Can we have a Joker thread? Specifically to post examples of

>>85245105
was it ever explained why he had his face cut off, just to staple it back on?

>>85245477
To make mom freak.

>>85245477
It was the only way to create the degree of edge psychologically stunted manchildes demand in Joker

>>85245105
Meme magic.

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Batman experienced power creep

Joker, as Batman's nemesis, was buffed to compensate

Now the Joker, who was once just a fairly clever and hard to predict highly theatrical criminal. is a cross between Hannibal Lecter and an unstoppable slasher movie monster

It's real dumb!

>>85245630
This,Joker problem is the same as the mutants. Everybody hate the mutants, it would make sense in a world where they are the only powered being but in the MCU you have a shiton of other super powered guys that people like, so the hate toward the mutants stop making sense. Same for the Joker, a clown themed psychopath could be really dangerous in a universe where Batman had to deal with only his traditionnal rogue gallery, but in a world where Batman can deal with guy like Darkseid, and you have guy like the Flash and Superman running around, a simple madman without any other powere being able to be a top threat stop making sense and so they have to make him a semi-mythical being.

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>>85245932
Thus Batman need to stay contained in his own story's universe. He doesn't fit, and when you try to make him fit, he brings everything and everyone down. If I wrote for DC, he would always get blitz by powerful meta beings beyond his level. It don't matter how fast you can think up a plan, when your opponent can run up and hit in a shorter time span and splat your body against the wall.

Anybody got the pages where Batman tells the Spectre to go fuck himself for wanting to kill the Jokester, and that even the Spectre, as the real true wrath of old testament capital-g GOD doesn't have the right to take the Jokester's life?

>>85245932
>>85246135
>MCU
Fuck off moviefag, you don't know what you're talking about

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>>85245105
Besides the buff that batman received, Joker only really dangerous to other heroes/villains if the disregard him as a non threat or joke. In most cases he either does something to incapacitate or get away from his enemy. Other than that theres no real reason why Joker should defeat the entire Justice League like in Endgame (god that was dumb). Short answer I guess is like Batman, prep time

>>85246189
he's right though
God has no right to kill anyone

>>85245630
>Batman experienced power creep
>Joker, as Batman's nemesis, was buffed to compensate
That's basically it. The nemesis must always keep up with the hero, or he would stop being the nemesis. The same reason Lex Luthor became richer and smarter as Superman became more powerful.

>>85246231
I talking comics anon. If you put Batman in a story of being that can easily smash the planet, you will have to nerf the shit out of them so Batman can stand a chance. That is not good storytelling. And don't be fooled by my Kira pic, anime pulls this shit too.

So what ARE Joker's abilities? Is he an expert hand to hand combatant? Does he poses genius level intellect? Or is he just really crazy and apparently an analog to the devil or some shit (thanks, Synder)

>>85246473
no no, the DEVIL came from the SKY

>>85246531
go to be, Lex

>>85245630
what's even worse is we've gotten to the point where not even batgod can stop joker

joker literally always has to "win" now even when he loses

>>85246473
Joker does have some level of hand to hand, nothing really trained, but he knows how to fight dirty. And I would argue he does possess some high intelligence given the gadgets, toxins, and strategies he creates. Hes also immune to toxins

>>85246473
I liked how Hamill said he thought of him for his version. He's a prefomance artist who doesn't understand why other people don't appreciate his genius.

>>85245630
>who was once just a fairly clever

He died 2 times in his first 4 appareances.

So no, fuck you.


This thread is just another BwAAa bwaaaa i don't like batman thread.
>>85246473
Read comics.

>>85246473
I have read he is good with a knife. I would compair him to Aaron from Titus Andronicus, maybe Iago- there is something devil like about him.

>>85246298
God has the right to destroy the entirety of creation. His creation, his rules.

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>>85245105

Joker thread?

>>85245105
Fuck you, I liked it.
>>85245477
To thematically oppose the mask of Batman, remember that he is literally wearing his own face. The idea that there's something horrible lurking beneath the thin veneer of his persona makes him scary.>>85245105

Snyder also wanted to deviate from the funny mob-boss and wanted to make the Joker feel threatening to give a horror film vibe when the joker convinces everyone he's the pale-man.

>>85248766
I don't consider Synder's Joker as canon. Because it was so shit

>>85246715

>He died 2 times in his first 4 appareances.

And Batman used guns and was a complete, blatant rip-off of The Shadow, what of it?

Do you actually think that spouting comic book trivia that you KNOW isn't remotely relevant to the current discussion makes you clever?

The Golden Age is not and will never be relevant to any discussion of contemporary comics, stop pretending that knowing basic facts about them makes you superior to anyone else.

>>85248324

>"Parents have the right to murder their children. Their creations, their rules"
t. Literally You.

>>85246473
-experienced hand to hand fighter (he's never had any formal training)
-stupidly high pain tolerance
-expert knowledge in chemical engineering
-modest basic engineering knowledge

that's about the gist of it

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>>85245105
Am I the only one who thinks the Joker isn't really insane? He has all these crazy elaborate plans, plus he's a master manipulator. Sure, he may have some kind of personality disorder, but I really doubt he would be considered legally insane in most places, as he seems to be in total control of his faculties, he just chooses not to act in moral ways. I know some of this is due to him having multiple writers, but he acts more like a psychopath who is faking insanity than a person who is actually insane.

>>85246473
Reasonably clever
Master manipulator
Apparently a chemical engineer?
Higher than average skills in hand-to-hand, though not on par with the real martial arts heavyweights

>>85246257
>Joker only really dangerous to other heroes/villains if the disregard him as a non threat or joke
This. As famous as he is, and as great of a foil for batman as he happens to be, the Joker is still largely a street level villain. Yes there are a few exceptions, but by and large his plans don't affect the world as a whole, or even nations.

>>85248988
Holy shit moralfag can you get Batfaggot's dick out of your mouth before you spout your bullshit?

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>>85249468
>what is irony

>>85249166
>Am I the only one who thinks the Joker isn't really insane?

Probably. Canon bends over backwards to portray that Joker's insane and so completely incapable of being cognizant of morality that no one and nothing has the right to judge the Joker or punish him for his actions, which aren't crimes, because the Joker's so mentally damaged he cannot understand that he's acting in a morally incorrect way.

Personally, I think that puts the Joker on the level of a rabid dog that should be destroyed for the public good, but I guess I'm weird.

>>85245105
>>85245477

did dc ever show his face??? without the 'joker' face after he cut it?

>>85248990
He's also a ridiculously quick study when it comes to magic, though he didn't go out of his way to pursue it and obviously no magical villain anywhere ever would take on the Joker as an apprentice.
It wouldn't be completely unthinkable for him to simply have superhuman luck as a consequence of his madness.

>>85249166
I think its quite clear that this is true. Only morons think he is "le so randumb crazy man!" He knows exactly what he's doing and the only illness he has is being a psychopath.

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>>85249509
>>85249652
>>85249166
See, that's the thing that confuses me. Gotham is in the US, so most of the crimes the joker commits would be tried in a US federal court. On the federal level, psychopathy and sociopathy (and different degrees of antisocial personality disorder) are specifically mentioned in the law as NOT being applicable to the insanity defense. This is to prevent situations exactly like what happens with the joker: they don't want a psychopath being sent to rehab only to get out and immediately convince a crime, because you really can't rehabilitate someone with antisocial personality disorder.

US law has rules SPECIFICALLY to prevent situations like what's going on with the joker. DC canon breaks from reality when it comes to handling mental problems in the law.

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>>85245105
>Specifically to post examples of why he is consider so dangerous?

That one time he took control of the entire justice league except for batman.

>>85249684
Yes but this is a comic.

>>85245630
That was mostly just Snyder though.

I mean I guess you can say Morrison too but Morrison makes every character fucking weird.

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>>85249735
You are the worst kind of geek. . .

You're like one of those people who sees people arguing about whether or not superman breaks the first law of thermodynamics, and you jump in and say, "It's just a comic!"

Nigga, WE KNOW it's a comic, that doesn't mean we can't talk about it and analyze it with real world logic.

If you don't like arguing about this shit, why are you even here?

>>85249716
Eh. He'd be more dangerous if he took control of the Bat to fight the entire league.

>>85249816
>being this much of a fanboy
You do realize in a fair standup fight batman would get horribly murdered by any other member of the current justice league, right?

>>85248818

>Snyder also wanted to deviate from the funny mob-boss and wanted to make the Joker feel threatening to give a horror film vibe

But it had the opposite effect. It just came across as a bit silly and rip-offy.

>>85249716
I thought Superman don't need air, so how can a gas effect him if he don't have to breathe?

>>85248766

Few people Joker-wank like Snyder.

>>85249735

People can't use that to excuse everything. A comic still has to have some sort of sensical narrative logic.

It's supposed to be a mirror of our world, with superheroes.

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>>85249865
Not all gaseous poisons need to be inhaled. Many will affect you from contact with the skin.

Also let's be real here, superman's mere existence totally FUCKS thermodynamics and physics in general, so let's not pretend everything about him makes sense.

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>>85249806
THIS. THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
REEEEEEEEEEEEE
There's always that one guy...

>>85249848
>in a fair standup fight

If the joker took control of batman he could use him to assinate the JL members. I don't think he would confront them in a "fair standup fight"

>>85250023
Bullshit. Joker venom, even when controlling people, drives them berzerk, it doesn't make them set up long and intricate plans with months of prep work and careful planning.

In reality if joker gassed batman he'd go nuts, attack the league, superman or wonderwoman would easily restrain him, and Superman or Cyborg would synthesize a cure.

>>85250023
>use him to assinate the JL members
thats not how joker's poison works
at least read the comics before commenting

>>85249972
Superman literally downed neurotoxin as a teen and came out of it feeling a bit tipsy for a while. Before punching Deathstroke into the ocean.

I somehow don't think Joker's poison is going to cut it on a full-grown man.

I really like the Joker fight in Arkham City where he's a really bad brawler but cheats like a motherfucker.

I'd say he's dangerous because he's a master manipulator. Like he's the one guy who speaks the language of all the other crazy dangerous guys and can get them to work together long enough to screw people over. Case in point he's convinced Batman, whose sanity is already questionable, that he's worth redemption despite having a body count higher than 9/11.

>>85250176
Yes, and the energy potential of his body at any given time should render chemistry and physics as we know it utterly moot. When you have enough energy to bust a planet stuffed into two hundred pounds of human shaped meat, that somehow got all that energy by absorbing light on the tiny surface area of his skin.

>>85250085
>>85250106
Lol please explain to me how the jokers gas effects a victoms central and peripheral nervous system? Is it an agonist, antagoinst or both? What neurotransmitters does it act on? How does it interact with the neuromuscular junction? Without knowing the answer to these questions I dont think you can make bold statements saying he can't make a gas to control people more finely.

>>85250106
The poison shouldnt have worked on superman and it did so I'd say anything is possible

>>85250359
>they called me out?
>better toss out some biochem vocab study words, that'll show them!

If you've read the comics, you've seen what it does. It makes you laugh, it makes you go berserk, and it makes you die. I don't need to know exactly how it works to know what it does. I don't know exactly how Advil works, but I know it won't make my fucking skin boil off.

>>85250380
That makes literally no sense.
Okay, assumptions:
Joker venom will drive humans mad.
Joker venom will do nothing to Kryptonians
---
Observations from trial:
Joker venom drives humans mad
Joker venom drives Kryptonians mad
---
Therefore you conclude that Joker venom might sometimes NOT drive a human mad, but instead specifically control their actions?

>>85250546
All I'm saying is that the the neurotoxin should have had no effect on superman because of his bodies physiology. It was sloppy story telling. Defend it however you want, I dont really care.

>>85248988
Parents didn't create that life, they just brought two pieces together that already existed as life

>>85250633
>defend it how you want
>I don't care
>damage control
I'm not defending it or saying it was good storytelling, I'm just saying that your conclusion that joker venom could be used to control batman can't be defended by saying superman was affected. YOU are the one making the outlandish claim here. Just because the result doesn't make sense to us doesn't mean you can just make shit up to fill in the answer.

>>85250710
I was arguing two different points and you somehow melted them together into one and it makes no sense.

>>85248955
I'm superior to a pleb that bitch about the joker not knowing he was never just a normal clown.

>>85248766

I liked the premise of the entire arc, opening up with Batman against the Justice league fighting in the streets in these huge epic battles, only to end in a dark dank cave with two men covered in each others blood, it felt personal and was a really nice round up of things.

However I think it was poorly executed and it felt off.

>>85250650

1. Eggs and sperm do not fit any functional definition of the word "Life"
2. Even if they did, the parents still created those pieces and thus they stilled created the child, they just created two halves of it and later stuck them together.
3. If the only definition of "create" you will accept is "Conjure into being by magic" then you're a fucking goofball.

The entire logic of the argument is that if you "make" something then you own that thing and have the right to do what you want with it. In the way that, if you were to make a clay jar, then that jar is your and you can use it for whatever you want, including filling it with piss or smashing it with a stick.

But no sane person thinks that a human being is a clay jar and you do not have the right to do whatever you want with a thinking, feeling, sapient being just because you made it.

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>>85250789
Um... Okay.

>implying joker venom could make batman use his full intelligence against the Justice League
That's not how joker venom works
>The poison works on superman, so why couldn't it do that to batman
Point out the obvious flaw in that logic
>Insist that because it works on superman you might be right, try to reframe things to be about me defending shitty writing
I refocus you.
>You just don't understand, bro!

>>85251001
You sir confuse me

>>85250936
I don't understand what was that even supposed to do? Snyder could've had a character driven story, but like always he went for pretentious grandness, ripping off Morrison and wrote a shallow story with one dimensional characters.

>>85250936
The ending was awesome. Everything else sucked.

Let's talk about good Joker stories.
That one time he jokerized the local fish and wanted copyright on fish.

He should have been killed long ago, if not by a Hero, then by a cop or another Villain.

>>85251169
Middle third was better.

>>85251261
>then by a cop or another Villain
This confuses me. I get why they don't kill him off that way, but you'd think they'd at least address the fact that half the people in gotham would want to kill him. You'd think some cop would shoot him, or some prison guard or cook at arkham would poison him.

>>85245932
It is what I keep saying. Batman can't handle Lady Shiva and Cassandra but can handle Darkseid and Doomsday.

>>85251261
His power is always having one level of plot armour higher than Batman.

>>85251473
This is not comic vine
t. power level fag

>>85251696
He's kind of got a point though, batman's plot armor is utterly beyond any other character in DC. Black Canary, Lady Shiva, and other premier martial artists in the DC universe can take batman in a fight, Lex Luthor and Superman are both smarter than him, etc. Batman isn't really THE BEST at anything except for being a detective, yet he can fight Darkseid.

>>85251791
It's just another case of popularity = power level.

>>85251473
>>85251791
This. Whenever Batman is added to a story, everyone else get shit on for the sake of storytelling, which is poor storytelling.

>>85246473
Brilliant chemist and criminal mastermind are his two main skills power-wise.

Joker can make poisons, bombs, all sorts of "Joker-themed" shit for his various schemes.

Very much skilled in gun and knife-fu.

His actual hand-to-hand combat skills depends totally on the writers. Some prefer to have him be a pussy who can be taken down in one punch while others have him being able to go toe-to-toe with Batman.

>>85251791
>Muh power rankings
Don't read capes then, if you want realism.You haven't read Morrison's JLA or Final Crisis, I assume, where Connor Hawke and Atom defeat Darkseid.

>>85246473
He seems indifferent to pain (or finds it amusing, he laughs even when he's being beaten) , he uses knives, but he also has a range of utilities (acid squirting flower, electric buzzers), much like batman.
Other anon's mentions that he's a chems expert, but he is also immune to the chemicals he uses. Hus blanket chemical attacks on Gotham are dangerous because Joker doesn't care if he's poisined, he alone will survive.
That he's a master manipulator. He doesn't always fight batman himself or by himself. He has Harley and a handful of other henchmen for every day of the week to help him do anything he need done.
He's also apparently the most frightening villian in the DCU.
Lastly, in Young Justice they mention that he has some form of fractured mental state that allows him to think as if he had several people working at once in his head, so he would be able to control multiple bodies at one time. It also allows him to think through multiple scenarios at once, and kind of explains why his plans are so elaborate.

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>>85246135

Last great MTV TV Show

Perfect time capsule of the late 90s/pre-911 zeitgeist.

>>85252440
it's hilarious how much that fight had to stretch to favor Batman. Like, when Batman blotted out the fucking sun with bats. Fucking ridiculous. And what is sad about it, is that is exactly how Batman and his fandom work, by being ridiculous.

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>>85249275
>...plans don't affect the world as a whole, or even nations.
>Hasn't heard about the joker and friends grand September prank of '01.

The Joker is probably the worst Batman villain. Nothing about his personality or design is attractive and all the time spend wanking and making excuses for the Joker to come back could be spent making better stories,

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>>85250281
>>85250176
>>85249972
>>85249806
It is a comic book
Superman works because he is fictional and has to work for his stories
You shouldn't need to have a physics degree and have to scientifically prove how a power works before you create a character that has that power
You people can't seem to enjoy anything that isn't possible in the real world
I bet you go jerk off in the non-fiction section of the library with the rest of the homeless

>Want to talk about good Joker stories
Thread gets overtaken by CBR characterfags, fightfags and power wankery fags whining how Batman and Joker are unrealistic compared to other characters and writers don't adhere to muh powerlevels. This is the reason capefags get a bad rep.

>>85252295
Would you quit with the power rankings shit? It's not going full DBZ power level to point out that one fighter is probably better than another, or to point out that a human getting into a fistfight with a being that can go toe to toe with superman should get smeared.
>>85252616
He literally in the post said that there are exceptions.

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>>85251222
Another criminal becomes obsessed with Joker, starts dressing like him, wears a Joker mask, acts super edgy. His goons get confused when they realize it's not an act, and thinks he's Joker.
Joker is all depressed because the fake is better than him, and he's been shot.
Climax at ACE, fake Joker jumps in the vat to become Joker, Batman fails to stop him and he dies because the mixture was changed years ago. Joker becomes happy again and is taken to Arkham.

>>85252752
>Quoting Grant fucking Morrison when talking about good storytelling
Suspension of disbelief to enjoy a story doesn't mean you can't look at the story logically later.

>>85252752
But Alfred, one of the Robins or Bruce himself pumps the air in the tires.

>>85252752
Morrison's great.

Joker literally carries a venom only he and maybe aliens and Ivy is immune to that kills in due to lack of oxygen

>>85252867
Meh, read Final crisis again. It's supposed to be fucking meta than taking it at face value. Also >>85252752

Darkseid and Monitors are supposed to be much more powerful than Superman. Superman going face to face with either of them is supposed to be just as ridiculous.

>>85252903
Agreed put when you can't do anything but analyze every detail of a fictional universe you've clearly missed the point
I'm not arguing that Batman being able to go up against Justice League tier threats is retarded because of contrived plot convenience I'm just saying that talking about Supermans powers is a waste of time I mean he can hear things happening in real time on the other side of the planet he has 4D hearing for gods sake

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Don't you just love how comic book arguments always devolve into everyone telling everyone else to go read the comics?

>>85253205
>/co/
>Reading comics

>>85246725
Marvel God or DC God?

Did the whole "there are 3 Jokers" thing with batman in the cosmic chair ever go anywhere yet? A friend told me about it and for a while I thought he was screwing with me...

>>85254517
I always though that was just them trying to justify his personality changes between the Gold, Silver and Modern age of comics.

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>>85250995
Jesus, this is the dumbest thing I've read this week, and I've been in the suicide squad threads.

>>85254517
no
king said it's happening next arc

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>>85254603
Yeah, and don't try to refute what he said, just say it's dumb and move on.

>>85252752
So you don't like it because you can't keep up with the conversation? It's not people bitching about real life to comic inconsistencies it's just a fun conversation to have.

>>85250995
But that's just an opinion, at the end of the day. What defines a "right" is truthfully completely subjective

>>85256271
>subjective morality meme
Citation needed faggot.

>>85256282
What do you mean citation needed? You're the one making a claim that something exists

>>85248324
>I'm a slave and I just want to do what I'm told

>>85256375
Rejecting a claim that lacks sufficient evidence is not the same as making a positive claim of your own. This is the same bullshit logic religious people use against athiests, but as in that situation, I don't have to prove shit, because I'M not making a claim, I'm just denying the evidence for YOUR claim.

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>>85256515
>claims objective morality exists
>"I'm not making a claim!"

>>85256515
You're literally using religious logic, though

>You claim that objective morality (God) exists
>I say prove it
>You say "heh no way you claimed objective morality (God) doesn't exist, you have to prove it"

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>>85256554
>>85256653
Oh I know, it was just bait originally. Technically speaking I wasn't making a claim, but I was HEAVILY implying one, so it all falls apart.