There is now not one shred of hope that this will be good

There never really was.

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>>85210225

The DC Cinematic Universe is shit.

Too gritty, humorless and pretentious to be enjoyable. Nolan left his mark with Batman. He set the tone... for Batman.

Now people want to turn every character in the DC franchise into an edgy clusterfuck. IT DOESN'T WORK!

>>85210225
Flash looks so shit.

>>85210318
are you ok?

>>85210329
At least he's better than Aquaman.

>>85210320

bawww where are the quips? baaw why is this like an actual movie? I want my 'fun' and 'humor filled' marvel shlock

comic book movies should be fun and happy and quirky, not serious and with actual themes and directed by actual auteurs, leave that shit for the oscar season, not silly stupid little comic book movies

:(

>>85210335

perfectly fine friend, especially now when Suicide Squad broke the record that was previously held by Guardians of the Galaxy

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/08/05/suicide-squad-breaks-box-office-record-for-august-thursday-preview-night

it just feels so good

>>85210338
and Cyborg to be honest... most of them look pretty terrible.

>>85210363
I just wish Batman's suit had more than one shade of grey.

>>85210225
That Flash design though god damn

>>85210370
You'll get one and be thankful!

And he really does look like a beefcake neckless wonder in every single promotional pick he's in.

I also don't think Gadot looks the part and am enough of a sperg that I think Supes should have his trunks... so that's 6 for 6... which is pretty impressive really.

If I was nitpicking - I'd also say Superman looks too shiny.

>>85210390
nice company-wars famalamalam

>>85210381

at least he has style and a unique way of directing, which is more than I can say for any of the no-name literal whos tv tier 'directors' marvel hires

>>85210405
It's only unique because everybody else stopped doing it a decade ago.

>>85210320
At least is not obvious pandering and fan service targeting kids and only kids... better yet, dumb kids.

>>85210320
The tone is not the problem at all. They just are not focused o' m making good stories.
Marvels film's are not better but since they came before and set the tone they're much better received

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>>85210405
Kenneth Brannagh, Jon Faverau, Shane Black and the Russos are MUCH better than your edge-lord retard.

>>85210412

it's unique because no one else does it or can imitate it good enough to be distinct from snyder's style

>>85210414

>muh story
>in a visually driven medium

pleb pls

>>85210434

>fucksuperman.jpg

good to see your true motivations shine out you mouthbreather

>>85210435
Film hasn't been a purely visual medium since 1903.

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>>85210446
Didn't realise I was posting with such a bipartisan gentlemen.

>>85210452

yea, now I'm getting triggered, but that's what I get for talking with people who work at grocery stores, mcdonalds and as cab drivers, carry on

>>85210405
>and a unique way of directing
... and and he is taking risks, and trying things,
thats worth the ticket

The DC movies. In a word grimderp.

>>85210434
>Russos
come on man, you cant be serious, CW was a fucking cartoon. and an expensive one, and a bad one.

>>85210279
i'm more hopeful for that new Mega Man cartoon than anything else from the DCEU TbH

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>>85210435
>>85210472

You clearly think you are much more clever than you actually are.
Films are not purely visual,holy shit..

>>85210585
What are you even trying to say?

>>85210491
and it was better than anything from the DCEU so far

>>85210596
That the problem of the DCEU is not the visual or the tone, and that the Marvel movies are not better in characters and in the plots, they're more well received because they set the tone of what people think a superhero movie should be.

>>85210628
But why did you quote two people saying contradictory things?

>>85210661
Thought one was samefagging

>>85210225
Are DC movies truly bad, or is everyone just comparing it to Marvel with their unrealistic expectations?

>>85210225
Holy shit, flash's fucking helmet/mask makes him look like that one asian gimp guy. I'm at work right now so I can't dig around for a good pic, but someone knows who I mean right?

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>>85210837

>>85210857
Hard gay?

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>>85210883

>>85210837
Little of column a. Little of column b, little of column "let us execs tell you what to do"

The problem is that they don't have good writers or good editors.

So even if the stars aligned and Snyder was on his absolute A-game, he'd still be filming a shit story that'd get even shittier once the Mexican with the garden shears gets it in editing.

Snyder was still directing so I didn't have much hope for it anyway

>>85210837
Less DC movies are bad, more WB is fucking retards and Snyder is a fucking hack

>>85210477
You don't get prizes for participation, this isn't the special olympics.

>>85210837
Both.
I could respect them trying to do their own thing but they don't even do it well and a lot of the arguments for them making the choice they do seems to boil down to "we're doing this because Marvel isn't" but then they backtrack and go "we want Marvel's success why isn't this working?!"

If they took their time and tested the waters instead of trying to edit and reshoot their way into quality after the fact they'd be in a much better place.

>>85210477
>... and and he is taking risks, and trying things,
Do you know what the words you're using mean? "Risk" by definition means there's a possibility of failure. People are declaring it a failure. That is their right, and were they NOT able to do so you couldn't say it was a risky attempt.

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> YFW Aquaman's intro theme is Kid Rock's "American Badass"

>>85210434
>Shane Black

I swear he must've been excited that RDJ was starring in a movie but was then disappointed when he found out it was an Iron Man movie.

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>>85210837
Both, though I do think that comparisons to Marvel are a bigger factor than people like to admit.

I mean Marvel are running like a Swiss watch at the moment. If you take away them still finding their feet with the Incredible Hulk they haven't released an objectively BAD film. Yeah Iron man 2 and Thor 2 are poor films but the characters and the world they inhabit are likeable enough that even though people know they are poor films they give them a pass because damn it if they aren't at least enjoyable.

They've done all this with a bunch of second stringer characters. Ones that vaguely interested normies had heard of, but probably never knew much about them. I mean was Iron Man a household name before the film? Was Thor? Captain America certainly wasn't for me, but then I'm British and don't know how broadly he was known in America.

They've now done it with much more obscure characters for normies like Ant Man, Jessica Jones, Black Panther, Hawkeye, Black Widow, The Guardians of the Galaxy, Falcon etc

DC have an uphill battle because whereas Marvel seem to have perfected the formula for making a blockbuster superhero movie that will make you a fan of just about any character in their roster at the moment, DC haven't. But they can't just copy Marvel's style because they're being compared as it is.

Its as though Marvel and DC are in a baking competition and DC have got just as good ingredients as Marvel, arguably better quality ones but know they'll get marked down if they make their cake using the same methods as Marvel, but Marvel already got their hands on the instructions.

>>85210225
The DCEU was never real. Just a dream of a suit from Hollywood.

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>>85211316
Well it wasn't much of an Iron Man movie anyway.

>>85210434
He looks really gleeful doing that.
Lee truly is a master baiter.

>>85211483
Casuals knew of Captain America but as some flag-waving hoorah USA USA guy.

Chris Evans made him relatable.

>>85210340
Nice straw man bro

>>85210340
Are you actually okay Superman being turned into a moping mess?

>>85211586
Guys like that don't understand how vital Superman's charisma is to his character.

>>85210320
That complaint is literally outdated

Suicide Squad and Justice League were/are supposed to be lighter, but that alone doesn't/won't mean better

>>85211579
>Chris Evans made him relatable.
Chris Evans didn't write the script or the source material.
Stop crediting actors too much.

>>85210600
Not really. The story feels flat on second viewing.

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>>85210340
>like an actual movie
I've only seen MoS and that wasn't an actual movie. It looked like a lengthy commercial written by a self-indulging teenager.

>actual auteurs
Oh you were baiting, good to know.
Pic related is an auteur, Snyder and Goyer aren't. Nolan is auteurish.

Also
>actual auteur movies
>Oscars
top kikkety kek

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>>85210491
It might have been a "fucking cartoon"
It might have been a poor film

But it did what BvS tried to do far better than BvS. At leas tthere was some kind of motivation for what they were fighting. What was Batmans?

>"I saw him level a city".
"Oh wait, I didn't, I saw the Kryptonian terraforming device level the city while Superman and Zod actually only leveled a few buildings."
>"Still not great mind you, hardly Superman doing all of it, but fuck it, if there's a 1% chance he's a against us he has to die, right?"
>" See I'm really sad because one of my workers got crippled and now seems to be blaming me by being salty as fuck and sending me back the cheques of free money I was giving him because apparently Zod was my fault."
>"Ah but now I can't kill him because our mums have the same name, in fact, I now trust him"

I actually don't hate BvS as much as some people do, but don't try and pretend that the motivations for the conflict are better than the ones in Civil War

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>>85211639
Delivery of the lines and physicality of acting can do a hell of a lot man.

If you don't believe me, take the script for BvS and read Lex Luthors lines in Clancy Brown's Luthor voice.

>>85211721
>if there's a 1% chance he's a against us he has to die, right?
But don't you get it anon? War on terror analogies are pure genius, nobody ever did that before.

>>85211764
>Delivery of the lines and physicality of acting can do a hell of a lot man.
Sure, but far from most of the work. Like really, the only reason the media do this shit (give too much credit to actors) is because actors are pretty and visible while writers, directors and even moreso techies are uncool and ugly.

>If you don't believe me, take the script for BvS and read Lex Luthors lines in Clancy Brown's Luthor voice.
No. This is dumb as fuck, and DCAU Luthor is overrated anyway.

>>85210340
Suicide squad was one of the stupidest movies ive ever seen.
I really hate how some dc fans are so deseprate to defend their shir movies that they'll act like they're something more than shallow braindead shlock and really some profound masterpiece and anyone who dislikes them is just a "lol marvdumb fanboy".
I like DC better. I have since i grew out of being a fanboy. and from a non fanboy perspective, the movies are just shit.

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>>85211800
>You're right, delivery of the lines and physicality of acting can do a hell of a lot for a script
>No the idea of someone else delivering the lines making them more palatable is dumb as fuck

Which is it amigo?

>>85211483
WB is banking too much on branding iconography to the point that they forgot to sell people on the characters.

And you can even see it in their defenders to this day. They're still going "everybody knows who Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman are! We don't NEED to convince people to show up or like them!"

And the thing is, you do. You really do. I have no interest in Justice League because I don't like these versions of the characters and they haven't even attempted to charm me yet. Being a household name doesn't mean I'm going to leave the house for you.

>>85211855
>Which is it amigo?
Both.
DCEU Lex was literally written for Eisenberg, and the fact that you like Clancy Brown as Luthor doesn't make him a good fit for that interpretation in any way. Startup wannabe philosphists don't speak like Michael Clarke Duncan.
Michael Rosenbaum on the other hand... is also a jew manlet who succesfully played Luthor Jr. before.

>>85210320
but people are complaining Squad has too many quips?????

>>85210837
Squad is not that bad. It's better than IM 2 and 3

>>85210891
Nah it was some interview or something wherethe guy is all gimped out and talking about fulfilling people's fantasies. It was a meme a few years ago and people would make edits of it.

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CÍA is the only hope

>>85212323

Speaking of characters we need in JL, are they just not going to have a GL in Justice League?

What about Martian Manhunter? I mean on the one hand there's pretty much never been an incarnation of the JL until like the last ten years.
On the other hand, there's the age old problem with him of: how the fuck do you balance a team when you have a shape-shifting psychic superman right there?

I mean, you either do what the cartoon did and have him jobbing hard every episode, or you go COMPLETELY INSANE like Morrisons JLA. Even then he had more storylines based around him (mostly White Martian stuff) than anyone else in there. But that was more because everyone else had ongoings in that team but him. JLA effectively WAS his ongoing.

>>85210225
I liked Suicide Squad despite its flaws, and the Justice League trailer looked decent. Looks like they're getting back on track after Man of Steel and new Flash is adorable.

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>>85210279
We've given everything we can~
There are no heroes left in man~
They'll watch you die to save their lives~
They will not stand he by your side~

>>85212012
>but people are complaining Squad has too many quips?????
Of all the complaints of Skwad, "too many quips" isn't one of them. Maybe poor delivery of some of them or cringey but I haven't heard "too many quips". Unless you're talking about the DCEU fanboys who think that SS was supposed to be oh so serious.

>>85210225
If this was drawn, the artist's style would give it a coherent feeling. Because it's a photo, it feels like those characters don't belong in the same universe.

>>85210405
You should watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Cy_Qlh7VM&ab_channel=Nerdwriter1

>>85210837
>comparing it to Marvel with their unrealistic expectations?
It would be unrealistic expectations if Marvel movies were great when some are good, most are either ok or mediocre/bad.

Critics watch all kind of movie. They compare cape movies to other movies in the same genre which is generally action comedy or action thriller. Cape is not a gender in itself.

FOX is now the eternal second place in cape movies unless the valiant cinematic universe is a succes

>>85210358
When it has a 70% drop off like BvS did, will it feel good then?

>>85210340
Only Ben Affleck could feasibly be called an auteur.

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>>85212821
The general consensus amongst the movie going public is that the Marvel films are good or at the very least enjoyable. You might not think so, but your opinion doesn't drive the zeitgeist

What you're also forgetting is that even though is Stan Lee and his drumming up of company wars back in the day. it was done very tongue in cheek in a banter sort of way, especially given that he played golf with the DC lot at the weekends but some people took it seriously. Still do, and in the minds of many normies its the biggest dividing factor amongst nerds after console wars and whether or not you prefer Kirk or Picard. The moviegoing normie public will compare DC movies against Marvel ones and many of these same aforementioned normies will absolutely play company wars.

You might not consider cape to be a genre, but plenty of critics will compare it against other superhero films because superhero films are seen as a subgenre of action these days. You compare Bourne to Bond, mob films to the Godfather and Superhero movies against other superhero movies and right now Marvel is reigning king atop a pop culture empire.

The Marvel movies are to kids these days what Indiana Jones or Star Wars or Ghostbusters were to kids back in the day, the only difference is they all come under one umbrella.

Now I might sound like a Marvel shill, like I've got my tongue firmly planted up the arse of the house of mouse but I'm genuinely not. I don't think most Marvel films are good, enjoyable to some extent maybe, but not good. I just feel that you vastly underestimate the impact Marvel have made on cinema, or have you failed to notice how Hollywood is desperately trying to copy Marvel with action movies following their mould of having Marvelesque quippy one liners and plenty of light comedy moments. Or the fact that they are desperately trying to catch the shared universe lightning in a bottle again?

>>85212777
Not him but that was interesting.

>>85213114
The problem with this argument in general is that even if you never saw or liked a Marvel movie that doesn't change the fact that, for example, Superman is lacking in charisma.

Even if you hate competition, even if you hate the genre, a hero in ANY form of entertainment needs charisma. Indinana Jones has it. Peter Venkman has it. Han Solo has it. John McClane has it. Jack Sparrow has it.

That's just one of those general rules and when you break it you need a damn good reason for making the lynchpin of your franchise an unlikable prat beyond "It's different! It's a risk!"

>>85213114
>have you failed to notice how Hollywood is desperately trying to copy Marvel with action movies following their mould of having Marvelesque quippy one liners and plenty of light comedy moments
Not him but that's not new in any way, there was just a slowdown on that shit in the 2000s (possibly related to 9/11 making people want to stop joking around with explosions) but "quippy one liners and plenty of light comedy moments" is basically the tagline for Arnold Schwartzenegger's 80s/90s action films career.

Fuck, Marvel even recycled Shane Black.

>Or the fact that they are desperately trying to catch the shared universe lightning in a bottle again?
This I buy.

>>85213223
>and when you break it you need a damn good reason for making the lynchpin of your franchise an unlikable prat beyond "It's different! It's a risk!"
Well when you think about it, that's why Supes isn't the frontliner of the DCEU anymore and Batman is solely because Batfleck wasn't terrible

>>85210340
>le quips meme
You've seen the quipfull trailer right? If not, boy oh boy, do I have bad news for you

>>85213322
The thing is I doubt that was why. I think that was more because WB over relies on Batman in general and "make it more like Batman" is their first step on any kinds of damage control.

Because remember, even when Green Lantern was doing badly, their response was "Don't worry! Green Lantern 2 will be darker and edgier!". They completely ignored the fact that the script was a jumbled mess, Hal was wildly inconsistent and kind of a douchebag, and that they were essentially trying to sell a space opera *minus the space*. They thought the problem was "not dark enough".

The only reason WB isn't well known for being run by retards is because they haven't had the same leaks Sony has.

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>>85213223
Oh I'm aware of that, its not DC's problem by any shape or stretch of the imagination but it absolutely is a stumbling block none the less. Don't ever discount the power of the internet and its ability to change an opinion. I mean look at videos of people who have just come out of watching The Phantom Menace who are raving about it and saying its great, but I'm willing to bet that if you asked a lot of them now they'd call it dogshit. In fact I'd say the Phantom Menace is the perfect example of this because its the first time the internet truly unleashed its vitriol. Yeah its a bad film, but the collective power of the internet I feel is a huge factor in why it is hated as much as it is.

>>85213228
Oh I don't think Marvel invented that particular wheel but they've certainly brought it back in a big way, or rather in the most prominant way given that nothing seems to be able to stop the Marvel juggernaut and that every time a film is meant to be a "big risk" for them it goes over like gangbusters. Light hearted humor and quippy quotable dialog is pretty much their basic element and I can guarantee that the fact that the Avengers , the quippiest of them broke a billion dollars wasn't lost on Hollywood

>>85211483
Oh fuck you, I liked Thor 2 and it certainly wasn't an objectively bad movie other than the final villain being boring.

Winter Soldier, on the other hand, had some self-evident problems.

>>85213414
TWS had some self-evident problems but Thor 2's only issue to you was the villain being boring? Are you actually serious right now?

>>85213459
Name me one other problem in Thor 2 that isn't the final villain being boring.

>>85212465
GL was going to get a movie in 2020.

I say "was" because it's obvious the DCEU is going to get another reboot.

>>85213407
I gotta be honest man while it seems like you're trying to hide it, it still sounds like the central argument you're putting forth is "people are brainwashed into hating DC".

>>85213414
I liked Thor 2 as well, but that doesn't change my opinon that its a poor film.

To me it very much felt like Loki wasn't so prominent in it, but had scenes added at the expense of buiding Maleketh up to be anything more than one of the most paper thin villians I've ever seen in a film. His motivation was literally just "I want to destroy reality" Why? Fuck knows because the only other thing we know about him is that he had beef with Odins dad and by extension Asgard in general.

Its perfectly possible to enjoy a film immensely but be aware that it is a poor film.

>>85213480
Darcy

>>85213407
Again, most succesful action films outside of the 2000s are action-comedies with plenty of one-liners. Fucking James Bond is the master of quippy one-liners. Star Wars is full of dumb comedic moments (although usually not as misplaced as in some Marvel movies). Jesus, Indiana Jones is a thing.
It was only a matter of time until someone brought the genre back to the forefront.

The rest is you just ranting about "unstoppable juggernaut franchise, what will one do?" Which, who gives a shit?

>>85213503
Who? Don't remember her. Therefore not a problem.

>>85213502
Holy fucking shit. I JUST SAID "name a problem that isn't about the final villain being a disappointment."

Can you not read?

>>85212073
You are actually comparing that movie with shit. It is not enough.

>>85213490
>the DCEU is going to get another reboot.
I highly doubt that. WB can only go so long before accepting that they will never have the success that Disney has. The Batman franchise won't die for long, but everything else won't have a shot if the present DCEU fails.

They will try to start a new fad instead of comic book movies. Same for other studios.

>>85213534
Thor as a franchise kind of has the same problem as Green Lantern in that they're wasting potential. A bunch of great space shit and nine realms shit and they instead focus on a really boring romance plot.
Only in Thor 2 it was compounded with "Loki is popular with the female demo! Reshoots! More scenes with him!"

I do kind of have hopes for Ragnarok because at the very least they've admitted that focusing so much on Jane Foster was a bad idea.

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>>85212323
I would pay to see this.

>>85213501
No, my central point is that DC don't just have to craft a good set of movies in order to create their shared universe, but that whatever they create will be invariably compared to Marvel meaning that they have to be at least as good as if not better than Marvel otherwise people will deride its flaws relentlessly, and that films that get derided relentlessly on the internet are always treated as being far far worse than what they actually are.

My point isn't that people are brainwashed into hating DC because that's fucking stupid, my point is that DC have more of an uphill struggle

>>85213534
The chick with the tits, not Nathalie, the other chick, she has a somewhat prominent role.
Not the guys you're talking to and I honestly didn't mind her that much personally, I just found the movie as a whole boring, and only saved by a couple of scenes.
I also don't really like the design choices in the Thor movies but that's me.

>>85213582
But the Loki scenes in Thor 2 were the best parts of the movie.

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>>85213511
> Jesus, Indiana Jones is a thing.

>>85213582
One of my biggest issues is that what we see of the 9 realms is lame as fuck and feels like it was put there to say: "see? fight scenes and minimal lore, be happy."

I have hope for Thor 3, I've only seen one Waititi's movie and it was pretty good.

>>85213534
Holy fucking shit I just said that the seemingly added scenes of Loki hold the film back. Can you not read?

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>>85213613

>>85213511
Yes, it was only a matter of time before someone brought it back to the forefront. My point was that the studio that did so did it with a film that is currently the fifth highest grossing film of all time, and that's probably why we're seeing such a resurgence of it.

>>85213649
Yeah but that scene is amazing and everybody remembers it though. Ties back in with what >>85213223 said about charisma. That is pure Indy charisma there

>>85210340
Kill yourself

>>85213590
I know you're probably joking - but I would too.

I've not paid to see any DC movie post-MoS at the cinema but this would genuinely get me interested again.

Just go full-retard and fill everything with memes. Would be good for a laugh at least.

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>>85213534
>>85213414
>Tell me why the film is bad without mentioning its biggest glaring flaw

Maleketh is pretty fucking important given that the thrust of the film is about stopping him.

>>85213711
Sure, I'm just saying Indy's very memorable for his comedy relief moments, more than its dramatic ones.
Although it mixes both very well, like with the snakes thing.

>>85213753
>I can't name more than a SINGLE criticism
>in the fucking MCU of all things
But sure, let that one criticism make you think the entire movie is one of the worst in the MCU.

>>85210435
>story isn't important
You must be incredibly deluded or retarded to think that

>>85210414
This guy gets it. It isn't about tone or quips or any of that shit. It is entirely about making good characters and good stories.

>>85213114
All the things you wrote doesn't change this basic idea: Marvel haven't done a classic, a chef d'oeuvre. Even the good Marvel movies don't get analyzed by every serious cinema youtuber or cinema critics (as opposed to comic youtuber, funny video).

The whole industry is copying Marvel, yes, but it's not unrealistic for them to succed in doing so as Marvel movies aren't exceptional quality wise.

>>85210837
Its a little bit of both. The movies are really rough around the edges, though I think they are genuinely good movies on the inside. I haven't seen it yet but a lot of people are saying the extended cut makes great improvements to BvS, which would confirm this. They certainly aren't 100% shitty like people claim, it seems as though for some reason none of the flaws of these movies can be accepted.

>>85210837
Suicide Squad was just mediocre, it wasn't really bad. BvS was fucking dogshit though.

>>85214190
>The whole industry is copying Marvel, yes, but it's not unrealistic for them to succed in doing so as Marvel movies aren't exceptional quality wise.
Here is my point; isn't the fact that all the copycats failed, proof that what Marvel is doing ISN'T easy?

Most people have no idea the difference between DC and Marvel, let along the difference between Marvel Studios and Fox X-men/Fant4stic. If it was EASY to do what Marvel does, any number of the attemptd copied would have succeed by now.

I have to make the claim that we have seen the evidence that there is no point dismissing Marvel as being lucky or getting unfair advantage. They are making money because they are doing something right, and all the copycats from Sony, Fox and Warner are doing something wrong. No one is avoiding the other studios for not being Marvel, they couldn't tell which is which anyway. If you had just gave the audience a good film they would support it.

Warner is screwing up because they haven't taken this seriously. They believe in what some here at /co/ believed, that Cap films are easy to make, and competely forgotten that cap films used to suck as badly as videogames movies.

>>85214190
I genuinely believe that Avengers and possibly Guardians of the Galaxy will be remembered as classics from this decade of cinema. Perhaps not on a Godfather, Full Metal Jacket, 2001 level but classics none the less.

They are far too ingrained in the public consciousness

>>85210225
>Snyder
I never had a chance to begin with. He used to be enjoyable when he wasn't trying so hard.

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>>85214218
BvS is a poor movie. Batman's motivation is terrible and Lex Luthor just knows things just because. We don't know why he knows what he knows, or how he knows what people will do, he just does.

But my biggest gripe is with Superman's story.

The first half of the film keeps going on about "must there be a Superman". The news does it, Supes himself does it, wonders if he's doing the right thing and they don't go anywhere with it.

The scene that pissed me off the most in that film was the jar of piss scene because they had the perfect opertunity for Superman to address the world, and the audience about why he feels that what he does is good and why he thinks there should be a Superman. Instead wheels detonates and he just looks sad and then fucks off.

Sure he has a chat with his mum but she basically says "fuck if I know, do it all or do none of it, whatever son" and then he has a chat with his dad....somehow who just says "yeah nah you should probably do it" and that's that. They just drop that story arc.

Fuck BvS

At least Batman doesn't have bat nips.

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>>85214487
>At least Batman doesn't have bat nips xD

He hasn't had batnips in nearly 20 years anon, I aint mad or anything, I'm just confused as to why you'd make the reference

>>85210278
This. It was dead from the get go.

>>85214301
Making a movie is not easy per se but the 90s and early 2000s were full of action comedy and action thriller which results in a lot of bad and good movies.
The heroes in those movie were not superhero in name but you'd have to be invncible to survive Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis or Van Damme's movies. The main difference is those heroes are known in the movie world for their heroics, they have a reputation. And of course, fantastic elements.

Marvel aren't doing anything original in each of their movies in term of scenario or filmaking. It's the way they handle them as a part of big franchise which is new.

Fox is screwing up because they are working with Singer who's only good movies had a really good script to begin with and they don't know what they want with F4. If they wanted a F4 movie that looks like a Marvel's movie, they shouldn't have work with Trank who wasn't there for that.

Warner Bros are all about brand and franchise. They don't try to make movies like Marvel, they try to build a franchise like Marvel. Even outside of their DC movie, since the begining of he 2010s, they are doing less and less movies and relying more and more on their big name directors and big name franchise (hence the new Harry Potter).

>>85210320
You forgot the bad actors without charisma

>>85210320

I agree that the DCCU is a mess.

But the tone isn't the problem. It's completely possible to imagine a series of more grounded films with a darker edge which work well. If anything, the idea of that is a smart move to differentiate it from Marvel's approach.

The problem is the execution. It's that these are BAD dark films. A lot of that falls on Snyder who's been unable to have compelling stories or coherant characters.

>>85212097
Van Darkholme, and he never stopped being a meme.

>>85210384
Yeah it's pretty cool.

>>85214335
The Avengers is only special as it is the assembly of many superheroes from different movies. It doesn't stand well on its own.
It has some good lines and a very good final actions sequence but that's about it. I was really surprised by how uninteresting the first hour was when I watched it in theater, but the ending leaves a good feeling. I'm not a fan of Honest Trailer but their video on The Avengers is spot-on for me.

I really like Guardians of the Galaxy but I think it will become fond memories, a bit like The Goonies for the people who were kids in the 90s (like me...).

>>85214799
I think Marvel's greatest strength is that their in house style is adaptable enough that you can do a political thriller or a heist movie or a space opera with a talking racoon or a straight up comic book on the big screen in the Avengers or a futuristic swords and sorcery fantasty move and have them all feel as though they share the same universe. All still cape movies, but in different subgenres that fit their own niches.

>>85214465
are you an idiot? The arc literally completes itself with Superman finally choosing to be that Superman, when he sacrifices himself. Come on, at least try with your shitty bait.

>>85214465
The jar of piss scene is exactly the moment the movie stops having anything interesting to say at all and just abandons it all for the rest of the movie to be a slugfest

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I'm sure rock music and jokes will save it

>>85215131
Not him, but that really stuck in my craw. I get that Snyder likes his Jesus parallels, but Supes straight up didn't need to die when Wonder Woman could have taken the spear. Or he could have thrown it.

I know they wanted the poignant end, but it really irked me that his sacrifice was selfless, but it was also stupid and unnecessary

>>85214301
>Here is my point; isn't the fact that all the copycats failed, proof that what Marvel is doing ISN'T easy?
You do have a point but it's actually not hard, the problem is that the reason the copycats are failing is because they're trying to do the Cinematic Universe first instead of building it out of a good foundation.

Every time I see these studios say they're planning a cinematic universe like Hasbro, Dark Universe, Valiant, the Ghostbusters, even F4stic entering the X-verse, and state all the movies they're gonna have in it, I just keep asking the question "shouldn't you make sure your first couple of movies are a success first before doing this"? I feel like the only one of these that has a decent shot is the upcoming kaijuverse with Godzilla and Kong because they didn't start out by saying "KAIJUVERSE RIGHT FUCKING NOW" they made sure Godzilla worked out first

Fuck, WB/DC is on their second attempt at this.

It's not like Marvel went Iron Man, Cap, Civil War. That wouldn't have worked at all.

>>85215042
Definitely.
The cost of that is director's style. We only remember 2 names: Russo and Gunn. Other directors, even who made previously acclaimed movies didn't leave an impact.

Marvel control assures that the formula is applied which help making all those movies feeling like they are part of the same universe but deprived most of them from the possibility to be better than formulaic.

>>85214335
Of course they will. They'll always be remembered for being really good action movies, much like Predator or Die Hard.

That's why it's so laughable to see all these people on /co/ be so stupidly contrarian. I mean, I get that sometimes you don't follow the leader and your opinion doesn't match the majority's. Okay, I get it.

But to act like the MCU is some great, big failure of kitsch and camp, and that it won't be remembered fondly 20 years from now is just fucking stupid. It's stupid as a fan of movies and as a fan of comic book superheroes. Marvel is successful for a reason. They broke cinematic ground and their movies are generally considered to be mediocre-to-great. Marvel is absolutely killing it right now and to suggest that they aren't is just fucking stupid.

I sincerely believe that 20 years from now, all these /co/trarian faggots acting like the MCU sucks will be more or less proven wrong by the majority. People are going to look at you guys like you're weirdos.

Squad proved WB can't juggle characters for shit. So my expectations are very low for JL. It's going to be another case where the pacing/editing are shit with a rushed plot

>>85215356
I think we remember Black and Whedon

>>85215332
>It's not like Marvel went Iron Man, Cap, Civil War. That wouldn't have worked at all.
That's precisely what WB did too.

I think that gives better context as to why the DCEU has failed so far. You can't just DO that. You can't rush into things.

And then imagine if we went from that movie, into a Thunderbolts movie. And THEN an Avengers movie. And then after that Avengers movie, we finally got origin movies for most of the Avengers. How fucking stupid would that be?

What's astounding is the level of praise/defense over Squad people are giving it. Look it's not a terrible movie, but it's mediocre and has some major issues. I know people want a good DC universe, I do to, but let's not go crazy

>>85215610
>What's astounding is the level of praise/defense over Squad people are giving it.

It's /co/, DC literally can't do anything wrong in here.

>>85215584
>That's precisely what WB did too.
No WB did Iron Man->Civil War. No Cap in the middle

>>85210338
>>85210329
I respectfully disagree with this shit taste.

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>>85215584
That's entirely DC's problem. They're banking on the knowledge that people have of these characters, but they're overestimating it.

Batman I feel most people know. They know his deal, his villains etc.

Superman less so. They know Lois Lane and Kryptonite, Lex Luthor, Metropolis and maybe General Zod

Wonder Woman? I honestly think that the general public is aware of her name, what she looks like and that she's super strong. Maybe the lasso. Maybe the bracelets. Beyond that she's not a very well known entity

Aquaman is just a meme. Lol he talks to fish. Cheers for that Family Guy

Cyborg and the Flash are pretty much unknowns. Maybe people know the Flash is fast.

They need to make people want to see these characters, not just assume people know who they are and what their deal is

>>85215332
>I feel like the only one of these that has a decent shot is the upcoming kaijuverse with Godzilla and Kong because they didn't start out by saying "KAIJUVERSE RIGHT FUCKING NOW" they made sure Godzilla worked out first
That and the Kaijuverse was already a thing. If you're a fan of Godzilla then you're going to at lest be aware that all those Godzilla vs movies exist.

But WB doesn't even have that. They just expect iconography to be enough of a motivator. They're taking their entire DC lexicon for granted.
That's why they thought they could go "We can deconstruct these characters. Everybody knows already, right? We can kill Superman now. It's not too soon. People love him! They'll totally miss him!"

>>85212465
>On the other hand, there's the age old problem with him of: how the fuck do you balance a team when you have a shape-shifting psychic superman right there?
By cutting some of this superpower. I say we limit him to shape-shifting, flight and psychic.

>>85215802
How old are you? Most of their demo grew up on DC properties such as all the Batman movies, STAS, BTAS, Justice League, Unlimited, Teen Titans, the lost goes on and on.

I can see where you are coming from cause you were probaby too young at the time but a lot of us were not.

>>85215480
I remember Johnstonand Favreau, too. Johnston because I thought he was the ideal director for Cap 1 when he was announced, Favreau because no matter what else happens he was the first so he gets credit for the good foot they got off on.

Because it's easy to forget that if Iron Man had sucked we wouldn't be talking about any of this.

>>85215934
I'm 25 mate and I can gurantee you that most of the people I know wouldn't know much about who Cyborg or the Flash are and would only know a bit about Wonder Woman, Don't assume everyone watched the same shit we did as kids

>>85215934
I think you need to face the reality that there's huge swaths of audience that did NOT grow up with the DCAU, even if they did watch cartoons Remember, lots of kids went outside and played soccer or watched live action shit instead growing up. And not to mention that there's next to no reason a DCAU fan would be invested in the DCEU at this point.

So yes, WB absolutely needs to reintroduce the characters and get people to care about them in this context. They should not, and more importantly cannot continue trying to coast off of past goodwill.

>>85215934
How old are you?

Just because the DCAU was a thing over a decade ago doesn't mean people know anything about most of these characters. There's a reason why Conroy and Hamill are the only recurring voices for DC characters in media

>>85210225
MoS was great, BvS was a masterpiece, and JL will be amazing. Suicide Squad was good too.

>>85215756
Even worse.

>>85215802
>They need to make people want to see these characters, not just assume people know who they are and what their deal is
Exactly. They don't seem to realize that they need to establish these characters first. You can't just throw everything and the kitchen sink at the audience, and then throw in some soulless fan-service in there "for the fans".

You have to properly construct a universe. You have to make people see these characters first. You have to show who they are, what they're dealing with, what their struggles are, their history, and so on. Otherwise it's just not going to have the same impact.

>>85216158
It's been said before, but the fact that Marvel didn't have rights to its biggest characters a decade ago (except Hulk) made it work harder to make people give a shit about their superhero movies.

Imagine Marvel Studios being run by multiple Perlmutters whose fallback plan is to add Spider-Man and Wolverine to everything and you basically have DC's situation under WB.

>>85215480
You don't remember Whedon for the Avengers. You knew him before and that's why you remember he did a Marvel movie. Shane Black was also known before but I doubt most people would know who made Ironman 3.

And do you remember those people for their direction? Because I don't. I like the way the Russos shoot action sequences in Captain America 2. I like the iconic moments where the action almost pause that Gunn craft in GotG.

I don't know what to say about Favreau's style, or Whedon (except that he's better suit to tv). And Black just did some really good scenes in the middle of the "nothing interesting is happening" that was IM3.

>>85210225
I'm sure once it's released you'll be arguing the virtues of the film just like every other one.