So is Mulan gay or bisexual?

>>85937417
She's a man.

>>85937417
She's a hero

She's a dandy girl in China.

>>85937417
she predates those concepts

>>85937417
In Once Upon A Time: presumably gay
Cartoon: presumably straight
Real life: I dunno, lol google it

>>85937417
She hunts the wild princess muffins. Dives deep betwixt their curtains.

>>85937479
>predates those concepts
No

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>>85937479
samurai had some of the gayest niggas in the squad back then

>>85937623
>>85937695
the idea of people having a set sexual orientation was invented in the 1870's

>>85937695
>>85937865

And Mulan existed centuries before the Samurai even came into being. Not to mention being from a separate landmass.

>>85937527
Historical Mulan:
>She is intercepted by the forces of the Xia king Dou Jiande and is brought under questioning by the king's warrior daughter Xianniang (Chinese: 線娘), who tries to recruit Mulan as a man. Discovering Mulan to be a fellow female warrior, she is so delighted that they become sworn sisters.

Gay.

They made her gay for OUAT for sjw brownie points. But in the movie, she ends up with Shang - I don't know why, because he left her for dead in the mountains, but she got over it.

>>85937984
So where did they bad gay people hit you?

>>85937972
>Historical Mulan:

>posts an excerpt from a section of her wiki article about a dramatically romanticized story about Mulan.

Nigger, please.

>>85938035
Don't act like it was thought-out beyond that. They didn't even go through with it, it was gay baiting and all she did was orbit sleeping beauty.

Hell they made Rapunzel black. They're not making these decisions out of the better interest of the people, it's all PR.

I'm so glad the animated movie came out at the time that it did

>>85937972
>who tries to recruit Mulan as a man. Discovering Mulan to be a fellow female warrior, she is so delighted that they become sworn sisters.


Damn, why didn't Disney adapt that story in Mulan 2.

It's Disney, their gay propaganda and their service at SJW's secret plan to sissify the world, so probably she is both.

>>85938135
Maybe they did.
Who the fuck remembers the plot to Mulan 2?

>>85937865
Yeah, but fucking the same sex is a thing since the ancient greece

She's an absolute lunatic.

>>85937417
She's Hot!

>>85938068
Its a HISTORICAL legend.

>>85937417
she's straight, she just likes to dress as a guy

>>85937972
sworn sister does not mean what you think it means

>>85938475
That's what my sworn sister said right before I put the hitachi to her.

>>85938420
And that shit wasn't in the historical legend; it was in a version written in the 1600s.

>>85937865
what a profound, ignorant moron you are.

>>85937865
>>85938163
There's a difference between a sex act and a 'sexual identity'.

One is something you do. The other is something you *are*.

Sexual identity was a 19th century invention.

Before then there was no such thing as homosexual, *or* a heterosexual. They simply did not exist as concepts.

Now of course there were always people fucking who they wished. There were perhaps even people that exclusively fucked their own sex.

When it was condemned by people, it wasn't because it represented a 'sexuality' -- it was because it was considered sodomy -- and therefore no better or worse than heterosexual oral/anal premarital sex.


Like imagine the early 19th century royal navy.


>Sea captain! I saw you fucking that cabin boy!

>Oh come off it, midshipman. We've been at sea for 18 months, who doesn't enjoy some good honest horseplay while away from the Mrs. Don't you go and get all righteous with me, I saw you consorting with those island girls in Fiji. If you don't tell my wife, I won't tell yours!"


>But sir -- fucking boys makes you gay!

>What the devil are you on about midshipman? How is my happiness relevant to this discussion?

>No sir -- I mean to say homosexual!

>Homo-what? Have you been reading that psychology nonsense again? This stuff will rot your brain, midshipman. Killing your father and sleeping with your mother? Rubbish. Absolute rubbish.

>>85939505
It wasn't invented as much as it was just given a name. People had their preferences back then, but social pressure had them do the collectivist thing and suck it up and fuck people of the opposite gender.

>>85937695
>>85937623
Niggers humans were fucking everyone and everything for a super long time, only now we have quaint names for categories of fucking based on sexes involved.

>>85937527
Why the flying fuck does that show have a real person in their fairy tale fantasy land?

>>85939505
well, thats not true at all, is it?

>>85939643
Because cultural appropriation is a bitch.

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>>85938144

oh come one, Moana wont be like that.

>>85937417
Once she sees Ping she's bisexual.

Ain't no woman goes unding'd by Ping.

>>85937695
>samurai in china

>>85937972
>>85938475
If it's anything like sworn brothers in traditional Chinese fiction, it's boderline "no homo, bro" or "bromosexual". Totally straight, but "bro is it gay if we spoon together?"-tier.

>ruby ends up with dorothy
i only watched like 2 episodes of this show but im salty

>>85939692
Goddamn why is he so ugly

>>85937865
>the idea of people having a set sexual orientation was invented in the 1870's

That's like saying "the idea of gravity was invented in the late 1600s, therefore there was no gravity before Newton". Men who "enjoyed the company of men" had been known throughout history (and likewise for women). That the idea of sexual orientation was only put into words in the 19th century does not mean it did not exist before then, just that it was never subject to scholarly study and formal classification. Men who engaged in homosexual acts certainly knew they were attracted to men as other men were to women, there just wasn't a word for it.

>>85940035
Because something to do with female beauty standards juxtaposed male standards.

>>85937417
Look at that hairline, she is gay.

>>85940152
There was a word for it then as there is now.

Faggot.

>>85937417
She's a Mongolian

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>>85940177
>>85940035

he is goofy! not ugly.

>>85939608
>It wasn't invented as much as it was just given a name.

But that's how concepts work: they don't exist until they are defined and named. Ideas and language go hand in hand.

The behaviors that existed before the 19th century would be described and treated by our 21st century ideology as homosexual, heterosexual, etc... but that was not the case in their own time.

Look. I'm not kidding when I say that homosexuality and heterosexuality were non-existent as social concepts before the 1870's.

They were created in the first place withe the birth of psychology when Freud and his contemporaries needed to define them as medical disorders.

Ironically, by pathologizing it, they immediately created an identity and a minority where none existed before.


Another interesting effect is that by creating the identity of homosexual, they also create homophobia, which in term supresses non-sexual homo-social relationships by homosexuals.


Like -- did you know that in the past it was acceptable for heterosexual friends to hold hands? No one was afraid of it being interpreted as gay because there was no such thing as gay. This was actually still the situation in india until very recently.

>>85937527
>bisexuals don't exist
every time

>>85937417
She is with a guy.

>>85937695
Wait, isn't this what Mohammed did with a cat?

>>85940238
homosexuality and heterosexuality certainly were seen as different concepts, after all people knew that one man sleeping with another was not something they wanted to have in their society or even outlawed it in places. So there must have existed a distinction, even if it wasn't critically observed.

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>>85937417
Ping looks FINE as hell.
Fuck bisexual I'd go full force fag to get some of that action.

>>85937695
Also interesting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu%27er_Shen

>>85940317
Yes, it was

>>85940332
I know that most laws against homosexuality were enacted because of Christianity

Funnily enough being a lesbian was never outlawed in the UK ever

https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-19315,00.html

>>85940238
So what do you call people stoning to death men who lay with men as man lays with woman? I understand what you're getting at, but just because there wasn't a word for things like "reverse psychology" before psychology was defined as a concept doesn't mean it's a relatively new thing.

We're pretty much going to be arguing semantics.

>>85937417
There is no universe where anyone would believe for an instant that that is a man.

>>85940332
No see here the part you're missing.

The act of sleeping with the same sex was observed and considered undesirable.

But the idea of *orientation* did not exist.
I said it before and I'll say it again.


One of these concepts is something you do.

The other is something you *are*.

That's a subtle but important distinction.


Hell, if you step outside of western culture, it's a distinction that is still present in Islam today.

For some fundamentalist Muslims, fucking a dude in the ass is okay so long as you're pitching -- but identifying as a homosexual is deeply haram and warrants death by stoning.

If the act and the identity were the same thing, such an ideology would not be possible.

>>85940441
Well, because of Christianity in the western world. Pretty sure that Jews, Muslims and far eastern religions at certain times didn't tolerate it either.

>>85940472
>Christians, Jews, Muslims

Well they're all Abrahamic religions -- they're not that different when you get down to it.

>>85940461
If you're a gay man today, in the past you'd be someone who prefers men. They'd call you "he who consorts with the like gender" and many would feel a specific disdain for you.

It's like there was never a word to describe how I felt at parties before the word "turnt" became a thing. Doesn't mean I was never turnt.

>>85940461
I can only partly buy that. The idea of orientation in the modern sense was created by the modern psychological movemen, I accept that.
But I would argue that a vague sense of differentiation already existed before that.

As an example take the Purgatorio, where on the highest step there are two circles of lustful sinners, one running in the opposite direction of the others. One representing the heterosexuals, the other the homosexuals, Of course Dante wouldn't have known the name for those two concepts, but he seemed to have viewed both as different concepts and not just different acts and expressions.
(I am not using Inferno because it's not quite clear if with sodomites he means homosexuals, pedophiles or if he even made a distinction between those)

A version of what you mention about Islam was, as you probably know, also practiced in Rome, where people cared more about who the dominant one was and thus there were names for the different kinds of homosexual men, but not homosexuality itself (if I am not mistaken)

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>>85937695

>>85939505
I was going to believe you, but then yo u wrote an unfunny dialogue, so I guess evidence can take a backseat.

>>85940659
Wasn't*

Phone correct

>>85940505
Cept one of those three is still really into the burning and killing of heretics phase. Other two just shun and sneer like a proper religious system.

>>85937695
Shit, that's cute.

>>85940573
>It's like there was never a word to describe how I felt at parties before the word "turnt" became a thing. Doesn't mean I was never turnt.

This comes down to whether you accept historicism or not.

Were you turnt? The raw historical events took place. Interpretation of those events after the fact will always be colored by the period where analysis takes place.

There's limits to the historicist position of course, but I don't think it makes sense to call Crisopher Marlowe a homosexual any more than it makes sense to call the Wife of Bath a feminist.

>>85940586
>As an example take the Purgatorio, where on the highest step there are two circles of lustful sinners, one running in the opposite direction of the others. One representing the heterosexuals, the other the homosexuals, Of course Dante wouldn't have known the name for those two concepts, but he seemed to have viewed both as different concepts and not just different acts and expressions.


And yet despite Dante hinting at ideology centuries ahead of his time, he portrays them as subgroups of sodomites.

>>85940873
He never mentions the term 'sodomites' itself in connection with the circle on Purgatorio, interestingly enough.
That's why I mentioned that to Italians at the time the term might have meant something else, as in general it has different definitions throughout Europe.

But man, this just all really makes me wish Kartbeny's terminology hadn't become the prominent one. I wonder how things had worked out had the model of Karl Ulrichs become the accepted term.

>>85937695
>Samurai
>China
Thank you anon for making my inner /his/ and /int/ laugh.

>>85937417
thats not an undercut

>>85937417
reminder that the only Once Upon a Time's worth watching are In The West and In America

>>85940873
Yes I was turnt. People were also getting crunk during prohibition.

>>85939762
>bro is it gay if we spoon together?
Well...is it?

>>85937865
>The only things that happened were things that people talked about.

You deluded small minded loser.

>>85942954
no

>>85942954
>>85943061
Well by traditional standards... no

totally no homo bro

>>85940257
They are just less gay. You don't need a category for that.

>>85939505
This. You would be surprised how much things just "existed" but that we didn't really pay mind to until we gave them names. The black and white races didn't exist until we needed a reason to subjugate Africa. Hell, the COLOR BLUE didn't "exist" for millennia of human civilization, and still doesn't for many societies; it doesn't exist that much in nature, so there was no reason to have a name for it.
>What about the sky?
What about it? It's sky-colored.
>The ocean? Water?
Clear or green like the grass or grey like smoke, duh.
It's actually kind of scary how much language and having or not having terms for abstract concepts changes our perception of the world around us.

>>85937417
WTF! Why did they cast a woman for Ping?!

once mulan is confirmed bi

>>85940317
What the fuck, I love Muhammad now.

what is this

>>85943764
It's not gay dude. Relax.

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>>85937417
She's both. She's also a tranny. That progressive enough for you?

>>85943400
Recently I read about a scientist who didn't teach his daughter what color the sky is.
When he asked her a bit later in life she was first confused and later answered it was white before even later settling on blue.

>>85943917
Scientists are magnificent assholes.

>>85943917
>Recently
You read that ten seconds ago in the first article google gave you when you searched "Word for blue before modern times"

>>85938145
Mushu ruins everybody's lives

>>85940035
Polynesians, not even once.

>>85943917
Yeah, that's the story I was referencing. I knew about the phenomenon before (Japan is one of the most recent major civilizations to incorporate blue as a concept and I'm a major weeb), but that program blew my mind. It's like the Blue Toyota Phenomenon, but like... a fundamental part of our aumwelt. Can you imagine the other things we might be missing? Can you imagine how shit is out there that we're finding false patterns in?

>>85944029
>Polynesian

She's of Korean descent, not Polynesian.

why dose it mater

>>85944086
Man Aliens are gonna blow our fucking minds, and probably vice versa.

>>85937865
>>85939505
I believe you anon but people are just going to nitpick and dispute this fact no matter how it's argued. Don't let small ideas restrain you. sexual orientation is a meme.

>>85940457
It kinda was? You won't find examples of reverse psychology mentioned in ancient greece or olden times, nor any psychological concepts like ego, projection, else.

>>85940586
The difference being, the Gay was something you did prior to the innovation of sexual orientations. Not something you 'are'.

>>85937438
She's swift as a coursing river!

>>85944086
There are theoretically infinite concepts and perceptions we are missing at any given moment.

>>85944086
>umwelt


Sometimes I'm surprised at the variety of intellectual I find on 4chan.

>>85944086
What is the Blue Toyota Phenomenon? Google didn't give me anything.

>>85944086
Thanks to crayons and computers I'm pretty sure that I'm not missing any colors due to being unaware of the concept.

>>85942118
I feel like you people are retards with not realizing these things existed just and you're not aware that they existed under different names or terms.

>>85937417
No

>>85937527
>lol google it

>>85937984
What is OUAT?

>>85952264
Once Upon a Time.

It's like Lost but with Didney characters.

>>85940238

>this guy denying centuries of the holy catholic church killing gay people just because

Gay behaviour was a thing, and then it was not for a LONG time, not 1870.

>>85940873

>something does not exists until its named and analysed

People were gay and it was seen as wrong, just not called that.

Are you serious?nThis go beyond overthinking, it's just dumb.

>>85939643
I mean, she's a character of ballads and poems, so it's not exactly far off. It's possible she was real, but unknown.

>>85943400

>The black and white races didn't exist until we needed a reason to subjugate Africa.

Actually, there was a clear distinction way before that. Indians perceived white man as gods with pale skin, and africans just sold us their slaves because we were white.

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Alright "there's no blue before you name it" guy, what color is pic related?

Does it not exist?

>>85937695
>samurai
>china

>>85954429
>this guy denying centuries of the holy catholic church killing gay people just because

Are we ignoring the part where the priests were boy fuckers?

Like -- why else would you take vows to never marry?

>>85937417
So...I was in the river this morning, bathing, minding my own business...when I caught a glimpse of Ping behind the reeds.

I don't think he saw me, but damn...all this training has really transformed the guy! I remember when he first got here...poor bastard looked like he was gonna die. But now...he's become a fine soldier.

It's funny...all my fellow soldiers bathe around me and I don't feel anything...but the second I'm around Ping...no...it's wrong to feel that way about another man, right?

But...Ping's come so far in his training, and everytime he gives me that wink or pats me on the ass after hand-to-hand practice...

...How do I tell him?

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>>85937695
>>85937932
>>85939733
>>85941163

WEI WEI WEI
SO
YU BE SAYIN
[slurps noodles]
HO UP
YU BE
HO
[chews chicken feet]
YU BE SAYIN
WE WUZ
[sips tiger bladder tea]
WE WUZ DIM SUM KINDA
SAMURAI AN SHEET??

>>85937417
She's just Asian, you Occidentalist

>>85943360
They do and for some reasons lebos get pissed when I refer to myself as gay when they know Im bisex

>>85937417
Mulan is straight. Shang is bisexual because he fell in love with Ping before he fell in love with Mulan.

>>85954901
Fresh Pink or ingenue?

>>85940344
i think shes cute but if you cant tell this shoop from real life you're a sad sad faggot

>>85958249
N-no, he could just subconsciously sense that she was a girl by her pheromones

>>85958538
>>85958229
that or he's straight and was seriously conflicted by the super feminine dude who was obviously into him.

>>85958538
But he wanted to make a man out of ping to make sure he was twice as manly as he is.

>>85958538
Shang took it way too personally when he found out her secret. It was literally the reaction of someone who had just come to terms with being a homo only to realize that this man he's fallen for, this man he's probably had fantasies about and started imagining a future with, was a woman all along. He seemed like he had betrayed expectations about the future of their relationship. None of the other soldiers were affected that deeply.

This is Disney we're talking about here, they put gay shit in all of their movies. I'm sure they did this deliberately and it's no surprise why this interpretation is so common. They laid out the hints for anyone perceptive enough to pick up on it.

>>85959804
Fucking hell, now I have to watch the movie again just because of this

>>85959857
Okay, I might have oversold it just a little. It's really more a matter of subtext than anything, but there's definitely chemistry between Shang and "Ping". He seemed pretty tsun with her from the moment they met, then when he finally becomes dere the secret comes out and it all, well, you know.

>>85959857
Condensed meme version http://imgur.com/gallery/ZlIzH

>>85938144
lol, still every single one of their protagonists is either straight or at the very least unconfirmed

Paranorman was more SJW than Disney

>>85939203
why else would the church insist that homosexuality is a choice?

they remember

>>85940185
not really
the word originally meant "bundle of sticks" or "person carrying sticks"

>>85940457
it was the same as stoning adulterers

>>85954789
they sold the slaves to everyone

>>85954901
looks peachy

>>85955280
it had something to do with land ownership

>>85958249
>Shang is bisexual because he fell in love with Ping before he fell in love with Mulan.

if falling for traps is gay, then falling for reverse traps is straight.

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>>85937468
She combs the countryside like her pompadour, on the search for Huns

>>85958249
Well, it was really obvious.
I think everyone just entertained her shenanigans because she's cute.

>>85959804
>they put gay shit in all of their movies

Where is the gay in The Black Cauldron?

>>85937417
She was a woman who pretended to be a man to save her father and in the end still likes a man. She's normal.

>>85963614
>movie is about dead men being revived by being shoved into a dark round hole

>>85958249
How do you love someone, but leave them to die in the snow?