Homestuck

>>87392485
yes, all the characters are intentional cliches

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>>87392485
FUCK YOU AND FUCK HOMESTUCK

PROBLEM SLEUTH WAS UNQUESTIONABLY SUPERIOR TO THE ABORTION THAT WAS HOMESTUCK

FUCK YOU

One of the requirements for being a Mary Sue is being a self-insert, so no.

>>87392485
Mary-Sues cannot exist in source materials.

>>87392578
she was based on hussie's girlfriend at the time, betel

>>87392578
We have long since passed the point where this is true. One might as well say that they need to be a non-canon fan-fic to be a Mary Sue, so long as we're including auxiliary elements from the initial source.

yo fags let's talk obscure slightly related homestuck music
hit me up with recs

>>87392629
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Eo-gIWzhU

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So what does the symbol on Joey's shirt mean?

It's Homestuck's fault I do gay things with my butt now.

>>87392687
Target to jizz on her titties

>>87392485
Seh never was a Mary Sue, by definition, a main protagonist can't be a Mary sue.

Also, Jade is my favorite character.

Why are Homestuck fangirls so slutty

>>87392712
More like Hussie gave her the most attention in Act 5, gave her a fucking handjob and then trashed her and Rose into minor background characters whose arcs have long been finished.

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It's kind of fucking weird how Caliborn is like one of the few things keeping John alive

>>87392687
That she's a special snowflake, of course.

>>87392592
>Mary-Sues cannot exist in source materials.
Vriska was literally intended to be one, albeit one the other characters "realistically" reacted to

>>87392871
And then she became an unironic Mary Sue the characters reacted to as unnaturally as any little girl's self-insert in a bad fic

>>87392871
>>87392750
>B-by definition a Mary Sue can't be a Protagonist
>B-by defintion a Mary Sue has to be a self insert
Words change, faggots.

Hey, take the word faggot! It originally meant "bundle of sticks", but now it means "Anal sex obssesed homosexual."

Likewise, maybe back on Darpanet Mary Sue meant some self insert in Star Trek fanfiction, but now it means characters the author applies different standards to in a transparently obvious way.

Feferi and Nepeta have to stay dead, but let's retcon the fucking comic to save Vriska AND ONLY VRISKA

>>87392871
Fun fact: Vriska was created, because oldfags bitched at Jade back then around Act 1 to 4. Hussie commented on a panel with Jade and a 8-ball and this was suppposed to be a concept idea for Vriska.

>>87392907
>unnaturally
>everyone was apathetic about her bullshit and only Karkat gave her (you)s

Really?

>>87392907
I always interpreted that as they just got tired of getting angry at her bullshit

>>87392924
>responds to the worst kid being called out for being the worst kid by creating the worst character in established web-original fiction

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>>87392944
They followed along because it was easier than making a scene and work on their own problems. Which sort of ceased to exist due to the presence of Vriska anyway.

>I will turn my ironic Mary Sue in an unironic one!
>Am I not clever and subversive?

>>87392993
>>87392924
Act 5 Vriska was GREAT

All you had to do was NOT BRING HER BACK and maybe we'd be bitching about how we went from Vriska to Aranea, blissfully unaware of the Monster called "Act 6 Vriska."

>>87392944
>>87392977
That and the time on the meteor, being stuck in close proximity to her probably lead them to learning to tolerate it given they didn't lynch her

>>87393016
I still maintain that Hussie always intended to bring her back in some fashion, Aranea was just a not!Vriska/seemingly "good" Vriska thrown in there to taunt us

So what sort of reaction was intended when Vriska trashtalked (Vriska)?

One became a better, albeit very emotional person that didn't want to be the hero anymore and help the effort, the other still wants to be the hero for selfish reasons but only became 'better' in the sense that she learned you don't need to kill or threaten people to get them to do what you want.

I really have a hard time sympathizing with any of the two.

What was the point? What was Hussie's intention here?

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>>87393016

Aranea would've been as good a character as Act 5 Vriska if the fanbase had been the same as Act 5. Killing popular characters meant bad fans couldn't disassociate the act from the writing.

>>87393126

No idea what his intention was, but I consider it a great upd8, because it made a bunch of idiots on Tumblr super mad because he sunk a gay ship.

It's hilarious how Tumblr Shippers will overlook really toxic relationship behavior if it's yaoi/lesbian. If Meenah had been a 19 year old guy grooming a 13 year old girl, they would've flipped their collective shit.

>>87392650
Is that Simon Pegg above crazy Griffith?

>>87392687
It's a sphincter.

>>87392919
>but now it means characters the author applies different standards to in a transparently obvious way.
Oh. That's a good way of putting it.

>>87392919

I am still fucking mad as hell that John could save literally everyone in the comic and only saved Vriska.

The Condy breadcrumbs would've been fucking BEAUTIFUL if he pulled some Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya 'My Name is John Smith' bullshit with her. John actively contributing in killing someone just felt wrong.

>>87393233
John is not a very good main character. He truly does suck at being a hero.

He is aware that he didn't save his friends, but just created copied, isn't he? Not that it matters to him.

>tfw there will never be a montage of john saving everyone, including the villains
>tfw equius and nepeta stay dead
>tfw feferi remains blasted
>tfw the blue dork won't reach into the fire to save aranea

>>87393016
I'll grant you that. Vriska's developments with John warmed me up to her. She's still heinous but at least she tried to be better.

>>87392919
>Words change, faggots.
But words don't change to your liking an neither has Mary Sue.

to understand the meaning of a Mary Sue, you have to understand why it is a bad thing.

And what make a Mary Sue a bad thing is that it is a side character that draw all of the spotlight to her, make all the other character useless and only there to praise her and kill any thrill or tension in the story by being able to solve everything by herself and/or making everything about herself.

By the very meaning of what a Mary Sue is, a Main protagonist can't be a Mary Sue: you can't steal the spotlight if the spotlight was already on you in the first place.

Being cool/competent/kicking ass/well liked doesn't make you a mary sue. It's killing the story by being cool/competent/kicking ass/well liked and becoming the centrepiece of a story that wasn't initially about that character in the first place.

Jade was already a main character in the first place, never pulled all the spotlight to herself and her existence didn't made the story less interesting.

Therefore, she is not a Mary Sue.

Also, Self insert and Mary Sue are actually two different concept, even if they don't exclude each other.

>>87393195
No, my man, that's the legendary Paul Williams

>>87393273
But that's soooo cliche and conventional!

Seriously, there are ways to be unconventional without going full retard.

>>87392919
>>87393200
>but now it means characters the author applies different standards to in a transparently obvious way.
That's a completely false. see >>87393293
This is what a mary sue actually means.

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>>87393321
>>87393293
>Main characters can't be Mary Sues
lol what the fuck is this shit

here i think i found a character you might like his name is kirito he's the protagonist so by your, uh.... """"logic"""" he can't be a mary sue

>>87392919
>the author applies different standards to in a transparently obvious way.
>Feferi and Nepeta have to stay dead, but let's retcon the fucking comic to save Vriska AND ONLY VRISKA
1. It's Jade in the OP, not Vriska
2. it's not about standard being applied to characters. it's about selfconsitancy and making character act in a way that fit them.

Story aren't written on the notion tat "good characters will be rewarded and bad character will be punished". That would be terrible.

>>87393318

>impying a generic they fight the bad guys ending and then have lots of babies ending isn't even more cliched

People called Jade a Mary Sue and complained about her in general back in the old days because she was exactly what Calliope is now, and Calliope is possibly the most hated character in Homestuck around these parts.

>>87393394
He isn't. That doesn't mean the story isn't shit.

The most upsetting part to me is not that ships I liked were sunk or simply written out of existence, like Karezi, one of the few ships with a lot of build up and history. No, that's just part of a bigger problem.

That problem being Hussie's apparent urge to always be ironic, unconventional and unpredictable. To the point that the story, plot and characters suffer for it. That wanton disregard for any storytelling convention just because. It hurts even more because all of these ideas have great potential if only they had gotten more of an order, a structure to them.

>>87393401
>implying that's not only because he wanted to be so ironic he went with a cliched ending because people expect him to not do it

We are talking of amounts of layers of irony here Shrek couldn't even fathom.

Hussie isn't an ogre, he goes beyond that.

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>>87393400
>>87393321
>>87393293
1. I heard you the first fucking time, you samefagging retard.

2. I'm not talking moral standards, I'm talking story standards. When Vriska dies it's not Terezi acting out of JUSTICE, it's cold cruel pragmatism that's being applied. It's fitting and ironic since cold cruel pragmatism is how Vriska justified her atrocities.

But then it turns out that Terezi looking into the future and seeing that if she didn't kill Vriska everyone would die was wrong. The story twists over backwards to say Vriska is the key to all of this, contradicting itself.

She's a fucking Mary Sue. Oh and Jade is a hilarious joke with a dog cock.

>>87393394
Kirito is just an obnoxiously skilled/can't do wrong character. The sniper chick from the second season might be a better example for your argument.

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>>87393419
>Kirito isn't a Mary Sue
It's very clear you're just an autist stuck on his personal definition of Mary Sue.

So for myself and the good of everyone in the thread, let's come up with a NEW definition for our autistic faggot here.

We'll call them Cocksluts!

Cocksluts - A character who the author applies double standards to in a way which hurts his story's overall consistency.

Jade is a Cockslut. A huge Cockslut.

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>>87393394
A main protagonist that is super Cool and kick ass and always save the day can actually be an entertaining story, if done well.

>>87393456
>Gatson_transparent
>isn't actually transparent

All my hopes and dreams were crushed. How could you?

>>87393495
And we use the term "Mary Sue" when they're not.
>>87393488
Sounds good to me. Vriska is such a Cockslut. I think Dave is also a Cockslut at the end.

>>87393495
>A main protagonist that is super Cool and kick ass and always save the day can actually be an entertaining story, if done well.
That's one of the main reasons stories were told in the first place. This thread is fucking unbelievable.

>>87393495
see>>87393488
A Mary Sue has to take the spotlight away from the maincast and kill any interresting thing to be a Mary Sue.

Having a main character being super cool in itself isn't enough to make him a Mary Sue.

>>87392775
Caliborn is the one thing he still has from back during the game, the one loose end remaining.

The one person who, like John, hasn't changed. Likewise, while they've all moved on, it's only Caliborn who remembers John. A Caliborn who is exactly as John remembers. Someone who he feels he can blame and beat up for for everything that's gone wrong with his life, whether it was actually his fault or not. I mean, it wouldn't be right for him to get angry at his "friends" for being happy and living their lives.

At this stage, all John needs to do is ignore the "troll" and not get pulled into his shit. Just get out of his house and do shit, because it's not like Caliborn can come to him. He lets Caliborn fuck with him because he secretly wants Caliborn to fuck with him and give him an excuse to be angry and get pulled into his shit.

>>87393515
>That's one of the main reasons stories were told in the first place.
Vriska is not fucking Beowulf Anon

>>87393456
>Gaston_transparent.png
>it's not tr

>>87393505
you FUCKER

>>87393548
She's not, and she's not a "Mary Sue," either. You all just latch on to a convenient shorthand by which to refer an obnoxious character who keeps getting away with being a cunt.

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>>87393568
Yeah, she's a Cockslut. A total cockslut

>>87393456
>But then it turns out that Terezi looking into the future and seeing that if she didn't kill Vriska everyone would die was wrong. The story twists over backwards to say Vriska is the key to all of this, contradicting itself.
There is zero contradiction. The reason Vriska would have caused the death of everyone is because she would have tried to fight Bec Noir. John prevent that. There is no narrative contradiction about it and all of what you are mentioning has nothing to do with Mary Sue anyway.

And no different standards were applied here either.

You are badly remembering the whole thing just so you can stick a label that isn't even adequate to a character you don't like.

A character you don't like doesn't mean it is badly written. It's just that you don't like it.

>>87393488
>on his personal definition of Mary Sue.
I am actually taking the REAL definition of a May Sue, instead of trying to change it's meaning to "A competent character I don't like", like some are trying to do, nowadays.

>>87393602
>A character you don't like doesn't mean it is badly written.

Ah, it all comes out in the end. Behind the Anon concerned about the "proper definition" of the term Mary Sue is another Vriska fanboy.

Hilarious. Oh please, go on. Tell me how Act 6 Vriska is a good character. I'm DYING to know!

>>87393627
>Ah, it all comes out in the end. Behind the Anon concerned about the "proper definition" of the term Mary Sue is another Vriska fanboy.
Except not. Vriska is my least favorite character. But unlike you, I don't let my hate for her affect my objectivity.

>>87393646
So tell me Anon, how is Act 6 Vriska a good character? I mean, uh... "objectively" speaking.

I think what you define as Mary Sue depends on when you learned that term.

I picked up when I was first exploring English fanfiction in my early Internet days in the 2000s, and back then, the defining attributes of a Mary Sure were:

- self insert of the author
- unconditionally loved by everyone but her enemies
- can do no wrong, all powerful
- dark, tragic and troubled past

I guess the most common elements found in the varying definitions are that "they can do no wrong", are unconditionally loved and just about good at everything. But in a way where they do not feel like a real character. They need to feel fake even for a story.

Original Vriska is basically a character that behaves like an evil Mary Sue and expects the world to adjust to that. Act 6 Vriska is a weird combination of bonafide Mary Sue and Deus Ex, which Homestuck had plenty of already. The thing however is that it's not the characters liking her, but the story bending itself backwards because she is needed to win somehow.

>>87393658
*crickets*

I think if we're going to redefine Mary Sue based on how it's commonly used, we need to all admit that it means "character I don't like"

More nuanced, thought out definitions are definitely used sparingly.

>>87393709
It's exclusively a fanfiction term holy fuck stop it

>>87393627
>Tell me how Act 6 Vriska is a good character. I'm DYING to know!
Never said she was good, I said she wasn't a Mary
Sue.

My favorite moment was Vriska actually reaped out completly (Vriska) and made a wreck out of her. It would have been even better if it was Vriska instead of (Vriska), but still good.

One of the most interesting aspect about that character is that, after her death, she became ready to sacrifice everything to become relevant again. and she succeed at a very ironical cost: her own relevancy. She managed to became relevant again, and alive (ie: thnaks to her, John merge with the House cursor, which lead to him change time and preventing her death), but it turned out to be an alternate self. The one who worked so hard to get back into the game got to be served a new one by the very one she saved.

I really enjoyed that twist. But I really would like to know if current Main Vriska would get broken down if she learned the reason she is still alive is precisely because of that (Vriska) that she loathed so much. I'd really like to see that.

>>87392485

Homestuck had the unequivocally worst ending I have ever seen in anything

why are we still talking about it

>>87393709
It's obvious that Mary Sue is just "a term you don't like."

You want to drag everyone into such degrees of subjectivity that no character is bad, but that leads to no character being good either.

I disagree with people who call Roxy a Mary Sue, but I'm not going to fucking pretend I don't know what they mean when they say it. It's a commonly used, commonly understood term. Hollywood Screenwriters use it, Novelists use it, Hussie fucking used it

>>87393658
see>>87393746

>>87393763
So it all boils down to the same semantical issue.

Fine, you fucking worm, name a character you WOULD consider a Mary Sue.

>>87393709
>it means "character I don't like"
Does it? There are lots of characters who people don't like who never get hit with the Mary Sue label. So let's stop being retarded and pretending we don't know what people mean when they call someone a "Mary Sue". We know that the term ends up being applied to characters who feel like something that came out of a crappy fanfiction, even if they're canon. A character who makes the writing feel noticeably shittier whenever the plot bends over to make them important.

>>87393784
There was zero semantic in anything I said.

>>87393796
Name a character you would consider a Mary Sue.

>>87393746

I liked the symbiosis of Vriska and Aranea's relationship in this aspect. Before Vriska came along, Aranea was content to wait for Meenah and be with her friend. Vriska wanted to defeat the final boss and regain relevance at any cost.

Ultimately, it was Aranea who achieved Vriska's goal (Even if she failed), and Vriska who got Aranea's initial desire (Becoming (Vriska)). The moment on the boat with the hug is a very story critical moment. Aranea is a truer heir to Act 5 Vriska than Vriska, as Aranea did exactly what Terezi stopped Vriska doing in the first place.

>>87393816

Calliope. Flawless, unconditionally loved, the key to the defeat of an undefeatable evil.

>>87393746
What? Her relevancy was given up because she got tired of it trying to be the hero and be relevant. There was no cost. She didn't care about how another copy of her was relevant again, but that she was relevant while still being her shitty old self.

>>87393885
But Anon, she's a main character! And as you said, main characters can't be Mary Sues!

Oh hey there's an epilogue

Oops they still don't show beating lord english

Fuck you Hussie

hussie had too little passion to really write a mary sue

>>87393885
> Flawless
She hid instead of helping
>unconditionally loved
Caliborn
>the key to the defeat of an undefeatable evil.
That was a completely different Calliope and that role was shared with the juju/kids

>>87393816
I can say I have actually encountered on in piece of actual fiction.

Having a side character growing to the point of sabotaging the story is something I am lucky to not have seen happened in work I am fan of.

>>87393915

Caliborn hates everything you fucking idiot

>>87393888
Have you not read what happened later. It's all talk, Vriska actually tell her what it is.

>>87393016
You definitely could bring her back, just not like that. One flying off wildly into being a shattered wreck, and the other not only not growing, but reverting back to the beginning of 5.2, with no negative consequences.

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Last thing I remember from Homestuck was Caliborn making a badly-drawn parody of Act 1, Bec Noir about to fight PM and I guess Lord English was in the process of destroying the afterlife that all the dead versions of the kids from the different timelines went to? Redpill me on the ending and how it was bad.

>>87393945
Including Calliope, therefore, she is not unconditionally loved.

>>87393233
Vriska was the only one worth saving anon
;::)

>>87393885
Calliope isn't a Mary Sue either.

Once again, being cool/competent/well liked/kicking ass isn't enough to qualify ads a mary Sue.

>>87393860
Me being lucky to not have followed a show having a Mary Sue doesn't make you right in any way, you know that.

If any thing, it only show the term tend to get over-used.

I just found out about the snapchats from yesterday. Thank you hussie for giving me double pseudo incest rosemary. My dick is still sore

>>87393746
>But I really would like to know if current Main Vriska would get broken down if she learned the reason she is still alive is precisely because of that (Vriska) that she loathed so much. I'd really like to see that.
I honestly think she either wouldn't care or would actually find it funny

>>87393915
>>87393975

Well, wikipedia describes a Mary Sue as a character that is "A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment."

I'll give you that Caliborn doesn't unconditionally love her, but that doesn't feel like it invalidates comparisons of Calliope to a mary sue. I think Callie is meant to deliberately invoke such feelings, really.

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>>87393913
*COUGH* *COUGH*

>>87393979

Step 1: Be fit or skinny
Step 2: Dress as Karkat
Step 3: Go to conventions
Step 4: Fuck pretty much everything

Seriously. Dressing as Karkat will get you all the pussy, dick or ass you desire.

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>>87393784
>>87393860
>>87394006
Oh, fuck, I actually got one.

AND I FUCKING HAT YOU FOR MAKING ME REMEMBER!

NOW THIS? THIS FUCKER IS A MOTHER FUCKING TEXT BOOK MARY SUE.

Fucker...

(the name is Adam Malkovitch, in case you are lucky enough to no know).

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>>87393957
(Almost) everyone dies.
Then John retcons everything to before everyone dies, but now Vriska is back.
Vriska solves everyone's problems and in turn the remaining characters become unbelievably shallow, one-note, and no longer resemble their pre-retcon selves at all in some cases, like Karkat.
Then there's a flash were nothing really gets resolved and we get a wishy-washy "ending" that doesn't tell us anything.
Oh, and Slick dies without any kind of reaction from anything.

>>87393903
>YFW the heavily hinted "Homestuck 2.0" is just one long demonhead mobster kingpinesque animated battle against Lord English that takes longer to watch than a reread of the comic

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L1 here.

This is actually something I had to deal with this week, and the Mary Sue guy is annoying me with his pedantry so here's my take.

There's a doctrine in Law known as "plain meaning."

If I attached a rider onto a drug possession law that said anyone who gets caught with a kilo cocaine gets 30 years, and if they use a gun they get 50 years, what would that mean?

Literalists say that if you use a gun in any fashion you get the 50 years. In other words, if the drug dealer was short five thousand bucks for his cocaine and so he offered up his MAC-10 submachine gun as a bartering device he would be "making use" of the gun and get the 50 years. Seems pretty silly, right?

That's where plain meaning comes in. People who understand plain meaning - and this includes/included Anthony Scalia, the evil Conservative Originalist guy - would say that of course to "Make Use" of a gun would be to use it violently.

Words change over time like Mary Sue. People generally agree on its meaning.

>>87394049
Neither of them are Mary Sue.

>>87394044
The entire point of Calliope was that she was so weak and cowardly that another version of her that wasn't softened up by human socialization had to be the one to fight her brother.

>>87393951
Vriska isn't here, so you will have to tell me.

>>87394085
Adam is a bad character, but he's a main character. Not a Mary Sue, your own definition.

And he wasn't inserted or introduced in Another M(He's the Computer in Fusion) so by your own definition he's not a Mary Sue.

>>87394096

It's really fucking dumb that Beta jack lived instead of robo Jack. All that build up to him having some critical roll in defeating lord english and... nothing, he dies in an unrelated event.

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:33 < purrkele!

so is this the right time to ask for dave/jade fics?

>>87394044
>"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment."
Either you accept that definition and then accept that not all Mary Sue are bad, or you have to understand that a requirement for being a Mary Sue is that it also make the story less good (usually, a Mary Sue will kill the story by resolving all the issue easily because she is so good, or by taking all of the spotligh).

It's important to remember why a mary sue is bad for a story. A description isn't enough saying she is cool, well liked, etc... isn't enough, you have to also understand how her introduction in the story make things worst.

>>87394139
nep is a cock of a pussy

>>87394130
He is a self-insert of the man who made the game and single-handedly destroyed the Metroid franchise, though. Seriously, they look identical, if you study Adam closely enough.

>>87394130
>but he's a main character.
WRONG. Samus IS the main character.

See, he is such a MAry Sue he made you forget the main protagonist of Metroid is actually Samus. I stand my point.

>>87394205
Oh please. If you're gonna backpedal like that then Jade and Vriska can be Mary Sues since John is the main character.

Adam gets more lines than Samus in Fusion

>>87394135
The dumbest thing about that is how the Hussie character saved Slick from dying in Cascade, just so he could die fighting a bunch of kids for no reason. The only way in which Slick impacted the story after shooting Snowman was by bringing the Felt to Jake for Collide and being another Jack for Dave/Dirk/Terezi to slap around.

>>87394101
>Importance to the central story is on par with the rest of the blue team (equius, nepeta, eridan, feferi)
>Basically they do the one thing and then fuck off for another a millennium
>Still get to be treated as if they're main characters
>Feferi's entire character is literally to be a placeholder for Aradia
>Despite being minor supports and Sollux not wanting to be any part of canon ongoings we see them all the time
>Literally based on Cyclops and Jean Grey

>>87394075
Why would I do that

>>87394130
>And he wasn't inserted or introduced in Another M(He's the Computer in Fusion) so by your own definition he's not a Mary Sue.
I have never said anything about an introduction rule.

Most of the time a Mary Sue is introduced because it's fanfiction and therefore doesn't exist in the story. But a side character can very well be there from the start and only become a mary Sue later on.

>>87394171

How does Callie's presence in the story not make things worse? Homestuck would've been a much better comic if Callie was never a character, and, as much as Caliborn produced some funny dialogue, if Lord English had remained a fairly inscrutable eldritch horror who was hinted to be a past player of the game.

>>87394263
Well, going by your Adam Model, Act 6 Vriska is a Mary Sue. She was fine in Act 5, but is an insufferable Mary Sue.

This is my actual opinion by the way. Fusion Adam is fine, Another M is cancer. Not JUST for Adam but he is fucking awful.

Act 6 Vriska is even more awful

>>87394250

Because grills dress as Nepeta at conventions. You don't have to convince them to dress as anything if they already are.

Sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat that a convention slut is going to track me down with some fucking abomination offspring.

>>87394229
>Oh please. If you're gonna backpedal like
There is Zero backpedaling at all.

Adam Malkovitch is never a main protagonist. In Other M there is only one Main protagonist and it's samus. Adam is a side-character, at the same level than the "remember me" guy.

>n Jade and Vriska can be Mary Sues since John is the main character.
Unlike Adam, Jade IS a main character and get a full intro just like John Dave and Rose.

>>87394306
You've never gotten laid at a convention and you know it.

>>87394347
Well I'm not the one bitching about Jade really, more Vriska. I'm more annoyed by how pointless Jade is than anything.

>>87394302
>Act 6 Vriska is even more awful
See >>87393126
There is actually aspect of Vriska that make the story interesting an her presence worth. Even if she is my least favorite character, her presence in the story actually bring some good stuff.

>>87394246
None of that qualify for MAry Sue.

to be a Mary Sue, you have to be so good/interesting that the story become about you and make things less interesting by being so good at everything.

>>87394401
Yeah yeah ok, she's your least favorite character but you think she's good and gush over her.

You're fooling no one

>>87394538
>but you think she's good and gush over her.
i don't. But I don't see her as a Mary Sue either. and while I don't like her, I can understand how she play a role in the story and that she was written to be disliked.

>>87394434
They're essentially mini-sues.

They don't get to have the plot revolve around them (Vriska already got you covered there)

>make things less interesting by being so good at everything

That however hold true for both of them to a T

>>87394587
Act 6 Vriska adds nothing and takes away everything. She beats the main bad guy by opening a box. She solves issues off-screen.

She is a cancer.

>>87394597
>That however hold true for both of them to a T
I disagree. Their presence actually made things entertaining.

>>87394615
>She beats the main bad guy by opening a box
We actually don't know what happened.

>>87394648
Hussie gave up

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>>87394626
>I disagree

Well alright then.
'Entertaining' is different for everyone in homestuck.

nah j/k/ that just means you're a filthy fucking homefuck and you should kill yourself ASAP.

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I think we c-can all agree that on the whole, Act 6 of Homestuck was a-actually a huge success!

>>87394272
Callie doesn't actively make the comic worse than it already was by act 6

Imagine Callie interacting with the pre-A6 characters and them openly making fun of her for her appearance, shitty fics, and autism the way people made fun of Nepeta

>>87394760
I liked it in its entirety up until the Retcon. The Retcon caused aggravated character assassination. It still had some good stuff afterward, but not enough to really make up for that.

>>87394803
>I liked it in its entirety
Trickster Arc was garbage

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Hey, wanna hear about the Kickstarter game that was made in my basement?

>>87393863
And then Vriska came back to life and fucked all that.

>>87394845
Trickster Arc Was Fucking Awesome.

>>87392485
a useless bitch in both sense of the word

>>87394794
Why would anyone make fun of Callie's appearance, though? Cherubs look awesome.

>>87392769

My problem is that Kanaya is that she never seemed to have any flaws. Especially when compared to the other Trolls.

Vriska was egotistical, Karkat hated himself, Tavros was a wimp with low self-esteem, etc.

>>87394965
Kanaya was gay

>>87394889

Trickster Arc was a transparent way for someone who'd written themselves into a corner to get the characters onto their quest slabs and out of current predicaments.

Remember when the Warhammer of Zillyhoo actually felt like an important weapon?

>>87394965

Kanaya was too passively nice and helpful - Remember, while these seem like positive traits in human society, they're huge negatives in troll society. She gave Eridan the tools to kill Feferi and functionally snuff out their society, because she refused to see the bad in people.

>>87394995
>Trickster Arc was a transparent way for someone who'd written themselves into a corner to get the characters onto their quest slabs and out of current predicaments.
It also established the power of the JuJu. Also, fucking hilarious.

>Remember when the Warhammer of Zillyhoo actually felt like an important weapon?
It was always a joke from the start.

>>87395048

It was hilarious in the same way Ghostbusters 2016 was hilarious. so random ecks dee

>>87392485
There must always be a Mary Sue in Hussie's narrative structure.

Jade => Vriska => Meenah => Vriska

Notice when one was important, the other became utterly irrelevant.

>>87394995
>Remember when the Warhammer of Zillyhoo actually felt like an important weapon?
Right up until john made a better one?

>>87395048

>establishes the power of the juju

The Juju that... Never reappeared and was never used again? Such power.

>>87395137
Someone get the bug zapper.

>>87394965
>Karkat hated himself
Does he? Keep in mind he shoves all his faults to his past versions.

When Karkat joins the ghost army, he shittalked hard at Nepeta, Eridan, Equius and his doomed versions.

>>87394865
>toby had less problems than hussie
Truly this a beautiful day.

What was it that made the story so good while it was good?

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>>87395022

But does the story or characters ever call her out on this? From what I can recall Eridan is assigned full blame of the incident.

Plus she becomes a lot less nice and passive immediately after Murderstuck which leaves her character with nowhere to go.

So out of all females, which would you fug and which would you marry? I guess polygamy is fair game, but don't overkill. Harems NEVER end up well/

>>87395759
Fug Jade, Rose, Jane, Terezi, Meenah,and Vriska
Marry Jade or Vriska
I'm a masochist okay?

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> Shadow Aspects, aka Aspects as Qliphoth
> Qliphoth; metaphorical "shells" surrounding holiness in Jewish Mysticism.
> Each shadow aspect has a related class.
>[Aspect], [Qlipha], [Desc]. [Class], [Demons]
>Time, Thamiel, represents the duality that goes against the unity of God. Players are responsible for managing the two timelines A and B (they need to work together due to shortage of shadow aspects). Class: Adversary, Satan and Moloch.
Breath, Ghagiel, Players control corrupted, polluted air, 'lord of the flies'. Class: Hinderer, Beelzebub.
Light, Satariel, the 'Dark' shadowy aspect; it conceals Light, darkness. Class: Concealer, Lucifuger.
Life, Agshekeloh, more concrete than the former triad, misguided and imbalanced love which exhausts and ultimately suffocates its object, those who waste the substance and thought of creation. Class: Breaker, Astaroth/Astarte.
Blood, Golohab, stands for mercilessness, fire and the punitive side of hell, biased judgement, unrighteousness. Class: Burner, Asmodai.
Mind, Tagiriron, stand against the beauty of Tiphereth [Mind], also hell's juridical process. Class: Disputer, Belphagor.
Hope, Oreb Zaraq, associated with ravens and unbalanced raw emotions. Class: Disperser, Baal.
Rage, Samael, represents madness; corruption of patterns, trickster gods. Class: Deceiver, Adramelech.
Heart, Gamaliel, dark side of the dream plane, nightmares. Class: Obscene, Lilith.
Space, Lilith, the dark sides of the material plane and dream planes. Class: Queen, Naamah.
Void, Abyss, related to the trickster demon Choronzon. Class: Shapeshifter.

>>87395855
You could and should drop the aspect shit and use the rest of this to make your own "aspects" for your own story.

>>87395855
What is this even?
]I shall give you dis pear.

>>87392485
Yep

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Is Karkat a good character?

>>87396405
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N44HFjmaP5w
Maybe.

Is he worse than post-retcon Vriska?

>>87396243
My OC

>>87396405
He's barely a character

>>87396476
Yes

>post-retcon Vriska gets to shit on her dyke version
>post-retcon Karkat doesn't shit on pre-retcon Karkat for being an obsessed Karezifag and turboloser

>>87392485
What if I told you that every female character in the comic was a mary sue?

>>87396784
>>87396784
If every character is a mary sue, are any of them still Mary Sues?

>>87396709
>>post-retcon Karkat doesn't shit on pre-retcon Karkat for being an obsessed Karezifag and turboloser

And then (Karkat) would have shit on him for running his mouth about stuff he never experienced, and ultimately having accomplished nothing at all but getting knocked out by Kanaya, while he at least died a noble death for someone else.

And that's still more than whatever Karkat ended up doing.

>>87396855
shouldn't you be fucking your pencil-thin assistant, syndrome

>>87396855
Yes, it's just that the story because a farce.

>>87396784
Even rose?

>>87395137
iwftb

>>87396723
How do you pronounce 'Kanaya'?

>>87396981
cuh-NIGH-uh

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>>87396952
Do not sexualize the baby!

>>87396937
Post retcon yeah? Without the alcohalisn she has no flaws and isnt called out for bot playing the rain or ever doing so. Instead she does nothing and gets to marry the troll that had a crush on her since she was 13 and then have hot pseudo incest sex with said wife

Honestly, Jade was more of a plot device than a Mary Sue. Then everything she used as an advantage fell apart and she had to actually confront her issues and develop a character arc, and then she became utterly irrelevant just like everyone else.

>>87397090
>r/homestuck

hahahahha FUCK no

>>87397090
>obvious link to reddit
I ain't clicking that shit nigga

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>>87397090
>Reddit
Get the fuck out

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>>87392485
I liked her until Act 6. Jesus Christ.

And no; she wasn't a "deconstruction" or a "parody" of Mary Sues, either. That was Vriska. Hussie had never even heard of the concept until people complained about Jade being one, which was a typical case of "nobody knows what a Mary Sue is and are extra judgemental of female characters" in action.

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>>87397113
>>87397126
>>87397158
>mfw reddit will NEVER EVER be apart of the metastuck session

>>87397034
What would have fulfilling her quest accomplished?

Weird how both Dave and Rose seem to shy away from personal growth, which is what the quest is designed for, tailor made even.

I get that you perhaps don't want to follow an entity that expects you as it shaped itself for you, but then at least seek personal growth somewhere else. That didn't happen. Rose just spend time with Kanaya and Dave seemed to have gotten weird due to the people surrounding him.

>>87397190
Reddit can get fucking meteor'd, they're not getting in

>>87397187
literally the worst mary sue chart ever 0/5 go kill yourself

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>>87397043
>Honestly, Jade was more of a plot device than a Mary Sue. Then everything she used as an advantage fell apart and then she became utterly irrelevant just like everyone else.
ftfy

>>87397353
Why is Jade so cute___

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>>87397383
she's the realest most kawaii nigga on the streets

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today I will remind them

>>87397482
Is /hst/ the MSPA reader after his botched suicide?

>>87397535
/hst/ is /hsg/ after coming up declaring he's bi and then actually experiencing anal sex

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>>87397535
/hst/ is the crippled and mentally retarded shell of what's left of /HSG/ after "the accident"

don't stare, it's rude

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What would kissing a troll feel like?

>>87397600
HSG was always bi
/hst/ is more against gay shit actually

>>87397648
/hsg/ died from a protracted bout with cancer, and was emaciated and not lucid. The revival brought him more health then he had seen in years.

>>87397423
why john looks more like a girl than jade on that picture

>>87397353
She made the Duttle, though.

>>87397482
who is the fucking owl again

>>87397773
Softowl. Hussie's shitty girlfriend.

>>87397788
And then he got a shittier girlfriend
Someone we thought was one of us

>>87397818
T H I C C
is there more

>>87396891
>implying Hussie won't subvert it by having Karkat keep repeating the "Alive = Winner, Dead = Loser" argument

>>87397834
I have no idea, but I hope so

>>87397797
Why is piggy so hated? Why do people think she's the source of davekat when she wrote stridercest fics?

>>87397854
If there's Aradia there I'd be happy. I like Aradia.

>>87397900
I told you
We thought she was one of us
Betrayal breeds contempt
We think she's the source of davekat because she is
She convinced Hussie to make it canon
We know this

>>87397900
Were you not here for her screaming Davekat was canon again and again for it only to never be actually confirmed in canon?

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>>87397773
halftruth/softowl/rachel/vapid cunt/Hussie's Yoko Ono

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>>87397915
>We think she's the source of davekat
we know

>>87397818
>Topless Vriska
>Vriska's cannon big tits
And that's why they're all looking at her and not blind girl ass

>>87398048
No thats piggy. Homestuck was still good when he was with halfcunt the vapid truth

>>87398165
What's the purpose of troll breasts again

>>87397915
She only ever claimed she is.

The worst part was her being an obnoxious attention whore.

>>87398198
Venom sacks

Being a Cuckold is what drove hussie down into the girthy depths

>>87392687
Either NATO or Chaos.

Johnrezi should be endgame.

>>87398198
My head canon is that Caliborn SOMEHOW fucked with their evolution so troll tits would be a thing just so the females would look more like the ones in his how to draw anime book

>>87398193
Homestuck hasn't been good since Inappropriate Time for Ham ended.

>>87398265
It IS endgame

>>87395075
Way funnier than this.
>>87395096
Jujus in general.

>>87393273
Totally agree except Jake should try the Aranea part

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Vriska fighting Terezi mod when?

I can't fucking edit images right now, it's impossible without an actual mouse since numpad mouse can do only so much. Pretend it's Terezi in place of Sans and the player's name is VRISKA (it can be considering it's 6 letters)

>>87398321
>implying
Face it, John is alone and Terezi ends up with Vriska and makes ScourgeCEST canon.

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Reminder that John's sole reasons for wanting to fight and murder Caliborn is because he wrote shitty fanficion and threatened a bunny

>>87398394
>John ends up alone
>Cucked by snek
My dreams of JohnVris have at least snowball's chance in hell of being cannon compliant once more!
Though seriously, you know JohnVris shippers are going to take him being single and the bit of him asking about Terezi's progress as some sort of sign

>>87398470
Those are perfectly valid reasons

>>87398470
In all fairness with the destruction of the earth, John might have thought he was finally free of shitty fanfics
Little does he know, he stars in so many shitty fanfics, SO MANY

>>87398394
>>87398321
At least no matter our preference, we can all enter our mutually exclusive states of denial together, as a community.

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>>87398470
John is the hero we need

>>87398498
But he just didn't KNOW he was gay and in love with Dave!

>>87398556
>ohhhh. is that what a penis looks like?
>i guess gays aren't that bad.

I finally found Karkat's perfect romance partner!

Look at this pic!

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>>87398556
>>87398614
>John "Smash Pound Put A Fag In The Ground" Egbert
>Being gay
You people are delusional

>>87398652
You forgot to post a picture,

>>87392613
But that's true. Calling a character in an original work a Mary sue us pointless. Just call them poorly written.

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>>87398652
There's no- Oh. I see

>>87398470
>Epilouge is masterpiece done well as well as final le fight
I'd be hyped

>>87398772
Don't even bother. It's just gonna be Vriska showing up AS USUAL and one shotting Caliborn/LE AT THE SAME TIME then everyone will suck her bulge for sixty panels straight saying how thankful they are she was there and how awesome she is

>>87398772
I would kill for a big, a long, complex, absurd and creative final battle done not through an animation, just panels.

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>>87398321
I wish

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>>87395155
>Karkat shittalked hard at Equius

I think he was flustered more than anything

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>>87397752
Probably supposed to be some kind of Ftm tranny. You know how tumblr is.

>>87393957
>Bec Noir about to fight PM
It's funny how this describes basically half of the entire comic.

>>87398966
It looks like a muppet

>>87399000
god Fef is so cute why didn't they let her be an actual character?

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>>87398966
There's a new Tereziman in town.

>>87392534
>dhmk fight

Oh yeah, clearly.

>>87399147
I'm still so mad that shit never got brought up again

>>87398614
John lived with Jade for three years, I'm sure he's seen plenty of penises.

Why didn't Caliborn win? He was hands down not only the best thing about post-Act 5 Homestuck, he was the best character Hussie ever wrote.

i like the jade /hst/ came up with more. but at this point hussie forgot his own characters anyway, so...

>>87399407
He did win where it counts. He's been able to do everything he wants to do for countless eons. His defeat was offscreen and currently inconclusive.

>>87399440
Fanon Jade is a lonely overly horny racist who desperately wants Dave to love her and has trouble being around people because she's that fucked up.

Between John and Dave who is more alpha
1) by the end of Act 5 Act 2?
2) by the of the comic?

>>87399445
I'll accept that. He gets it better than half the cast anyway.

>>87399523
Exactly.
Half-crazed feral depressive doggirl is better than what Hussie came up with

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>>87399351

>>87399351
Jade's extensive dildo collection doesn't count, no matter how many times John was forced to take the tour.

>>87392687
It's the beam from a flashlight pointed at the viewer.

How can we redeem Karkat

even if he doesn't end up with dave and wins the jadebowl or fucking vriska marries him

what will shipping even do when he is still worthless?

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>>87399557

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>>87399684

>>87399684
Make him the actual troll king. Dave and Jade go off to some nice quiet retreat to have babies and make funky jams or whatever, and become irrelevant to him beyond friends.
Have him actually DO something, don't make him an accessory to the main characters.

>>87399684
He gets his own cooking show.

>>87399627
Was John forced to buy something from the Dildo Gift Shop?

>>87399627
>those air drops we saw Jade getting aren't usually mail, they're crates of sex toys
>thanks to grandpa ordering things like iron man suits and mummies, nobody questions it

>>87399751
Worse, Jade got him an annual pass for his birthday.
And then when the new universe came along he thought he'd be free of that shit.
Turns out Jade not only transplanted it, but three years alone meant that she alchemized a bunch more, so now it replaced the fucking Smithsonian. Every summer he's dragged there. The curators actually recognize him.

Where can i see the halloween snaps?

>>87399799
>entire section where she alchemized toys based off her friends

>>87399845
Google homestuck snapchat and click the first tumblr link.

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>>87399684
>or fucking vriska marries him

>>87399799
does she name them all?
are any named after him?

>>87399889
if you combine "fetus in a jar" with a photo of Dave's crotch, you get "Dave's penis in a jar"

>>87399930
Every single one is named, catalogued, and used at least twice.
John's gotten used to it finally when he notices a crowd around a moderately sized blue one named that looks suspiciously familiar.
Turns out he shouldn't have left his underwear behind. Dave finds this amusing until John shows him the entire Strider section.

>>87399919
w-what happened to karkat

>>87399949
DOes she show it to Dave and remind him that he's replaceable?

>>87392751
>Why are fangirls so slutty?

>>87400052
>Implying she didn't just send him a pic of her and said jar along with the message he's been replaced
>Implying she doesn't remind him every couple of months

>>87400052
>>87400146
Stop that, Jade likes Dave for more than just his penis! Jade likes Dave for his wonderful personality!

>>87400158
She can have both, the dick in a jar for the penis, Dave for being Dave

Hell, a few good alchemization picks and the dick in a jar will be far better than Dave's ever could!

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>>87400213
>"Dave's knoty penis in a jar"

>>87400213
But the jardick can't get her pregnant or make her breakfast or pet her and call her a good dog after a long night of sweet, gentle coitus.
And you can't dress it up in a sexy catboy outfit.

>>87392485
I think that jade being a mary sue for the first few acts was actually necessary to her character development. It was all in order for prospit to be destroyed and her to become completely lost and depressed. A fall from grace, if you will.

Knowing everything to knowing absolutely nothing. That shit hit me hard when I was reading this. The colorful reminders being trashed is also representative of this

>>87400427
>But the jardick can't get her pregnant
After the 2nd or 3rd alchimization it can

>make her breakfast or pet her and call her a good dog after a long night of sweet, gentle coitus.
She still has Dave for that

>And you can't dress it up in a sexy catboy outfit.
...Somehow I can see Jade dressing up a dick with kitty ears

>>87400459
Maybe if Hussie had actually handled Jade well Dave's reminder on her finger at the end might have had impact beyond being superficially cute.

>>87400459
>colorful reminders
remember when these were a thing

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>>87400488
At the end of Act 5 everyone basically concluded their arcs, minus meeting their guardians. Hussie had to stretch that shit out and everyone suffered.

>>87400525
Yes we remember Collide

>>87400531
Where are John's legs in that picture?

>>87400557
You can clearly see them to the left f Dave

>>87400531
>Hussie had to stretch
>had to

Did he, though?

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>>87400606
What he didn't have to do is make Act 6 as long as it was, but since he did, he had to stretch out the kid's arcs to compensate for the stupid length.

>>87400580
My bad, I think I thought those were jade's somehow

Jade died

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>>87400531
>Hussie had to stretch that shit out and everyone suffered.
You mean how he stretched out act 5 with the trolls?

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>>87392775
Again with this shit?

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>>87400733
Act 5 was good.

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>>87400464
>...Somehow I can see Jade dressing up a dick with kitty ears

You know that just isn't the same.

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>Halloween snapchats

Man these are cute.

Which is all I can ask from Homestuck at this point, since the story shit itself so badly that characters being "good" or not is a totally irrelevant notion.

But man, they're REALLY cute.

>>87400488
She was wearing Dave's reminder? John's was originally the one she kept.

>>87400990
>She was wearing Dave's reminder?

Yeah, all through collide. You can see the red string in the Heir of Grief portion.

Wow, an entire thread without posting honey select, I'm surprised you got your boners under control.

>>87400733
but then we wouldn't establish that vriska is a really huge 8itch. it's totally important to her arc

Soon Dave will end up in the basement next to Jade Troll and the sack of potatoes. Only to be taken out when Jade needs warmth or company.

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>>87400897
Remember how the quadrants were supposed to be a joke making fun of tumblr shipping scum and not be taken seriously in the comic?

>>87401053
>honey select
why is it called that again

if I didn't know what it is I'd think it's a bee simulator or something

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>>87401053
night time is for boners anon

these are working hours

>>87401068
>Only to be taken out when Jade needs warmth or company.

That's ALL the time.

>>87401088
Japan.

>>87401088
honey moon simulator
you select your honey moonee

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>>87401095
>working hours
>mfw I am europe and it's midnight here

also dat jane

>>87401198
My only Homestuck related regret is that I did not save the pics from more porn/nudestuck blogs before they died

>>87401344
>nudestuck

You mean Homesmut?

>>87401095
Working on boners?

>>87401386
Either/or, I've heard it called both