Opinion: Why the DCEU Is In Real Trouble

>>85539118
Doesn't matter, they make money.

>>85539302
Enough?
Because Hollywood execs have obscenely high standards as to what constitutes a success.

>>85539118
>shilling IGN

holy shit, /co/ is dying so fucking hard when they are actually looking toward IGN for anything other than keks


fuck you you stupid millennial.

>>85539327
BvS and MoS made over half a billion dollars each. So will Suicide Squad. JL and WW will likely make even more.

>>85539118
But SS is doing well. Also >>85539327. The larger issue is creating a cobble together universe to compensate for being late to the game. Three movies a universe does not immediately make. It take time. We got more than that in the MCU establishing 4 characters across 4(?) movies
>Iron Man 1+2
>Thor
>Captain America
>Hulk

>>85539425
By the time we get the Justice League movie there will have been 5 movies

Marvel had the Avengers movie as it's 6th

They aren't rushing anything

>>85539425
It still hasnt met the absurd Studio standards. It made its money back, but WB still wants a big winner and ultimately will unknowingly sabotage their own movies to do so. Wonder Woman will disappoint, and Justice League is dead on arrival

>>85539118

The director already said it's complete bullshit.

>>85539494
They already have anon. And they still need to flesh out Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman, and Steppenwolf in one movie, not to mention revive Superman. Just look at how much theyve crammed in their first 2 installments, and Suicide Squad has little to do with JL so it barely counts as proper setup

>>85539425
>Three movies a universe does not immediately make

Three movies in and there's already more of a cohesive shared universe than what Marvel had AFTER Avengers.

>>85539533
No, he didn't. He called it art and that he had the final say in the theatrical cut.

>>85539118
>more than one IGN thread in a single day
some intern has too much time on his hands

>>85539541
>not to mention revive Superman

It would just take about 3-4 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCjPBpdlccM

So, we are still running with the "disgruntled ex-employee" story.
Great.

>There need to be multiple great films to really mark a change for the series.

I'd like to see them make one decent film first.

>>85539603
You cant honestly think thats a good idea. So you want Superman to be the dues ex machina of the final act, fly out of his grave, and basically save the day for the final battle?

>>85539541

Right. Because we ALL remember What'sHisFace's backstory from Thor the Dark World. Because Black Widow's solo movie really filled in the blanks. Budapest!

>>85539541
So three characters and a villain? Just like every movie ever. Sounds like a big ask, not.

I think the reason why DC movies are some what bad is because there not made by love. There made by people who don’t like, don’t care, don’t understand the characters and don’t understand what the means to people and the world. Like Zack Snyder for example doesn’t understand Superman. Superman in his movies isn’t Superman. Superman isn’t dark. That’s Batman’s job. Superman isn’t realistic He isn’t gritty. He’s hopeful, optimistic and fun. He’s outfit should be bright. He can in dark stories but he him self must not be dark.

>>85539791
Be honest, no one gives a shit about Widow
>>85539800
And WB has done SO well juggling characters thus far havent they?

>>85539785
His Death was dumb, might as well make the Return dumb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG1_kz3582M

How would you make it not dumb?

Gandalf? You want to go all Gandalf the White?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExU37Xz5Q0Q

>>85539862
>And WB has done SO well juggling characters thus far havent they?
WB? Yes. This is the studio that made Harry Potter, perhaps the most famous trinity (Harry/Ron/Hermoine) in the world today. Also the matrix, one of the most amazing ensemble movies headlined by a staple trinity (Trinity/Neo/Morpheus).

In the DC Universe. Yes again, Superman/Lois/Jor-El/Zod.

I worry that you guys don't think sometimes.

>>85539391
That doesn't stop them from being awful, forgettable movies. They infuriate fans too and waste everyone's time.

>>85539862
yes they have anon, I really liked how we got to see Superman really make a change on Batman, which further establishes Superman as the "first" superhero, transforming Batman from a vigilante to a superhero.

>>85539746
This.

Just one good movie. That's all I want to see.

>>85539937
They don't need to be remembered, they just need to profit for now.

Then they can reboot it and do better next time. Everybody wins!

>>85539862
>And WB has done SO well juggling characters thus far havent they?

I think so. It's far more cohesive than Marvel in certain regard.

>>85539928
Wow the autism is strong today. Hows /tv/ these days?

>>85539550
this


>>85539717
yes, cause neo-/co/ is full of meme hustlers, bitch plebs, and cancer


>>85539746
They already made 2 and a half decent films anon, im sorry your taste does not allow you to enjoy them

>>85539976
lol. Yes, please accuse me of autism because I'm aware of the movies WB has produced.

>>85539924
>dumb

man you made such great points and really explained why someone should hate it.


but in all seriousness, I really love that scene, with just two lines Superman assures us his love for humanity is equal to his love for Lois, despite all the hate and praise and arguing over politics.

>>85539976
>autism

i dont think that word means what you think it means you walking pile of aborted fetuses.

>>85540033
>but in all seriousness, I really love that scene, with just two lines Superman assures us his love for humanity is equal to his love for Lois, despite all the hate and praise and arguing over politics.
I believe the point is also that the world is mistrusting of Superman and thus unable to accept them. By giving his life he makes the ultimate sacrifice and shows unequivocally that his intentions were nought but the best.

>>85539937
>forgettable movies

How are they forgettable when we're STILL talking about MoS and BvS almost on a daily basis. Meanwhile the old Marvel movies are forgotten whenever a new one comes out.

>>85539582
wrong movie

>>85540056
oh for sure, I just really love his last line before death too. Its also assuring Lois that he loves her just as much as he loves humanity. Its a kind of super, platonic love. Maybe its just im really into the girl im seeing right now, but seeing Superman being forced to leave the only human (outside of his family) that has unconditionally accepted him, and seeing how in love they are, just pulls on my heart strings.


We don't get enough cute couples in superhero movies

If you don't like it just don't watch the movies.
I haven't seen BvS or Suicide Squad yet and I'm trucking along just fine.

>>85540103
>We don't get enough cute couples in superhero movies
Aquaman is coming anon.

Coming from someone who loves MoS and BvS, the best thing these comic movies in general do is allow for reprints.

I love Aquaman, super excited for the movie, but I'm way more excited at the prospect of having reprints of David's run. Happened with Ostrander's run of SS, and we're getting some Wonder Woman shit already.

I assume it's the same for Marvel as well. Any Marvel fans able to confirm?

It doesn't matter how many movies of set up there is, if the set up you give doesn't win people over.

Why would I care about this Superman coming back from the dead for Justice League if I didn't like him? Hell, why would I bother seeing him get his shit pushed in by Batman if I didn't like him?

>>85540152
I kind of see what you mean.
The DCEU has been a hot mess for me but it's given me an excuse to re-read and story time Birthright, at least.

>>85540102
What? The Wonder Woman director trashed his own movie?

>>85540193
Shit, did I get it wrong? I thought Ayer was the one saying "Art! My cut!" It's getting difficult to keep up with this shit.

>>85539937
Fans don't mean shit if there are enough mainstream audience who have no problem paying to watch the movies.

>>85539582
>he

>>85539937
>They infuriate fans
No, no, Anon. They're made for the fans, don'tcha see? If you didn't like it, you're a critic and if you're a critic you couldn't possibly see how awesome the DCEU is.

>>85540323
Ayer's a guy. He said that he was fine with the cinema SS cut and that it was art:

http://www.slashfilm.com/suicide-squad-david-ayer-cut/

http://geektyrant.com/news/david-ayer-describes-suicide-squad-as-a-anarchic-punk-rock-art-movie

>>85539391
A movie with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman for the first should have broke the billion mark.

>>85540346
You do realize that >>85539533 was talking about Wonder Woman, right?

>>85540389
>Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman for the first should have broke the billion mark

The fucking name recognition alone should've rivaled The Force Awakens.

>>85540389
This

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>>85540180
how can you like Birthright and not like BvS? It takes so much right out of it, including its interpretation of Lex. Pic related

>>85540157
Agreed, and it's paying off for Marvel because the audience is so invested in the characters and the general universe that they'll come back for every film, even for the characters they've never heard of. With BvS it's like listening to a depressed drunk retell a story in a divey bar, it's not really the tone you want for a shared universe of superheroes, (classic monster universe, it's spot on).

>>85540389
>>85540458
>>85540558
>A movie with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman for the first should have broke the billion mark.

You're all so greedy and critical.

>>85539118
>they fire me i'm going to expose them for the retards they are
>i probably should do it in a straightforward way that gives me credibility
>fuck that i'm going to throw a tantrum and look like i'm doing it because i'm all butthurt but those who loves the company fucking will have their ammo for the rest of the year!

yeah, no
good narrative for the doomsayers, though

>>85540402
When did Wonder Woman's director say her film was complete bullshit?

>>85540627
>With BvS it's like listening to a depressed drunk retell a story in a divey bar

Millenial please. How much Xanax do you have to take daily if you think BvS is depressing?

>>85540673
It should when you spend $400mil in marketing alone.

>>85540698
How is denying the ex-employee thing saying her film is bullshit?

>>85540714
Then they still made over 200 million in profits. What's the big deal? It did much, much better than most of the MCU films.

>>85539118
This thread again? About the butthurt fired employee?

>>85539785
If done properly this could work. It just needs good buildup.

>>85540766
>>85540673
The other anons are not wrong though. Those three are so famous that even people who aren't comic book fans know about them. Prior to MCU, Avengers are nobodies to mainstream audience, so saying that they did "much, much better than most MCU films" really isn't saying much, it's like the minimum expectation, really. The comparison to Force Awakens is also appropriate, because that IS the level to be expected from an established property.

Doing much better than most of the MCU films may be a big deal for other properties, but for Batman AND Superman AND Wonder Woman, they have to be able to do more.

>>85540701
I said the drunk was depressed, I would describe the film as sombre.

>>85540389
Lying critics and false word of mouth ruined the amount of money it made.

>>85540816
Like this anon said, we shouldn't be sitting here going "man Batman AND Superman AND Wonder Woman sold better than Ant Man gg Marvel DC wins"

It shouldn't have been close. Ever

>>85540389
There was a hate campaign from the media for not being Marvel.
I honestly dont know why some of you are denying it. Most folks are companyfags and CBMs are just another notch.

>>85540590
Probably the same reason why anyone can like the source material, but not the adaption.

>>85540861
Does the average person go on RT more often than they watch commercials where they can stumble upon the trailers?

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>>85540816
>>85540909
>tfw you live in a time where people love the once unpopular B/C-list more than A-listers

I am really glad that we got films like Winter Soldier, Ant Man, GotG, and Avengers, but honestly, the fact that the most popular comic characters Batman and Superman are now hated by the general audience depresses the fuck out of me.

They probably won't even be done justice in the next 10-15 years without people bringing up BvS, and even then... there's a good chance that the capefilm fad would probably be long gone.

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>>85539118
>shit on DC
>guaranteed replies
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you're literally shooting fish in a barrel here.

>>85540992
Normies memed other normies into thinking it was bad, as well as Marvel fans telling other people not to watch it. That's also combined with people who only care about the critic score. How can anyone tell how much that costed the movie? What if critics didn't lie and gave it proper scores?

>>85540766
>Then they still made over 200 million in profits. What's the big deal? It did much, much better than most of the MCU films.
The DCEU is meant to be a replacement for Harry Potter films. That was the only reason they were being made. If they can't make Harry Potter level money, they have failed.

And the thing is, BvS ALMOST made Harry Potter money... except, it costs nearly twice as much to make. So it is literally only half as profitable as Harry Potter. Warner doesn't like that.

>>85541045
>there's a good chance that the capefilm fad would probably be long gone.
This argument about it being a fad is part of the problem. There is no fad. Marvel Studios is growing a consumer base that buys Marvel Studio movie tickets, something they synthesised from nothing. There is a bmarket for DC films if only DC cultivate them. But if you think it is just a fad, and that you have no patience to nirture the fanbase, then you wouldn't succeed in keeping customers.

Do you see Disney worrying about Star Wars being a fad? No, they have plans decades in the future. Disney intends to keep Star Wars going. If you want your fans to stay with you you have to work towards that. On the other hand, if you assume your customers are fleeting, then it just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

>>85541076
Is there any proof of this? Is it possible they didn't enjoy it enough to see it again?

>>85541045
Look, anon.

People will always love Batman and Superman most of all.

Just not Snyder's Batman and Superman. Those two are probably less liked than most MCU heroes.

>>85539118
>having seen MoS, BvS, SS and not believing WW will be an overwritten mess

>>85539118
On one level, perhaps the most obvious one, the reason the DCEU is a mess is because the execs don't 'get' their product.

These are be-suited number-crunchers whose sole job is to make sure the business they run turns a profit. They are not creative by any stretch of the imagination, in fact their position actively excludes that from their thought processes.
And this is what shines through, the obvious commoditizasion of a product that needs 'heart' in order to connect with people and to overcome reticence to alien (sometimes literally) scenarios and characters.
Hiring a previously successful movie-maker to run your franchise might make sense but if that person is actively proud of not knowing a damn thing about the source material then you'd think that'd be a warning sign. But no, all the execs see is what his old movies earned and just assume his talent is translatable. All of which comes back to not 'getting' the industry they're working in.

>>85540816
>Those three are so famous that even people who aren't comic book fans know about them.

So's Jesus, but movies about him don't make mondo huge bank. Adjust your esoteric standards.

>>85541152
Well it didn't save Disney Infinity.

>>85541152
>This argument about it being a fad is part of the problem.
I only really think this because I remember during MCU's phase 1 up to the Avengers when almost EVERYBODY I knew kept up with it. Then halfway through phase 2, I remember some friends state that they're getting bored and burnt it out from the constant 2-3 cape films that come out every year.

>Do you see Disney worrying about Star Wars being a fad?
Fair enough. I guess I can be optimistic, I'm sure people thought SW was going to be forever shit after the prequels but then the animated shows and TFA rolled around.

>>85541259
TFA just shows how much people will support something based entirely on childhood nostalgia.

>>85541241
>Well it didn't save Disney Infinity.
Disney Infinity has well documented shitty business practices. It failed because it deserved to fail.

>>85539302
This

>>85539302
>Doesn't matter, they make money.
>>85541459
>This
Harry Potter films make 900million world wide from a production budget of 150million each. This is what Warner Pictures uses as their yardstick. They WANT DCEU to replace Harry Potter. So far MoS made 670m out of 225m, BvS made 870m out of 250m, and SS is likely to make 500m+ out of 175m, we will see.

None of them lost money, but none of them were anywhere at the level of Harry Potter films. Expectations are very real and can drag the films down.

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>>85539118
That tiara makes Gadot look fucking retarded.

>>85541417
That's pretty much Star Wars in a nutshell. Viewers under the age of 25 more than likely grew up with both trilogies.

>>85541633
You say that as though her face doesn't do the job well enough on its own.

>>85539118
>No single superhero film is going to be able to swoop in at the last minute and save the day for this franchise.

Isn't that what superheroes do? Swoop in and save the day? What better film to do that than Justice League? Hopefully Wonder Woman does well too, though.

>>85541823
it compounds the effect

>>85539391
Lol, 400 million budget only "makes" 500 million if you're so dumb you don't realize box office is the GROSS. Net on BvS was less than 200 million, which is pathetic.

The media have an anti-DCCU bias

It's fucking obvious. They praise Marvel movies for being trash while shitting on DC films for being fucking brilliant.

They shat on Man of Steel, they shat on BvS aand they shat on Suicide Squad.

Despite this, those films were fucking great, ESPECIALLY BvS. BvS is a masterpiece

>>85539118
>reposting this unsourced shit that's been debunked

Fuck off Disney shill. Sage and report, everyone.

>>85539582
>the director of Wonder Woman is a man
>the director of Wonder Woman is David Ayer

I hope your family dies of cancer

>>85539541
What in MCUck's addled brains convinced them that you can't do ensemble movies without having two or three movies to set it up?

Remember how the Justice League cartoon did it in 30 minutes?

>>85541652
I grew up with the Prequels. To me and most people my age Star Wars has been a shitty has-been franchise for all our lives.

>>85539118
Why is this board so bitter and insecure when it comes to film taste? Almost all of you are as bad as /tv/ is when it comes to film taste.

It's just a film, for fuck's sake. Just because you like one thing and you don't like another, doesn't mean you're better than everyone else.

I think it's time we all go out and meet some people.

>>85539937

I like almost every marvel film and I prefered MOS to all of them bar Winter Soldier and Avengers

>>85539118
The DCEU is in trouble because producers are as stupid as always but this time they have to pretend everything is part of a bigger plan because otherwise there's no DCEU

Basically imagine if when they made Catwoman they were "forced" to keep it canon and then we'd get sequels by the same faulty production team and then other directors like Nolan were forced to write the shit character into other characters' movies, and then the shitfest culminates with a JL movie starring Berry's Catwoman, Reynold's GL, Ruth's Superman and Bale's Batman as the only redeeming quality in the audience's eyes

This is a response to a post that said Marvel's audience is still growing. I can't find that post.

It's not and the series already reached the peak audience with Avengers, then that number also declined for Iron Man 3 and for Age of Ultron and again for Civil War.

By the nature of sequels, you're going to get a decay in the number of people watching since that group of people will need to have watched previous entries in order to keep up. Only Infinity War and Avengers 4 will have a chance at making more than Avengers 1

>>85543814
You're on an imageboard for adults who still watch saturday cartoons and read funny picture books. What did you expect?

>>85539302

Yeah, but when movies are bad it becomes a matter of diminishing returns. Each bad movie makes less at the box office than the one before. The stink of one bad movie affects the next like what happened to the Tim Burton Batman franchise.

>>85544271

Civil war made more than Winter Soldier. Iron Man 3 made more than Iron Man 2. The only MCU sequel that made less than the one before it was AoU simply because it was an inferior movie.

>>85545602
>Tim Burton batman franchise

But Tim only made 2 movies and both of them are the best cape movies ever. Unless you mean the Schumacher ones.

>>85545258
Patria o muerte.

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>>85539391

There's literally no reason that a movie literally called BATMAN VS SUPERMAN shouldn't have automatically grossed a billion on hype alone.

All they had to do was make a passable, mediocre movie at the bare minimum, and they couldn't even get THAT right.

The fact that it made only about as much as fucking Deadpool before it and netted the studio only a measly profit after it's bloated budget/advertising budget is fucking pathetic.

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Wonder Woman is a mess.
Wonder Woman is a waste.
Wonder Woman is a big fat mistake.

>>85541180
>So's Jesus, but movies about him don't make mondo huge bank
I'd say that's due to lack of advertising really

Also, isn't Passion of the Christ highest grossing R-Rated film ever?

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>>85540766
>Then they still made over 200 million in profits. What's the big deal?

>>Box office: #SuicideSquad made $43.8M in 2nd wknd — a 67% drop from debut, among worst for recent superhero films.

https://twitter.com/adambvary/status/764831125600481280

These superhero tentpoles are made with billions in mind and don't come cheap. Suicide Squad being another poorly-reviewed DCEU movie with a front-loaded opening, but weak box office legs is very troubling for WB/DC.

These films are not resonating with the public like the MCU films do and if this trend continues, not even the DC fanboys will show up on opening day.

And WB recognizes this is a real problem. If they didn't, WB wouldn't have done all the reshuffling following the fallout of BvS, and doing that PR stunt with Justice League. If everything was fine and dandy, Snyder would be continuing with his Injustice League vision, instead of backpedaling with his Justice Avengers film.

Suicide Squad wouldn't have been cut up to bits, if the poor reception of BvS didn't mean anything to WB.

>>85539541
Oh yeah, anon. No movie has ever had to introduce more than 3 characters at a time. What the fuck are they thinking?

>>85540590

It wasn't executed well at all. Snyder likes to take imagery and dialogue from the comics but does not include the context. There's a reason why these movies have audiences split.

>>85546673
BvS was so bad it fucked up a possibly good film

>>85545654
But they will never surpass Avengers numbers since they got viewers who were already into the MCU

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>>85540766
Anon. You don't want to bring money into this
See this?
Top grossing films worldwide. One WB film is there and only there because a film called Batman vs Superman will fill sets regardless of quality.
Domestically it's about as bad where it's just BvS and SS but they are 7th and 8th place and will likely be pushed out completely when the next 3 big Disney films come out this year.
And the bigger issue is each poor review, each dislike moviegoer is another seat lost to the next film. This is why Marvel Studios played it small with Iron Man and didn't play big till this year with Civil War, they were very aware that each shared universe film could effect another's sales. Theater Analysts believed Ant-Man would have made at least another 100 grand if AoU wasn't so poorly revived.
BvS was revived bad
SS is not doing any better overall
if WW is a stinker that's burying any chance JL will be a good seller quality be damned.

>>85541621
Harry Potter is among the best selling books of all time. No comic even comes close.

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>>85547076
See that's common sense talking but when talking Share Holders, CEOs and Producers, they just look over and say "well Avengers made 1.5 Billion, why can't we?" and when you try to explain to them that almost 5 years of build up and 5 films to reach for that and it was novelty for it's time, they will just hand wave it and say "Nah nah just put the heroes in it and make it look like a comic book, that's all you really need"

>>85546827
The movies that Clown Car too many characters end up like Brett Rattner's X-3 fiasco.

>>85546659
I think Deadpool beat it, but Passion definitely held the record for quite a while.

>>85539118

At least the cinematography & direction in WW will be good.

That was a big problem in SS

>>85544195
That would be so bad, I would HAVE to see it.

>>85545654
Where's the Civil War web dl?

>>85546424
The Schumacher Batman movies are part of the Burton Batman continuity, unfortunately.

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>>85547206
1.5 Billion with this?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>85543788
>>85546827
Uhuh, because Suicide Squad shows that WB knows how to do that effectively right? Cant wait for the sloppy 30min exposition dump. It can be done well, its just that WB has dropped the ball in the past

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>>85546495
>efore it and netted the studio only a measly profit after it's bloated budget/advertising budget is fucking pathetic.
That's putting it lightly
WB was pushing this as the Star Wars killer. And easily feed into the same level of advertising as SWs did.
Their strategy was to throw money at it and sit back.

>>85543788
>Justice League cartoon did it in 30 minutes?
They didn't, they got the ball rolling and hook you to keep watching for more, as a stand alone episode it's very empty.
Also comparing a half hour block cartoon aimed at adolescents to a 2+ hour film block is somewhat stupid.

>Jupiter Ascending. Get Hard. Hot Pursuit. Max. Vacation. Pan. Point Break.

Shit, WB was responsible for those messes?

>>85548189
A TRUE GREEK AMAZON WARRIOR

INB4 angry DC fans dismissing his opinion because he was fired.

>>85547206
Fucking AoU made like 1.4b and the execs lost their shit

And then people try to argue that other execs would be happy with the 800m BvS made

Fuck no

>>85547069
>by the end of 2016 BvS won't even be in the top 5 anymore
ALL DISNEY BABY

>>85548189
At least she's not chunky like the MCU Captain Marvel

>>85540775
It actually has nothing to even do with that.

It's just an opinion piece stating that the problem is DC makes bad films, and they need to start making GREAT films. Wonder Woman has to be GREAT. Justice League has to be GREAT. Aqua Man, The Flash, Cyborg = GREAT.

If even one of them is less than GREAT... It's all over. Fans will not want to see any more DC films ever again.

That's it. I just saved you 2 minutes.

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>>85539550
Keep telling yourself that anon

>>8553979
Are you having a stroke anon?

>>85539391
Batman vs Superman barley made a profit. It had to make around $800 million to break even once marketing fees and distrubution of revenue took into place and the movie in its run made $872 million, just about a $72 million profit.

Also as >>85540389 and >>85546495 said, it should've made at least billion dollars theatrically considering the characters involved in the movie.

>>85540701
>xanax
I dont think youve ever took xanax if thats what you think it does

>>85547076
What about manga sales?

>>85539302

Diminishing returns boyo. MoS and BvS underperformed. Suicide Squad had a dropoff after its opening. All three are critical laughing stocks.

It's not gonna last forever. You can only dupe the public so many times before the groans start every time the DC logo pops up in a trailer. Wonder Woman sure ass fuck isn't Suicide Squad in terms of hype.

>>85549421
This
At this rate they would have been better off starting with JL and working down to solo films because at least that be easier to spin doctor losing sales

>>85549281
hes right though

The 3 DC movies feel much more like a lived in universe where things are happening in the same world, where events shape the events in the following movies.

>>85539118
My works crappy internet is having trouble loading image on phone.

Is this that same article that in title admits it's source is some former employee?
I mean we've had plenty threads on it, not to mention the general idea that a former employee would talk positive about a company they got fired from or quit is stupid.

>>85550455
explain
give examples

>>85543696
It was plainly obvious when the "critics" said "just wait for Civil War" when BvS came out and "better than BvS" when Civil War came out, yet if BvS had come later they would have obviously said "just copies Civil War." Come on.

>>85551003
What critics said that?

Also I doubt they say "just copies Civil War." because BvS was in production much longer than Cap 3 was

if the bias was real and things went in that order they simply state WB failed to do with 3 heroes what Disney did with 12.

>>85550455

I don't give a shit about Marvel at all, but holy hell you are delusional.

>>85551092
Not that anon, i do remember one or two critics saying that

But why wouldn't they after seeing that shitfest? Anon reads "hurr i hate DC for no reason just gib money to Marvel plz i need that check", but what they meant was a simple "this other movie of the same genre and with a similar theme will probably be better, because BvS is that bad"

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>>85543696
Your saying the media have a specific bias against the idea of DCCU?
That if they just released single self contain DC films they be fine with it?
That the whole reason BvS failed was because the media doesn't want a shared universe of DC heroes.
Are you saying they care that much?
This is the same media that thought for almost a decade the Fox and Sony owned Marvel properties are part of the Disney ones.
You be lucky if they knew MoS tied directly into this.

>>85551172
>This is the same media that thought for almost a decade the Fox and Sony owned Marvel properties are part of the Disney ones.
They still think that
There were reviews for Civil War that were confused where Spider-man's stories from the 2012 and 2014 film were going to tie into all this.
They don't care or pay much attention to this kind of shit.

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>>85543696
>The media have an anti-DCCU bias
Whatever do you mean?

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>>85551407
>the wrap
>topic piece for click bait
great source there

Hypothetical question time:

If DC mad a really great movie. I mean really hit it out of the park: Would it still get shit on like the other DC movies.

On one hand I like to think the general populous actually give things a fair shake. On the other there does seem to be a lot of blind hatred for anything DC (For example I know some people that refuse to even try reading anything DC).

>>85551630
>If DC mad a really great movie. I mean really hit it out of the park: Would it still get shit on like the other DC movies.
Other DC movies like The Dark Knight Trilogy?

Or are you pretending it doesn't count?

>>85551630
Before BvS? It would have brought praise and joy to most media outlets like variety and competition seen in materials because it leads to an cape like arms race of who can make the best product.

Now? Everyone is very skeptical they will be watching it closer trying to avoid getting hopes up to be smashed. So it would get good praise but veiwers would be waiting for streams or other sources before putting money into it

>>85551122
You're the delusional one

DC
>Fundamental events that change the world and affect the characters as well as lay the foundation for upcoming movies.

MCU
>LOL Here's an after credits stinger!

>>85551786
>Now? Everyone is very skeptical they will be watching it closer trying to avoid getting hopes up to be smashed. So it would get good praise but veiwers would be waiting for streams or other sources before putting money into it


Seems like a legit answer.

Also I can't help but feel some critics are waiting to give anything DC scathing reviews. IT seems like they get a boatload more views that way.

>>85551630
Yes. That was BvS and look at how people hate it. The only way for people to like their movies is to make a BAD one which is a crowd/critic pleaser.

>>85551833
I know rite, WB finally had the balls to place the stingers in the middle of the movie. Revolutionary

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>>85551630
The last two Batman only films made a billion each and were given critical Acclaim.

There is your answer.
A lot of this shit about bias is spin doctor BS. similar things were said way back in 1999 when Phantom Menace was released, the argument being that the criticism it got was bias of people who didn't want a Star Wars revival.
Gl and MoS also suffered this.
It's just a knee jerk response when something you love (or want to love) is shitting the bed but you don't want to acknowledge it.

>>85551833
>Fundamental events that change the world and affect the characters as well as lay the foundation for upcoming movies.

>Superman changed everything, before his arrival we would've never thought a being with out-of-the-ordinary abilities could've broken into the White House to threaten the president
>...so to potentially face others like him i'll collect a squad full of freaks that existed and messed with our world way before. Let's hope the Batman doesn't get mad, he's a pretty menacing man and he's been around for a decade. Fucking Superman changed everything, man

>>85551960
Funny enough this whole "theirs a bias, they don't want it to succeed" happen all the way back in 1993 when Robocop 3 bomb and people started picking Robocop 2 apart more
Frank Miller argue that film goers and critics were against comic book style films and would never accept them no matter how good.

>>85546872
Pretty much.


Look at Fallout 3 and 4. Yeah, they have the Brotherhood of Steel, ghouls, the Enclave. But they don't really understand the characters or why they were created. As a result, it feels like a Saturday Morning Cartoon version of Fallout.

>>85539118
>one great film
DCEU had a great film?

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>>85553202
Man of Steel is the "best" DCEU film in that it's the least terrible as of this year with BvS and SS.

Still really fucking bad though.

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>>85553202
There is hope for the Batfleck movie, as long as studio meddling doesn't somehow ruin it.

>>85553270
In all honesty, I thought SS was the least bad.

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Reading through this thread made me wonder: what studio is currently worse - Sony or WB? I mostly hear about flops and underperformances from these two studios.

>>85539302
So do Adam Sandler flicks.

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>>85539391
>JL and WW will likely make even more.

>>85553559
Well, the thing with Sony is that their movies are flops but they are profitable.

There are advertisements through the whole thing and a lot of cross promotion with other Sony brands. Even with their biggest bombs they still manage to make some kind of profit.

WB on the other hand has an obsession with being a financial blockbuster, willing to create moneypit movies. SS is a great example of this, they had a servicable movie that would have brought a profit but their obsession with being as big as Disney made them pour more money into the project. The recuts and reshoots end up hurting the end product and we get the current 400-500 million deficit they are in right now.

A Sony movie only needs 100 million to be profitable. A WB movie needs a Billion to be profitable.

>>85553559
>Reading through this thread made me wonder: what studio is currently worse - Sony or WB? I mostly hear about flops and underperformances from these two studios.
They are both bad, but Sony realised it and gave up while Warner is still sticking to its guns. Mostly because the Warner CEO Kevin Tsujihara was the guy who was responsible for the DCEU, and he would go down with the ship if the DCEU was ever abandoned for real.

>>85553963


WB has these characters from the 70s, so...

>>85539118
>one great film and multiple weak ones
What great film?

>>85553963
http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/no-suicide-squad-doesnt-need-to-make-800-million-to-break-even-.php

>>85546673
>not even the DC fanboys will show up on opening day.
I'm a DC fanboy, and I not only missed opening day. I didn't show up period. I'll probably wait until one of my friend's downloads SS, because fuck all if I'm going to toss $12 on a 2 hours music video.

>>85551960
I want someone to make an edit where Alfred says "to destroy it?" and Bruce says "yes." That would've been a fun movie too.

>>85539533
I can't imagine that.
Even if it is bullshit he would never admit that. How stupid could you be to do such a thing?

>>85546673
>>85554382
Marvel fan here, after watching Batman v. Superman and Suicide Squad I've converted to DC! Marvel should just stop trying, they're already beat. It's over, DC won the company war.

Marvel didn't even need good movies just braindead normies who wanted to watch crap
>inb4 "muh company wars"
I'm actually a Marvelfag, when it comes to comics and a nothing fag, when it comes to cape movies

>>85551708
Eight years ago. People like you will be bringing that film up when it's twenty years old, even older.

>every dc film for two decades gets shit on
>BUT MUH DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY

There weren't even any expectations for cape films to be humorous back then.

>>85554200
>1. Movies that make a lot of money domestically make a lot of money overseas
Tell that to Transformers and Pacific Rim

>>85555295
>Eight years ago. People like you will be bringing that film up when it's twenty years old, even older.
People still bring up Thor 2, and we never stopped shitting on it. Same with Ironman 2 and that's 6 years ago. Ask me again in 12 years if you want me to know if I want to bring up the Dark Knight trilogy. But for now, yes, I am bringing it up. Because you don't get to set the cutoff date for no good reason. The critics then are still critics now.

>>85539302
>One great film
What did he mean by this /co/?

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>alleged
>anonymous
>ex-employee

I've read the note...it reads like a blog post.

Either way the films make money, no one in hollywood cares about art


>MFW this turns out to be a hoax but also true anyway

>>85546872
>>85553100

how does Snyder not understand the characters?

>>85556746
Because he only understands the parts of them that he likes. Unfrortunately, DC characters have more to them than just being violence machines that sweat testosterone all over one another while using their abilities in badass fashion.

>>85553559
Sony is delusional, but WB is just sad really, they should really be able to do better but it's pathetic.

>>85556789
see you still arent explaining about the movies missed the characters?

Batman going over the edge after being a lone too long? Man, we've seen that story in everything from The Dark Knight Returns, to Holy Terror, to O'Neils run.

Batman killing? Heck, thats been in every single adaptation outside of the adam west movie, and Snyder is at least classy enough to comment on it and say "okay, from now on Batman will no longer kill in adaptations."


Lex literally is out of Birthright, with some Hackman and silver age thrown in there. And before anyone says he was acting like a spaz, that was literally only in moments where he is alone or talking one on one with someone. He did indeed keep a cooler public face (which is why when him fucking up the speech was such a thing).
The opening to MoS is right out of the first episode of Superman The Animated series. It also borrows a dialogue from ASS for its trailer, uses dialogue directly from Birthright for Pa Kent and Clark, utilizes the Superman killing Zod bit from Byrne's run (in fact in that run he actually killed ALL of Zod's henchmen too), comments on our inherent nature to link Superman with other messiah figures (you know, how like half the population in BvS believed him a god), and Superman's first action is to turn himself over to save us all. His last action is to sacrifice himself to save us all. His very first adventure as Superman is him saving the world. He continues saving people despite how much they hate him or how much they might over praise him.

This is Superman anon. This is Batman. Don't be such a stick in the mud and realize that these characters can evolve while being true to their legacies, that is how these characters have lasted 75+ years. Do you think every run or adaptation should just directly copy what came before?

>>85550455
>>85550455
>The 3 DC movies feel much more like a lived in universe where things are happening in the same world
Nick Fury showing like every movie and constant easter eggs don't you make you feel like they are in the same world? The only movie that feels disconnected so far is GotG.

>>85539533
What is she going to say, really?
>Yeah that leak was totally right. This movie I'm working on for a major studio is a ton of shit and my boss is an incompetent just like the letter said.

>>85540590
>how can you like Birthright and not like BvS? It takes so much right out of it,
I can and have done a page by page story time of birthright showing how Snyder took ideas and imagery and managed to miss the forest from the trees or dilute the meaning by combining it with three other Superman origins.

Like, I bet you think the whole "wandering the earth" thing in Man of Steel was well done, don't you. When there's like five reasons he goes to Africa in Birthright.

>including its interpretation of Lex. Pic related
How?

>>85546673
>These films are not resonating with the public
i want this meme to end

>>85543788
>Remember how the Justice League cartoon did it in 30 minutes?
Sure. thirty minutes.
And like 5+ years of Batman TAS, Superman TAS (which introduced Flash, Aquaman, and Green Lantern), a crossover with Superman and Batman, and also Batman Beyond.

>>85557209
>not liking the wandering earth and saving people bit in MoS

pleb

>>85556945
I didn't say Snyder has them doing things they've never done. I haven't said that these are versions of the characters unfaithful to similar choices or behaviors they've made in comics in the past. Simply put however, he is drawing from instances of these characters respective pasts, that on a quantitative basis are either a minority of instances if not altogether outliers when compared with the bulk of choices made that filled the central area of their respective decision making/characteristic bell curves.

To answer your question, I think these characters have lasted for 75+ years, because writers come along and try something new that hasn't been done before. That's only one half though. Because the second half is that the good stuff that really blazes new trails and opens up opportunities for compelling storytelling (Kryptonite being added by the radio program, his ability to fly being added by the Fleischer cartoon for examples) are things that are solidified within the shared canon and held close as that canon moves forward. The other things though, the things that are something new just to be new that don't blend well with the character or flat out betray ideals that fit more naturally with the character that these new changes do or would? Those things are left behind within the historical documentation that back issues of comics are. Did the character do those things make that choice, or behave in that manner? Sure. After 75 years how could they not have? But is that something that fits the character more than the countless other times they didn't before and after the handful of times of that 75+ year publishing history that they may have?

>>85556945
>>85558275
A lot of people are willing to call the DCEU a complete dumpster fire that has no redeeming value. If it were, it'd be much easier to be ambivalent towards it, but it isn't. I have said in plenty of threads at this point that the overall plots of the DCEU movies aren't bad. That they'd be fine if only their execution were better. Snyder has the most inexplicable way of getting so much of his movies so right, that the only way they couldn't be loved is if he got an equal percentage of them as bad or worse than the good parts were good. And that's what he does, for me anyway. Yes, he brings in enough of the sacred cows that he can't be explicitly accused of not making a movie about the characters the actors are cast to portray, but you remember those changes I was talking about in my previous comment? The ones that happened, but everyone tends to pretend they didn't or ignore altogether? Well those tend to be the choices and instances that Snyder seems to almost prioritize finding, because in many of those instances they support and organically help form a narrative where he can rewrite these characters to be different than what they are generally conceived as being and more like the alpha, punch first/think later characters that he has make a career putting on screen. Absolutely, these characters can change. Writers can have creative liberty to tweak them. The thing is though, a change here and a change there can still leave a character familiar enough that the character still feels like themselves on the whole. Too many changes though, and that character just feels like someone wearing the clothes of the character they're supposed to be, but don't feel like. And that becomes the problem.

>No one stays good in this world, Lois

Superman and Batman are my favorite characters. I've seen them written by good writers, bad writers, creative ones, and boring ones. I've seen them in comics, in video games, on TV, and in movie theaters.

>>85558286
I've always been okay with them, even when a writer changed them a little this way, or that way.

When I watched the Con footage for JL though, I felt nothing. It's a movie I've been dying to see since I was a kid, and I felt nothing, because the couple of clowns who had made the choices they did in MoS and/or BvS were going to be bringing their baggage to the Justice League, and at this point, I really find myself wanting Superman to stay dead and for Batman to join him, because I can't stand the two of them in this universe, and I blame Snyder for that. Hell, Wonder Woman may wind up complete garbage, but I saw that trailer, and beyond it looking good (which isn't a guarantee of anything within this universe at this point) part of what let me consider the idea that I'd enjoy it was the fact that it being set during WW1 (something that I used to hate about this movie mind you) meant that I wasn't going to need to think about the shit from MoS or BvS that bothers me as much as it does. WW will be set before all of that happens, and maybe if we don't have to acknowledge the broader universe besides the almost certainty of a Mother Box tease, and if the movie is decent, I might actually have fun watching it, which is more than I can say has happened watching the rest of the DCEU up to this point.

Yes. Zack draws from comics. We all know how talented he is at referencing other forms of art within the referential collages he calls his movies. Unfortunately, when given an option to have a character do something they've done 5 times over the course of their history, or 500k times, Zack will almost certainly go with the former. Now you may say that is respecting a character's legacy, but after 75 years, what could they do that doesn't explicitly betray the character that hasn't been done at least once? How can Snyder choosing to have a character do something he's only ever done 5 times be respecting a legacy more than having him do what he's done 500k times?

>>85558026
Snyderfags love talking about how every visual has deep meaning and yet when he rips the meaning out of something it's totally okay.

Here's your (you) all the same.

>>85539118
Like, some sort of movie justice league

>>85553870
/tv/ is retarded, holy shit

I think the Baneposting might have gotten to their brains.

>>85559979
>/tv/
That was all /co/

>>85539804
this is true

>>85560018
I kind of doubt that because of the nomenclature used (normie vs casual) and because of how much DCEU "fans" worship Armond White.

>>85560082
fuck off zion scum go back to your space colonies

>>85539302

But if they were GOOD movies, they could make so much more money. The DCEU could be way more profitable than it currently is.

>>85560084
m8 >>77988614

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Why is Disney the only company that's not hopelessly retarded?

>>85560375
Not even shilling because DC movies are pretty shit, but Marvel movies have been very boring for a while now, and the fact that they have a five year plan just sounds exhausting at this point.

I guess Marvel is winning the commercial battle but the movies are such slogs that it's kind of irritating and undeserved. At least DC is punished for being shit whereas their competition makes bank by churning out flashy light shows about increasingly indistinguishable ciphers deploying half-baked Whedonisms and quibbling about 'topical' middlebrow themes to conceal the lack of substance.

>>85560756
>but the movies are such slogs that it's kind of irritating and undeserved

I completely disagree.

>>85560375
Wait why didn't they count the Spider-man, Fantastic Four, and X-men movies?

>>85562252
>Wait why didn't they count the Spider-man, Fantastic Four, and X-men movies?
Because Disney didn't make any of them until Homecoming?

>>85560104
name an actually good Disney Marvel movie

just one

>>85561363
I bet you secretly agree

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dose that wonder woman have a nice ass

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>>85560375
>wanting Nolanbats in a shared universe

It wouldn't work with the other films why would you even want this.

>>85565239
DCEU haters are incapable of rational thought.

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>one great film and multiple weak ones does not a great franchise make.
>one great film
What did he mean by this?

>>85565408
I know right. All DCEU films are great.

>>85539391
>So will Suicide Squad
After BvS what little interest I had in a Suicide Squad movie died outright. So I didn't go to see Suicide Squad.

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>>85547069
>A C-lister like Deadpool with a R-rated film is right behind a film with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman