When did Marvel go to shit?

>>87461696
It's still good and all you have to do is wait until the big 2 shake up their artists and writers again before Marvel can take over

This whole Marvel vs DC thing is so overplayed when they have both been toeing the same level of quality for quite some time. Post-Civil War you still have stuff like Uncanny X-Force and Immortal Iron Fist. Nu52 exists. It's baseless company wars.

>>87461713
I'm not saying DC is any better (though I wouldn't know as I don't really read DC), but I think its disingenuous to pretend Marvel hasn't been in a slump for a long time.

Any title I pick up that they put out before like 2002-2005ish, I can feel pretty confident that it will at least be entertaining and not irritating. Now I don't read any of their stuff unless its a really good writer like Remender or its got really good reviews from non-SJW sites. Their lesser books have gone from mediocre to almost aggressively off-putting. The people they bring in now seem to either hate all the past storylines or treat them with such reverence that they just blandly retread them.

File: 05.jpg (13KB, 278x265px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 278x265px

>>87461713
>It's still good

File: 143547898134.png (195KB, 1400x1207px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 1400x1207px

Gosh, I wonder.

>>87461696
After AvX.

I wouldn't say Marvel is shit, but the "Ultimate"/1610 universe was lame as fuck.

Sometime around Fraction's Hawkeye becoming a hit.

>>87461843
Mah nigga.
>Neil Gaiman writes for DC/Vertigo
>masterworks
>Neil Gaiman writes for Marvel
>lame books

>>87461859
Is Fraction Hawkeye the COD4 of comics.

>>87461881
>COD4
It depends. Does it have a LE PIZZA DOGE XD ?

>>87461887
In terms of influence and how everyone tries, to copy and failed.

Daring Mystery #1.

Pulp publishers have always been reactionary, they've always mistreated employees, they've always been searching for a quick buck. That's never changed and it never will.

>>87461914
I don't give a rats ass about their business practices, their books have gone to shit. Its two completely different things.

>>87461896
Then it is.

>>87461928
Well, bad working conditions can ruin the quality of the product.

Avengers vs X-Men

When Shooter became EIC

>>87461951
Byrne pls

>>87461937
But as you just said, they've always had bad working conditions. Yet the product has never been so consistently poor.

There's no correlation.

>>87461761
Remender hasn't worked or them in a year

>>87462031
And?

When bendis wrote guardians

>>87461696
when they started to cater to the people who only watch the movies, instead of the ones who watch them and also buy comics.

Their current business strategy is just to appear trendy, now that they are part of Disney and money is not a problem. Having red numbers constantly made them push for new directions and get creative. Sure, sometimes they failed hard, but we also got classics. Most probably Disney doesnt even care about the comics department, unless they make too many people angry. And most of the creative people left, and the ones who stood see SJWs and Political correcness as an easy way to stay relevant and just keep going safely.

In other words, Marvel comics is dead, long live Marvel Studios.

>>87461860
What you mean is 1602, and the initial series by Gaiman was nice. I only read New World and Fantastick Four after that, and I think Lord Iron, while a cool concept, was completely wasted, and Fantastick Four was jsut boring.

>>87462064
Actually it can be traced back to Avengers Disassembled in 2004.

What you see at Marvel now(er) is the logical continuation of Bendis's philosophy, the endgame of what he started.

>>87462064
>when they started to cater to the people who only watch the movies, instead of the ones who watch them and also buy comics.

Sad part is they don't even really hide this fact.

>>87462096
I think there is definitely an argument to be made that Bendis' prominence at Marvel was the beginning of the dark age.

>>87462020
>as you just said
Not that anon.
>they've always had bad working conditions
They're surely better than in the 1940s, I'm sure. Especially if you're an exclusive.

>>87461928
That was my point: they've been putting out shit books since their second book because of their business practices. There are always good and bsd books at Marvel. Sometimes more of one than the other, but this has always been the case.

The fact that you're ranting about the bad ones instead of praising the good ones just proves Brevort right.

>>87461761
>Any title I pick up that they put out before like 2002-2005ish, I can feel pretty confident that it will at least be entertaining and not irritating.
The fuck are you on about? Most of Marvel's 90's output was terrible. If you picked up a Spidey or X-Men book at the time you were almost guaranteed garbage.

>>87461696
When they fired Jim Shooter

>Capeshit

>>87461696
For me, AvX was the breaking point.

>>87462263
Only if he buys the comics he's mad about, ass.

>>87461803
Nigga pls. Disney has been so hands-off with Marvel it sunk Disney Infinity.

If anything, Disney needs to intervene in editorials stupid decisions.

>>87462290
Yeah, this era is about as readable as that one.

I would say that they have never really recovered from the Image exodus.

>>87461713
>It still good
It had what? Vision, New Avengers...? What else?
The Amadeus Cho Hulk? Ms. Marvel?

All their flagship titles beside New Avengers are spinning on their wheels and either rehashing old plots who were done better before or being a snore fest.

File: Heavy_faceposer.png (145KB, 240x268px) Image search: [Google]

145KB, 240x268px

>>87462791
>this era is about as readable as that one

>>87461696
Nick Spencer

>>87462916
He's been there what, 6 years?

I can see it as the beginning of the end.

I disagree that Civil War was the tipping point. I think that should be Fear Itself and the murder of BuckyCap.

After Civil War/OMD we had some seriously good stuff in the X-Men, Dark Reign was just around the corner, with War of Kings om the way, and there were lots of good solos. The absolute breaking point would probably be All-New Marvel Now. I may be alone in this, but after CW, Spider-Man was no longer the measuring point for the pulse of Marvel.

At least through Dark Reign Marvel felt cohesive in its direction, which was one of its strengths through the aughties.

>>87461938
This seems like a good place.

It wasn't the first event to end with a big wet fart, but it was probably the most disappointing, and it just went downhill from there

Secret Wars. The original one.

>>87461696
The 1990's. It's been a steady decline since then

>>87461696
It was around 2014 when the Inhumans push started, the X-Men and Fantastic Four started to get sidelined, and various other things happened that were clearly driven by editorial edict rather than story (like retconning Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch not to be Magneto's children).

Add in the replacement heroes - though some of the replacements made sense, like Sam taking over for Captain America - and 2014 really feels like the beginning of what people are complaining about Marvel.

>>87463809
>2014
That's when All-New Marvel Now started.

When they started taking the dumb Squirrel Girl wins all fights meme and running with it.

It wasn't complete shit after Civil War. There were still some titles I would read after that. The number of titles I would read kept shrinking once they got canceled and now I only read their Star Wars titles.

>>87463879
>read their Star Wars titles
Liking cock, huh?

>>87461761
>I don't really read DC
What do you read then? Just Marvel? How can you speak for the quality of DC if you don't even read it?

>>87462064
>Marvel comics is dead, long live Marvel Studios.
>He doesn't know Feige confirmed the MCU is on the same path to pandering oblivion.

>>87463809
>though some of the replacements made sense, like Sam taking over for Captain America
So tired of this meme.

>>87463983
Why would he read something he isn't interested in?
And why should he compare Marvel to other publishers in order to think if it's doing good or bad? You can judge something without making comparisons, you know.

>>87461696
Whedon's Xmen without a doubt.

>>87462093
>Lord Iron
My favorite part of 1602. And evil Banner/good Hulk and their rape of king James.

>>87464078
*in order to know

>>87464054
>tfw you liked BuckyCap, but not so much SamCap
That said, I did like the 7 or 8 issues of ANCA a whole lot.

>>87464084
This, Grant had set Marvel's flagship title up for decades worth of stories with them giving up being super hero and just being a race trying to survive again and Whedon squandered it and brought in the age of bad storytelling with cool character moments.

>>87461696
Secret Invasion.

>>87464084
>>87464123
>people that hate AXM

My brothers.

>>87464078
>Why would he read something he isn't interested in?
That's not the point I'm making.

>>87462894
And by that I meant unreadable, faggot. >>87463754
>og Secret Wars
You really see the negative impact of it while reading longer runs. Suddenly there is a chunk of story missing. Some writers, like Simonson Just steamrolled over it as if nothing happened. Clremont trid to work it on, which sucked.
SW itself is shit. I can't get past the second issue either. Holy fuck, Shooter.

Back in the 90s, when evil Wanda tortured Wonder Man by giving him a blowjob

>>87464358
Yeah, it's on my shelf just because I'm an obsessive but shooter was a hack. How do you make marvels first big ass crossover so totally stifling and boring? Even Spider-man is dull as hell in it.

>>87464376
Blowjobs from hot tittie monster sorceresses are the worst torture of all.

>>87464358
B-but I read SW as a kid and I liked it. If I reread it, I will feel terribly disappointed? ;_;

>>87464404
Shooter was a great editor, but an average writer.

>>87463983
>What do you read then? Just Marvel?
You do understand that Marvel and DC are not the only publishers out there right?

>How can you speak for the quality of DC if you don't even read it?
I have not said anything about DC. This thread is not about DC. I don't need to read DC to notice that Marvel (which I do read) has declined in quality dramatically.

>>87464120
>>87464054
I don't think it so much matters even whether it was good, it was just a story that obviously was going to be done sometime, so it didn't feel as editorially mandated as, say, Amadeus becoming the Hulk.

>>87464585
>You do understand that Marvel and DC are not the only publishers out there right?
This is why I asked the question in the first place.

>I have not said anything about DC.
Yes we established this.

>I don't need to read DC to notice that Marvel (which I do read) has declined in quality dramatically.
Again, that's not the point. The point is you said

>>87461761
>I'm not saying DC is any better
As if you know DC is on the same level as Marvel, and yet you don't read DC at all. So how can you claim to have any knowledge of DC's quality?

>>87462263
I don't buy the bad ones though. I torrent them, go "yep, that's shit" and delete them. Now I barely even do that. As much as faggots like Brevoort wanted to pretend audience apathy isn't inevitably going to set in, it is.

>>87462791
Nah. 90s stuff was at least trying to be cool and appealing. Even if a lot of it is stupid, it can put a smile on your face and be enjoyed semi-ironically. The new stuff is not so much stupid as it is completely incompetent and borderline insulting.

>>87463928
They're not amazing, but the rest of Marvel's titles aren't worth reading.

File: tinfoilhat.jpg (29KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 400x300px

>>87464640
Will you let it go?

>>87461887
No, that would be CoD: Ghosts.

>>87464267
You're not making any coherent point at all.

>>87464419
>B-but I read SW as a kid and I liked it. If I reread it, I will feel terribly disappointed? ;_;
Its pretty dire. Its like one of those old Reagan-era cartoons that were just glorified toy commercials.

>>87461696
The current level of shit is 100% because of Axel Alonso. Fuck that guy.

>>87464640
From my saying that I wasn't saying anything about DC, you're inferring that I'm making a judgement on DC?
Why the fuck are you so obsessed with making this a company wars thing? I DO NOT CARE ABOUT DC. I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS GOOD OR BAD OR JUST OKAY RIGHT NOW. I AM NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT DC. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT DC. FOR FUCK'S SAKE LET IT GO YOU FANBOY FAGGOT.

Post-Secret Wars

Losing Hickman and Remender was a huge blow to quality Marvel comics.

>>87464687
Fair enough, I liked Lim Surfer and Infinty Gauntlet.

only /co/ really seems to be strongly anti marvel.

>>87465351
>Hickman and Remender was a huge blow to quality Marvel comics
Fixed.

>>87461696
When they thought it was a good fucking idea to reboot their shit yet again.

>>87461696
It would have to have been after Dark Reign.

Dark Reign was so good.

>>87465510
>was
>*were
Ftfy, you illiterate trash.

Oh, and you're wrong.

File: image.jpg (64KB, 750x427px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 750x427px

>>87465492
Nah, it is everywhere. Nice try though. That's okay they don't like paying customers, any way.

>>87465607
Who's Spencer referring to?

>>87465652
The Distinguished Competition I guess?
I'm not sure what that anon was getting at with that image.

>>87461696
I wanna say secret wars.

They've been in a slump for a while, but before then there were usually at least a couple books i was actually interested in, as well as writers I liked. Now it's mostly a bunch of mid-tier talent trying to hold everything together. Nothing they have really looks interesting. If there is a concept i'd be interested in (say iron doom), it's ruined with the talent they put on it.

Besides the lack of talent, it's hard to take new legacy characters seriously since marvel are so shameless about it.

>>87465652
Probably Hydra, given how he's written an anti-immigration speech more convincing than anything Trump has ever said.

>>87465652
Probably yelling at clouds again. Uncle Spencer is whacky like that.

>>87465652
>>87465673
Not that anon, but to explain.

The guys he is referring to are people he calls Wednesday Warriors, which is a term I think came from BleedingCool.

Basically it's anti-"progressive" readers who buy comics. Spencer was lamenting that the audience Marvel wants isn't buying comics, and the audience they don't want is.

This particular tweet came from an extended rant during the Mockingbird thing about a week ago or so

>The Distinguished Competition I guess?
He *did* actually have a go at them too, claiming they had given up on attempting to be progressive.

>>87465821

Wednesday Warriors is an old as fuck term that's for the people who are there every week getting the latest Batman/X-Men/Superman/Spider-Man/Event/A-List Book. The reliable base of superhero readers

>>87465846
I was not aware of that. They were using it as more of a negative thing so I assume it was more recent.

File: endless urgh.png (119KB, 306x275px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 306x275px

assumed*

fuck

don't drink and post, kids

>>87461696
Clone saga.

>>87463983
Literally who said anything about DC?

>>87462502
This is the only reasonable answer.
Jim Shooter demanded the workers to have their submissions on time, and adhere to the "Every comic could be someone's first." policy.

DC during the 70's, 80's, and even early 90's had more TV and Movie exposure but Marvel consistently outsold them due to issue quality. This is the honest legacy of Jim Shooter being the ruthless office tyrant.

As a reader from the late 70's on, I stopped reading X-men (was a big fan) when the team stepped through the Siege Perilous and ceased to be a team for over a year and a half. All of them were scattered across the globe. I think that particular stage marked the decline of Marvel comics and had me start to pick up DC titles like Flash.
For me, DC went into decline when Young Justice tanked.

>>87466034
>"Every comic could be someone's first."
Terrible for usual readers, to have characters showing/telling their powers, the current situation, etc.

>>87466034
As a follow-up, to do some more derailing, I secretly wish that all comic companies aspired to hold their storytelling quality to the standards of Stan Sakai.
Could you imagine how good the recent Champions issues could have been if they got a writer with a real vision as well as experience? We deserved better.

>>87466054
Have you read anything from that period or are you just assuming?

>>87465846
And Marvel hates those guys- the same way fuckass teen hates his parents who pay for his entire existence.
SOMEDAY I AM GOING TO MOVE OUT AND DIE MY HAIR COLOR I WANT, DAD!! BUY ME AN X-BOX, FATTY!

>>87466054
But it also cracks a whip on the writers to "get to the point" with their storytelling pacing and dialogue - without it, we got Bendis.

>>87466068
>we deserved better
That's a lie and you know it.

>>87466076
That Terrax arc in Byrne's FF, for instance. Galactus explains the FF (well, the readers) what happened in previous issues. So relax.

>>87466085
Fair point.

>>87466034
>Young Justice
Never understood the appeal.

>>87466103
I'm just saying it's not as much of a rule as you make it out to be.
It's not like they reintroduced characters every issue.

>>87465492
Just because I think its in a slump right now doesn't mean I'm "anti-Marvel". I hate this fanboy attitude that if you don't like the direction something you're a fan of takes you're a heretic.

>>87461696
>implying Marvel wasn't always the shitheaded hipster kid with no appreciation to history or tradition.

File: 215-7.jpg (60KB, 420x644px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 420x644px

>>87466076
Above poster, and my first marvel comic that I purchased from a Thrifty drug store was this one. My older brother had purchased an issue and after reading it, I wanted one of my own.

>>87465821
...wait, he's hating on the people WHO ACTUALLY BUY AND READ COMICS?

His actual audience?

Are we building up to another "Gamers are Dead" moment?

>>87466054
>>87466076
It's not really too bad. Usually its just a caption.
The only time it is an issue is when they have a characer show up and their entire history has to be told, brining the current story to halt.

The other legacy of Shooter is not so great and that is the event comic.

>>87465510
Remender is great, but Hickman is the Shyamalan of comics. He did some good stuff early on and convinced everyone he was a Morrison/Moore/Gaiman/Kirby-tier genius and then when he actually had to get into the big leagues and pay shit off he proved to be a massive disappointment. Even with his indie stuff he can't make shit pay off or even get his work done on time.

>>87466096
Nope. When you slap 3.99 on an issue you do NOT fill it with a pair of pages with repeated panel syndrome. There is Zero (0) justification for that.

>>87466150
Holy fuck, mine was CAP 200, Anon.

File: 10313225_10152353988007488_5837093836619637207_n.jpg (88KB, 630x960px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 630x960px

>>87461696
After they killed Richard Rider and the movies started to make more money.

>>87465882
The Clone Saga was not even that bad. It became a clusterfuck toward the end, but it was full of good ideas and good writing on the micro-level.
Same with Onslaught really. The first truly awful big crossover was Heroes Reborn imo.

File: 151-3.jpg (53KB, 420x641px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 420x641px

>>87466171
Marvel comics were goddamned stellar back then. Cap, Avengers, Spidey, Iron Man and Thor were my 4 'must have' issues back then. The ratio of 'meh' to 'bretty gud' was close to 1 dull issue out of 6.

>>87466261
er, 5 'must have'.

>>87466034
>DC during the 70's, 80's, and even early 90's had more TV and Movie exposure but Marvel consistently outsold them due to issue quality.
It is pretty cool to me how even when Marvel had basically no media presence beyond the comics, they were popular enough to get major video game adaptations. Remember Maximum Carnage? You'd never get an A-list game adaptation of a comic-exclusive storyline like that nowadays.

>>87465882
Secret Wars II was pure, utter shit in terms of an understandable story and decent art. Holy shit, anything with New Mutants in that arc looked like hell.
Inferno was especially bad too.

For modern Marvel, the downfall started with Fear Itself, and specifically the changing of the guard between Joe Quesada and Axel Alonso.

Rag on Quesada as much as you want, but he was at least willing to push for new creators, his Young Gun initiative for example, and try new plots and character arcs. His most egregious errors were his edicts of "No More Mutants" and the dissolution of Spider-Man's marriage, but it was balanced out with stuff like Annihilation and willing to take chances on titles like Agents of Atlas.

Since Axel has become EiC, we've had to deal with this bullshit "episodic season" arcs for stories, and there's more of a focus on diversity and gaining press from pissing off the audience.

>>87466138
There is definitely an elegance to telling a serialized story where each of the parts is pleasing on its own.
Like I kind of dislike stuff like Game of Thrones when compared to Buffy or Doctor Who or even Lost because with GoT each "episode" just feels like an arbitrary slice of a bigger story, while all those other shows tell longform stories while also having each episode have its own miniature arc.

>>87461696
>Where is the point where Marvel's decline really became apparent?
Either Secret Wars II or X-factor #1. So around 1986.

>>87466412
>the downfall started with Fear Itself
Bullshit. 2010-2015 Marvel is significantly better than the fucking shitshow that was 2005-2009 Marvel.

>>87461696
Marvel is no worse than it's been for the past 30 years, kid.

>>87466151
Really anon, I don't know why you're surprised. They've been trying very hard for about 2-3 years now to get a new audience.

>>87466412
>Fear Itself
I agree.

>>87466476
He's right, there have been some stand-out gems, but on the whole the whole calibre is a lot worse.

>>87466476
They're both shitshows, they're just different kinds of shitshows.
05-09 was the era where the manchildren took over and started trying to force the canon in 50 different directions so it would fit their childhood headcanons.
10-15 is the opposite problem where you have writers who don't give a shit, hate the traditional audience, don't know the history or the characters at all, don't read back issues, and just use the books as self-promotion and soapboxes.

>>87466169
There is: big 2 readers are battered housewives

>>87466499
>1980s Marvel not better than nu-Marvel
Opinion discarded. And I say that as someone born in the early 90s who has no nostalgic attachment to any era pre-00s.

>>87466476
Gonna need proof there, kid.

>>87466151
They're white dudes on the wrong side of history of course he hates them

>>87466151
>"Gamers are dead"

I'm pretty sure there was literally an article about how comic book fans are dead following that Mockingbird shit

>>87466705
Was it that, or more along the lines of "sexism is nerd culture" or whatever mental gymnastics they use?

>>87466705
CBR did an article about how fandom was broken because people on twitter """""harrassed""""" Chelsea Cain by telling her her book sucked

>>87466747
The author of the article even said something along the lines of "I'm a white cishet male and I need to check my priveledge"

>>87466423
I dropped GoT at episode 1 partly because they had the gall to already have a cliffhanger. Straight up manipulation.

>>87466499
Balogna

>>87467863
Yeah cliffhangers are one of the cheapest narrative tools in existence.
One of my favorite pilots of all time is the first episode of Fringe because it tells a complete story with a beginning, middle, and end, but leaves so much possibility for future stories that you feel compelled to keep watching. In contrast, a cliffhanger is just playing on your anxieties to force you to continue to tune in. Its why I stopped watching The Walking Dead.

>>87463303
>>87461696
Genuinely wondering: when did you start reading Marvel? Do you really think Marvel was on a consistent upswing until 2005? You think everything before 2005 was good?

>>87469239
Everything before 1990 was good.

>>87461696

John Hickman. The rot really set in during his run on Avengers / New Avengers.

Correlation is not causation. It's 'during', not 'because'.

>>87466747
Good point. Having the comic reporting media that supposedly represents us actively hate us and hate fandom is already laying to groundwork.

>>87466705
(archive) Link plz

See, I've been around for a while, and recently read through the entire run of the Fantastic Four - including the 90s - on Marvel Unlimited.

So I STILL don't think Marvel is in decline. Hell from my perspective some of the stuff it's doing is very interesting - take, for example, Tom King's Vision.

>>87462785
The movies have far less progressive pandering and obviously based on box office far greater mainstream appeal, yet people are really itching to blame the mouse for Marvel's decline.

>>87470036
>an already finished book means Marvel is doing well
Nope.

>>87470102

Seriously? The last issue of that came out a month ago.

Is OP only asking about when Marvel has gone into decline since October 26, 2016?

>>87470150
Yes, Vision has already ended.

>>87461696

Just out of curiosity, OP, how old are you?

>>87470206

Okay, then I guess Marvel went into decline some time in the past nine days. Only one comic release day has occurred in that span, so the answer to OP's question is probably October 2, 2016.

OP, Marvel has been in decline since October 2, 2016.

>>87470150
Yes. I blame Champions and Occupy Avengers.

>>87469254
Secret Wars II came out in 1985.

>>87470295

My bad. November 2, 2016.

>>87470304
>and Occupy Avengers
Why? Occupy Avengers was good.

>>87470295
>>87470327
You seem upset.

>>87470343

No, Vision guy helped narrow down the question. It was very productive.

>>87470342
Ok, fine, I just blame Champions.

It was nice seeing Red Wolf again, though he seemed almost like a different character.

>>87470343
What do you expect from Marvel shills? They're in a constant state of being upset.

>>87470376
That one is subtle, at least. Maybe he even gets money for shilling and everything.

>>87470403
Yeah, I almost would have been fooled if he didn't fuck up by implying that Marlel isn't unreadable garbage.

>>87469239
Not everything was good, but something being bad was notable and almost nothing was in that "I can't believe they actually published this." zone that so much of their stuff falls into now.

>>87470275
23. I started actively following Marvel during Civil War. I have zero nostalgic attachment to anything before that.

>>87462031
Remender is shit, what's your point?

>>87466303
Funny you mention the New Mutants, because that one tie-in to SWII is one of the best comics I've ever read.

>>87461808
i agree

File: Marvel NOW!.jpg (2MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1988x3056px

>>87461696
>ctrl+f
>2012
>0 results

It went to shit around the time Marvel Now started happening. I mean, it wasn't significantly better before, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it was after.

File: 1477977227580.jpg (39KB, 396x382px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 396x382px

>>87461696

You know I will say I don't think Marvel had one era that led to there downfall but a collection of bad Habits that piled up.
>Event comics from Shooter
>Bad communications from Bob Harras between editing teams and books
>Jemas focus trades and making cover just pin up
yadad yada you get the picture.

>>87470036
name 3 other books as interesting as tom king's vision (which just finished last week anyway)

>>87461696
I'm relatively new to the comics scene (maybe started a year or two ago) so I've tried reading from both DC and Marvel.

I don't really have any preference for heroes, I enjoy both company's movies and my standards are pretty low when it comes to what I find entertaining (I don't understand the hat behind the DCEU).

That being said, Marvel has just dialed the SJW and PC to such an extreme that it's annoying. Ethnic heroes are being pushed as if they're already superior to their Caucasian counterparts (the ironman chick) instead of, you know, becoming their own characters. The emphasis on social issues would be nice if they didn't literally shove it down my throat (that one page where a female villain decides to let female Thor go cuz girl power!). Social commentary is good when there are lessons made from it. Not just as a side note for a few characters.