Is he our guy? Can he save marvel from the current shitshow its become

>>85960341
He's too old now, but holy fuck do Marvel need a Shooter figure right now.
Their current output is worse than Harras-era Marvel for fuck's sake.

>>85960341
He always was, OP.

>>85960353
>hes too old now
Hes not even 60
He became EiC at 19

>>85960378
Woah, are you fucking serious?
Hot damn, bring him back then, fuck yeah.

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>theres people who will hate Shooter because Byrne was a little bitch who tought he was too great for deadlines
Id love to see shooter rip someone like bendis a new one

>>85960341
He'd fire all sjws from Marvel, so yes.

>>85960341
This image always makes me thing about Superman movie.

>>85960474
And sales would continue to decline irrespective.

>>85960404
I've written to Englehart a couple of times via email and he says that a lot of those stories of Shooter going totally ape-shit have at least some kernel of truth to them, though he's not sure how much

I like Shooter a lot, but I've since become more realistic about my worship of him, like maybe he's not as great as everyone says he is

>>85960341
The combination of a hardass like Shooter, and madman creators like Gerber, produced a period in the 70s where Marvel put out some really great stuff - obviously due to the tensions, it was rather shortlived, but there was a real burst of creativity.

One of the big reasons comics in general are kind of fucked, from what I can tell, is that a lot of today's creators are solely 'comic people,' and there's this incestuous cycle when it comes to superheroes - whereas great creators usually have a passion for, and draw influence from, a wider range of mediums.

>>85961560
He'd fire Bendis too, though.

Shooter's not coming back. I don't think he'd even want to. Why do people keep floating this idea?

>>85961746
It's said that in the 90s he considered buying Marvel, when it was for sale.

>>85961716
See >>85961560

>>85960474
If he do it, he has my vote!!!!

is that the guy who had spidey teach the beyonder how to take a shit

>>85961777
>fuck quality, sales is what matters
Hi Brevoort.

>>85961716
And if he do this, i will buy Marvel books again!!

>>85961764
Between not having to deal with Perlmutter and not having to deal with Disney I imagine Marvel was a very different place to run in the 90s

>>85961833
I hope that he fires Perlmutter and Brevoort too!

>>85961796
Try sustaining quality without funds.

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>>85961796
You could wallpaper an entire house with the pages of good comics who died because they didn't sell, especially compared to corny shit like character deaths, legacy characters, events, etc

It's very easy to sell a gimimck; it's very hard to convince people to buy a comic because "it's good"

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>>85961885
>current Marvel has funds
>there's no quality at all

>>85961777
>implying

Pissing off your core fans isn't how you keep or even get readers. If Marvel would actually put care into books instead of making nearly everyone a tongue in cheek joke or not giving other exposure and canceling them after 6-12 issues then sales would go up. However it seems like they only want to appeal to an audience who reads comics ironically

>>85961894
>posts a crap actor who makes good money

>>85961894
You can't say it's hard when they never try. Squirrel Girl has been pushed to no end and sales always go down until another relaunch so they can do it again. While something like Starbrand and Nightmask doesn't get any exposure at all

>>85961644
I agree for the most part, but the surge of 70's creativity started a couple of years before Shooter took over. (UXM was ip 113 before Shooter gets his eic credit; Werewolf by Night, Master of Kung Fu Savage Sword of Conan, Tomb of Dracula and a bunch of other crazy shit started way before he came on baord and were already very good when he arrived).
Today's cape comics feel much more fan-fiction like than those of 70's that's for sure.

>>85961644
>
One of the big reasons comics in general are kind of fucked, from what I can tell, is that a lot of today's creators are solely 'comic people,' and there's this incestuous cycle when it comes to superheroes - whereas great creators usually have a passion for, and draw influence from, a wider range of mediums.

This right here. We need new creators with a wider range of interests.

>>85961560
There would be a huge fucking spike the sjws are 3/4 of why marvel is shit

>>85960341

Literally not a soul gives a shit about Jim Shooter.

On Jim Shooter's blog he asks you to buy stuff from amazon through his link

That's where Jim Shooter is at.

>>85962000

You're cancer.

>>85961894
Marvel was built on GREAT comics, that sold very well. FF and ASM in particular.

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>>85962001
>>85962020
Brevoort pls

>>85962020
He's not wrong. They spend their time trying to appeal to a group that doesn't buy comics while alienating, and sometimes insulting, old fans

>>85961894
That sounds a lot like Brevoort's reasoning that sells only what insult and infuriate the fans. This kind of rasoning ruined the Marvel comics currently, and explains why Brevoort is completely inadeguate for this job.

>>85961905
Marvel is gradually losing funds, same as every other comics publisher.

>>85961907
Comics have been in decline for decades. There are a number of reasons why, but foremost among them is that the medium has been outmoded by other forms of entertainment, just like pulp story magazines, which like comics were omnipresent back in the day. Pandering exclusively to soi-disant "core" comics readers won't reverse the trend.

>>85962106
>Marvel is gradually losing funds
Good. Maybe Disney will finally euthanize it.

>>85962000
Delusional.

>>85962106
But why help yourself crash and burn faster? The industry being less profitable is a reason why you shouldn't be trying to cash in on fan outrage. They also have plenty of movie and Disney dosh but that doesn't mean give up on comics entirely

>>85962142
Tom, I understand you're trying to protect your job but you're embarassing yourself. Again.

>>85962142
Its working well for DC.

>>85960341
Big Shooter is the only man who can save current Marvel

>>85962168
Attempting to broaden the audience is a sensible aim. The problem lies in the execution.

>>85962182
Really? In 1960, the average paid circulation for Superman was 810,000. Has modern DC equalled or surpassed that figure for Superman? Has it come anywhere near it?

>>85962082
a strategy that worked oh-so-well for the Ghostbusters reboot

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>>85962318
>being this much of a Brevoort shill

>>85961796
>>85962176
I don't even like Brevoort, but it's basic common sense that if you want to go on making comics, be they good or bad, you need revenue. Industry history is littered with the corpoes of companies who believed differently.

>>85962318
>Really? In 1960

I'm talking about the modern market. I know comics aren't what they used to be but currently DC is topping the charts

>>85962394
>but currently DC is topping the charts
Yes, in a declining medium.

>>85962386
>I don't even like Brevoort, but man do I love to suck his dick!
ftfy

>>85962420
Which has a lot of merit.

>>85962318
>The problem lies in the execution.
No shit but they're being extremely unapologetic about the way they're going about it and basically telling the fans "fuck you". Also you don't broaden your audience by completely changing what you are

>>85962420
And? The argument isn't 'is the media declining' it's 'who's selling comics and why'

>>8596242
That was true a few months ago

>>85962421
>People are either right about everything or wrong about everything.

>>85962529
Fuck meant to quote
>>85962420

>>85962474
>And?
And it's a blip.

>>85962529
It's still true. The rather modest uptake in DC sales is just that—modest. It will fall off before long, and the medium will continue its slow descent to extinction.

>>85962611
>the medium will continue its slow descent to extinction.
If that makes you happy...

>>85962637
Not remotely. But it's what will happen.

>>85962689
>I'd rather see comics die than DC outselling Marvel or Shooter coming back
Your problem, not mine.

>>85961644
I think the reason why comics are dying (among other reasons) is that storytelling is pretty dead at this point. Even if it's videogames, movies or comics, it feels that almost all the troupes are known at this point, and anyone trying to subvert those troupes just gets cowardly and goes back to their comfort zone.

>>85962769
Your problem appears to be basic reading comprehension.

Didn't this guy rape Ms Marvel?

>>85962776
People have been saying this about narrative-based storytelling since the nineteenth century. It's about as true now as it was then.

>>85960341

When it came to Shooter, there was a lot of bad mixed in with the good. He'd need someone to reign him in.

>>85962611
>And it's a blip.

It's something. It shows what readers want

>>85960341
How can Solomon Grundy save Marvel?

>>85962889
It shows what we knew already: sales temporarily go up with relaunches.

>>85962000

Just because you hate them doesn't mean everything is their fault.

>>85962828
Your reasoning seems to be "comics are doomed to fail and any up is just a fluke/flash in the pan". There's still a way to keep the industry a float and looking at market trends could help. Just saying "Oh well everything's fucked anyway" doesn't offer any solution

>>85962828
Yeah, maybe I have the same problems as Marvel books: no editor at all.

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>>85962776
>anyone trying to subvert those troupes just gets cowardly and goes back to their comfort zone.

Snyder is saving capeshit movies, but casuals and critics are trying to stop him.

>>85962854

Like, personally?

>>85962776
>comics are dying

>"We were just a bunch of punk kids working in the back end of Magazine Management,” said Chris Claremont. “Nobody bought comics. It was a dying industry, and we knew it. Nobody cared. We were just there to have fun. We all figured by 1980 we’d all be out looking for a real job.”

>>85960341
Shooter is one of those guys where you don't want him when Marvel's at a creative peak, but you need him when Marvel becomes a shitshow.

>>85962875
That it is dead?

>>85962854
How can someone be so based?

>>85962941
"Afloat" being the key word.

And there really isn't any long-term solution, short of going back in time and making sure that movies, tv shows, and video games are never invented. All that can be done in the meantime is damage control.

>>85962985
Yes. Where do you think literary modernism came from?

>>85963008
So we need to stop using storytelling.

>>85961894
Except Marvel based its entire platform on introducing quality characters AND gimmicks. ASM and Fantastic Four were basically the building blocks of the Silver Age. They were colorful, but like Lee said, the most important part was their flaws. They were characters, and they were real. Spider-Man's outfit and powers are cool, but Peter Parker is who I stay for. The Thing in just design is neat, but Ben Grimm will always be one of the all time best comic characters. After that Marvel still created great characters decades later that were both gimmicks and well written. Iron Fist, Howard the Duck, Daredevil, Invaders, it became a staple of Marvel for a long time to create world's that were both colorful as well as well crafted.

That is why Marvel is so bad now. They are so caught up in numbers that they don't have an imagination. If it's popular, then every title needs it. When it's not popular, completely dump it for the next flavor. Nothing is memorable, nothing feels like effort and a labor of love was put into it. It's incredible how Amazing Spider-Man went from being one of the best ongoing comics of all time to one of the worst.

>>85963029
Storytelling isn't the problem. The problem is the medium.

>>85960378
Wiki has him at 64

>>85961985
idk the british invasion has a ton of creators who had a wider range of influences and in the end they spend a hell of a lot of time complaining about how silly superheroes are.

Yeah you need to read things other than comics but it would be nice having writers who actually LIKE what they're working with and aren't too cool for their jobs.

>>85963161
>idk the british invasion has a ton of creators who had a wider range of influences and in the end they spend a hell of a lot of time complaining about how silly superheroes are.
This sounds suspiciously like a Byrne Robotics line.

The final straw for Shooter at Marvel was when all the creators got together at Bryne's house, threw a party, and burned an effigy of Shooter on videotape. They then sent a copy of the video to Marvel's new corporate owners, who recognized that Shooter has lost control of the troops.

>>85960341
Very few of the newfags here remember Shooter is the one who started the trend of super mega crossover events to spike sales. He's also that forced people to always had a can't-must (I can't do this but I must) dialogue in every comic no matter who or what it was. Among other stupid things.

Glad he's gone

>>85963269
Hi Byrne. How is that PhotoShop comic going on?

>>85963269
>super mega crossover events
It's around the time that these were introduced that Claremont began to lose the pleasure he took in writing X-Men, and it shows in the work. Inferno is almost unreadable, especially when you compare it to earlier multi-part stories that weren't crossovers, like the Dark Phoenix and Brood sagas.

>>85963286
Nah, he's totally correct.
>>85963322
Yeah, right around the time of secret wars 2 is when I get off the UXM train, but really it is all down hill and increasingly muddled after Cockrum's second departure, imo.

>>85963480
>oh boy, I found a new reason to hate Shooter and love Brevoort!

>>85963533
So mad, lol.

>>85963533
Not that Anon, but you do understand that it's normal to like a person for some reasons and at the same time dislike them for others, right?

>>85963711
>>85963645

>>85963807
So, no, you don't.

>>85963953
>2deep4u
Based Brevoort, I swear.

>>85963986
So, basically, Shooter = God and Brevoort = Satan.

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>>85964186

>>85964277
'Kay, just wanted to establish beyond doubt that you have the worldview of a child.

>>85964810

Will you please stop fucking feeding him?

>>85964835
He can't. He likes it in the ass, as any Brevoort fan.

>>85964835
"Feeding him" would imply that he's a troll rather than, you know, just plain stupid.

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>>85964976
>I need to talk to stupid people so I can consider myself the most intelligent man in 4chan

>>85964996
>I was only only pretending to be retarded.
Sure you were, "son".

>>85965091
>anyone who dislikes Brevoort is retarded
OK.

>>85965189
If you think this is about disliking Brevoort, then you aren't just stupid: you're mentally subnormal.

>>85965328
>backpedaling
Too late, Intelligent Anon.

>>85965354
You're too sharp for me, Ruseman.

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>>85965424
I'm going to the gym. See you another day, Brevoort lover.

>>85963480
The truth. Shooter's ideas are what turned Marvel into event hell. A lot of good things happened during his reign but he definitely is not what Marvel needs in order to get back on track.

>>85965450
Try not to punch above your weight while you're there, meathead.

>>85961644
The fuck are you talking about? Gerber's great titles came out pre Shooter era. If anything, Shooter cut that Gerber ride short.

>>85965713
/co/ barely reads comics: its knowledge of comics history is sketchy at best.