RHATO REBIRTH

>>84933511
oh nooooo

I was also surprised how much I liked this issue. That being said, I don't expect the quality to maintain at all when we get into the anti trinity BS.

>>84933511
Just pray that Lobdell's editor keeps him on check or it will all go to shit a third time.

>>84933649
Nether Rh title were bad the hate for it is pure meme

>>84933511
I like that Jason is the only Robin with yellow cap.

>>84933511
>RHATO REBIRTH
THE DELEGATES, BATMAN

>>84933686
Stop.

>>84933919
He is right tho. There weren't the best comics ever, but they were also not as bad as some fans made it out to be.

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>>84933511
want me to storytim this?

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>>84935297
there is a big chance I suddenly just leave because the battery is fucking dying.

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>>84935318

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>>84935353

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>>84935382

>>84933607
Lobdell should just write flashbacks

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>>84935437

>>84934056
They were pretty poorly written. Bad plotting, overnarration, and some really cringey dialogue. The hate for it wouldn't be so bad if the vocal minority wasn't so eager to call everyone an SJW for not liking it.

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>>84935466

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>>84935505

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>>84935544

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>>84935567

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>>84935616

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>>84935640

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>>84935682

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>>84935748

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>>84935807

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>>84935825

>>84935851
Thanks anon.

>>84933686
I really didn't like Jason's characterization in it. I wanted him to be more genuinely unhinged instead of generic sarcastic anti-hero. But Jason has admittedly been written all over the map, anyway, so all Lobdell could do was to pile on his take.
This was all right, though very by-the-numbers too. But his Jason + Bruce emotional stuff has always been bretty gud.

>>84936315
I feel like as the series goes on, we'll see some of that unhinged nature of his come out, maybe even go full out Red Hood. That being said, I was very surprised with how good this issue was.

>>84933511
I really cant picture any voice but Jason o'mara with this batman specially with the dialogue in that scene.

>>84934056

They ruined Red Hood, Arsenal and Starfire. Easily the worst incarnation of the characters.

I seriously hope to never see a reference to Outcast again. Fuck, that was such an awful stupidity. I get angry whenever i remember it.

>>84936315

>But his Jason + Bruce emotional stuff has always been bretty gud.

It really isn't. In the previous RHatO out of nowhere Bruce was alright with Jason and him killing people while wearing his emblem. Jason, too, who still hated Batman and wanted nothing to do with Gotham anymore or Batman out of nowhere just became okay with Batman. All because of Death of the Family and the need to constant cross-overs between the Batfamily. Nothing was addressed.

>>84935851
good shit

>>84936937
Oh, yeah, actually, let me walk that back. Certain emotional beats between Bruce and Jason were good (like the "favorite memory" scene and him visiting Amnesiac!Bruce and embracing him), Bruce's tacit approval of his methods and the out-of-nowhere reconciliation were indeed terrible.

>>84935851
Why can't Lobdell write this well more often?

>>84937074

The popcorn memory was a bit cliche but i liked the meeting with amnesic Bruce in RH/A.

My main problem is that Lobdell can't develop characters for shit, it's always through flashback and infodumps, with any development happening off-panel. See Crux.

>>84933686
Nope, they were both pretty bad, though far from the worst title DC or Marvel had going at that time.

I did like the Rebirth issue. Is the artist staying for the rest of the book?

>>84937160
You phrased it better than I did. Yeah. I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't like his characterization, but that's exactly it. There is no depth or development, only walls of text.

>>84937535

For example Arsenal, in both RHatO and RH/A. You'd think that Roy recovery from his alcoholic past could be passed as development, but RHatO #1 already has Roy as clean, we're just shown his past through flashbacks.

Even Jason friendship with Starfire and Roy is already a thing by issue 2 of the comic, with Jason admitting to himself that he already likes them much to his disappointment. And of course Jason friendship with Starfire and Roy is shown through flashbacks. Jason already knew Roy and Starfire by issue 1, he went to rescue Roy with Starfire in issue 1 because of their past friendship.

There's also the fact that developments happen fast as fuck. Roy and Starfire went from fuck-buddies to a loving couple out of nowhere.

Red Hood is sincerely my favorite in the family.

Sentimental moments are some of the easiest to write. Peter Tomasi pumped out YEARS of shallow sentimental schlock in B&R and fooled most of you into thinking he was a decent writer. Steve 'Onslaught' Lobdell is still trash. The RH books are still trash. So was Teen Titans.

Fuck, why Jason Robin and Bruce's "golden memories" things make me so sad?
The ending of Under the Red Hood fucked me up in the ass big time.

>>84942786
>This is the best day of my life
Oh Jason...

>>84942786
It's really the tragedy of it all knowing that the happy young boy would die and come back as the Red Hood. Having it at the end after Jason and Bruce nearly kill each other and having all those raw emotions in the air is a real gut punch.

>>84942703
Nah, Tomasi is good.

>>84937160
Doesn't Lobdell use the Marvel method? That would explain the changing plots, all the info dumps, and why RHATO went from meh with Rocafort to flat out awful with other artists

>>84936937
I agree with all of that, I have no idea why people keep insisting that the DOTF fallout was the greatest Jason story of all time

>>84937703
That last one was because Lobdell got so much blowback from using slutty Starfire as shock value, and had no plans to follow it up (despite some insisting that it was a "plot hook")

>>84942786
I feel like this issue didn't do enough to show us why Bruce is so distrustful of Jason. The main drive of this issue was the contrast between their past and current relationship, and the UTRH segment was only briefly glossed over. Instead of showing why they're at odds, Jason just says so

>>84943086
To be slightly fair issues 19-31 weren't Lobdell they were Tynion and Pfeifer. Fuck Tynion for having Lady Shiva job so hard to Jason

>>84943362
As much as people shit on Lobdell at least his runs were readable, unlike the ones in between.

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How come Jason Todd can't stop whinging about the time he got skull-crowbarred while Stephanie Brown literally couldn't give half a fuck less?

>RHATO

Every time I read this I get reminded of Ted Cruz.

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>>84943599
She was redeemed through the power of love.

>>84943362
And Jasonfags loved it because it somehow proves that Jason was the greatest fighter in the world

>>84943599
Because her death was retconned into never happening. Jason just got better.

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>>84936884
>They ruined... Arsenal... worst incarnation of the characters.
I'll criticize Lobdell as much as the next man, but that just isn't true.

>>84943124
So which one is the greatest one?

>>84943362
>>84943518

Pfeifer was fine. Like his Lobo arc. Pfeifer was fine even in Teen Titans.

>>84944964
Under the Red Hood
His three-parter in Morrison's B&R
Dark Knight Last Crusade
Hell, even his one chapter in Hush even if it was a fakeout.It accomplished exactly what it needed to do regarding a confrontation between Jason and Bruce

>>84945051
Pfeiffer's stuff was on the lower side of average

>>84935353
>>84935382
I never read Lobdelll until I got to the arcs he wrote for the Superman books, and then when I read Superboy and the related TT books, I understood what people meant. Never bothered with RHATO or any other Jason only books but these just strike me as an attempt at nostalgia with an edge - I'm assuming the actual 1990s era didn't start with Todd trying to steal the tires of the batmobile.

>>84935466
This, OTOH, is well handled, given what I know about RH (again, just in passing, not first hand)
and I assume this >>84935640 and >>84935778
will pay off some how but as someone who hasn't read this title in the past but is a DC reader, I'm not sure this issue gets me to read this run.

A lot of that is Lobdell to be honest although part of it is that Batman in Gotham and Gotham itself has never had any appeal.

At least the art was nice.

>>84948406
The good parts of this issue were the flashbacks. The present day stuff was just kind of clunky

>>84935851
Niether the Prince or the Art of War are that big.

>>84933511
That was really good issue. My favorite out of all bat-books.

>>84948406
Post Crisis Jason did first meet Batman by stealing the tires off of the batmobile. If I remember correctly he had gotten two of them and was coming back for the other two, but by then Bruce was back and kind of laughing at the fact that someone had just stolen the tires off of the fucking batmobile. There was also some stuff with an evil orphanage between that and Jason getting adopted by Bruce, but that's been ignored in every retelling of his origin that I know of.

>>84949584
Truthy, I have the pocket-sized versions of both (Christmas gifts). But they do sell versions of Art of' that have pictures, so...

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>>84935382
Hungry comes from your body

>>84951547
I actually found it to be the weakest of the Bat books, mainly because the other books that came out this week were more interesting. This wasn't too bad, though.

>>84952423
Batman rebirth issue was bad (but the series got better now)
Detective Comics is meh
Nightwing was boring and I decided to drop it
Batgirl & BoP was meh
And I haven't read Batgirl yet
Red Hood & TO was what I enjoyed the most

>>84933686
>slutfire
>good
if you want to see slutery done right go read up on nightmare nurse maybe then you will get over your delusions

>>84933511
Lobdell is rather Tomasi-Esque when it come to BatDad.

My primary concern is Bizarro talk and Amazon magic is gonna turn this book into a shit show.

>>84935599
Care bare stare

>>84944510
Granted that lead to best version of Arsenal

Bizarro Arsenal who shoots dead cats at people

>>84952858
Lobdell is good with BatDad flashbacks, but he has just a couple of tricks. Tomasi is better overall with them

>>84933649
Christ if you believe Lobdell's con statements that he's essentially a Muppet for the Editors to write through I hope the current editor doesn't say a damn thing.

See the Culling for exhibit A

>>84952858
Tomasi wrote a really terrible batman.

I enjoyed both of Red Hood books and I'm looking forward to this one.

>>84953007
hmmmm kinda

On Batman and Robin, he was writing a Damian book
On Detective Comics, he wrote Jim Gordon
On the Darkseid one-shot, he wrote arrogant Batgod

Has he really written just Batman?

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Batman... The delegates, Batman...

>>84935807
>If you take one life, for whatever reason
Oh fuck off Bruce.

>>84935807
>"...I'm coming for you"
Like you have the heart to hunt him down, Brucie.

>>84944070
Jasonfag here, not really.

No.

>>84935748
BANE?

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>>84952858
>>84952982
The mans always done a good Batdad.

>>84933851
Oh yeah, all the other robins have a black capes while Jason is the only one with yellow cape.

I like that too.

yip

>>84935851

Wow, what the fuck.

Why was this issue so good?

>>84959717
I'm guessing the art. The art so fucking good compared to Nightwing, Batgirl and Titans for me.

Don't know about others nor the wiriting, but the art got me.

>>84935851
Shit... that's good... that's damn good.

>>84953122
>Has he really written just Batman?

The whole stages of grief arc and that was a steaming pile of shit

>>84935411
Love this page!

>>84933511
Currently the only good Rebirth, but I just can't get into DC in general though.

>>84959717
flashbacks, artwork, maybe better editing

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Based Soy

>>84961678
It wasn't just the flashback because the bar scene was really good.

>>84935748
Why does tumblr think that this page proves Jason is bi?

>>84963869
Tumblr think everything confirms their shitty headcanon. I also saw one that said because he says "pasty white ass" >>84935682 he's apparently Latino.

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>>84964050
>Jason Todd
>Latino name

>>84964116
I just like the idea that they think DC will ever make the angry Robin who kills people, and got the job by stealing a minority. Or that apparently it would be a good representation for that community.

>>84963869
Attempting to mimic their mental gymnastics, I'm going to say the fact that he rejected perceived sexual advance on the basis of not being into S&M instead of saying he isn't into dudes is "proof" that he is into dudes.
Completely ignore the fact that it was a joke about the mask.

>>84964190
Damian is an angry Robin who kills people and he's a minority

>>84964555
Damian's mostly white. He's like what 25% Arabic 25% Chinese ?

>>84964555
I was arguing more that making the kid who grew up in a slum to criminal parents along with the other stuff I mentioned Latin or black pretty much ticks every stereotype you can think of.
I guess the best comparison would be if they made Damian a suicide bomber or something.

>>84933511
This is is second most cherished moment btw

>>84952940
Really?
Wasn't he just pissed off all the time and snapping at everything?

>>84963869
I actually wouldn't mind a bi Jason, but I wouldn't trust a hack like Lobdell to handle it

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>>84935382

>>84963869
Someone suggested it on CBR and the Jason Todd thread had a huge freak out.

In honesty, Jason would be the best Robin candidate to make bi. Dick is always going to have Babs or Kori or Helena. Tim is tied to Steph. Damian is too young. Jason has no love interests, so pairing him with a dude makes perfect sense.

>>84965174
After he threw away his best memory, wasn't his second favorite being in an incubator?

>>84943798
Dahnuld, the delegates...

>>84965604
Who'd they pair him with though? I'd say Roy if they were still together, but his most popular fan parings in descending order are Tim, Dick and Bruce, which while all are hot have fuck all chance of actually happening.

>>84965763
An OC?

>>84965604
>Have trouble getting laid.
>Get laid with some hot milf, but still no long term love interest
>Suddenly everyone wants to shove cock up your butt because you don't get laid enough to be straight according to them

Jason's life is suffering

>>84965784
Then that wouldn't please his fangirls.

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>>84965868
>Jason's life is suffering
You don't say

>>84933511
I've never really understood the point of Red Hood (Jason Todd) I mean, he's basically just Deathstroke right, but less cool and kinda dumber? So he's like halfway between Deathstroke (perfection) and Deadpool (autism). It's kinda cool that they've found a way to keep all the robins from ending up the same, but really this character is just making Batman look worse.

>>84965974
That would what is generally known as corroborating evidence.
The stupid thing is he already has love interests. They just aren't well known superheroes so apparently they don't count.

>>84966013
Pretty much, but having him in the criminal underground fits well, given his background.

>>84965763
Constantine

I dunno

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>>84966013
>Deathstroke
>Perfection
>Jobs to a bunch of teenagers

>>84965763
Roy could always be his ex

when you guys say "jobs", "jobbing" etc., are you saying that the character is just doing busywork for other characters rather than something important to the plot?

>>84966165
Such is life of supervillain.

>>84966243
It means losing a fight for meta/plot reasons. Might be video game terminology?

>>84966276
or I guess it could be from wrestling now that I think about it

>>84966243
Wrestling term.
It's when a clearly superior opponent loses to a weaker fighter for the sole purpose of making the weakling look good.

>>84966276
>>84966305
>>84966316

Wow I wasn't even close. Thanks for explaining though, it makes a lot of sense now

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>>84966216
I hope Jason and Roy cross paths again

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>>84967154

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>>84967522

>>84967564
I still don't know what Roy's endgame was here. at best he hates pubic hair, at worst he was actually trying to kill Jason in the shower.

>>84967154
>>84967522
>>84967564

So let me get this straight; Roy is no longer a "best friend with homosexual undertones" to Dick?

Dick - Wally
Jason - Roy
Tim - Conner
Damian -....black wally?

am i listing the bros right?

>>84967675
He was testing a new invention.

>>84967842
Damian and Jon will soon be the "best" of "friends"

>>84967842
Don't be surprised if Abnett ignores everything and restore Dick/Roy.

>>84967923
So far he seems more interested on pairing Roy with Donna

>>84967848
>An invention on his unsuspecting naked friend
>An invention on his unsuspecting naked friend that spits fire.

>>84967923
Dick/Wally is the more likely bromance isn't it?

>>84967959
Yeah. He dropped Wally/Lilith fast, as well.

>>84967978
Well, the invention was supposed to be a fireproof teflon body spray.

>>84968017
She still seemed like she wanted to fuck though.

>>84967873

welp i totally forgot about jon for a minute.

Jay & Roy are the "failed sidekick" duo, Tim & Conner are the "next world's finest", Damian & Jon are "heir to the throne".

Dunno what to think of Dick & Wally though.

>>84968158
>Dunno what to think of Dick & Wally though.

Dickbats best bats, Wally best Flash

>>84967842
I'd say Damian - Jon Kent

>>84963869
Does tumblr really think that Lobdell is capable of writing something like that with subtlety?

>>84968208
Yeah, "the ones who surpassed their mentors". Now that I think about it, those two are the only two younger heroes who became comparable to their mentors somehow (at least inuniverse wise)