Laura as Wolverine is weird

she's cute like that

Well, she's just honoring her legendary, older clone.

>>87398383
I can't get behind any of them, it is all shit and forced

>>87398383
>Whor
>Miles
They're not great either

>>87398383
>Miles is cool
NOPE.

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>>87398383
I always hearken back to her early days when at different time Daken AND Parker Spider-man made jokes at her about "Lady-Wolverine" and she was offend and spouted how she was and always WOULD BE her own person, smash cut to years later and THIS shit.

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It's the outfit. Jane has a unique beautiful design. You can identify her if she was a sillohutte. She wears something a goddess would wear.

They put no thought into Laura's design. It's literally female Wolverine.

>>87398383
She did it for her boyfriend

>>87398383
Miles a shit, Whor is a god-awful PR stunt and anyone but Steve being Cap is retarded.

>>87398584
>>87398609
Back to /tv/ with you

>>87398748
Not them, but without his powers, Miles isn't very interesting. The onlything he had going for him, taking Peter's place after he died, was taken away when he dropped into 616.

Hell, he has trouble standing out as a character in any team book he's in.

>>87398722
But why is it retarded?

I won't fight you on the others but why is the idea of anyone other than Cap retarded? The idea is fine. It's all in the execution.

For instance, Remender's Captain Falcon was much better than Spencer's even though I think both are fine.

>>87398748
Bendis pls go

>>87398951
He's black.

>>87398383
But Whor is shit.

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>>87398722
>Not liking Superior BuckyCap

Get out of here /tv/

>>87398657
>It's literally female Wolverine.
Well she IS a clone afterall...

>>87398383
So, what kind of reason do they have for her replacing Logan anyway?
Is there even a reason, or did they just feel like having a girl wolverine now?

>>87399213
See
>>87398721

>>87398383
>Whor is fine because there always needs a Norse God of Thunder

No. Whor and that entire situation of Thor losing not only his hammer but his entire namesake is bullshit. After 2 years we still don't know why this is all happening. And dear god, all the "evil PATRIARCHY!!" and Roxxon -aka who gives a shit - storylines absolutely suck.

>>87399307
>>87398721
Is that still "no-hands" Hellion?

If not, FUCK MARVEL

>>87398806
the only good thing waid has done in anada and champions is the webs/rocket bromance

>>87399307
Okay, then why did she do it for her boyfriend?
Like, whats the context

>>87398383
I find it weird, too.
I feel a large part of her character was her finding herself and going away from being a clone of Logan and being a pre-programmed death machine.
Oh, but she's Wolverine now

>>87399356
Naw, it's time-displaced Angel

>>87399361
She did it because she thought it was what he wanted her to do. So much that she put herself in increasingly dangerous situations to live up to Logan.

>>87398383
You are correct on all counts.
In the sense of them making sense in-universe, I mean. Though I'd say that Miles makes no sense now he's in 616.
Miles and Jane are both written terribly, though, and I want Jane gone and Miles given to a decent writer.
I like SamCap, though. Yeah, I'm a faggot, whatever.

>>87399415
So, wait, is Logan dead now somehow then?

>>87399439
Yeah. Sealed in adamantium.
So you've now got both Laura and OML running around as Wolverine.
Laura's easily the worst of the DiversiLegacies because her being Wolverine shits on everything she was before.

>>87398534
>her...clone

wew

>>87399033
>>Not liking Superior BuckyCap
Was gonna post this.

How can other Caps even compete?

>>87399439
Almost 3 years.

>>87398383
Who better to be Wolverine than Logan's actual clone??

>>87399573
>Who better to be Wolverine?
This is the problem. We don't need one.
I guess, after reading her arc over the past decade, it seems sorta like they're kneecapping her.
Wolverine has decades of bloodstained history associated with the name. Logan didn't really want that for her--yes, yes I know x-Force happened. I guess what I'm saying is that she had a robust identity of her own and assuming the Wolverine title sorta shits on that.

But to answer your full question, yeah, she works I guess.

Honestly I'd have liked to see a book with Daken as "Wolverine", but with her as the lead as they butted heads and occasionally teamed up. Basically she'd be there to keep him on the straight and narrow.

>>87398383
>Liking Miles
>Liking Cho
>Not liking based Laura who is literally only one legacy character here.
Pathetic.

>>87398383

she actually looks great in that costume thanks to the artists for keeping her slim and athletic.

When did she put on that costume?

O5 Angel, who's currently fucking Laura, felt that she was too weird and violent.

So Laura in a desperate attempt to keep him fucking her pussy on a steady basis decided to start talking like a normal teenager girl and became the new Wolverine because Logan was a hero and that would probably make her boyfriend happy seeing her all normal and a hero to boot.

She's basically doing anything, ANYTHING, to keep her boyfriend pleased and liking her.

>>87398522

dubs of truth

>>87398383
I wonder if Laura is distracted from tracking a scent by her own menstruation.

>something something
>...bub

>>87398383
>Miles is cool
How the fuck do you expect to be taken seriously?

>>87399894

That's not what her ongoing looks like.

>>87398383
Laura has been shit since Bendis got his hands on her. Taylor's not doing any favors.

>>87398383
>whor is fine.
Stopped right there. OP is a dumb faggot.

>>87400649

>start talking like a normal teenager girl

That was an asspull, since she's been like this since Bendis took over x-men.

>>87402129
Laura has been shit since she was first shat into existence on that trash teen girl version of x-men.

>>87398383
>a random unrelated person from an alternate universe being Spider-Man #2 is good
>a former Thor love interest becoming an Asgardian god is good
>a smart guy becoming a Hulk because he wants to is good

>Wolverine's daughter taking up his mantle after his death is weird and strange and doesn't make sense to me

Also,

>I don't even know why she's doing this

This is because you don't actually read comic books, because she has talked about it multiple times, in a number of books

>>87398383
>I don't even know why she's doing this
>>87399439
>So, wait, is Logan dead now somehow then?

/co/ in a nutshell

>>87398383
I have no problem with Laura taking up Logan's mantle after his death and have been enjoying the AN Wolverine comic thus far.

The thing is that Laura's writers tried really hard to make her more than just "girl Wolverine." Her entire character arc from day one was finding her own path and becoming her own person despite her origins and connections to Logan. Making her what she was intended not to be feels like all those years were pointless.

Though this is a cape comic we're talking about. Everything is pointless.

>Hey teenage girls! We have a superhero just for you! Join this cloned assassin ex-prostitute with multiple mental disorders on her wacky adventures with mini me, grumpy grandpa and the unreadable squirrel girl!

Eh, I'll be over here when marvel decides to make a real x-23 book.

>>87400649
I think the writer for Wolverine broke them up. Apparently it got ignored by that All New shit.

>>87398383
>>87398383
I've been out of the Miles loop for a while

Where's he getting his webfluid now that Ganke doesn't have Pete's formula to make it?
Does Spidey send him a web-fluid care-package every month?
Since Miles has no memories of his old universe, what pushed him to be a hero? Why did he swipe Pete's identity when Peter was around?
Without Pete's supporting cast, who pushed him to keep being a hero when he wanted to quit?
Where do his powers come from now? Or was Osborn making Oz-formula spiders for no discernible reason?
How many of his stories still work? Even vaguely. Pete's villains are wildly different in the main universe
Was Bendis too scared to write about an actual poor black school and that's why Miles won the school-scholarship lottery?

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>It's a ''hey guys what if male superhero was female'' episode

>>87403211
Except it doesn't make anything pointless. If you actually read her comic, she's not transformed into Girl-Logan. She is still her own distinct person, and not like him.

She's still Laura. She merely wears his colors and uses his title as a symbol.

>>87403740
ANW has, quite correctly, almost completely ignored anything to do with Angel beyond the occasional reference to him still existing.

>>87403772
>We don't know.
>We don't know
>Bendis confirmed that Miles does have his memories of Ultimate, but he didn't want to spend time addressing it because he thought a Captain America-style man-out-of-time story would be boring and derivative...as he wrote up the script for Civil War II
>See last answer
>He kept his powers from the Ultimate Universe
>They still happened
>Bendis is insecure about writing black heroes as anything but incorruptable paragons who have little to no flaws. Which is why Riri and Miles have the personalities of cardboard, and Luke Cage is black Captain America

>>87403772
>Was Bendis too scared to write about an actual poor black school and that's why Miles won the school-scholarship lottery?

He's basically writing about his own kids. You know they don't go to the poor black school.

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>>87404184
>>Bendis confirmed that Miles does have his memories of Ultimate, but he didn't want to spend time addressing it because he thought a Captain America-style man-out-of-time story would be boring and derivative...as he wrote up the script for Civil War II

Bendis says a lot of shit
Comics say Miles doesn't remember

Question is when is Logan coming back?

>>87404373
You act like Bendis hasn't blatantly ignored established canon before.

>>87404421
When Marvel stops thinking their comics act as adverts for Fox's movies

>>87404421

Hopefully never, since he's more than adequately replaced and offers literally nothing the combination of Laura and OML provide

>>87404514
Hopefully autistic clone Laura will die a horrible death soon. And the REAL Wolverine will come back, and punish the imposters.

>>87404558
Gaby will die?
Yes finally

>>87398619

meh, kids are rebellious, not wanting to be anything like their parents. then they get older and hope for nothing other than to be exactly like their parents.

>>87404477
I don't know if you've noticed but the opposite is true. Marvel and Fox have kept their Wolverine stuff relatively coordinated, it's not like the Fantastic Four black holing.

>>87404600
All the X clones will die.

>>87399765
Taken already was Wolverine, and then he died.

Now it's her turn.

>>87402104
You're right, it looks even better.

>>87398383
See >>87402478 and >>87402546

My only problem is that Wolverine isn't really a mantle worth carrying on (in-universe, at least).

Who wants to preserve the legacy of a savage manlet? I never felt like anyone except certain X-Men had any respect for him, and heroes that avoided killing had disdain for him.

Though I suppose Laura of all people might have some respect for him.

>>87405029
>Now it's her turn.

Yeah... But it's actually not.
She's got the book as a placeholder, the replacement in place to keep Wolverine stories going until there's enough changes to make the original Wolverine's return from the dead seem all that much more bizarre.
Honestly, Logan has "died" before, and then when he's revealed to be alive he just stepped back into his place among the X-Men and it was as if nothing had ever changed.
This time they're doing something different to give it more pop.
This time, since he's been adamantiumed, the X-Men and the Avengers have disbanded and reformed and into multiple camps, wars have been fought, characters have died, villains have reformed, the atmosphere has become his new archnemesis, his old archnemesis has become background atmosphere, his oldest and most trusted superhero ally has become a goose-stepping Hydra goon, it's an even more awkward situation for another ally...

Wolverine's going to think that he woke up in another parallel reality again.
And when that story starts, it'll be time for Laura to step down and make way, because that was always the plan for her.

>>87405121
It doesn't get much more "legacy to live up to" than to be the guy's clone.

>>87405121

Wolverine was an Avenger and one of the top leaders of the X-Men, having quite literally taken over Professor X's role as founder and guy who ran the JGS.

Logan as a smelly savage manlet who didn't know his past was an aspect of his character he'd moved beyond.

>>87405465
But her book isn't telling "Wolverine stories". It's been telling Laura stories.

Like, absolutely nothing in that book is Laura doing stuff in Logan's place or picking up his threads. It's been about her issues, been about characters related to her alone, and her (admittedly short list of) adversaries.

>>87398951

The idea was born to promote something during WW2 and while blacks did fight, they were a tiny minority. The concept and purpose have broken along the way that the character if not for time hijinks shouldn't exist anymore, especially being a legacy honestly.

I think most people dislike falcap because of leftist shit and whedon shit and other things that turned his natural evolution into their agenda vehicle, same with all the other ideas they've done lately.

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>>87405643

>>87399765
>Honestly I'd have liked to see a book with Daken as "Wolverine", but with her as the lead as they butted heads and occasionally teamed up. Basically she'd be there to keep him on the straight and narrow.
I'm the anon you replied to and I agree with everything you said but I guess I'm just saying if you wanna give Wolverine a legacy, X-23 is just fine for it.
Also your Daken/Laura idea sounds fun.

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>>87405522
This.
He not only moved past that, but they had multiple stories about him moving past that just to drive it home for the casuals.
It was a whole thing that kept coming back up over and over again for years.

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>>87398383

>>87405617
Take your racist alternate history lesson back to /pol/.
Your sick little headcanon is not reality, and having to point this out on /co/ is redundant.

>>87404224
As a non-poor black I welcome this depiction.

Sick of hood shit.

>>87405788

That isn't headcanon, that is origin of his character, explain what is racist about pointing out history. In terms of pure numbers, blacks fighting for the U.S were a numerical minority by far.

The creation of the character as a propaganda tool is central to his origin and is so far removed from when it was created that it no longer serves the same purpose, to point of it being hijacked by people that would have hated his initial inception and been devoid of purpose now except as a brand and merchandising vehicle.

Instead of feeling threatened, point out where I'm wrong on a thematic level.

They had falcap siding with illegal immigrants against his country, if that isn't as far removed from purpose of the character, you tell me.

>>87406207

Also to add onto my point, there is nothing stopping him from being the Falcon, I just think cap should be retired. Or timelocked to when his character had a purpose and point.

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>>87398383

>>87404610
Why would anyone ever want to be a dumb bitch/abusive asshole?

>>87398383
If I am to be honest, I don't mind the idea of Old!Laura becoming Wolverine after Logan died. The irony of the Howlett family heirs would have increased dramatically which would have been nice and it could have actually been heartwarming like Bucky taking over Cap's role.

But... This Laura... she just irks me. She has no real identity nor is her previous history important. Her personality, pre-Bendis is handwaved away as she is keeping up apperances for her boyfriend and her previous supporting cast barely gets mentioned. Seriously, the only difference between Riri Williams, a character that is coming out a vaccum to replace a previously established character despite having no reason to, and this Wolverine is that this one has the name of a previously established character.

>>87406207
The U.S. Army was segregated during World War 2, you imbecile.
Black Americans were rarely allowed near combat, so you're condemning an entire race for being discriminated against by their own government.
You feel proud? You think you struck a mighty blow against "/co/umblr" this day?
You're a disgrace to your entire inbred albino subspecies.
Go back to /pol/ and whine about your latest failure, you know you're going to.

>>87406746

So that somehow changes history because they were excluded from serving? I wouldn't disagree with you and I neither feel proud or anything, I was pointing out why Cap being the way he is made sense for the time period and why I felt he should be retired, I think you have the bias and are angry about something though.

if you're angry about being the other or the 'other-ing' in general well, get over it because that wasn't the point in any of the posts.

Nor does it explain why you're so hostile because i'm pointing out that Cap is wrong vehicle for these changes.

If they had stuck to Falcon's original characterization, we wouldn't be having this little tiff. Also if you dislike criticism of characters that are black, you'll understand why you end up with flawless characters that nobody likes because of people like you that cannot handle criticism or flaws.

>>87406207
>They had falcap siding with illegal immigrants against his country, if that isn't as far removed from purpose of the character, you tell me.

>"I dont understand Captain America"

>>87398383
My tastes involving your list of characters divert sharply from yours, OP, but I do share your take on Laura being Wolverine and the lack of reasons within the story that are a part of her taking up the identity.

Personally, I would have liked to have seen her go in a different direction with a supporting cast group that aren't with any known agency or super group, but are a part of something she identifies with and feels strongly about doing something that needs to be done.

She was a chance of exploring something new and taking the readers with her on issue 1. Instead... Wasted potential.

>>87407274

what do you mean, cap totally should've let those civilians get shot in cold blood by a bunch of racist assholes.

>>87407285
>Wasted potential.
That's what ANAD Wolverine should be renamed as. It's like the writer is afraid to take any risks.

>>87407274

>cap should undermine his country by helping people subvert its laws

>Captain America

>>87407388
Murdering people in cold blood without any authority of law isn't the right side of this.
As a matter of fact, it's also against those U.S. laws you claim to care about. SPOILER: BUT DON'T.
It's the Alt-Right side.
Still feel morally righteous?

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>I'll never be Wolverine
>becomes Wolverine

does no one at Marvel read the books they make?

>>87407561
It's almost as if stories happened between those two points, stories that changed her point of view on things.

>>87407561
- Kid doesn't want to become their father.
- Life happens.
- Kid becomes their father.

I gotta tell you there, anon, this doesn't look to be all that unrealistic.

>>87407530

I think the entire situation was built to make the wrong side, the right one but I also don't agree with militias on our borders.

Just because someone doesn't want illegal immigrants in their countries doesn't automatically mean I support gunning people down. Tone down the strawmans.

>>87407561

I know right? Remember that time she hated Spider-Man, then later she doesn't hate Spider-Man? Unbelievable.

>>87407561
her point of view literally changed in one fucking comic from fuck wolverine for dying>to proud he was my dad> to fuck it im running around with the most disfunctional people but since fem fantomex gave me wolverines old suit ill throuw years of establishing myself as my own person not my bro bitchman or my dadio wolverine imma be shipped into retardation in the span on 1 comic and a death of wolverine wrap up series. literally shitted all over her character the moment bendis realized he needed a wolverine for ANX and dakan is a bitch and actually is so ingrained in being a iredeemable ass that writers literally say the moment he becomes wolverine his character is done.

>>87398383
Laura is a shadow of her former self. I pretend she was and the rest of the new xmen were replaced with skrulls just before her previous solo started

>>87398552
this

>>87398383
the same reasoning you use to justify Sam as Cap can be used for Laura. Just replace the word 'evil' for 'old/dead'.

Actually it's a good change, and it's the only good X-book currently running

>>87407742
This makes Laura's looks even more silly

>>87407705
> Strawman.

IRL there are random self-appointed people with semiautomatic weapons "patrolling" the border in an open and flagrant act of vigilantism.
How exactly do you expect that situation to be free of a body-count?
To hear some people talk one might even gather the notion that there's even an element of premeditation in setting themselves up in position to kill random human beings.

Feeling patriotic yet? Nothing says you love your country like a little blood on your flag.

>>87398383
>Miles is cool
>Whor is fine
>Cho... ...Totally Awesome.
>Sam becoming Cap was a natural evolution

Really? I mean just really? Is this bait.

>>87408768

>arguing on one side of two wrongs don't make a right.

You're not going to shame someone because one person decides to do something bad, that isn't going to change opinion about illegal immigrants.

Also unlike the liberal minded friends of the country, I do not feel the need to apologize for our behavior. Not our land stealing, systematic oppression, civil war behavior, good or bad. Using nuclear weapons, Literally any of our crimes from early imperialism to playing world cops. We have always done what is in our best interest.

>>87408768
>IRL there are random self-appointed people with semiautomatic weapons "patrolling" the border in an open and flagrant act of vigilantism.
Ah, Americans really have never set a precedence for using vigilantism to protect themselves from a a destructive foreign influence before, have they? Americans are fucking baffling, you have illegal immigrants flooding your country at absurd and disturbing levels and your country is committing outright demographic suicide- and your only response is "But what if we hurt someones feelings?"

You guys are a joke

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>buying marvel comics
I haven't ever liked to pick sides but even if you don't love rebirth, you should not give marvel your money at this point.
>Dont go see DC movies
>Buy DC comics
>Go see Marvel movies
>Dont buy Marvel comics

Until the companies made to please consumers and make money understand how to make good comics, they dont deserve revenue.

>>87408957
I buy numerous Marvel comics because I think they're good and entertaining. They deserve the money.

>>87408845
Psycho, you are literally arguing that preventing murder is an equivalent evil to commiting murder.

Think long and hard about how that might be wrong. Take your time with it. Maybe read the Bible a bit.

>>87409239

No I'm arguing that just because nut jobs want to go play desert bandit doesn't mean I want illegals here either.

They shouldn't be coming into the country, which means they wouldn't be getting shot by desert nutjobs.

You need to think long and hard.

>>87409472
>>87409472
Again: NOT "playing desert bandit"; hunting in order to MURDER human beings.
That you can't differentiate between those two things is a moral failing on your part.
That you can't differentiate between those illegal actions and actual patriotic behavior is a failing of your civic responsibility.

>>87409841

I disagree. I have no civic duty to non-citizens. If you wanted to make an argument on humanitarian grounds, I could understand but wouldn't agree with that either. Not our people, not our problem, send them back, all of them. Then if police want to go around locking up nutjobs that want to play vigilante, by all means they can do that to.

>>87407688

Wolverine isn't her father.

>>87409951

Their relationship was father-daughter regardless of semantic arguments about whether a clone would be a sister or a daughter or neither

>>87398522
fpbp

>>87409909
GAAAAAWWWWD!

The civic duty is NOT to the freakin' citizens of another country.
IT IS TO THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES.

THAT is what brought FalCap into that situation, THAT is what forced FalCap to act and protect those people: it is a crime to murder people in the U.S., that law is not nullified because the victims are part of some non-existent social class that negates the rule of law when they're the victims.
This is why you're not even on the side of patriotism, never mind the common American decency you're ignoring too.

>>87410125

Which nobody is disagreeing with stopping people from murdering others, you seem to think that excuses the others behavior though which was my whole point about two wrongs. I agree being an illegal is a much less of a wrong than murder or attempted murder or whatever but you're arguing as if that is going to change my mind and for your own sake should just agree to disagree.

Civic duty by definition is bound to the society which is true but you're arguing about our laws as if they apply to people not of our country which they don't, like due process. The obama administration tweaked it so some of it does but legally that hasn't been precedent.

Patriotism is tied to ideals generated by the state and if you're trying to protect the state, it still would make that patriotic, it just goes against your interest trying to defend why cap is going against legal citizens for non-citizens when both groups are in the wrong. One group for potentially killing people and the other for trying to enter the country illegally. The one should be sent back and the other put in jail.

>>87410125

Also to prove my point about rights, even right now we have prisons with illegals in them being held indefinitely, including minors because they're defacto stateless by their own actions and aren't given rights, not even close to us as citizens. Making them almost not even human, infact I would argue our animal shelters treat random discarded pets better than illegals. Which I could see how that would generate sympathy with Cap, still doesn't make them less wrong from coming here though.

>>87410594
This was explained to you very clearly.
Violating the laws of the U.S. is not patriotism.
Choosing victims of your crimes that are not citizens does not make those violations of the law legal, or acts of patriotism.
Your xenophobic, racist, and sociopathic desire to see criminals subvert U.S. law and go free without consequence because you think their crimes can be called patriotic is nothing more than an undermining of American values and rule of law.
Your opinions are the opinions of someone who hates The United States of America.
This is a nation of laws, that's the line between patriotism and whatever sick mockery of nationalism you're promoting here.

And take this shit back to /pol/ already.
This crap your spewing is far off thread topic.

>>87411129

You obviously didn't read my post here >>87410594

I said they should be sent back (The Illegals) and The Vigilantes should be jailed.

Both groups are dealt with fairly. That is by the law. Which isn't xenophobic, or racist, or sociopathic since only reason i'm even posting anymore is mostly out of spite to be honest, which is an emotion. So no.

Your values and my values aren't the same. We disagree fundamentally.

>>87411129

Also only reason I'm posting is someone else started it by posting at me, if you stop, I won't have anyone to post to.

>>87398383
>Miles is cool because he was carrying on the legacy of Ultimate Pete and now he gets to be teen Spider Man while Pete gets to be Superior.
You've
>Whor is fine because there always needs a Norse God of Thunder
Got to be
>There have been other Hulks before and Cho gave Banner what he's always wanted. Plus he's Totally Awesome.
Fucking
>Captain America was always a mantle and Sam becoming Cap was a natural evolution for both him and Steve. Now he's the good Cap while Steve is evil.
Kidding me!

>>87411218
> I made up a rule that you lose if you post again! I got the last word! I win! I'm a special snowflake!

I AGAIN am disagreeing with the bullshit you've pushed that crimes should be acceptable because other crimes have occurred.

GET IT YET?

Claiming the crimes you'd like to commit are acts of heroic American patriotism and should be forgiven automatically doesn't make it so.

GET IT YET?

You keep trying to reimagine what you've already posted, but you're just too fucking stupid to erase it. You said it, now eat your words.

>>87411416
those are some very long legs

>>87411621
The heels help.

>>87411438

No, I didn't re-imagine anything, I posted my post again stating one group needed to be sent back and other sent to jail, twice now.

the rest of that is just 'no'

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I generally don't like the push behind characters like Laura!Wolverine, FemThor, RiRi etc.

I get that they want more prominent female characters. But the way they're doing it is wrong. Instead of succeeding on their own, with their own identities, they want these characters to get their popularity from adopting brand names popularized by iconic males. They're basically expecting them to leech off these male characters' cool factor... even though they didn't have to do that.

I get that a popular brand can do wonders to propel a character to popularity. But that's where characters like Ms.Marvel or Spider-Gwen, I think, are much better designed. They still have the brand support, but also their own identities. Spider-Gwen didn't have to become "the new Spider-Man" to become popular.

Also, Miles is different. The original Ultimate Peter's story was "let us retell the Spider-Man story in a new way". Miles was just "let us retell the Spider-Man story in a new way, again". Ultimate Pete wasn't the original Miles upstaged, they were both just different copies of the 616 original.

SamCap is different too, in a way. Canonically, the Captain America mantle was used by many different characters. Steve himself refused to wear the Cap identity a couple times, for certain reasons. So it's an identity that can be switched to someone else. I don't like how it superceded Sam's own Falcon identity, though. In my opinion, a better candidate would be Patriot.

>>87411854
Your memory that bad? You forget again what board you're on? Happens a lot here.

The argument started over FalCap stopping armed whackos who were kidnapping people and trying to kill a few.
My position was (GET IT YET?) that stopping those crimes wasn't un-patriotic.
YOU are the one fighting me on this point.

GET IT YET? You weren't whining about how live and let live was your creed, you were pushing the line that there shouldn't have been any intervention to prevent crimes.
You were pushing that letting murders happen was patriotic.
Those were your values, as posted here. Now own them or admit they're shit values to hold.

>>87412077

I argued he sided with one group when both groups were guilty, you made it about one group is in right and that isn't right. Entering a country illegally is still wrong. They should have been sent back and Vigilantes locked up. Both groups were breaking the law.

>>87405643

Laura should've saved herself for one of her clones.

>>87412113
The clear cut "either-or" is if or if not Falcon Cap should stop border patrol vigilantes from kidnapping, murdering, or otherwise commiting crimes against those illegal immigrants, who were trespassing, when he's witnessing those crimes in action.

That's not vague.
One person said it was unpatriotic to stop those crimes of murder.
One person said it was unpatriotic to passively watch on and condone those crimes of murder.

And so far all you've said is that you recognize crimes did happen. Brave moral stance. But it's time to say what rules you swear loyalty to.

>>87412120
If you count the clone's body as her's too, she technically did.

>>87412245

I told you it isn't, I don't agree to premise, if you have two groups of law breakers, I would jail the citizens and send back the non-citizens, it isn't equal since the groups aren't equal.

The vigilantes are our citizens and need to be dealt with accordingly which was my entire intention and I elaborated since you obviously didn't understand that was my entire point, morality or your morality never entered into it with me. In the comic books, they have laws for heroes and things that separate them from real world vigilantism and laws that guide us in the real world.

You're trying to argue a simple narrative and my point was both groups are in wrong which you somehow took as me condoning murder, and then I elaborated that they're trying to enter country illegally, doesn't mean I want desert nutjobs being vigilantes.

Heroes are also vigilantes though and have powers, so if you really wanted to make this a thing, first you would have to dissect that if I was to be honest.

The comic is playing it as if it was a hero encountering a real world situation built with hyperbole to side with one group over the other in obvious caricature and after some elaboration I finally spelled out exactly what I meant after you flung a bunch of insults at me that..well were never applicable.

I choose both. Vigilantes get locked up, and Illegals go back home. Once you have one group disarmed, it wouldn't be hard to do both, so entire premise is flawed trying to make it either or. That is real world for you and not some narrow choice puppet-ed as a moral argument that you seem to be trying to constantly reword and put out there.

It isn't a moral/ethical issue to me but a legal one. Both groups are breaking the law, one needs jail and other needs to be sent back and that is only point you're ever going to get from me.

>>87411959
>Also, Miles is different.
>SamCap is different too, in a way.

What's so bad about them, is not that they do not deserve it.
Sam Wilson fought by the man's side for years, he deserves to put on the Captain America mantle in Steve Rogers' absence.
However, they did not give the mantle to Sam Wilson because he deserves it, that implies that modern Marvel writers care about the characters, and this is grossly false.
Sam Wilson was give the mantle because he is black. Because one day, those SJW's who have taken over mantle thought white people are over-represented and black people are under-represented and therefore they should take away the spotlight from white people and give it to black ones. That's why Sam Wilson became Captain America.
And though diversity is not bad thing, and comic readers have in past times accepted and embraced black characters, this was different.
It wasn't subtle, the whole marketing about Sam Wilson Cap screamed like "Ha! Take that, whitey! Captain America is black now!", I actually believe they intended it to hurt, they intended to offend us with it all, when you have fucks like Brevoort saying that angry fans mean more sales.
And ofcourse we were offended, not because we're racists, but because we sensed their hostility against us - and we reacted.
And because your average reader with his average intelligence, in the heat of the moment too, reacts to this hostility against him through the Sam Wilson Cap proxy, it's gonna sound like he's racist.
But he's not the racist, not the guy who loved Storm, Luke Cage, Black Panther, Monica Rambeau and Goliath and many more.
He just got baited and he bit the bait hard.
The only racists here are the SJW's themselves, they are one the ones who discriminate against white people and twist and turn it around to make it seem as they're being discriminated against, instead.

>>87412866

Sam Wilson was given the mantle because everyone really liked Anthony Mackie

>>87412928

But Falcap hasn't been written like a mackie character, sadly.

>>87411959
Miles and Sam are lame
turn all characters into cutie girls because then they'd be cutie girls

>>87412928
Oh don't be dumb.
Mackie played the Falcon. If it was for that, then Sam Wilson as the Falcon would have his own title.
And he wasn't THAT popular. Bucky and Cap were much more liked and impressive to everyone than him.

>>87412866
I kind of agree with your statement about Sam and Marvel's marketing. I just think the result isn't as egregious as e.g. FemThor. Funny thing, not many /co/mrades know it's not even the first time Marvel makes Sam Captain America with an "I'm black, y'all" message.

All in all, I'd prefer Sam to be Falcon and to be pushed to become a more important hero, especially due to his movie popularity. Pretty much what >>87412955 said. Alas...

Can't agree about Miles, I don't have a problem with Miles, because, again, as I said, both UltPeter and Miles were 2 different copies of 616Peter story.

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>>87412951
>marvel
>cutie girls

>>87413278
Besides She-Hulk those are all qtz
You're crazy
A-Force was my jam
Elsa was in the last issue, c'mon

>>87411621

4u

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>>87413297
nigga what

you have a shit taste in qtz nigga

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>>87398721
Kinky

>>87404373
>>87404469
You act like others writer don't blatantly ignore established canon, and in this case it just could be that the writer for Gwenpool is ignoring the lore.

>>87413440
Shulkie used to be very sexy.
Now fictional women can't be sexy because feminists are fat ugly dykes and it makes them feel bad.

>>87408956
>America is a country of immigrants
>How dare we allow immigrants into our border, it will conflict with our demographic of immigrants

being this retarded

>>87414022
What's worse is that this artist used to draw great female characters, energetic but also feminine. This shit pretty much ruined his talent.

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>>87414022
You saying that this ain't sexy?

>>87414051
>all immigrants are illegal immigrants
lolwut

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>>87398383
>Miles is cool

>>87414051
>>America is a country of immigrants who worked their hides to the bone to come here legally and adapted to american culture as best they could
Fixed for you.

Illegals should be kicked out if just for one reason alone, so that the people who did come here legally get their fair shake. They had to wait months, even years, just to do things the right way just to have all their hard work undermined because some random fence hopper is given as much care and precedence as them.

>>87414051
Abolish all the Green Card bullshit for all the other countries then. Why do people from the fucking Middle East and Eastern Europe have to jump through ridiculous bureaucratic hoops to have a chance to immigrate, but people from Latin America are welcome if they just happen to jump the border?

>>87398383
>Miles is cool.

Take your shitty bait and leave.

I think the real reason that a lot of these replacements seem bland or uninteresting is pacing and impact, honestly.

Back in the old days, a replacement storyline was a big deal because they happened pretty rarely and vastly impacted the lives of the characters. When Rhodey replaced Tony as Iron Man in the first half of the 80s it was shocking, not because the new Iron Man was a black dude, but because the very idea that Marvel would sideline (seemingly permanently) Tony Stark after an unbelievable (at the time) 20 years of having been a Marvel Universe mainstay was surprising. Furthermore, the books focused heavily on the oddity of having a replacement at all alongside all the older heroes. An even better example of the impact of a replacement was when Mark Gruenwald replaced Steve Rogers with John Walker (later USAgent). That replacement had an even bigger impact because Walker had a vastly different personality and different ideals than Rogers had, so seeing him interact with Cap's old allies and enemies was a big thing. Further, the Walker Cap run was carefully designed to respond to the people who believe that Cap is merely a tool of the capitalist government of the USA, or the military-industrial complex, and so the story had a distinct sense of direction.

But the thing is, even when a modern Marvel replacement uses these kinds of themes and has a thought behind it, it gets lost and that is simply because right now, replacement stories are constantly happening. You literally cannot go six months without some character getting replaced by a new one, which weakens the impact of all the other stories as well. instead of having a nearly fascist, ultra-patriotic Cap around for a while and studying how his interactions with the rest of the Marvel U who know only Steve Rogers works out, the stories hurry on willy-nilly to the next fresh replacement story. you have team-up books in which both the heroes are replacements simultaneously, which loses all the impact.

>>87414742

Add to this the fact that comic books today are considerably slower paced than the used to and you get a situation where pretty much every replacement story is trying to vye for shelf space at the same time. As a result, rather than feeling like a big event, the story must resort to "shocker" value to sell itself, which is a temporary boost at best.

The end result is a clutter of stories which all tout to be super important and shocking but quickly get lost into a bog of similar stories the moment the new appeal vanishes. Laura as Wolverine is one of the worst examples of it, where the replacement just flew totally under the radar for most people (although there have been worse executions of it just in the last year, for example the new Giant-Man and new Quasar).

>>87414051

>America is a country of immigrants

Actually it's a former colony.

>>87414742
Rhodey as Iron Man is completely different from all these All-New Marvel replacements.

First of all, Rhodey as Iron Man wasn't the main attraction. It was a part of a huge and important story arc, that was mainly about Tony, and his problems with alcoholism and a lack of responsibility. It was a Tony story arc first and foremost, not a "black Iron Man!!!!!!!!" story arc.

Rhodey, on the other hand was interesting not because "for the first time, a black man can be Iron Man!!!!!!!". But because he was Tony's friend who took over his Iron Man persona to help him, and has to learn to deal with all the problems and responsibilities that come with the mantle.

Rhodey was a progressive character because he was an interesting and well-written black character. Not because he was "a black Iron Man!!!!!!!!".