>Flashpoint lasted for ONE FUCKING EPISODE Why was this allowed?

>>86768683
Flashpoint was a SHITTY COMIC
CW Flash is a SHITTY SERIES

You should be thankful.

>>86768704
>CW Flash is a SHITTY SERIES

People actually believe this. I fucking knew when Season 1 ended, it wouldn't take long for /co/ to turn on Flash.

How many times you reckon barry beats it to his mothers murder?

Flash died in 2011

Everyone has said from the beginning Flashpoint would only last a couple of episodes.

It'd be impossible to adapt the comics version, so they only used the basic concept.

>>86768767
It was bad the entire time

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>>86768683
The affects of Flashpoint will be hitting the main timeline, rather than the Flashpoint timeline in that one episode.

>>86768767
But people have been saying it's shit since the pilot leaked?

>>86769061
No the general consensus is that Season 1 was Great, and Season 2 had some great episodes but overall was uneven.

>>86768683
It didn't even have any of the things that made Flashpoint interesting.
Not that I hated the episode.

>>86769061
You're not the Flash, but you're certainly trying to rewrite the past.

>>86769215
>the general consensus

In your echo chamber talkback threads sure, but that doesn't mean that the show hasn't always had critics for being yet another badly written drama.

>>86769270
The majority of /co/ liked season 1, my dude. I know it pains you, but take solace in the fact at least half of those people now hate the show.

>>86768683

Next episode is called Paradox so it's more of a two parter.

Also I'd imagine that this is how they'll explain Superman and Supergirl being around the whole time. I bet Tommy is back magically as a ramification.

It's not as if Flashpoint comic is worth actually devoting a whole season to anyway.

>>86768683
it could have been drawn out maaaaybe another half-an-episode before it would have overstayed its welcome

the issue with flashpoint is that you can't advance the plot until you end it because everything done inside flashpoint will be undone anyway

>>86768704
Well, at least it's objectively better than any other live action superhero content to come out in the last five years.

>>86768767
>it wouldn't take long for /co/ to turn on Flash.

It's not a good show, it's almost like a bad saturday morning cartoon.

Barry isnt fast > Someone tells him "believe in yourself" > Barry runs in circles.

Izombie is a good show. Flash has no merit beyond some fanservice, and fan service doesnt make a show good.

>>86769240
The threads are still archived, feel free to go back to them.

>>86769299
I'm not questioning that the majority of posters in the /tv/ talkback threads like the show (why else would they go to those threads), but I'm saying that the show has always had critics and that you're a retard.

>>86769299
Liking something doesnt mean it's good. Sure /co/ liked the first season, but that doesnt mean it was good or most people thought it was good.

>>86769341
I like the Flash a lot but wew lad

>>86769424
And yet they did.

>>86769424
They literally did. I don't even like the show and acknowledge that. Stop deluding yourself.

>>86769383
>Izombie is a good show

Credibility: Lost.

Next time you see an alternate timeline in the sky, don't go to it.

The Flashpoint is dead.

Bury it.

Consider this mercy.

>>86769341
>Well, at least it's objectively better than any other live action superhero content to come out in the last five years.

It's no Better than Gotham (even with Jada) and is not Better than the first season of Daredevil.
CW doesnt look good and is filmed like shiy even by CW standards.

>>86769424
>>86769511
>>86769534

I'll take it one step further and say most people think both Season 1 and 2 were good. Critics for season 2 is another thing, but it wasn't negative. At worst the detractors were saying it was uneven and muddled, but not that it was actually "bad". Anyone who said it bad are the minority.

>>86769061
Are you new?

>>86768704
Pleb.

for the universe they gave us, one was enough for me

>>86768704

>Flashpoint was a SHITTY COMIC

Nah kid

>>86769383
>Izombie is a good show.
wew

>>86769643
>he doesn't think Flashpoint is a shitty comic

laughing girls.jpg

Tell me more about how feels and moments excuse garbage storytelling.

>The biggest undoing of Flashpoint is that Iris and Joe aren't in speaking terms

Classic CW forced drama. I predicted that writing like this would be what would ruin this show and it's coming to fruition.

>>86768683
>oh noes, too compressed stories in the shows!
>oh noes, too decompressed stories in the shows!

It doesn't matter what they do, you fucks will complain about it.

>>86769708

>People aren't allowed to criticize muh fave show

>>86769043

It's shit like this that puts me in a love-hate relationship with superheroes. Too much telling and not enough showing. And then when they do show the extent of these rapidly growing powers, the writers aren't smart enough to develop the plot so it doesn't fall behind

>>86769705
Are we forgetting about Killer Frost, Punished Cisco and Malfoy? Plus the soon-to-be entire team falling out over it.

>>86769643

You can't defend Flashpoint s a good comic for fucks sake, you are like those casuals that want a Forever Evil movie

>>86769705

>Haha, I'm gonna judge the entire season based on one episode I saw! I won't even watch the promo for the next episode, or consider that the show may go in a direction I haven't considered!

>>86770010

I haven't judged the entire season, I just judged the first episode which is what's out.

>or go in a direction I haven't considered

But I watched Arrow season 3.

>>86769328

Guggenheim has already confirmed that Flashpoint won't affect Arrow in the slightest.

>>86770661
No he hasn't. He actually said that it will affect Diggle.

>>86769215
More like season 2 was great except for one or two shaky episodes, but now /co/ thinks the entire season was shit from the start thanks to those

>>86771326
nope, /co/ was bitching about stupid storytelling all the way through season 2

especially the jay/zoom/flashdad/time remnant
> This is going to complicate things
> Telenovella
stuff

also, no reaction guys for s2

>>86769544
>>86769675

Do you have an actual argument against it?

Its not like Flashpoint would mean fuck all to this universe anyway. Unless Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and everyone else magically became a thing.

>>86769846
Someone on /co/ said Flash was bluffing in this panel. Akin to a villain proclaiming they're the most powerful being in the universe.

>>86769667

Yeah brah

>>86770010
God, Flashfags get triggered so easily. I'm not surprised that /co/mblr is obsessed with a CW show.

>>86771904
>also, no reaction guys for s2

The guy who did it left.

>>86768683

b/c >>86768704

The Cereal King is not particularly imaginative nor creative; but he has a large enough ego to force his crappy canon onto the WB Animation movies, the DCW, and soon, all over the DCEU.

It's ALLOWED bc pablum sells to normies. And Johns knows how to shove it down their throats and get them to loudly beg for more (at least for enough time to cash the 'story idea by' checks).

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>Flashpoint didn't have Citizen Cold

WHY

EVEN

LIVE

>>86774754
Yeah they could have at least mentioned him in passing, baka Flash writers

>>86774754
Flashpoint didn't have any special surprises or cameos. No wacky Green Arrow, No Firestorm still being white, no Eddie to make me second guess my sexuality. Nothing

>>86774999
>no Eddie
I 1000% expected him to show up after they showed him at the beginning of the show, but nope, nothing surprising.

>>86768683
> People were actually hype for Flashpoint

You casuals fell for the cereal meme

>>86775324
Flashpoint fucked up the DCU for five years. I don't know why people were excited for it.

>>86768683
Good question: Why WAS Flashpoint allowed?

Shit's always sucked. Problem is, that's basically all Barry has going for him in terms of marquee stories since he came back to life, and CW halfassed getting Rogues on the plate to play with permutations of them, Silver/Bronze Age style.

>>86774999
kevin smith said it was a budget and scheduling thing, they can't afford to do something that big even though it's not a big deal to viewers it's a nightmare to crew and cast.

>>86768683
gooooood
flashpoint and everything resulting from it is trash.

>>86769383
>Izombie is a good show
Holy shit, I wish I could leave this board to not share it with all the tasteless fuckers here.

>Flashfags still trying to push that their CW show is good

In ten years we'll all laugh at how bad it is just like we do with Smallville.

>>86769383
>it's almost like a bad saturday morning cartoon.

So in other words, it's everything that /co/ could want from live action show?

>>86776619
Buh-bye then.

>>86776690
I can't help but be optimistic and hope that tasteless faggots like you eating up garbage like izombie will eventually leave, so I'm stuck here.

>Flash seems good so far but S2 started well and shat itself after the Zoom reveal
>Arrow was really promising and I'm actually hyped even after probably the worst show on TV last year
>Legends will be bad but comfy
>Need to start watching Supergirl
>jojo is still getting released on Fridays

Life is good

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it makes me sad these days that kids can't recognize awful acting and writing anymore

dropped the show a couple episodes into season 2

its on a fucking network devoted to fucking tweens, there. theres your first hint its fucking bad.

how fucking HARD is it to show flash doing cool flash superhero shit instead of having that for 5 mintues and the rest be shit teen melodrama

>>86776787
How fucking hard it is to make your actors sound like they believe in what they're saying and not just reciting lines?
The line delivery on all of those shows is just painful to listen.

>>86776787
>how fucking HARD is it to show flash doing cool flash superhero shit instead of having that for 5 mintues and the rest be shit teen melodrama

It's impossible in a live action TV show.

>>86776921

especially at 20-something episodes a season

>>86769383
>>86769544
>>86769675

Not that Anon but iZombie is passable at best, not good.

>>86771980 iZombie is just another police procedural. It's just another gimmick (Sherlock Holmes! Foresenic Female Anthropologist and Hottie FBI Agent! Satan HIMSELF!) and the same sausage.

>>86777099
It also suffers from terrible "witty" dialogue, terrible characters and some of the worst pacing on a comic-book show ever.

>>86777099
Gimmicky procedurals are the worst kind of procedurals.
Much as I love Monk, it wasn't the best influence in the long term.
I do enjoy Luther and Hannibal, though

>>86769667
Much like civil war 2, its near universaly agreed upon shit around here. Noteable exceptions is citizen cold and the batman portions.

But the actual Flash parts was a snore fest.

>>86768767
You got low standards if S2 was actually good for you. They repeated S1 and then fucked it up with last minute changes that everyone saw a mile away. The show isn't arrow bad but the writers need to learn new tricks beyond "add new speedster" and "Barry gets a pep talk".

>>86768683
But last night's Flash ep was good.

>>86777190

the flashpoint batman mini-series by azzarello & risso was great.

>>86768767
I liked S1 and stuck around for S2, but the first S3 episode was so bad I actually dropped the show.

>>86769767
I'm speaking in general terms, have you no reading comprehension?

Did you even watch the whole episode?

Barry's not on his original timeline and Thawne removed himself from time-ban

Barry tried coming back to his original timeline but some things were changed but nobody noticed it

What are some good Dr Alchemy comics?

Read V2 onwards with Flash, but don't remember seeing this cunt once. Was a bit ago tho.

>>86776632
Smallville was not bad though.

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>S1 was liked on /co/
>S1 was liked universally on a critical level
>S1 was liked by RT audience score and on AV club
>b-but S1 was bad guys, I always knew it!

>>86778606
There is Flash: Year One I remember. Happens right after Barry's death and Wally wears suit to face Alchemy but gets rotflstomped.

I think Waid did a couple of stories later too but can't remember the exact numbers.

>>86768767
I couldn't stand the acting. I got to the finale of season 2 and couldn't do it anymore

>>86768767
Outside of the Prof. Zoom scenes, Season 1 was pretty fucking shit

>>86778771
Why do so many people value their own time so little that they keep watching, and more importantly, discussing shows they think are shit?

>>86777190
Stop your lies.
What about Aquaman WW fights?
The tie ins with Deathstroke or Cantibury Cricket?
That touching moment where General Lane puts his life on the line cause he views prisoner Superman like a son.

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>>86778787

>>86768683
They did it just so they could take a long and satisfying piss in your morning cereal

I thought that Flashpoint continues into the next episode based on previews,it seems like the timeline is still messed up.

All this episode told me is that despite two years of being The Flash, Barry is still an impulsive, stubborn idiot who will always without fail make the absolute worst decision for a situation and continue make things worse for himself until one of his numerous mentors/father figures tells him how to fix it.

>>86776656
>it's everything that /co/ could want from live action show?

And that's why /co/ taste is shit.

>>86777099
>iZombie is just another police procedural

Yes, exactly. But is a well done generic show. While Flash is a badly done show. But you probbly thing Civil War isnt filmed like shit and doesnt look bad either.

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Because

>>86768683
God that picture is so cringe

>>86781298
I fucking LOVED that part. I would like to see more of Eobard instead of fake wells.

>>86777099
>iZombie is just another police procedural. It's just another gimmick

no one is saying that it's the new Wire, but it does its thing considerably well and has easily the best writing in capeshit TV. No filler, all characters contribute something in an ongoing basis, the relationship drama serves a clever season long purpose every time, it has spotless casting, the status quo changes each season and is entirely seamless... the list goes on. It's super comfy Veronica Mars with zombies.

>>86782787
>this season we finally have a proper Umbrella Corp and Wesker

Fuck yes

>>86768767
There isn't even a turnaround anymore on hype to hate. I predict Iron Fist backlash will begin before the show even launches thanks to all the hype.

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I see the shitposting is off to a good start today

>>86782818
Netflix shows enjoy at least a solid month of hype before comes the hate.

>>86772341
Because the show turned to shit and there was nothing to get hyped about. Face it, the hype train was decommissioned.

>>86778694
>Smallville was not bad though.
Maybe not when it aired but you have to admit it's terrible by current standards. At least as bad as arrow s4

>>86783187
Whatever fits your narrative, senpai.

>>86782670
That part was shit and I bet you're the kind of retard that gobble Arrow's shit too.

>>86783187
More like he got fed up with the constant bitching from people and didn't think it was worth the hassle each week.

>tfw I enjoyed it
>tfw /co/ will never hype again

>>86783622
What the fuck did you enjoy? Seriously that's got to be the worst Flash episode, I'm even putting it up there with the worst of Arrow, because at least Arrow didn't make me think the whole season was going to horseshit by the end of episode 1.

>>86783813
>Characters interactions
>Flashpoint Cisco and Caitlin were fun
>Kid Flash was fun
>Flash VS. Rival was probably the best speedster battle the show has done in terms of fight coreography.
>Eobard was based.
>They brought back Julio.

A solid 7/10 for me. I understand how people who somehow expected a more comics-accurate Flashpoint (even though producers have been saying it wouldn't happen since the S2 finale) would be disappointed, but I honestly don't get why this seething rage is coming from.

Well, at least /co/ is giving Arrow a chance again. I guess it'll have to a trade-off.

>>86783863
>revert for no fucking reason

That's mainly it

>>86783863
>Characters interactions
That mean nothing. And even if it means something, I'm really fucking tired of the "character from another timeline adress others in a overly familiar way from their perspective" shit.

>Flashpoint Cisco and Caitlin were fun
I don't think they had more than one scene and an half each, Caitlin had maybe 5 lines of dialog?

>Kid Flash was fun
There was literally nothing fun about him. It boggles me how boring he was. And how the fuck did Barry manage to not recognize him?

>>Flash VS. Rival was probably the best speedster battle the show has done in terms of fight coreography.
Yeah I genuinely agree, while watching the episode I thought that they used the environment well.

>Eobard was based.
Meh

>They brought back Julio.
I don't even fucking know who that is. The gay policeman?

>I honestly don't get why this seething rage is coming from.
Maybe because none of the time travel-related stuff made sense compared to how time travel was done in the show before, and because having the fucking MC asks the villain to kill his own mother is really a bit much for a first episode.

You're retarded and I honeslty hope this season disappoints you. I'm glad I watched this on a 480p streaming site.

>>86783926
>Barry was losing his memories and powers
>Wally was dying because of Barry
>Joe was an burned-out alcoholic on the verge of losing his job
>Central City and time itself would soon be left unprotected

There were plenty of reasons. This Flashpoint was all about Barry being faced with the prospect of sacrificing everything he had for the thing he always wanted and having to come to grips with the fact he couldn't accept that trade.

>>86783960
You're the one that hate-watched it and is now running around /co/ making sure everyone knows how much you hated it. Sounds kinda' retarded to me.

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>>86783622
I did, too anon. Those complaining are nit-picking contrarians not fit to judge any media.

>solid acting despite a lack of Cavanaugh
>Barry gets his parents back, they want him to move out
>introduction of Kid Flash
>Iris/Wally crime fighting team
>based Eobeard
>Flash/Kid Flash team-up
>Asshole-yet-helpful Cis...er...Mr. Ramon
>Snow the innocent eye-doctor
>More time-fuckery despite Flashpoint being resolved

Felt like an 8 or 9 for me.

>>86784016
>You're the one that hate-watched it
But I liked Flash's S1. And the second season too, I had no particular problem with it, and I was curious about how they were going to do Flashpoint.

How do you justify having the hero literally asks the villain to kill his mother, simply to save his own skin? You just can't.You can't have the MC literally kill an innocent in cold blood and expect us to think fo him as a sympathetic character.

>>86784087
>simply to save his own skin?
It was the skin of his loved-ones that needed saving.

>You can't have the MC literally kill an innocent in cold blood and expect us to think fo him as a sympathetic character.
But Thawne killed "the innocent", not Barry.

>>86784117
>It was the skin of his loved-ones that needed saving.
And how is that differents from all the others timelines created,as seen >>86784080 ?

Why didn't Barry prevented his past self from stopping WW or Vandal? What was different then? Thoses timelines are erased now too, right?

I mean, I understand that he might've think of this as the classic form of time travel where parallels universes are created by each travel to the past, so he might've thought his friends were living happily without him, but why did he trust Eobard on the timeline disappearing thing?

>>86784117
>But Thawne killed "the innocent", not Barry.
And Barry freed him AND asked him to do it. >>86781298

>>86783533
Eobard was on point though. Barry conceding was a bit too much, but he was at Eobard's mercy there.

>>86784190
I don't get your point. Barry foiled Weather Wizard and Vandal Savage right before they struck, the timeline reset was negible.

Changing Nora's fate (which had become a fixed point in the timeline) reshapes 15 years' worth of compounded experiences and ripple effects.

>>86784257
Give me a proof that the main Flash timeline was going to be definitely erased.

You don't consider the words of the main villain of the show who takes every chance he can get to fuck with the hero truthful, do you?

Wally wasn't even dead and Joe was coming around.

Resetting was retarded.

>>86784190
>And how is that differents from all the others timelines created,as seen >>86784080?
It's not, just pointing out that Barry didn't do it to save his own skin.

>Why didn't Barry prevented his past self from stopping WW or Vandal?
He did so indirectly by going back in time and saving his mother.

>but why did he trust Eobard on the timeline disappearing thing?
See:
>>86784257
>...he was at Eobard's mercy there.
Further, he was forced to trust Eobard when he want back for the Speed Equation and in "The Reverse Flash Returns" from season 2 and everything worked out - because RF knows how to time-travel without fucking things up too bad.

Holy shit, RF is more trustworthy than the rouges!

>>86784286
Barry losing his memories was the proof.

>>86784306
Wally was dying and killing the Rival is no indicator that Joe was coming around at all. He's still a cop.

>>86784341
Not him, but he means Joe was coming around because he showed concern for the son he seemingly didn't care for before.

>>86784306
Omg, Felicity stubbed her toe! I better kill my mom and reset the universe to save her!

>>86784282
When is it said that Nora's fate is a fixed point in the timeline?
From where do you pull this "timeline reset is negligible so it doesn't count" rule?

>>86784307
>It's not, just pointing out that Barry didn't do it to save his own skin.
What other proof did Barry had that his universe of origin was in danger?

>He did so indirectly by going back in time and saving his mother.
Why didn't stopping WW or Vandal (and I'm just using them as examples here) also cause Barry to experience memories loss of the initial timeline, since nothing indicates he has lost the memories of thoses events?

>because RF knows how to time-travel without fucking things up too bad.
Bitch the whole reason Eobard went back in time was to fuck as much things up as humanly possible for the Flash.

>>86784311
Barry losing his memory is proof of him losing his memory. Everything else is just what Eobard tells him. And it's not like the guy hates him and is more than happy to kill his mother.

I guess you're all too set on excusing shitty writing. I hope the season manage to disappoint you enough to drop it.

>>86784434
>What other proof did Barry had that his universe of origin was in danger?
A) That universe no longer has The Flash to protect them
B) Barry was losing his memories from the "Reverse Timeline"

>Why didn't stopping WW or Vandal (and I'm just using them as examples here) also cause Barry to experience memories loss of the initial timeline
A) Both of those time-jumps were only a 1-day trip, compared to the 15-year trip to save his mom.
B) There's no indication that he still has those memories.
C) Speedforce.

>Bitch the whole reason Eobard went back in time was to fuck as much things up as humanly possible for the Flash.
Which time-trip are we talking about? Because it's arguable that Thawne went back in time to the night Barry's mom was murdered to use his future swap-box on Barry to become The Flash instead of using it on Wells to fit-in and stay close to Barry.

When older-Flash got kid-Barry out of there Thawne just got mad and killed Nora out of rage - Wellsobard said so.

Look, anon - you already made up your mind. Just stop watching, close the thread, and leave the rest of us alone. Please?

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>>86776787

>>86784434
E2 Wells says it's a fixed point in "The Reverse-Flash Returns"

Stein explains how Nora's death would alter the timeline in a much deeper way in "Fast Enough".

>>86784568
>A) That universe no longer has The Flash to protect them
This is completely irrelevant, even assuming Eobard was telling the truth, he wasn't talking about the other universe being in danger because the Flash wasn't there anymore to take care of threats, he was saying that the timeline he and Barry were currently in was going to erase the one Barry came from eventually. Did you even watch the episode?

>B) Barry was losing his memories from the "Reverse Timeline"
How the fuck does that count as a proof of that.

>A) Both of those time-jumps were only a 1-day trip, compared to the 15-year trip to save his mom.
How does it matter? Care to show me from where you pulled this rule?

>B) There's no indication that he still has those memories.
There's no indication that he lost them and when he interacts with the WW after emprisoning him he never asks his friends why the fuck's that guy in prison.

>C) Speedforce.
Yeah speedforce could've fixed all thoses plotholes, too bad it wasn't referenced at all in the episode.

>Which time-trip are we talking about?
The first one

>When older-Flash got kid-Barry out of there Thawne just got mad and killed Nora out of rage - Wellsobard said so.
Yes, I consider being murdered in his childhood the worst thing Eobard could do to Barry. My point is, Eobard don't really go by the "don't touch anything" rule of time travel.

Maybe if you dislike discussion you could go to reddit, where I'm sure plenty of people will tell you how it all makes perfect sense and agree on everything you say. Or you could just stop responding, you don't even have to aknowledge you're wrong.

>>86784755
I welcome discussion. What you're doing is going out of your way to shitpost about a show you don't even like and have already made up your mind that "it's shit" - so why bother going on? I have better things to do than argue with a 20-something neckbeard about a TV show.

If you don't understand, that's fine anon. If you don't like it, that's fine too. But I'm tired of having to explain everything to shitposting edgelords like you and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Seeing as you're clearly miserable and hellbent on dragging everyone else down with you, I will take your advice and leave - there's better ways to spend my time.

>>86772171
What does he gain from lying to Superman? Your teammates should be aware of your limitations. Barry doesn't seem the type to boast, either.

>>86778707
/co/ has memory problems
I'm going to start calling them /co/ncussions

link to download the episode?

>>86768683

Flashpoint is one of the all time worst Flash stories.

>>86768683
>thinking it won't come back

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>>86785247
>memory problems
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/flash/s01/
RT gives season 1 - 97%

And there's the Reaction Guys meme from Season 1.

AV Club doesn't hold any records of "The Flash" prior to August 2016

>>86785467
Oh, I was agreeing with you in that it was good. I should have made myself more clear.

Nice reaction images from Season 1, btw

>>86785177
thats wally iirc

>>86769934
>Are we forgetting about Killer Frost, Punished Cisco
????????

>>86784968
>a show you don't even like and have already made up your mind that "it's shit"
Except as said before, I liked both S1 and S2, hell I still do, and I was eagerly awaiting S3.

Please do not dismiss my criticism as shitposting, I didn't decide to not like the new season, no matter what you're saying.

Again, you aren't forced to respond, you can just ignore my posts, but don't try to imagine what I liked or not to fit the preconceived idea you had

>>86785467
S1 sure as fuck isn't 97% worthy.
You retards need to remember there's millions of stupid tween girls that love shit like Olicity that bump up ratings way higher than they deserve.
Season one was good but only just. It has loads of cringe worthy drama bullshit, filler meta of the week shit, Barry jobbing to literally everything and more but it was acceptable because it had a good plot with well done reveals, some good actors that carried things, and Barry jobbing was okay because he was a newbie and would get better.

Now comes season 2 and it's just worse than s1 in every way. Plot became a complete fucking mess, the villain sucked ass, Barry is still jobbing to everything, even more relationship drama drowning everything, etc

Really you faggots act like this is something new, this is the shitW we're talking about. Season 3 will maybe improve things a tad but then season 4 will go straight to garbage tier and season 5 will just rub salt in the wound. Flash is going to become just as shit as Arrow just like every other show and it's going to take several years for you retards to finally learn that the flash was never a great show and only season one was passable at best.