The Clone Conspiracy #1 Storytime

>>86908525
I've been refreshing the catalog for HOURS. Doom bless you anon.

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Mandatory recap page.

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>>86908530
It just got ripped.

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Top right is that Ben Urich kid?

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I thought JJJ Junior was busy hunting Carnage?

>>86908563
Why is MJ there?

No seriously, why is she there?

>>86908545
I like how while even mourning at a funeral, MJ has to make sure the breasts are on point.

>>86908554
>Top right is that Ben Urich kid?
Isn't that Ned? Also isn't Sable alive? And when did Betty die?

>>86908563
Can't blame JJ this time.

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>>86908576
Gotta look hot 24/7.
>>86908577
>Isn't that Ned? Also isn't Sable alive? And when did Betty die?
Beats me. I'm not much of Spiderfag.

>>86908571
In the panel with the half mask(which I'll never get tired of) and then the bottom left Peter looks exactly like Tom Holland. Or is it just me?

Why people hate Clone Saga again?

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>>86908602
Because of "you guys know this guy you've been following for the last 200 issues? He's fake!"

>>86908577
What?

His whole motivation is that his wife came back from the dead and said "it's okay listen to these guys". He was against them before that.

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Batman-tier paranoia.

>>86908624
>Spreading his secret identity to people

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>>86908634
He has Mephisto on speed dial, it's OK.

>>86908634
FFFFFUUUUUUU-

>>86908614
That doesn't really change anything though. He's got a point.

>>86908611
Man this art is a nice break from Camuncoli.

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>Warren, you're under arrest!

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Are Rhino and Electro big guns in any reality?

>>86908634
1) Jerry probably didn't see that
2) It's not that weird for Peter to be using his bodyguard's gadgets.

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>Max, you're so... big!

>>86908644
Damn this some nasty shit

>>86908697
Okay doc, you can clone me on one condition.

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>>86908711
You're reading my mind, anon.

>>86908716
Gwen incoming.

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>>86908725
Gimme lottery numbers.

>>86908724
Jesus fucking Christ he's seen her get killed with his wn eyes. He dealt with the clones. It's been 5+ years since then and she still looks the way she did that day.

And he still doubts. Shit fucking writing right there. This whole issue so far is long ass one artificial drama.

>>86908599
Straight from the 80's sitcoms, our favourite jokes: "well THAT happened".

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Now for something completely different.

>>86908737
Yawn.
Let's be honest, we all knew this was coming.

>>86908724
She looks so smug.

>>86908737
Well, there goes my hope for Superior returning.

Man, this is The Clone Saga all over again. Complete with shit writing.

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>>86908750
I blame solicits.

>>86908755
It's not over yet.

Do you think we will get 101 ways to end the clone conspiracy.

>>86908737
>greatest adversary
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Not in your dreams! What's Slott's boner with Ock anyway? Is it because he relates to being a fat nobody that everyone hates?

>>86908757

How did Slott even manage to get this shit approved after the disaster that was the 90's clone saga?

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So, Norman knew? How did he forget?

>>86908749
BIG

>>86908774
You don't understand. Doctor Octopus genuinely believes that he's Spider-Man's greatest foe.

>>86908784
He forgot a whole bunch of things, like the fact he was ever the Green Goblin.

What a boring issue.

>>86908749
>>86908764
>>86908784

Wait a minute. OMD made Norman forget. That was one of the things about Spider-man during Dark Reign.

And the weird thing is that Norman should've never forgotten because he knew of Peter's identity long before.

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>>86908774
Everyone has their favorites. You know who's Aaron's? Master Pandemonium. What he sees in fat fuck without hands is beyond me.

>>86908784
He forgot after OMD because of Doctor Strange's spell.

BETTY DIED?

She was alive during the Regent arc

>>86908576
fuck me i love a girl in good mourning black

>>86908804
inb4 gwen never 'died', was a vegetable, and got put in a new clone body

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Is that the way to treat your squeeze and mother of your children?
>>86908799
>>86908802
>>86908806
But before OMD, he knew or was it conveniently forgotten?

>>86908784
>>86908804
>Gwen died knowing Spider-Man was Peter
>Gwen died thinking Peter killed her father
This is worse than Sin's Past

>he doesn't like Master Pandemonium

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>>86908819
Even dumber.

>>86908804
>clone Gwen knows Spidey's identity, thinks he's bad and turns bad herself
THEY PULLED THAT BLACK CAT SHIT AGAIN
STOP TURNING ALL OF PETER'S LOVE INTERESTS AGAINST HIM

>>86908784
So Gwen is alive and wants revenge on Peter now? Also that Ock is obviously a clone as the little robot holding his consciousness is gonna show up later definitely. Where's my paycheck Marvel?

>>86908820
He knew before OMD. He knew since the very first issues but lost his memory during a fight. A few IRL years later he permanently regained his memory(after one time where he remembered but then forgot again) and that lead to what we're seeing here.

>>86908844
Jackal clearly lacks a mustache here. And talking of Warren like that... Ben Reily confirmed?

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Because YOU asked for it, true believers!

>>86908670
technically they should be. Rhino can be almost as strong as the hulk and has occasionally gone toe to toe with the big guy.

Electro is whole another tier if he/she wasn't a stupid common criminal. It's like sandman too or absorbing man. Their full poteintial is fucking scary

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>>86908864
This chin looks familiar?
>>86908873
Yeah, technically. They're chained to street level.

>>86908873
that's the thing I love about spidey's villains, half of them are avengers-tier threats if they weren't absolutely retarded

>>86908774
Slott compares himself to Doc Ock all the time, he has even said he relates to the fat fuck.

>>86908864
>inb4 Jackal is the "true Peter Parker" and the Peter we have now is the clone

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This is Prowler's chance to shine!

>>86908844
Was she about to stab his shit? Or her own?

>>86908867
>>86908881
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT

>>86908883
It kinda ties into that theme of power and responsibility.

By all accounts peter has a low tier power but he uses it responsibly and builds on it. His villains are usually high tier but rather than diving into the true depths just touch the surface of their power in order to commit petty crimes.

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If nothing else, covers are cool.

>>86908892
That's just sad

>>86908554
Ok... lets see if we can name all these characters. From top right, moving left:

>Ned Leeds
>???
>Ben Urich?
>George Stacy
>Harry Osborn?
>Uncle Ben
>Gwen Stacy
>Betty Brandt?
>Marla Jameson
>Exekial
>Jean DeWolff?
>Silver Sable

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>>86908779
Take a guess

>>86908867
Okay, this clearly isn't the real Cap Stacy and just a clone who Jackal is using to get to Gwen. "Real" George would've remembered that Spider-man didn't kill him.

>>86908881
>This chin looks familiar?
No, actually.

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I just can't care. I doubt I'll have the interest to see this through

The guy wearing the mask is going to be one of 3 things:
A peter clone
Jackal
Doughnut Steel

I don't see what the big deal here is. There's only been one issue and it's pretty harmless.

The 90s clone saga, the stillbirth of MJ's child, sins past and one more day are all worth getting pissy over, but this is relatively benign.

>>86908912
You want sad read up on what he said when he was showing us the plans for Superior. Basically Superior was what he would do if he was Spider-man.

>>86908930
This is why characters in comics need proper endings, shit like this starts happening and people simply just stop caring.

>>86908942
>the stillbirth of MJ's child
What was wrong with that?

>>86908575
Because she's a family friend and her breaking up (or magical devil divorce) doesn't change that.

Don't forget Aunt May wants them to get back together.

>>86908942
That's half the problem, it just feels like they are dragging a burnt dead corpse around and asking us to care.

>>86908943
I remember that. What a despicable human being.

>>86908930
>clone story
>no Scarlet Spiders to kick ass
Fucking Spider-Verse and pulling carrot away.

>>86908873
>>86908883
>>86908908

Thats also whats great about Spidey. He is so fucking good at what he does that he makes his bad guys look like b-stringers baddies.

I mean look at Otto or Norman. They have proven time and time again they have the cunning and intellect to be avenger tier villains. Unfortunately for them their first run in was Spidey. Who just made them look like a joke.

>>86908575
To bait fans. Literally, that's it.

>>86908554
>letting Cheung sameface do this.

also

>EVERYONE DIES
Apart from Aunt May apparently. Kill that old bitch and be done with it.

I'm going with the new jackal not being a clone of the original, but a "son" with DNA from original and Gwen

>>86908961
If I recall Otto's tentacles were strong enough to briefly rek the hulk back in the day. Thats why if peter got his ass kicked by him he got absolutely fucked. They might have nerfed it in modern times.

>>86908967
>Apart from Aunt May apparently. Kill that old bitch and be done with it.
I unironically think that by the end of this arc she'll be younger and sexier.

>>86908571
>that fucking dumb midget is still here
wHY

>>86908856

>Your DNA
>With memories

WHAT DO THESE WRITERS THINK DNA IS?

Fuck, this is "Alien Resurrection" all over again. The premise doesn't even make internally consistent sense.

>>86908944
If you told me in 2001 Marvel would make me lose complete interest in Spider-man I say you were cynical. It had flaws but the runs had a lot of heart to them and it felt like real adventures and kept true to it's roots. really in less then a decade from there I was so smashed by the insanity of what they had to do to him, the completely unnecessary changes and alterations done to fit the Marvel crews boarder line fan wank ideas were uncanny, I've drop supporting Marvel now that it's second nature just to ignore them.

>>86908597
Not exactly like but he looked more boyish.

>>86908525

Unless I am very much mistaken this whole story is about putting things BACK.

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>>86908977
I hope so.

>>86908644
that is really unsettling holy shit
how long do you think that guy has been staring into the darkness, not been able to move?

>>86908602

Not the concept. That wasn't so bad. It's just that they kept piling on and it kept dragging on, all for it to be undone when the Green Goblin returned.

>>86908973
Otto's tentacles at one point were adamantium which basically meant if he got you in a strangle hold you were in bad shape.

>>86908820

He knew up until OMD and then didn't after that. He didn't know about Peter's identity during Superior. He only found out that Otto took over Spider-man's body.

>>86908856
>You're not a clone, I just created you from a sample taken off your corpse

THAT'S STILL A FUCKING CLONE!

>>86908994
>WHAT DO THESE WRITERS THINK DNA IS? Fuck, this is "Alien Resurrection" all over again. The premise doesn't even make internally consistent sense.

It's a shitty way of saying ''They're not CLONES stop calling this Clone Saga 2, but they're clones.''

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Apart form the the midget fetish, I actually enjoyed this issue.

>>86908602
It was a really bad bait and switch where they made the Peter we read for decades turn out to be the clone while the real one was living off the grid for those years. On top of it they didn't know when to stop and we were just getting so many clones and clone variations it made the Sonic OC fan base look small. Then the entire climax is so underwhelming that you just stare going "That's it?"
Then the rage is doubled over when you discover this was all done to try and distance a married with child Spider-man from existing. This whole mess was they wanted out of a wedding and didn't want a kid because it aged him up to much.

When will Dan Slott be off of Spidey so I can read it again?

This same ol' DOC OCK, SLIGHT ROMANTIC DRAMA, PETE PRIORITIZING DUMB THINGS shit is getting old.

Where's Yost? What's that nigga working on?

>>86908864
Or he's Warren, and taking the chance to talk himself up without saying he's Warren.

>>86909057
>Plan A: Clones, Clones Everywhere
>Plan B: Make a Deal with the Devil

Marvel REALLY wanted to get rid of that marriage.

>>86908994
It doesn't matter. It's a superhero comic book. none of the "science" involved in these stories actually make sense, you just have to suspend your disbelief.

>>86909034
The point is that he's selling it to her as if she's the original consciousness of Gwen Stacy in a newly grown body, rather than just a copy.

>>86908994
Don't blame Alien Ressurection... Blame Assassin's Creed for making misinterpretations of "genetic memory" cool again...

>>86909025
I remember that scene. goblin-oh-its-you.jpg
>>86909034
Yep. I guess they want to shill it like CLONES BUT BETTER.
>>86909059
>Where's Yost? What's that nigga working on?
Max Steel and Thor: Ragnarok, last time I checked him.

>>86909059
Dan Slott is the only thing keeping Spider-Man alive. As son as he leaves, Bendis will use his influence to have Pete killed off so Miles can be the true Spider-Man of 616.

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>>86909092

The best page out of that whole damn run.

>>86909095
I'd rather see him dead than see Slott continue to bastardize every aspect of the character.

So alternative to my Yost request..

Miles when?

>>86908602
>being this casual

Try reading it, dumbass.

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>>86909081
Anyone have that blog Bendis wrote back in 04 that was sharing his original pitch to end the clone debacle was to have Mephisto merge Ben and Peter into one Spider-man character and remove MJ and the baby with Big M's powers and the fact he got pissed as hell the Green Goblin pitch was done instead? If I remember right he claimed he went to the bathroom and just screamed till he was horsed when they rejected his pitch.

>>86909097
I agree.

>>86908856
>"Bridging"

OH FUCK YOU SLOTT YOU DO NOT GET TO CO-OPT THAT TERM

>>86909103
Miles already has his own book not written by Slott. You could just read that.

>>86908611
>"you guys know this guy you've been following for the last 200 issues? He's fake!"

Try 400 issues. Clone Saga starts in the ASM 400s.

Also, its more than "Tricked you!" The whole saga is a complete clusterfuck of nonsensical stories.

>>86909113
>Mephisto
Why is it always Mephisto?

>>86909081
It was more they really wanted him de-aged. There were talks at one point to have him move back in with Aunt May which lead to JM DeMatteis pushing really fucking hard the idea of having Aunt May pass away as a big event and sales pitch thinking Marvel wouldn't be as "shameless as DC" and bring her back from the grave.
Man time is a funny thing

>>86909118
Yeah but Blaxican Peter isn't MUH JMS PETE

I miss you so bad JMS... so bad.

>>86909113
>>86909137
It was Joe Quesada and he had a lot of Satan recon ideas including that Franklin Richards would be turn into a normal human boy because of a deal made by Sue and Mephisto.

The old guard of the 90's really didn't like him to much because they felt he was to much like a DC crew trying to just hit a reset button when they want to tell stories.

So, is this the real Otto, or a clone? Will we get clone-Otto vs real-Otto-in-a-robo-body?

>>86908774
>>86908804
>>86908892
You know he did have Otto admit that Norman was a better villain in superior.

>>86909210
Who the fuck cares

Someone just make Slott a Doc Ock ongoing so he can fetishize midgets and just be far away from my character.

>>86908844
Gwen has a "not this shit again" face in the last pannel.

>>86908764
>retcons the fact that Norman was purposefully looking for Gwen
>No remark that references Sins Past
So is that shit retconned now or what?

>>86908697
>B-but anons! He's totally not just making clones! Jackal's a-actually bring people back to l-life this time!

Holy shit. I cannot believe people actually fell for that.

>>86908563
Either this takes place after Carnage or Slott doesn't care.

>>86909210

Otto's body is gone and his mind is on a small robot with a limited lifespan. So I'm going to assume it's either him or it will be him.

He knows Spider-man is Peter but so does Jackal but Jackal probably wouldn't bother adding that to an Otto copy.

>>86908737
Here's hoping Slott gets his Spock ongoing after this and steps down from ASM.

>>86908745
>It's been 5+ years since then and she still looks the way she did that day.

Well, that's just comics. Most character appearance don't change much.

>>86908545
John Jameson took time off from hunting symbiotes to come to his grandfather's funeral

Too bad She-Hulk didn't come too

So, what are the chances this ends up being a contrieved plot device to introduce Spider-Gwen into the 616 reality?

Also what happened with the living brain? What will Ottos mind do when he realizes someone cloned him? Will Otto get a brand new superior spider-body?

>>86908967
>Cheung sameface doing a clone story
I fail to see the problem.

>>86908779
Anon, Slott has been trying to get Clone Conspiracy greenlit since he first started his run on ASM. Stephen Wacker, Slott's original editor denied this story tons of times. Probably for good reason.

Then, back in 2014, when Wacker quit Marvel, Slott bullied his new editor, Nick Lowe into allowing him to write this shit.

Slott and Lowe have even gone on record pretty much acknowledging that. Slott has openly stated Wacker wouldn't let him do Clone Conspiracy and Lowe said Slott started bringing it up on day TWO of being his editor at NYCC this past weekend.

>>86908994
These Spider-Man clones have been established for decades to have the memories of the originals. I guess they could create some new explanation for it though, rather than just roll with it.

>>86908867
>>86908881
I figured our the twist.


The pill doesn't stop the cellular degeneration it causes it.
It introduces an agent into the body which causes degeneration. Taking more of the pill stops the agent from activating, but stopping once you start makes it continue.

>>86909308
Too soon, anon.
And she'll be Hulk soon.

>>86908802
>Wait a minute. OMD made Norman forget.

Dingus, this story takes place waaaaay before OMD even factored in.

This backup story takes place during Gwen's death in ASM #122. OMD doesn't change anything till the late 200s.

>>86909225
What do you even dislike about the current issue man?

>>86909312
Living Brain self destructed in Amazing.

>>86908554
>>86908577
>>86908810
Those are Peter's parents. Not Betty and Harry.

>>86909345

Think about it. Post-OMD why did GG kidnap Gwen? Mephisto retconned Norman knowing.

>>86909366
NOOOO! Did he have Wifi or a backup module?

>>86908563
Marvel doesn't have continuity anymore

>>86909346
"I made a mistake and it hurt my feels. Its really hard to be Spider-Man even when I'm turning into Tony Stark."

"I better chase down a singular lead to try and justify my feelings."

"Oh no the jackal!"

"Oh no, clones!"

"Oh no, Doc Ock again!!!!!!"

>>86909386
>making sense of marvel timelines
oh boy, i'd like to let you take a shot at explaining the x-men pocket universe.

>>86908644
SPOOKY SCARY!!!

>>86908724
The house of ideas everyone.

>>86908830
TEA?!

>>86909329
But why the Clone Saga? Why the story that's known for being utterly dumbfuck? Why the storyline that a website had to do two separate lists for worst Spider-man stories, ones not from the Clone Saga and ones from the Clone Saga?

I would not be surprised if sales of this ended up in the toilet.

Prowler and Electro died for this. Thanks, I guess, OP.

>Had three chance to retcon Sins Past

>Didnt.

Oh fuck off Slott.

>>86909443
isnt it obvious? he wants to take the worst spidey story and make it good.

now, his capabilities as a writer make me think he cant. if this sucks, its gonna be on him and the editor.

>>86909415
Kek

>>86909415
This reads like a funny sketch where Spider-Man gets mugged.

thankfull i dont read Spidey from months.

>>86909049
Ive been finding Clone Conspiracy quiet a bit, even in the ASM titile. This is possibly the best Slott has been in years.

>>86909457
To give him the benefit of the doubt maybe he's pretending it never happened?

>>86909312
Living Brain/Otto self-destructed when Peter told him that Superior-Otto commited mental sudoku to let Peter beat Norman.
He separated a part of his consciouness in a mini bot that went straight to New U.

>>86909401
Otto got into a little Otto robot and ran away to New U

>>86908563
PETER PARKER IS A MENACE. HE'S EVEN WORSE THAN SPIDER-MAN.

>>86908563

>I thought JJJ Junior was busy hunting Carnage?

Guess this is set after that and he makes it out okay.

>>86908586
>Doctor tells you that you MUST take a pill daily
>It'll be fine if it's just one weekened!
Morons

>>86909415
What exactly reaction did you want from Peter when Jackal and Clones came about?
Hell it's not like he acted like it was anything new he just kinda went "oh clones again well shit"

Also I hate faggots like you who dislike rich and successful Peter this is exactly what he deserves to be rich and successful. He should literally just grow old into a Bill Gates but you know better looking.

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>>86908724
Seriously? They're just going to literally rehash the original Clone Saga? Who even thought this was a good idea? No one even liked the original. For fucks sake Marvel, just when I think you hit rock bottom you start to dig. Can't wait until Uncle Ben comes back for the shocking M. Shyamalan tweest.

>>86908804
>You know who's Aaron's? Master Pandemonium. What he sees in fat fuck without hands is beyond me.
The weirdest thing is that he keeps using Master Pandemonium, but never has her face the Scarlet Witch, who should by all accounts be her archenemy.

>>86908707
>according to my suit's x-ray specs
That, among all the shit of Slott, is a thing I like.
Peter is supposed to be a genius, and I never liked that, except for the web-shooters or the spider-tracer, he used technology only there was a problem in that precise moment
I like him having some gadget in his suit obviously not to Batman-tier levels where every molecule of the suit must actually include some kind of shark repellent or micro-nuke

>>86909719
Patients are mostly moron, sadly. A ton of diseases that can easily be kept under control lead to death because something like half of the patients on chronic treatment wouldn't just take their pills

>>86909774
I dislike the writing on Peter as a whole, fuck wagon. I don't care if he's rich and successful, they always go to the same ol' song and dance in all of his stories and it's fucking tired as shit.

The point in gutting his character was to explore stories you couldn't do with a married Peter Parker. Ever since its been the same 1 or 2 note stories.

LOSS. POWER UP. SHENANIGANS. UNSEEN CONSEQUENCES. SLIGHT ROMANTIC ENTANGLEMENT. LETTING DOWN SOMEONE IN PETER'S LIFE. MORE CONSEQUENCES.

There's just no heart to it. It's literally shoe horning in shit that Dan Slott likes and wants to see more of. We've seen more of Doc Ock in the last 5 years than we have in 50. I swear to god, nigga.

It's just boring. Like there's no good story telling, it's just.. drivel.

Pete has no heart in this ongoing and it's a sad change of pace. I pray to god the Renew Your Vows ongoing is better.

I just want Silver Sable back.

>>86908844
He's talking about Miles Warren in the third person. Either he's very arrogant or he isn't Miles.

>>86908545
Wait I thought May was the one who was coughing up blood?

>>86909875
She was
We have to see if Slott'll bring that up or he'll ignore it because he changed idea about the one he wanted to die

>>86908670
electro has a vagina now?

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>>86909847
Post yfw Masketta Man is Uncle Ben.

>>86909875
That was a fake-out.

>>86908830
So how is this any different from ASM #144, when the original Gwen clone showed up? She thought she was the real Gwen, too.

>>86909950
She's a clone of the girl he accidentally killed two years ago. His DNA got mixed in with hers and she was able to drain his power, killing him in the process.

>>86908835
>So Gwen is alive and wants revenge on Peter now?

No. She's cloned and wants revenge on Peter.

>>86908844
>Jackal talks about Miles Warren as though its a different person entirely.

Yup, this is a Peter clone.

>>86908755

come on, octavius can still wear superior spiderman suit, he will have to adjust it to XXXXL size but it's still ok right?

He'll leave after this right? After he does this he'll be done right?

>>86908737
Since some of the clones are coming back better than they were before you'd think Otto would give himself a ripped figure and a better haircut. Basically make him look like Ultimate Ock.

>>86910056
He's never going to be done. Claremont run on X-Men will look like a hit-and-run by comparison

>>86908525
>NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME AFTER THIS STORY
I love how bullshit this line always is.

>>86910056
No, this is gonna sell big and he's not gone at least until he finishes the Norman arc.

I for one hope that when he leaves Peter is still a CEO and the company is not in danger just to see how another writer would take things.

>>86908873
>Rhino can be almost as strong as the hulk

That's factually false. Hulk's strength has no theoretical height.

>>86910098
As long as there is one issue where Rhino fought Hulk at a relatively equal level, people can and will say he's about as strong.

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>>86908873
>This chin looks familiar?

Slott made a huge point to point out that Peter has stubble now, too, in ASM #19

>>86910176
Whoops. That was meant for >>86908881

>>86909833
Yeah at this point I'd rather read otherverses and miniseries. The 616 just gets too predictable, moreso thanks to the MCU.

>>86908916

My guess starting top right going clockwise would be

>Ned Leeds
>Ashley Kafka?
>George Stacy
>Nathan Lubensky
>Gwen Stacy
>Ezekiel
>Jean DeWolff?
>Silver Sable
>Marla Jameson
>Mary Parker
>Richard Parker
>Ben Parker

>>86910176
>New U

Wait. Wait. Wait. Are they just stealing stuff from Borderlands now?

>>86908624
its not really webbing spidey, its just acid

>>86908923
>this clearly isn't the real Cap Stacy and just a clone who Jackal is using to get to Gwen

No shit. Literally ALL of the previously dead characters that are coming back are clones. Literally every single one.

Why can't people figure this out? Its not even hard.

>B-but Jackal and Slott said they are real!

Yeah, real clones. Because Slott is just having Jackal be pretentious and arrogant about his phrasing. That's literally it.

>>86908624
Why the fuck does he need acid, when he can just tear that off with his bare hands?

>>86910255
Something something trying to be stealthy.

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>>86908958
>>no Scarlet Spiders to kick ass

He's going to be in ASM #21 (pic related), where he fights Carrion (another Clone Saga return).

Since the ASM issues are filling in gaps for Clone Conspiracy, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Kaine gets infected by the Carrion virus or some shit, which in some round about way, activates some bizarre trigger Jackal had in him and Kaine is the new Jackal.

This would explain where Kaine has been and the new Jackal outfit (Scarlet Spider > red suit).

>>86908973
>Otto's tentacles were strong enough to briefly rek the hulk

Otto's tenticals are as strong as any given plot needs them to be. They have plot strength.

>>86908563
MJ and Pete on good terms again. I like already.

>>86910291

>I wouldn't at all be surprised if Kaine gets infected by the Carrion virus or some shit

Carrion tried that in the Scarlet/Superior crossover, and all that happened is the Other kicked him.

>>86909042
>''They're not CLONES stop calling this Clone Saga 2, but they're clones.''

All while titling the store "CLONE CONSPIRACY"

>B-but they're t-totally not c-clones!

nice and everything (not really)
but WHERE IS MY KAINE

anyway, thanks op

>>86910291
im afraid you will be right and kaine(or ben) will be the new jackals
why can't we just get them back

Ugh I feel awful for gwenfags.

>>86909103
>Miles when?

Why would you EVER ask that? If you genuinely want that, you have have some supremely shit taste.

>>86910359
eh, we know our suffering
some of us are getting use to it

>>86908881
It's Norman

>>86910425
I mean the backstory opens with Green Goblins chin, and ends on the Jackle's chin and they match. Plus Norman isn't crazy anymore, no more Goblin Serum. This seems like something Norman would do, using Warren's tech, to fuck with Peter's life. I bet you anything the Jackal is Stormin' Norman himself.

>>86909386
>Mephisto retconned Norman knowing.

No it goddamn didn't, you dumb mongoloid. You have no idea how OMD's retcon works, do you?

Normal still remembered all that shit happened. He knew that at some point he knew who Spider-Man was and doesn't understand why he suddenly did not.

They address that in New Ways to Die.

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>>86908525
Who thought that doing a Clone Saga redux was a good idea?
Next thing you know Dan Slott will bring back Judas Traveller.

>>86908644
I have no mouth and I must scream

>>86909443
>Why the story that's known for being utterly dumbfuck?

Slott specifically aims to piss off fans. Whats the story that is hated most by fans that isn't OMD, since he knows Marvel won't let him touch that? Clone Saga.

>>86908951
Spider-Girl made it all better anyway.

>>86910334
>and all that happened is the Other kicked him.

Yeah and what happens when the Web of Life is still all jacked up from Spider-Verse?

Its throwing off Silk's powers. Why wouldn't it throw off Kaine's powers, too?

>Slott removes the ambiguity from Gwen's death by definitively showing that she wasn't potentially dead already when he got there and yes, it was the neck snap that killed her
Never saw such a hack.

>>86910448
Yup. They're identical, just recolored. Thing is, wouldn't Gwen recognize Norman's voice? Even if it's a clone... Then again Slott put Betty Brant on the deceased people flashback so who the fuck knows what's going on anymore.

>>86910589
The ambiguity had already been removed years ago by other writers

so, is the sin past cucking shit still canon?

>>86908602
Overstayed its welcome and became nonsensical as it was being made up as it went along. The first bit of it is pretty good though and Ben's a great character.

>>86908644
A world where you lack the ability to shitpost. Oh the horror.

>>86910617
>Betty Brant
Its Ashley Kafka, who was killed during Superior Spider-Man.

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>>86908660
GET BACK HER MILES! YOU CAN'T ESCAPE ME! I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRTH

>>86908774
Doc Ock always calls himself that. However, Otto did admit that Norman had him beat in Goblin Nation. Personally, Doc Ock has always been my favorite.

>>86910638
I talked to Ron Frenz a month ago, he said he would not have drawn this issue's back-up if it meant going back to that story.

>"WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE BUYING CLONE CONSPIRACY?!"
>First issue does absolutely nothing out of the reader's expectations.

Gee, I wonder.

>>86909329
I think Wacker's still with Marvel but is now involved with the cartoons instead of the comics. I remember him saying he hoped to have Anya appear in USM, which never happened (considering how that show treated certain characters, that may have been for the best). Slott's output has gotten even worse since Lowe came along.

>>86910478
He dresses fancy, alright.

>>86909116
What does bridging normally mean?

The art in this book looks great.

>>86910736
That also
There wasn't really much happening this chapter.
There wasn't even some kind of great reveal, everything Spider-Man is surprised for in this issue is something we have known for months

>>86910737
>I think Wacker's still with Marvel but is now involved with the cartoons instead of the comics.

Oh, yeah. You're right. But he's completely gone from their print department now.

>>86910737
>Slott's output has gotten even worse since Lowe came along.

Lowe obviously isn't a terribly great editor to begin with. He probably gets bullied a lot from Slott, too.

>>86910698
It still bugs me that there was a story called Ends of the Earth and Shocker wasn't involved.

>>86910754
Well Jim Cheung is amazing. Too bad the story being told here isn't equally as amazing.

>>86910777
I wonder what happens to the people who refuse to take Slott or Bendis' shit.

>>86908737
Calling it now, this is just a clone Otto that Jackal made ealier.

The real Otto (well, the one from living brain at least) is still in his tiny robot body looking for Peter. He will find the clone and get pissed. Maybe take the clone body or a Peter clone (since it's been established that his mind transfer technology only works on his and Peter'sz brainwaves).

>>86909346
Even if you believe this particular issue is any good, Slott will still ruin the middle and ending. That's what does now.

>>86910815
They likely got fired or willingly stepped down (Wacker), because it wasn't worth all the stress.

If I don't buy this, will Slott die?

>>86908829
>This is worse than Sin's Past

Not by a long shot.

>>86908844
Why did she grab a butter knife?

>>86910885
It's only the first issue, it has all the chances it needs to become worst than that

>>86910478

Slott said he'll never touch Traveller, Mindworm or F.A.C.A.D.E.

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>>86908525
BEGINNING OF THE END
NOTHING WILL EVER BE THE SAME AFTER THIS STORY..... Until we retcon it all again in two to five years as usual because status quo.

I haven't been keeping up with Spidey, but I just KNOW this will be a good starting point again

>>86910921
Not even the original fucking Clone Saga coulld be worse than that story.

>>86910949
>F.A.C.A.D.E.
I distinctly recall FACADE showing up in Slott's run

>Oh no! It's Gwen, and she's totally not a clone.

>Oh, btw, take this pill that only clones need in order to stay live so you don't die.

>>86910949
Mindwarm died long time ago. He used FACADE as a gag once, where he was going to reveal his identity, but Peter didn't care.

>>86908525
Which ASM# is directly before this one?

>>86910870
His writing is extremely painful

>>86910949
>>86911002
>>86911019

>He used FACADE as a gag once, where he was going to reveal his identity, but Peter didn't care.

I think he meant that he was never going to elaborate on Facade, not that he'd never use him.

He brought it up at NYCC.

>>86910816

>Calling it now, this is just a clone Otto that Jackal made ealier.

Probably.

Guess we now know why Ock's grave was empty in Superior.

>>86911020
19.

>>86908707
I like when we're reminded how long Peter's been at this sometimes.

>>86908737
Youre not Venom

>>86909457
Pretty sure there's a mandate that Sins Past can't be retconned even though literally everyone hates it. Because even though Quesada hated JMS and his run, he participated in Sins Past and for some egotistical reason won't let it be erased.

People say that x-men are convoluted, but reading this thread made my head hurt

>>86908737

FOR FUCK'S SAKE

WHY

WHY WON'T YOU STAY DEAD

>>86911486
It's a clone you dumbass

>>86908856
That's just better cloning dude. Unless you get a mystic character to check if you put her actual soul back in, you are just cloning. Which hey, maybe this is! Maybe you literally stole Gwen back from heaven with her father! Good job, ass!

>>86911498

Look, you know what I mean. It's like how after Captain America FINALLY killed the Red Skull, after they drove him out of his clone-body, then his mind, then that stupid Armin Zola robot that turned gigantic, it turns out

THERE WAS ANOTHER CLONE

For fuck's sake, man. And goddamnit, Otto, they brought you back fat, too!

I mean, they're fucking clones. All over again! All the Jackal really needs to do is "Hey Pete, Uncle Ben and your parents are back. Take a break from heroing, why dontcha" and that's it. Like, assuming he can bring people back to life (which is a stupid concept, given that they're clones), what does he want to do with it, take over the world?

The saddest thing about all of this is that we're gonna go through all of this, and we're still not gonna get a concrete conclusion on the status of Kaine.

>>86910949
Because Slott is a bastion of truth.

>>86911512
>Cheating on his boyfriend with Norman Osborn
>Going to heaven

Choose one and only one

>Wasting Cheung and Frenz on this writing
Marvel why

>>86911620
>>Cheating on his boyfriend with Norman Osborn
>his boyfriend
>his
So Gwen confirmed trap?

>>86911569
see: >>86910291

>>86911620
>>86911662
>Gwen isn't even worst girl, she's no girl at all

>>86908545

Why is Mary Jane hanging with Peter and them

>>86911698
>be Gary Stacey
>feel trapped in a man's body
>talk to best dad on getting some hormone therapy after high school
>supports you
>become 9/10 trap
>meet qt3.14 nerd
>has no idea you still have a dick
>come up with some bullshit on waiting until marriage
>find some nice older guy to satisfy your dickings who doesn't care about your 7.5 inch dick.

>>86908602
It never ended.
It also went nowhere.

>>86911700
To piss off Spider-Marriage supporters.

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>>86908670

>here come the big guns

MFW Electro has big titties

>>86908554
Where's that reporter, the Big Man?

>>86908724
Suddenly the low order rate makes sense.
Retailers saw this low effort shit coming.

Crash this market WITH NO SURVIVORS

>>86908554
>May outlives two husbands
Just kill her already

>>86908602
it was a two year long crossover between about 8 books a month with multiple special gimmick issues that would jack up the price of random books by $2-$3 in 90's money which was big deal

it also told you from the start the Spider-Man you had been reading for previous 20 years was a clone which infuriated long time fans, It was the OMD of the 90's an ultra convoluted story designed to get Spider-Man back to as single man.

>>86909833
There've been a few high notes like Grim Hunt and some Gauntlet stories. I like it when Peter gets serious and, you know, actually matures, and even though nearly none of that character development actually sticks, it's nice to see it happen.

I go to Spider-Man/Deadpool to read good Spider-Man and that's not even his own book. Hell, get Joe Kelly on ASM or something. Slott's been consistently mediocre as of late but I think that's just because he's been writing Spidey for such a long time. Get him off the book already.

>>86910074
Hopefully it doesn't turn out like Shadowland.

>>86908856
That's not how any of this works!

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>>86910291
>slott brings back kaine just to kill him again

>>86908784
>Gwen mad at Peter for not telling her he's Spider-Man
>Gwen mentions nothing about FUCKING NORMAN OSBORN AND GIVING BIRTH TO HIS CHILDREN
these hos ain't loyal

>>86908632
This guy is like a infinitely better JRJR

>>86908577
>can't blame JJ
I thought the treatment would've done more harm than good? I havent been keeping up lately, maybe I missed something.

>>86912027
To be fair though, most of Ben's solo issues were pretty good.

And ASM #400 is one of the best single issues in all of Spider-Man history.

So not everything regarding the Clone Saga was trash.

>>86912389
>JRJR
He's nothing like JRJR at all. The fuck are you smoking?

>>86912623
He is a lot, compare this to the the Straczynski's run artwork and is pretty obvious

>>86908545

WTF is MJ even during there?

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>>86912785
What, because he blacks out the blue sections of the costume in shadows?

You realize that JRJR isn't the only one who has ever done that, right?

Pic related: Mike McCone doing the exact same thing.

They hired a bunch of artists during Brand New Day that were all doing that.

this truly is the stupidest spider-man comic ive read yet

>>86912927
What else have you read? There have been some absurdly stupid ones penned by Slott lately.

>>86912496
The New U treatment would've kept him alive, at least.

>>86912910
She's there for May. Aunt May was like her surrogate mom for years. Marvel only retconned the marriage, not the times they all had together. Would be weird if she straight up ignored May during her time of need.

>>86913044
No it wouldn't. Have you even payed attention at all?

The New U would have just let him die and then clone him. Just like they have been doing to, literally, all of their patients.

Don't be so god damn dense.

>>86909336
Screencapping this.

>>86912927
OMD

>>86913228
OMIT is equally as bad. In some regards, worse ("devil bird" and "devil brick", anyone?).

>>86912027
It makes me think tho. I know OMD is awful and a terrible thing to ever happen to Spidey. But I just dont get where the backlash is?

I mean the Clone Saga got so bad they basically reversed it right?

Or do you guys think it was the sorry state of Marvel Comics in general during the 90s as opposed to 2007 that forced them to go back to fan demands.

Imagine in a world where Marvel stuck through with Ben Reilly being Spidey forever.

>>86913315
Clone Saga was a symptom to a larger problem, which was an attempt to erase the marriage.

Marvel wanted to have their cake and eat it to. A lot of its writers and editors wanted the marriage out but hated the fact that their Peter Parker for 20 years or so was a silly clone.

Thats it.


OMD basically fixed that. The writers and editors can pretend that Peter never made a deal with the devil. He is single again, not a clone and not married. They can live with that.

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>>86908804
>Loved Peter
>Banged Norman and popped out his spawn

Gross.

>>86913350
Except they've been referencing OMD and reminding people Peter made a deal with the devil ALL FREAKING YEAR
And they're bringing the marriage back in a major way with a book that may have ties to the 616 reality (Peter and MJ had deja vu of the original RYV series in the Power Play story)

Not to mention the newspaper strip has constantly used the marriage for most of the decade

So anons.
On a scale of 1 to 10 how bad is this gonna fuck with Spidey sales?

>>86913315
>Or do you guys think it was the sorry state of Marvel Comics in general during the 90s

A lot of the sorry state of Marvel at the time was caused BY the Clone Saga, which was a trickle down effect from Age of Apocalypse.

Some good info on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUJRJNRqfh4

and here: http://www.benreillytribute.x10host.com/LifeofReilly1.html

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>>86913315
>Imagine in a world where Marvel stuck through with Ben Reilly being Spidey forever.

And what a glorious would that would be. I'd be 100% ok with that. He had a better costume anyway.

>>86912910
MJ's helping May cope, that and it's probably the "small part of her soul" remembering the marriage that compels her to be there too. It's only devil magic that's keeping her apart from Peter full time.

>>86913315
It's mainly the mentality of Marvel since Quesada. They tend to double down on something bad because they think that to admit it was bad in public would be a disaster. They just try to avoid talking about it and have shills go "OH BUT THAT WAS YEARS AGO, GET OVER IT" even though their writers dredge up older plotlines. It's why Sins Past and OMD's problems haven't gotten resolved; they just quietly hope fans would stop talking about it.

>>86913350
It's always been funny to me that they never just made them divorce. Everyone but the crazy shippers would have accepted it eventually if it felt natural, and Marvel would be praised for having balls and progressing Peter's character.

>>86913592
The easiest fix they should've done: They shouldn't have claimed Peter was the clone. People would've been far more accepting of Ben Reilly.

>>86913350
>A lot of its writers and editors wanted the marriage out but hated the fact that their Peter Parker for 20 years or so was a silly clone.

Except for the whole fact that their Peter WASN'T a clone. This was resolved at the end of the Clone Saga when it was revealed that Ben was, indeed, the actual clone.

Its like you didn't even fucking read the story.

Editorial didn't give a shit about whether or not Peter was a clone at the time of OMD as OMD happened years later. They were worried about Peter being aged too much and unrelatable to younger readers. They thought a married man did not represent the "everyman" idea that Peter is supposed to be.

So Quesada wrote OMD to fix that. He figured that having Peter divorce MJ would just add to the problem, as it would age him even MORE.

So he attempted to fix that in the worst way imaginable: have him and MJ make a deal with the devil.

>>86913649
Because Quesada said they wanted Peter to be young. And I think their obsession with keeping Peter really young is what's actually harming the book. I don't know if it's his idea (possible) or higher-ups' idea (also possible) but it's one that ignores how the Spider-Man comic developed.

>>86913455
>On a scale of 1 to 10 how bad is this gonna fuck with Spidey sales?

Hopefully a 15/10. I want this to bomb hard. Conway's RYV book deserves to outsell this by a mile.

>>86913649
I think it's balliser to keep Peter married, since every other couple in Marvel has been split except for the FF...but who gives a fuck about the FF?

Hell the newspapers still keep Peter and MJ married, and RYV is out next month, I don't think OMD achieved anything in the end. Marvel are actually trying to make the marriage mean something again, even if it's not ideally in the main universe (which nobody should still care about)

>>86913649
Apparently a divorced Peter "ages" the character. The guys at Marvel are stuck in the old people mentality that guys in their later 30s or 40s only get divorced.

When really I know plenty of dumbass young 20 somethings who married young and then divorced right away.

There is still stigma of being divorced dont get me wrong but it isnt as strong as it used to be compared to the current generation.

>>86913682
Anon, your reading comprehension is REALLY bad.

The other anon is saying that the initial twist didn't stick because nobody liked 20 years of Spider-Man books being invalidated. That's WHY they switched their tune at the end.

They're saying OMD didn't have this problem: the staff gets to deal with Peter being Peter and MJ retconning their marriage.

>>86913725
Oh, it would be, but they'd get cred ala Jane-Thor for "taking chances."

>>86908707
Those last two panels are exploitable.

>>86913713
What is up with Marvels fetishizing a younger Pete?

Like that ultimate spidey show, the ultimate spiderman comic, marvel adventures spidey, spectacular spiderman cartoon and now the new cartoon of a younger peter parker. Hell even Kevin Feige is obsessed with a highschool Peter Parker in every interview he talks about, wanting Hollard to star in spiderman movies Harry Potter style apparently.

What fucking changed? I recall Peter would be some college age kid IN both the comics and mass media stuff like spidey and the amazing friends, Spiderman TAS, that one 3D Spidey show.

Hell even Raimi Spiderman aged him up to college age real fast.

>>86913722
I might actually consider getting RYV. I read through Conway's recent Spider-Man and his Spider-Man comes off far more competent than a lot of Spider-Man comics have in the last eight years.

>>86913741
I think it goes back to the whole "power and responsibility" kick, marriage is the ultimate responsibility, no way is an icon like Peter giving up on his wife or child.

>>86913756
>The other anon is saying that the initial twist didn't stick because nobody liked 20 years of Spider-Man books being invalidated. That's WHY they switched their tune at the end.

And the point I was making is that it was a non-issue by the time OMD happened, on account of the Clone Saga having already resolved the issue.

Aside from finding ways to remove the marriage and being fucking shit, the Clone Saga and OMD have virtually nothing in common.

>>86913713
>Entire appeal of comic for 30 years is seeing character grow and change and deal with harsh consequences.
>Spend next 20 years futilely chasing first few years of book and constantly retconning shit while making consequence little more than an illusion.

You have to wonder if they're actually ignorant to this or they're just extremely cynical.

>>86913840
That's true when, literally, anyone but Slott writes Peter.

>>86913867
thats the thing with marvel and the comic industry in general isn't it?

They want proper franchise. Marvel always operated on an illusion of change. They cant differentiate too much for new audiences.

I genuinely think DC comics kinda had it right. They developed their characters and when there was slowly no stories to tell they basically rebooted everything again for a new audience.

Ofcourse as of recently the New 52 kinda backfired on them due to horrible execution even though there was a huge untapped audience there ready to start all over again.

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>>86908525

>>86913893
I kind of feel like this was a problem in a lot of BND, not just Slott (but then again Slott was part of the braintrust then so I have no idea how much he influenced things).

>>86913841
>Not being responsible enough to know when to put their happiness before yours.
Only a selfish person forces a relationship to continue for its own sake.

>>86913852
>And the point I was making is that it was a non-issue by the time OMD happened, on account of the Clone Saga having already resolved the issue.
...Anon, are you having a fucking seizure?

They are saying that, with OMD, the crux of removing the relationship (Mephisto's bullshit) does not invalidate Peter. In that instance, there was no "YOUR PETER IS FAKE."

They are not saying the Clone Saga made this an issue for them. They are saying that Clone Saga undid itself at the end because "muh Peter" while OMD did not because there was no "muh Peter" element.

I don't know how you're having trouble with this.

>>86913970
I think the key to Rebirth's success is that they've kept the reboot aspects, but softened the blow with "everything still happened, nobody remembers the exact details and act differently now", it's OMD done absolutely right IMO, and unlike OMD, they have promised there will be a resolution in a few years

>>86913976
Slott was a large part of that. Hell, he kicked off BND by writing the first arc.

But even then, compare how he wrote Peter to how, say Joe Jelly, Zeb Wells or even Mark Waid wrote him. There were conflicting characterizations between stories even then.

It was a lot easier to swallow, though, because readers knew that every 3 or 4 issues they'd get to see a different writer take over and because all those writers were working to together to balance each other out.

Slott HAD to build off of what Kelly, Wells and Waid were doing.

>>86914008
Good thing RYV is remeding this by having all three Parkers fight crime together, and the newspaper strip have always remedied this by having MJ risk her own neck to help Peter out and wanting to be more involved in what he does

>>86914101
I'm not saying it should have happened, just that you can reasonably write Peter getting divorced.

>>86914073
I know he wrote the first arc, but in a lot of other writers I kind of felt like Peter was too ineffective. But yes, I can really see the vast world of difference between the Spider-Man that Joe Kelly writes in Spider-Man/Deadpool and Slott's Spider-Man in ASM.

>>86914008
>They are saying that, with OMD, the crux of removing the relationship (Mephisto's bullshit) does not invalidate Peter.

Except for the whole part where, you know, it does. On account of it going against everything Peter represents.

>>86914186
Yeah, that's why OMIT happened.
YOU don't like it, I don't like it, but the staff can be content in knowing Peter is still Peter. That's the point. They care more about it literally being him than the character being consistent.

So...that was a thing...

>>86914258
Anon, you're just talking in circles.

>They care more about it literally being him than the character being consistent.

Editorial had already resolved that. They already knew Peter was literally Peter. The editorial working for Marvel at the time of OMD and OMIT was an entirely different different staff from the early and mid 90s.

Joe Quesada, for example, didn't even work for Marvel back when the "not muh Peter!" aspect of the Clone Saga was a thing.

He just had a hate boner for a married peter because he favored Lee's characterization. That's literally it.

>>86913535
>Clone saga was made even more complicated because the new X-fag editor in chief didn't want the resolution of the saga to overshadow Onslaught

KILL ALL THE MUTIES