How do we fix them?

>>87180493
Nothing. DC should just drop Hawkman like the worthless waste he is. Hawkgirl can stick around because she's hot.

>>87180529
but then how can I appear superior for liking less popular characters?

>>87180564
You have the rest of the JSA for that, my friend :^)

>>87180493
The reincarnation magic/alien thing always confused the fuck out of me. Though I do like the power couple thing, they do need an overhaul. Also remember that movie Legion? Kind of want something similar to the angel fighting if they ever get a movie appearance

>fucked up history
A meme that ignores that every capeshit character has a fucked up history.
>list of powers that changes every incarnation
Not even remotely true.
>people think they are useless
Only facebook tier normies think that.

It's a mistake to take them outside of Thanagar. That's the only place they are not outclassed by everyone.

>>87180727
It's really simple to understand anon.
>GA Hawks were reincarnated egyptians
>SA Hawks were aliens
Hawkworld is the only place it gets confusing.

>>87180783
>confirmed for never reading any Hawkman book

Go full STARGATE with it.

Long time a Thanagarian scout ship found our planet and created an outpost here. This outpost was in Egypt and there they basically created the whole Ancient Egyptian culture. Something then happened and the outpost was abandoned by Thanagar.

Since the Thanagarians had a technology were they recorded their memories (including feelings), the Thanagarians that ruled Ancient Egypt saved their life memories in something like it which was found by archaeologist Carter Hall.

When Carter Hall touched the thing he absorbed the memories of the ancient Thanagarian king, which made him believe that this alien king was him in a past life. Later on he found a woman that he thought was his alien queen reincarnated also and stalked the shit out of her. Together they became heroes for awhile using the thanagarians technology he had excavated.

Years after Carter managed to establish contact with Thanagar and the Thanagar then send Katar Hol as an emissary/expy to valuated the long abandoned outpost. Katar became friends with Carter, who helped Katar acclimate himself. Katar then slowly began prepping the planet for an invasion.

Either way have Carter die and Katar later having to redeem himself as hero for the failed invasion.

>>87180493
Just do a Hawkworld Rebirth book and have DC commit that this will be the cannon origin until their company wide continuity changes

What's so wrong about having the space cops be part of the reincarnation cycle?

>>87180828
>slowly began prepping the planet for an invasion.
This element doesn't work while the JL exists

>>87180493
Really they just need to pick one story and stick with it:

Either they're constatly reincarnating Egyptian lovers, or they're aliens. Stop trying to make them be both at the same time.

>>87181138

Right?

>>87181164

Why not aliens that reincarnated into humans?

>>87180735
>Not even remotely true.
Okay, find me a character with a more convoluted history.

Your fanfiction does not count.

>>87181206
>Donna Troy
Fuck you.

The current mini being published is the Death of Hawkman. That seems like a good solution.

>>87180828
There are things here I like. Mostly the Stargate tech being involved with their reincarnation.

>>87181206
Donna Troy has the most convoluted history of any comic character ever. Cable is second. Hawkman is third.

This is an indisputable established fact.

>>87181152

Just do it like the cartoons.

Katar Hol, with Carter's research show to the world that Thanagar and Earth was always tight as shit since Thanagar helped carve a piece of our culture, and that now both planets should be tighter than ever because there's a huge force in space trying to overtake the galaxy, Thanagar and Earth included. So Earth's governments start to strike deals with Thanagar and shit slowly. Everything seems fine and dandy, but then Adam Strange show up saying that the Thanagarians are full of bullshit and that they're the ones slowly taking a bunch of planets. That Rann was one of the many planets conquered by Thanagar.

Boom. Major event right there.

>>87181164
Problem is that each new writer that gets on the book has a favorite and they shift everything over to their favorite.

Johns loves the golden age Carter so he killed off Katar and everything related to him and then made claims that it was reincarnating Carter all along. Then Starlin came up with the "He is really Katar all along and is just insane" only for him to go Carter again, then the next guy wanted Katar.....

Every writer loves one and then has to spite kill the other, And when they are replaced the new writers does the same damn thing.

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>>87181234
One retcon in her entire run, try again and this time do it right casualfag

>>87181278
>Jean Grey is worse
>What is the JSA
>What is the Spectre
>What is the Silver Scarab
>What is Ice

is this your first time reading a wiki about comics anon? Why not try reading a comic first before we attempt pretending we know something.

>>87181347
Tell me her origin anon.

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>>87181347
>>87181408

>>87181408

.....no he's right. what are you talking about? Jean Grey, JSA that shit is simple.

>>87181138
The beauty of the alien origin is the simplicity. Mixing in the reincarnation stuff is the most convoluted option and you might as well just stick with plain Egypt Hawks that are only a little weird.

Also I want both Hawkgirls. They're much more different characters than the Hawkmen.

I'm laughing really hard at dudes acting like Donna Troy makes sense.

They needed a Wonder Girl for Teen Titans and took one off the cover of a Wonder Woman issue without knowing that it was a flashback story, not Wonder Woman's sidekick

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>>87181521
And here's one that's more relevant to the original thread topic.

>>87181275

I just like the idea of aliens raising the pyramids and ruling Ancient Egypt, with everything we know the about Ancient Egypt, its history and culture, being things taken straight out of Thanagar's own culture.

Then Carter find this all out, but because his mind was so overwhelmed by the tech recording the life of the alien king, who was actually this emissary from an alien that simple set out an outpost on our planet, and started to believe that he was the alien king reincarnated, all his research was discredited because of his weird behavior and beliefs. So Carter hides all the tech, not wanting to expose his findings in anger, while slowly working a way to contact Thanagar in hopes to prove the world the truth.

But by doing that he brings Katar, who came to access the planet (and the old outpost) and make the way for the planet to be reconquered by Thanagar.

>>87180493
They were perfect during Brightest Day. Especially at the end.

Just use whatever origin and story you feel like using at the time, and have time get all wobbly whenever you try to talk about it

I actually like the Thanagar flying cities idea. And the caste system based on being able to fly or not.

>>87180493
>By having Carter from golden age reincarnate to fight along side Katar with a different name, like Ra or Minha or some other hawk god, i cant remember if theres a specific one
>Have them team up

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>>87180493
One easy peasy step, stop treating all the Hawkmen as the same person.

>Fucked up history
No worse than most. They were at worst merged together for less time than when Superman was two blue and red electric guys.

>powers changes every incarnation
Different people

>>87181408
How are Jean Grey or the JSA worse, you little spaz?

>>87180493
It works just fine, if you fix them normies would start liking them and then you wouldn't be able to enjoy them anymore.

I have a few questions about the Hawks
>How fast can they fly?
>How strong/durable are they?
>Are their wings bulletproof or fragile?
>Do you prefer Hawkman or Hawkgirl?

>>87181822
IIRC, Jean Grey was retconned to have been placed in stasis by the Phoenix and never been the Dark Phoenix, then was dead, then she came back again, then she died again, now a time-travelling version of her fifteen year old self is running around.

Also the real winner for convoluted backstory is Bart Allen, whose parents never existed.

>>87181808
>>87181808
I'd stick with aliens in Ancient Egypt who are reincarnating. We rarely get anything involving magic that isn't Earth-based. I'd remove the connections to other historical DC characters though.

>>87182129
Speed of plot.
Luke Cage-tier with some durability traded for a limited healing factor.
No and no.
Both are fine.

>>87182197
So Carter is a human with a soul from Thanagar...?
I'm only really versed in Hawkworld here and still need to finish it, I know the tech connection and Katar being named afer Carter because he was his dad's bro but i Don't know whee the soul thing comes in.

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If the current DC editors and writers have such a boner for the silver age why not reboot the hawks to their silver age selves where they're from space and nothing else?

>>87182197
>I'd stick with aliens in Ancient Egypt who are reincarnating. We rarely get anything involving magic that isn't Earth-based.
I agree with this

>I'd remove the connections to other historical DC characters though
disagree with that though, indeed I'd expand upon it even further

>>87180493

Bring back Kendra. Give them a power boost.

>>87182129
>60 mph tops mostly, in Johns series it took Carter a while to get across St Roche.
>Not very, 1K lbs maybe, but they are not bulletproof and Carter gets slashed pretty often. He just heals from it quickly.
>Not bulletproof, kind of durable, but Kendra's did catch on fire once
>Hawkgirl bviously

>>87182357
I think they should just go ahead and do this already. Just make a new bird winged guy and go with it.

They replaced the hawks with an angel back in the 90's to get a bird guy that was on the Supers/Flash/GL level. It just did not stick.

>>87180493
Are they not useless?

>>87182562
They can hurt ghosts

>>87182357
>The current
You new to DC?
The silver age never ended, it just sobered up but didn't take the lampshade off it's head or put a shirt on.

>>87180493
Every time somebody tries to fix him hey make everything worse.

Just use the ancient aliens thing from the cartoon and say both origins are true, and leave it be.

>>87182434
I don't think it adds anything to Nighthawk and Cinnamon or Silent Knight and kinda restricts them.

>>87182305
Only in some continuities.

>>87180783
wut

The Hawks are strong as fuck

>>87182629
That's a fucking cool ass power. How do I get into the hawks?

More specifically Hawkgirl

>>87182357
>>87182550
Nu52 Hawkman was Katar Hol using Carter Hall as an alias while on Earth.

>>87180493
Have Garth Ennis write for him.
For real. Just to that whole undercover military agent thing from Justice League and make him a military minded trained killer trying to infiltrate a bunch of colorfully dressed self appointed guardians of earth so he can ascertain whether or not they pose a threat to his government and the galaxy at large. Keep it as cynical and petty as the rest of Ennis's cape stuff, but from the perspective of Hawkman himself; who constantly expresses open contempt towards almost everyone he meets, and has to constantly hold himself back from actually killing anyone.

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Just make Hawkman a badass sci-fi flying barbarian. Buff the shit out of his Nth metal capabilities so that he's not just Winged Mace-Man. Stop with the stupid cuck shit with Hawkgirl leaving him for other men and have him moping around like a lovesick puppy while she's sucking off anyone who'll eye-fuck her.

>>87182562

Their maces are gravity powered. When they hit somebody with them they are hitting them with the planet's gravitational fields. Also their gear is made of a metal that can hurt ghosts.

They're like reincarnating ghostbusting space warriors.

>>87182780
Only if the first issue ends with Martian Manhunter looking him right in the eye and saying, "I heard you were talking shit about me."

Really though, if you're going to do that just use one of the dozen or so superheroes that have a military background.

>>87182780
That's....actually not a bad idea.

>>87182724
... I'm way more of a Katar fan, but I don't know how I feel about this.
Does this mean no more Carter because the major events of nu52 happened in more or less the same timeline before rebirth starts?

>>87182872
Mixed with Judge Dredd

>>87182872
Recommended trades? Sounds comfy

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>>87182724
the Savage Hawkman was a good idea given to the wrong people

>>87183076

>the Savage Hawkman was a good idea given to the wrong people

You mean the wrong person

>>87180493
Do the same thing the JL cartoon did but eliminate the love shit between HawkGirl and HawkMan by either:

- Deleting him
- Making him evil

>>87181206
Go Wikipedia any major character, especially Marvel characters. Spider-Man has probably the most convoluted and inconsistent history of any comic character (save the X-Men but that was intentional) but nobody ever criticizes him for that.

Welcome to comics, when you have many different people writing the same characters over 75 years you tend to get some bad stuff mixed in with the good. Sometimes it's later retconned, sometimes it's erased with events, and sometimes it's just ignored and everyone pretends it never happened.

>>87181295
Fuck the cartoons. Johns cleaned everything up nice and neat and combined all the elements people love. The only problem is they gave the New 52 Hawkman to fucking Liefeld and he did his own stupid thing.

>>87183008
Once again some kind of event screws with Hawkman.

>>87182796
Go further and make him flying He-Man with all the ridiculous Eternia weapons and vehicles.

>>87182872
>Their maces are gravity powered. When they hit somebody with them they are hitting them with the planet's gravitational fields

No they are not, they are plain old ordinary maces. You are describing the Claw of Horus.

>>87182909
Except for the whole stone cold assassin thing, thats not muh Katar. I like him with that sense of nievety he had in Hawkworld, he tended to give people the benifit of the doubt but if they ever crossed him he turned their face into mulch.

>>87183194
Yeah, but if they did that all we'd get is like 30 Hath-Set variations and not a single Shadow Thief action figure.

>>87183431
>Shadow Thief
wasn't he an edgelord after nu52?

>>87180529
I think he was cool as part of the JLA in n52

>>87183875
Pretty sure he was a she after Nu52.

>>87183128
>Evil hawkman
No fuck off. That's what the entire race of Thanagarians is for.

>>87184450
Actually on both points fuck off, you're an idiot.

>>87183431
If we get a skull faces Byth with a magic staff then it will be worth it.

>>87180493
I really like the Egyptian reincarnation angle, especially the hundreds of lifetimes of experience and knowledge that they can draw on

And connecting their time in Ancient Egypt to other DC characters like Black Adam and Isis in Bialya, the Reach and Blue Beetle, Doctor Fate, maybe a precursor to Ragman to protect the enslaved Jews of Egypt, etc

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Make hawkman half native american again so that he has a human element.
Bring in Hawkgirl as a thanagarian officer sent to retrieve hawkman's father's equipment.
hawkman learns more about thanagar
hawkgirl learns more about earth
Put more emphasis on the power of Nth metal
have them, and all thanagarians, be a huge threat to the lanterns because Nth metal easily shatters constructs

noir detectives. that have constant flash backs to their hundreds of past lives.

>>87181206
Morpheus

>>87180493
I never understood why they just didnt make it so the space alien versions of them were just another re-encarnation of the magic hawks.

>>87181267
Is it any good?

>>87189543
one issue in, real good so far

>>87180493
Just stop fucking trying already. It's been 75 Goddamn years now and still nobody cares about Hawkman.

>>87180493

Hawkman is not salvageable. Hawkgirl works best in teams.

The notion that anyone would consider just having Hawkman, or just having Hawkgirl, is nuts to me. They work together, not apart. Like you're looking for the angle and skipping over the angle they do have.

I'd have them come from Thanagar. I'd basically keep their initial Hawkworld characterizations because those are really good on both sides. If it's just a mini, I'd take a bunch of single issue one shots about their reincarnations.

>>87181408
>any of those
>more convoluted than Donna Troy, Hawkman or Cable
You're the epitome of retardation.

>>87181408
Unless you're suffering from down syndrome, how is Spectre convulted?

>>87181408
>g-guys it's not that bad really, see these other properties are just as convoluted!

Even if that were true, the fact that people still care about most of these properties anyway goes to show just how worse off Hawkman is.

>>87180828
>>87181138

CW-verse explained it by making a Thanagarian weapon crash into ancient Egypt giving them their powers and reincarnation

Honestly, I think Hawkman and Hawkgirl's fundamental issue is that the basic concept is so convoluted. You can't have them be both Thanagarian cops as well as a reincarnated Egyptian royals who are fated to forever go through the cycle of regain their memories, fall in love and the die again at the hands of Hath-Set while also happen to be all the versions of Hawkman and Hawkgirl in the DCEU. It's too much. Simplicity is the key. Pick one version and stick with it, it helps to ground the characters. Hawkworld had the right idea, it decided to just make Katar and Shayera be space cops on a diplomatic mission to Earth and stuck with that, until the retcons and efforts of trying to make everything about the old continuity still kinda remain canon started. If you want JSA to have had a Hawkman, then make it distinctively different from the modern day ones. No convenient reincarnation shit.

Also, stop trying to make Nth metal into something that can literally do anything the plot calls for. The current idea that it's a symbiote type thing that gives Katar weapons is retarded and makes him heal super-fast, just... no. It's a space mineral that makes things defy gravity and the ability to fly.

>>87181639

Problem is Black Adam

They should just wind back the continuity to pre crisis days, when there were no continuity fuckups, no shitty editorial mismanagement and actual good stories.

>>87181138
They're on a different planet.

>>87180735
>A meme that ignores that every capeshit character has a fucked up history.
As a person who hasnt read anything with them but did read that pic, I agree, it´s not THAT confusing.

>>87181408
>What is the Spectre
what
specter is fucking simple

>>87192952
It's not really confusign just...convoluted. Like this guy said >>87192780
tackles too many things and tries to make everything canon when it shouldn't. It's like, their backstory is easy to follow but it's needlessly long.

>>87181267
i still dont see why they changed the name there was nothing wrong with hawkman and adam strange: out of time

>>87192910
Why would souls be confined to one planet in a universe where multiple planets with intelligent life exist?

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>>87190161
beside the hawks how many other wife and husband superhero duos can you name?
Being a couple is part of their gimmick

>>87193009
To get better sales, I guess...