Let's discuss the current state of ETERNITY

>>87422834
It's not really "secret" build up. It's pretty clear and obvious build up for Eternity War.

>>87422834
well whatever did it has been indicated as being the huge thing Maker wants to merge all the universes together and form an army to fight

might be related to why the ultimate universe wasn't remade

>>87422834
Eternity is into some kinky shit.

>>87422834
the chains represent disney's ownership of marvel

or the burden of capitalism on a supposedly creative endeavor limiting the kinds of stories they are allowed to tell because the marketing department is stuck up their own ass on how accurate their graphs are at predicting where the money is

or bendis

maybe all of the above

So is Eternity War going to be a reboot?

We don't know

Ultimate Reed maybe knows something?

Galactus is investigating

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>>87425734
If they were smart they'd use it to do a Rebirth of sorts.

But they aren't so no.

didn't they gave a brief explanation on Starbrand & Nightmask?

"Eternity in chains" is a powerful image on itself, Regardless of reasons.

Is the Living Tribunal still dead?

>>87426278
Which issue? I haven't been keeping up.

>>87426405

i believe so?

>>87426405
Adam Warlock of Earth-14209 is currently acting living tribunal

>>87425734
I doubt it. Seems more like something Ewing is doing in his books. Should be fun.

>>87425756
Go back to DC Gary.

>>87426410
Something about Eternity's children trying to re-seek balance on issue 3 and 4, I think.

>>87426645
Just finished reading that and it seems to raise more questions than it gives answers.

>>87426405
The Living Tribunal is dead?
Man, I sort of stopped reading Marvel around the time of the heroic age so obviously I missed out on a ton of shit but WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED? Pandering to minorities by inserting new characters into old roles is one thing, but even beyond that it's like every aspect of Marvel is completely unrecognizable to me. I mean DC went through New52 and I hated it, but it still sort of felt DCish, you know? Marvel just feels like a completely different universe.

>>87428666
the beyonders decided to start wiping out all of creation to basically find out what happens when the whole multiiverse bluescreens, and took out a significant number of abstracts and cosmic powers that they felt would get in the way of their grand experiment

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>>87426405
He cameoed in Ultimates recently.

>>87423188
I'm sure they're building up for some kind of synergy to coincide with the next Avengers movies.

kinda outta the loop here but I'll ask anyway. why is Galactus yellow now?

>>87429207
He's been evolved to become the Lifebringer, Seeder of Worlds.
When his old boss, Master Order, tried to force him back to the old status quo, Galactus punched him in the face.

>>87429207
Alolan form

>>87429264
that sounds pretty cool actually. the yellow looks kinda lame though.

>>87429207
tl;dr
>universe getting turned off and on again kicked it into its 8th incarnation, quantum physics are slightly more complex
>allows the formation of stable Iso-8
>Galactus was prophesized to give back all the energy he took when the universe and the new one begins
>since that technically happened, a bunch of super genius and powerful heroes calling themselves The Ultimates hatched a plan to kick Galactus back into the machine that transformed him from a mortal into Galactus, pump the machine to the brim with Iso-8, and kickstart his transformation into a new form
>it works
>Galactus is now Lifebringer
it's all covered in the first few issues of Ewing's Ultimates

>>87429207
He went Super Saiyan.

>>87429325
so is Lifebringer a title or his name now? because I don't know if I can get behind the name change. everything else sounds pretty good though.

>>87429403
A title.

>>87429403
A title. He's Galactus the Lifebringer: Seeder of Worlds like how before he was Galactus the Devourer: Eater of Worlds.

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>>87429403
it's just a title. another fun fact: Molecule Man now outranks him and nearly everything else

>>87429325
so is that what marvel is doing. making villains into heroes and heroes into villains?

>>87429499
no, they did that already.

>>87429533
yeah for like 2 years right? cyke, black cat, doom

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>>87429499
Has that ever not been the case?
>oh no, Namor is invading the surface again because someone shat off the side of a boat
>oh no, Jean is possessed
>Magneto, please lead the Xavier school
>Venom is cool now, lethal protectah!
>god damn it Pym is off his meds again
>oh hi Dr Doom, so glad you're here to help us save the day.
>shit, Vision got hacked again
>yeah, sorry Cap. We're ALL leaving the Avengers. but here's three ex-supervillains to replace us
>for fucks sakes Wanda just stop
>remember that random mercenary in red and black? look how tormented he is.
>Kaine wants to be hardcore but the universe wont let him
>shit, Tony kinda went full fascist there
>MAGNETO WAS RIGHT
>what the fuck did we just say Wanda?
>where did it all go so wrong, SHIELD?
>CYCLOPS WAS RIGHT
>maybe this whole illuminati thing was a bad idea
>CYCLOPS=HITLER

>>87429676
no I was talking the Axis thing.

>>87429166
If that was the case, someone besides Ewing would also be doing it.

>>87429098
omg

why are they all men...?

>>87430007
...

>>87430007
just those ones. Death is female. I'm pretty sure a few of the other Cosmic entities are female too.

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Fuck Eternity

Let's discuss the best cosmic level character:

Based Owen Reece

>>87430109
who's more powerful. Molecule Man or Dr. Manhattan?

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>>87430149
Owen at full power is a Multiversal threat who was on the level as the original Beyonder

>makes the Living Tribunal and all other near omnipotent characters scared by walking into the room

>>87430149
Molecule Man. He isn't constrained by fatalism

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>>87430109
>>87430211


Fuck, I hate the idea of this character. Even more so than Franklin Richards.

>Create a fictional multiverse full of cosmic beings that are literally facets and manifestations of reality itself
>Some writer shits out some Mary-Sue tier human character that completely invalidates their existences

I wish comic books would stop this. Like I get the narrative appeal of man transcending his mortality and becoming something greater, whether metaphorically or literally, but this shit is just too far.

>>87431978
>Some writer shits out some Mary-Sue tier human character that completely invalidates their existences
That writer would be Stan Lee with the help of Jack Kirby years, and for some decades, before any of the abstracts' creation.

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>>87431978
While I generally agree, I think that the writing here is good enough that I can ignore the issue. The whole multiverse is kind of in disarray, so it doesn't entirely feel out of place.

I miss back when there was a sense that the humans were just small fish in a big pond, though.

>>87432225
Which character? It can't have been "decades" since Eternity's been around since 1965 and the modern Marvel universe was only around for four years before that.

>>87432225

I know that Lee and Kirby came up with Owen Reece, but was he as stupidly OP back when he first showed up in the F4 as he's depicted now in the Marvel universe?

How do you guys feel about the apparent absence of Celestials in recent Marvel? Like, the last one that showed up was Exitar, I believe. It's not like Marvel doesn't own their movie rights.

>>87432348
Yes.

>>87432348
He was nothing like this in the Lee/Kirby days. Guy was a two-bit villain who couldn't control organic molecules. Nothing even close to cosmic entities, which were more or less the same back in the '60s, but minus the hierarchy that got constructed in later decades.

>>87429166

I'm pretty for sure they're going to ignore all the cosmic aspect stuff of Marvels.

Don't want to confuse the normies.

>>87431978
lol

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>>87430082
Don't forget Infinity, or mistress love. Sure hate tend to switch back and forth.

>>87432470

Well knowing Marvel they're probably retooling them to all be lesbian Muslims that make funny jokes!

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Has cosmic Whoopie Goldberg ever shown up again?

>>87432525
IIRC under Kirby/Lee, Owens power came from a magic wand. Jim Shooter was the one who took Owen and turned him into an overpowered Godlike wimp, which IIRC was a metaphor for Shooter becoming EIC and a big shit his parents could bully

>>87432470
The Celestials always pissed me off. This super OP ancestor race and all they do is buttfuck younger races for shits and giggles? C'mon man. Give me an endgame.

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>>87429486
>now

>>87430007
>why are they all men...?
They are CONCEPTS, that means they take form in what people think they look like.

>>87432842

It's lazy writing really.

Someone needs to do what Morrison did for DC in Multiversity and put Marvel all together. How everything fits together, in some form of I'd say 'hierarchy" but it doesn't need to be that linear.

>>87432842
>t. Kree Supreme Intelligence

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>>87432766
She showed up in the Groot solo miniseries last year with a redesign

It's a metaphor for The Gods of the Marvel Cosmic Pantheon need to go about their business being badass unfathomable forces for about five years instead of jobbing for whichever mega-event is coming up next.

>>87431978
dumbass Molecule Man has been OP tier since the Lee & Kirby days. He just never reached his full potential until the secret wars mini series during the 80s.

>>87424784
>>87422834
Basically whoever chained Eternity is the next big bad, but like a fucking BIG bad. Ultimates 2 is going to focus on it I think. Anti-Man is now Galactus' new herold and is gathering the Ultimates to potentially face this threat. I think we'll learn the next piece in that book, or New Avengers.

>>87432796
Yea, he got his huge power-ups in Secret Wars 1 and 2.

>>87429098
You can actually see the eyes of whoever chained Eternity in this pic. Neat.

>>87429304
His new Herold looks fucking awesome though. Also, it's Anti-Man so he's extremely powerful.

>>87432959
They did that with Earth X..... and it was just bad.

Fer real tho just read Starlin Cosmic, Grunewald Cosmic, DnA Cosmic and now whatever Ewing is doing with Ultimates/New Avengers/ Contest of Champions. They all tie shit around and add to the basic narrative of things. Marvel doesn't really need a mutliversity to explain shit.

Also I think Celestials were always meant to be mysterious beings answering to a higher power. The whole point of them was that there are still things out there in the universe left unanswered to mere mortals.

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>>87422834
I'm still disappointed that Mor-i-dun of the Fifth Cosmos didn't get to play a bigger role

The last survivor of the universe before Galactus' should be cosmically significant

>>87432959
What I hate is how Marvel can't fucking decide on spatial boundries. Like there's space, then there's the negative zone, then the superflow, then the outside? But I feel like there are just new layers added all the time just so characters can go even "further" outside reality. Like, Eternity isn't even close to all of existence. How?

>>87431978
Yeah, it's really dumb that metaphysical concepts like Order, Chaos and Eternity are eclipsed in power by a fucking shit-head human being.

>>87430007
>men
they aren't even human...

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>>87422834
I hope it's his ex, angry that he never called

>>87434994
Isn't he still trapped in Billy's mind or something? I could see him breaking free.

>>87435160
>The DC Universe's Eternity chained Marvel's and made it her bitch
Seems plausible.

>>87435199
No Billy used his depression and self loathing to kick Moridun out as a weird squid thing that came out of Billy's mouth

I assume that AIM has him locked up somewhere

>>87435016
Yeah, and most of the newer additions are things basically stolen from DC comics. The whole 'super flow' was completely ripped off from DC. Starbrand, Nightmask, POD, and etc were all characters from their New Universal line which was supposed to be their answer to DC's Planetary, but New Universal failed hard and so they brought some of the elements from it into the main Marvel company.

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>>87425073

>>87429098
>>87434928
Does the eyes of Eternity's captor remind anyone of Blue Marvel's son? I could have sworn he was made of white energy/neutronium and had blue eyes.

>>87422834
Yes.

Ewing is getting his own event within the next 2 or 3 years.
All his books have been building up to the "war to come".

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>>87425734
>So is Eternity War going to be a reboot?
Just like Secret Wars is going to reboot the Marvel universe and will move all the X-Men to their own universe?
Or are you too new to remember that?

>>87430007
Chaos and Order are just giant floating heads.
Do giant floating heads existing as the manifestation of abstract concepts even count as having gender?

>>87425073
>or bendis
So this is all leading up to a Gwenpool themed event?

>>87435504
... and wouldn't assigning a female gender to either one be really sexist in one way or another?

>>87435387
It's the opposite. He's made of blue energy with white eyes. But I doubt he'd be powerful enough to chain eternity anyway.

>>87429297
Underrated post

>>87430007
did you just assume the gender of a whole group of Cosmic entities without knowing their prefered pronouns?!

Can you like, NOT?!

Watcher Nick Fury is starting to pop up again

>>87434994
He was barely an echo of his former self. More like a shadow remnant of what he once was bought to life. Thats why he went on to go possess Billy Later. He wasn't up in his A-game.

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>>87435016
Here's Marvel Multiverse structure we know as of today.

I do agree they should stop adding new shit but idk why you are complaining about superflow when its been a thing for like 20 years or so?

>>87436425
What book? And who knows yet?

>>87422834
Yeah, they're going to reveal that he isn't cis-gendered and is actually a fucking tranny or some shit.

Why does anybody even care anymore, at this point?

>>87435016
>>87436578
You guys should study the string theories, it'll melt your brain.
Marvel might have came up with their stuff first but the real thing is eerily similar and way more complex.

>>87436603
No way, Marvel's doing that story in a different book with different characters.

... THIS IS A TRUE THING.

>>87430007
Master Order and Lord Chaos could be anything, since they're floating freaking heads.
Eternity is a man because his other half, Infinity, the embodiment of Time, is female.
The Living Tribunal is a man because this version of him is an uplifted version of Adam Warlock, who is was designed as a male (his three successors to Beehive's attempts to make genetically perfect humans were both female, before you start with that).
Then there's the beings who weren't there, like Death and Mistress Love.

>>87436645
Sad thing is, you have to ask; is that really beneath the levels current marvel staff would stoop too?

Because I honestly don't know, nor care, anymore.

>>87436599
He's been in Silver Surfer and Unworthy Thor recently

>>87435524
a Hastings event would be really awesome

>>87431978
>man transcending his mortality and becoming something greater
other way around. its a 'what if God was one of us?' scenario

>>87426485

At least in Jim Starlin's pocket reality.

>>87428666

I don't know if I should be answering the Antichrist, but what the hell, Damien: The Beyonders decided to destroy the Multiverse, so they worked their way up the foodchain, killing Captain Britains, Celestials, cosmic abstracts, until the Living Tribunal manifested and they basically dogpiled him; attacking him in every universe simultaneously.

I should add that Hackman retconned the Living Trubunal as the embodiment of the Multiverse, like a higher-up version of Eternity.

>>87430007

So you perceive them as male? All of them? How interesting.

>>87434969
>Earth X bad
it had some out there ideas but the whole thing was grand
shame they didn't go with the original ending though. I think that would have been more impactful

>>87430109

"best".

Fuck you. This is pleb tier handling. Lazy writing.

Not to mention a complete rip-off of Gaiman handling Death's house.

>>87430149

Hmmm.

>Doctor Manhattan can probably intercept 99% of missiles launched by the Soviet Union
>He can't actually manipulate time
>In fact he is stymied by Tachyons

>Molecule Man can do absolutely anything

Seriously, what is the fucking hype about Manhattan? He is not that powerful.

>>87435356
he seemed pretty 'beyond' such a thing stopping him. the guy was borderline an abstract himself. I'm willing to bet money Ewing set him up as a major villain for later down the line so writers have something other than Thanos and Apocalypse to use

>>87432225

Molecule Man wasn't THAT powerful, originally. And he wasn't a Mary Sue, either. In fact he was more of a classic deconstruction of "what I would do if I had ultimate power".

>>87432348

Fuck no.
He had a WAND.

>>87432842

They're scientists. To them, lesser races are just cultures in petrie dishes. There's no moral angle for them. Do we feel bad about microbes?

>>87433716

He could be so amazing. Which, actually, he is, sometimes.

>>87437396
>what is the fucking hype about Manhattan?
people like to believe that because he's from a 'grittier' setting, that gives him a massive edge over anyone from a 'cornier' setting shy of the loony tunes

>>87437379
Well Ewing acknowledged it by referring the new tribunal as new to his job. Which gives Thanos segway into fucking up the cosmic balance of things since he won't notice.

Its literally shown here>>87429098
Its not Starlins pocket reality you pleb.

However the Thanos that finally fucked Death probably is a pocket reality version or something as Ewing referred him as some aspect of the mad titan who finally found happiness.

>>87434595

Ah, a QT3.14 cosmic entity.

>>87434879
>>87434953

>Anti-Man
>Not a feminist supervillain

>>87434994

Why? He could just be a cockroach. It's Dave Lister syndrome. Last survivor of a long-dead race... and it's this guy.

>>87437439
yeah, I think he described that Thanos as a sort of 'echo' left by Thanos in reality when he got booted outside of it

>>87436578

...Why aren't the Infinites = the Gardeners of White Space?

>>87436603
>Yeah, they're going to reveal that he isn't cis-gendered and is actually a fucking tranny or some shit.

They did that in 'Infinity War", ages ago.

>>87437388
>shame they didn't go with the original ending though

Oh? What was that?

>>87437410

Or he hooks up with Shuma-Gorath because he's kind of a pedo.

>>87430007
This is fucking bait you idiots

>>87437439
>Its not Starlins pocket reality you pleb.

To me, it is.

>>87437454

Sure, why not... it's what Darkseid would do.

>>87437491

We love bait.

>>87437488
>What was that?
Captain America kills Marvel in the final confrontation, convinced he's the big bad, before he has a chance to explain. As he's dying, Mar-Vell explains how his new system is the best for the multiverse, Cap realizes his mistake, and in penance for the sin of killing the 'God' of the new universal order Captain America takes his place as the eternal overseer of superhero valhalla.

>>87437521
Christ, I noticed. Jesus this couldve been a much better thread without all of that nonsense.
still a good thread though. Marvel's cosmic, though a bit... confusing is still very interesting to me.

>>87437548
Even if it was intended as bait, it is a good question.
Think about it: Why does the embodiment of Death prefer to manifest as female?
These things have been shown as formless in some comics, and Death has been shown as appearing in other disguises before. So why does she usually pick female?
Is it because Death is such an intimate thing?
Why are the others mostly male? Do they have reasons for that?

>>87437541

...I don't think that's a better ending, and also I thought you were talking about Earth-X rather than the entire trilogy.

>>87437548

Of course it's confusing, writers feel even less restraint in doing whatever they please than usual.

>>87437616

Well, who was the first person to depict Death as female?

Wait, wouldn't that almost have to be Jim Starlin again? In that case, Death is female simply because Thanos is a guy who wants to tap that.

So is ultimates any good?

>>87422834
The Gentry is invading the Marvel universe.

>>87437668
I think it was actually in the "Thanos wants to tap that" story.

>>87435463
Marvel really should have used the opportunity to reboot.

>>87437703
They JUST had a major... their FIRST company-wide reboot.
AND they basically kept everything as was.
I don't think they're going to throw everything away now.

Also: come up with more original bait next time.

>>87437678

Yes, it is any good.

>>87437683

Marvel =/= Multiverse-2?

>>87437703

I know, right?

Technically it is a reboot, since the universe was recreated. Completely. Everybody died and was re-made. How many original survivors are even running around in the present Marvel Universe, anyway? Black Panther, Star-Lord, Captain Marvel... Miles, but he's from the UU... Cyplops is dead... Reed is somewhere outside of the multiverse... I am prepared to accept Sue and the rest were saved by Doom rather than recreated outright, but they're outside too... oh, and Doom... the Maker, sort ot...

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>>87437683
I thought that was Marvel Zombies

>>87437439
>Which gives Thanos segway into fucking up the cosmic balance of things since he won't notice.
If anything, it's the reverse.

New LT is a Starlin Adam Warlock. The only one who can outsmart a Starlin Thanos... he's totally not letting Thanos-8 getting away with excessive shenanigans

>>87437678
Yes. Such a shame Ewing had to waste so many issues doing damage control for CWII.

#6 is still one of my favorite single issues of this year.

>>87438018
>>87437753
Guess i'll have to check it out then, is there any pre reading I have to do before it or can I just dive in blind?

>>87437742
>>87437753
>call it a reboot
>only significant change is miles being in the 616

>>87434969
>>87435016

>What I hate is how Marvel can't fucking decide on spatial boundries

Okay that's what I'm saying about DC and mutliversity. DC has the Bleed and the Source. We know these things, multiversity just gave as literal fucking map showing how they connect. That's what I'm meaning here.

Like someone needs to come up with some standard visual representation -- a map of sorts for Marvel so they're not just making up shit as they go along and it all gets confusing and jumbled up.

I'm making my own superhero/cape universe and I'm doing this myself. It's not that easy either. You really have to think "okay so where is the universe where the psionic guys hang out and where exactly is the spiritual after life where the ghost guys are from and how does this connect to the actual physical universe and Earth that's kind of physically different from our earth?"

It's a daunting thing but in my own writing I realized, fleshing it out to a point really makes the rest of the writing easier and more fluid for the audience. Once you establish the boundaries and borders of everything.

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>>87436603
Too Slow!

>>87436578
Where's the Captain Britain Corps?

>>87437469
First, that image is far from precise.

Second, they haven't been revealed being the same thing. Yet.

>>87437439
I thought the implication was that Starlin's Thanos was the native post-Secret Wars Thanos, and that Ultimates Thanos was the pre-Secret Wars one.

>>87437616
>. So why does she usually pick female?
Death doesn't chose. You chose.

Same with all the abstracts, really.


....now I want Thanos to see Oblivion as a qt3.14 grill.

>>87438280
Care to explain that?

>>87438040
Not really. Any "recommended reading" gets listed at the end of the issues, but you can easily read without it.

>>87438040
Reading Ewing's runs on Mighty Avengers would help

He's been writing Monica and Blue Marvel for a while

>>87438294
what part?
Abstracts don't have a "look" by themselves. They are, after all, Abstracts.

The way we\the characters see them is only a way the brain uses to give form to the formless.

It was started by Byrne narrating a vast number of alien races all seeing Galactus differently.

This applies to all Abstracts, Death included.


If Thanos is not a faggot, he's probably going to see Oblivion as female and not as male(as it's usually "seen" by "us")

>>87438329
That's really fucked up conceptual shit to put down in a comic read by kids.

>>87438355
what? It's nothing weird.

>>87434879
Yeah the story is mainly in ultimates2 for now, although if you remember the maker did tease the new wasp as being somehow involved, does she have a book coming out?

>>87438377
Yeah, she does. That was a reference to ANAD Avengers, though, where she was almost captured by WHISPER agents.

>>87437379
>I don't know if I should be answering the Antichrist, but what the hell, Damien:
Thanks for the answer, but why am I the antichrist?

Apart from the fact that I'm a spawn of evil, I mean.

>>87438086

It's a technical reboot.

And no, they didn't really work with it.

>>87438040

'Mighty Avengers' and 'Captain America and the Mighty Avengers'. Perhaps 'Legend of the Blue Marvel' and Gillen's 'Young Avengers' if you're not homophobic (but even if you're not, you will be once you finish).

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>>87438218

I made this. It is inferior to the one posted before, or at least less complex. I modeled it on DC's map, obviously.

>>87438595

Your post ended in 666.

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>>87438845

Slight addition.

>>87437832
best hypercrisis thread ever t b h

>>87437832
I had to stop at several points reading this to let everything sink in.

>>87438845
it's also wrong.

at the "center" o the scheme there should be the Multidimension Reality Cake.
Basically, the various realms\dimension(godly and hellish dimensions as well as all the other dimensional planes) form a "multi-strate cake" that make a Universe.
There are as many Universes as there are Quantum Possibilities, each Quantum Possibility making a new one. This form a Multiversal Cluster, or Megaverse.

Outside that there is the Superflux, then the Neutral Zone then the Outside

>>87439285

Could you make an illustration of that?

>>87429297
I hate that I got this.

>>87422834
To symbolize Marvel being a hostage to SJWs.

>>87438915
If Gods exist outside the natural multiverse, how come there are different versions of Thor running about, and not just the one?

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>>87439400
my MSPaint skillz are horrible, but this should explain what I did mean.

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>>87439499
...let me try again

>>87439490

...Very good question. So that's definitely an issue.

Perhaps the sphere of the gods exists for each universe separately. But then what of the Dark Dimension? Complicated...

>>87439499

I am sorry, but I still don't get it.

Nice trap they set there.
If you buy it, then you're settling for compromisation, you accept Thor settling for a lesser hammer while Whore keeps the real thing and being the MIGHTY Thor.
If you don't buy it, all the better for them, they'll say, 'See, didn't we tell ya? People like Whore better! Take that, manbabies!'
The solution to this, is easy. Buy nothing. Boycott Marvel, boycott everything they produce.

So what exactly is Molecule man's powers and what happened that made him able to go to the fullest extent of what he could do on paper

>>87439620
Ehh... wrong thread. Nevermind.

>>87439520
A Universe is composed by many Realms(also called Dimensions).
They form a "pile" of sort: Vanaheimr is a higher realm than Earth, while Helheimr is a lower realm.
The Dark Dimension is a cluster of Realms conquered by Dormammu and are all much higher than Earth Dimension.
The Olympus dimension might well be either higher or lower than the Earth Dimension.

Think of the Universe as an apartment building: each floor is a different Realm.
Gods just live in different floors than Humans.


/note: this part is valid only up to before Secret Wars. We don't know if it's still valid.

The Marvel Multiverse is a Quantum Multiverse.
This means every Quantum possibility generates a whole new Universe.

/end part with limited validity

The aggregation of the various Universes is called Multiverse.

Around\between the various Universes, there is the Superflux

Outside the Superflux there is the Neutral Zone

Outside the Neutral Zone there is the Outside.

>>87439517

WTF are the 'superflux' and the 'neutral zone'?

>>87439750
Superflux should be superflow.
The Neutral Zone is just a realm of combined matter and antimatter.

>>87439750
Superflow(I called it Superflux by error: sorry)=Bleed, basically. Ellis recycled his own idea. The red sea between the Universes.

Neutral Zone=concept made up by Ewing for Mighty Avengers. The Wild Space Beyond, the last piece of Reality just before the Outside

>>87439770
thanks for the Superflow correction.

for the Neutral Zone, it started like that but Ewing later did change it into the Wild Space Beyond

>>87439799
I think Ewing was just expanding on what Grievioux established in Blue Marvel's original mini

>>87439817
I don't think there was the Neutral Zone in the original mini, but I might be quite wrong.

Still, right now it has been expanded\explained as the Wild Space

>>87439621

Molecule Man can manipulate energy and matter to whatever degree you can imagine.

When he first appeared he could just alter molecules (well, and energy, since he could freeze stuff), but his power just gradually increased.

In the original Secret Wars, Doctor Doom - who was really feeling it after absorbing Galactus' reserve power - gave him a pep talk, opening his mind to his potential. After that, he was much more powerful than before.

Doom later "discovered" that the Beyonders deliberately planted a Molecule Man in every universe to blow all of them up at once. Doom started to harvest them and turned a bunch of Molecule Men into a bomb to destroy the Beyonders. He then took their power and stored it in the 'original' Molecule Man, who is now the most powerful being in existence, it seems.

>>87439853
>who was really feeling it after absorbing Galactus' reserve power
he actually was in possession of the power of the Beyonder. With that, Doom did show Owen how Reality did work, lifting the psychological block that stopped him from manipulating organic matter.
After that, the Molecula Man was able to manipulate reality at will.

After Secret Wars he got another power-up of sort, and is now Narrative Man but he likes the alliteration so he sticks to Molecula Man. He can do even more than before, Even Galactus Is Afraid, so nobody calls him on it.

>>87440118
>After Secret Wars he got another power-up of sort, and is now Narrative Man but he likes the alliteration so he sticks to Molecula Man. He can do even more than before, Even Galactus Is Afraid, so nobody calls him on it.

I lost track of Secret Wars at the end, what can Owen do now?

>>87440279
Everything. Even more than before.

>>87440297
So he's even more top dog now, like here? >>87430211

But he's still bound by things like mortality and the human brain's comprehension capacity no? 'Cause otherwise it's stupid to even consider him a man, if he's a de facto god. I know Galactus made him a herald in the latest ultimates, but that's... a bit ridiculous, no? Owen outweights him considerably and apparently isn't bound to a purpose like big G is. So what's his end game?

>>87439799
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Bleed a Wildstorm invention? I keep seeing it in reference to the main DCU and I have to admit I'm not that familiar with the DC universe.

Did they fold the Bleed concept into the main DC universe with New52?

>>87440410
Galactus made ANTI-MAN his Herald.

And Owen is, in fact, now de facto vice-God.
his end game is.... there isn't any end game. or, if there is, it's outside the human ability to understand.

>>87440594
Bleed was a concept Warren Ellis made for Wildstorm. It was later absorbed in the DC Universe.

Ellis later made a similar concept for Marvel's newUniversal line and Hickman did expand on it.

>>87425734
>>87435463
Marvel needs a reboot. Id rather have a reboot and new Avengers stories with the classic lineup than Diversivengers fumbling around and the editors claiming you are a bigot if you dont like it. IT is the only solution to the current clusterfuck of stories, and the refusal to follow continuity.

>>87439631
kuk

>>87439799
>The Wild Space Beyond, the last piece of Reality just before the Outside

So, the Wild Space would be the White Nothing where Thor, Hyperion and Hickman OCs were jumping and met Black Priest Strange(he was best part of SW to be honest)?

>>87441349
Yes.

>>87441366
Ok, that makes sense.

On another matter I still don't think Beyonders really killed the Abstracts, just their manifestation - I mean where was Phoenix if existence (actuality) itself was in danger? And we know it's a power that easily rivals LT.

>>87440410
>So what's his end game?
Chill with his stuff in his little pocket dimension, give friendly advice to cosmic entities who need it, and potentially end all existence with a thought. If he wanted to, anyway.

>>87441403
Wasn't the Phoenix incubating or something? That Hickman stuff was retarded.
Didn't the end of AvX have Wanda sorta banishing the Phoenix from reality?

>>87441487
I'd like Ewing to show Owen chilling with Sentry one time. They were close to becoming friends after all if it wasn't for that faggot Osborn.

>>87441572
I think she banished it from our universe, "it" as the big Fire-Bird. I don't think Jean as in White-Crown-I-keep-realities-stored-in-jars-back-there-Jean noticed.

>>87441674
White Crown Jean OP, Marvel pls nerf.

From what I understand of the Phoenix, is that it's equally potent in all realities.

>>87440118
>he actually was in possession of the power of the Beyonder.

I used to think so, too! In fact, however, he had his talk with Owen BEFORE he went to confront the Beyonder. That's why there were no supervillains on Battleworld anymore during the finale: Molecule Man had taken them and Marsha Rosenberg's home with him back to Earth.

At the time Doom talked to the Molecule Man, he was already very powerful, but because he had absorbed the energy of Galactus's world ship, which the latter had changed into raw energy to prepare himself for his own battle with the Beyonder. Doom had cut Klaw's body into lenses to build the apparatus to steal Galactus' power; he correctly theorized that the time Klaw had spent bouncing around in the world ship as a soundwave had created in him a resonance with it.

>>87441572
>That Hickman stuff was retarded.

Really, that's all that needed to be said.

>>87441715

Isn't it about time we get to meet the Raven, the dark counterpart of the Phoenix?

>>87441890
>Isn't it about time we get to meet the Raven, the dark counterpart of the Phoenix?
that's the Goblin Force, actually.

Also, the whole White Crown and never made any sense... unless the White Hot Room is the\in the Wild Space

>>87441648
>Owen gets a little lonely
>Casually recreates Sentry with 3x the power he had before

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>>87441992
I don't think Bob with all his juice and Celestial boost on top of that have really been caught up in the collapse. He probably didn't notice, or hyperspace and other higher dimensions were left intact with denizens watching and waiting - like Phoenix and Celestials as pure energy. Also - this' by no means a powerlevel faggotry - I like Sentry as that one complete total anomaly, nobody fucking knows what he is, where it all came from, it just is. Remender had the right idea with that insane cosmic awareness, but well, we can't have nice things anymore so no Remender's Sentry mini.

>>87442135
Sentry being Cosmically Mad like Genis would make a lot of sense.

>>87442135
>tfw no DeathBob vs. the heirs of Apocalypse to get enough power to repel the Celestials.

Feels bad.

>>87442227
>I am the Sentry of Mankind
>I am Apocalypse

who needs unity squad when you just have Bob

>>87432470
Didn't one show up, after a Ulysses vision?

>>87442246
Seriously, thinking about ApocBob is scary.

The two biggest mutant heavy hitters that could've stood a chance are a moralfag kid, and a nerfed-beyond-use AoA reject.

Also, Rick does like Nate so I can totally have seen him using him in the end of his Apoc trilogy.

>>87442299

No, I thought so too, but apparently that was some kind of conceptual being - like the Abstract of Villainy, or something.

>>87425073
>Deepest lore

>>87442343
You forgot that Bob and Nate are best buddies.
>tfw no Sentry/Xman crazy dimensional adventures

>>87435160
Morrison did say DC universe was a woman...

So he did proceed to fuck her good


So I've heard

>>87429098
Who's the dead one?

>>87442388
That's the epilogue limited series. Fund it.

Are Bob and Nate the two most powerful "humans" in the Marvel U?
Assuming Molecule Man isn't really quite a mortal.

>>87442547

The Shaper of Worlds. He was a nice guy. He survived the destruction of the multiverse and tried to use his power to create a new one, but he died in the attempt.

>>87442592
Well it's hard to tell what's up with Anti-Man and Franklin, but yeah that's the absolute top tier, with Sentry being the most dangerous/diverse in power because of the Void fuckery - after Bendis it became some kind of metaphysical force and Remender kept it that way.

>>87439853
Holy fuck based Shooter

>>87442626
Oh that sentient cosmic cube? Bummer

>>87442642
Oh, yeah, I always forget about Franklin.

Sentry is pretty crazy cause Bob doesn't even have the Void anymore. Isn't there still a sliver of it inside Scott's Black Box? I always head-canon that as something that helped push PhoenixClops along to torch Xavier.

Hopefully someday a writer will follow up on these threads.

>>87442368
Huh

thanks anon, I should be paying more attention

>>87441572
>That Hickman stuff was retarded.
no, fuck you. The retarded part was not giving it any follow to it, because BENDIS was too busy being butthurt the Hickman stuff was more interesting than his bullshit stories.

>>87437753
>Star-Lord

You know what irks me about this? Before Bendis felt the need to redo his origin I'm pretty sure Quill wasn't even 616-native.

That would mean he's survived two different universes now.

>>87443142
No, it was retarded. There was no build to it, even in the Hickman stuff. It literally just happened because Hickman wanted it to. I really like Hickman's work, but that was terrible writing.

>>87443142

It WAS retarded nerdy fanfic-level shit.

>>87443210

He was from a future and it did not look like 616, so yes.

>>87432896
>even Living Tribunal is backing the fuck up
I don't even know who molecule man is.

>>87443247
I hate that nobody gives enough of a shit about the Star-Lord mythos to do some really cool cosmic stories with him. Instead it's all MCUfags and DNAfags.

>>87438263
That's the impression I got from that issue too.

>>87443288
it was later suggested the Abstracts were feigning so to help the evolution of Beyonder and Molecula Man

>>87443549
if you add up the fact the events of Infinity Relativity start BEFORE Secret Wars, if anything it's the reverse, or, at least, both Thanos are true, split by either Tribunal Warlock or One Above All.

How are the new starlin books. I can't find them online anywhere. Worth picking up?

>>87442975
Void seems to be somehow connected to PF (the White Hot Room's "side-lands" being its resting place), I could dig the part-of-the-Goblin-force (or whatever, I'm not that versed in X-lore) explanation that leads hosts to becoming Dark Phoenixes.

>>87443747
I think they are worthy.

>>87443920
If they explicitly linked the Void and Phoenix Force, that'd be really fucking cool.

I know the Celestial Death/Life energies are closely entwined with the Phoenix, if they linked the Void in somehow we could have an incredible trifecta.

>>87443747
Do you like Starlin comics? Because it's just more of that. If you read through Gauntlet/War/Crusade/Abyss/The End and found yourself going "man, I sure could go for 3-4 more chapters of this" then it'll be right up your alley.

>>87443934
>>87444008
Yeah honestly I couldn't get enough of it. Even crusade despite being 300 pages of nothing. I'll check it out.

>>87444007
That would be extremely cool, but in the current Marvel paradigm, I wouldn't hope for a) Bob coming back at all b) expanding the cosmic lore (gotta keep things simple for movie synergy)
>inb4 muh Ewing
his stories are self-contained, main books and events will probably remain free of Abstracts/Celestials/cosmic forces appearing

>>87444257
>his stories are self-contained, main books and events will probably remain free of Abstracts/Celestials/cosmic forces appearing
Yes. He doesn't have a book specifically starring Galactus and his Herald investigating whoever chained Eternity.

>>87444295
By "main" I meant the leading titles that are shaping the narrative line of Marvel dude. Ultimates isn't one of them.

>>87444257
MCU Spoilers: Strange gets pretty crazy with its depiction of Dormammu, and the Living Tribunal is mentioned as well. Not to mention GOTG's Eson and hints at the Abstracts and their relation to the stones.

Might add up to a whole lot of nothing but I thought it worth mentioning

>>87444354
The three major shaping narrative lines going through Marvel right now are Ewing's book wtih the lead-up to Eternity War, Spencer's books with the lead-up to Hydra War, Waid's Avengers/Champions stuff, and the X-men/Inhumans stuff. IvX is getting resolved soon, then up next will be Hydra War. After that I expect Ewing to get to take center stage... hopefully.

Then there's Bendis who just leaches off what other people are doing like he's about to do with HydraCap over in Jessica Jones.

Ewing's books may not be center stage, but I'd say they're definitely a major narrative through line going through the Marvel Universe right now in the same way that the Marvel NOW-era had Remender's stuff and Hickman's stuff both running concurrently.

>>87444585
>the Living Tribunal is mentioned as well

...

I really fucking wasn't expecting that.

>>87444603
point taken, I don't have such a wide sight as I'm not really able to suffer through most of the current ongoings.

I certainly hope we'll come back to at least Annihilation-era cosmic characters gallery.

>>87444603
>Then there's Bendis who just leaches off what other people are doing
I can't wait for him to fuck over Ewing

>>87444899
Civil War II was already a mass fuck you to Ewing by having Ultimates get completely derailed into Bendis clean-up duty.

Are Mememder and Hickmeme the only two authors not to get screwed by Benis?

>>87422834
Re-reading the Ultimates right now but a very stupid question.
What is the difference between Omniverse and Multiverse? Also isn't Reeds the "owner" of Eternity?

>>87444847
Well, Rich is back (and is presumably going to be rebuilding the Nova Corps with Sam's help), Spencer is setting up the new Quasar, Humphries isn't around to ruin Star-Lord anymore, and Bendis is in the homestretch of his run with only two arcs left: Guardians of Earth and Annihilation II.

Cosmic should hopefully be back to top form this time next year since Bendis should be gone by then. Just in time for him to move onto writing/ruining the Fantastic Four relaunch.

>>87444962
It was a mass fuck-you to everyone.

They straight up admitted it was planned on very short notice, which means no one had time to properly get ready for a book-interrupting event.

On top of that they had Bendis at the helm, who ignores characterisation/continuity/logic.

Really anyone who got dragged into CWII and didn't get fucked over is either incredibly lucky or a damage-control wizard.

>>87445003
Slott did okay; I cannot confirm if it's true or not, but a popular rumor is that Bendis wanted to have Peter Parker die in CWII and Slott had to intervene.

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>>87445031
>What is the difference between Omniverse and Multiverse?
Multiverse is the collection of universes. The Omniverse is everything within the Marvel sphere, like, Earths 1 through 999999999 or what have you are the multiverse, while the omniverse is those universes, the negative zone, the neutral zone, the realm of the abstracts, and everything else.

For an easier/more visual point of comparison, pic related is the map of the DC multiverse. Using the Marvel nomenclature for it, the Multiverse would be Earths 1-52, the bubbles in the middle, while the Omniverse is everything within the Source Wall.

>Also isn't Reeds the "owner" of Eternity?
Nah, he recreated Eternity along with everything else, but Reed is just rebuilding the multiverse. He has no actual say in the cosmic hierarchy or how things are ran. He may be God, but he's more of the "build it and let them sort it out" kind of God. Also the One Above All still outranks him since Reed was powerful enough to recreate the Living Tribunal, hence TOAA having to turn Adam Warlock into the All-new All-different Living Tribunal.

>>87445141
>Also the One Above All still outranks him since Reed was powerful enough to recreate the Living Tribunal, hence TOAA having to turn Adam Warlock into the All-new All-different Living Tribunal.
Reed wasn't* ?

>>87445064
Not a rumor. More a joke that was taken way too seriously. There was a journalist ingrained at the Marvel Creative Summit for the planning of CWII. While there, they had decided that "a major character had to die so people knew things were serious." Jokingly, Bendis kept referring to the character that had to die as "Peter Parker" (like a, "so then this major character dies, let's call him 'Peter Parker' for now.")

When the interviewer/journalist asked Slott his opinion on Bendis referring to the doomed character as Peter Parker, he replied with something along the lines of "You think I'm scared? You think this is my first rodeo? By the end of the day, the character won't be Peter. I'll make sure of that."

And so we got War Machine and Bruce Banner as the sacrificial lambs.

>>87445236
Thanks anon, that's good to know. It's interesting hearing the truth/source of the rumours that fly around this place

>>87445203
>>87445141
Yes, thanks. Meant wasn't* powerful enough.

Which makes sense, it took all of the Beyonders working together to kill the Living Tribunal, and it's easier to destroy something than to create it.

>>87437753
I think it's just T'Challa, the Maker, Miles and Doom.

Miles may have had his memories wiped, though. His appearance in Gwenpool implies that he doesn't remember the Ultimate Universe, but I don't know if it's been said one way or the other in his own series.

>>87443920
>explanation that leads hosts to becoming Dark Phoenixes.
People only go Dark Phoenix when you fuck with them enough. Jean only went Dark Phoenix because Mastermind and Emma were mindfucking her. Rachel never went Dark Phoenix and only lost the Phoenix Force like 5 years ago. P.E.N.I.S. only wen Dark Phoenix because the Avengers kept poking them with a stick.

>>87438952
I was the first one who posted on it, about Krypton and the multiverse. So glad how it turned out.

>>87445141
I always kind of hated how trigger-happy Marvel is with the Omniverse word. Like, if there's a Captain Britain in every world in the Omniverse, does that mean that there's a DCU Captain Britain? That there's one in the goddamn Harry Potter and Sonic the Hedgehog and Mario universes?
Was the entirety of fiction destroyed and recreated after Secret Wars, but only the Marvel-related characters are aware of it?
Basically, fuck Alan Moore.

>>87445236
I don't think he even implied that he'd have to intervene. He just said "well, of course they're not fucking killing off Peter, no matter what Bendis wants".

>>87446450
Yeah, I was the Bobfag there. Amazing shit, unlike most others.

>>87422834
They had to fuck Ultimates with Civil War II didn't they?
Four fucking issues as tie-ins jesus fuck, so many shit that could be happening but no... fucking tie-ins.

Hope Ultimates^2 does not have this shit.

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>>87446368
I think Illyana cracking might've been more on her, herself.
She was already kinda unstable.

Namor flooded Wookiekanda partially at Emma's goading during a psychic boning, too.

Scott was really the one that did the best at restraining himself. Hell, you could even say that him stealing the bits of the hosts was him following a sort of noblese oblige.

Like you said though, he only cracked under durres brought on externally. Hell, even then he still pushed Dark Phoenix down and helped Hope get control (as he planned all along).

Still though, Rachel, of all the Phoenix Force hosts, easily had the most shit leveled against her, and she never cracked.
Similar things could be said for AoA Jean.

Here's a few observations and thoughts I have on the Phoenix:
When Celestial energy is prevalent it sorta stabilizes the Phoenix. Maybe because the Celestials and Phoenix share similar agendas. That also puts them at competing purposes. Think about it, when the Phoenix comes up against an 'Apocalypse', someone usually wins definitively.
If you have Summers blood, you're already at an advantage to controlling that shit. Add some Grey blood in, and you're unstoppable.
The Phoenix and "Apocalypse" are on roughly equivalent footing power-wise.
Sinister should actually be trusted with all these matters. I mean, he made Nate Grey, who allegedly was on par with the Dark Phoenix in terms of output, albeit not sustainable.

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>>87447479
>The Phoenix and "Apocalypse" are on roughly equivalent footing power-wise

yup, it's explicitly stated but feat-wise? Not so much in my opinion the best ones come from Sentry anyways , I can't imagine Black Bolt dispersing Phoenixclops like he did En Sabah Nur for example.

>>87447713
>Feat wise
There was that one time that Archangel as "Apocalypse" told the Phoenix to fuck off.

>Lapham AoA
Hey somebody else read that.
Where the hell is Prophet these days?
That ending was kinda weird, but dayum ApocJean was awesome.
>DeathBob needed help to stop Exitar
>ApocJean held off an endless tide of Celestial killers
I'd say that's an incredible feat right there--and she didn't even have powers.

>>87444603
What about the whole "magic is falling apart" theme running through Dr. Strange and Scarlet Witch?

>>87445141
>while the omniverse is those universes, the negative zone, the neutral zone, the realm of the abstracts,

Doesn't every individual universe have their own negative zone, neutral zone, etc?

>>87449660
There's only one Neutral Zone. It's basically the omniverse's membrane. Likewise, there's supposed to only be one negative zone but the fact that there's a bunch of alt-universe stories with their own unique Annihiluses complicates that.

Comfy thread lads.

I feel like good discussion threads like this are so few and far between these days on /co/.

>>87449796
Yeah, exactly, I know there's an Ultimate Annihilus.

And if there's only one, it'd be packed, as mad scientists from a million different universes all visited it.

>>87449942
>comfyfag

You need to stay

>>87449980
Yeah. There's an Ultimate Annihilus and the Negative Zone in the Ultimate Universe is called the N-Zone and works differently than the 616 Negative Zone.

AND YET, when 616 Galactus got shunted off to the Ultimate Universe, The Maker defeated him by sending him to the N-Zone. But then, the 616 Eternals pulls Galactus back into 616 via a Negative Zone portal.

Meaning Galactus got sent into the Ultimate Negative Zone and ended up in the 616 Negative Zone. This would imply that they are actually part of the same whole in some way. You can theorize all you want about how that works but there's apparently only one negative zone despite all the weird contradictions that presents.

>>87446546
Yeah, I'm actually not big on Ewing bringing back the Omniverse term outside of just the Captain Britain Corps using it, but he's a Marvel UK boy so that's no surprise.

>>87450622
Thanks, you're a very nice and welcoming anon.

>>87451189
What's up with the CBC anyways?

>>87451410
They haven't appeared since Secret Wars so their current status is up in the air. Spider-UK was a member of the Captain Britain Corps, but I didn't read Web Warriors so I'm not sure if it ever got brought up there.

All-new Inhumans had Luna going to the Braddock Academy (until she dropped out), so Brian is probably fine at least.

>>87445041
Don't even joke about that last part.
I was so happy that they (with the exception of Johnny and Ben) were let go with dignity.
I don't wanna see the FF get Benis'd.

last minute bump

>>87451972
I don't even think he is joking.

They flat out said that any book they make gets offered to Bendis first. Bendis has said that he wants to have written every Marvel cape.

Just one more for the bucket list.

>>87429486
that awful art

>>87450926
Not neccesarily.

If you sent Galatucus into the middle of nowhere - let's say, Ultimate Universe's Omaha Nebraska - logically, anyone who wanted to bring him back would best do it by bringing him through 616's Omaha.

Same with the negative zone.