So what exactly was wrong with him killing criminals?

It's almost like he has a no-killing rule or something.

>B-b-but Batman totally killed THESE FEW GUYS BEFOR-

No, shut the fuck up. His no-killing rule was established early on and has become an incredibly important part of his character. Batman does not kill and will in fact, save criminals if they're in danger of losing their lives. Across all 75 years of the character's history, this has been more or less consistent. Pointing out the legitimately few times he actually did kill someone (mostly in alternate continuities, at that) does not change the fact that Batman has NEVER just straight up killed fools left and right. It's the courts' decision to decide who lives and who dies, not his.

>>85044531
His parents died because of guns, he has a no-kill rule.

>>85044843
>>85044868
Moviefags

>>85044531
Because he's a hardcore pragmatist that has a plan for absolutely everything except for how to stop repeat offender supervillains.

>>85044843
>It's the courts' decision to decide who lives and who dies, not his.
And it's the polices' job to stop crime, not his.

>>85044843
Would people care as much if this Batman was advertised as an Elseworlds version? New universe, new canon, right?

>>85044531
Nothing

>>85044944
And he would let them if they could
There wouldn't be a batman if the police were effectively doing their job from the get go

>>85044950
Problem is, I don't WANT an Elseworlds out of a live-action adaptation, at least not now. I don't want to see a 'different' take on Batman. Elseworlds work because they take the audiences' familiarity with the character and flip them on their heads due to different circumstances that lead to them acting differently. That's why they're alternate takes on these characters.

But with a cinematic adaptation of the comics, you kinda just want to see the most iconic version adapted. You want to see these characters in-canon. You want them to follow storylines set in the 'main' canon.

>>85045014
But the courts are obviously not effective at doing their jobs either ergo he should also take over for them.

>>85044531
Too much with the guns and the movie was so damn grim there was no variation, plus it was so inhuman it was hard to give a shit. If they'd given him a few more human moments and shown at least the smallest out amount of self-doubt before that Martha moment it wouldn't have really been that bad.

Basically it wasn't really that big a deal and the no kill rule has always been a bit more of a suggestion than a rule, about intent not result. Batman has allowed people to die and accidentally crippled and killed people both in and out of comics. It's just the movie itself was about a conflict between two grim, tortured dudes in a grim, troubled world applying excessive force to bad guys with their extraordinary abilities, and it was really hard to see why they were fighting in the first place.

>>85044843

Oh, bullshit, there has been as many incarnations of him that at the least don't care about manslaughter and/or killing in self defense. And as long as he doesn't become the Punisher, there is little danger of him changing beyond the point of recognizing him as Batman. Just accepting that sometimes to kill is the hard choice that has to be taken. Hell, outside the comics he pretty much always kills, and I would question the quality of the continued life of some of his thugs even then.

In every single movie incarnation he is responsible for or lets villains die. I can't think f an exception. Nolan 'I don't have to save you' Bats. Burton 'fucking set you on fire' Bats. Now Bat of Manslaughter. Hell, despite what the 'detective mode' of the Arkham game says, a lot of thugs die in those games.

The only reason (main setting) comic Batsy never kills is because it's hard to write new villains. Simple as that. And it's stupid and something that ruins the long-term plot.

>Oh no. the Joker is on the loose. What will happen? Some no-names will get killed, mayhem will occur, and then he will end up in Arkham. Rinse and repeat for-fucking-ever.

There is a reason the Joker dies in practically every Elseworld.

>>85044531
-sigh-

Because Batman is mentally damaged. And he knows it. He knows that he lacks the self control to stop. If Batman killed a rapist, then he could justify killing a mugger. If he kills a mugger, he could justify killing a litterbug or Jaywalker. He wouldn't have the capacity to stop. It's his great strength - his tenacity and his relentlessness. So he knows that he needs to keep himself in check because once he crosses that line he won't stop. He won't quit. It will be the law according to Batman, and he knows that nobody in Gotham except one or two members of the Justice League can stop him. Batman has always been one centimetre away from becoming one of his villains. He's on the precipice.

He doesn't have the mental fortitude to be objective as Judge, Jury and Executioner.

Then there's the whole story aspect of it.

If Batman killed his villains - what reason do his villains have for being alive? If Batman is happy shooting guys just doing their job with a tank, why is someone like Joker still around? If Joker is too tough for Batman to handle then how is Batman a badass?

It's far better for the story to have Batsy catch the bad guy then grapple with whether or not to kill them, only to take the right path at the last moment and be the hero.

>>85045060
he can help the police force get it's footing by helping them take in criminals
if he takes over the courts theres no room for gotham to learn to stand on its own
Gordon still gets to help reform the PD with batman being batman but removing the judical system and replacing it with batman doesn't work

>>85045129
>If Batman killed a rapist, then he could justify killing a mugger.
What if we wrote a Batman that just didn't do that thing you said? It would be pretty easy.

This Batman seemingly used to have a no-kill rule, though. His conversation with Alfred is pretty much about how he just doesn't care anymore. He's more jaded and cynical than ever, and he's lost hope(on this planet it's an S).

In the hands of a better director, this could have been a really cool interpretation of the character.

>>85044944
Every adaptation is an Elseworlds by definition if not explicit name. The people wanting slavish devotion to the source don't know what they want. It's that the movie was poorly done and the emphasis was on characters as concepts, not people. Honestly I think the only reason so many of us like Affleck regardless of what we think of the rest of the movie is because we're filling in our expectations of what Batman is. What actually happens on the screen is a lot of brooding and no meaningful interaction with other characters.

>>85044531
I've always felt that Batman shouldn't kill. Not that it doesn't sometimes happen - the reality of the superhero job, of beating the shit out of criminals - means that sometimes it happens. But Batman should never go out of his way to kill. He should always be trying not to, if possible.

>>85044531
I was actually okay with him killing. It was established early on before the movie premired that he would be a gritty, do-whats-needs-to-be-done vigilante.

>>85045137
Then keep the judicial system and Batman can just removes the supervillains.

I don't mine him Killing, but at least address it in the movie, give an explanation on why

>>85044531
well it's not very interested innit? compared to when he doesn't kill.
batman who kills? goes out, kills the guy, goes home
batman who doesn't kill? tries to use wit and intelligence to get his rogues to turn themself in. Most don't, but some do, and he tries to make sure they get help, and checks up on their progress,
if they have trouble getting a job after doing their time/getting cured, he tries to find somewhere in Wayne Industries they could work.

not to mention, a no kill rule acts as a barrier to writers, making it harder for them to just make a schlocky 'hero solves everything with violence' story, and encourages them to take the time to explore Batman's empathy. sure, maybe 4/5 of their stories will still be resolved by Batman punching the villain in the face, but if they have to think about Batman's no kill rule while constructing their story that can inspire them to include scenes of Batman rehabilitating other people, being empathic to the villain's goons who just want food and shelter, and to the villain's victims who also tend to be people in need

>>85045197
>Then keep the judicial system and Batman can just removes the supervillains.
thats what the fuck he does
He handles shit the cops can't, wont, or would never get to in time
he's a supplement not a replacement

>>85045228
But he doesn't. His rogues just revolve around the door in the system and come back for more.

>>85045260
Were you trying to say batman should kill his villains?
Because that bypasses the judicial system
You can't keep the judicial system and have batman become the judicial system

>>85045081

I just watched about an hour of it last night for the first time and there are bits of humanity with Bruce. Hell, even the line Alfred speaks to him about shit turning good men cruel has Bruce sort of react to it.

>>85045313
There are criminals besides supervillains dude. Batman didn't show up and put all the cops out of a job. Like you said Bats is a supplement.

>>85045160

This. This Batman has seen shit, has been through shit, and is clearly fucking tired of shit.

>>85045367
that doesn't mean he should be allowed to kill off supervillains because "oh we have plenty more"

>>85045391
No he should kill supervillains because they endanger innocent lives.

>>85045415
so do normal criminals

>>85045431
And he should feel free to figuratively pull the trigger on that too if he ever has too but we all know he'll never be put in that kind of situation.

>>85045466
But it should never be one man's decision who lives or dies
What's just or unjust
or who's guilty and who's not
it's why we have the judicial system in the first place
Also this post is relevant >>85045129

>>85045057
Fucking this.

>>85045353
I thought of that, but even that was a very brief platitude that just didn't do enough. It was a half-snide half-sincere remark. Think about how we saw both Keaton and Bale have doubts, fall in love, have long conversations about being Batman. Characters have to talk with each other, they can't just quote TDKR out of context so fans can nod their heads at how profound it all is. There's no sense that Bruce is enjoying being Batman, or hating it, or doing it out of sense of duty. He's just Batman, and that's it. That's just not very compelling, and I don't find much moral conflict in him killing Luthor's random goons.

The sense I got is that in this universe is that really gloomy dudes exist to fight other gloomy dudes and if civvies get in the way, oh well. It almost felt like Kingdom Come but maybe before things got really bad.

>>85045219
They did, they just didn't do a very good job of explaining.

There's the scene where Alfred confronts Bruce about his recent activities, how he seems to just recently have gone off the deep end.
>Bruce: We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals. Nothing's changed.
>Alfred: Oh, yes it has, sir. Everything's changed. Men fall from the sky, the gods hurl thunderbolts, innocents die. That's how it starts, sir. The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men... cruel.

Basically, "Master Bruce, I understand that with all the shit going on, you feel like you need to change up what you've been doing, but you're kind of freaking me out now. You didn't used to be like this."

>>85045507
>But it should never be one man's decision who lives or dies
Pfft. Why not? Let's say the Joker killed like 50 people over the last 5 years. A conservative number probably. And he's highly likely to kill 50 more in the next 5 years. Just to punctate that point here he is right now in this moment about to kill more people. He's been in and out of the system and that obviously has failed. By not killing him this is allowed to go on. This is the decision he's making.

Also: >>85045159
That whole "I wouldn't be able to stop" shit is just a flimsy excuse anyway. If he has such great self control whats stopping him from deciding where the cut off is?

>>85045595
The problem with that is that it relies upon the audience assuming Bats didn't kill and wasn't all angry all the time. I have no way of knowing that. I can infer it because I know Bats is traditionally not quite this grim and also the camera lingers on the Jason Todd suit but none of that really tells us anything, while also being weirdly obvious and patronizing if you are starting from the comics perspective. It requires us to already be shocked at how dark he is, but he isn't any darker than Burton or Nolan Batman except in how much collateral damage he caused, and even that might be questionable considering Keaton blew up a factory and Bale blew up part of a parking garage.

>>85044531
At least it wasn't as bad as Nolanbats who had a no kill rule but still killed people in every move.

>>85044531
because he becomes a less interesting and totally different character?

its like asking
"so whats wrong with him joining the Navy and becoming a pilot?"

Besides the fact thats someone elses story....

>>85045057
exactly.

"the fans are just afraid of change" someone said.

Things would have to exist first....before they change...

>>85045734
>Things would have to exist first.
Haven't you heard about comicbooks?

The fact that he both used guns and killed people is what gets me. One or the other might be acceptable, but with both you have to ask what the trauma of his parents' death was, especially since the movie harped on about more than most do which is saying something. Either he should be so traumatized by their deaths that he refuses to kill, or he refuses to use guns.

>>85045106
I dont know what your implying. When ever i hit someone with my car, i just keep going. I just KNOW they are alive, i got skills like that.

>>85044531
Yeah, i would love to see this tool belt.
One gun, plus pouches of bullets.

Bruce trained for years ....to shoot people with a gun.
Batman trained in stealth...to break into their houses and shoot them in the bed.

Thanks, Batman!

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>>85044531
Nothing, it was great. I never thought I'd like a Batman but here we are.

If Batman isn't gonna batmanslaughter someone every once in a while then he needs to lighten the fuck up.

>>85045752
yes. Were talking about the movie. Have you heard? Theres been a whole bunch of Batman movies out! Its crazy! Oh man, i envy you! Get to see them for the first time!

Right now, were talking about a movie called Batman V. Superman. I KNOW, RIGHT? IN THE SAME MOVIE!

Go see it, then come back to the thread, ok?

>>85045839
That's a long post for one sarcastic joke. Overstayed its welcome I say.
But anyway what you're implying is that a change of an established 75 year old character doesn't count unless its in the same medium. Which is stupid.

>>85045907
No you're stupid

>>85045907
that doesnt make any sense. If an adaption is wrong, its wrong.

Imagine if the Harry Potter movies, and their just like "nah, he goes to a normal high school, a magic highschool would be weird"

>>85044531
>why is Batman's Rogue Gallery still alive?

This was all fun & games to them until Batman had enough with the half measures. They probably stayed in Arkham or layed low knowing their next heist is going to be their last.

With Joker, who knows? Most likely knows that Batman isn't fucking around anymore & their next encounter won't end with a escort to Gotham

>>85045959
The Harry Potter movie adaptation did get things wrong. EVERY adaptation gets things wrong. But there are more to things than nerd's nitpicky details. Not every change is bad. Things can be played around with and still be a perfectly valid interpretations

>>85044896
I thought moviefags were the one okay with him killing?

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>>85044531

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>>85044531
He's a police consultant at best, it's like demanding these guys kill people.

>>85046127
Nigga are you kidding? The police consultants for him if anything.

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>>85044843
>2000-kid

>>85044531
I thought he "didn't"?
Lex hired goons to kill the guys who were branded.

>>85046157
>I learned it from you okay! I learned it from watching you!

>>85046060
and tiny nitpicky things arent what were talking about, are we?

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>>85046109
>winnickfag

>>85046200
In my eyes: yeah kinda.
If anything is the problem the Batbranding is a bit over the top edgy.

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>>85045839

>So what exactly was wrong with him killing criminals?

Nothing. But it means it's a version of batman slightly harder than average Frank Miller. And that's really limiting, especially if you've got the rest of the league there.

I mean, there's nothing WRONG with more Injustice or Flashpoint, but it means that all the other characters tones are going to be fucked up and dark.

See also: Superman's dad.

>kills criminals
>doesn't kill the joker or his bimbo
at least be consistent

>>85044531
Some retards dont understand how time works, and how people can change for the worst based on bad experiences.

>>85046395
Character development is a foreign concept for capeshitfags.

>>85045507
>Who's guilty and who's not
That's fucking stupid though
I disagree with batman killing people but that's a dumb point
>guy just robbed a store or mugged somebody or something
>GEE I WONDER IF HE'S GUILTY I SURE CAN'T DECIDE THAT MYSELF
If you catch somebody literally in the act of breaking the law, then they're guilty dude

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I want to discuss Batman killing in the Arkham Knight DLC. Should i feel bad for wanting to see Ra's dying behind bars, Nyssa safe and the League of Assassins war stopped?. Everyone says it's a choice the Arkham games Batman canonically would never make, but even him wanted his followers to let him die. Even if you choose to help Ra's, Batman destroys the Lazarus pit, so he only delyed Ra's death one more time.

>>85045678
Keaton Batman was ruthlessly murdering people way before this movie was a fucking thought. That dude was throwing motherfuckers off buildings and blowing them up with bombs and shit.

Either him or Superman one should have been less of a violent asshole so they'd actually have a basis for their conflict.

>>85044531

Considering it's used to depict how Batman in this world has gone entirely suicidal, apathetic, cynical and for all senses and purposes has lost all hope for his mission, there's nothing objectionable about it. This is a guy who let the Wayne mansion go decrepit. Alfred doesn't even live with him anymore. He's at the end of his rope and it's ugly, he's turned more brutal, stopped mostly caring as much about his no-kill rule because he sees it's just another reason why he's failed to make a difference. That's the point, this Batman is not your Batman, he's a Batman who failed his own mission and only gets saved from the darkness by Superman at the very end of the movie, an act that inspires him to become his old, happier guy again.

But of course let it for autistic comic fanboys to REEEEEEEEEEE in unison when they do not understand things like characterization and emotions because this version doesn't match 100% to their own personal rated PG headcanon.

Burton Batman threw a guy off a tower, dropped the Joker off a tower, shot two guys with the Batplane's cannons, blew up a factory with a bunch of goons in it, lit some clown henchmen on fire, stuck a bomb in a henchman's pants before kicking him into a pit to explode, etc.

Nolan Batman blew up a building with a bunch of ninjas in it, knocked Ra's al Ghul to a ledge and then refused to pull him up from the fall that killed him, threw Two-Face off a building to his death, gunned down the League of Shadows goon driving the nuke truck, and killed Talia al Ghul by forcing her truck to crash.

West Batman was just a savage in general.

If anything it would have been unusual if Batfleck DIDN'T kill anyone. Every previous cinematic Batman has done it.

>>85045760
This. At this point he might as well be a rich boy Punisher-lite with the way he was handled in the film.

>>85048078
>rich boy Punisher-lite

Sounds accurate for Batman.

>>85048046
>Every previous cinematic Batman has done it.
that just makes it even more pathetic

>>85045760
Refusing to use guns is stupid and would just result in his death in real life. It also makes Bats look way too overly emotional, lots of people whose loved ones were killed by guns go on to become soldiers and police officers, these people shouldn't be considered to be way tougher than Batman.

It's a good thing that Batfleck isn't a dumbass and recognizes that mounting autocannons your plane and car counts as using guns.

>>85048112
explain

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>>85044531
The only reason Batman has the no-kill rule is so writers can reuse villains.

Christ, after 75 years of Batman and he ended up killing every single villain you will go fucking insane trying to come up with new villains all the time without blowing up the universe all the time to reuse them again.

I am getting nervous just thinking about coming up with my own batman villain and the best I could come up with is some dude with a green suit and a banjo robbing banks.

can you imagine?

>>85044531
>why doesn't batman kill?
>why is batman killing?

Sometimes you can't win.

>>85044531
>>85044531
It's harder to capture than kill. Batman killing his enemies is easy and just devalues the entire point of being a superhero; anyone can kill the Joker, but only Batman can bring him in.

People that insist Batman kill people are small minded individuals that can't conceive of anyone more capable or skilled than they themselves are.

>>85044531
How can the Suicide Squad exist in a world where Batman has no problems with killing criminals who don't surrender?

Did the cops/ other heroes bring them in? Then where's the need for Batman?

>>85048197
Just think of the amount of lives that would still be alive today if Batman killed the Joker.

And the lives that were attached, affected or gave birth to new life.

But, forget all the lives that will die when the Joker escapes again. We need to be a hero to the people who wont be effected by his mass killings.

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>>85044531
1) Some people like the no-kill rule he generally respects in the comics

2) It was, supposedly, the result of a character arc we didn't get to see, we're only told he lost it somewhere down the line when Robin died and/or Superman became a thing

3) Because, again, we don't know exactly the context, people are confused wether killing is normal or unusual for this Batman. Example: Alfred complains about the branding but doesn't speak a word about Bruce killing with his car or with weaponry like the Batwing's gun. And for the branding, the Ultimate edition reveals it was only because of Lex's current conspiracies that those branded criminals died, further confusing about wether Batman's used to kill or not. Because if the brand-kills were out of his control, the machine guns weren't, and Robin had a freaking halbard

4) In case killing is normal for him, it feels weird long-time villains like Joker are still around. Makes it feel like he kills in this movie only because the director couldn't picture a different action scene

5) The director itself. Snyder's known for his juvenile views of what's cool or not so it doesn't feel like he really considered that Batman killing would be controversial. The fact that in interviews he claims the Batman from DKR "kills all the time" only confirm his ignorance/carelessness on the subject

6) It just leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth. It might be "mature" or whatever, but you can't blame people for being annoyed that one of their beloved hero is depicted as a deranged psychopath who's main objective is to kill left and right, including the other beloved hero


Now, you guys are perfectly allowed to call all of this autism or whatever, but if fans of the movie are allowed to over-analyze everything for the sake of proving the movie's too deep for general audiences then the same way people should be analyze why they didn't like the thing

Its really infantile to think that Batman or anyone else wouldn't kill some of these insane incredibly violent maniacs and thugs.

How do you think Batman would have tackled the Harambe situation?

>>85048239
>Just think of the amount of lives that would still be alive today if Batman killed the Joker.
I have. And I've weighed that against the number of copycats and even worse psychopaths that would arise from the power vaccuum.

>>85048239
>Just think of the amount of lives that would still be alive today if Batman killed the Joker.

That's a load of shit and you know it. Joker is alive because he sells.

>>85048197
>anyone can kill the Joker

Then why haven't they?

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>this TRIGGERS the normies, muh one rule nolanfags and marvel drones

Thank you based Snyder

>>85048278
Yes. That's the real life reason but dumb fans try and attach an in universe reason for not killing Joker, such as "muh kill a killer same nunber of killers" which is fucking retarded.

>>85048272
Every time the joker breaks out he goes recruiting new people, the world does not stop when he is in prison.

>>85048278
Kinda sorta not the point. Folks are talking about in-universe reasons why to not kill the joker, and I gave a retort on why they should.

Not talking about real-life sales and such.

>>85046157
Batman not ever killing, even in self defense or heat of battle type situations mostly became a thing after BTAS.

>>85044531
Not muh

>>85048135
well if you've been handed a budget in the billions to do the latest adaption of a globally recognized franchise, you want to do a better job than all the previous ones so far, and you want to avoid retreading the same ground.

dwelling so much on this Batman's disregard for life...it's not pushing the envelope half as much as it wishes it was since we've already seen Batman kill and let people die. It's not groundbreaking, it's just more of the same. It's not impressive because that ground has already been broken with zero fanfare.

Why would you come here and try to wow your audience with all these reheated ideas? we've seen Batman kill on the big screen. We've seen Batman stop giving a shit about the law. We've seen Batman stop giving a shit about the consequences of his actions. We've seen Batman swallow his pride and admit he fell off the path.

it's too caught up in being grittier and harder than the movies that came before it, it doesn't consider that it's basically serving a quadruple sized serving of chocolate icecream for desert to people who have already been served chocolate icecream for breakfast and lunch. Too caught up in outdoing the other chefs to consider serving something other than chocolate icecream

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>>85048292

>>85044531
Batman is lying when he says that he has a no-kill policy for moral reasons. We all know it's because if he killed criminals the crime problem would be solved within a couple of weeks and he would have no mentally ill or impoverished people to beat up.

>>85046395
>>85046430
plebs

>>85044531
Because it doesnt make sense for him to kill random thugs but leave the named famous villains alive

>>85048489
Learn to context. He kills in live or die self-defense situations, he doesn't go around murdering everyone he comes across

>>85044531
Nothing really. He kills during fights, when other lives are at stake, and when he doesn't have time to do the whole knockout ninja thing. He doesn't execute people, and once he knows the brand is a death sentence he stops using it, even if you can see that he really wanted to hit Lex with it.

I spent the last week watching a fuck ton of batman animated stuff and I have to say, as far as live action goes Batffleck is my favorite, he's more like the batman in the dark knight returns than anything to me.

>>85044531
I didn't have a problem with him killing criminals, what I didn't understand was why he kept on killing after he suddenly found his way when he made amends with Superman.

>>85048586
The guys in the warehouse were paid mercenaries that were told to kill his mom no matter what.
My guess is he decided since they were soldiers they were in for it. Also you can't say for sure he killed everyone in that warehouse fight. the grenade guys died for sure, knife guy likely didn't die. maybe blood spot dude on wall died. the rests deaths are questionable except for the final guy.

>>85048619
>maybe blood spot dude on wall died
Oh, yeah. He definitely died.

You're right, people should be able to kill people while wearing a mask and then say that the victim was criminal. That precedent will end well.

>>85048637
That's how it works in Oblivion.

>>85048586
Well niggas keep saying slippery slope and shit, so

>>85048646
No, in Oblivion you kill people then take your mask off and say the culprit was a criminal

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The real issue: Villains are a marketable commodity in comic publication and must survive their many encounters with their respective hero.

The task: creating reasons for villains to survive their encounters so they can return.

The inherit problem: recurring villains make the hero seem ineffectual over the course of time any one person reads a book.

The solution: Liquidate villains as a commodity, willingly produce new antagonist on a regular basis and have older ones go the way of the dodo by editorial mandate. That's not gonna happen, but it's fun to dream.

>>85049058
>There will never be a resolution
>Just the same old shit until the end of fucking time

>>85044843
found the SJW faggot

>>85044843
being this new to life. Happy of your faggot post marvel fanboi ?

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And if the GCPD wasn't a worthless shitheap of losers, maybe The Joker problem would've been solved ages ago.

>>85044531
to differentiate him from The Shadow.

>>85044531
Fuck off, Snyder.

>>85044950
>>85045057
The different circumstance is Superman coming late in Batman's career. Batman without his best friend would go insane.

>>85045646
The people of Gotham deserve it for not stopping Joker. Why should Batman kill him? Change your fucking laws Gotham.

The dumbest stretch of the never killed thing has got to be in New52 B&R. When Bruce goes to Apokolips to retrieve Damian's sarchophogus wearing the Hellbat suit. He shoots batarangs into Para-demon's skulls and both eyes, punches them and throws them around (mind you the Hellbat armor is powerful enough to make Darkseid recoil in pain), literally flies through a Para-demon flying vessel-ship, exploding it and throwing para-demons to the ground from at least 100ft if not more, later stands on top of what looks like a pile of Para-demon corpses. Then Red Hood arrives and tells Batman he just killed a whole lot of Para-Demon's, and Batman is just like "Nope, all my weapons were set to stun, I haven't taken a single life".

Guess the ground, crushed skulls and explosions were set to stun...

>>85044843

Innocent people are worth more than
>MUH RULES

Also he killed people in every Nolan movie and you never complained about a single one.

FAGGOT

the normies are absolutely assblasted by snyder, I love it

>>85049323
big budget movies practically require death

>>85049263
seriously
they control the laws, they're the ones who keep sendingcriminals to arkham instead of blackgate

He shouldn't act like the punisher but he should really kill sometime.

The "he is mentally ill" meme doesn't work because he clearly isn't, it has some obsessions but who doesn't

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But why does he wear the mask?

>>85044843
If it's not here, can someone post the page where Joker's been shot, Gordon clears the roof to talk Batman into not taking him to the hospital, and Batman's all "NOBODY DIES!"?

>>85044843

And the point of the movie was that Batman went lmost insane.
Tht he is WRONG and that needed superman to save him and that0s what we got.

>>85049323

>Also he killed people in every Nolan movie and you never complained about a single one.

Wow i didn't know you knew my post history, thats really cool bro what else do you know about me?

I enjoy reading people defend BvS

>BvS is for true DC fans
>but Superman and Batman aren't true to their comic counterparts
>NOT MUH

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>>85044531
People confuse his philosophy with Supes

>>85049791

>>85049791
>>but Superman and Batman aren't true to their comic counterparts

That's a complain Casuals have.

>>85045106
Adam West Batman movie.
Some pirates became anti matter through their own misdeeds, but Batman felt really bad about it.

>>85044531
So, if criminals just say Martha Snyderman will just fuck off?

>>85044531
Because he's Batman?

Are you asking from a genuine "why does he have to be the same as the comics" perspective or an autistic "I'm MAD that he doesn't kill people in the comics" perspective? Or are you just baiting?

>>85049989
Batman killed people in his original comics
You can't make that argument without sounding like an idiot to be honest

>>85050083
Until 1940. There's no argument against Batman killing in this movie, it's clear he didnt before metropolis battle and it's clear he won't keep doing it. The while thing was about the lowest point in bruce's career

>>85044531
Because it goes against his character? Batman is the only hero that has a no kill rule. Bat Of Murder.

>>85050083
If you honestly believe anyone is ever referring to the golden age of comics (Earth-2) Batman and Earth-1's no killing, then just fuck yourself right off now because nobody has time to waste on you.

>>85050264
>Because it goes against his character?

But that's the point. Batman lost his way and shit

>>85047988
The autistic one would be you, anon.

The idea should be that he's a contrast to Superman, who destroyed a city in MoS. Instead, Batman just comes off like a massive hypocrite when he kills people and destroys property like Superman.

>>85049306
Parademons are meat-robots.

>>85050319
It doesn't make for a good story when both characters in the title are assholes in a badly written movie.

>>85050264
Batman kills all the fucking time.

Remember DKR? "Rubber bullets. Honest."

Batman regularly beats people within an inch of their lives and effectively cripples them.

But he doesn't kill. Honest.

>>85050319
This is the first Batman story in this continuity. We have to live with this Batman for many sequels.

Starting with him having lost his way and then all of a sudden going back to him not killing anymore doesn't make sense. You can't become an un-murderer.

>>85050083
Did you know that in his original comics, Superman didn't fly?

>>85050380
Kek.

One day I'd love to see a live-action adaptation of a Superman that can't fly.

>>85048046
The difference is that every previous Batman has done it for no reason, which makes it worse. Snyder's Batman actually has a reason, which is why I prefer it.

>>85050379
Why not? You don't need to rise and fall, you don't need to start with the "happy" times, you are USED to that. Most movies do that.

>>85050366
But they are not assholes

>>85044531
EVERYTHING

>>85048326
actually i think it was tdkr

>>85044531
It explicitly states in the movie that Batman has gotten crueler over the years. When it first showed him kill in the movie that is the first time he's killed someone in-universe, the reason he didn't care was because he'd been preparing himself to kill Superman or die trying. Once he sees that Supes is a person and not just a monster and willingly sacrifices himself to save the world Bats decides to honor his memory by being better and never killing again. And he only killed in situations where it would be more difficult not to, if he really had no problem with killing he would have gone into the warehouse with guns.

What's hard to understand about this?

>>85050718

Because it pisses away the always interesting Batman/Superman dark/light dynamic in favor of a movie about a brooding plot device and a brooding sociopath throwing god-awful one-liners at each other.

You can recognize the intent of a story while also thinking it's crap, I don't understand why this fundamentally impossible for 4chan to understand.

>>85050877
>Because it pisses away the always interesting Batman/Superman dark/light dynamic i
That has been explored 100 times before. You just want more of the same.

>>85050083
So you're either baiting or retarded

>>85050934

>That has been explored 100 times before

In a live-action movie?

>You just want more of the same.

I mean we got 2.5 hours of Batwank and Superman being pushed aside as a plot device, that sounds like a lot of comics to me.

>>85050597
>Most movies do that.

There has not yet been a film continuity where he doesn't kill.

It would've been preferable to JUST ONCE have a film continuity that ATTEMPTS accuracy to the source material and has Batman actually act like Batman. Especially for their first attempt at a shared Justice League universe.

>>85050991
And we'll get that in the next movie.

>>85050991
>There has not yet been a film continuity where he doesn't kill.
I wasnt talking about Batman, i was talking about how pop corn movies usually focus in the big victories and adventures of the main characters instead of their darkest days. BvS was a revange tragedy, structured as an old school (things happen around the main characters instead of being done by them) tragedy.

We all want a simple adventure movie, but there's nothing worng with doing something really different, we will get more adventure movies, more detective and sci fi stuff. But BvS did something extremely brave for pop corn movie in 2016. Muh brooding isnt an argument, shitty edition and pace, destroying the great CGI by adding filters to make it look like a dream and too little action were the problems with the movie, not a superman that doubts himself or a Batman that fell from grace.

>>85044923
/thread

>>85051174
It was a story for Superman fans, despite him getting wrecked in the title fight. Superman's heroic nature, tactics, and indomitable will were all shown in this movie, as well as the HUGE impact he has in the universe. Look at Batman, Lex, even Wonder Woman and Aquaman. This universe was trash before Superman showed up. It's just like ours. I love how Snyder made him the reverse of Dr. Manhattan; he chose to cherish this planet instead of leaving it.

>>85045057
So you want new 52 batman?

>>85044944
This.

Wanna say Batman doesn't kill criminals because of his own psychological issues? Sure.

But claiming that he's doing it because of some moral high ground, while he acts as a vigilante, is nonsense.

>>85051696
And people like to focus os Clark doubting himself, when he always choose to help and sacrifice himself. He suffers when he fails and cares about every single life lost. He really cares and loves both humanity and the planet.

"this is my world, you are my world" defines superman extremely well.

>>85044531
Batman has a no killing mentality to cope with the fact that he's FUCKING INSANE. He believes he can rationalize fighting criminals, adopting children he puts in danger and wasting millions if not billions of his families money as long as he doesn't cross that line.

Because he's fucking crazy.

>>85051830
This meme. How come nobody ever accuses other heroes of being "insane"? It's always just Batman.

>>85051902
Because he witnessed his parents being murdered in front of him and as a result dresses like a bat?

Also, stop throwing meme around. If you hate it so much, stop fucking using it.

>>85045183
>the elseworld meme

>>85045646
are you fucking dumb? Are you retarded? read the anons whole post >>85045129

>>85051902
casuals, is that simple

>>85046463
>Hey let's bypass due process and just execute everyone you see commiting a crime

>>85044531
Nothing whatsoever

The issue was that it wasnt at all addressed in the script

Not even in the "Ultimate" Cut

It makes it all so clear that this was a last minute addition by Zack Snyder as he went to work on the action scenes and upped Batmans bloodlust.

You're telling me in the script, Superman gives Batman a 'warning' after seeing him MURDER members of a cargo convoy seemingly committing NO CRIMES AT ALL? That one guy's SEVERED HEAD is LITERALLY stuck in the Batmobile's grille and NO ONE MENTIONS IT.

So either the script writer is an idiot or Snyder is

>>85052154
>You're telling me in the script, Superman gives Batman a 'warning' after seeing him MURDER members of a cargo convoy seemingly committing NO CRIMES AT ALL?
That's proof they didnt die.

>>85052093
*tips fedora

Well considering it was his character arc in the movie to dial it down I cant really give it too much shit. Wasnt done well, but hes back at the no kill policy. Besides its nothing new to the character.

>>85052218

Nice answer casual.

>>85044843
>No, shut the fuck up. His no-killing rule was established early on

This is bullshit if you mean the comics. Batman was killing mother fuckers left and right in the early books.

>>85048125
This isn't real life.

>>85052607
Batman killing in the movie was fine, he had fallen from grace.

But shut up, i hate when casuals talk about him killing in the golden age. You probably never touched those comics.

Batman not killing makes perfect sense, especially after O'neil. And it has nothing to do with trauma or being insane

>>85044531
Batman was psychologically scarred by his parents death, the sight of dead bodies causes him to relive this trauma, voiding his bowels and bladder in terror as he falls to the ground unable to do anything. He protects himself from admitting this fear by constructing a psychological mechanism, his "Rule" no killing under ANY circumstance, because "it's too easy" and he needs to challenge himself as a paragon. Any sane man can see this assertion for what it is, a paper shell protecting a warped and fragile psyche from the truth.

>>85052313
[maximum fedora tipping]

>>85052313
>Nice answer
Wasn't a question, idiot.

>>85050264
So like every other live action Batman then, gotcha. Funny how ONLY NOW do people have a problem with it! Fuck off.

>>85053046
>>85053064
>>85053117


>casuals that believe memes

Nothing was wrong except that Batman looked like he ate a protein wedding cake.

>>85053174
It's because "Snyder" is a trigger word.

>>85053203
Why is it so hard for faggots like this to grasp the obvious implication of mental illness that exists throughout all interpretations of Batman?

>>85053437
Why is so hard to actually read comics?

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>>85053437
Next time you will say that batman is paranoid and post this image.

>>85053474
Killing Joke and Dark Knight Returns both heavily imply Batman is mentally unstable, can't you into implication?

>>85053595
Can you name 2 more casual books?

Also, that has nothing to do with the no killing rule. The no killing rule comes from Batman family, religious education, and eastern training.

You forgot to say
>muh bruce is the mask, batman is the real personality crap

>>85053672
> "lol nice try faggot but it doesn't match my head canon!"
KEK

>>85053308
Pretty much.

Whats funny about the whole "no kill rule" thing is it was created out of convenience. Just look at the old Batman films. For the most part he offs his rogues gallery, if you did that in comics you'd have to completely make new characters for him to fight.
They just created the whole "moralfag code" so that it made sense in the context of the comic stories themselves but yeah. It was done out of convenience

>2016
>the most obvious bait in the history of /co/ is still effective
And I though I might have missed something

what a fuck ugly cowl and texture. who thought they were okay?

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>>85047696
>Keaton Batman was ruthlessly murdering people way before this movie was a fucking thought. That dude was throwing motherfuckers off buildings and blowing them up with bombs and shit.
Yoiu are avoiding the problem. You can't say that Batman is "becoming" cruel when he is cruel in Snyder's universe all along. And even more so if Robin had been rounding around chopping people's heads off with a halberd.

Back when Batman Begins was about to come out, I got really hyped up for batman and rediscovered BTAS. this is turn lead me to look up the history of the character, and I discovered a website that had an article series called Comics 101. This would go over various aspects of comic characters. They had a 10 part batman series, and they mentioned 70's comics, like that of O'Neil and Englehart, revolutionizing the character.so I went out to discover these issues. Later on, when torrents for comics became more popular, I was able to get most of that era of bat issues between .cbrs and reprints.

And yes, Batman does kill quite often through circumstance in those comics. If they fall to their death trying to escape or lock themselves up with their own bomb,Batman doesn't risk his life to help them. . In one case, Batman straight up tossed a grenade at a fighter plane that was shooting at him and a few other men.

If you ask me, the reason why the NO KILL rule got hammered in so hard, was because writing made it so characters like the Joker did more and more extreme and heinous acts, but editorial still needed them alive for sales reasons. So, we now pretend that Batman has some autistic compulsion against killing, and ignore all circumstances otherwise. because we gotta have Joker on comic covers and T-shirts.

>>85044531
Part of what makes Jackie Chan such an endearing guy is in his movies he has a strict no killing policy. Which means he has to try harder in a fight and it shows. If he's fighting on a speeding boat and he's knocked someone near the edge he'll pull them back to keep them from falling over. That's cooler than just watching them fall.

>>85044923
Exactly. If he's okay with killing in this universe, it isn't logical for Joker to still be alive.

>>85053885
Everyone with eyes

>>85053931
>And even more so if Robin had been rounding around chopping people's heads off with a halberd.
Did he cut someones head in the movie? they said it? No? then shut up.

>>85053931
If you have to make shit up to prove your point then you don't have a point at all.

>>85054002
It's pretty logical, but you need to not be a dumbass: Batman started killing only in the last 18 months

>>85053963
>If you ask me, the reason why the NO KILL rule got hammered in so hard, was because writing made it so characters like the Joker did more and more extreme and heinous acts, but editorial still needed them alive for sales reasons. So, we now pretend that Batman has some autistic compulsion against killing, and ignore all circumstances otherwise. because we gotta have Joker on comic covers and T-shirts.
You read that wrong again.

Batman didn't protect his enemies, he hand them all to the control of the State. The fact is it isn't Batman's job to commit executions, the judiciary is suppose to. And the fact that Gotham's government is unwilling to give the Joker the Death Penalty is exactly the reason why Batman should keep the Joker alive.

If the government think Joker should live, it isn't Batman's position to argue otherwise. If they want him dead, they can kill him at any point when ever he gets recaptured. Not Batman's responsibility.

>>85054059
>If you have to make shit up to prove your point then you don't have a point at all.
How is the fact that Snyder Robin used a halberd as his weapon anything I made up?

>>85049173
This. Everyone puts the onus of killing the Joker on Batman when EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS A GUN AND THE LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY TO KILL HIM.

>>85054163

Nailed it. Batman operates outside the law but he still supports and believes in it. He just thinks most people are too incompetent to do the same.

>>85054365
Has there ever been a story where a random beat cop nails the Joker with a lucky shot or something? Similar to the BTAS episode where the random criminal "kills" Batman? Kind of curious now.

Hey, remember that one comic where the state sentenced the Joker to death and Batman broke him out of prison to save his life?

What? No?

Huh. Me either.

>>85054466
None that I know of.

>>85054474
Haha, that sounds silly. Why would Batman do that?

What a silly idea for a story.

>>85054546
Yeah, totally silly.
>Now you know why the Joker always escapes.

>>85054183
You're looking at a weapon he carries and assuming he's been killing with it, when it's neither been mentioned in movie or alluded to. You have no argument.

>>85054623
>You're looking at a weapon he carries and assuming he's been killing with it, when it's neither been mentioned in movie or alluded to. You have no argument.
The fact that you think a halberd is a non-lethal weapon is... funny. Yes, funny, that's the word.

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>>85054577
NO! BE QUIET! LALALALALALA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! MARY HAD A LITTLE LAMB LITTLE LAMB LITTLE LAMB! MARY HAD A LITTLE LAMB ITS FLEECE WAS WHITE AS SNOW!

>>85054546
>Haha, that sounds silly. Why would Batman do that?
>What a silly idea for a story.
Indeed. Narratively it just doesn't work, because that literally means Batman officially joins the Joker as an ally. There is no way around that.

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>>85053931
>implying Robin wasn't able to use this weapon non-lethally

Prove that he didn't. He only started his manslaughtering during his crusade against Superman.

>>85054656
Nigger you think just because it's a halberd that he had to have killed with it. You're an actual fucking retard.

>>85054712
>Prove that he didn't. He only started his manslaughtering during his crusade against Superman.
That said nothing about Robin.

>>85054656
Funny as Batman himself carries around razor tipped batarangs that he can stick into fucking walls yet never seems to kill anyone, even by mistake? Hmmmm..

>>85054474
Was that the one where he was sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit? Even the Joker deserves a fair trial.

>>85045137
That double standard makes no sense.

>>85054811
>Was that the one where he was sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit? Even the Joker deserves a fair trial.
Why the fuck do anyone need to FRAME the Joker for? Sounds more like Joker framed himself to make Batman assist in his escape.

>>85054764
>Batman's first priority is stopping criminals without killing them

>BUT HE LETS ROBIN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS

lol
Any proof that Batman would ever let Robin kill people while under his supervision?

Although, this would be hilarious. "I've got a no-kill code so I can't kill you. Robin, you're up!"

>>85045228
And how would him killing some criminals that the system fails to kill be any different? He'd be supplementing instead of replacing, too.

>>85044531
Because he didn't kill the Joker

>>85054836
>That double standard makes no sense.
It makes sense that it is the government's fault that they refuse to kill The Joker. It is absolutely not Batman's fault that Gotham City's laws wanted the Joker alive.

It would have made sense if Batman was the only person capable of killing him. But no. Joker could die easily while under custody, so it isn't up to Batman to pull the trigger.

>>85054893

Batman himself has already argued this in the comic multiple times.

The only people who demand Batman become a killer and dispose of the Joker are those that don't actually read comic books.

>Or they read Bendis.

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>people forget Batman became Batman because the cops in Gotham are corrupt, undermanned and outgunned

>>85054869
>And how would him killing some criminals that the system fails to kill be any different? He'd be supplementing instead of replacing, too.
System didn't fail to kill, system refuse to kill. If Batman want to replace the government then maybe he should start his own country.

If the government was unable to kill a metahuman who is near-immortal, Batman would likely be willing to supply the means to do the deed. But if the government REFUSE to kill the Joker, then it is not Batman's job to get his own hands dirty.

>>85054932
>>people forget Batman became Batman because the cops in Gotham are corrupt, undermanned and outgunned
Doesn't matter how corrupt the cops are, I don't think even other major supervillains want the Joker alive. So the only people refusing to kill him are the Gotham government.

So are there any stories which explain why the government doesn't enact the death penalty on the Joker? That would be an interesting one. Maybe some bleeding heart liberal who thinks it's unethical to kill him because he's "insane."

Nothing was wrong with it in the context in the movie

It makes perfect sense that after 20 years of fighting crime, with no other heroes in existence, and with increasingly futile results, that Batman would eventually just stop giving a shit about minimizing casualties, as he himself becomes closer and closer to the villains he's been going after.

It's literally the most logical progression of the character in a "real" setting that isn't hampered by childish ideals.

>>85055185
>So are there any stories which explain why the government doesn't enact the death penalty on the Joker?


there's this thing called corruption and extortion

>>85055185

the one comic with fat old guy batman

>>85054733
Is there a non-lethal way to use a battle axe?

>>85055263
That would make sense for the first maybe 5-10 years of Batman's career, but he should have gotten rid of them by that time, maybe gotten Jim Gordon or Harvey Dent (pre-Two Face) elected mayor or something.
>>85055265
What's this?

>>85055293
I know that you are a casual that doesnt read comics, but Gotham isnt a normal city.

>>85055361
le haunted spooky city meme

No, I just hate hack writing. This was an excuse for the whole "why does Gotham never seem to improve" and "why do the criminals always escape" meme. Batman SHOULD have a positive impact on the city. If he doesn't, the. The author is bad. You don't have to turn it into Metropolis lite, but give him a bone at least.

>>85055282
Hit them using the side part that isn't sharp.