Defend this /co/.

You realize the Lich is going to rip himself out of Sweet Pea's body sooner or later, right?

You didn't stop it.

>>85193722
its a comedy show, it did a joke. simple as that

>>85194069
eh

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>>85193722
The manifestation of death and oblivion was defeated by life.


Done.

It was a very good season finale by the way. The next season fucked everything up.

Done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2k7Jf9xO3g

If you don't love this you are wrong in the head.

>>85193722
sweet pea is cute and i feel bad for him ;-;

>>85194541
I won't deny it's a great Lich moment, except it would be even better if it wasn't the Lich as a fucking manbaby.

>>85195311
That's exactly what makes it good.
Contrast.
Ultimate evil lurking under a soft innocent skin.

>>85194069
The literal point of The Lich is that he wasn't supposed to be a funny character.

>>85195311
No it wouldn't you faggot, that would be normal.

>>85195444
Unfortunately they keep treating him like a fucking joke. It's a real shame.

I remember when it was said Finn would meet his father at the Citadel, and then when The Lich started growing flesh I was excited. "Could The Lich be his father? What a twist!"

Not as cool as I hoped but Sweetpea is far better than I feared.

>>85195444
This is Sweetpea though.

He may have the entirety of The Lich within him, but he is not The Lich

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>>85195387
I think that's the Lich's long-term goal. He wants to milk the ticking clock as long as possible. He'll let Sweet Pea become a member of society, grow and be loved, maybe even be a hero or have a family. He'll make the person that is Sweet Pea become more than a state of temporary imprisonment, he'll become a part of the world around him. And only when he's old and closing his eyes for the last time, surrounded by all the people that he loved, all the lives he touched... will the Lich come back.

80, 100 years? What's a few decades for an undying beast of death to wait? The Lich isn't just death indiscriminately, it's a force that waits to make the biggest impact on the biggest amount of people. The Lich could escape if he wanted to, but he doesn't. Because he can wait. He can always just wait. Oppurtunity's abound for those with all the time in the world.

>>85193722
So is the Lich ever coming back out?

>>85193722
I think he played his role as a villain to the max. the problem is you can't apply death or destruction to him - it would make him only stronger. you can either imprison or apply the opposite forces to him. so they did both. also he is still able to come back. I'm not saying it's a satisfying conclusion. just a logical one.

>>85195783
>there's a skeleton inside of all of us
>and sometimes, the skeletons have plans

AT has made a cavalcade of retarded decisions but Lichbaby isn't really bad at all. Death got defeated by life and rendered into a more harmless form. I think it would have been better if he still looked kind of gross but I can appreciate the inherent humor of him being a smiley baby body stretched over the previous skeleton.

The shitty part is that its blatantly temporary since they have no other bad guy besides Lich so he has to come back at the end of the show or whatever, and everyone knows him being a baby is just a waste of time and want him to come back. If they had executed it better this would have been a fitting ending for the Lich, way more original than just Finn and Jake defeating him for real after the tenth time.

>>85193792
it was sweet pea's body in the first place. he just got mutated by the bomb 1000 years ago and the spirit of the catalyst comet entered him. even though his body has been healed, the spirit has remained.. mainly because of shenanigans going on with this era's comet

>>85196925
Am I missing something because that was Billy's body that the Lich took over and after the life juice touched him he turned into Sweet Pea who is an entirely new entity

>>85195849
Damn.

>>85194384
That was actually the season premiere.

>>85195444
its called a bait and switch they made you think they would show you something serious but it ended up making another joke.
A normal person would be happy that they sucesfully managed to fool them, but an autist like you will just reeee the fuck out because you can't imagine anything being something besides whats apparent; and as such assert the creators are wrong about the purpose of their own characters

>>85198938
>A normal person would be happy that they sucesfully managed to fool them
What? That sounds like complete bullshit.
The average person would be a bit disappointed but end up moving on quickly enough.

>>85197088
Billy's body MIGHT have been completely burned away before he was it with the life-juice stuff. We don't know if he's wearing Billy's skeleton too.

Either way, think of it like this. The Lich, when he confronted Finn that last time, was seemingly just a skeleton. And when he was hit with the life-juice, he started growing skin, sinew, and organs.

The brain is an organ.

Sweet Pea is the brain that grew inside the Lich's skull.

>>85200930
Sweet Pea is more like the default state of life and rejuvenation, since that's what the guardian goop seemed to create and it was given to a blank slate in the form of the Lich.

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>>85193722
I'm more concerned with what they made with Finn's dad.

At first, he was going to be a hero locked on the Citadel by mistake and that spend all his time fighting the inmates.

Them they turned him into a jerkass space criminal...and..it WORKED. A lot of people started to think about what he must have done to be included among planet destroyer treats, and aparently becoming the leader of a bunch of them on the final.


But he just is scraped after two other episodes, where he is barely explored besides his superficial relationship with Finn.

>>85195444
The first time they beat him it was with a sweater powered by FRIENDSHIP that they used to rise his skull like a bronco.

Hell, his first appearance was a shot of Billy bootfucking him in a split second scene.

His defeats were always jokes.

>>85201549
The sweater thing was awesome though, what he got defeated by was silly but they still played it straight so that it was intense. Modern AT would have had Finn and the Lich have a quirky, slow paced discussion then at the end something entirely out of left field cuts Lich down in two seconds.

Besides, it was more like the sweater fueled Finn's heroic willpower and shit so he was able to avoid the mind control. He defeated the Lich by tearing his dusty face apart with a girly pink sweater, which is badass as hell.

>>85201858
Hey, that sweater had the power of liking someone a lot. It wasn't just girly. triggered

>>85201934
>pink
>relates to feelings and shit
Man that sweater was girly as hell. But there's nothing wrong with that. You gotsta respect the color pink and emotions and shit.

>>85201413
I still don't think he was actually Finn's dad.

>>85202525
But if he's not Finn's dad his existence would be 100% pointless instead of only like 70% pointless.

Lich and SweatPea are one and the same. Just all that fancy meat he got on his bones caused a reset. All that is the Lich lies below the surface. Will the past memories cause Lich to resurface fully, will SweatPea remain dominant but have full access to who he was, or will he become a mixture of both. The only thing we know for sure is the writers will do a terrible job at it.

>>85201858
Thinks can be silly and badass at the same time, just look at anytime Jake does something cool.

The Lich gets defeated by cool jokes.

>>85203106
Even then the sweater wasn't really used for humor though. The joke wasn't "lol, fucking Lich got owned by a sweater," this was all done in an epic, heroic fashion, so I'm not seeing the joke in there.

Adventure Time isn't relevant anymore

>>85203345
True but if a few poor bastards who can't let go wanna discuss it a little bit then who cares

>>85203082
Basically this.
The writers have cool ideas but they either never really stick through with it or they execute it horribly and this will be no different.

>>85203295
The joke WAS that he was owned by a sweater. In an epic, heroic fashion.

I'm not trying to be mean and say you just didn't get the joke but humour is subjective and all that.

>>85203106
>just look at anytime Jake does something cool
And Finn! Remember in Stakes when...eh..

Remember in The More You Moe Part 2 when he...um..

Remember when he defeated that new crazy Ice Bith-uh...

Well, he's got good hair!

>>85203477
I guess? But I mean, maybe I'm not getting it but that still doesn't seem like a joke to me. I don't know, maybe I'm autistic or something. Brain tumors and all that. Eh whatever who cares.

>>85203345
It isn't? It's probably not as popular as it was in the early 2010s, but it still seems to have a large fanbase.

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even if Bender's Big Score made it a happier ending, i still can't watch this episode.
All of the sad moments in this show are so perfect.

>>85203545
Nah dude.

Nah.

I was just sayin' you have different tastes.

But now I'm sayin' u r a faget.

>>85203502
Only cool thing he's done in like three seasons is seduce Huntress Wizard and even then he didn't close the deal.

>>85203502
>writers have Finn go through hell and back in ten sorts of bullshit dramas and all it's done is make him kind of suck more in general

I don't get it. Even if he was sucking because of the dramas and was supposed to turn out being better off because of it, he should have gotten better by season 7 yet he's still just kind of shitty and indifferent, and he's still getting shit on by life at points.
Shit's weird.

>>85203743
>>85203636
Don't forget he'll still let PB walk over him at the drop of a hat.

>>85203950
That's just something that's a part of Finn. Shit's as integral to the kid as wearing a goofy looking bear hat. He's never getting out from underneath PB's boot.

>>85203950
>>85204018
>>85203743
None of you have seen Stakes have you?,
>PB walks over Finn
when?
>getting shat on
when?
Provide me some examples

>>85203950
She would have to straight up kill Jake, in front of him, for that to stop.

>>85204197
>None of you have seen Stakes have you
You mean when Finn's been the shittiest he's been in seasons? Huh?

>>85203636
>only thing he has done in three seasons is meet a girl
http://adventuretime.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_episodes
You are so full of shit.

>>85204197
Thin Yellow Line, dillweed.

>Banana Guard #whatever: "PB's done some terrible stuff in the past, man."
>Finn: "But she's nice!"
repeat until end of conversation

>>85194541

Clip ends before the two are rubbing dirt in their eyes and sobbing. Boo

>>85204280
As if anyone care about his totally awesome adventures that cause him to think outside the box and try radical new things, then end up meaning nothing the next episode.

The stuff with huntress wizard finally helped him not drop his spaghetti with flame princess and that's the most we've gotten from him in a long fucking time.

>>85194541
King of Ooo and his doggie pal really should have been traumatized or something after is episode. It makes no sense hoe KoO is totally fine with Lich baby in the finale after this shit.

>>85201413
Finn never even thought much of his father in the first place. When told about his father in "Billy's Bucket List," or the season 5 finale, he thought Billy was talking about Joshua. Finn doesn't even think of his biological father as his real one. The only thing Finn wanted to know about his father is where he was in his life, and why he was abandoned. Finn doesn't even like his father at the moment because Martin is a selfish thief. Finn accepted that he can't change Martin.

I think the most important thing to remember, is that Ron Perlman has one sexy voice.

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>>85204560
yes

>>85204560
Could anyone even forget?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrlymHW0qU8

>>85194069
Then why isn't it good at being funny? Does Adventure Time even have jokes? Like, with setups and payoffs? All it is is like, "WHOAHOHO THEY USED A NONSENSE WORD INSTEAD OF A SWEAR" and other non sequitur

>>85204491
the only thing I cared about =/= shit that Finn has done
You do know that "past three seasons" includes season 5 right? List all the shit that Finn did from season 1-4 that actually mattered to know.

>>85204741
humor is subjective. If your argument is by consensus if it is humorous than it is so. You don't run for nine season as a comedy and not appeal to anyone.

>>85204741
>Does Adventure Time even have jokes?
I know you're just being disingenuous but come on, what kind of fucking question is that. The shittiest cartoons in existence have jokes.

AT has jokes beyond wacky words and can be pretty darn funny even in its current state, they just miss the mark a lot more than they used to.

>>85204260
Finn wasn't the focus. He wasn't even getting shat on in the mini-series.

>>85204287
You mean the episode where the Banana Guards are further shown in their incompetence of what is going on and believing rumors? If PB was so bad why did they beg for PB to come back?

>>85204985
Finn not being the focus doesn't explain why he was an incompetent fool the majority of his screentime. They used him for cheap humor and nothing more.

>>85204776
I exaggerated a little. What of it you salty bitch?

Point is he does little and learns less.

>>85203612
Nope. I barely even see the show mentioned anywhere and most of the shows fanbase has moved on to Steven Universe

>>85204985
The hand scene, nearly dropping the garlic bomb, falling asleep and getting captured by the ice king, mistaking "take her back" as "stake her back" from point blank distance and being retarded enough to try it for hours, thereby letting the Moon awaken and nearly kill Marceline (for the second time), letting the king vampire escape when they had him cornered. He was retarded like>>85205054 said.

If it was PB or Marceline being retarded and incompitent as he was you bet your sweet ass the fandom would be up in arms about it.

>>85204260
Finn has always been shown to not have always having the best solutions to solving problems. Even in fucking season 1 episodes he gets defeated. "Buisness Time" Finn tries to save the Fluffy People but fails. The only reason they were saved was because of Jake. Same in "Dungeon" where he gets defeated in nearly every obstacle. Finn isn't the best, but he is righteous. Are you complaining that he can't defeat vampires? Even fucking Marceline had trouble defeating them and she is far more powerful than Finn. The only reason Hierophant was defeated was because Crunchy shoved him into Jake accidentally. Not even Marceline can defeat the Vampire King, if he wanted to kill here he could have, he let her win the first time, and surrendered the first.

>>85194384
but anooon
death is supposed to wiiin
it always wiiins

>>85205030
Because even though they're pretty naive and dumb, they know when their lifestyle goes to shit. They aren't immune to recognizing change.

>>85205077
>he does little and learns less
see here >>85204280

>>85205200
So their lifestyle was fine? They are incompetent. They misuderstood the reasons PB did what she had done in the past, and misheard them from what really happened from a biased viewpoint.

>>85205174
>Are you complaining that he can't defeat vampires?
I'm complaining that he can't stand up and hold something without nearly falling over and that the most useful thing he did in the miniseries was be sex bait for a vampire.

Fuck off, trying to justify Stakes by categorically bringing up other episodes is retarded. The writers don't care, they squash and stretch Finn's power level to suit whatever they want. There's been times where he's defeated hordes of monsters and times where he got his ass kicked by a squirrel. The only reason Finn acted how he did in Stakes was because the writers wanted him to be stupid and incompetent so they could make jokes out of it.

>>85205126
see here >>85205174
The reason for Finn and Jake being included in Stakes was for comedy relief. Sorry it wasn't centered on Finn like you were expecting it to. Even if he was the center of attention, do you honestly believe that he would be able to defeat the vampires? He wouldn't have minded half of them; they were fine with change. The only way he could have defeated the Moon would be sucking her soul directly. So he would have died there. Marceline can barely take down the Hierophant and The Vampire King, do you honestly believe Finn and Jake could have taken them down? Marceline could kill Finn and Jake at any moment if she felt like it.

>>85205208
What he does is barely more than a side character and most of what he learns is dropped by the next episode. He might as well not be the main character.

>>85205301
see here
>>85205388
Finn has always been consistent in his fighting, when has he been nerfed?
>getting beaten by a squirrel
when?
>take on hordes of enemies
They are not as powerful as the vampires in Stakes.

>>85205399
Based on what? Finn is the protagonist and always will be. The same can be said for season 1. He is still the protagonist. The minority of episodes that do not center Finn and Jake are not enough to represent the series as a whole.

>>85205301
>actually unironically believing Finn can kill the Vampire King.
Finn defeating enemies such as the Lich was the result of nerfing the enemies, not giving him a buff.

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>>85193722
It's character development, OP. The show is trying to be deep :^)

>>85205676
Not everytime charactee developement in needs to be heart-wrenchingly deep. Finn going through struggles with his father after being neglected would affect those that go through similar situations with neglectment from their parents. Martin went through no character developement, he is still selfish and now exist as a space deity. Finn just accepted him for who he is, not that he likes him.

>>85205388
>The reason for Finn and Jake being included in Stakes was for comedy relief. Sorry it wasn't centered on Finn like you were expecting it to.
>this is a good thing
>you
We're not expecting a Marceline miniseries to be centered around Finn you dumb cunt. We're expecting him to not be hung out to dry like he obviously was. Again, flip the roles and you'd have people swarming the show for nerfing Bubblegum and Marceline.

Also, nice try not addressing anything else in my post.

>The only way he could have defeated the Moon would be sucking her soul directly. So he would have died there.
Which is why PB said "Take Her Back." dumbass. She was able to pull the "Vamp" out of Marcy, but Finn was retarded and did the same shit for hours on end before it was too late.

>do you honestly believe that he would be able to defeat the vampires?
From the impressive shit he's done in the past, yes. I do think he'd put up a reasonable fight even though he can't damage them. Anything but the level of incompetency that they made him display in that 8-parter. Like above, they mesh, mash and stretch his intelligence, strength and skills to fit the bill of the story they want to tell.

Personally, I think Finn's thorn arm and Jake's stretchy powers would have slowed the vamps down, even for a bit, but we don't see they because they were demoted to comedic relief like you said.

>>85205447
>Finn has always been consistent in his fighting
Nah. There have been episodes where he's taken down monsters super easy and other ones where he got beaten by super weaksauce shit. You are giving the writing far too much credit.

>They are not as powerful as the vampires in Stakes.
Literally stick it in the chest with a stick, that's not hard at all. Stop acting like they're unstoppable when that's the way every single one of them was defeated.

>>85205276
You're sidetracking the argument. Finn should've struck down all BG 182's bullshit claims with cold, hard facts that she's doing those things for their own good as you said, but instead he goes all hurr mode and says "But she''s all sweet and nice!"
She's got him by the balls.

>>85205893
So what Finn was comedy relief? It worked well and they could have easily done it without them.
>suck the vamp juice
Then Finn did not defeat it. Finn isn't omnipotent, he has a limit. Finn defeating enemies that surpass him in power was the result of THEM being nerfed, not Finn getting a buff. You acknowledge the fact that Finn cannot defeat the vampires, and rely on the assumption that the writers will just plot device him in some way. That isn't any better. You guys are complaining about inconsistencies of Finn's strenghts, but the only way he could have defeated the vampires would be by manipulating him. The hierophant can kill Finn easily. The Vamp King will never be defeated by Finn. How can you even consider that a possibility? This isn't the first time Finn's incompetence has resulted in unintended results. It's one of the reasons he was dumped by FP and almost got himself killed in "Dungeon." I can think of a few more but these are off the top of my head. Remember in "From Bad to Worse," where Finn took hours to understand that PB was referring to Science the Rat? Jake was the one that poited out the misunderstanding of what PB said.

>>85193722
Lich is happy how, and only visits death on those that deserve it.

It's character development.

>>85205930
>literally stick in the chest
Yet it has been shown to not be so easy. It's hard to stake someone when they can control your mind and turn invisible. It's hard to stake someone when they can morph into shit that can make your attacks redundant. It's hard to stake someone when they can literally teleport out of your reach and fly. It isn't so easy, and one of the reasons Marceline had trouble.

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>>85193722
the fuck happened, I remember seeing this before the show began. Now I wished it stayed a pilot.

>>85205930
>that's the way every single one was defeated.
You cannot kill the Moon by any means of physical attack, you need to suck her soul directly, or remove her essence. That's PB's doing, not our heros. The hierophant was shown to not be so easy to take down with just Stakes, did you even watch "May I Come In?" The Vamp King let Marceline defeat him, and that's the only way he was defeated. If we didn't include Marceline and PB, Finn wouldn't have fought half of them. The Vamp King, Moon, Fool, and Hierophant are no threat to anyone. They would eat animals just like everyone else. The Empress was the one that wanted to rebuild.

They felt the former was used up for the series. Counting the comics, they were over 93% right

>>85193722

...

nah

>>85206013
Hardly. What does "have by the balls" even mean? Finn knows PB means well because he was there to understand that she always meant well for them. Your argument is that Finn didn't see what the audience has the benefit to for making the decision of if she is truly bad and evil, and was saying she's goof and sweet just because. Have you ever thought that he is loyal to her? Since when is being loyal being walked all over? Have you ever thought that Finn wasn't sure where to start on contradicting theur conspiracies? He didn't exactly have the chance to research and make a decision like we do.

>>85206402
I stopped reading the main line at around issue 20, what am I missing out on

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>tfw when a badass/cool character becomes total shit

Why do people still watch it? It simpsoned itself several seasons ago when the writers kept leaving and the new ones were shit. What's the attachment?

>>85206534
Season 6 isn't season 7, anon. Season 6 was subpar at most.

>>85206166
>It worked well and they could have easily done it without them.
Subjective opinion. I've heard people say they enjoyed Stakes, except the scenes where Finn acted like an idiot.

>You acknowledge the fact that Finn cannot defeat the vampires, and rely on the assumption that the writers will just plot device him in some way. That isn't any better
Just like in The Comet or Blade of Grass? Hmmm...

>suck the vamp juice
What I meant by "She was able to pull the "Vamp" out of Marcy' is that if Finn would have known the right command PB gave him, it's likely that she would have gotten the means to seal her away until they knew what to do with her. But nooooo. He's comedic relief, and therefore was dumb enough to waste hours until Jake points out that maybe Finn misheard her, which was also written to be at the last second.

>Remember in "From Bad to Worse," where Finn took hours to understand that PB was referring to Science the Rat?
Mistaking a simple sentence and command "Take her back" for "Stake her back" isn't the same thing as using the rat Finn obviously had no idea about prior to that episode. Again, nice try.

> It's one of the reasons he was dumped by FP
Which would have been avoided if the writers didn't throw All The Little People into the trash. Depression arc had no business rearing its ugly head in this show.

>and almost got himself killed in "Dungeon."
This one I'll give to you because this was extremely early in the series. But this was him disobeying orders, not mishearing things like you also said in your post.

>>85206830
>subjective opinion
All opinions are subjective, but it's what it is based on. Is what my opinion is based on misguided? There is literally nothing wrong with having Finn and Jake comedic relief. It's not that it was done horribly, it added humor to it all. The ones that are upset about it is because Finn wasn't the center of attention.
>actually wanting plot device to be a thing
You are really desperate trying to prove that Finn can defeat those vampires. Did you forget that he tried to use his grass arm? And it did nothing? Finn even said "Grass blade, ACTIVATE" *fucking nothing*

My point was Finn's incompetence. Not mishearing things. Finn makes bad decisions across the series. He is a great fighter, although undisciplined, it is effective. He isn't the smartest fighter. Mistaking a sentence such as "Guys Take Her Back" and "Guys Stake Her Back" isn't what adds to his incompetence. But waiting until hours before even rethinking it is what does. Same thing in "From Bad To Worse," because he saw the fucking rat pointing at the name tag and thought nothing of it. PB saying "Science is muh rah" was referring to somehing, and what enabled him to remember it was saying rat aloud, which he already did.
>depression arc has no buisness in this show
That's your opinion based on what? The talkback for that thread loved that episode, and speculated that it was a message for us to not ship. Here's another example, breaking the book in "The Lich."He wasn't thinking, he was just doing. That's the problem, his incompetence.

>>85206830
Here's two more examples of Finn showing signs of incompetence. In "The Tower," Finn builds a tower to space to tear off his father's arm. He passes out due to a lack of oxygen. He doesn't think a lot of things through well enough. Remember in "Ghost Fly," where he was expanding his "circle?" Only did he fail to realize the shape he had was not a circle, therefore did not protect him from the ghost.

>>85207111
>>85207300
I'm being too harsh with the whole incompetence thing. Finn isn't entirely incompetent, as he has shown some common sense. But like all of us he is fallible. Finn making mistakes is nothing new. Mistakes may be too light a word here but he isn't some hero that takes down his opponent with wit. He is more like Heracles, who tried to kill the sun for being too hot.

>>85207378
I agree, but I firmly believe Stakes was a blemish on his character. It was not fun to watch at all and I knew it was gonna go downhill after the "don't touch me" scene.

>>85195849
Now you know who Jackass are revolting against. Take that skeleton scum!

>Finn's incompetence has been a staple of his character since the beginning
Well shit I sure as fuck hope he gets rid of it in the future.

>>85203614
According to Wikipedia and Futurama wiki that episode was an homenage to the real story of Hachiko. You might want to check that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachik%C5%8D

>>85193722
Simply th greatest achievment of modern fantasy

>>85206209
Happy?

>>85193722
I can't. After forcing myself to watch the show for two seasons, this is where I finally dropped it.

I'm glad this happened.

>>85210293
It's not for everyone. What made you drop it exactly?

>>85206209
That's not what character developement means you autist. The Lich has been transformed into this squishy being after being affected by the healing blood. That's how you take down the undead, with healing power.

>>85204741
Only manchildren watch this now, so it only has humor that appeals to them.

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>>85195849
spooky...

Let's take a look at the first episode revealed.
>twelve year old finn is fighting marceline
>finn punches her hard enough to stop and say "Ow, that actually hurt"
Now let's take a look at the stakes.
>sixteen year old finn is fighting a being with a fifth of marceline's power
>he can't do shit

You can't defend Stakes, Finn wasn't incompetent, he was borderline retarded.

>>852117200
No more incompetent than in previous appearances.
>borderline retarded
Nice exaggerations, they help your argument and contribute to this discussion.
>>85211504
Great example, the one where Marceline spared Finn and Jake's lives. In season 1. Where Marceline is almost completely different than how she is shown now.
Finn didn't defeat Marceline, he can hurt her, but hurting isn't the same as defeating. If Finn can only hurt Marceline, what makes you think he can even defeat vampires that are more powerful? Like the Vampire King?

>>85211504
What unit of measurement are you using for the representation of power?

>>85211720
>people purpose convincing arguments
>"hurr nuh uh u cant defend it because I say so"

>>85211938
Stop moving the goalposts.
There is a difference in defeating the Vampire King and not being able to hold something. People didn't ask for Finn to defeat anyone. You're digging through seven seasons to find examples when Finn messed up and it's still not comparable to what he did in only one adventure.

>>85212005
>people purpose convincing arguments
That never happened though
And you can't defend it. Did you write or something? If yes, admit your mistakes and never do it again.

Daily Reminder that the Lich was only scary in Mortal Folly and should've never returned.

The defense is that they had to do something else, and they sorta did I guess.

Imagine if season 2 had really been the end. What a glorious ending.

>>85212075
What are you talking about? What is not comparable?
>digging
Nice strawman, you cannot deny the fact that Finn has made poor choices in the past due to his bad judgement. How is this any different to now with how people complain that Finn wasn't heroic. Read the arguments above don't just skip over them.

>>85212092
>"lalalalala *covers ears*
Literally autism. You're not contradicting anything.

>>85201549
It sounds silly but it was pretty badass, senpai. That fight was deadass serious especially when you consider the general tone of the show at the time.

>>85193722
>implying he's not coming back from this
We had an episode not too far back where a different incarnation of the lich spread a part of himself throughout the entire multiverse
The baby, like his prison in the beginning, is only temporary, we can already see him slipping through at times.

>>85207111
>>85207300
>>85206396
>>85206275
>>85205619
Read above >>85212092

>>85212121
Where is the strawman?
There is a difference in making a bad choice and not being able to hold things or being borderline retarded(the moon incident).

Sooo, are we just gonna forget that a chunk of the alternate universe lich was copied into every known dimension?

>>85212165
That's not exactly far-fetched considering we still have two more seasons left.

>>85212165
The indefensible part is that he is definitely coming back, yes.

Defend the fact that they turned him into a baby just to stall. As a permanent ending it would've been rather poignant.

I mean shit, how is Finn gonna kill him in the movie. With a sword?

>>85212184
The strawman is how you represent my argument, making it seem as if I am forcing the notion that Finn has always shown faults in his decision making, therefore it is dismissable. In "Take Her Back" what was Finn holding? Are you referring to the Moon's power where she can mentally set a trance on people rederring them useless?

>>85212191
NYeso

>>85212176
3 of these posts were about killing the vampires(I didn't argue for this) and 2 were digging the series to find where Finn messed up.

Bravo.

>>85212256
How long ago was that, anyways?

I kinda just drop into this show every once in a while and catch up because I don't give enough of a shit anymore to wait for single episodes to release.

>>85212232
And what is your argument then?

>>85203545
It's funny in the abstract. A big bad being defeated by something puny like that is funny, for sure. But I agree the execution didn't have any sense of irony or humor that I could detect. It was all about Finn being incredible and powered by love. There was no dissing of the sweater. It was a truly powerful object because it represented love.

>>85212309
btw remember when Finn loving Princess Bubblegum was noble and nice, and not pathetic and disgusting?

>>85212309
*liking someone very much

>>85212266
You are denying the fact that Finn has faults? You have a funny way of dismissing arguments, you're not contradicting anything; try harder. This is how it works. I look at multiple episodes that show Finn doesn't think things all the way through, or his comprehension results in something unintended. Finn has said stupid shit just for the fuck of it, like in "New Frontier" where he thinks you can just walk on the sun directly from the horizon. I am not randomly stating Finn has shown to be incompetent, and searched for examples to support it. I witnessed multiple accounts of Finn acting like a dipshit and made the conclusion that Finn shows signs of having poor judgement or bad decision making. Along with ignorance. He even admits this himself,"I'm All About Stupid!"

>>85212300
In the reply you just responded to.

>>85212285
"Crossover," aired in spring this year.

>>85212357
January is hardly spring.

>>85212266
It's not so much of makig a mistake, but why he made it. And why it happened.

>>85212327
But nobody argued that Finn doesn't have faults, we already know that. You're just moving the goalposts again. People said ''Finn was acting extremely incompetent in Stakes, almost out of character'' and your argument is that he has acted incompetent in the past. Big revelation

>>85204516
He might as well never met him then. Same thing.

I swear, they were just checking "show Finn's sperm donor" off the list for the purpose of more complete lore. And as a bonus he got more pointless trauma he's supposed to shrug off like everything else.

>>85212325
pardon my French

>>85212374
Considering I said that off the top of my head it was closer than I thought. Sorry I don't keep track of when every single episode airs and memorize it.

>>85201549
Oh hi, Zach Snyder. I'd say I'm pleased to see you here but I know how much you hate joy.

>>85212400
I'm also sorry for assuming that.

>>85212374
>>85212357
Didn't it also leak like a month early?

>>85212386
Then why are people complaining about his behavior in the miniseries? I know Finn's incompetence has been something shown throughout the series, that's why I'm not upset about his behavior in the miniseries; it's nothing new. Do the ones that I was arguing against know that? If knowing Finn has always shown moments of being incompetent, why is there a fuss that he was acting like a fool?

>>85212429
leaks aren't official airdates.

>>85212455
Yeah, but that's when everyone saw it.

>>85206488
>Since when is being loyal being walked all over?
When the master you're loyal to does absolutely nothing for you in return. His bloody loyalty to her has always been the heaviest chain holding him down.

>>85212391
>pointless trauma
Finn is fine with his father being a space deity, he already accepted that he can't change his dad. What extra bagage are you referring to? The only thing Finn wanted to know more was about his mom. Hopefully Preboot/Reboot will explain that, Finn's mom was confirmed for appearing in season 8. Finn just puts these things in his vault regardless.

>>85211962
Marceline ate the souls of five vampires, ergo one of the vampires = one fifth of Marceline's power. Of course some of these vampires seem to be stronger than others, and Hierophant was definitely one of the stronger one, but I would like to point out that Marceline was using his power when she was fighting Finn.

>>85212433
Because they overdid it and gave him no redeeming heroic moment.In fact they have been overdoing it for the past two seasons where Finn acts like a total whimp but the incompetence reached its Zenith in Stakes. Finn is one of my favorite characters yet they managed to make him annoying in the mini series. If you're going to turn him like that, don't use him at all.

>>85212489
>nothing for you in return
like when there was an entire episode dedicated to saving them? (Lady and Peebles). Or how about when she hangs out with him in "Pajama Wars." When she helps Finn revert back to himself in "Don't Look." When she specificly states she cares about him in "Mortal Folly," and gives him a sweater. Did you even watch the "Music Hole?" She set up an entire music session to hopefully cheer Finn up.

>>85212490
Being fine with it is pretty much the same as never dealing with it in the first place, is the thing. That's why I say it's pointless. It's a bad thing he went through and got over, just to go back to the start. Why do all that drama?

> Finn just puts these things in his vault regardless.
Yeah it's basically for the audience benefit only, for loredump. It won't have any impact on Finn emotionally. I don't care at all about his mother unless her appearance is going to change him somehow. Damn, what can they do. Have her walk away from her long lost baby? I'm sure she actually loves him. Can't have BOTH parents disappear into fucking outer space.

>>85212524
These relate to eachother in no way at all. You don't measure power, but you can decide whom is more powerful than whom. If Marceline is more powerful than Finn, and the Vampire King is more powerful than Marceline. The Vampire King is indeed more powerful than Finn. If Finn cannot defeat Marceline, and Marceline cannot defeat the Vampire King, than Finn cannot defeat the Vampire King. The Vampire King let Marceline win. Assuming they are one fifth of her power because there is five and all were sucked is preposterous. I don't even know where to begin. It also assumes that they are all equal in power.

>>85204491
Hey, those goalposts were fine where they were, don't move them!

>>85205077
>I was only pretending to be a retard

>>85212524
I would also like to add, Marceline needed assistance to take down the vampires. She only defeated the Empress because PB was able to save her. She didn't even defeat the Heirophant, if anything she lost from being poisoned. Crunchy accidentally shoved him in Jake, and he decipated. The Vampire King let Marceline win the first time, and surrendered the next.

>>85211938
You are discounting the fact that at the time Marceline had eaten the soul of the Vampire King, plus the souls of the Fool, the Empress, the Moon, and the Hierophant. Not to mention whatever demonic strength she might have from her natural heritage, and the fact that she was in her giant bat form. Keep in mind Finn was sixteen in the stakes, and should be far stronger than when he fought Marceline at age twelve.
Also, I never said anything about Finn beating anyone. Just whether or not he could land a solid hit.

>>85207648
To an extent, but the writers used to believe in him more. at the end of the day, they wanted him to be glorious, to look good and never be humiliated for too long or without purpose. But this is a fantasy show and it's not a crime for your hero to be awesome most of the time. They almost did a 180 on that. I think making him glorious is regarded as too easy and too unrealistic now. So he's lame. Success!

>>85212727
this is a fantasy show*, no but

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>>85212682

>>85212687
He landed many hits on the Vampire King. Plenty. Did you even watch "Checkmate?"

>>85212727
>he's never seen Dungeon
Did you miss that entire season 1 episode where Finn was getting his ass handed to him? Finn has faults, he isn't perfect. Since when has any hero of great legends been perfect? Even Hercules has his flaws. Even the gods themselves weren't free from flaws; they could be deceived and out-witted.

>>85212756
dessipate*
Irrelavent.

>>85212327
Isolated incidents are different from a block of concentrated stupid designed to make him look uncool. It wasn't his miniseries I know, but it's better to take him out of the picture entirely if you need other characters to look temporarily more awesome.

>>85193722

I honestly don't even watch this show, but based on what I have heard about it, this is most likely another subversion of expectations, like with the Princess and the Ice King

>>85212838
Who would provide the comedic relief? Been rewatching the series and I enjoyed seeing Finn and Jake act goofy like their early selves. Was a throwback for me. Since when has Finn being a badass become a standard for the show? We have more episodes where Finn isn't a badass than where he is not. The only thing you should ever expect is Finn and Jake in Ooo, and that's all it was ever about.

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>>85212812

>>85212839
Protip: Don't expect so much and get pissed when your head canon doesn't happen. Watch the show and enjoy it.

>>85212796
The point of that episode was that there are some things he can't do without Jake, to reinforce the team.

It's a tone thing, like WHY is he being made to fail in a situation? You've got to have a good reason if he's gonna get rekt. I notice the show is now more willing to trash him as a lazy plot device, or to make another character look better. Bad reasons.

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>>85212901
My failure to spell words correctly, despite them phonetically being similar, on an image board must be very important. I also didn't sleep at all so that's one reason why I can't think clearly. Irrelavent.

>>85210304
The extremely awkward writing, stiff animation and the hyped up lore episodes that ended up being crap. This was just the last straw.

>>85212942
>Why was he failing in Stakes?
Comedic relief.

>>85212913

It was just a wild guess though, didn't expect much of it

>>85212975
I think the detest for the "hype" is mostly the fault of the network. They do it for ratings, but rate the episode on what you were given, not what you were expecting. It sounds to me that the show just isn't for you.

>>85212890
>We have more episodes where Finn isn't a badass than where he is not.
I gotta disagree here but there have been so many episodes I don't know. I feel like the early seasons did a good job balancing his childish bumbling and the fact that he was, in fact, an amazing hero who was actually needed. He could not be replaced and was famous for it. That fantasy aura is pretty much gone now. He's a kid.

>>85212958
My point is that
>you ignore crucial factors
>you accuse others of using strawmen while using them yourself
>you're a faggot
>i like to bully you

>>85212976
That implies the writers believe we're not gonna get pissed or worried he's failing so hard, and instead we'll laugh. It shows a lack of faith. That's not good when it's a total lark that the main hero of the show is falling all over himself.

It's weird to have him in that role in a miniseries starring a minor character who rarely gets episodes. Like we're gonna be so quick to cheer for Marcy and PB instead?

>>85213060
I can see why you believe that. I don't think much of it because if something happens in an episode I do not like, it is usually self-contained and has no influence on other episode's plots. We still have two more seasons and more to look foward to.

>>85194384
The manifestation of life would not be a baby, it would be a dude going around having sex with everybody.

>>85213130
Is a 9th season confirmed? holy shitballs

>>85213112
If they were trying to appeal to bubbline fags they succeeded, Stakes has been the highest rated thing that has come out of season 7. This shows that the audience will watch AT even if Finn and Jake aren't the center.

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>>85195849

>>85213159
https://mobile.twitter.com/kentisawesome/status/756183428920283136

>>85213112
Comical relief is defined as - the inclusion of a humorous character, scene, or witty dialogue in an otherwise serious work, often to relieve tension. This is what Finn and Jake were meant to do in Stakes.

>>85213199
so, is Finn going past age 18 then? the lifespan of this show is fucking surreal.

>>85213093

>>85213031
Definitely, I liked the first 2-3 seasons and was looking forward to what they'll do with the backstory, but the longer the show went on, the less I was enjoying it.

>>85213217
Making them worthless is a lazy way to make them funny. Laugh with vs. laugh at, you know.

The main reason wasn't comedic relief tho. It was to make Marceline and Bubblegum look more powerful in comparison.

>>85213310
>it was to make Marceline and PB in comparison
Then there would have been no reason to include them. Jake was one of the reasons the Heirophant was even defeated, without him they wouldn't have had a house to shove him in. Finn and Jake also stalled the Moon in just enough time for Marcy to suck out her soul

>>85213031
>rate the episode on what you were given, not what you were expecting
When they try to do drama, what we expect becomes more important. The episodes start to connect one to the next and people expect a decent climax and resolution. You can't just drop shit like a stone after a season finale. Fans have a right to be pissed at manipulative behavior like that.

>>85213484
But for how long? I see people complain about things 2 years ago, does this grieving process ever end?

>>85213367
>Then there would have been no reason to include them
I think they have to. Contractually. Or at least they feel it's important not to ignore Finn and Jake, the main characters. Even if the result is token roles that make them look way too retarded.

>>85213750
the bullshit never stops so neither does the complaining. the thread topic is some bullshit. no way can they make lich's 4th/5th/whatever appearance any good, and yet we are forced to follow this plotline and wait for him to come back. he's not even going to slaughter anybody I bet.

>>85213866
the waiting you're putting on yourself. It's been two seasons with Lich as sweet p, if you honestly are waiting for something to happen its your own doing. What makes you think we are going to revist him?

>>85213759
Exactly and they served as the comical relief.

>>85214043
why would they spend time on it if they're not building up to something? it's the lich, the series has no other big baddie. he must come back. there is going to be a boss fight at the end, no way out of it.

I'd be glad to be wrong actually. I just know by now how the show falls back on cliches when they got nothin else.

>>85214395
>building up
When did we build up the Lich was going to return?

>>85214557
making sweet p a character at all implies that imo. Lich could have fallen off the face of the earth after getting anti-killed. that would have told us he was done for good.

what is the purpose of making the babby version a recurring character? just out of ideas? well, their taste in recurring characters has always been horrible.

but like I said I'm also assuming that he absolutely must be used as a final villain because he's THE villain. I would be surprised and impressed if this did not happen. maybe Finn is too beaten down to get a bossfight. he'll just fade into the sunset.

>>85214740
>he's the villain
And properly dealt with these past two seasons. For season 8 they mentioned a NEW evil and threat to Ooo.

>>85214866
hadn't heard that. interesting if true.

that's a little odd though, since the Lich coming back had developed into a theme, it's happened so many times. Evil always comes back, you know. not like he's not scary at all anymore, but it's a little disappointing to demote him to yet another dude Finn can accidentally get rid of. He was designed as the embodiment of goddamn evil, the destroyer of all existence. Who could possibly be more threatening than him?

That's why the best ending is for Finn and Jake to finally lose against the lich and get their heads on pikes.

>>85215146
Too bad the Lich isn't new. He came back twice it means nothing, gamblers fallacy

>>85193722
Eacj Swert Pea episode was great and it was nice that the only thing able to vanquish destruction incarnate was life itself.
Also, this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrlymHW0qU8
Is one of the best fucking moment of Adventure time.

>>85195783
If sweet pea keeps aging quickly then this is some excellent characterization for a new powerful member of the Squad.

http://www.awn.com/news/cn-expands-adventure-time-franchise-multi-platform-card-wars-sequel?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Here's the source for the "new" threat

>>85215443
>He came back twice it means nothing
Brah it's been 6+ years and there's never been a baddie even close to him. The first and the only. They should've introduced other big bads sooner, so far it feels like it's not even possible for anyone to match him.

But replacing him has a better chance of not being boring shit, so I'll still root for that. I think maybe no big bad at all would be ideal though. Finn's biggest enemy is himself now, dun dun dun.

>>85215638
>who is orgalord
Is the Lich new? No. He isn't coming back.

>>85212413
>Liking Jokes
>wanting things to be funny
>Not wnating things to be serious
has anyone ever been more retarded?

>>85215933
psh, that guy was a one-time gimmicky little season finale prop. not worthy of a series finale, or a feature film. but yeah maybe that type of Ancient Cosmic Evil bluh bluh bluh, is what we can look forward to. that's their idea of Big. In general I have a hard time imagining how this train will finally wreck. Will they try to go huge, or do the opposite and keep it ironically low key? If there's really gonna be a movie they'd have to take the more traditional route.

>>85213224
Don't worry, there will be a time travel plot where Finn goes back to being 15 or something.

>>85212108
I agree that ever since he came back the Lich hasn't been as strong, but his next two appearances were still good enough for me to be mostly impressed by them.

I was disappointed that he came from the bomb and makes his silly looking skeleton face pop out of whatever body he possesses, but hey, with this show it could be literally a million times worse.

>>85193722
Adventure Time is a cuck program featuring cuck romance and cuck story arc resolution.