ITT: Panels that would be 'problematic' in 2016

>>87003882
I think OP meant unedited panels that would be problematic.

Camelot 3000 and Sir Tristan.

>>87003782
I mean by all fairness this page is meant to be problematic, Jane as a whole is meant to be problematic. Writers and fiction has always dealt with the problematic because it's a good place to deal with it.

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>>87003981

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>>87003782
You know which one.

>>87004032
shhhh, youre ruining their meme

>>87003782
>Says she's hurting herself
>Clearly enjoying it

I don't get this guy.

>>87004976
uh...context?

lol

He meant she's doing harm to her body obviously.

So this thread is about things that hypothetically could make some people you don't know upset, but won't because they came out a long time ago and these people are not going to read them.

Why are you so fucking obsessed with them? You are making yourself angry on purpose by imagining impossible scenarios where people you don't like would react in a way you disagree with.

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>>87005028
Are they? Neil wrote a pro-Trans comic they called problematic, Ennis made a story about murdering rapists and slavers and they chose to have issue when Frank decided to turn their fucked up logic on one of the leaders because she was a chick.

>>87005131
I think they've come to terms with that long ago.

>>87003882
I fucking cringed when they used the (unedited) version of this in the movie.

I don't see how anyone could say this without realizing how retarded it sounds.

>>87005177
Because it's Cap and it's right.

>>87005169
Who's they?

>>87005191
>You're automatically right about everything as long as you're stubborn enough about it

Sounds like most people here.

>>87005169
>Frank decided to turn their fucked up logic on one of the leaders because she was a chick.
Did he rape her?

>>87005231
BATMAN, FRANK DID WHAT WAS NEEDED WHY CAN'T YOU?

>>87005231
Nah just slammed her against an unbreakable window until the pane gave out.
>>87005201
Other douchebags on internet forums and imageboards.

>>87005169
>their fucked up logic
Whose logic? Because if we're talking about killing rapists then that just normal punisher logic.

>>87005206
Yes that's what America was founded on.

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>>87005287

>>87005170
>unironically frogposting
>durr everyone who disagrees with me or calls me on my faggotry is from one website so I never have to listen to what they say
Please take a day away from the internet to reflect on how fucking retarded you look right now. Break down your actions to the simplest terms, break down what you hate about Tumblr to their simplest terms, and compare the two. Odds are the two lists will have a lot in common. You're a self-victimizing loon who spends all his time getting upset about imagined transgressions from a monolithic group who you believe stand for everything you specifically stand against. Sound familiar? Does that sound rational to you at all? Consider why you're wasting your time being upset when you could be doing things you actually enjoy. You're addicted to being angry because it makes you feel superior to hypothetical people and you can easily displace all of your problems onto this boogeyman group instead of facing the reality that you are in a hell you created for yourself. You can either use this as an opportunity to think about why you're so unhappy and what you can do to fix it, or you can post another meme and tell yourself "everyone else is wrong except me" and go on with your delusional behavior. I'm expecting the latter, but it's your choice.

>>87005206
>no matter how many people try to reason with you or try to discuss a compromise or how much evidence against your belief is show to you, never back down on your stance and continue to double down and stand in the way of anyone who doesn't agree 100% with you, even if you're literally the only one who believes it

Basically 4chan.

>>87005078
Hank Pym is the best villain

>>87005446
Seriously, why wouldn't Cap just give up his and others rights? I'm sure Tony would've been reasonable eventually. I mean all the propaganda and paranoid government was pretty against him too, why wouldn't he just be reasonable?

>>87005401
Anon maybe you should turn that reflection on yourself.

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>>87004032
>>87005169
I think in fairness "problematic" pages only happen if you are identifiable by the large masses and the scene has little in the ability to follow context
Pic related only caused an out cry because:
1.everyone knows Batgirl
2.everyone knows JokerGuess I should say "knows a joker" now
3.Only a small number (at that time) knew or read the killing Joke
This caused a media buzz because people were triggered at the bear national icon level of said heroine being put in a position that "implies assault" Anyone who read the killing Joke would look up and go "yeah and? That's the point" but to that fan girl of the cartoons, Mother of 3 that was exposed to the Adam West series Batgirl, random passer by this was "problematic" to them, and where it was a cover you couldn't find quick context. Frank smashing a woman into a unbreakable window over and over is hard to stir an outcry because in that same issue pages before we are show she has killed babies and was involved in the raping of children, mix in that Punshier has been show consistently in every media as an extreme no prisoners vigilante this is hard to object to or rather rally a complaint over. When compared to say the Joker where in the 90s up till 08 his most iconic appearance in media was a clown price of Crime and not the unstable killer the has been shown in the comics that can and will rape. An even better example of this is the Hydra Cap arc where again, anyone that has read comics any length take no issue but all the Chris Evans shit their pants and hit the comic industry is a monster for this.


tldr: Have Moon Knight beat a single mom that's a hooker? No one cares. Have Spider-man beat a villain that's a hooker? Everyone lose their mind.

>>87005488
>give up his rights

>>87005206
>>You're automatically right about everything as long as you're stubborn enough about it
Now you see why Captain America is so popular with everyone regardless of political aliment, age, race, gender and what not, he is the ultimate "I'm right, You're wrong, now fuck off" asshat that has ever been written in modern film/comics

>>87003882
/pol/. Go home. You're drunk.

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>>87005542
>bear national icon
fuck I meant near national icon

>>87005555
>Join our poorly run Superarmy or enjoy The GitMo Dimension
>No Trial

>>87003782
I think probably every panel of Sandman would be unpublishable if it first came out today.

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>>87005526
Let him cry.

>>87004626
>you can no longer publish the truth
Sad world we live in.

>>87004976
>busty and fit
Yes, please.

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Not so much this but the ending

>>87005327
considering all the mana it would take to play it, would that card actually be fair?

>>87005542
Batman has never really been the same since he found that dead hooker in a garbage bin.

Imagine how that would sound to somebody in the golden era, then take a moment to reflect that it is 100%, indisputably cannon that this actually happened and this comic was printed.

The minute I picked up that issue, I was like, "I'm fucking DONE with Batman. I'm never reading another Batman comic ever again."

BTAS GOAT WOOT WOOT!

>>87005882
pbbt, Lobo is a poonhound, a party animal. There is nothing untrue about guys like this existing and bimbos wanting to ride Lobo's cock cause hes a badass.

Real life allegory, fanservice, and true to character, let the feminists cry all they want.

>>87006225
No like I said the ending would probably be the real issue since he chooses a winner and says he loves her. Then she reveals she's a tranny, he's revulsed and walks off dejected into the sunset.

>>87005169
I generally don't like seeing superheroes torture people, it sets a really bad precedent. The fact that she is a woman is inconsequential.

>>87004976
I would reject this panel too.

The proportions are way off and the tits look like they are bolted on.

>>87003982
This. I just read it recently, it's great, but it would trigger so many fucking tumblr cucks it's not even funny.

>>87004943
That's pretty fucking gratuitous, and distracts from the dialogue.

>>87006255
>Lobo turns out to be a beta
What a twist.

>>87006225
>There is nothing untrue about guys like this existing and bimbos wanting to ride Lobo's cock cause hes a badass.
This kind of thinking contributes to rape culture and is incredibly problematic

>>87003782
No opinion on this, except to say this gives me a boner.

>>87006255
>Lobo doesn't want a trap

I always knew he was shit

>>87006345
Go fist your cunt

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>>87006264
Punisher's no superhero.

Pic related tho. Never get a jew mugga get told like this in today's limp-wristed liberal tumblrina sjw marvel.

>>87006255
Thats fucking hilarious.

Seems like a non issue. If you don't like cock, no one should be able to force you.

>>87006264
It's Punisher, he's a superhero on a technicality. And this is MAX the Punisher that makes 616 Punisher look like fucking Marvel Adventures.
>>87006287
To be fair in reality with muscles like that those tits would totally be bolt ons.

>>87006264
Frank is never intended to be seen as a hero, and he doesn't want you to think of him as a hero. He's the equivalent of a purge or trashman doing what no one sane would do for free.

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fedora tip: the thread!

>>87006255
What was it about the 90s in particular that made everyone obsessed with this one joke? I swear that shit was everywhere.

>>87006377
To be fair, that was before "mutant" became synonymous with "gay" in comic book culture. I don't know what bright bulb thought to stretch that particular metaphore like Cyclops anus at a Hellfire club disco party, but being a mutant used to be more about being "gifted" than it was about being "different".

>>87003882
>I am right, you are wrong no matter what

Can't get more American than that, I guess

>>87006477
I don't give a shit.

Teens and young adults read that crap. Its bad enough the guy basically shoots jaywalkers for crossing the street, I don't want kids getting any more bad ideas.

I don't like the punisher because he steps outside the law because he WANTS to, not because he has to.

>>87006579
Well that's freedom for you.

>>87003782
I think it was problematic back then as well.
Jane IS problematic, and it'll take much more than just a talk to fix things.
IF they can be fixed.

>>87006604
>kids even reading comicbooks
Almost 80% of the current market reading this shit are full grown adults and most times when Punisher does some of the most graphic and violent things, there's a mature readers warning, you're like the faggots who think playing any violent video game would lead them to shoot up their school or any place. You got brain problems.

>>87003882
Epic edit.

>>87004976
Is this shopped? Wasp doesn't have tits.

>>87006377
>That last panel.
Take your disgusting Japanese comics off my board!

>>87003782
This definitely needs a 18+ sticker on it. You know, unless you're selling it in germany or the netherlands.

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>>87003782

>>87006657
even worse, kids only see some random panel posted online where Punishere is cool killing people without any of the context behind it

>>87006604
This is bait right?

>>87006657
fine. manchildren then.

I don't want them influencing the voting public. Half these beardos still look up to Batman like he was a fucking firefighter.

punisher should come with r rating anyway. 18+

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>>87006749

>>87006698
This has been going on for over a decade, I don't see kids going out on the streets shooting at "criminals" and each other right now do you?

>>87005542
The cover wasn't problematic because it depicted assault but because it turned Batgirl into a sniveling victim.

>>87006641
Both redpilled faggots and SJWs are turning the word problematic into something synonymous with being bad and that's being dumb on both their parts.

>>87006720
So what's his family going to do in those five years when he's behind bars, and after when he gets out and is an ex-con hood rat?

>>87006377
There was a recent panel of Storm telling Magneto to fuck off after he compared their actions to concentration camps or something else tone deaf.

>>87006312
It's a comic book, it's not like you'll miss the dialog.

>>87006264
>Punisher
>superhero
I take it you don't read Punisher? Occasionally he does something good, but 90-95% of the time he's just killing criminals and gangsters. Hell, if I recall right that same run has him killing some kids pedo parents, then leaving the kids for CPS. Given the statistics, they will get molested or raped again in their new foster homes. Frank just kills bad guys, that doesn't make him a good guy. Dixon got that, Baron got that, Ennis even got it.

>>87007366
God dammit, whats with all the Punisher fags?

I'm saying having a mainstream comic where people jerk it to a cape torturing people is unhealthy, that the taboo against torture is a healthy taboo.

It doesn't further the story, it doesn't further the plot, it doesn't contribute to the hero's character development, its just pure, gratuitous torture, and its fucking sick.

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>>87006720
>Black guy
>My kids

>>87007363
Maybe i should have said the dialogue would distract from the cheesecake then.

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>>87006563
Daaaaammmmnn.

>>87007001
Boomers think that education can fix everything

>>87006788
>LISTEN HERE NIGGER.TIFF

>>87007612
yeah, they are fucking idiots.

They'd rather send you to a school that charges you 300 dollars for a textbook than let you spend the money.

NIT all the way. Fuck Nixon

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>>87007524

>>87007522
And violent videogames lead to mass murders.

If pretend violence triggers you, avoid media.

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Pretty much all the classic Vampirella.

>>87005446
>no matter how many people try to reason with you or try to discuss a compromise or how much evidence against your belief is show to you, never back down on your stance and continue to double down and stand in the way of anyone who doesn't agree 100% with you, even if you're literally the only one who believes it
Literally Tumblr.

>>87007522
Slap a 18+ at it and call it a day.

>>87006377
Red Skull chill as fuck

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Each and every panel that features a remotely sexy looking woman.

>>87003782
Only problematic in the US.
A land so free you don't really know what you're allowed to do.

>>87003782
Thanks Grant.
I fully sympathize with Pollack ret-conning her away.

Why is Gerard even bringing her back?


Also, per the "ITT"
That's one of Jane's personalities, not her actual default self.

She is not a healthy person and Cliff is trying to defuse the situation. It's only sjw boogeyman bait when it's posted out of context.

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This whole thing, Jesus. Times sure have changed, eh?

Imagine if this happened in a Marvel Comic in 2016

>>87005177
>>87005206
>>87005446
>if a lot of people, especially influential people, say something, it must be true!
That's a logical fallacy, you know.

>>87008066
THIS.

>>87008134
argumentum ad populum and argumentum ad verecundiam

>>87006377
Well there was that time in New X-Men Morrison had Magneto leading humans into ovens. Marvel retconned that shit FAAAAST.

>>87008108
DELET THIS

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>>87006142
No

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>>87005542
I think this controversy was bullshit for the same reason as the Manara Spider-Woman controversy was bullshit.

The reason? Those are VARIANT covers.

Variant covers aren't supposed to represent the specific comic issue, nor are they supposed to be how the issue is promoted to the average Joe Public. No one is forced to buy variant covers, or even look at them. They're completely optional and unrelated. They're a niche bonus product, essentially just bonus unrelated artwork that nerds can order and spend money on.

>>87003782
Back when men were men and comics were comics.

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>>87008108
Why must you do this to me, boner?

>>87008108
Americans are so pruddish. That's nothing you wouldn't see at a beach.

>>87008108
So is this John Byrne it Chris Claremont?

>>87008101
>That's one of Jane's personalities, not her actual default self.

Seeing that neither /co/ nor tumblr really read comics, if this comic came out today they'd be too busy posting out of context panels like this and getting mad about it. It's just like that panel where Harley Quinn, incognito, gives a defense of Harley Quinn, and /co/ keeps on falling for it.

>>87008108
I don't understand the problem here.

>>87008726
The only girls you'll see at the beach not wearing tops are the ones whose age isn't even on the clock yet.

>>87008608

Course it was bullshit. The whole thing was engineered for click bait and advertising and it always works for a short term boost to sales and traffic for every site that talks about it. And it'll keep happening.

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cultural appropriation

>>87006691
Shoulda cropped the mark

>>87008031
Guy was considering rape? That seems kind of dark.

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>>87008031
Morality aside, why would he even consider doing that to a woman who could bench press a tank?

There was always the chance that she could wake up, realize what's happening to her, and then punch him into the stratosphere.

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>>87003782

>>87008108
what comic is this?

>>87008993
Why would they care about the skin color of someone from another planet? Isn't the species difference already enough?

>>87009309
Because yo' mama.

>>87009192
Because Guy is dumb, you do realize he rubbed his hand on Mary Marvel's panties and sniffed his hand right? And Mary can do just as much damage too him, Green Lantern or not.

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>>87009269

>>87009269
To be fair, she was turned into a megalomaniacal supervillain at the time.

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>>87003782

>>87009513
That's not "problematic"

Tumblr and the like are mostly privileged suburban white women, they love them some chocolate

>>87009594
>Barda
I must say, Plas has superior taste

>>87009579
you know there is white chocolate as well

tastes better than black to me, as well

and no these aren't euphemisms

>>87009579
It would cause shitstorm on internet

>>87009513
>strong independent woman
>protesting against her patriarchal shitlord husband's toxic masculinity
>fighting racism and culturally enriching herself by flirting with a black royal hunk
>progressive writers dared to suggest a white woman - black man romance

That would be probably considered the opposite of "problematic"

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>>87006691
The Goon have an entire issue dedicated to "trigger" the readers. Actually, readers and creators alike.
This entire issue is pure gold.

>>87009729
Meh, it didn't cause a shitstorm back in 2005, why would it cause a shitstorm now?

>>87009830
There are more sjws now

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>>87009814

>>87009845
>sjws
>hating black men with white women

see >>87009803
>>87009699

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>>87009858
A jab at artists like Deodato and multiculturalism in the same page.

>>87009505
>scientifically advanced black nation
Truly, stuff of fantasy.

>>87009814
>Is the Goon a gay Republican Puerto Rican transvestite Socialist for Jesus from space?!

M-muh diversity! TRIGGERED

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>>87009885
Horsefuckers

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>>87009899
Powell, that absolute madman

>>87009885
Deodato didn't just trace backgrounds, his fucking characters were fucking models traced as well, that's why the poses were so fucking stiff. Spider-Man during that time was terrible to read.

>>87009919
small horses?

>>87009951
#givegoonaboyfriend

>>87009964
He started tracing only backgrounds. Now he does trace everything, even from Lego.

>>87009814
speaking of eric powells does any have that creator front for diversity in comics video? the one where he just shits on capes. don't tell me it's been deleted from the internet forever.

>>87008726
Dude, I saw a girl at the lake go out of her way to avoid showing her chest while changing.

As in, putting on dry clothes over their bathing suits, and then contorting out of them from underneath.

We do not condone child nudity here.

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>>87009964
Beautiful art.
>Marvel pays this hack to cobble together shitty 3D models found on the internet
He doesn't even really trace anymore nowadays, just slaps a shitty Photoshop filter.

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Femforce. Just Femforce.
In all its deliberately over-the-top campy erotic glory.

Feminists already complained about it back in the 80s.

>>87008790
Europoor detected

See, here in North America, we have this funny thing called "decency" and "self-respect"...

>>87010284
>naked thighs
TRIGGERED

>>87009699
>implying there are girls on 4chan

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>>87009086

Yes. DeMatteis and Giffen always wrote Guy Gardner as a fucking weirdo.

For example, Guy in their comics took Ice to see a porno on their first date.

>>87010294

Those are not synonyms, my colonial friend.

And if a naked body causes you shame, perhaps you have body issues.

>>87010435

So like 'Taxi Driver'?

>>87006377

The thing is, he's entirely right: He knew Hitler, he studied under Hitler, He was BFFs with Hitler. He of all people is the most qualified to make the comparison because of how much he knew about Hitler. Also, his point is simple: Magneto killed a group of people for no other reason than them being humans. It was an act of cold hatred and prejudice. It's the line that virtually no one else has crossed, not even Rightclops.

>>87007469

This is a good example actually: It's now taboo for male heroes to hit female villains, regardless of what they do. WWE is a great example: No matter how awful Stephanie McMahon treats people, none of the babyfaces are allowed to touch her because USA Network specifically refuses to allow the WWE to show man-on-women violence. People lost their shit at how Batman manhandled Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad. It's become a bizarre orthodoxy where context no longer matters.

>>87009513

Aren't BP and Reed good friends? Why would he be hitting on his wife? I though T'Challa was above that kind of behavior.

Also why were they skinny dipping with each other in the first place?

>>87006182
>Batman has never really been the same since he found that dead hooker in a garbage bin.
when was this?

>>87009297
Power Pack.

>>87008790
boys in girls clothing. duh. we'd never hear the end of it.

You'll never see Molly Hayes like that. That is why Katie will always be cuter.

...Wasn't Katie about 5 when they became Power Pack?

Kymellians probably have no idea how human age works.

>>87008939
>came out 2 years ago

>>87005131

It's easy to get addicted to moral outrage, and it's easier to do that if you can get feedback from others telling you that yes, you're right to be outraged. If you can't find a legitimate reason to be outraged, you'll invent one.

>>87006809
All the same it's walking the same line

>>87010622
what would make you think reed and bp are good friends?

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>>87010622
That requires a storytime, and I'm too lazy for that right now.

Long story short, it's from a technically canon mid-00s FF spinoff that was written by some normie playwright who was Joe Q's friend. It retells the plot of an old Lee-Kirby issue when the FF met BP, but with BP acting like a weird mix between Namor and a BBC stereotype, and Sue acting like a nympho in heat. Spoilers: No, they don't fuck, no, they don't kiss, no, essentially nothing of substance happens at all. As for why they were skinny dipping with each other... it doesn't really make sense in context, either.

>>87011134
They are friends, and T'Challa really is an honorable man. The comic in question, however, is set at time of their very first meeting when they weren't good friends yet, and also T'Challa is written in a very OOC way.

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>scantily clad women
>violence against women
What about violence against scantily clad women?

>>87009192
Guy's the one who knocked her out. GL rings are strong as fuck, and at the time he was using Sinestro's yellow ring, which was even stronger.

>>87011212
Double problematic!

Practically everything if we're asking the tumblr crowd.

>>87011160

She wanted his dick, though, and that is still shitty.

>>87010248
What was it like?

>>87007955
You tried.

>>87011575
>oh no my shitty strawman has been turned around on me
>better try to dismiss it out of hand
I'm not even involved with this and I still think you're a dumb cunt.

>>87011367
As I said, both BP and Sue were written in an OOC way. Then again, it's not much worse than when Sue suddenly started craving Namor dick in the 90s.

>>87011638
You tried.

>>87011575
>>87011765
You tried.

>>87010435
It seems like a little much. I don't know how in character that is for Guy. He always struck me as an asshole with a heart of gold.

>>87005269
The sex slavers logic, which was prey on the weak and beat/rape/torture/threaten them into submission.

>>87011842

>He always struck me as an asshole with a heart of gold.

Guy was straight up asshole. He'd bully the fuck out of Ted Kord, for example, and despite what Jaime's Blue Beetle book would have you know, he didn't have ANY respect for Ted.

Hell, the entire JL cheered when Hal came back, beat Guy's ass in front of everybody and took Guy's ring for himself.

This whole "Guy is an asshole with a heart of gold" is a recent thing. It started with his Warrior ongoing.

>>87006264
that's not torture. What he did to Barracuda, now that was fucking torture.
He just gave this woman a violent, vicious death. Even if it did take like 20 minutes suffering wasn't the point.

>>87011575
>being dismissive proves it's not true
Bitch, you know your tirade suits Tumblr's dogmatic crybullies much more than 4chan's wide variety of retarded assholes.

>>87011900
I see. What do you think of his new personality vs his old one?

>>87003782
Sauce?

>>87012063

I prefer the new personality. The old Guy was just a jerk-ass that served as a joke. He gained character and pathos with his book, cheesy as it was.

>>87005206
>>87005287
>>87005578
>>87005177
It amazes me how incapable /co/ seems when it comes to reading. If you READ his speech, he says that it doesn't matter if popular opinion says something is right, right is right and wrong is wrong. Right and wrong is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact.

>>87011900
What shows willpower in a bully and an asshole? He doesn't even have the willpower to behave himself properly.

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>>87011900
That issue where Hal just straight beats Guy into unconsciousness over the role of GL, tossing him through buildings and shit before they fight barehanded, and how afterward the League dismisses it as a deserved punishment will always seem so fucking weird compared to how things are now.

>>87012220

Not to mention that Ice at the time was with Guy and was, like, the only person Guy tried to do right by and put his best behavior, and Guy begs Hal to not do that shit in front of his girlfriend.

>>87003882
Speaking of the unedited edition, do the people who disagree with this know the context of this panel?

>>87012318
Cap defending his right to be a vigilante accountable to no justice but his own.

>>87012318
Of course not, they don't read comics.

>>87012395
No, he was giving Peter a pep talk.

>>87005670
I'm halfway through the first omnibus and I don't remember seeing anything problematic

>>87008737
It's Louise Simonson. Before the pedophilia witchhunt of the late 80s there wasn't a problem showing little girls topless in art because the general assumption was that children were nonsexual.

>>87012782
The Endless are all white.

Here, found a problematic for you.

>>87011134
Hickman's New Avengers basically had them sucking each others dicks

>>87012902
Dream is shown as both black and Asian.

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>>87006142
Probably not.

>>87012782
Despair's appearance isn't treated as beautiful.

>>87005670
why do you say that? it is still on the shelves, you know.

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>>87012782
Death is showing too much skin

>>87005823
kys filth

>>87012220
Why was Guy even created in the first place?

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>>87013730

>>87013730
It has both female and male fanservice, I don't see the problem

But of course the usual complainers would ignore the male fanservice and focus on the female

>>87009858
Stupid Sexy Goon

>>87012220
Stay Triggered

>>87010651
Batman Black and White

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This thread's premise is such bullshit.
There's no more censorship these days than in the past, there just isn't.
It was far worse in the past.
Idiots who can't remember reality for what it was and children ignorant of what the world was like before they existed are lying to themselves about the world.
There was actual censorship in the past. That is recorded history.

Stuff published today would have gotten comic companies shut down in the past.
That's reality.

>>87003782
ALL OF THEM

>>87012318
context does not matter. The advice is fanatical and parker could hero in another town leaving new york to die

>>87006142
Sure, why not? It's just a card game.

>>87006377
Can you make your point without so many insufferable buzzwords?

>>87006312
yeah, if you are super horny and have not had sex or fapped in months or if you are a woman. I found that women often thing some shots are sexy when they are not (Because they are not men or gay so have no real way of saying what shots are sexual)

>>87007522
>mainstream comic
moving the goal post eh.
>taboo against
no its not healthy. it makes people have fucked up curiosity about it.
>It doesn't further the story, it doesn't further the plot, it doesn't contribute to the hero's character development, its just pure, gratuitous torture, and its fucking sick.
it does. also you are basically going with the "is it necessary?"

>>87007001
They are eligible for gov help. also hood rat can have his recorded expunged in few years after he is out or go to one of those charities that hire people like him. hell he won't even have to go that far, people are a lot less anit ex con than the media makes it seem

>>87014994
>Stuff published today would have gotten comic companies shut down in the past.
True.
But "there was a time when shit was even worse" is not an excuse to not satirize the shit of today.

The "offended" of today are eerily similar to the "offended" of 1948. You know, the ones who burned "problematic" comic books. The ones who influenced Wertham and chucklefucks like him which forced comic book companies to self-censor (and no, it wasn't censorship, it was self-censorship) themselves for decades.

Their definition of what's "problematic" was a bit different, but they still want comic book companies to self-censor themselves to produce content that won't offend their sensibilities.

P.S.: You're comparing today to the post-CCA Silver Age, and sure the Silver Age was much more restrictive. However, why not compare today to the 80-00s, where you could publish a lot more that you'd be allowed today.

>>87006563
ah the good old days when kitty was good

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susan storm having a crush on reed since she was young

>>87009505
>they would not sell cigarettes
This is how you know the writer is an idiot

>>87015282
Congress holding hearings to debate whether or not to shut down your whole industry in one fell swoop isn't "internal censorship".
Self-censorship was the holding action taken in self-defense.
That was not a free expression of personal 1st amendment rights.

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comics be cray cray

>>87009951
is there a panel about how fast the media interest drops down?

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That time Eddie went crazier than usual and almost raped his gf.

>>87015474
Debates are still not censorship. They didn't end in any government legislation. They might have, but that's in the realm of alternative history.

And I'm not the one to believe that self-censorship, especially corporate censorship, is any good. It's legal, but often not a good thing. Case in point, the CCA.

>>87015524
How is this relevant to the topic of this thread?

>>87015282
>It was self-censorship
So censorship.
And it's not so much no allowed as just they'd be avoiding some nonissue moral outrage. The companies aren't being held accountable by anyone they're just being big pussies or they're courting an audience and getting tight assed about offending them but it's not as put together as they were in the days when CCA mattered.
>>87015414
We knew he was an idiot when we read his name was Reginald Hudlin.

>>87015611

Didn't he almost raped/raped Mary Jane?

>>87013108
It's a sorcery so Lattice wouldn't let you cheat it into play with Tinkers.

>>87015282
>>87015696
>>87015638
"Self-censorship" is a nonsense phrase and you're all idiots for using it. Censorship is something that an authority does to you. If you're doing it of your own accord because you don't want to offend anyone, that's not self-censorship, that's just basic fucking tact.

>>87015696
>So censorship.
Generally speaking, yes. But Americans usually mean "government censorship" when they say "censorship", so a clarification was necessary.
>And it's not so much no allowed as just they'd be avoiding some nonissue moral outrage.
By "not allowed" I didn't mean some specific censor entity, like the CCA. I meant, "not allowed by editorial".
> it's not as put together as they were in the days when CCA mattered.
Of course. Back then, they had the Code, a very specific list, which was used to determine what's allowed and what isn't. Nowadays companies just use their intuition or Twitter hashtag campaigns to determine what's not allowed.

Still, my point wasn't that 2016=1956. 1956 was much, much worse. My point is that 2016<1986.

>>87015821
no you are thinking of a work that is done from the get go in accordance with Censorship. if "Self-censorship" is a nonsense phrase and you're all idiots for using it. Censorship is something that an authority does to you. If you're doing it of your own accord because you don't want to offend anyone, that's not self-censorship, that's just basic fucking tact.
makes X work that has explicit content and then changes because of probabile problems than its self-censorship, author wants to Do X but fears the results

>>87015638
That was not debate.
That was the judge, prosecutor, and jury demanding you justify that you've been using your constitutionally guaranteed protections to their liking.
That was a threat.

If you as a private citizen threaten to destroy a business because you don't like their perfectly legal product, that would be a prosecutable crime.
You really think that kind of crime is legitimized by governmental authority?

Don't pretend that's the world American democracy has promised it's citizenry.

>>87015831
>But Americans usually mean "government censorship" when they say "censorship", so a clarification was necessary.
I was talked that in context of human rights "government censorship" is the only censorship

>>87015821
First of all, self-censorship is an actual term. Second, it's not always "basic fucking tact". It's not always positive. When Sandro Botticelli burned his own fucking paintings because he believed some crazy fundie radical, it was self-censorship too.

Second, if you're a writer and your editor tells you to remove certain things from your script, it's not "you doing it of your own accord". It's corporate self-censorship, or "executive meddling". And as we know, executive meddling can be quite shitty.

Third, if people on social media brigade a creator and force them to change something under the threat of social infamy, it's very close to silencing, which is also a form of censorship.

So in short, censorship can take many, many beautiful forms and shapes. Some beneficial, some neutral, some utterly awful.

>>87015918
And sometimes I want to call my sister a cunt but realize that's a bad idea that has some undesirable consequences so I don't.

That's literally just tact. You just use a phrase with the word "censorship" thrown in because you want it to sound scary and have a big fucking moral grandstanding about it.

>>87015957
>First of all, self-censorship is an actual term.
And so is "grey demisexual" but you'd still be a moron for using it seriously.

>>87005401
I expected some srious shilling. But you're kinda allright. That wont stop me frog posting tho.

>>87015821
>>87015918

"Tact" is an expression of personal standards.
By definition it is one's own chosen speech.
There is no equivalence between tact and censorship of any kind.

>>87015941
Hey, I'm not defending the American government in that case. Far from it. I'm just saying, technically the CCA was a self-censorship system, even if it was formed in a threatening atmosphere. Which, in my opinion, still doesn't make it a good or beneficial system, btw.

>>87015989
Again, there many, many different types and forms of censorship and self-censorship. Simplifying it to just
>"Billy wanted to say a bad word, but felt bad, and removed the bad word"
is kindergarten-level understanding of this quite complicated problem.

>>87015831
>clarification was necessary
Not really, censorship in any form is wrong, be it from the government, a third party, or yourself.
>>87015918
Nah if you're censoring yourself out of fear of hypothetical backlash it's self-censorship.

>>87015611
Wasn't Black Cat raped by Venom or was that a 90s Elseworld?

>>87016062
>Again, there many, many different types and forms of censorship and self-censorship. Simplifying it to just- is kindergarten-level understanding of this quite complicated problem.
Oh fuck off, you people just assume the motivations behind changing shit half the time anyway.

>>87016048
yes but sometimes a product is made and only later changed due to "Tact"

>>87015989
you calling your sister cunt is not art. fear of consequences is bad for art. also sometimes people deserve to be called cunt. you are advocating sterility and covering it with words like "tact" trying to make it a politeness issue

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>>87004062
"You can't keep the democrats out of the White House forever, and once they're in I'm back on the streets with all my criminal buddies. Hahaha!"

>>87016123
>Oh fuck off, you people just assume the motivations behind changing shit half the time anyway.
funny that your statement itself is an assumption(a double assumption at that) you just assume the opposite

>>87016079
>Not really, censorship in any form is wrong, be it from the government, a third party, or yourself.
I disagree with you as well. Sometimes some types of censorship can be beneficial. But again, as I said, it's a complicated problem, it should be discussed on a case-by-case basis, it can't be decided with all-encompassing slogans like "self-censorship is always bad" or "self-censorship is just basic tact and thus always good".

>>87016123
>Oh fuck off, you people just assume the motivations
And you don't? You just assumed that all self-censorship is just someone being "tactful". That's a huuuge assumption.

>>87013730
so yellow

Let me tell you about "tact". Here are two stories, see if you notice any difference:

I
>Billy wrote a story about cowboys and aliens for his friends Mandy and Cindy
>He liked his story
>But then he remembered Mandy liked pirates more than aliens
>So Billy changed aliens in his story to pirates
>And he liked this story too
>Then Billy printed the story and showed it to his friends

II
>Billy wrote a story about cowboys and pirates for his friends Mandy and Cindy
>He liked his story
>He was about to print it, when Cindy entered his room
>"Change the pirates to aliens, or I won't be your friend anymore!"
>Billy didn't want to lose a friend, so he sighed and changed pirates to aliens
>He didn't really like this new story, but he didn't want to anger Cindy
>He printed his story and showed it to his friends

Notice any difference between the reasonings for Billy's self-censorship?

>>87016249
>fear of consequences is bad for art.
Again, not always bad. But can be bad, and often is.

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>>87010006
>Growing up lonely: Single moms -- A father's choice

>>87016336
>Sometimes censorship can be beneficial
Closest is typically an artist will creatively find a way to bypass/make lemonaid but people could just interpret that as turning around a shitty/wrong situation. What are really good forms of censorship?

>>87016520
This.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL3q2YCitYQ
He originally said balls instead of boingloings.

>>87016520
>What are really good forms of censorship?
- Not showing gore and mutilation in little kids' shows
- CP ban
- When the artist actually self-censors themselves because of "basic tact" and without any outside pressure (which as I said it just one possible reason)

>>87016594
>Why not? That seems more like a parent's job if they don't want their kids seeing that but otherwise it could be done well
>That's for the protection of kids and stop the creation of such material, not censored because bad ideas
>If there's no outside pressure and it's literally just an artistic decision then it's not really censorship in any form.
I'm not convinced. Ones just censoring to take responsibility from others and the other two aren't actually censorship.

>>87016062
>Comics Code Authority

And I'm saying that the intended effect of that attempted government censorship was achieved. Just as intended.
Censorship was attempted, censorship was achieved as a direct result. That wouldn't have happened without that instigation.
What does it matter what the mechanics of that censorship were when the result was the same?
And that's how people weren't allowed to say what they wanted to despite the promise that they could.

>>87016520
Sometimes writers are self indulgent weirdos If John Byrne is hired by marvel to write for fantastic four and he gives them a 200 page script about doom capturing Katie power and Valeria Richards and brainwashing and impregnating them would you object to the editor censoring him?

>>87016657
maybe the reader not buying their books should be only censorship?

>>87016902
That's not censorship

>>87003782
All crazy jane is 'problematic' because its an inaccurate representation if the insane

>>87015751
Nah, he just scared the shit out of her. But he was more "Creepy home invader that murders you" then "Creepy home invader that rapes you" at that point.

>>87004626
I think even Hege found the fact he published this embarrasing.

>>87016914
well that is my point. there should be no censorship. its not advertisement, you are not bombarded by it

>>87016797
I assume you're replying to me. They're all technically forms of censorship. You seem to think that censorship is only censorship when it's done because someone doesn't like someone else's ideas, but actually there may be many possible reasons. And based on these reasons, and the result, a specific form of censorship might be good, bad, or neutral.

>>87016832
Ok, it seems we're just talking semantics here. Legally speaking, it wasn't censorship in a legal sense. Generally speaking, it was of course a type of censorship. Let's look at it that way: if there was no threat of the government cracking down, and DC, Archie and a couple other big editors still decided to create the same CCA for everyone – would it be censorship? In my opinion, it would, it'd be corporate (self-)censorship which is a form of censorship.

>>87016849
That's a good point actually. Sometimes, corporate censorship via editors or producers can lead to better results than originally intended. But only when the "censors" have the goal of creating the best content possible, and not other tangential reasons (money, fame, agenda, personal bias, etc).

>>87016902
That's not censorship.

>>87013316
the only who should kill himself here is you, Leafyfag

>>87016963
>accurate representation if the insane
There has never been that, nor can there be

>>87017114
Just copypaste Tumblr posts, it would be the most accurate representation

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>Stan the Man

>>87017109
>Leafyfag
>>/out/

>>87004976
this is fanart

>>87017154
yes, get the fuck out underage virgin

>>87017153
>Oh, go polish a test tube or something!
Damn, didn't know Ms.Storm had such a dirty mouth!

>>87017153
>>87017187
Sue basically just called Reed a faggot. In a 60s comic. Wow.

>>87017187
>>87017218
Hot

>>87017153
>She says he's right but wishes he understood women better

>>87017260
>>87017222
Shit, you could just change the clothes and insults, and republish it today! Nothing has fucking changed

>>87010554
No one complained when Deathstroke beat the shit out of a woman and killed her last month.

>>87017271
Jesus Christ...

>>87017180
>out of nowhere brings up youtube shit
>calls others underage

>>87017343
The usual complainers most likely don't even know who Deathstroke is. If he had a popular movie, or was in a female-targeted comic, that'd be another story.

>>87017271
Well that's just straight up racist

>>87017182
>captain
>beat cop

>>87017375
yes because recently Leafyfags started to use kys instead of kill yourself

kill yourself, Leafyfag virgin

no one posted "you would have more fun on your side of town"?

>>87017412
yet they are not the origin of kys.so you were the fag all along

A straight white man dating a straight white woman. Literally Third Reich incarnate. Not in my 2016.

>>87017100
When people talk about censorship they generally talk like creators can only create beautiful awesome work and that any interference at all is just the stuffy freedom hating editors trying to spoil everyone's fun. It is a lot more complicated than that, in a perfect world anyone could write or create anything they wanted and the free market would decided what was popular but unfortunately we don't live in that world.

>>87017100

> The semantics one.

Legaleeze vs. diction aside, it wasn't the corporations that were creating this environment of censorship for their artists, that idea came solely from government intervention.
So here the issue is that the companies themselves were being limited.
Make no mistake, the artists and writers themselves were already beholden to the restrictions placed upon them by their employers, what was published represented the companies, so the established standards and practices that existed and were enforced by editorial departments were effectively already limiting the desired speech of those writers and artists.
But now because of this government action restrictions were placed upon even those editorial departments and those companies as a whole.
It's that external influence that I would most wish to point out here.
The companies were doing things the way they had wished to before the CCA, after the CCA was established it's rules became the limitations imposed in order to do business at all.
Had those standards been entirely voluntary without government involvement the CCA would have had no reason to exist: it would be like writing down a rule suggesting that one continue to breathe ... as one was going to anyway.

>>87006312
>>87015128

It distracted me for less than one second, I have to admit, but it's not like I couldn't follow the dialogue anyway. Also, I'm not just going to fap at every draw of a nice butt that I see, but it's not gratuitous. It makes the panel better, because it's a nice butt, and I like to see nice butts. Comic is a visual medium, what's the problem with depicting nice things on them?

>>87017260
old Parker looked so much like tombstone

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>>87006563
savage

>>87013730

Well yeah, Cyclops' thong is so ridiculous it would be impossible to not laugh at that panel.

>>87017566
kek. butts, what butts? I was looking at tigras boobs and that pose. I did not look at the pic for long so I did not even notice she hulks butt. see what I mean?

>>87017486
Your faux persecution strawman argument is nothing more than shitposting, go push you white power recruitment sob-story headcanon on a board that allows that crap.

>>87017660
Uh oh, someone's triggered.

>>87017494
>When people talk about censorship they
Well, thankfully I'm not those people, because I've said multiple times that it's a complicated issue, and that censorship can be good or bad depending on circumstances.

>>87017518
Again, I agree with most of what you say. This however:
>Had those standards been entirely voluntary without government involvement the CCA would have had no reason to exist
Well, in my imaginary scenario they would've instated a CCA because of Wertham and the comic burnings. I don't say that it'd be a very probable scenario, mind you. I just created this scenario for the specific question I posed: If they did it without a threat of government action, would it be censorship? In my opinion, yes.

>>87015127
Can you refute his points without sounding triggered?

>>87017486
Proof needed.

>>87017713
I never said I agreed or disagreed, I'm just saying he could stand to use an actual vocabulary.

>>87017660
>a white man dating a white woman
>WHITE POWER RECRUITMENT
You just proved his point, you know.

>>87008334
pretty much everything Morrison gets retconned for obvious reasons

>>87003882
I made this edit like 4 years ago and I can't believe anyone saved it

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>>87017660
why are you here

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>>87017271
holy shit

>>87017848
>hory shit
ftfy

>>87017689
> imaginary CCA scenarios

Well think about it then, you and I are allowed to join and leave any club that would have us as a member, and free to agree to follow those rules of such clubs...
The writers and artists in your scenario have agreed to follow the rules of their employers, the editors and their companies, but should those same companies choose to join a "CCA club" and follow it's rules, it's still a free choice with no consequences should they decline to join.
In that scenario everyone still has the option to publish what they've been publishing, what they want to publish, without penalty.
It's the aspect of enforced consequence to what is otherwise recognized previously allowed speech that defines censorship.
Opting in willingly means that it doesn't count as censorship at all, despite it ultimately being the limitation of expression from the consumer's perspective.

>>87010554
It's sad, because it's always hot when it happens.

>>87016374
cool stories bro

>>87017768
Morrison changed who a major villain was with those scenes.
Don't forget that there had been decades of writing recasting Magneto as a sympathetic character.
That was the offense the required retcon, not the marching into ovens scene.
Since then Marvel has portrayed multiple genocidal acts.
For fuck's sake, they're literally gassing mutants in comics today, AND inviting the obvious comparisons in the dialog.

>>87006538
Claremont had already been comparing the term "mutie" to nigger for almost a decade when that was published.

>>87018093
The main reason CCA was even a thing is because shops declined to sell comics without a CCA stamp. Private shops. On their own accord. Was there pressure? Surely was. But officially, it was a decision voluntarily made by private shop owners across the country. And it's not even exactly wrong, because shops depend on the public, and large groups of the public back then were ready to boycott any shop that sells the "bad" comics.

When comic creators got different venues through which they could sell their comics, the Comics Code suddenly started getting more and more lax.

So in that imaginary scenario, a comic creator or publisher could leave the CCA... but then they wouldn't have venues to sell their comics.

>>87007971
Which is what MAX is.

>>87018308
Gaaawwwd!

Ethics would be so much simpler without driving market forces.

>>87010922
Are you talking about Tumblr or 4chan?
Because you just described both.

>>87018388
That's all well and good for obvious ultraviolence and gratuitous nudity, but that little (18+) box can be used as censorship as well.
In manga they import to the US sometimes the (H) rated, that is to say (18+), manga will include some stories without any sex scenes or even nudity, because they slap an (18+) on any "mature" subject matter like crossdressing or transsexuality, you see they didn't want children exposed to even the concept of some LGBT issues. Because of that censorship for some people their existence is officially a taboo.

>>87018664
ok, cool story there buddy.

>>87018521
I think they're describing human nature in general.
There's a little flush of power when you can rally a crowd, for weak and insignificant people that can be a rush as addictive as gambling or binge-shopping.

>>87018673
FYI: This is something easily fact-checked by anyone who has browsed through online porn.

>>87018763
Yeah, I know.

18+ just means for adults, not kids.

Don't buy Punisher MAX for little Timmy.

>>87017008
He probably resented a lot. I think It was before he decided to go out there and find out about other cultures instead of using stereotypes.

>>87018789
I think you're missing the point, they used to censor all depictions or identification of homosexuality in comics for generations.
That's not because a type of person, a group of people is inherently inappropriate for children to have knowledge of, it's because the people making the rules wanted the world to think that.
And it worked, today the conversations about what's "normal" don't reflect the reality of life, they reflect what media has told us should be expected.
That's what censorship does: it makes some concepts unwelcome by what is or isn't made familiar.
It's artificially induced exclusion.

>>87012115
>Right and wrong is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact.

Literally centuries upon centuries of philosophical inquiry would like to have a word with you

>>87017153
this isn't inaccurate at all

>>87005594
This is what we've come to? Calling Samuel fucking Clemons /pol/?

>>87006522
It was one step past gay, which was quasi normalized, so for MAXIMUM edge, you needed something new. And it there's one thing the 90's loved was EXTREEME EDGE. And there was a movie that went big with that as it's center. It was called the crying game.

>>87006579
I should dick slap your civics teacher because they clearly failed.

>>87007971
Fuck you in the Wertham. You already get a fucking trigger warning with MAX. Going back to christfag times is the LAST thing we need.

>>87008726
Not on american beaches.

>>87009192
Guy's sense of dickishness outweighs his self preservation.