman is talking to me, i better try to seal the deal

>you sexist pig!!


---

>these two comic characters are both men talking to each other

>they obviously want it in the butt

>>87478872

He asked what a person's name is. THIS IS PROOF PEOPLE. Gay sex is what names are for!

>>87478142
Anon who made that post here. Iceman was a non-entity before the whole outing issue. He existed to make 'funny' one liners and act like an immature jackass. That was it. I just summed up all of Bobby's character. There was no arc. No story that needed to be told. Just that.

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>>87478579
This one?

>>87479194
Oh no, that theory was around a lot longer than that.

>>87479216
No I mean was this the story where Iceman had the little clones split off?

>>87479012
> "...one liners and act like an immature jackass." "Just that."

But anon, you're forgetting your side of the argument was about how he was DEFINED by his obvious and overwhelming heterosexuality.
Remember? That's why it's so utterly impossible that HE, out of all of them, could ever possibly be gay.
How could you have forgotten such a large part of his character?
Unless it wasn't a part of his character. Unless that omission was so glaring that you couldn't even bring yourself to remember his personality as "horndog" or "unrepentant skirt-chaser".
Unless sexuality wasn't even a character trait for him before he came out.
Maybe? You think? Why do you think that was?

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>>87479194
He was soo incredibly hetero in that story!
I WISH I could be HALF as hetero as he was in that story!
We couldn't possibly have any better proof of him being hetero than that story!

So are all the homophobe shitposts over yet?
Can we actually have an uninterrupted Xmen thread on /co/ now?

>>87479294
You know heterosexuals can be confused and upset about things too right.

>>87477843
STay on your knees and enjoy Cyclops's C-men.

>>87479314
>Can we actually have an uninterrupted Xmen thread on /co/ now?
This is a terrible thread.

OP claims to have "literary standards" yet won't respect the language typing in nocaps.

>>87479357
You should know better than to respond to suspicious-panels-anon.

>>87477941
Great. Now Bobby's elf-racist. First he was a homophobe. Now he's an elfaphobe. What next?

>>87477071
>cherry picking

that was more like shifting goalposts, but yeah

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>>87479403
This would be a problem if that angry elf AOA Nightcrawler showed up again. Uh, he hasn't shown up since UXF, has he?

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>>87479294
you heard it here, folks. if you're confused about something, you're gay.

wonderwoman is a lesbian because john constantine said it. only the opposite sex can know these things.

>>87477941
That's a hell of a whitewashing of what the Phoenix Five did, Bob. Remember Magik's hell portal in the midwest and how she broke Colossus's mind for funsies?

>>87479424
i've wondered about that. he ran/teleported off with mystique and i don't know if anything else happened afterwards

>>87479424
>>87479460
Are you guys serious?
A quick google search and you'd know he's shown up in X-Terminated.

>>87479396
Read the comic and it's even more obvious than any one panel can show.
But then again if you actually read comics you wouldn't be ignorant about this.

>>87479249
Um... What is going on? I am merely stating that Bobby's character (Bendis Bobby) had no character beforehand and that turning him gay was in my minds, just one of the most idiotic, disrespectful and down right wrong things to do.

Being gay/bi/straight is not and should not be all that defines a character. It is not a flaw, it is not a strength, it is merely a trait. And you cannot, you should not make that trait all that character has.

I'm sorry if my remarks sound quite 'wrong' but at this moment in time, thinking about it and all I am absolutely furious at the entire idea of what happened to Bobby. He was pulled out the closet, despite not foreshadowing or anything of the sort. And now, that's all his character has. It wouldn't be so bad if that entire coming out the closet was treated with respect. But no, it wasn't. Instead we have the pathetic love story of Romeo and Bobby. Bobby's character in X-Men 1-64 have been completely forgotten, despite the fact that Bendis' Bobby is based on that.

The reason, I am so furious about this is that I swing both ways. And for once, in this century I want books, where it is the norm that people like me are treated as people. I don't want to be elavated and protected just because I enjoy the company of both genders in a biblical sense. I as demonstrated here, can be a right asshole. And I want that to be known. That at the end of the day, straight, gay, bi, trans and so on, people are people, for better or for worse.

>>87479512
I just looked that up. So he just went back to AoA? Seems like a pretty weak resolution.

>>87479548
>So he just went back to AoA?
Yeah, but he caused some serious shit. Kinda fun crossover. I'm more bummed that it sorta pooped the bed at the very end on the otherwise amazing AoA series.

It led to a sliver of Apocalypse getting stuck inside Bobby. This is actually what made him gay.

>>87479512
i quick search in my wallet shows up nothing

thanks for the tip though

>>87479583
>buying comics
wew

>>87479575
What actually made him gay is the fact that nobody cares about him except fangirls and dudes who like twinks.

>>87479456
Illyana didn't just do it for fun, she wanted the brother she loves to see her for who she was and not the fantasy he had in his head about an innocent girl that lived in hell for eight years.

>>87479613
you got a link?

>>87479750
Libgen
You can find a reading order on Wikipedia.
Personally, I'd read the AoA series and X-TREME X-MEMES before getting into it though as it doubles as the finale for those two series.

>>87479787
search results turn up nothing. wanna narrow it down to a sub heading for the links on the left?

>>87479539
You aren't taking a highground here. You've posted what you've posted.
If you want to pretend you have been taking this great ethical stand for tolerance, all anyone has to do is scroll up and see what has and hasn't been posted. It's not there.
If you want to pretend that the crap you've posted in this thread doesn't represent your twisted little soul for all it's filth, you actually can -
All you have to do is call out the obvious bigotry for what it is. Admit those claims were all wrong. And that they were indicative of sick minds working through ugly personal issues.

That's all it'll take to prove that you're who you claim. Just say it.

No more hiding behind lies like a coward.

>>87479822
AoA
http://libgen.io/comics/?s=age+of+apocalypse+2012
Also, hunt down the Uncanny X-Force 19.1 as it's the issue 0 for this.
X-Treme
http://libgen.io/comics/?s=x-treme+x-men+2012

>>87479917
thanks

>>87477199
>not exactly

that's exactly what cyclops said. that it didn't matter.

>>87479908
differen't anon here.

why haven't you fucked off yet?

>>87479984
No, I agreed that Scott said that sending them back didn't matter. However, that was when they were fighting SHIELD so their priorities were obviously a bit different. The entire debate of whether or not the O5 should go back in time was just another plot point that was forgotten though because Bendis.

>>87480013
it's been a few years. i thought Beast told Captain America that he didn't know where cyclops was and then SHIELD left, only later to have cyclops come to the school and when magneto said send them back, it was then that cyclops said that it didn't matter. SHIELD looking for cyclops is not the same as "they" were fighting SHIELD. if cyclops said SHIELD was against the mutants when SHIELD was only specifically looking for cyclops, that is passing the buck. correct me if i'm wrong.

>>87480086
Could be. To be honest, I try to forget the Bendis and Aaron run so my knowledge is a bit off.

>>87479917
wtf anon what app am i supposed to use after it's downloaded?

>>87479984
>>87480013
Cyclops said -
It didn't matter if they were in the wrong time, or how dangerous it was to them to help those kids, the objective of the Xmen remained the same: help mutants who need help.
He was talking about taking in kids who had nowhere else to go, that was the right thing to do, anything else - does not matter.

>>87480214
except they should have been sent back. he (and/or you) was/are dismissing the issue at hand.

>>87475991
Shut up Corax. Your Legion is irrelevant.

>>87480231
i've never had the opportunity to play that game. the amount of money it takes to play warhammer is...


HERESY

>>87480229
They are kids that found out that they will be tormented, tortured, driven insane, and killed if they are sent back.
So they need help avoiding a horrible fate.
That's the right thing to do.
Sending children away to suffer and die horribly is the wrong thing to do.

>>87480273
Tell me about it. I bought one package and I'll never do that again. I don't have anyone to play it with here, anyway.
There are always Tabletop Simulator and Warhammer 40k RPG, anyway.

>>87480297
>sending them away to suffer and die horribly is the wrong thing to do

>if they are sent back

let's be real.

marvel is not going to deal with the repercussions of this. they are not going to start an entire news x-men line, make the setting the late 1960s, and tell the story differently.

if this is a boot up for a reboot/rebirth, this is slapstick schlock and no one will take it seriously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSJu9SdqWEQ

>>87480351
Marlel won't send them back, let alone deal with repercussions.

>>87480364
then they're cutting their own nose off and shooting themselves in the foot.

to commit to the O5 at the expense of Dark Beast is nauseating

>>87480192
Comic rack is what I use on my computer.
Cover on my phone.

>>87480376
They can all join him in afterlife for all I care.
And Kidclops won't be paired with Pixie so it's complete defeat for me.

>>87480392
if i had my way i'd shut down O5 and bring back dark beast

>>87480399
We agree that O5 is a mistake so there's that.

>>87480351
They aren't from the '60s.
The original adult versions are in their thirties.

Don't push that shitpost meme here.

>>87480408
you didn't like dark beast?

>>87480419
i was going by the time they were first published.

either way, publishing a whole re-do of x-men would be fantastic hubris

>>87480422
Not that much, not even during Age of Apocalypse.

Btw, does that "Mysterio was supposed to be who messed with P5 powers" meme holds any water?

>>87480450
damn. i thought he was great all throughout. in X-Man too. he could have been a villain for cable as well. there was potential.

i'm at a loss as to why it's acceptable for bendis to take him out but add two more arbitrary beasts, then talk like there were too many of them. i hate bendis so much...

>>87480465
Bendis is Marvel's top dog, he asks and they give.

>>87480484
>top dog

i didn't know that. that's fucking sad bullshit. incredibly disheartening. how does such a hack get a job like that?

>>87480408
By the standards of Marvel's normal catastrophic mistakes/day-to-day operations, they're pretty benign.

>>87480465
>>87480484
And the second future Dark Beast is history.
They freed him from Xavier Jr.'s brainwashing and sent him home.
It's just past and future Hank now.

>>87480551
He was was once the most mystical man in all Marlelland. 'Member Daredevil and Ultimate Spider-Man? Nigger kickstarted whole universe.
>>87480560
They aren't even catastrophe anymore. Killing them does jack shit to adults.
>>87480579
Redpill me, Xavier Jr.'s Dark Beast is older 616 Beast, right?

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>>87480579
baka

it's still bullshit. past hank shouldn't even be there.

pic related is written by Mike Carey.

Mike Cary that wrote Lucifer. wrote an x-men comic with Beast as the protagonist.

and Bendis is just going to throw it in the trash, like it doesn't matter.

>>87480297
and what happens if one of them dies before being sent back? that's a greater danger

>>87480675
Nothing, since time is buttfucked.

>>87480608
>Xavier Jr.'s Dark Beast

I don't know how old he is, if he's the original adult Blue Beast he's quite old.
If he's the younger time-displaced version of Beast after something tragic that turns him beastly too, then he's about the same age as adult Hank.

>>87480707
Checked, it's 616 Beast.

>>87479539
Here's the thing to understand. Every character who flirts with a lot of women is actually gay deep down. Because (obviously) why else would he flirt with so many women and not settle down.

Seriously, go find a character who has multiple love interests yet remains a bachelor (or hell, doesn't remain a bachelor) And there will be people proclaiming the homosex because "Why else would he flirt with women."

>>87480675
At this point they'll probably just handwave it as the journey forward being sufficiently divergent that it's no longer tied to their original reality. The entire story doesn't work if you have them be literally the same people as the present versions.

>>87480681
well if there's no consequences then this argument falls flat:

>>87480297

>>87480675
>>87480681
Time in Marvel's 616 universe is broken like a cut string: it's still a string, it's just not connected to that other part, and it's prone to fraying apart now if there's any more damage.
Right now there's a bunch of heroes in a bunch of books that want to repair it, and sending the O5 back would go a ways toward that end, but if they stay put and never return or even die, all that means is that the cut string is never remade whole ever again.

>>87480749
i haven't read death of x yet but i read in another thread about on of the scotts getting hurt and almost dying which made the other one fade in and out. is that true?

>>87480769
That's from Bendis' run. Such thing can't happen anymore.

>>87480712
They are both 616 Beast. So is future Brotherhood's Dark Beast.

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>>87480776
madness

>>87480782
Yeah, but you know what I meant.
>>87480790
Madness? X-Men.

>>87480769
That happened in "Battle of the Atom", and everyone panicked, but before they could send them back Jean decided to run and that's when adult Cyclops offered them sanctuary.
Of course, after some delay and future visitors and visits they were finally put on the time-platform but by then too much time had passed and too many things had changed and there had been too much time-travelling around and the machine wouldn't take them.
Now-a-days there's almost no time-travel tricks that will work around them, they're time-busted.

>>87480847
>dat angry Kitty because Jean went to Rightclops' room and they had zero sex
It's not like Jean has anything Scott didn't see already.

>>87480818
>madness? x-men

yeah but i think it's time i just dropped x-men then. if the writers don't give a shit why should i? if dark beast is gone i think that's it for me. not like i have the money for it anyway

>>87475008
http://collider.com/x-men-movies-comics-chris-claremont/

http://nerdist.com/did-marvel-comics-just-silently-kill-the-x-men/

>>87475254
He is fucking shit anon

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>>87480906
>tfw they have NO MORE NEW MUTANTS
>Claremont creates one anyway because fuck you
>he creates unholy hybrid of man and scorpion
What waste of paper.

>>87480934
it's skarner's bastard love child!

>>87481333
Skarner has moar bling, though.

>>87478142
Oh, hey, it's the 'complaining about Iceman makes you homophobic' anon again.

Could you just make a trip so people know better than to argue with you on a topic that you never change your opinion on ever? Thanks

>>87477567
>>87477824
>>87478142
>>87478318
>>87478363
>>87478544
>>87479249
>>87479908
See this asshole? He shows up every time Bendis turning Iceman gay comes up in a discussion. He's an asshole who can't argue his point without belittling his opponents and calling them homophobes. Recognize him and recognize his writing patterns, and the next time you see him, call him an asshole and move on. It's not worth the effort to try and argue with him.

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>>87475126

>>87477941
1. Missed a great opportunity to point out that Kitty is wearing the very same outfit as Marge in the episode where she's pretending to be rich for her rich friends
2. There's a joke here about Northstar's closet homosexuality and pointy ears being first tied to being half-fairy, before he was revealed gay in that AIDS issue of Alpha Flight

>>87475254
Yeah betcha luke cage and his white lady are all screwed too, right? Fucking humpty dumpty, fat ni-

>>87477983
>Let's not forget how many issues he spent on "The Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier" only to have it end with a retcon of "and now basically none of it ever happened".
It retconned Mystique and Xavier being unexplicably married and having a child born at the end of AvX so dodging that bullet enough for me

>>87479575
>X-termination makes sure that Earth-295 is forever severed from the multiverse
>Franklin probably remade it just so everyone in it can suffer under Apocalypse's or whomever's foot again
T-thanks Secret Wars

I love this thread. A lot of continuity, arguments, and few casuals. Every other marvel thread is bombed with "that one page from a book that triggers /co/" and all discussion is render useless. Making any marvel thread is impossible, you just get called a shill, a pay agent, a swj, etc. And yeah I still believe they make good comics. And I started with Kirby. Anyway nice thread.

>>87475254
Go home, Brian.

>>87482810
But i like those bait threads.