DC Rebirth thread

>>86554266
wally because he actually exists now
barbara because her book is slightly less shit

real question is, who got worse?
it's dick

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>>86554266

>>86554304
Kyle. From stellar ongoing he devolved to playing fifth fiddle to the shittiest GL in book written by shittiest DC writer.

>>86554304
Dick, Tim and Kyle. These guys got worst so far.

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>>86554266
Please, DC. Please.

>>86554266
>muh superman fag whose only superman nostalgia is ASS

goddamn it I hate faux /co/mrades

>>86554266
Deathstroke

>>86554304
Dick and Helena Bertinelli

>>86554304
>wally because he actually exists now

Yeah, Wally kind of wins by default. I think the discussion is about everyone's number two pick.

>>86554266
Jessica and Simon

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>>86554266
Jason and Artemis.

Plus >>86554637

>>86554266
Rebirth is really making me hate Superman.

>>86554559
Sorry you don't like comfy Superman, Zack

>>86554637
I don't know how this is possible

>>86554801
Zack, go

>>86554801
"Don't you mean Batmom?" Wonder Woman's "it feels true" were cringeworthy moments.

>>86554381
How can you say he got the worst of it when he literally hasn't even shown up yet?

>>86554957
>Wonder Woman's "it feels true" were cringeworthy moments.
Superman/Wonder Woman shipper pls.
Lois and Clark are supposed to be together. As someone who enjoys them being together, I appreciated that line.

>>86554304
Batwoman.

She didn't get worst. I just simply can't stand her and how hard DC trying to push her.

>>86555065
For fucks sake, it was her arc. Of COURSE she's getting pushed.

Steph's arc and then Cass's arcs are next.

>>86554957
Anything that gets us futher away from Superman/Wonder Woman is a good thing.

>>86555065
I'd say she got worse.
Lost her personality, her supporting cast, and her out-of-costume design all for a shitty book.

>>86555088
The first arc was actually supposed to be Tim arc (I don't care about him too).

And she is called one of Gotham's Trinity. So yeah, DC is pushing very freaking hard.

>>86555065
She is a pretty pointless character and in a bad book.

>>86555140
If she were in more than a single book, maybe.

And Bombshells doesn't count.

>>86554266
He really is the same character as before, just with a family. Not that it is a bad thing, I love seeing superdad and his family.

My only gripe is the fact that now we have to take years to build up relationships with other characters. This kind of sets him back compared to other heroes post rebirth. Also there is inconsistency with the writing across the books.

>>86555140
lol who else would be though, Barbara?
teenage girls can't be apart of a trinity

>>86555190
DC can't give her another book because she can't carry a one.

>>86555274
What I'm saying is that co-leading a single series isn't that big of a push.

>>86555234
>Barbara
She is Dick's age, anon.

And honestly, she deserves to be one of Gotham's Trinity more than Batwoman.

>>86555307
especially for one arc

>>86555307
That the best they can give her because she doesn't fit anywhere else.

>>86554997
>Lois and Clark are supposed to be together

You OTP guys are the cancer that ruins everything. We can't ever try anything new cause you guys have to have everything exactly one way. I think SM/WW is over but all this "It has to be this way" shit honestly ruins everything.

>>86555312
She certainly doesn't act like it.

>>86554490

Needs the M shape on the boots still

>>86555379

Lois and Clark goes beyond OTP status

>>86555348
Her solo ran for forty issues.

Maybe it could've lasted longer if editorial and Andreyko hadn't butchered it.
Hell, it's the only context where she thrives.

Being an asshole loner is wired into the character the way casuals pretend it is for Batman.

>>86555425
Her book only sold above cancellation level for as long as it did because of the star artist
Even then it started selling worse when JW3 was on it despite selling the same as Nightwing/Batgirl due to not having crossovers.

>>86555379
Getting rid of his relationship with Lois is like removing his cape or his human parents.
It's part of the character.

>>86555402
>Lois and Clark goes beyond OTP status

lol

It's old and done status. There's literally like 80 years of that shit already. It's time for something new.

>>86555379

Trying something new is seeing Supermans relationship grow and mature. First they were married and now they're married parents. Scrapping that so he can fuck Wonder Woman was absurd

>>86555467
>Her book only sold above cancellation level for as long as it did because of the star artist
The star artist who alternated arcs and was kicked off the book entirely more than a year before cancellation.

>>86555499
That reminds me, has Chris come up at all?

Seems like they might occasionally spare a thought for their adopted, dead first son.

>>86555469
>It's part of the character.

Dude can be superman all day long without having a specific girlfriend.

>>86555499
>Trying something new is seeing Supermans relationship grow and mature

lol, as if we haven't seen Superman married for decades. There's nothing new about the same old shit.

>Scrapping that so he can fuck Wonder Woman was absurd

Doesn't have to be Diana. It just can't be Lois. I'm tired of that shit. When the dust settles, you guys are going to remember that you are too.

>>86555425
What does this have to do with me saying that DC is trying to push her?

Her book didn't last and she can't carry another right now which is why DC put her in TEC (a book DC pushing so hard) so she can gain the fans support.

Since rebirth started, they quickly started to call her one of Gotham most important hero despite the fact she did nothing to earn her that and she doesn't even stand out.

>>86555576
Nobody really had any complaint about their relationship before the reboot.

Being in a stable, loving marriage is something that sets Superman apart from other major superheroes.
More so now that he's also a dad.

I wonder if DC will ever wise up and stop reboots?

They're completely pointless. No matter how much they change the beginning all you guys want to read are the same exact stories.

>>86555679
Someone will fall for this.

>>86554266
>>86554490
It's so much damn blue.

Like, I understand the stupid reasoning behind ditching the trunks.
But the boots? Are they mad?

What I don't like is that we have this older, experienced Superman back, but the history of everything he experienced is now "gone" and everyone else is younger still. Now he's much older and wiser than Batman and Wonder Woman. It's just so mismatched.

I'm pretty sure Superbro will come back later though. There's no reason they can't coexist. If there's one pre-Flashpoint character whose story should keep continuing, it's Superman, but it doesn't have to be at the expense of the cohesion of the current timely.

>>86555825
Don't forget that Rebirth ain't over.
Everyone who isn't Superman and his family is still missing time/memories.
Even Wally is still younger than he should be.

There's also the mystery of who/what New 52 Superman (and Lois) was.

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>>86554266
Batman. Snyder was literally unreadable. I hated autistic Bruce.

>>86555825
>There's no reason they can't coexist
Yes there's.

>>86554490
Honestly, I didn't notice his boots were blue in OP's image. So I'm no longer on the red boots team.

>>86554304
The cast of Watchmen

>>86556042
They aren't showing up /tv/. Read a comic you bitch about sometime.

>Good comics
>Good sales
>Optimism on the rise
What's the worst thing that can tarnish Rebirth?

>>86556163
BS death forced down our throat.

>>86556072
>this faggot doesn't know the real DCU spoilers
Gotham and Gotham Girl are Dan and Laurie

Deathstroke is The Comedian

Rorschach is dead

Mr. Oz is Adrian

t. Bob Harras' journal

>>86556163
well a lot of the books i thought had okay to good first 1-3 issues either got worse or didn't improve so that guess?
still gonna wait and see until blue beetle or wonder woman get better

>>86554266
Black Wally. Simon Baz.

>>86556163
King's Batman remaining as bad as it is

>>86554997
Lois and Clark being together doesn't automatically make the book good you moron.

>>86556616
Didn't say it did. All I said was that Diana's line about Lois and Clark being together feeling true was good.
Superman is one of DC's best books right now though.

Biggest surprises of Rebirth so far

>Green Lanterns not being shit and actually being a fun buddy-cop romp
>New Superman being amazing and Kenan being incredibly likeable for how big of an egotistical shit his character is
>Earth 2 for still not being cancelled for some godforsaken reason

>>86554439
Disagree wholeheartedly on Tim. Even if Detective isn't a 10/10 book, it's a humongous improvement over what he'd been doing before which was fucking nothing.

>>86556187
Pandora died for our sins.

>>86556199
No they arent you fucking retard. Go away.

>>86556692
Pandora was a mistake that never paid off. We're better off without her.

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>>86556163
The first event of Rebirth has been bad so far.

And I'm just here waiting for Batman to get better because I lost hope in detective.

>>86556720
>The first event
You mean the Batbook crossover?

>>86554637
Jessica was decent from the start, Simon's really great lately.

>>86555679
(you)

>>86556681
He was literally put in limbo, anon.

>>86556783

Alright. Question. Would you want one good story and be put in limbo or... have Scott Lobdell continue churning out shit stories of said character?

>>86556753
Yup. I just can't help but feel very disappointed in bat books.

>>86556680
earth 2 isn't canceled because they need to fill a last trade

>>86556807
Characterfags would prefer the latter as they do not care about quality.

>>86556820
Well you have bad taste and probably enjoyed Snyder's run. I'm sorry he warped your perception so badly.

>>86556820
Admittedly this is autism, but that's not an event, anon. It's a crossover. Event's get their own books. Crossovers take place across multiple existing books.

>>86554266

Superman and Green Arrow.

>>86554304

Duke. I can't even recall what his freaking codename is. He's just.. there as "Batwing" light and that experiment blew up in DC's faces when they made the identity for Luke Fox.

The only reason Duke gets a pass is because Snyder is shoving him down our throats and because of that other Batman writers have to use him.

>>86556783
And? That's better than being continued to be shit on. He had a good exit, we know he'll be back, and when he does it'll be fantastic because it'll tie into the Rebirth event. How can you prefer that to Generic Teen Titans Shitfest #7?

>>86556841
Yeah, the first Rebirth event is JL vs SS.

>>86554559
It's also giving me good Joe Kelly vibes too, cunt.

>>86554266
Still waiting for Question.

No more ancient magical asshole, no more slimy government stooge, just The Question.

>>86554815
>>86556903

I love comfy Superman. I also love Byrne Superman. And jackass Silver Age Superman. And For The Man Who Has Everything sad Superman.


But I also love MoS and BvS Superman, and when people say "OH MAN SUPERMAN IS FINALLY BACK!!!!!!" or "THIS IS THE REAL SUPERMAN!" it jus reeks of casuals that have very limited exposure to the 75+ years of Superman.

>>86556807
Lobdell hasn't been writing Tim for a long time, anon. So your question is kind of pointless.

I wanted Tim to be developed and get the chance to grow as a character in Tec instead of having him in "dead, but not really" situation which will eventually make him be forgotten by the fans.

>>86556935
>I also love MoS and BvS Superman
Respectfully, I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you.

>>86556968
for what reason? Why cant you accept a Superman that makes mistakes and grows? God, you are the worst kind of "not muh"

>>86556820
I've been digging the King Bats and Tomasi Supes and a few others but I was wholely disappointed in the Bat 7 & Nightwing 5 issues for Monster Men too. The dialogue felt like a hammer of obviousness ringing on my brain. Illustrations were solid, and having the same writer do scripting for both books would have been a great move if the whole event didn't feel heartless and vapid imo.

>>86556993
Anon, that's your assumptive opinion and you're entitled to it. We've got a good thread going. I've seen what happens to good threads the moment anons discuss why they feel any particular way about any facet of the DCEU for years at this point. I'm not doing it. Once again, respectfully, I'm just going to agree to disagree.

>>86556993
Reads comment that respectfully disagrees
Rage is the only answer

>>86555379

I'm pretty sure in Superman first appearance in Action Comics Lois was there.

As another poster said it would be like getting rid of his cape.

Sure, you can do it for a bit, but eventually you gotta go back to how it's meant to be.

I'm really digging Superdad though. It feel like a really nice and natural progress of his character.

>>86557061
>>86557047
He just disregarded my entire post because I liked something he didn't. And now he refuses to actually explain why he disagrees.

>>86554266
Superbro was fine you idiot.

>>86556935
What Superman stories does MOS and BvS remind you of besides shitty ones like Superman Earth One?

>>86556938

Regardless, it's because of Lobdell churning out shitty story after shitty story in his entire run of Teen Titans. Heck he was even given the opportunity to write an epilogue of sorts.

The point is do you want your character to be in limbo and just be that character you adored. Or.. do you want a horrible writer to get their mits on them and destroy everything you adored about said character month in and month out until no one cares anymore?

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>>86556820
>Batman is so-so (I still hope for it to be better)
>Nightwing is so-so
>Detective Comics is meh
>Batgirl and BoP is bad
>All Star Batman is meh
>Batgirl is meh
>Batman Beyond "literally who cares?"
I know what you means, anon.

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>>86557047

Not that poster. But I also like Man of Steel and Batman v Superman Superman. But I'm also loving Superman in Rebirth, both in Action Comics and Superman. And I got to say I'm giving you the (you) because you're treating people having different interpretations of the character with dignity and respect.

>>86557122
Byrne's Man of Steel, and I like that they played up the death of Zod angel and actually made it part of his character growth instead of something every future writer ignores.
Birthright since they took whole scenes from it to develop Pa and Clark's relationship, and lifted their Luthor from it visually, while going further into the golden/silver age crazy scientist aspect.
The Dark Knight Returns (technically a Batman comic but it heavily features Superman) since BvS is basically the reverse of it (Batman is the reactionary stooge instead of Superman, shows how bad Batman would get without Superman instead of the other way around, etc.)
Obviously The Death and Return of Superman, but only on the most superficial level


For The Man Who Has Everything/Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow (sans the Silver Age send off obv), since it mainly focuses on how whats most important to Superman's personal life are his friends, loved ones, and family.

>>86555528
they've been pretty vague about when in the pre-Flashpoint continuity are Clark and Lois from to my knowledge, wouldn't be surprised if they were taken from pre-New Krypton continuity

>>86556938
>I wanted Tim to be developed and get the chance to grow as a character in Tec instead of having him in "dead, but not really" situation which will eventually make him be forgotten by the fans.
this is probably only going to be for a year or two at the most you goof

>>86557083
Not true at all. I read your post. The facet I highlighted in my opinion summarized, on top of the previous opinion you expressed about not liking Rebirth Superman, that you and I have different preferences, and that we can sit here trying to make the other come to our way of thinking, or we can simply realize that if we do so, we'll try for awhile, eventually become uncivil, and in the end accomplish nothing. You like something different than I do. That's not a crime. There is nothing wrong with your doing so, and frankly, I'm not so bothered by it that I'm willing to spend hours debating you over it. It's a lot easier for me to jump to where we'll eventually wind up, which is an acknowledgment that we like different things, and have not changed our positions, and skip the rudeness that every debate over the DCEU or differing versions of Superman eventually descends into, than it is to partake, and say unkind things to someone I don't know well enough to be comfortable doing so to. So, once again. Respectfully, I'm just going to agree to disagree.

>>86557177
Thanks anon.

>>86557141
Your point is still make no sense. Lobdell failed with Tim (TT was doomed before N52 started anyway) and currently he is no where near him or even care about writing him again. Also, the guy is doing a good with Red Hood right now.

Tim got the chance to be written well in Rebirth, but it was taken away from him and got thrown in limbo instead

>>86554304
>it's dick
Fucking sad. He was doing amazing then they had to ruin a good thing.

>>86557272
You think year or two is a short time, anon?

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Whenever you see a comics guy mad about red shorts, red boots, or any change to the status quo in any way, just remember. They can't help themselves. Autism is a real thing and a lot of comics fans have it.

If it's not exactly like it was when they first started reading it, it's bad and they're going to have an episode. Some episodes last 5 years.

>>86557427
by comics standards it pretty much is

>>86554266
definitely deathstroke

Okay, I feel compelled to ask

What's so bad about the new Nightwing?

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I will say in my opinion the worst Superman Silver Age Superman.

When people talk of Superman being a boring character they're talking about Silver Age Superman; and do a lesser extent they're also talking about Dick Donner Superman (Christopher Reeves).

In my humble opinion Byrne saved Superman with his Man of Steel run, without that the character would of stayed as a terribly lame Mary Sue. While I wouldn't be surprised if there are some okay or even good Silver Age Superman stories the character is by and large fucking terrible.

Pic related is a more interesting Superman than Donner Superman. Is it the only way to view Superman? Hell no. Do I enjoy other interpretations of Superman? Hell yes. As said before I'm loving the shit out of both Superman Rebirth books.

But I'll also admit I feel bad for people who got into Superman with Superbro, and I hope they'll be satisfied with his return in an eventual Crisis. But you might have to wait 23 years like Barry fags had to.

>>86557399
desu Lobdell isn't writing Red Hood any differently than he did before really.

>WAHHHH, YOU GUYS DON'T LIKE SUPERBRO, YOU GUYS JUST HATE CHANGE

But we love Jon Kent, and giving Superman a son is one of the biggest status quo shifts Superman's had in decades

>OKAY BUT YOU STILL SUCK BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE CHANGES I LIKED

well atleast nubo is gone and the old lobo is back

why is /co/ DC territory now?

>>86557628
>But we love Jon Kent

You love Jon because it's an over course correction. You get the good old fashioned status quo back in Lois and Clark and Jon is the pin in it.

There's been a dozen superboys it seems. This one will eventually be forgotten too and you know it. I want that to settle on your like a hair shirt.

>>86557606
He isn't writing Jason differently than before yeah (and he doesn't need to because he writes Jason well), but he is doing a better job in introducing the new Outlaws and the book has a stronger start than the previous one.

>>86557696
Because Marvel is tumblr territory.

>>86557696
>why is /co/ DC territory

Cause Marvel is fucking up. They're killing off and replacing all the original avengers. They've gone as far as to replace non-avenger characters with any slight popularity with time displaced history clean versions as if people wanted that shit.

They're just fucking dumb.

>>86554490
I actually like the blue boots, it makes it look more consistent. Without the trunks the boots are the only really solid red on his body, they look out of place, like they're tacked on. The blue looks more fluid.

>>86557347
You have more become my favorite person in this entire site. Good on you for defusing (or trying to defuse) the situation and not allow it to spiral to shit...

Lets see if other anon follows suit.

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>>86557696

Because Marvel is shitting the bed.

Civil War II is one of the most shameless and horribly written events in a long line of shitty events coming out of Marvel. They're so caught up in the MCU that they're basically fucking their comics line to try and have synergy with the movies.

Mark my words; when Avengers: Infinity Gauntlet comes out they'll do Infinity Gauntlet II if they haven't gotten their act together by then.

so how long until we see an animated dc rebirth movie?

>>86557835

2 years from now.

>>86557083
If everyone explained why BvS was terrible every time it was asked we would waste like at least 5% of our total time on earth explaining it.

>>86557803
I concure

>>86557715
I miss conner.
The Real one.

>>86557835
A few months after whatever movies are on the docket at the time whatever plot that reveals and covers the defeat of whatever force removed the 10 years from the timeline are released.

>>86556860

Yep, Snyder is Bendising Duke all over everyone's asses.

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>>86557908

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>>86554266
Surprised no one has mentioned Clayface yet.

>>86557908
>I miss conner.
>The Real one.

Well you're in luck. Wait a few months and Jon will kick the bucket. He'll choke on a pretzel or something. Then the door will open to reveal (other superboy) and Lois and Clark will say that it just feels right.

>They never really liked that other guy anyway.

>>86557151
Have hope, anon.
Duggan/Posehn Deadpool didn't get good until after the first arc.

>>86555225
Everyone is building up their relationships from zero again. It's not just Superman. The entire DCU was fucked up by New 52.

>>86554490
Needs the trunks and it's complete

>>86557957

He's a gem and the next arc is gonna hit me more in the feels since he's the other co-star of it besides Stephanie.

>>86557957
>Clayface takes a liking for Tim Drake when alt universe Annie memories come through due to Dr Manhattan space time magic.
>He's now a good guy

>>86558105
Shame. I have that edit, but I just left my computer that has it. Been posted a few times. Maybe another anon has it.

I'm new to this comic reading.
Can someone help me with the order of all these comics?

For example: Does the new Flash Rebirth pieces fit with the still ongoing Flash series?
Same with all others.
And why isn't there coming out new Rebirth #2 etc? Or if it has, where?

WHY ISN'T THERE SOME LIST SOMEWHERE THAT HELPS WITH CHRONOLOGY?

>>86557944
Man, this series was really good.

It cutting cut so short was one of the big losses in the initial reboot.

DC Rebirth is a one-shot thing that serves as an introduction to some of the changes being made to the New 52 DC.

The books are all self-contained and standalone unless stated otherwise, in which they will advertise HEY YOU SHOULD PROBABLY BE READING THIS ISSUE TO in big apparent graphics in the issue you have.

tl;dr stop stressing the fuck out and just download what you're interested in and read it before you buy it.

>>86558212
Rebirth was and will remain just a single-issue release.

Then some series started with their own Rebirth issues (Rebirth: Superman, Rebirth: Green Arrow) before launching normally (Superman #1, Green Arrow #1).
It's a little dumb, I agree.

Most one-shots, like all the Rebirth issues, tend to be labelled #1 even though there will never be a #2.

>>86558302
I wanna read from Rebirth onward.
No offshoot universe edition, but I don't know what is what.

Like there's batman Rebirth #1 Then Batman #1 with "Rebirt"h on it, but Batman #2 doesn't have "Rebirth" on its cover?

Why is there two Batman #1?

>>86558327
Ohkeey.

Completely logical.

>>86558363

"Rebirth" overall just refers to the DCU as a whole to signify that major changes in tone, direction and continuity occur past that point.

So anything you read from DC is now "from Rebirth onwards".

the "Rebirth" titles for each series just deal with an introduction to those changes. Think of it like a #0 issue that is typically used to fill in backstory in between story arcs.

>>86558376
Giving a series two first issues means it'll sell first issue numbers, twice.

Wally's my number 1 too, but Ray Palmer follows behind too. It's good to see he's got his classic style back.


The current status set up by Rebirth seems to indicate that he's now a mix of the Silver Age and the late eighties, without Identity Crisis or the de-aging shit having happened. That's a huge step-up from pRebirth.

>>86558403
>>86558409
Then there's "ongoing" from before rebirth, but not part of rebirth, or are they?

They just want you to get a meltdown so that you buy everything.

>>86558443

Or you can just know what characters and creative teams you enjoy and not stress out over continuity.

>>86558443
You mean books that are just continuing?
I think that's just Earth 2 and the digital-first books.

Or do you mean the relaunched titles that didn't actually change creative teams, like Rebirth and Harley Quinn?
In that case it's just about increasing sales.
At least they made it a completely fresh starting point.
Well, Green Arrow did. Couldn't possibly care about the HQ book.

And if you're buying stuff because you feel like you have to, you're doing it wrong.
Just buy what you like. And if you like it, there's no reason to feel annoyed about buying it.

>>86554266
Amanda waller (admitidly she may have improved during the new 52 i droped the book after everybody is a sleeper agent lol )
>>86554304
Batwomans father or maybe lex luthor (im mad they threw away his ruler of apokalips plot but i have not read enough of him yet to know if he has really gotten worse)

>>86557579
>But you might have to wait 23 years like Barry fags had to.
I don't believe it will be that long. Superbro's death ties directly into the current status quo which involves New Super-Man and SuperWoman. Once these stories are exhausted, the previous status quo will return. I give it a year or so. Two years if the currently running superbooks sell well.

I equate the Superdad arc to the New Krypton arc. Its purpose is to shake things up, keep things from going stale. No more, no less.

>>86558700

He's still in the suit the made for him on Apokalips. There's no reason he isn't still the King of Apokalips, but obviously Darkseid will be back once he gets over being an infant and the son of his daughter.

>>86559092
No, I'm pretty sure it was actually said he gave all of that up in Justice League #52.

>>86559157
Yeah he came back when he heard there was a new supes.

I really hope they dont discard babyseid as well.

ITT: Characterfags
You all are cancer and I hope your character is written by Lobdell next.

>>86557347
I never said I don't like rebirth superman, I said I love him, I'm just saying the people who are like "the real superman is back!" are just as terrible as OTPers

>>86557122
so you got nothing to say to
>>86557263

>>86560603
So in your mind a characterfag is anyone who likes any character?

>>86557572
nothing really, other than being nightwing again

>>86557741
His Jason is awful, though

>>86554266
Better
Deathstroke
Superman
Batwoman

that's about it

Worse
Jessica Cruz
the Justice League
Huntress
Duke

Doesn't count as improvement because they're still shitty
Red Hood
Green Arrow
Tim Drake

>>86554266
Jason Todd. It's amazing Lobdell hasn't shit the bed with him yet.

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I'm not going to lie, many of the books can be considered significant upgrades.

Percy brought his A-Game to Green Arrow.
TOmasi is killing it on Superman.
Lobdell has yet to write a terrible issue of Red Hood (I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop).
Detective Comics and All Star Batman are the most enjoyable the character has been in a while.
Flash is surprisingly solid (not great, but definitely a fun read). So many to choose from.

Also pic related is my favorite Jason Moment so far.

>>86557572
It's not Grayson, basically.

The entire book so far is Seeley taking a massive shit on everything Nightwing, which I personally love, but not everyone can get with it.

Just look at all the shit Nightwing ongoings had to deal with:
>Randomly tying in Owl OCs to Dick's origin story, and then having him take a backseat to the actual conflict with the Owls
>Bruce is always shitting on Dick for some reason and Dick is always either taking it and crying or walking away and crying (New 52's Nightwing #30 had Nightwing beat Batman's ass, that was fun)
>Bludhaven is just Gotham-lite, Nightwing is just Batman-lite
>Dick never gets interesting villains, at most he gets stuck with C-list Bat-villains, while other Bat-characters and Green Arrow take from his villains
>constantly having a will-they-won't-they relationship with Babs

And then, you have all the good things about Dick that Seeley uses:
>Dick has been Batman before so he knows his shit and Bruce doesn't say anything aside from encouragement and the occasional suggestion
>Dick and Damian were the latest and potentially greatest Dynamic Duo
>Dick being a circus kid and how that makes him different from other heroes
>Dick has an established and extremely competent group of friends outside of the Batfamily and the Titans in Superman, Midnighter, Tiger, Huntress, etc.

So basically, you get a book about Bruce treating Dick like an equal, Dick chilling with Damian in his down time, Dick absolutely demolishing the plans of the Parliament of Owls in 4 issues, use of obscure and new, weird villains, addressing the difference in class between people like Dick and Bruce and Barbara and what makes Nightwing unique, etc.

In addition to that, you get Dick verbally smacking Bruce's ass the second Bruce tries to criticize Dick, Barbara yelling at Dick like an idiot for no reason and having Dick give no shits about it (effectively moving the will-they-won't-they shit out of the way), remaking Bludhaven, etc.

>>86554304
Colonel Kane not supporting his daughter 100% is completely out of character.

>>86561308
Steph putting out for Tim is also out of character

>>86561287
>Dick teaching Damian how to sucker punch Bruce

>>86561146
Duke was shitty beforehand though

>>86561308
>>86561423
Detective Comics is shit, basically.
Tynion is poison to the Batfamily.

>>86561471
He was fine in We Are Robin and Robin War, because he had a unique role, and they treated him as someone who wasn't good enough to be a real superhero, but rather just an everyman

>>86561492
That's what happens when you're the protege of Snyder.

>>86554785

I never really cared for Jason until this precise issue. I like the concept and the humor so far.

>>86554266
I like how Gleason is slowing fixing the shitty version of the suit they went with instead of the original one he designed.

Now the belt is fully encircling him instead of whatever that design was before. Next will be the boots. Then the trunks

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>>86561947
It was a damn shame the Gleason design wasn't the one chosen

>>86562205
both gleason and jimenez have joined my ranks of favourite superman artists along with gary frank

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>>86554490
Here's the superior version

>>86557513
>Change in inherently good
Fuck off

>>86563752
Goddammit why does that look so good

>>86557961
Doubtful. Damian is still around even after Morrison killed him. If freaking Batman can stay a dad, Superman can too.

>>86558740
>I equate the Superdad arc to the New Krypton arc. Its purpose is to shake things up, keep things from going stale. No more, no less.
Then you've got it all wrong. Superdad is here to return to the "classic" feel. It's Superbro who was designed to shake things up.

>>86563849
The red breaks up the blue of his suit giving your eyes somewhere to go.

>>86563752
Literally perfect.

>>86562205
Fuck that looks great. Fuck Lee.

>>86557062
Lois wasn't his girlfriend in the first issue or majority of history if we ignore post crisis. I always thought of Lois as the endgame, not as a permanent status quo. Their relationship was boring. Lois as Superwife was boring throughout the 90s and early 2000s.

>>86554266
>Liking Tomasi's cape books
Superfags have the worst taste.

Deathstroke is the most improved. Any other answer is objectively wrong.

>>86556935
>Byrne's Superman
>MoS
>BvS
Is it possible to have a more shitty taste?

>>86564726
A Superman fan loving various versions of Superman? Ludicrous!

>>86564046
>Superdad is here to return to the "classic" feel. It's Superbro who was designed to shake things up.

This, oh so much this.

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>>86563826
Lol. Just like I pointed out. You guys are still bitching about his underwear and trying to act as if this isn't part of the longest autistic meltdown in years.

Change *is* good. It's a lot better than retelling the same exact shit ever 3 years to keep people from screaming in the floor by a long shot.

> DC. Reboot.

So ok. What we're going to do is change the character's back story. Follow? Instead of doing (X,Y, and Z), things changed and he never got a chance to (X), he failed at (Y) and as such (A and B ) happened. It's really going to change things up.

"So what does that change about the character?"

Lol, change? Fucking change, are you retarded?

...

You guys need to know where the story is going. Hell, you don't even care about that really because nothing is even allowed to progress passed a certain point. They're going nowhere. You demand the same middle.

As such, the majority of comics will never change. It will be the exact same shit for another 75 years. They'll keep mixing and matching parts of the beginning if the story because that's the only thing you'll let them tinker with.

Comics are fine, it's the fans who are a mistake.

>>86557814
Very obnoxious post, my woman.

>>86561443
love it.

>>86566533
Change would be good if change in comic books didn't just mean dredging something up from 20-30 years ago and slathering it in a new coat of paint so nostalgiafags can act like something interesting is happening.

Wake me up when Death and Return of Superman 3 is done with. Had my fill of that when I was a kid.

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Sorry for posting this Trinity #2 variant in a wrong thread.

>>86566701
BASED CHO, BUYING SEVENTEEN COPIES

>>86566718
this

>>86566533
Yep, change is always good which is why everyone loved what DC did with the Teen Titans, Bronze Tiger, Lady Shiva, Lobo, the Creeper, Harley Quinn, and countless other fan favorites in the New 52.

>>86555494
If you're asking for something new, why bother with Superman/Clark Kent at all? You get what you come for: feel good, inspiration, farmboy good guy antics and the occasional gasp as Superman goes to rescue someone. And maybe you get a big hitter in event comics.

"Something new" being breaking up a romance that's so set is weird. It's like someone who has a divorce fetish. It's a strange thing to have. Are you really going to go to your parents or your girlfriend and go "There's literally like 80 years of that shit already. It's time for something new" and tell them to find other significant others?

If I didn't know any better, I'd be accusing you as one of those NarutoHarem fetishist/writers. Don't know a healthy relationship when they see one.

>>86566701
She looks like she's squatting to piss.

>>86563752

I'd buy you a beer if I could. Good man.

>>86555140
>Gotham's Trinity
Batman and who else? There's about a zillion heroes in Gotham nowadays and 50% of them are being shilled to all hell.

>>86566701
>Cavill
Based

>>86555971
No there's not.

>>86557908
Dont worry, he's with Tim and Bart right now

>>86554266
I like the blue boots. I even think it's better than the red boots.

>>86563752
I love this so much.

>>86563752
You people just can't let go

>>86567199

I think it's meant to be Batman, Nightwing, and Batwoman.

But the concept of there being a trilogy is dumb.

Gotham is Batman's city. If it weren't for Batman no one would give a fuck about his supporting cast.

>>86567620
>You people just can't let go

Did you check out the Flintstones thread? There's some dudes in there no shit going "not muh Fred." There's a large portion of comics dudes who are completely broken. Anything new, no matter how inconsequential has to be bad.

>>86567753

That's a new level of autism.

>>86567767
>That's a new level of autism.

This place needs a team of researchers honestly. Think of all the things they could learn.

>>86554815
"comfy" has come to mean "has no real quantifiable value, but I put it on a pedestal because it's familiar and easygoing". I'll pass.

>>86556935
This. The problem is, Superman's fans have been destroyed by Snyder. They've lost any semblance of what Superman actually should be, because they've never really known. Should we really trust a bunch of grown men who read comics for children to understand good character structure? Superman struggled for decades to escape being an archetype; a cliched boy scout who was little more than a cape and a symbol to most people. I think many authors have managed to find a happy medium, but Snyder decided to explore something entirely different, and that just pissed people off. In their rage and spite, they now all embrace the original cliche of Superman. A guy in red underwear who always wins and always finds "another way". Yawn.

I always say that if Snyderman had been done in the '90s, people would have fucking loved it, but our market right now is fucking oversaturated in nostalgia. Just look at almost any form of media; movies, TV, books, even video games. Remakes, reboots and re-imaginings are at an all-time high. People who were kids during the '90s and loved experiencing new and exciting shit are now becoming adults. They're realizing that the adult world sucks and they take comfort in the familiar. They are desperate to hold onto whatever remains of their childhood. They don't want their media to be interesting or new. They want it to be "comfy". It's why the Marvel movies are making a killing. Even if people didn't read the comics as kids, the movies are easygoing, and they all feel the same. They're familiar and inoffensive, and people will gladly pay their $12.50 to sit through 2 hours of something that they feel they won't challenge or confuse them if they shut their brains off. Rebirth is basically the same thing.

>>86564726
>it's now cool to hate on Byrne
What fucking world have I walked into?

Titans for being most improved team book.

>>86566743
People don't always love what is good for them. Surprise.

>>86566771
It's funny because Superman often has this narrative of "striving to become something more", yet most hardcore fans just want him to stagnate and be the same, boring character that people always accused him of being. Superman has a lot of potential, and he's easily one of the most recognized fictional characters ever created. The fact that he's mostly viewed as a shallow cliche is a fucking shame.

>>86566771
>"Something new" being breaking up a romance that's so set is weird.

If two people never date it's not a break up.

> It's like someone who has a divorce fetish.

If two people aren't married they don't have a divorce.

>Are you really going to go to your parents or your girlfriend and go...

You guys really don't see that letting characters *after a reboot* do different things is different than breaking up or kicking your wife out of your house. I think that on some level, you guys don't understand what reboots are.

My point has always been that if you change someone's history their present and future should change too. You guys think and argue endlessly that any deviation from where they went last time is breaking up a marriage. It's so dumb.

Using real life: if my mother died when I was a kid I'd be in a different place now. It wouldn't be a "break up" with my fiance. I'd probably have never met her. There's nothing fetishist about this.

Unless you consider the alternative definition of the word. The slavish devotion the way the story was told in the 40s is kind of dogmatic.

>>86568291
People have been hating on Byrne's Superman since it came out. Only Byrnefags and people who started reading with post crisis liked him at the time.

>>86568371
None of those changes were good for any of them. They went against what those characters are about.

You would have been better off creating a new character although than trying to pass them off as a new take on an old favorite.

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>>86568291
>"comfy" has come to mean "has no real quantifiable value, but I put it on a pedestal because it's familiar and easygoing"

>>86569036
They have been revamping Superman every decade since the 60s. The post crisis Superman most people grew up was a very different take and undoing of the previous version.

>>86569036
>what those characters are about
I honestly didn't read a lot of those books because I didn't care about the characters in the first place, but judging by most people's definition of what Superman is "about", I'd have to say you people are probably wrong, and just couldn't get past superficial changes to realize that something more interesting was happening underneath.

>>86568291
>I always say that if Snyderman had been done in the '90s, people would have fucking loved it
Ah yes. The 90's. That bastion of comics ideas that seemed great at the time that have gone on to become nearly universally panned and greeted with the question, "What the fuck were they thinking?" You're more right than you might have realized. Snyderman would have fit wonderfully there.

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>>86568291
>this entire post

>>86568291
Byrne was the Bendis of his time. He disregarded years of continuity to turn the characters into his version. He shat pretty hard on Superman mythos and did the same with Spider-man, Etrigan, WW and Doom Patrol. He had a couple of good books as a writer, but majority of books he wrote were dumpster fire with no regards to continuity.

>>86563752
While I would prefer the red trunks, and most artists seem to basically just draw the trunks and the colourist simply doesn't colour them red now, I think the blue at the waist could work, if the red belt included more yellow to break it up and add the third primary colour.

>>86556935
So long as Superman continues to try and help people and be a good person I'll like him. But I agree with your complaint about the fans. Reading through the threads for the new comics have been painful. I actually enjoyed Nu52 Superman, watching him grow as a character and build relationships with characters, good and bad, was a great ride. Watching almost all of that be washed away and basically forgotten hurts and seeing all these fans just discounting him as not the real thing and expressing happiness that he's gone hurts even more. Honestly the last bastion of hope I see is Batman who, although he keeps getting called an asshole for it, is unwilling to just move on from Superman to Superdad. It's actually made me respect Batman even more considering how other characters seem to have just gotten over it. Although it's sad knowing Supes only had one or two real friends

>>86554559
all star superman will always be best superman but superdad is ok.

>>86569380

But that's not muh and a reasonable compromise! BURN HIM

>>86569005
>Only Byrnefags and people who started reading with post crisis liked him at the time.

Holy fucking hell, how in denial ARE you? Like him or hate him, Byrne's run received MASSIVE critical and commercial acclaim, and set the tone for the next 20 fucking years of Superman comics. It wasn't until after Infinite Crisis that Superman comics started to veer (slightly) away from the precedent Byrne set and back towards the silver age.

The three most influential Superman writers of all time are Jerry Siegel, Otto Binder, and John motherfucking Byrne.

>>86559157
I'm unsure on that. Haven't read Superwoman, but I think they're actually continuing the plot there.
Also, Lex still has his motherbox and uses it in his Supersuit.

>>86571942
Not the same anon, but Byrne was a famous name at the time due to his Marvel days and it was the sole reason for him to be writing Superman. Being influential doesn't mean good, mostly when the period Byrne inspired was the start of decline of Superman's popularity as well a decade of mediocre Superman comics. Snyder's Batman and Johns' JL are seen as commercial and critical success; Snyder will be even seen as an influential Batman writer, but it doesn't make them any good.

>>86572247
>mostly when the period Byrne inspired was the start of decline of Superman's popularity

Reverse that, anon. Superman's popularity in the comics flagged massively in the seventies and early eighties. Byrne's run and the runs that succeeded it were massively successful, culminating in the Death and Return of Superman, which sold a shit-tillion comics. It wasn't until Superman Blue in the late nineties that interest started to wane.

>>86554266
>Improved Character
Superman never changed
>inb4 New 52 Superman
No longer cannon

>>86572426
>No longer cannon
Explain.

>>86572402
>culminating in the Death and Return of Superman, which sold a shit-tillion comics.
Which even DC would tell you it was meant to do, because Death of Superman was done as a stunt to get people who had stopped giving a shit about the character to do so again. Hardly sounds like Byrne made the character great again. If he had, DoS wouldn't have needed to be written.

>>86572426
>Superman never changed
But that's not true anon. Superdad has had a way higher penchant for violence since he has shown himself even to go as far as strike first against a Luthor who hadn't actually done anything wrong, and work with the government against Arthur. Now if you think that's Superman behaviour I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

>No longer cannon
What are you even talking about? Have you seen batman? He's gone full "Not Muh"

>>86554304
I wanted to say Azrael since he's been dead for fucking ever, but then again he's now an amalgamation of Lane and Jean-Paul. So this can't end well for him.

>>86572402
As the other anon said, DC had to pull gimmicks to keep the sales high. But apart from that, Byrne wrote out 50 years of Superman and replaced them with his own elements. Even if new 52 was just as much as failure in terms of making Superman relevant, at least Morrison's reboot modernized past concepts and respected his history and mythos instead of wiping them clean. It's a shame other writers didn't follow.

>>86572827
Believe it or not, Byrne himself admitted (and I wish to God I could find the source for this) that rebooting Superman was a bad idea in hindsight for the bad precedent it set, and that he wished he could have done it differently so as to not wipe away pre-existing continuity. I don't if the reboot itself was his idea or if it was DC editorial, but I give him a lot of credit for saying that.

Reboots are a bad idea, no doubt. It was just lucky that Byrne's reboot turned out as well as it did.

>>86554266
Just put a little yellow in the 'buckle' and it'd be fine.

Jesus it shouldn't bug me so much, but it does... How can professional artists not realize such a basic fucking fix?!

>>86564698
Best post in this thread.

>>86556993
I can't accept a mute Superman.

>>86569170
You're fucking unbearbale, y'know that?

Hal Jordan and the Squad is a bit tighter than pre-Rebirth Venditti, which is nice. It's also more enjoyable now that the corps is coming back and it's not just Hal and his suffering.

I'm mostly looking forward to Hawkman/Adam Strange and the eventual LoSH crossover or comic or w/e, the Rebirth special seemed to imply that it is going to be a lot less depressing than the last run and I'm all for that.

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>>86567640
> Batman, Nightwing and Batwoman
Why have the inferior trinity when there is this option.