Are there really people who are blindsided by Steven's pacifism?

>>86058665
>giant robots shouldn't fight, NOT LIKE THIS!

>>86058665
i just want him to get STRONG and fight BIG BAD and have BIG FIGHTS

>>86058781
You're thinking of the Pokémon movie.

whats wrong with pacifism?
its not like we have a problem with "always angry, all the time" characters who solve all their problems with their fists

>>86058665
>doesn't like giant robot fights
Why is Steven such a faggot?

>>86058665
>Steven's pacifism?
>Steven
>pacifist
Steven is non violent, not a true pacifist. He will resort to violence if his life is in danger.

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>>86058923
>if you try to hurt them back what does that make you?
>a...hero?

Season 1 Steven is best Steven.

Steven is not a pacifist, he is a diplomat. his first instinct in general is to open a way o communication. People tend to forget that Steven does get angry, he was ready to poof peridot when he though she had betrayed them.

>>86058834
Yes, I am.

>>86058665
I like Stephen, but what he said right there made me cringe.

>>86058975
I don't remember that.

>>86058862
Pacifism is the dumbest fucking stance you could ever take because there is always a point in history where even the biggest pacifists go, "Oh shit, I guess violence is the only answer".

Look at World War II. Einstein hated all things war until he realized we had to get involved.

Pacifism just allows for people who don't agree with that stance to take advantage of you until you decide to ultimately break it, which Steven does quite frequently actually. He will engage in a fight against Jasper or who ever if pushed enough, so even Steven isn't a true pacifist.

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>>86058665
I feel it does get in the way of things, we'd be seeing a lot more cool battles if he'd stop jumping in the middle of things with a big bubbly stop sign

but it does make the violence we DO see a little more special

>>86058862
A true pacifist could be an interesting character. Unfortunately most "pacifism" in comics and cartoons isn't really a principled stance, just CCA/broadcast standards fake morality and liberal squeamishness/squeamishness about violence that is deemed "inappropriate" in self-serving ways (ie. that wielded by poor people and not the regretful but clearly necessary and restrained violence doled out by taser wielding cops and smart-bomb equipped fighter jets)

Jury's still out on whether or not Steven Universe deal with this in a satisfying way I think, I'd like to think better of the writers than that

>>86059642

I wonder if this picture is a mockery of the mindset, or if that picture was earnest in its message?

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>>86059891
copout answer: both

but really its the cutest version of an earnest answer to violence

read Tomboy, it's great

>>86059311
it was when steven wanted to prank lars with a donut covered in fire salt

>>86060249
oops, meant for >>86059361

>>86060600
That person doesn't represent the trans community, don't fucking drag us through the dirt. Jesus christ, what the fuck is wrong with you, who cares who watches those shows.

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>>86060600
>Posting this every thread

I was taken by suprise when they came out and said shattering pink fiamond was the right thing to do.
I was considering droping the show after the recent spat of bad episodes but a show just coming out and saying that made me stick with it.

>>86060944
They didn't say it was the right thing to do, just that it was in the best interest of the Earth.

>>86058781
>giant robots shouldn't fight, NOT LIKE THIS!
Suddenly I'm given Kira Yamato flashbacks.

Steven isn't a pacifist, he believes fighting is necessary to protect himself/other people but doesn't think violence should be the only answer. that pacifism isn't the only answer but talking to cognitive people before resorting to violence is always the best thing to do, even if it puts you at risk.

People get blindsided by the show actually being smart and presenting an alternate solution to bad situations that could also be solved by resorting to violence right away.

OP's pic was a joke though and if you don't get it you're probably autistic.

I really hope, if the show ever gets to this point, that Steven doesn't try to talk the diamonds into being good guys like he is for everyone else. I hope he realizes what Rose did to the pink diamond was the only choice, and he shatters the rest.

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>steven
>doesn't hate jasper, someone who wanted to kill his mom, imprison his family and almost shattered amethyst
>hates kevin, some random streetpunk who grinded up on him when he was fused one time

Does he not know how to pick his own battles?

>>86059542
Ghandi

your argument is invalid

>>86060600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-v1TTUyhM

>>86061414
I think we all know at this point that the majority of people in any audience are retarded morons with zero plot comprehension skills

>>86061558
Steven isnt that mature when it comes to dealing with people.

>>86061558
Only a fool or a woman hates those she fights, just because he fights them. Hating those you have to live with for their actions is perfectly natural and necessary to set your own agency.

>>86061558
to be fair, the point of the whole episode was that it was moronic to hate Kevin in the first place

also, he first encountered Kevin wile being fused with Connie, and it was implied that her thoughts and emotions got mixed-up with Steven's during the experience
And Connie is much less peaceful and forgiving than Steven

>>86061490
I don't think he'd be ever willing to shatter them
But he would probably poof them, and then bubble them for an indefinite amount of time

>>86061729
I'd be okay with that as long as he doesn't store them someplace that will have a "lol oops, I accidentally unbubbled them, guess we're doing this all over" moment.

Like, hell, teleport them into a star or something.

>>86058862
It's fucking boring as shit. Nobody wants to see a kid talk his way out of everything.

There are plenty of characters who don't like fighting in shows like this but still know they have to and Steven isn't a pussy all the time but he is a straight up cry baby loser 99% of the time who can only fight back when he turns into a manwoman with his small human girlfriend.

It also requires that the universe bends itself to Steven so he doesn't have to fight. When the gems are by themselves or with Steven you can get a fight. When it's just Steven you know there won't be a fight because he refuses to.

>Hello giant amalgamation of thousands and thousands of fucked up gem shards writhing in dark agony for year after year whose entire existence is hell
>Please stop being so angry maybe just look at the friends around you haha :^)
>YOU GOT IT STEVEN WE SHALL NOW STOP BEING A PLOT POINT LITTLE DUDE

This of course has nothing to do with pacifism as a whole or in real life but in a cartoon a pacifist character is usually boring and Steven in particular is a fucking boring a shit crybaby. I'm not trying to throw these buzzwords around either. He's a fat, crybaby, child who has all his problems solved by other people and any accomplishments he makes are as minor as can be and amount to "you didn't cry and give up during the mission good job Steven".

>>86061787
>It also requires that the universe bends itself to Steven so he doesn't have to fight.
To be fair, a lot of cartoons bend over backwards so that every conflict can be resolved by kicking the villain's ass.

>>86059542
>Einstein hated all things war until he realized we had to get involved

And instantly regretted it when the bomb was dropped.

>>86061844
Oh boofuckinghoo.

>>86061844
>And instantly regretted it when the bomb was dropped.

You mean when the war was won and he had the luxury to feel bad?

>>86061414
Thank you. I remember in Jail Break Steven even says to Lapis that they gotta go beat up the bad guys because "they hurt my friends THEY HURT MY FACE!" And I mean, Steven literally trains to fight every day. He keeps forming Stevonnie SO THEY CAN FIGHT BETTER.

That said, he doesn't actually want to murder anyone and is a peace-loving child. That doesn't even come close to making him a pacifist.

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>>86058665
>killed four dudes

and his mum, lest we forget, lads :^)

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>>86060600
>it thinks people care what it says

>>86061625
No, you just proved his argument? Ghandi took up weapons.

>>86062330
Fuck off.

>>86061844
Yes, he regretted having to use the bomb. But that's understandable he just took part in the glassing of a city.
But he still did it because he thought it was necessary.

Sometimes making the right decision still makes you feel like an ass hole.

>>86060600
Lol these guys need to leave the creators alone.
It's no wonder the show makers are disgusted by the fan-base.

>Steven Universe, of all shows, was the one to say it is ok to kill the bad guy some times

I wasn't expecting that

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>>86058862
>"Those who 'abjure' violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf."

>>86058665
Fucking Wander ruining a good Giant Robot battle.

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>>86059542
>a young boy who is incredibly sensitive to others around him doesn't like conflict because he sees it literally warp and change the people he cares about into awful people
>doesn't ever like to start a fight or finish it with violence because he feels it shouldn't come to that

Clearly this means the show is saying you should never fight ever let's all be care bears literally anyone who fights in a war is a murderous psycho who has to be stopped but not with violence because then we'd be just like them!

Fuck off, the show has made it clear many, many times that violence isn't the answer, but sometimes has to be the means to get the answer. The difference between it and most action shows is that it doesn't fucking revel in it and shows how it affects people on an emotional level.

I'm starting to think people are just watching this show expecting nothing but 'badass action' and are mad it touches on topics often lauded and ridiculed because "hur durr not manly enough".

>>86063500

this can be true but i see it as no absolute

those such as christ and the historical shakyamuni buddha to which this statement does not apply

i would ask who was violent in the name of shakyamuni buddha in his lifetime ?

>>86062407
This isn't civ, ya fuck

>>86061490
>I really hope, if the show ever gets to this point, that Steven doesn't try to talk the diamonds into being good guys like he is for everyone else.
He is definitely going to try, but probably won't succeed.

>>86059311
jesus christ, it was a joke
as in, it's funny he's saying that because giant robots usually fight
please, please, please stop taking the show so seriously

>steven
>a pacifist

>>86064869
No.

>>86058862
/co/ is unsurprisingly full of contrarian edgelords who will rake you over the coals for this post. Don't feel too bad, most of them have never been in a fight in their lives.

>>86064321
>I'm starting to think people are just watching this show expecting nothing but 'badass action' and are mad it touches on topics often lauded and ridiculed because "hur durr not manly enough".
Dingdingding! Welcome to /co/, where any and all action cartoons are immediately lauded as genius and any action-comedy cartoons are divisive as all hell.

Hell, I'm surprised YOU'RE surprised, this
>I'm starting to think people are just watching this show expecting nothing but 'badass action' and are mad it touches on topics often lauded and ridiculed because "hur durr not manly enough".
is EXACTLY what happened to the Adventure Time "fandom" here on /co/.

>>86065700
>/co/ is unsurprisingly full of contrarian edgelords.
>Not all of 4chan
Boy you need to browse a few more boards.

>>86060855

You drag yourselves through the dirt. Get mental help.

>>86062407
did you flunk history or something?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-v1TTUyhM
seriously, get sterilized for the good of mankind!

>>86063404
Wander Over Yonder did something similar in it's series finale
even if the villain in question survived, it still came down to "some times you can only fight violence with violence"

>>86058665
>GIant robots shouldn't fight.
Get a load of this faggot.

>>86066234
it was a joke

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>>86060600
When are we going to start rounding up this kind of people in mental institutes?
I'm a very "live and let live" kind of guy, but it's only a matter of time before this sort of bile hatred starts to seep out of their echo chambers and hurt people around them.

>>86058862
Pacifism is a invention to control the population, is not natural, is not part of human/natural activities and is not logical

>>86059891
>I wonder if this picture is a mockery of the mindset, or if that picture was earnest in its message?
Yes, and yes. It's an attempt to attack someone by accusing them of having that mindset, by a person who actually does have that mindset but is dishonest about it. That's generally where sludge like that comes from.

>>86066387
>When are we going to declare total war so we can completely and utterly destroy those evil, evil, hateful monsters?

>>86067116

>is not part of human/natural activities

I fucking hate this argument because it implies that humans should act like animals instead of being civilized.

>>86067641
Humans are an animal species. By definition, human civilization is "behaving like animals".

>>86058665
>Giant robots should fight
Ok that tears it Steven is truely a mega pussy that I would bully if I was still a kid.

>>86067907
No anon hunting and gathering is animal behavior.

>>86058665
I don't know if that is an actual phrase in the show, but it makes me want to punch him. That isn't normal. That's a phrase for blasphemers and heathens. It is disgusting to think and even worse to utter.

>>86061558
He's like, twelve.

And Kevin hit on him, his girlfriend and his daughter all in one go. Only a very specific kind of hedonist would turn the other cheek to that.

>>86058862
Look at us for one second anon we are one of the few creatures on this rock that enjoys violence for a reason you see if we didnt like violence then we couldnt hunt and eat shit thousands of years back in Africa we would feel sowwy for the hyenas we were mutilating for food eventually this went haywire and made us like killing eachother for fun too.

However violence is necessary for domination in reality, from the beginning animal life is a arms race of violence you must kill to survive as an animal or you must attack your predators to survive as an animal. As such pacifism is incompatible with animal life period it only works on autotrophic organisms like plants or animals that basically never move like sponges but motile beings like us must be violent.

What happened to all of those pacifistic tribes? They are extinct thats what happened and thats what will happen to a completely pacifistic nation, Iceland is really lucky it lived around Euros any other nation would have invaded it and conquered it because they are literal sitting ducks.

Look at weak pacifist Europe relying on violent America to protect them from violent Russia.

Violence is the only way to last in this world fool.

Even Rose Quartz resorted to violence.

I think the political turds who get buttblasted that the show promotes seeking a peaceful solution vs. validating their "righteous" anger and desire to be violent pricks toward people they don't like are watching the wrong show. They think because it has women and space lesbians it belongs to them and should tell them that hating other people is right sometimes.

>>86068796
If you think women are pacifistic then just lmao.

>>86058665
All I'm gonna say is that this show is giving off mixed messages. It tries to be actiony, but then has Steven cry in the corner whenever anything happens. Then Steven somehow blames himself when he's fully justified in fighting back.

>>86068173
Many run on sentences.

Violence is the true path.

>>86061625
>"I do believe that where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence I would advise violence."

http://www.mkgandhi.org/nonviolence/Doctrine%20of%20the%20sword.htm

You proved the point even further. If a person is pushed hard enough, even the most hardcore pacifist will dump that stance because it's a dumb stance. Advocating diplomacy is better because at least it grants the option of being violent without having to abandon your own beliefs to do so.

>>86064321
Did you just hit a random post to reply to because all the shit you're angry at has literally nothing to do with my post. I even say Steven isn't a pacifist because even he is brought to needing to fight when pushed up against the wall.

Seriously, who the fuck are you mad at right now?

>>86067369
The only good sludge is sludge metal.

>>86060855
>drag

>>86059810
Just watch WoY if you want a "true pacifist" character.

>>86058665
Yes

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>>86073784
Wow, way to completely miss the entire point of that statement, you degenerate moron.

>>86075348
Steven acts gender fluid.

>>86075596
Please explain the statement further then. How is it not simply proving that, when push comes to shove, any pacifist will become a fighter, if to defend themselves or others?

>>86066178
>in it's series finale

>>86063500
Shut it, Orwell.

>>86077144
Because you're interpreting it completely out of context. There's a huge difference between standing up to people and avoiding conflict altogether. Look at how he handled things for fucks sake; he never fought anyone during his movements, but he didn't run away from the problem. He was working to fix a problem, not to fight pointless battles.

>>86059542
>"Oh shit, I guess violence is the only answer".
Literally the climax of season 3 is Steven being confronted with his mother making that very decision, and shaking his viewpoint on the world, in regards to his role models and whether exceptions to pacifism were acceptable.

Steven is not a pacifist. Anyone who thinks so doesn't watch the show. And the bit in the OP was obviously a joke, holy shit.

>>86064415
Buddhism specifically is kind of a weird example, it gets away with absolute pacifism because Buddhism doesn't generally believe in acting to stop suffering in an external sense, it's much more about ascending beyond a point of suffering.

You shouldn't use violence against others, but someone using violence against you isn't (in theory) something worth stopping, with violence at anyrate.

>>86061787

I wouldn't be bothered by it is Steven were 9 or so, but he's 14. Yeah, he hasn't physically aged to look 14, but there's nothing stopping him developing mentally.

Steven is like a great argument against home schooling. Being around kids his own age would give him perspective on what is and isn't acceptable for someone his age. But because all his friends, minus Connie, are older than him, he isn't forced to grow up because everyone treats him like the tagalong kid you're supposed to be nice to.

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Hey, Rachel LOVED violence and looked how she turned out.

>>86059891
>>86060092
Bakcing this anon up, Tomboy is the best non big two I've read

>>86066113
In April 1918, during the latter part of World War I, the Viceroy invited Gandhi to a War Conference in Delhi. Perhaps to show his support for the Empire and help his case for India's independence, Gandhi agreed to actively recruit Indians for the war effort.

Gandhi wrote "To bring about such a state of things we should have the ability to defend ourselves, that is, the ability to bear arms and to use them...If we want to learn the use of arms with the greatest possible despatch, it is our duty to enlist ourselves in the army."

>>86058665
Steven's pacifism is one of many attitudes towards fighting seen on the show - secondary protagonists (for example, the rest of the crystal gems) easily go in fighting. Steven's actions are meant to be kind of the innocent - he doesn't want to hurt anyone, and he believes there's good in everyone, and all that jazz.

That and it's the best angle to get across the "war and fighting is really bad we should get along" theme of the show.

>>86058665
It's fucking annoying.

>Almost dies multiple times via others attacking him
>is to much of a pussy to fight back

>>86080893
>Out of context
>Ghandi stating multiple times throughout his life he will take up violence if it means defense
>Out of context

The fuck you on about. You're trying to re-word Ghandi's approval of necessary violence as somehow being pacifistic.

>>86058665
>Literally the reincarnation of a Quartz soldier
>which means he should be a badass fighter
>is a whiny, fat, useless child instead

>>86086398
>is to much of a pussy to fight back
See, now you're just making shit up. Name one time when Steven was "too much of a pussy to fight back".

>>86068146

*fourteen

>>86082668
Did you not watch the birthday episodes? They specifically laid out the fact that his physical state is a reflection of his mental state, meaning that the reason he's still nine physically is because he's still nine mentally/emotionally. If he had matured he'd look his age but because he didn't, he doesn't.

>>86086486
>>Literally the reincarnation of a Quartz soldier
You're actively ignoring the fact that large parts of the story are about how he's not the reincarnation of his mother and is in fact his own person.

>>which means he should be a badass fighter
He's already superstrong and superfast with a proven track record of taking on giant monsters, with the most recent fight being in a fucking volcano.

>>is a whiny, fat, useless child instead
Quit projecting you fucking loser and do something about, like Steven who's been eating healthier and working out more.

>>86086398
>is to much of a pussy

>>86060600
Day of the rope when?

>>86086398

He literally always fights back, and even "kills" when he has to.

>>86086698
But you have to admit that Steven has matured over the course of the series.

In the beginning he was sort of annoying and a fuckup. Now he's actually an asset to the gems. Plus, he's dealing with shit like what Rose Quartz did to Pink Diamond. That's got to age him up mentally.

I'm not sure what was going on with the "So Many Birthdays" episode and why that power hasn't shown up again. Maybe it was like a superpower leak moment for him like in "Steven Floats." He doesn't float 100% of the time he's happy, but it is still linked to his emotions.

>>86087555
Yeah, I agree that he has matured, my argument is that expecting him to overcome 5-6 years worth of mental inertia in about a year-and-a-half and suddenly start acting his age is unreasonable, same with ignoring/glossing over an established indicator of his mental state.

>>86080893
>for fucks sake

>>86062147
I thought it is for fucking.

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>>86058862
*cough*

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>>86067991
And farming isn't? I guess we should grant ants personhood then

>>86087555

>I'm not sure what was going on with the "So Many Birthdays" episode and why that power hasn't shown up again.

it was, Too short to ride is about shape shifting, are we even watching the same show?

>>86061712
And yet she's not nearly as hateful about the incident

>>86062330
He is his mom. This is just cosplay for her

>>86058862
> a white fat american kid is crying, this should be why you must stop wars in the middle east
This doesn't work. This show is teaching extremely retarded things to kids.

>>86060855
>he doesn't represent US but it's not my fault is 100% of the people who talk about us are like that!
it's notallmuslim all over again.

>>86091703

you can't possibly be this stupid

>>86058665
Pacifism doesn't work, that's why.

>>86066387
There are no mental institutions anymore. The state of psychiatric care in the US is abysmal. These people will fester uncared for like the vets and the homeless

>>86091586
because unlike Steven, Connie is an introvert

>>86060600
>i posted it again mommy :D

>>86091769
Yes they are!

>>86091703
you are obviously too retarded to comprehend whatever the show is actually saying

please have yourself delivered to the nearest gas chamber
stupidity like this should net b e allowed to live

>>86092013
>stupidity like this should net b e allowed to live
Just like pacifism

>>86091953

>this message is not good because people commit actions that everyone agree are bad that go against said message

well, yeah no shit, that's why it's a good message

>you shouldn't rape kids

>hurr durr muslim rape kids on the rial worl so the message doesn't work

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Well you've done it. You've made the worst thread ever on /co/.

Congratulations everyone.

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>>86060600
>We're taking My Little Pony back too

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I used to work at an after school place not too long ago and worked with kids a lot.
All of them, even the fujoshit girls in the corner, even the fedora weeb boys, all of them, Chad and wojack alike, all hated this show.

They all thought it was really gay.

And that's the thing, it is gay, it's really really gay. It's trying to promote being gay as a good thing to kids, but kids are the ultimate trend following plebes, and that includes fronting about your sexual normalcy to seem more mature, and thst includes thinking gays are weirdos.

Oddly enough the way all the boys interacted was legitimately fucking gay, like they got grabby with one another and when one of them was losing a fight they'd start making mock arousal noises to weird the other kid off, but not before the other kid played along for a bit and

And it was just really fucking gay, man.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of them watch the show in secret shame.

>>86058665
>But... Robots can't fight robots! That's forbidden war!

>>86066178
Are we just gonna ignore Avatar? It's the most important show as far as this subject is concerned.

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>le "pacifism is bad" nothing personell meme thread

Read a book

>>86092466
Just curious but do you live in Spain, Italy or Russia?

>>86092622
This happened in new jersey

>>86066113
>>86086273
rekt

>>86092116
you must join the army and kill at least 50 men before being even allowed to say that

>>86092142
which obviously means we should all go out and rape as many children as we can

>>86092646
Oh that's where I'm from. Shit son

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>>86092604
>"Many intellectuals of the Left were flabbily pacifist up to 1935, shrieked for war against Germany in the years 1935-9, and then promptly cooled off when the war started. It is broadly though not precisely true that the people who were most 'anti-Fascist' during the Spanish Civil War are most defeatist now. And underlying this is the really important fact about so many of the English intelligentsia–their severance from the common culture of the country.”
—The Lion and the Unicorn: Socialism and the English Genius (1941)

>"Nourished for hundreds of years on a literature in which Right invariably triumphs in the last chapter, we believe half-instinctively that evil always defeats itself in the long run. Pacifism, for instance, is founded largely on this belief. Don't resist evil, and it will somehow destroy itself. But why should it? What evidence is there that it does? And what instance is there of a modern industrialized state collapsing unless conquered from the outside by military force?"
—Looking Back on the Spanish War (1942)

>"But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists whose real though unadmitted motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration of totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defence of western countries. The Russians, unlike the British, are not blamed for defending themselves by warlike means, and indeed all pacifist propaganda of this type avoids mention of Russia or China."
—Notes on Nationalism (1945)

>>86092452
remember, if you allow them to take a swingle thing, they will take everything away from you

>>86092466
now tell us the one about Little Red Riding Hood

>>86092584
and the execution was far worse than either of these shows
your point?

>>86092604
implying any of these fags can read

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>>86092646
Duh

>>86061558
Kevin is a character that personifies guys that triggered the writers irl

>>86093080
To be fair, people who relate to Kevin are terrible.

>>86092872
>avatar worse than WOY and Steven Universe

Don't be contrarian just for the sake of it anon.

>>86058862
because those end up fucking themselves over in an spectacular way at the end
steven pacifism is never called out, its always the right thing wich sucks as storytelling nand sucks even more as a moral to kids

>>86093135
Kevin is just a obnoxious rich guy. There are people way more terrible him like Sadie and Lars for example.

>>86060600
oh boy
is steven trans culture?
am i appropiating it by getting mad at how shitty ruby and sapphire are?

>>86093154
He didn't say the show was worse, just that the way it handled the pacifist message was worse. And it was. Avatar had a notably messy finale.

>>86058862
I think Wander is the only true pacifist and even he couldn't befriend everyone.

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As much as I'd like to kill people, I finally realized that they were already in Hell.

>>86093183
What about Bubbled and Bismuth?

To me SU's actual moral regarding violence is that even if it's sometimes necessary you should still try hard to avoid it because life is a valuable thing.

>>86093340
>life is a valuable thing.
Why? Why is the life of one who seeks to end several more valuable? Why is any life valuable to begin with?

>>86061844
Einstein wanted the bomb to be used on Germany for ending the war, not in Japan for a piss contest between Truman and Stalin

>>86093282
I love Wander. I love his attitude, and I love his mindset of everyone can be befriend and no one is truly evil, only misguided. I really enjoy that about him. But let's be honest, his pacifism has cost dearly to other people, specially when dealing with Dominator. And the rest of characters, even Sylvia, call him out on this, and they are right to do so. So, in my opinion, Wander is the perfect epitome of pacifism in cartoons; he can do great good for everyone, but his views can also fuck everyone up in the worst moment.

>>86092416
You must be new if you thin this is the "worst thread ever"

>>86058862
>Thank you for your pacifism. You save me a ton of stress and work
>t. Narco/Terrorist/Criminal/Warmonger

>>86058834
With all the anime plagiarism in the show it's hard to keep track

>>86093500
Because this is a story from Steven's perspective, and Steven's main power is the life force manipulation. To begin with.

>>86083745
>Tomboy is the best non big two I've read
Christ you capeshitfags disgust me.

>>86061558
He never even touched them, he just wanted to dance and was arrogant but Stevonnie took it like a psycho because they were an emotional mess freaking out over being stared at by the ravers, and the fans of the show hated him for basically nothing other than being full of himself so the next episode he was portrayed just short of a rapist.
You can't make this shit up, Steven was completely out of characters in how much he hated Kevyn.
Lars has been more hurtful, insulting and arrogant than Kevyn but the writers and tumblr are too ideologically biased to be consistent and objective about the character.

Not trying to be a dick or anything but I've never met anyone in real life who liked this show, I have 3 younger siblings and none of them(or their friends) like it either. Who exactly is the main audience of this show? I keep hearing it does well but I just don't know how

>>86094711
>Not spacing before the parenthesis

>>86094711
there are people on this site that like it
and on allot of other places
saw a ton of cosplayers on conventions

I have a murderous hatred of SJWs, but I still like this show because I'm not a paranoid retard

>>86058975
What is this image inspired from?

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>>86060600
>tfw work in a gay bar
>tfw most of my friends do shows in drag
>tfw they make hella money
>mfw a tumblrina got triggered and tried to tell a drag king to check "his" privilege
>mfw said tumblrina became a trigglypuff and got kicked out while screaming "I AM NOT DRUNK"

>>86097701
That bouncer deserves a freaking medal

>>86069046
It's not mixed messages if you have a fucking conscience and aren't some blinkered zealot. Mentally healthy people generally feel bad when they hurt others, even if they are justified in doing so.

>>86058665
he's not a pacifist, he's sheltered. dangerously so.

>>86097774
>Mentally healthy people
This is 4chan, you won't find people like that in these places

>>86097774
Actually people have mechanisms specifically developed to turn off the empathy response towards perceived enemies. The entire history of mankind would've played out very differently if such a reflex didn't exist

>>86097824
and he faces the consequences
HARD

>>86093340
how was bismuth calling out steven?
bismuth was portrayed as wrong the full time
the only one who came close to questioning steven was jasper and its still shown as being motivated 90%by being hurt

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I'm glad the character Bismuth was introduced to really hit Rose's pacifistic beliefs and principles hard. I love how the character who represented war, killing and weaponry was just as kind and loving as Garnet and Pearl, it's just she had a different viewpoint.
And ultimately, she was punished for it.

This show has the guts to do a lot of shit, like tackling what's inherently ''good'', or ''bad'' when people's lives are at stake, while still being a cute and funny Cartoon Network show, just like any other. Once the anti-sjw contrarian faggots get over this show and it's fanbase, we're going to be looking back on Steven Universe and respecting it a lot more for what it did. Hopefully, anyway.

>>86097865
too many soldiers with PSTD feeling guilt over their actions

>>86092761
Your stories are shit, Orwell!

>>86097261
I didn't even notice that
>>86097320
I meant that no "normies" like it. I haven't met a single "normie" who liked it

>>86097956
If it's not the majority of them, then the empathy response isn't working in most veterans

>>86068018
It's a joke

>>86097865
Source?

>>86098175
Normies are just myths.

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>>86093614
>>86061844
>>86059542
Tesla was right, Einstien was a one trick pony who only brought death and destruction.

>>86099255
I was referring to the popular crowd but I think you got my point

>>86092416
>undertale

fuck off please

>>86100173
You first.

>>86099353
>Einstien

>>86097915
>and it's fanbase

>>86097912
>and its still shown

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>this entire thread

>>86064415
>those such as christ and the historical shakyamuni buddha to which this statement does not apply
Jesus told his friends to take arms in order to defend themselves, and also pitched a violent fit in a temple that one time.

Far from pacifistic.

>>86093698
>So, in my opinion, Wander is the perfect epitome of pacifism in cartoons; he can do great good for everyone, but his views can also fuck everyone up in the worst moment.

That's probably the best way to go about it.
Trigun had a similar concept with Vash's outright obsession with not letting anyone die ever constantly coming back to bite him in the ass.

>>86091735
those who talk don't know, those who know don't talk.

most of the tumblr "trans community" are self diagnosed or just pretending to feel special.

>>86064321
>I'm starting to think people are just watching this show expecting nothing but 'badass action' and are mad it touches on topics often lauded and ridiculed because "hur durr not manly enough".
The show continues to shy away from having a steady, central conflict that actually pays off. Every time an antagonist is introduced, they are swiftly defanged and turned into either feelsy (Lapis, Jasper) or quirky (Peridot, the rubies) or ignored altogether (Yellow Diamond). Like the Cluster, which was defeated by the magical power of talking and feewings.

It's not about wanting violence and fights for their own sake. It's about not wanting to be blue-balled anymore by the premise of a millennia-long interplanetary war being sidelined time and again by saccharine sentimental cop-outs and filler about the townies.

>>86065769
>Welcome to /co/, where any and all action cartoons are immediately lauded as genius and any action-comedy cartoons are divisive as all hell.
Hardly true. /co/ in general dismisses action and story arcs as pretentiously edgy and much prefers episodic, "comfy" SoL stories with cute waifus in them. If the gems were male, /co/ would've paid no attention to SU.

>"Their bad! They hurt my friends, they hurt my face, and they locked you up here"
>we cant fight them steven
>"thats why we HAVE to fight them"

I want season 1 steven back, he was an actual kid who dealt with things above his power but always knew what to do in the situation and knew every situation didn't get solved via pacifism and sometimes you HAD to fight to get your way.

Season 2 steven is a total pussy, he cries over robots, cries over peridot getting hurt, cries over fucking everything that gets hurt even if they are bad guys.

It's one thing to want to hear a bad character out, its another thing to let that character live in your fucking bathroom because "i dont wanna hurt her".

I get steven wants to help and thats fine, whats not fine is him fucking crying over his mom killing someone. Some people do bad things and steven learned that in season 1 but unlearned it for no fucking reason because the writers want to make him more feminine.

Theres a difference between pacifism and cowardice and steven is a fucking coward and it pisses me off because season 1 was perfectly fine and he felt like a real kid. Who had moments where he wanted to protect people who he felt was in danger. Now hes a bitch who cries over a lady bug dying.

>>86107979
>Their bad!

>>86108045
Is this some kind of bot? Multiple threads now, I've seen someone calling out every single typo that's made.

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Steven isn't a pacifist.
He just knows that not every conflict needs to be resolved through violence.

>>86106698
really, Batman is the same

>>86107979
It did not stop him from beating the crap out of Jasper

also, not sparing Peridot would result in the world being destroyed, so there was that

>>86108247
you think /co/ is smart enough to comprehend that?

>>86110740
He didn't, the abomination did

>>86104973
>>86103994
>>86102975
Hey, since when did /lit/ start browsing here

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>>86110740
>It did not stop him from beating the crap out of Jasper
Twice. This "Steven is a pacifist" meme needs to stop. He's no pacifist, and he's no coward, he just is very in tune with the people around him, and has limits on how far he's willing to go. He never advocated shattering anyone in Season 1, and he hasn't advocated rolling over and letting bad people do bad things in season 2 and beyond, so any change is nowhere near as pronounced as people are making it out to be.

I asked >>86086507
yesterday when was one time he refused to fight back, and no one was able to answer then. They're talking out of their asses.

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>>86110760
/co/ should try and not talk about things like this.

>>86110854
>Wallpaper board confirmed for 3rd smartest
I must know their secrets

>>86110854
something seems very screwy that /tg/ is on the lower end of things, also I can't buy /lit/ being the smartest board, that place is full of smug jackasses

>>86110781
which was part him
remember, a fusion can't do anything one of the segments does not agree with

>>86111087
Except for sugilite who does whatever the fuck she pleases apparently

>>86111126
They did point out that Sugilite is insane

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When will Steven finally break and have his SSJ2 moment?

>>86111149
>implying the abomination isn't just as defective
There's also malachite. Fusions are just a grab bag of traits not necessarily beholden to it's creators

>>86069046
Steven wants to be a pacifist, but he's also a Gem and gem culture is violent, moreso than humans. He's torn between his identity as a human and a gem, between his mother's ideals and her actions. The contradictions are pivotal to Steven's character arc.

>>86111302
When yellow diamond shatters peridot

>>86086486
It's amazing how overpowering Greg's failure Genes must've been to create Steven.

>>86111302
Never.....

>>86058665
>steven universe cancer can't keep it to one thread
Also oh man is that a quote from the show? There's enough reasons to call this show "shit" but this is definitely one of them. "Giant robots shouldn't fight". Fucking hell, that's the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. Fuck this show and fuck this cancerous fanbase supporting this pandering garbage. Goddamn.

>>86111377
>"Giant robots shouldn't fight". Fucking hell, that's the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.
If you're too thick to grasp this and this isn't bait, I'll just tell you: It's a joke.

>>86092761
Isn't this the guy that wrote his shitty mary sue villain character in his fascist propaganda story?
>A-and like, eventually the government will get so powerful and spooky it'll throw RATS in your face and stuff, and uh, that will like, brainwash you into not wanting to jack off or ever being able to orgasm something
Funny how he mentions no self-funding state ever sabotages himself but in 1984 the divisions within the totalitarian government never experiences any resistance, contradiction or fractions within itself. It's apparently one big cartoon supervillain in which there's no real leader or centralized power but somehow all the bad guys maintain power together without ever any disagreement or real cohesion.

>>86111377
That entire episode was pretty dumb in itself. Apparently Peridot and Pearl have the ability to make giant fighting robots from barn scraps in like 30 seconds or some shit? It was like a road runner episode or some loony tunes shit, best if it's considered noncanon like Say Uncle.

>>86111377
So you haven't actually watched it?

>>86111494
Say uncle is literally one of the best episodes of steven universe. kys m8

>>86111472
The only reason the Party cannot be defeated is BECAUSE they have no leader or figurehead. There's not a hitler or Kim Jong Un that you can assassinate or real top-down structure that you can collapse.

It's bureaucracy at it's cruelest taking root.

>>86068173
Violence is a defect and a sign we're still flawed as a species. Also the reason we're dooming our own survival. We became really good at hunting prey and fighting off predators. So good in fact that we're now the ultimate predators and are finally getting on sight the day when we're going to run out of prey.

Violence may be an inescapable option in some situations but, like anything else, is terribly bad in excess. And we are way past our share.

>>86111472
Party members backstabber each other all the time, part of the reason it was so resilient was any attempt to coup would just result in your co-conspirators selling you out

>>86111608
Lay down in a pig pen

>>86097865
It's a temporary solution. In most cases your deeds of extreme violence come back to haunt you or at least affect your psyche permanently. People have different reactions from getting consumed by guilt and fear to becoming cold and disconnected from people in general and have trouble functioning in non violent enviroments.

There's heavy shit people can't come back from. That "switch" is a placebo.

>>86099353
>a fucking jew

>>86108247
Isnt that the fucking definition of pacifist?
Steven is naive, his biggest revelation yet is you can't trust everyone and maybe you can't help everyone (even tho if he learned that at all is up for debate) I know at some point Steven will have to question having to hurt someone as the moral and right thing to do, because sometimes it is and it isn't a last resort that should be avoided at any cost like the show tells you, sometimes violence should be used immediately.
Thing is we are deep enough into the show for this shit to start pissing me off, steven doesn't change, Steven doesn't make mistakes that can't be solved in a single episode, Steven is too fucking plain and boring to be a main character at all, the show would be better off with less steven

Steven isn't a pacifist. Anyone that thought this is dumb.

Of course he doesn't want to kill anyone or promote violence, nor does he agree with weapons of murder or fantasize about brutality like Bismuth. But he's clearly not against fighting and defending as a whole, seeing how he trains routinely.

If anything he's a peace-leaning pragmatist.

>>86111627
>it was so resilient was any attempt to coup would just result in your co-conspirators selling you out
That's not my understanding of the word 'resilient', my point was you cannot paint the government as a super-competent all powerful intelligista Party when they're shown to be unstable. That whole "reward system for selling your co-worker out" bullshit might work for Proles but the paranoia and despotism of factions ragging each other and scheming would've just caused the party to self-destruct, which is the very thing Orwell stated in the quotes
>>86092761
wouldn't happen.

>>86108247
The show slows down constantly to become either pearl torture porn or I wonder what pizza guy has been doing wich I hate and it becomes pearl torture because for some reason pearl is the only one allowed to fuck up lately, which is wierd since its completely the opposite from season one, we see garnet fuck up and its watching two lesbians having a fight and honestly the worst episode in the show and amethyst fucking up isn't an episode it's a common gag.
I saw a fan picture of the show but Steven is with lapis, petridot and Jasper instead and that would make the show so much better, if Steven is supposed to be Pacific and the voice of calm and reason allow everyone else to be more flawed and over the top to compensate

>>86107979
S1 Steven acted like that because he was naive and childish. Kids talk big and passionately about beating baddies and saving the world because they don't know shit about causing real harm. The events of The Return and Jailbreak hit Steven hard. The boy was willing to shun anyone off his life aside of the gems by mere fear of getting them involved in the heavy stuff he experienced.

He got a lot more humble and focused on protecting rather than fighting. And sort of had the moral high ground on trying to not harm his foes but his hand was forced in S3 bursting that bubble and making him face the grim reality that he'll have to hurt others not just for justice but sometimes for something as simple as saving his own neck. He sees that as a failure and will always try to find a better solution. The unfolding dark secrets in Rose's backstory are a warning for Steven that the path he choose is a very difficult one.

>>86111696
Steven does grow. Season 1 steven is clearly different than the Steven we're at. The Season from the beginning of the show would never had what it takes to stab Bismuth like he did and stop her violent rampage, he would've just ran or cried as he waited for her to shatter him.

>>86058665
Steven isn't a pacifist, he just believes violence is the very last resort. He trains to fight, idolizes the Crystal Gems' combat prowess, and encourages Connie to become a warrior.

He's got too much empathy for his own good, but his optimism is his biggest trait and the show's theme.

>>86061558
Kevin was the show's date-rape metaphor and he pressured Steven and Connie, conflating their discomfort and his protectiveness of Connie. Jasper's a broken soul he thinks he can heal, and well, a woman.

>>86064321
>I'm starting to think people are just watching this show expecting nothing but 'badass action' and are mad it touches on topics often lauded and ridiculed because "hur durr not manly enough".
No, it's just that some people decided they hate the show and now they rationalize why they dislike it. That or they're complete idiots who can't understand subtext.

>>86111759
1984 was written before the end of the Cold War and way before all the communist regimes fell. Orwell didn't have the luxury of experiences in dictators failing like Saddam or the USSR collapsing to shape his views at the time sempi.

>>86111783
I honestly wish this show would just stop using goddamn metaphors for adult issues, it's really bad at it. It's one of the things that Adventure Time tried to do and utterly failed at, I don't want to see SU go down that path.

>>86058665
BUT GIANT ROBOTS!

>>86111780
I never used the word grow, I said change. Steven doesn't change.
He becomes stronger, he starts training (than god) and is overall more responsible but Steven views are never challenged, Steven doesn't struggle beyond I have to be as good as mom. I want Steven to question himself and his actions once. I want Steven to experience loss and I want Steven to fuck up in a way that can't be fixed and do something he can't back down of and will have to learn to deal it and will have to accept that it was his fault.
Steven power is a bubble, Steven lives within a bubble, even while fighting monsters nobody ever bothers to train Steven or put him too close to danger, even while being attacked by an alien force nobody bothers to talk with Steven about what happened. Steven ignorance protects him and that's plain wrong, in a war you do things you aren't proud of because you have to, it's a cartoon about lesbian rocks but it's still a variation of a hero archetype but a hero struggles and a hero changes and this isn't up for debate, if the hero doesn't do this then his journey was pointless

>>86111804
I disagree, but okay

>>86111780
Every superhero comics or cartoons needs one point in which the hero throes his suit away and doesn't want to be a hero anymore usually after having to do something bad or realizing they where wrong.
This is a cliche but it's necessary, we need to see them fail, we need to see them make mistakes, if the hero just goes around saving the day each day power ranger style it becomes boringthere is way too much of that, Jasper fucks up so much its actually funny, pearl too you can't have a character be perfect and the other one be absolute shit they need balance in themselves and balance off each other

>>86111780
I can totally see this show ending in Steven was totally right and the diamonds totally wrong and that would be really shitty, there are two sides to every issue, rose cracked hundreds of gems, everyone did, where do you think the cluster comes from, it was war, rose cracked gems that didn't know what they where fighting for or why and if she didn't everyone she cared about would have been cracked instead, rose fought and possibly died for your right to freedom and Steven should understand that sometimes there is no choice

>>86063370
are they? last i checked they were fully supportive of their fans and the message being given

>>86060600
I thought there weren't any MEN in that fanbase, only faggots and nu-cucks

>>86111857
Bismuth, Jasper and the dark Rose reveals are paving the way towards that. Mindful Education was solud proof of that.

Also you can't really expect something heavier from a kids show like this. SU is already on dangerous waters about what it can pull off so this is probably as heavy as it would get.

Again, SU touch many interesting topics and lore but at the end of the day is a cartoon made for children. If you aren't satisfied by it you can always go and seek something more deeper and graphic elsewhere.

>>86111857
I think you also have to remember, that it's a kids television. It's a cartoon meant to entertain, not necessarily to showcase literary merit or deep seated character arcs, especially in a series was World based rather than character based as SU.

This isn't me just saying "Oh it's for kids!" but that sort of change is a staple in literature and something we've sort of been told to expect, but I don't think it exists as fluidly as people want it to. No one watches DBZ demanding Goku to be good, or even in more 'adult' western shows like Bojack or Southpark the development and change is frigid at best.

That being said, Steven, for the plot we've had so far is a perfectly believable character as he is and his personality is believable for what we know about him. He grew up on Beach City, a serene lackadaisical down with nice people and a fuzzy environment. The Gems always take care of the corrupted Gems and it's not like he's seen gruesome murders or horrific atrocities yet, so there's no reason for him to change. No catalyst, no real pressure yet, no Gem ships reigning down to holocaust his town or seeing one of his friends shattered. I'm not sure whether it was Rose's intention for Steven to really grow up as a human, or a Gem (Read as: A child soldier), but given her ideals the answer was likely to make of himself whatever he chose and not limit his own potential.

Like yeah
> want Steven to experience loss and I want Steven to fuck up in a way that can't be fixed and do something he can't back down of and will have to learn to deal it and will have to accept that it was his fault.
I wanna see that too, but this honestly isn't the show for that and really expecting that is to want the show to be something else that's it's not.
It's comfy Slice of Life at it's heart, with all the lore and plot happening as sort of a buffer between Steven's peaceful life with his boring Beach town.

>>86111950
>rose cracked a gem
Fixed. Its a plot point Rose only ever poofed her foes until Pink Diamond which is treated as a dark shameful incident no one wanted to talk about.

>>86111857
Also I'm not saying childrens cartoons cannot be deep or deal with this stuff. But SU's genre is antithetical to that.
It's not Avatar, and it's not Korra.
We're not going to get a whole season with Steven struggling over his morality and role over being the savior of Gem-kind.
We'll surely touch upon it and get cute songs, but don't expect Hamlet is all I'm saying.

>>86111917
Let's hope we get that moment someday. The best possible story choice in my own preference would be Steven breaking his War Cherry, removing his ignorance and shouldering him with responsibilities and choices.
And then him shrugging them all off and walking away because "Not muh war."
There'd be a sublime satisfaction in the Gems hypocritically expecting Steven to become their leader or soldier and than just refusing to do that.

>>86111950
What would be the shittiest possible ending for you?
For me it would be if SU Talk-No-Jutsu'd the Diamonds and befriended them, having them just hug out and agree with his point of view after so much crying. Everyone becomes friends, the end!
How dumb would that be..but I wouldn't put it past the crew to be that blindsided.

>>86111981
They care about the fans, they just don't much tolerance for the ones causing problems for other fans, staff and peoples livelihoods.

>>86112128
Full disclosure if Steven world views go invented the whole series I'm jumping of the wagon
Struggled doesn't have to be gritty and in your face, it can be subtle but you have to show it and it has to be there

>>86112128
I can deal with a lot but I can't deal with Steven going through the whole show to basically learn nothing and end up being absolutely right from episode one to the last.
If the show doesn't show him as being as wrong as the diamonds what's the point? I'm ok with the diamonds being irredimable wrong but I'm not ok with Steven being absolutely right, if you want Steven to win then you are going to have to make Steven change because right now he is not right and if he wins like this ignorance would have triumphed over ignorance, I'm tired about everyone learning form Steven how about Steven learns from someone else for a chance?

>>86112155
>Full disclosure
That and Mindful Educations are episodes where we can explore Steven's views and beliefs getting challenged on different levels. First time he realized his mission and hero stuff aren't a game. The second time he's dealing with the fact he can't sweet talk his way out of everything and sometime will need to cause harm in order to survive not matter how much he doesn't want to.

>>86112092
The war meant everyone shattered someone the cluster was make from corpses, corpses the crystal gems made

>>86112079
Believable isn't e much, depression is believable, pathology and abuse are believable, poverty is believable but by themselves they don't make a good story
Child prodigy saves the world more news at 11 I don't care for Steven as long as they don't show me Steven is flawed

don't you people have a containment thread?

christ, SU fans are worse than the height of homosuck

>>86112214
That's not Steven views getting challenged, that's Steven having to accept that he couldn't save them.
I guess Steven will eventually have to deal with the fact that he can't just be who he think rose was to be good and will have to figure out what being good means.
Just dealing with a character so stupid that he hasn't yet formed his own idea of what good means is so frustrating, Steven is such a frustrating character, he never questions, he never surprises me in any way, he is a goodie two shoes like Superman, people don't like Superman they like Batman
I desperately want Steven to get a little bit more of emotional depth than he has and I don't mean being too deep or serious, I mean not being fucking SpongeBob lost in an action cartoon

>>86112217
The Cluster was mostly made from Crystal Gem shards. They shattered a lot less than Homeworld. Again it was a plot point that Rose banned Bismuth from mass producing an insta-shatter weapon. Pearl and Rose only poofed soldiers during their assault in The Answer and again the fact Rose had to shatter anothe gem was treated as a shocking reveal.

Poofing is a convenient writing tool to have chatacters harming each other fiercely without killing each other. It's like Jasper VS. Amethyst. Jasper had a shot at shattering/killing her but only after winning and poofing her first.

>>86112204
>I'm tired about everyone learning form Steven how about Steven learns from someone else for a chance?
He's already doing that. Without Garnet, Amethyst and Connie he would still be lost in guilt and self-pity. And he hasn't even fully recovered yet.

>>86112214
How about he becomes a little bit self aware? We have run with the innocent child skit too long Steven has seen too much to be that innocent

>>86112262
Even if the crystal gems shattered less, they still shattered, pearl shattered, garnet shattered, rose shattered and if more crystal gems got shattered than shattered themselves then rose was a horrible leader

>>86112262
Yeah maybe he learned to let go but I'm not talking about that.
How about he learns homeworld isn't just bad still one sided villains that just need perspective from petridot or how about he learns some hard truths from lapis, I'm sure lapis has a thing or two to say if Jasper was right
Jasper could have taught Steven so much, In hindsight I wish we got an episode where Steven and Jasper have to cooperate alone to survive, they had completely opposite views

>>86112260
>That's not Steven views getting challenged, that's Steven having to accept that he couldn't save them.
He viewed gem stuff as a super cool adventure until Jasper showed him otherwise. He thought anyone could listen to reason with enough patience but had to poof to survive. He's not the same.

>I guess Steven will eventually have to deal with the fact that he can't just be who he think rose was to be good and will have to figure out what being good means.
Already touched upon in Bismuth and is a storyline that will surely be followed.

>people don't like Superman
The legion of fans pissed at Zack Snyder disrespecting Superman's true essence say otherwise. I don't want "Man of Steel" Steven.

>I desperately want Steven to get a little bit more of emotional depth than he has and I don't mean being too deep or serious, I mean not being fucking SpongeBob lost in an action cartoon.
The Uncle Grandpa episode should be a good indicative for what to expect from this show. As i said. You want SU to be something its not.

>>86112262
You know what's a great lesson from Jasper?
Pearl tough to protect rose the same way Jasper fought to protect pink diamondif things went the other way around pearl would have gotten as blod thirsty and crazy for vengeance as Jasper is, how about Jasper teaches Steven they aren't that different

>>86112287
>Even if the crystal gems shattered less, they still shattered, pearl shattered, garnet shattered, rose shattered
Poofing was a thing. Rose stopped the Breaking Point because it gets past poofing and directly shatter gems which is a big no no for the Rebellion.

>if more crystal gems got shattered than shattered themselves then rose was a horrible leader
Bismuth, pls.

>>86112287
>if more crystal gems got shattered than shattered themselves then rose was a horrible leader
Not necessarily. Rose seems to have won the war for Earth by being far too much trouble to be worth dealing with. If she'd focused more on shattering her enemies, she may have increased homeworld's desire to stay and get revenge.

>>86112336
No, I want Steven to be more than a Mary Sue, if you like someone who is always right then you have shit for brains
I never proposed Steven goes man of steel in any of the 20 post I already made, I just want Steven to get some fucking perspective he doesn't have, there are many ways to do this, I'm a big fan of the harsh awakening but you don't have to do that.
If expecting Steven universe to not be so shallow to show problems like war in such a one sided way without addressing nuance or bringing the idea that the other side may have been fighting for what they thought was right too then Steven universe is a bad show
I hate arguing with fanboys who want to quickly brush off any criticism or question by naming episode titles, maybe making Steven realise cool adventures aren't as cool isn't the extent of the expectations I had for this show

>>86112268
Steven lost his inmocence way back in Jailbreak. But that doesn't mean he has to become an edgelord.

Reminds when Ronaldo basically told him that he has to brood. I like SU's message that "yeah, life can suck at times but that doesn't mean you must be unhappy all the time or cannot have fun again".

>>86112358
A big earth core filled with broken gem shards was also a thing

>>86112204
Well what choice can you really have him make? The surest way to showcase Steven's change is in determination of his own values and decisions, in lieu of his mother and the diamonds ideology.

If he has to shatter them like his mom did, he's just a hypocrite who destroyed his opponent with violence and Bismuth was right.
If he tries to idealize something he thought his Mother believes in and goes 'full pacifist', there's no way to stop the Diamonds fully. What's he going to do, bubble them? Keep them caged up forever in little bubbles like Rose did to Bismuth? It's practically the same standard as the first, except I don't doubt a lot of tumblr and far-left type viewers would find anything wrong with "Just bubble away everything you disagree with."

We need an episode, a deciding choice episode where Steven considers everything he's been to up to this point and finds some kind of 3rd way between the Diamonds and Rose's ideology, that's the only way the whole "Serve your own potential become your own individual" motif of the show can work. The narrative of the cartoon is building up and pitting Steven against these option, but I'm worried more whether it'll have him make that choice at all or like you said, basically learn nothing and just end befriending/befriending the diamonds. I don't expect it right away, but I really hope they don't forget this and just have him have happy Beach City adventures forever until the show is spontaneously canceled by season 6 or 9, ect.

>>86112421
So the character who cries about not everyone getting alone, like actually cries about it lost his innocence?
I don't see it

>>86111608
If anything we need nore violence. Our population keeps growing without end and we end up making everything else on the planet suffer just by existing. Violence is a regulator and we need much more of it

>>86112433
Everyone can get along isn't a value its a stupid idea someone has when he is talking about something he knows nothing about and steven spend 90% of the show knowing nothing about gems

>>86112234
I meant that Steven's character is believable.
Not his role or any anticipation about him saving the world yet. I think it makes for a better story, I'd rather characters with consistent motives that I disagree with than inconsistent characterization I also cannot agree with because it makes no sense.

>>86111726
He's never trained with a sword. His skills are strictly defensive. He lets his girlfriend do all the attacking

>>86112419
>Steven universe is a bad show
Maybe? I don't know. I love the show but if you dislike it do nuch you can always look out for better stuff.

>maybe making Steven realise cool adventures aren't as cool isn't the extent of the expectations I had for this show
Then you probably set the bar too high for a comfy colorful show with some intetesting lore bits. If its not your cup of tea then stop watching. I doubt you'll get the super serious soul-consuming existential crisis you're waiting for.

>>86112433
How about you tell when the actually enjoyable part of the show start and i can skip 4 seasons of Steven never asking a single question even tho he absolutely should like why are we hunting monsters? Or is yellow diamond the only diamond alive? How about a simple what can you tell me and what should I know about gem world and the war?

>>86112336
In my own humble faggoy opinion, these would be my ratings for the conclusion of Steven's arc

3rd way>>>Shattering the diamonds>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sparing/Bubbling them>>>>Befriending them

It goes
>Full Realization tier Steven
>"Man of Steel-tier" Steven
>NO decision/conclusion Steven
>Pacifist Route Steven
>Tumblr Route Steven (Dropping this show like an atom bomb tier)

The top 3 I could begrudgingly accept, with the Man of Steel option an exasperated sigh and predictable disappointment. the bottom 2 are unforgivable.

>>86112450
How is Steven believable when he finds out he is part of a race of aliens and doesn't asks single question about it?
Is Steven brain damaged? It would be completely believable if he was

>>86111780
>stab Bismuth like he did
She just sort of ran into his sword and he freaked out

>>86112445
I agree.
But it's not something I trust the SU-crew enough not to go with.

>>86112470
Would you mind rephrasing that? You sound drunk anon.
As for the Gem War and Gem world, we really don't know anything. It's season 4 and we're still pretty much as shrouded in ignorance as Steven.
The show does that annoying POV thing where we only gradually learn about things along with our main character does so we identify better with the twists and reveals.

>>86112463
No I expected cool monster catching and finding out the mistery source of the monsters and some plot around that.
Then a spaceship came down from the sky seriously it has been so fucking lackluster lately, I swear it gets away with it by dumping the episode bulk in a konth

>>86112483
Because he's Steven.
Lot's of people don't ask questions everyday. Did you call your parents or priest and feel desperate to know all the deep-probing existential questions about your origin? Lot's of people don't.

Steven just sorta knows he'll learn about stuff when he does and accepts that. Of course it's kinda dumb when it's putting his life and friends lives in danger with that ignorance, but that's Steven's character. Even if it's dumb, it's not unbelievable because people live like that each and every single day.

>>86112079
SU does not entertain. It's jokes are notoriously bad and it's plot movee glacially. The primary draw is it's tackling of emotional issues. If it can't do it well then it can do nothing

>>86112470
Mindful Education outright adressed Steven don't want to face complicated feelings or feel bad about something amd it blew up in his face. He just wants everyone to be happy, eat donuts and play his ukulele but he's currently getting slapoed in the face that he'll may had to earn that peace the hard way.

>>86112495
There is a pothole in the show and its nobody can ever tell Steven about anything because if they do then all the mistery goes away
There wasn't any reason for nobody telling Steven they come from outer space the first episode of the show, they keep Steven not asking questions and the gems not giving them as a tool. They make the characters act stupid as a way to carry the plot. There is no reason for the secrets.
So yeah the spell is broken, when Steven finds out the white diamond was white diamond or the bugs where who knows what I'm going to get angry because they should have told Steven what they where doing all alongi have to deal with this for 4 more seasons tell me when it's the final episode so I don't have to stand this shit

>>86112514
Eh, I sorta see your point but too many cooks you know? If they don't pad it out a little and try to give into pure emotional theatrics and melodrama the tone of the show will be broken and all of those emotional issues will become kinda for naught. Hammy, and unfeasible forced.

We just sort of need the not-entertainment and glacial pace the make the show work for what it does best.

>>86112512
How about Steven knowing gems can get hurt if the gem cracks or knowing they can get poofed like pearl did?
Shouldn't steven know this basic shit in order to keep himself safe? It's pretty much on the level of don't touch fire or don't stick the fort down the electric socket

>>86112514
>SU does not entertain. It's jokes are notoriously bad and it's plot movee glacially.
A big part of the fandom enjoy the comfy tone and silly but colorful events in townie episodes.

>>86112531
But he does know they're aliens and come from outer space, doesn't he? He has a lot of things told to him and things figured out. Just not everything.

In Amethyst's kinderarden episode Pearl makes it clear they purposefully don't tell Steven a lot of things because they don't think he's ready. I see what you mean, I'm not a fan of really shitty twists either, so they better not suddenly reveal a huge fact that makes everything beforehand in the show meaningless.

>>86112519
That's because nobody ever taught him anything. Steven is a moron who thinks real world issues can be solved like the fruit baby cartoon he watches says.
I dont like Steven, I don't like that he gets treated like he has some sorth of wisdom, he is a 14 year old teenager with maturity problems due to neglect

>>86112564
He finds out like a shocking revelation, it's like telling a kid in his 26 birthday surprise we are actually a family of Jewish refugees that scaped Germany in world war two. Your real mother died fighting to get some bread to feed you, we had to kill innocent civilians to steal from them enough so we could escape from there

>>86112564
How about Steven don't hit your gem or you will die or Steven if I ever turn into a stone while fighting don't worry, I'm ok I will come back fine after a while

>>86112565
I don't know if wisdom is the apropiate word but he has a believable aspect which is his empathy. He's incredibly emphatic, even when he failed to reach his foes he always managed to get a solid understanding of their feelings. He truly felt Jasper and Bismuth but his inexperience also means he was unable to answer to those feelings properly at the time. Or not the the extent he would wished.

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It would be really interesting if an episode comes along where Steven is standing there and realizes that Yellow Diamond is just like him, trying to make history and who's to judge the right from the wrong? When his guard is down they'll both agree that violence brings violence but in the end it has to be this way.

>>86112531
>There wasn't any reason for nobody telling Steven they come from outer space the first episode of the show
It was as early as Cheeseburger Backpack that Pearl referred to the Lunar Sea Spire as an outpost for "Gems on Earth" It's not like they were making it a big secret that they were from space. Most of everything they're guarded about is because it's uncomfortable to have to talk about, or inappropriate to reveal to a young child, like the kindergartens, or the gems originally being an invading force, or the fact that his mother assassinated someone.

>>86112582
Kids show, anon. They need an easy, simple way to explain stuff to the audience. This is the problem with overthinking cartoons.

>>86112598
He is useless, literally all three times he was either alone or the one who should have handled the situation he fucked it up.
Do you see now how he needs to change?

>>86112607
No, giving viewers a hint ist the same as sitting next to Steven and telling him where he came from, I'm not just talking about heh kid you are an alien but talking to him about how things where.
Even fucking Greg knew about it and said nothing

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>>86112574
>it's like telling a kid in his 26 birthday
No it's not. Where'd you get that comparison?
Steven is 14.
It's not unreasonable to tell a jewish kid about that only when they turn teen.

>>86112617
So shitty shitty shit shit writing for shitty shitty shot shit audience who can't tell better?

>>86112618
He fails so he can improve. It was already mentioned in earlier posts (dunno if it was you). Besides he also have successes in Lapis and Peridot, and moderate progress with Centipeetle which makes believable he feels motivated to try. Is not like he's blindly trying to talk his enemies down, he knows it has worked in the past so he's seeking to repeat that achievement.

We know Steven will learn from this. This is how it works.

>>86112643
Typo I meant 16 but yeah 14
Steven is completely stupid about everything, the show would have made sense if he met the crystal gems in the first episode and they had a pact to tell nothing to him so he could grow on his own like rose wanted.
As it is there is no excuse for Steven not knowing incredibly basic things he should have absolutely know about

>>86112649
Yes. You don't need a more complicated answer than that. It is what it is.

>>86112669
Petridot and lapis got stranded in earth and never had any intentions to fight anyone in the first place, they could have been blindly talked down and taught about earth, everyone else no

>>86112693
Peridot tried to kill them and Lapis is not above hurting if she feels cornered. The usual appriach by the CG would have made things way more difficult. And getting Peridot on their side has been pivotal in their resistance to Homeworld forces. Lapis just hangs out with them because of Steven.

I agree though that the other three are different but Steven still had motives to try.

>>86112676
But there is an informal Pact, which Pearl stated was to not tell Steven things until he was ready. It's an in-show excuse sure, but justified by Pearl's crazy controlling neuroticism.
We saw how comfortable Garnet was telling him stories. If it were up to her or Amy they would've told him everything by now whether it was helpful or not.

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>>86112531
I'm feeling a lot like you are about the show right now, anon. Between that and the mood whiplash between dropping big plot and lore bombs and toying around with the townies and generally awful pacing I've pretty much had enough.

I want to move on to greener pastures but WOY got cancelled, TAWOG is getting cancelled, PGBC never picked up like I was hoping, and everything else currently on air isn't even remotely captivating for me outside of idle entertainment.

>>86112128
>What would be the shittiest possible ending for you?

>Gems fight diamonds
>Lose to diamonds
>Steven comes out and talks
>Diamond: Oh, you're right. We'll stop everything evil forever now! Also you're our friend now.
>Everyone: Hooray!

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>>86112635
>Even fucking Greg knew about it and said nothing
Yeah, Greg, the adult man. I don't know what you're getting at. There have been things Steven has found out about before the Gems thought he was ready to handle, or would need to, like Pearl reforming. And there have been other things the Gems have told him in their own time, like the truth about the monsters they fight. I'm not sure if this is a complaint about characters actions, or about the show's writing, but if it's the second one, I'm not sure how it's not realistic that they would want to keep certain things secret from Steven until they thought he needed to know them or was ready to.

>>86112744
You realize even the easiest foe-turned-ally took like an entire season to fully convert, do you?

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>>86112719
>TAWOG
>greener pastures

>>86112768
Screeching banshees and mom jokes are my jam, what can I say?

>>86112260
>a character so stupid that he hasn't yet formed his own idea of what good means

Steven being so stupid is really believable since he's homeschooled and all. Source: I was homeschooled.

>>86112778
This. I wonder how many anons here remember the sort of stuff going through their heads at age 13-14 and how perceptive of the subtle reality around them they were at that age.

>>86112348
Do we even know what Jasper did when working under Pink Diamond? Did she fill a role similar to the one Pearl did for Rose like you suggest or was she just another faceless soldier? Look at how Yellow Diamond treated Peridot when she called her and how fanatical Peridot was before her turning point. Pink Diamond's and Jasper's relationship was most likely very similar.

>>86112415
>Rose seems to have won the war for Earth by being far too much trouble to be worth dealing with.

I don't think so. I think they just set up the cluster and then left expecting it to take care of Rose and her rebellion just by hatching. I mean if you set up a big time bomb in someone's home without them noticing would you keep on trying to fight them or would you just leave and let them fall into a false sense of security while you wait for the bomb to go off?

>If she'd focused more on shattering her enemies, she may have increased homeworld's desire to stay and get revenge.

This I agree with. If she did start shattering enemies left and right, rather than just shattering a diamond and leaving it at that, then whatever it was Homeworld did to Earth that corrupted all of those gems could have been a lot worse, potentially not even giving the cluster a world to incubate and grow in. Granted, we don't know if the Gems have this capability or not yet but I wouldn't be surprised if they have some planet busters somewhere.

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>>86112759
>entire season
Try more like 5 episodes.
And then we have Lapis who forgave the 3 Crystal Gems OFFSCREEN.

>>86112483
>Is Steven brain damaged? It would be completely believable if he was

Especially considering he's a hybrid of two radically different forms of life. His brain could very well not work well due to Human and Gem biologies not melding together well. Aren't real world hybrids sickly and weak when compared to the purebred species they came from?

>>86111608
>Violence is a flaw
Pacifistic pussies everyone, just think of all the problem we could solve on this rock if we just killed all the causes of the problems.
>but killing is evil
No killing solely for pleasure is evil but killing for a logical motive is morally neutral.

>>86112921
>implying you need to be violent to kill

Passive murder is the best form of murder

>>86112921
>just think of all the problem we could solve on this rock if we just killed all the causes of the problems.
Congratulations, you have a mind so primitive it was already thought up thousands of years ago and caused all the problems you're proposing we kill.

>>86112716
And to be fair, I don't think the Crystal Gems have ever raised a human child before. So have no real idea when one would be "ready", whatever that even means, to learn about some of the horrible things like the Gem war. Not to mention Steven actually isn't a Human child, he's something different, which complicates matters further. Telling him everything all at once instead of slowly as things become relevant would most likely not only overwhelm Steven with too much information to process but shock him with something he's not prepared to hear or see. Would you want to show a child or even a teen the horrors of war? No, you wouldn't.

>>86112759
I would assume any actual Diamond confrontation would happen during a series finally. Unless the Crewniverse pulls some "bigger fish" out of their ass the CG and Diamonds need to team up to fight against. And even then, the allies they did turn did not take an entire season.

>>86112802
Kind of hard for most anons to remember an age they haven't reached yet.

>>86113003
And just because there are child soldiers in Africa doesn't mean I'm going to send my kids off to experience the same thing. The gems are controlling what they can and dealing with what they can't as they happen as best they can manage.

>>86113063
>Steven's fate was decided long ago
Nah. Steven is the architect of his own fate, just like Rose intended.

>>86113063
But isn't Steven's whole thing being he gets to choose what he wants to do and who he wants to be? Yeah, he needs to learn and be informed in order to make the best decision he can. But some information just should not be told to a 14 year old.

>>86058862
How dare you... Everything is solved with violence.

>>86111783
>>86111915
Not him, but Kevin was SO OBVIOUSLY a metaphor that it became distracting.

>>86112433
I think it may end up like Avatar where he doesn't have to make the choice, as someone else gives him the third option or everything sorts itself out

>>86112554
Stuff like Restaurant Wars, or anything Lars/X Files guy are notoriously disliked

>>86112719
Gumball isn't canceled and PGBC should be coming back.....eventually.

>>86112988
Yes. They must understand this shit to form a good foundation on what life is like and what are realistic possibilities. Censoring them from the truth during key developmental stages will skew their world outlook towards the whimsical and unrealistic. When you finally do get the balls to reveal things to them they'll react with disbelief and be too old to alter their perceptions; they'll just be dysfunctional

>>86113236
That was Rose's whole thing, and ironically in leaving Steven and the CGs rudderless she forced him into her old role.

>>86058665
>lars waaaah
>why cant you be nice
>i just want everyone to be friends
>waaaah
and the people came together to get steven to stop whining. the end.

>>86099353
>talking about science on /co/
i dont discuss movies on /mu/, and im definitely not gonna get a half baked science lesson from a guy who watches cartoons.

>>86058665
Jesus, this show takes everything and turns it into a giant pussy.

>>86112812
I never suggested her role was similar to pearl only her loyalty was similar to pearl and to be fair I meant it in the sense that every gem loves their diamond the way pearl loved rose (maybe I'm a more platonic way tho)

>>86112744
Steven fuses with a diamond
Stedaimond fixes short-circuit in brain
Fusion was the solution all along

>>86112744
Or a very long 3 episode fight that had to be rushed in the animation stage