Who was in the wrong here?

>>85402707
No one, like real life.

Fry

>>85402707
Fry was being sentimental and stupid.

>>85402707
Clearly the aliens. They are not like you and me, which means they must be evil.

>>85402707
The worms have the right to want to exist and they need a host, Fry has the right not to want to be infested by parasites.

Bit overall I'd say that Fry was in the wrong because he crippled himself for sentimental reasons.

>>85402728
>Muh grey morality

Fuck you. Real life has its own fair share of wanton villains and sociopaths.

>>85402831
Calm down, this isnt pocahontas

>>85402707
Leela

>>85402707
seems to me it's the exact same thing as it was with Nibbler fucking with Fry's past
If he had just ASKED him, he would have been awesome with it, whether it's going to the future or having your body superenhanced by intelligent little workers (maybe he'd leave out that theyre worms)
the policy of going behind his back or hiding in gas station egg salad sandwiches.. backfired basically.

>>85402707
Fry. The aliens were making him the best he could be, they weren't changing the core part of who he was. Self-improvement is not a bad thing.

>>85402846
Fry wasn't morally wrong, but he was stupid.

>>85402707
Everybody should have gotten infected by the worms.

>>85402993
>Self-improvement is not a bad thing.
But it wasn't 'self' improvement.

>>85403052
It would be if he allowed them to do as they did. They needed a home and food, he needed the improvements to his body that they provided.

>>85402862
except most things in the real world are still gray, often even with sociopaths involved.

>>85403052
There's a difference between self-improvement and self-improvement. Gosh.

>>85402831
>Disney Ratcliffe is a greedy, fat, racist one-dimensional villain
>Real life Ratcliffe was just the leader of a group of starving pilgrims to which the Indians promised food and then betrayed and killed in a incredibly gruesome way

>>85403197
Being made to conform to some else's idea of what's "better" is not self-improvement

>>85403371
They work only making him healthier stronger and smarter. That's definitely better.

>>85403371

True. But a direct upgrade to intelligence and physical fitness most definitely is.

>>85403455
Yes, but he didn't do it himself, so it's not really a matter of "self" improvement. He didn't choose to become smarter and stronger, he was just made to be, with no real undertaking on his part to do so. I think morally speaking he was right to reject the worms since he didn't earn anything that they gave him.

>>85402707
Leela, for only liking Fry after he was the perfect human.

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>worms improve your life immensely
>all you have to do is give them a place to stay and deal with the occasional itchy butthole
>"I HAVE TO GET RID OF THESE WORMS BECAUSE STATUS QU- UHHH I MEAN BECAUSE LOVE INTEREST!"
Fry fucked up.
He could've become a millionaire playing the holophone, but he squandered it over a mid-tier waifu.

>>85403444
>>85403455
Nope they changed his personality. Whereas before, he would laugh at that lamp falling, with the worms, he wouldn't do that anymore. They changed his sense of humor.

>tfw no worms turning you into Gumbercules

>>85403518
This, especially for sabotaging the attempt to get rid of them.

>>85403513
>Yes, but he didn't do it himself, so it's not really a matter of "self" improvement
So? Why is that important? Most of the changes you undertake in life aren't a matter of your personal decision making. If an accidental brain injury somehow turned a sociopath into a nice guy would you go, "not good enough he didn't change on his own." That's retarded. As retarded as Fry is without the worms.

>>85403537
He was just better able to express himself and articulate his thoughts better than before.

>>85403620
>He was just better able to express himself and articulate his thoughts better than before.

This. Fry was still Fry, the worms were just flying wingman.

>parasitic entities host inside your body
>they live and prosper while they increase your intelligence, physical abilities, body strength and else
>get rid of them because muh feels

>>85403537

I don't think they had any direct effect on his personality. The lamp example is just a side product of humor naturally changing with new intelligence and understanding. If the worms could affect personality, they would make it so Fry wouldn't want them removed.

>>85403444
I agree they were well intentioned but good intentions doesn't make it okay to override someone's personal choices.
For example if the government shut down 4chan and banned all forms of shit posting we'd all be happier, healthier and more productive people but we'd all still be pretty pissed off about it

>>85403620
>Most of the changes you undertake in life aren't a matter of your personal decision making
I would argue that a great deal of the changes you make in your life are the result of personal decision making, regardless of whether you actively puzzled them and made an overt, conscious choice. You still made a decision, and it's a decision that you carry.
>If an accidental brain injury somehow turned a sociopath into a nice guy would you go, "not good enough he didn't change on his own."
The act of deciding something for one's self carries weight to it, it has value as the result of free will. If someone is forced to be a certain way, then they're not really a thinking organism, they're just a kind of automaton. They did not choose their actions, and they do not choose who they are. If someone is brainwashed into being nice, polite, and friendly, then they've been robbed of their free will and as such their actions no longer belong to them. Fry wasn't himself, he had no part in what the worms did to him, as such, those improvements were not his, they were simply being done to him. Leela didn't love Fry, she loved the worms. Had he chosen to change himself, it would have been a completely different story. But he didn't.

I remember watching that episode right when it first aired and wanting those little parasites more than anything.

Fuck I STILL want those parasites. Symbiotic mutualism FTW.

>>85403740
>I love what you've become.

This is all Leela's fault desu.

I can't say that Fry was in the wrong here. If the only reason my life got better was because I ate a sandwich, I'd feel like shit about myself too. That's not even cheating to get ahead, that's dumb luck.

>>85403832
>You still made a decision, and it's a decision that you carry.
Like how Fry mad the decision to eat a gas station egg sandwich?

>The act of deciding something for one's self carries weight to it, it has value as the result of free will.
>free will
>being real
Wew.

> Leela didn't love Fry, she loved the worms
No, she loved Fry. A Fry that wasn't an annoying dumbass.

>>85403816
The worms weren't doing anything like what you describe.

>>85403247
The door's that-a-way, /pol/.

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I think this whole episode was a jab at those numbnuts who ingest a Tapeworm to help them lose weight.

I mean, some people will do anything to be fit, but jesus christ. Did you really think having worms in your body was a good idea?

>>85402862
sociopaths are those who can't control their inner urges

psychopaths are those who understand their urges would see them landed in jail and act accordingly, either avoiding acting on those urges (the more common type) or acting them out in elaborate ways

contrary to popular belief, sociopaths are not raving lunatics who rampage through the streets, nor are psychopaths (or sociopaths) of above-average intelligence as a general rule (they tend to be of general intelligence except in areas where the skills they lack come into play)

the thing that separates a psychopath from a sociopath is a bad day; the thing that separates you the ordinary average person from a (violent) psychopath is a string of bad decisions and poorly understood concepts

to act violently does not make one a sociopath (but neither does a brain scan) any more than acting against your personal interests makes someone else a "wanton villain"

sociopathic behavior is more like, for example, bringing your personal beliefs about who is responsible for the state of the world/politics/whatever into every conversation without any real reason, simply because you cannot comprehend that it is not relevant and that you are wrong (and doing so in a way which ignored reasonable rebuttals, sought to shock and offend, etc) whereas a psychopath in the same situation would seek to insinuate that their own bugbears were to blame, not because of a genuine belief that they are in all instances blameworthy, but out of a desire to incriminate them

as ever the fine line between one and the other is easily crossed, but they're a far cry from people who just want to hurt you one time (who might be villains or might simply not understand that they'll hurt you), and it's worth learning the difference

psychopath, sociopath, and even villain are not terms you want to throw around lightly

>>85404022
> Did you really think having worms in your body was a good idea?
If they're purely beneficial, yes.

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>>85402862
>grey

>>85404070
According to who? Them?

>>85404091
According to observations by medical professionals. Or the professor.

>>85404036
>sociopaths are those who can't control their inner urges
psychopaths are those who understand their urges would see them landed in jail and act accordingly
Wait, what, I thought it was the other way around?

>>85404013
not really /pol/.

disney's pocahontas was hilariously inaccurate.
>In December 1609, Ratcliffe and 14 fellow colonists were invited to a gathering with the a tribe of Powhatan Indians. The Powhatans promised the starving colonists would be given corn, but it was a trap. The colonists were ambushed. Ratcliffe suffered a particular gruesome fate: Ratcliffe was tied to a stake in front of a fire. Women removed the skin from his face with mussel shells and tossed the pieces into the flame as he watched. Finally, he was burned at the stake.


that's not even getting into detail about how much of a scumbag john smith was.

>>85403989
Alright, say it was just you, from this day forth you are banned from any and all interaction with 4chan and similar sites. You will be better off by all objective measures but you have no choice in the matter. How do you feel about that?

It was a symbiotic relationship. Should we destroy all the digestive bacteria we have?

>>85404326
If we didn't need them? Yeah.

>>85404206
Me too, could it be TV lied to me?

>>85404290
>>85404290
Your analogy doesn't make any sense. The worms weren't limiting his actions in any way. In fact they were facilitating actions that he wanted to take anyway and do it better. He wanted to protect Leela but couldn't cause he was weak. He wanted to play the holophone but couldn't because he was stupid.
Its more like if I was given free access to wifi anywhere and allowed to browse 4chan as I like. Did I ask for it? No. Is it an improvement? Hell yeah.

>>85404206
sociopaths lack empathy and cannot see other people as equals, and therefore have no problems with doing horrible things.

psychopaths lack true emotions, but still understand that they exist. many psychopaths move on to be successful in jobs that require no hangups or guilt, like law or politics.

>>85403444
And not only healthier and stronger, but also basically immune to injury

>>85404267
Source? I've heard similar things happening the Jesuits who had a good relationship with local tribes until a group broke away from the main tribe

>>85402988
I really liked how Nibbler always looked out for Fry afterwards though. Hit a sentimental spot in my black heart.

The only good episode of Comedy Central Futurama was the one where Nibbler let Fry see his mom one last time. It is so dusty in my room goddamn. ;_;

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>>85404013

>>85404979
Not that anon, but it was relatively common knowledge John Smith was a shithead. That story about Pocahantus saving his life? He was caught 20 years later saying he was saved in Turkey by a local princess. No idea about Ratcliffe, however.

But yeah. Not the most historical movie out there.

>>85404267
Yeah, there's a reason they weren't viewed as a respectable peoples.

And it wasn't just because they were different.

There were tribes that were upright and civilized, but a lot of them were outright vile cultures that were as far from the noble, nature-harmonic savage as a marshmellow peep is from a pissed off rooster.

The silly thing is that Fry kicked out the worms, but he was fine with taking the Devil's hands. Same concept, different execution.

>>85405240
well i mean id rather have satans hands as my own than have worms in my asshole

>>85405240
the idea that fry really is a talented musician/composer but just has shitty hands is kind of ludicrous in and of itself

but it's a cartoon and the episode was funny so who cares

>>85405167
And then people have the gall to try and imply that they were all kind-hearted, noble people who lived with each other in peace when there is solid evidence that western tribes warred each other to extinction.

>>85405240
Different concept, same execution

He chose the hands. He didn't chose the worms. But both made Leela like him for something that wasn't actually him.

>>85405370
They were also prolific lumberjacks. Basically wiped out trees in North America in some places until the massive plague die-off bought them time to regrow.

>>85405371
>Different concept, same execution
Um no. Both the hands and the worms improved things he was inherently deficient at. Same concept.

>He didn't chose the worms
Actually he did after he found out what they were doing but changed his mind later.

>>85405432
That's the execution. But one thing he chose, and the other was thrust on him. Concept.

Adopting is not the same as choosing.

>>85404717
both lack empathy it's just a sociopath understands the concept of right and wrong where a psychopath doesn't.

>>85405467
Both understand the concept of right and wrong. They're not retarded.

>>85405456
You don't know what concept means.

>>85404717
>>85405467
>>85405498
They're both terms for antisocial personality disorder you fucking tards.

>>85405499
Neither do you, apparently.

>>85405370
Oh yeah, there's at least one mass grave in... wanna say Minnesota, that predates European Colonialism by a good margin, where an entire tribe was slaughtered down to the women and infant children.

Even during the westward expansion, they were driven off and the treaties broken because they would raid the homes of settlers and torture everyone they could get their hands on to death.

Precolonial Americas were basically Africa. Hell, most of South America still is.

>>85404013
>actual history is /pol/
What?

>>85405531
They're used interchangeably sometimes but just as often psychologists have made a distinction between the two.

>"Listen, this is going to be one hell of a bowel movement. Afterwards he'll be lucky if he has any bones left."
I legitimately laughed so hard at that line that I hurt my stomach. I don't know why, probably the visual image of Fry farting his skeleton through his ass. I'm so juvenile sometimes.

>>85402967

This. "I love what you've become" was such a horrible thing to say.

>>85405355
It's mostly just that he had everything already in his head, his hands lacked the dexterity to play well

I can sort of relate, my hands (especially my left) are generally pretty shitty. I'm definitely not a genius or even good composer

>>85405573
Didn't DMC abandon those terms in favour of Anti-Social Personality Disorder?

>>85405538
Just so were clear.
Concept; meaning a general abstract idea
Execution; how that idea is enacted practically.
So the concept we have linking both the worms and the devils hands is "improvement of Fry's deficiency". An abstract idea. And the execution of that of course being the worms and the devils hands.
Just so we're all clear here.

>>85402707
Neither. Fry was fine with what they were doing until he got that self-esteem blow.

If you have to ask, you've obviously never been in love.

>>85405570
/pol/ is always right anon

>>85404717
>>85405467
>>85405498
>>85405531
>>85405678
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

>>85405678
>DMC
? Do you mean the dsm? And if so then the DSM has dropped a whole lot of shit out of political reasons so be careful about those distinctions.

>>85405678
Sure, but that shit's constantly under revision and being revised. A lot of psychologists, including Robert Hare, who's the biggest name in the study of ASPD, make a distinction between sociopath and psychopath and are calling for the DMC to reclarify.

I don't totally remember the distinction but I think it had to do with a sociopath being born that way and a psychopath undergoing trauma, so a sociopath might become a CEO because he's a relatively normal guy who doesn't give a shit about others, where a psychopath will be a criminal or serial killer. It's like they both have the same issue but arrive at it in different ways, and behave in different ways.

>>85402993

But it wasn't earned improvement, and Fry knew it. It was a cheat, and Fry is too honest to accept being cheated into someone Leela loves. It's why he starts practicing the holophoner at the end.

Like he says, he wants Leela to love him for him, not for the worms or what the worms can do for him.

>>85405727
Is being in love mean engaging in self-sabotage to narcissistically subject object of my desire to test she couldn't pass by not being a person worth of her love?

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>>85403956

>No, she loved Fry. A Fry that wasn't an annoying dumbass.

Then she didn't love Fry.

>>85405702
Just so we're all clear here, you're being overly vague. The concept is first, Fry making a deal with the devil for his hands, and then Fry having a parasite.

I mean, if you're going to be that abstract, then the concept is just that Fry wants to fuck Leela and fails

>>85404013
go back to tumblr retard

>>85405749
Yeah, because a fucking magazine full of armchair pop-psychology is obviously the best place to get your information.

>>85405570
It always has been.

For people who cry about not wanting to be affected by any entity be it financial or ideological and strong independent neckbeards who need no help you guys are really eager to let yourself be molded into something (and someone) else by parasitic worms.

Fry was right.

>>85403956
>A Fry that wasn't an annoying dumbass.

That's the problem. Much of Fry's character is being a dumbass.

>>85405813
>vague
Using dictionary definitions is vague now?

>Fry making a deal with the devil for his hands, and then Fry having a parasite.
Neither of these things are abstract. You don't know what that word means either do you?

>>85405887
>Using dictionary definitions is vague now
I'm talking about your summary of the episodes retard

The dictionary definition of a concept is different from what a writer would call the concept of their narrative. Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

>>85405876
What is wrong with being made smarter, stronger and healthier?

How does it make sense to expect a woman to love an inferior version of you instead?

>>85405883
>>85405809
What difference does it make if Fry wasn't that person anymore? Might as well be upset that she didn't love him the way he was as a twelve year old (which is probably about the same). The only reason he should have had to change back is if he didn't personally like his new self but he only did it all for Leela.

>>85405955
>I'm talking about your summary of the episodes retard
I'm not talking about the episodes. I'm talking about the worms and the hands specifically.

>>85405876

I guess the issue is were the worms changing him into someone he wasn't, or just getting him to be the best possible Fry, the Fry he could be if he stopped being lazy and seriously committed to working out/practicing music?

>>85406013
>I guess the issue is were the worms changing him into someone he wasn't,
You're always changing into someone you weren't.

>>85405982

After his revelation with Leela he began to understand the difference between who he was and who he was becoming, and he made the choice to go back. It made a difference for him.

How is this difficult for you to understand?

>>85406006
And that's why you're wrong. You're trying to use terms a writer would use to break down the narrative and using them incorrectly. You're talking too abstract a view of things and not looking at them as character-driven stories.

>>85406044

Yes, gradually, through work/sacrifice/life experiences.

Fry had positive change HANDED to him and that's what he realized he didn't want. He starts practicing the holophoner at the end to try and give himself the chance to become the person Leela loves through work/sacrifice/experience.

>>85404013
g8b8m8

>>85406070
What the fuck are you talking about? "Concept" is a term only for writers? What? This whole thread is about the ethics (i guess) of improving yourself through artificial means in Futurama. That's all I'm talking about.

Fry, easily. The parasites made him an objectively better person in all regards. It was an incredible gift that he threw away because "hurrr not the REAL me". The action was selfish and short-sighted.

>>85405780
>>85405753
The DSM is a joke changing meanings as they seem fit.

>>85406138
What's wrong with being handed those things? he could work harder then he could ever before. He wasn't stupid anymore, he wasn't weak anymore he could skip initial phase that he could never make it through on his own and work harder then any other person could toward even greater greatness.

If someone is born genius, should they give themselves brain damage for the sake of hard work? And if somehow they become genius later, should they?

>>85405974
>>85406013
The entire concept of superiority in this context is idiotic. There is no such thing as a "superior" fry. Fry is the amalgamation of the strengths and weakness' the character displays on a daily basis. Reforming him on a cellular level turns him into someone else, let's call him Shake.

Shake is stronger, smarter and sexier than Fry, but he's not Fry. He's a completely new individual who has nothing else in common with Fry except his memories and genetics, which have both been superseded by the magical space worms. If Leela loves Shake then she doesn't love Fry. And if she won't love him then what is the point of ever turning into Shake? All Fry is doing is cuckolding himself.

Summa summarum wormfags are a bunch of cucks.

>>85406138
> work/sacrifice/life experiences.
What's inherently better about that?

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>>85406199
>Shake is stronger, smarter and sexier than Fry
You bet your sweet ass.

>>85402967
/thread

>>85406190
Yeah, the shit they pull is part of why psychology isn't taken seriously as a science.

>>85406221
>>85406138
>>85406192
This, I just do not understand anymore.

>>85406199
So Leela doesn't love Fry, and loves Shake. Fry could become Shake. Not just pretend to be Shake, he could BECOME Shake.

Are you really suggesting that Fry should degrade and then what? Give up on Leela? Revel in his entitlement for her love that, let's be honest, he does not deserve?

>>85406199
>He's a completely new individual who has nothing else in common with Fry except his memories and genetics
>Reforming him on a cellular level turns him into someone else
The same can be said of you and yourself 12 years ago. You're not the same person you were then. Hell even all over your cells have been replaced by now. Would you be upset cause your girlfriend wouldn't love the dickhead you were 12 years ago?

>>85406316
Has it ever been? Psychology should be considered a pseudo-science as it is beyond not accurate, and know the DSM all they care for is pandering to lobbies and agendas.

Reflexology should be a real science over psychology.

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>muh Theseus' ship

this thread is a riot

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>>85405842
And 4chans better?

>>85406364
>Psychology should be considered a pseudo-science
Well they still use the scientific method presumably. They're just so hilariously incompetent at it.

You can practically point out the NEETs in this thread.

Hint: any person saying it's okay to take a free ride handout

>>85406399
>>85406399
ebin

>>85406373
>Theseus' ship

Thanks for learning me something today, anon.

>>85406399
My education was paid for by my parents and partially by the government. Was it not OK either? Should toddler me have taught myself to type?

>>85406396
>Well they still use the scientific method presumably

Well, up until the whole "repeatable result" part.

>>85406364
Fuckers like Pavlov worked hard to try and make it more legitimate but everybody bitches and moans "muh feels, humans aren't animals, none of these concepts that apply to every other animal we know of don't apply to us".
>>85406396
Half (out my ass, yes) of all psychological studies aren't scientific because they simply cannot be repeated. Combine that with how hard they cave to social pressures at the cost of health it becomes hilarious to try and think of them as scientific.

>>85406423

There's one now!

>>85406399
How did a thread about space worms reach this post?

>>85406335
>>85406320
>>85406192
>>85406138
I once had a crush on a girl, but when I found out she was good at karate; it really made me think. That I was not worthy of her, unless I knew karate and was actually good at it. But by the time I would reach the level she has, she would be in a different higher level. So hence I felt I was not worthy of her and gave up.

>>85406457
You should have started boxing instead and blow her away within a year.

>>85406199
>Summa summarum wormfags are a bunch of cucks.
It seems my options are being a wormcuck or beign a nice guy waiting passively until woman I love decides "wtf I love him now"

Wormcuck it is then.

>>85406444

No, but if someone had just handed you the degree right after high school, do you think you'd be the person you are today, or do you think you'd be worse off for not working all those years to accomplish something?

>>85406452
Only when they feel like. I cringe when they justify homosexuality on humans when it is shown on animals lol. In ways, animals are different to humans true but conditioning does work on both.

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>>85403513
>Yes, but he didn't do it himself, so it's not really a matter of "self" improvement. He didn't choose to become smarter and stronger,
But he became smarter and stronger nonetheless. It's not like that prevents him from self-improving further, or at all. There's no downside to this, so why not go for it?

>>85406495

That's not even remotely close to what Fry chose.

This thread is an awful reminder why the Internet was a mistake.

>>85406511
If someone beamed all those knowledge in my head overnight, I see no difference.

>>85402862
>SOCIOPATHY
>INHERENTLY "WRONG" OR "EVIL"

SPOOKY POST

>>85406535
What did he chose?

>>85406488
I am doing boxing but just as cardio. But what do you mean to blow her away?

>>85406444
This. My family rather raised me to study hard than work out when I was a kid. Now I struggle at being athletic in my early 30s. Just as they say on psychology, it seems inaccurate as somethings work on others that do not work on me. Maybe training in competitive boxing would help me better but don't have the stamina for it, but cardio boxing while fun may not work.

Fry.
They were making him better sure but self improvement means nothing when it's not under your own volition and will. He was basically using stimulants to fix his imperfections rather then trying to conquer them on his own. He wanted to win Leela's heart by proving that HE was good enough, not what was injected inside him.

Justifying the worms to become a better person and win Leela's heart is sort of like justifying steroid use to win a sport. yeah it's cool but there's an emptiness inside knowing that what people see as the best version of you isn't you at all.

>>85406636
>But what do you mean to blow her away?
Beat her up. Earn her respect.

Only symbiotes are barely tolerable. Harbor no parasite.

>>85406646

This.

Too bad everyone in this thread is so fixated on the idea that the steroids have no repercussions rather than the fact that it's more about the integrity of the person that you are.

>>85406535
Now it is not. I am sick and tired about the forced morality of training hard and suffering for all of your life to get you nowhere, when it might help to use the right shortcuts or tools to get the job done. There are those who struggle all their life and get nothing, while some who do not even struggle and get everything. Oh and viceversa to these, but how to know where you fit in this.

>>85406630

He didn't choose "passively waiting" he chose "actively trying".

Which is still miles ahead of "have it all handed to you".

>>85406695
>it's more about the integrity of the person that you are.
That's more in the interest of fairness in competition. People who just want to can take steroids as the like.

>>85406671
Could a year of boxing beat 22 years of karate? I like how you think but it would had been practical and legal? Haven't seen the bitch in 6 years.

>>85402707
It's his body, he can do whatever the damn he pleases with it. Worms can fuck off.

>>85406646
>>85406695
That's fucking retarded. So people who take medicine for a mental illness "aren't being themselves"? What about cripples who use a wheelchair instead of flopping around on the floor like god intended? Fuck you.

Steroids are banned from sports because it would be unfair to force people to use health-damaging steroids to compete, not because it's inherently immoral to use technology to improve your life.

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>>85406712

>forced morality

You niggers need to learn the value of hard work.

Fuck this thread, I'm going to the gym.

>>85406739
>>85406695
Watched Bigger Stronger Faster, not interested in steroids just being slim, but so far it has not worked. I do notice it may work if I do not eat but my family does not let me.

>>85406747
>22 years of karate
Oh geez. Maybe 5 or 6 years of boxing then.

>>85406824
>the value of hard work.
Explain it to me.

>>85406824
But that is the case, if hard work isn't working maybe something else is needed. Still I wish you well at the gym. If it is actually working out for you then godbless.

>>85406646
I was lucky to born with sight, hearing, legs and mostly working brain. Some people do not and they work hard just to get where I was lucky to start. Should I renounce all this privilege?

>>85406850
Don't NOT eat you idiot, that'l slow everything down.

Eat less. Portion control. Talk to your family about your fitness goals, see a doctor and work out a reasonable plan.

>>85406861
See... then why bother. But like I said, haven't seen her in 6 years. I wish I could go back in time and change for my family to raise me to be an athlete than a nerd.

>>85406890

Should Dark Souls have an 'easy' difficulty setting?

>>85402862
well if you only ever hear one side of the story why would you even be forming an opinion anyway?

>>85406932
Videogames are entertainment. Real life is life.

How about you migrate to Somalia for some extra challenge in your life?

>>85406815
Using a stimulant to help with a disability and using a stimulant to cheat is two different things.

Fry isn't disabled or held back in any way (okay maybe intelligence wise there's something up) he's just lazy.

>>85406824
>You niggers need to learn the value of hard work.
But with worms one could work harder then ever before?

>>85406646
>yeah it's cool but there's an emptiness inside knowing that what people see as the best version of you isn't you at all
People use alcohol to relax, drink coffee to stay awake, and take anti-depressants to get out of bed in the morning.

The argument could be made that the effect of the worms were much deeper than any of the listed examples, but the concept is the same. People utilize a variety of shit to fundamentally alter their appearance, their personality, and their mindset everyday.

>>85406984
Who's Fry cheating? Is there some governing body promising fairness in life? If so then I'd like to have a word with them

>>85406824
>>85406891
Reminds me of an episode of Family Matters when Urkel had to compete in a Basketball game. He did not had chances so he built a jetpack and it made him win the game. Now that is cheating as he should had done it by himself, but everyone was in awe for the jetpack working. In a way, tye message of the episode was to be ok with whom you are and Urkel rather used his smarts and work hard to make a jetpack to win, but I still feel he cheated and remains an unhealthy individual.

>>85407027
Leela.
She fell in love with him because of the worms abilities, not his.

>>85407027

Himself, and his values, his integrity, his morality. He's too honest to pick the cheap, easy way to Leela's heart.

>>85406929
I am eating less and skip portions but it is not working.

>>85406932
Yeah.

>>85406984
And the worms made him not lazy. They made him a better person than he ever would be on his own accord.

If a computer has a malfunctioning CPU, you'd replace the CPU, not say that this is the way the computer is forever.

>>85407057
How is that cheating her. That seems to be to her benefit.

>>85407078
>his values, his integrity, his morality
Isn't the reason for this thread to argue about those things. I understand why his character gave them up but it was stupid to.

>>85406145
>>85406070
Keep going

>>85407078
>>85407136
>Himself, and his values, his integrity, his morality
Also btw Fry isn't some upstanding saint and I don't know why you think this. He gave up the worse because he was insecure.

>>85407136
>That seems to be to her benefit.
But not Fry. Fry wants her to love him for him. His own abilities and efforts.

The worms could've controlled any other schmuck and she would've reacted the same way, because it was the worms abilities that impressed Leela not Fry.

>>85407078
>Fry's values, integrity, and morality
This is the same guy that made a literal deal with the robot devil to improve himself with zero hard work because he was limited physically.

>>85406989
>>85406965
It is what I am saying, real life is different.

What if something helps you to actually workout with noticeable results than working hard but going nowhere as it is not clear what you actually need?

>>85403927
At least with cheating you put in SOME effort to cheat.

>>85407078
What morality? Since when did Original Flavour Fry has hard work fetish? He was lazy piece of shit, slacking on work, partying and mooching off people.

Was his sense of right and wrong compromised in any way? Did worms make him callous, cruel, greedy or something? No, he's the same fry, but more resourceful.

For fuck sake, we are on /co/, board half-dedicated to admiring people who were, by luck, given empowerment by outside force so they could finally act on their own inner goodness in a meaningful way. Should Peter Parker work on removing spider bite effect from his body because it's not fair? Or should he do his best to use the good hand he was dealt for betterment of all.

>>85403927
>>85407230
>win the lottery
>"why am I such an asshole"

>>85407190
That time Fry was willing and the act would have repercussions. The worms were an accident and he had no idea it would happen.

>>85407190

This is also a fictional comedy cartoon series.

And yes, I don't like the opera episode in the same way I don't like them going back and retconning Seymour's death. I feel it undercuts what they were going for earlier in the show.

>>85403247
>he dindu nuffin
>he a good boy

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>>85407190
>This is the same guy that made a literal deal with the robot devil to improve himself with zero hard work because he was limited physically.
Good point.
I guess the writer's didn't really think that one through.

Still doesn't make that or the worms any less wrong though.

>>85407196
>What if something helps you to actually workout with noticeable results than working hard but going nowhere as it is not clear what you actually need?
...What?

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>>85404013
>>85405570

>>85407286
Fry is a sentimental idiot.

The contradiction in the two events can be explained away adequately by that fact.

>>85407269
>>85407286

>>85407173

If taking supplements to enhance your personality isn't such a big deal, then it begs the question, why aren't you on your autism meds, anons?

>>85407018
I feel like Fry's example is too extreme to really compare to drinking or taking pills. In fact if you need any of that to function, you have some form of disorder. Not that someone should leave you for that.
Though yeah Fry was stupid to reject something that really improved his life, especially for a woman who heavily implied she would never give him the time of day without the Worms.

>>85407261
So is $100 you find on the street worth less than a $100 you won playing roulette?

>>85407341
I used to be on antipsychotics, but they gave me shakes. So I traded the meds for ability to stand upright.

>>85407241
>>85407230
>>85407196
Sort of off topic but I hate Lady Shiva and her daughter. They work their asses hard but are good at it, while others work harder and get nowhere to their levels.

Then they live in an universe where many get their powers out of destiny or luck yet they are pick human and they are hardly used around metas just to not make Shiva look bad. Cassandra has been around metas but she oddly beats them by stupid ways, like she is peak human but is faster than light somehow. Meanwhile Bats and Green Arrow can be around gods but can't handle Shiva.

>>85407341
If there are meds that could give me good social skills I'll take them. I tried tylenol but it didn't really work and I'm scared of ODing

>>85407295
Precisely. What? How to even know.

>>85407433
ESL? Or are you fucking with me?

>>85407366
Exactly.

>>85407562
Because...?

>>85407341
What about you?

>>85403247
To be fair, "Savages" is one of my favorite Disney songs.

Don't forget that the real Pocahontas was only about 12-15, not stacked like a 28 year-old swimsuit model.

But hey, it's Disney.

>>85407606
Nort him but of course they're literally worth the same. But you'll feel better winning it than if you just found it

>>85407606
You struggled to get the lottery $100. The ones on the street are by luck and that is bad.

>>85407632
And so John Smith was a pedo.

>>85407632
>was only about 12-15
That was the "swimsuit model" standard of beauty most important trait back then, anon.

>>85407241
>>85407401
It is like handicapped Barbara, they live in an universe where they could easily fixed that.

Without their powers Peter and the Flashes would have trouble training and maybe get nowhere in life. But their powers it is easier to train and actually know in what to train.

>>85407052
Because being smart and helping humanity in tech and science is looked down, while the athlete is seen as an ultimate human being.

>>85403052
He ate the sandwich, then he improved, self improvement.

>>85407829
That's sort of changed now.

>>85406861
>>85406931
Also, she said she loved me for whom I was, weak and pathetic and that she would always defend me and that is when I felt something wrong. Sort of why I compare this to the Leela situation. So if I was strong and competent she would not love me?

>>85406636
the average boxer could beat even the most talented martial artist

>>85407877
No it isn't.

>>85407665
>The ones on the street are by luck and that is bad
Roulette, as a game, is the essence of luck though. There's no skill or struggle, there's just the chance the little white ball falls in whatever category of pocket the gambler picked.

>>85407877
No it hasn't.

>>85407908
Bitch probably had a fetish for weak pathetic guys. You did good in dumping her.

>>85407947
You still earned instead of life just handling it to you.

>>85407665
Isn't roulette a game of luck? This is stupid.

>>85407939
>>85407961
I remember most of the athletes in my high school being in IB and having AP classes.

They were also fairly nice guys.

>>85407982
>>85407908
>not getting femdomed
>not letting her build you from the ground up til you were buff and strong
Weak and pathetic the lot of you.

>>85408011
It's the most random game there is. There's absolutely no way to actually manipulate your odds. It will always be fair.

Although there might be a way to turn your odds absolutely abysmal by doubling your bet every time you lose, but I got confused calculating the payout.

>>85407908
Or maybe she loved you because because of your attitude,personality, or morals, who you actually are, and didn't care about if you weren't physically strong like she was.

Have you ever thought of that you vain piece of shit?

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>>85408011
Anti-wormfags are stupid

>>85408007
>earned it
Winning a hand of Texas Hold Em is fair game in terms of having "earned" your money, considering poker takes skill and is a competition.

Roulette is the definition of money being handed to you for no particular reason other than making a complete guess and wagering money. The guess is completely random, if we're talking about picking a single number, and wagering money takes no skill beyond having money in the first place.

>>85403740
In this particular case, they aren't even parasites. Because of the benefits they provide to the body, the relationship becomes symbiotic. Can anyone here honestly say they wouldn't want a case of these particular worms in exchange for needing a little more food each day?

>>85408179
>Can anyone here honestly say they wouldn't want a case of these particular worms in exchange for needing a little more food each day?
Maybe somewhere in Ethiopia.

>>85408059
>Or maybe she loved you because because of your attitude,personality, or morals, who you actually are, and didn't care about if you weren't physically strong like she was.

>Have you ever thought of that you vain piece of shit?

If the guy is a piece of shit, why even bother saying the things from before? How are you not a piece of shit?

Would you like to be in such abusive relationship?

>>85406932
Being Fry without worms is not playing a game on hard. It's playing a game with shitty controls, bad fps and periodical crashes that erase progress. Who would want a game like this?

>>85408214
But even in that case you are now much more likely to find and take food for yourself. This relationship is so damn symbiotic that it might as well be evolutionary. Worms improve host in everyway such that host can more easily survive and obtain food thus allowing the worms to improve host so on and so forth.

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>>85408250
>shitty controls, bad fps and periodical crashes
>Who would want a game like this?
FromSoftware fans

>>85407358
This is where the morality of the whole scenario gets murky. the fact that Leela didn't care about Fry until he got the worms meant the relationship was unhealthy. Morally speaking, his very goal was not worth his time.

But disregarding that, he wanted her to love him on certain terms, so I don't think him giving up the worms was "wrong"

That he was a self-loathing schlub who picked the dumb/hard route to wooing Leela wasn't exactly out of character; wasn't the holophonor the hardest instrument to learn, like, ever?

It's like a dude being so smitten with some bitch that he says "I'm going to become an acclaimed nuclear physicist for you!" But that was Fry's mindset

The worms were great. Fry regretted his decision to get rid of them at the end of the episode after Leela left.

>>85403247
Ratcliffe was an idiot who worked the pilgrims to starvation because he ordered them to dig for gold and LITERALLY build him a palace rather than plant food or hunt.

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>>85402707
>super smart
>super strength
>regeneration

I mean, I guess there could be some kind of war inside the body or somebody takes control of him. I dunno.

>>85407684
Were John and her ever actually "romantically involved"? I thought that was just made up for Disney.

>>85408545
Weren't they married? Those were different times.

>>85408577
No that's John Rolfe who married her years later when she was around 18.

>>85408059
>>85408039
And you haven't answered. Would you like to be in such relationship?

>>85408338
If that is bad, then how come the scenario from >>85408224
>>85408059
Is OK?

>>85408059
Well then, I am proud of being a piece of shit.

>>85408778
In his scenario it sounds like Fry is the one being unrealistic. They're not really contradictory, it's like if the second scenario wanted security that they'd still be love even if they were still the piece of shit they were before they changed.

>>85402862
Fair share, yes, I guess you could say that. Not a sweeping majority, so a grey moral world is still the case at least a lot of the time, what's your point?

>>85406694
But the worms were symbiotic because they were giving something beneficial to fry in exchange for a place to live.

>>85409262
Because the implication is nobody is wrong when there are totally people who are just assholes.

>>85407686
I think it's because of how much more short lived people were, and child bearing being more dangerous or unlikely after a certain point, not so much about hebephilia being the big trend, but yeah.

>>85408956
>>85408059
But how come you two are not pieces of shit and are superior human beings?

>>85408956
But how is karate bitch not selfish while Leela is?

>>85409547
What are you talking about?

>>85409602
You have no idea how things were in this real case, yet you bash at whatever chance you have to call betaanon a piece of shit. How are you 2 free of sin?

>>85409596
She's not.
Pathetic Bro is being unrealistic because his idea of a him that's wholly separate from his personality, physicality, and actions.

>>85408338
> "I'm going to become an acclaimed nuclear physicist for you!"

Except women do not like nuclear physicists.

Leela.

Fry wanted to test a point, and the worms were just doing what they normally do. Leela was 100% in the wrong

>>85409755
They do when they start bringing home nuclear physicist money.

>>85409714
If you read the case, you can see she had some interests. You are being easy on her for being a real grill when she pretty much is a golddigger.

>>85409823
They do not win that much, also they fuck with alphas in secret.

>>85409759
The only thing she did wrong was word it as boldly as she did.
There's nothing wrong with being attracted to a man because he's upped all his stats not just physically but mentally and emotionally. Fry wouldn't be wrong to not want to be with her because that fact doesn't sit right with him either.

>>85409755
So becoming one for a broad would be a complete waste of time and effort

Much like Fry's pursuit of the sewer mutant Cyclopean bitch

It all adds up, anon

>>85409867
Six figures is still six figures anon.

>>85410019
the difference is the amount of time and effort involved. Becoming a nuclear physicist take a minimum of 8 years and a shitload of money.

Becoming a host for the Worm of Monumental Improvement required 25 cents and the time it took to eat the sandwich.

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The aliens were in the wrong for one simple reason. Had they been left there they would have corrected the brain defect that rendered Fry immune to the Giant Brains. Humanity and all of existence would have ended and everyone would be dead.

>>85409867
I dare you to find me a woman that doesn't consider financial independence as a turn on.

>>85410174
There was only a 5 episode gap between the two events, plus Fry's lack of a delta brainwave was something cause by a chronological paradox, something the worms wouldn't have been able to fix.

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>>85410261
The "chronological paradox" wasn't the cause of the brain defect. It was doing the nasty in the pasty with his genetic grandmother.

And let's be clear, they were able to fix everything else about him. They even made him super smart. You don't think that they couldn't fix the genetic defect being your own grandfather caused?

>>85409714
>>85408059
>>85408039
>>85407908
>>85407982
You are being too hard on Anon. I myself workout in a dojo and can very much confirm what he says.

Female martial artists, who train hard for competitive levels do not want a martial artist male partner or an athletic one as they are narcissitic and want to be the center of attention.

If they are next to some one who is their equal or superior; of course they will lose that attention and rather look for beta males in order to not lose it. Sort of like making an ugly girl pretty by placing her next to an uglier girl.

There is also the chance these women are actually lesbians but look for beta male partners in order to not create social uproar (weird as now homosexuality is widely accepted), or to get financial sources.

So no, betaanon did the right thing in dumping her. As such relationship would be a poisonous one.

>>85409947
You even say Leela did wrong by outright saying it as it is, karate bitch did the same and trust me I see this all the time.

>>85410125
I dunno, the worms drew Leela to Fry and that was about it. Sure, he could regenerate wounds, but he was still a delivery boy at some POS job, and his best friend was still a sociopathic alcoholic android

Meanwhile, becoming a physicist purely for some chick MIGHT not get you laid, but it would improve your quality of life

more importantly, Leela is worst girl; 25¢ for her love is highway robbery

>>85410499
Depends on what's to be fixed.
Fry had a working brain before, they just gave it a tune up. We so no reason to believe they could or had any desire to give him a brain that produced that wave.

>>85410717
But you would be unhealthy compared to a athlete.

>>85408039
>>not letting her build you from the ground up til you were buff and strong

I am sorry but you are the one who is being unrealistic. It would not work that way as they are in a relationship, in order for it to actually work; the trainer has to be in a mentor role and have zero romantic realtionship.

Closest thing in fiction I have seen is that Yu Yu Hakusho anime where while Genkai is female, she is way older than Yusuke and of course nothing romantic can come out of it, much less sexual.

>>85410019
Reminds me of that movie Semper Fi. Bitch was not worth it.

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Fry said it himself in the episode: He didn't know if Leela loved him, or if he loved the parasites inside of him.

When someone gets a Bachelor's in Ancient Egyptian Algebra by studying and gets ripped by going to the gym, then they're praised because of the patience, dedication and determination it takes to keep at those things until they achieve their goal. Whereas any goob regardless of how much of an impatient and lazy prick they are can swallow a 'become very smart and also STRONK' pill.

Why do you think people who live off neetbux are considered the scum of society and worse than minimum-wage workers?

>>85410125
It is easier to became a nuclear physicist than a martial artist.

>>85402707
Fry.

>>85402846
>parasites have a right to exist and need a host
Fuck that. Parasites literally do not deserve to live. Things which infest dead carcasses like maggots are understandable, but parasites which feed on living hosts and kill them instead of working symbiotically have no right to life.

>>85408059
You have yet to give a reply.

>>85403024
That's
My
FETISH

>>85408059
And how are you not a piece of shit?

>>85411425
>parasites which feed on living hosts and kill them instead of working symbiotically

Wasn't that exactly what they were doing? I don't recall them doing anything bad to him.

>>85411425

Fry's parasites were 100% without a doubt a benefit to him lmao at your irrelevant retard post

>>85408059
Strong words for a beta fag

>>85411090
NEETbucks are also allegedly leeching off others.
So people take an affront to Welfare recipients not just because they're poor fags but because the idea they're living on THEIR dime.
I mean nobody would care if they were living off a large inheritance. Most people would probably be jelly, but the people who think they're scum for being lucky to be born rich would be very few.
Unless they're complete and utter tools, but when someones a complete and utter tool you tend to find little ways to hate EVERYTHING about them.

But ultimately people are having a hard time buying into Fry's logic that a smarter stronger him that can eloquently put his feelings into words doesn't count as him. It helps less that Fry didn't really seem to try very hard to make himself a better person afterwards sans maybe practice the Holophone, and even then he later cheats at that by getting his hands from the Devil.
Though that's an issue with treating a episodic comedy show like it's supposed to have an actual plot.

>>85403816
>For example if the government shut down 4chan and banned all forms of shit posting we'd all be happier, healthier and more productive people

Yeah, just like banning drugs stops people from being junkies, and prohibition stops people from getting drunk.

>>85409714
No, the one being unrealistic is you.

>>85411425
>parasites which feed on living hosts and KILL THEM
This is generally not how parasites work. A parasite that kills its host is extremely unfit, and would be driven to extinction quickly. A parasite is simply any organism that enters a foreign body and lives in a relationship that does not benefit the host. What you're thinking of are parasitoids, who CAN afford to kill their host.

>>85408059
Reifag.

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>>85405456
>>85405538
>>85405813
>>85405955
>>85406070
Just got here. Holy shit, you're an idiot!

>Ctrl-F
>"self-determination"
>0 of 0
>Ctrl-F
>"bodily sovereignty"
>0 of 0

Seriously niggas? Step it up. Fry is a fucking idiot for throwing out the worms, but being an idiot != being morally wrong.

>>85408059
>>85408039
>Samefag

>>85407982
Sounds reasonable.

>>85409435
my point being that she had to be re-adapted to fit contemporary perceptions.

>>85408059
Si un dia averiguo quien eres, juro por Dios te mato.