Did you ever feel sorry for them?

No, they evolved to being shitty persons instead of confronting their own problems, blaming everyone else.

>>85217879
In a way, yeah. It still doesn't justify Orel's treatment.

I felt sorry for Bloberta. She was lonely and she ended up with a husband that she didn't want and children that she didn't really seem to want either.

>>85217879
Thread's theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh-USn_USGw

>>85217972
But she was one of the big reasons Clay become the person he was. She directly caused him to become an alcoholism.

Both deeply flawed individuals who had the power to end their marriage at any time and save themselves but chose not to.

>>85217879
There's no such thing as a tragic monster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRqC9GzodtI

You're either a fiend or you aren't one. And no amount of bellyaching is going to put you in the middle of some esoteric conceit of a spectrum.

>>85217956
>>85218045
>>85218058

Based on their upbringing (especially Clay's), could they have become anything else?

Would they have both been better off being single and childless?

>>85218257

Yes. They would have.

People aren't slaves to their upbringing. Orel himself rose above.

Clay, yeah. A little bit.

Not Bloberta though. Everything is her fault.

>>85218257

That is one of the big questions in society in general. It is possible to change who you are now and what path you are taking. Unfortunately most people do not have the will to do so.

Is it the environments fault for molding the monsters or is it the monsters fault for realizing they can change and then acting on it?

yes for clay

>>85218208
Man, fuck Todd there. Useless little fuck free loads off Bojack's and then tries to take the high ground.

Todd's life has been fucking amazing and he has the nerve to try and talk down to Bojack like he knows what he has been through.

>>85218966
Bojack got him sent to jail and then left him to die on top of a flaming rollercoaster.

>>85218318
I think that the only reason that Orel even managed to turn out okay was because of his ridiculous unwavering faith, which is kind of funny when you think about how his religious fanaticism that actually ended up saving him from turning out like his parents was also the primary conflict of almost every episode.

>>85219183
Todd could've stopped living at Bojacks and worked at any time, especially season 3.

>>85219192
that's why we wanted to see how far the season would go, not just get a timeskip at the worst possible low clay ever had.

>>85218790
>Is it the environments fault for molding the monsters or is it the monsters fault for realizing they can change and then acting on it?

Moving out of Moralville was always an option, Clay's dad knew it and git the hell out of it.

Yeah, I feel sorry for both of them a bit - but if doesn't justify their behavior completely.

>>85218849
>>85218338
This