Killing Joke movie creators get called out at the Panel

>Gizmodo

not even once

>>84791888
But that's how you are supposed to deal with hecklers, anon.

>>84791973
>hecklers
dude the adaptation was bad. it's not even heckling, it's just the truth.

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Azzarello continues to be one of my favorite people, even if I didn't like the movie.

>an infamous moment widely considered to be one of the lowest points in Batgirl’s 40+ year history.

Okay

>>84792029
Too bad he can't write women for shit.

>>84792113
His Diana was fine after the first ten issues.

>A Joker cosplayer asked the writers why downplay Barbara Gordon, such a strong female character,

The heckle was embarrassing even though the film was shit. But Azarello replying like some sorta tough guy is laughable.

>>84791888
Jesus. What a putrid shit show

>>84791888
>want to add controversy on top of the already existing controversy
>get pissy when people respond poorly to your controversy
have nothing but amusement for these kinds of situations desu
Azz belongs at marvel

>" Learning the heckler was a reporter for a website that is behind a narrative is troubling"

Its not a narrative, it's your quote . Jesus.

>No video

Why should I care?

Are people still mad that Batgirl was crippled by Joker?
I legitimately don't understand that, it doesn't demean her as a character. Jason Todd was fucking murdered by the Joker.

>>84792868
No, they are upset and the shit Batgirl prologue and her relationship with Batman in the first half of the movie. None of it needed to be in a fucking Killing Joke adaptation.

>>84792429
>http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-killing-joke-movie-is-a-disaster-right-down-to-its-1784176711
Anyone who doesnt like this movie is a stupid SJW.
Us true fans who arent afraid of something brave love it.

>>84791888
>io9
>no archive

Nice advertisement.

>The bad side of that is that we get to like her so much that when The Killing Joke part of the story happens, it’s, like, “Oh, no!”, because we really like her.

Timm is talking out his ass. They made Batgirl an unlikable Jason Todd type in this story. They even have a two bit thug attempt to rape her for added "ow the edge" value.

>>84793095
>They even have a two bit thug attempt to rape her for added "ow the edge" value.
You can't tell me that doesn't sound like something Moore would do. He loves putting rape in his stories.

>>84793204
To his own characters sure, but I don't think he'd do it in a Batman story.

Speaking of Moore, I'm starting to get behind his insistence his comics shouldn't be translated to film. The dialogue lifted from the comic sounds awful in the film.

>>84792974
>SJWs hate it so I must love it
Just how cancerous can you get?

>>84791888
>io9
ugh... could you not?

>DC cuntpunts tumblr again
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why DC is the best.

>>84793353
>To his own characters sure

Swamp Thing was raped

>>84792868
They're mad that she fucks batman.

>>84792868
No people are mad that this is one of the shittest Barbaras ever and that their first instinct when making a prologue focused on Batgirl was to make it about how much she wants to fuck Batman.

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>>84795925
>Barbara prefers Bruce to Dick
Farewell, old memes.

It was Rich Johnston guys, he was the heckler.

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>“There’s clearly an unstated attraction between the two of the characters from the very beginning and I think it’s there in the comics. If you go back and look at the Adam West show, its’ there in the Adam West show,” said Timm. “It’s subtle, but to me it’s always been there.”

What the fuck is wrong with Bruce Timm?

>>84793095
>>84796039
>hating Timm
Kids today.

>>84795446
and punches random people on the street to show how tough she is.

>>84796039
So he ships it because of the Batman 66 show and comics from the 70s where Barbara had a crush on Batman and Batman didn't return her feelings?

>>84795363
he also raped Constaintine

Isn't Oracle like Batman's support?
Does Babs have recordings of Bruce panting?
Why would you keep a crazy bitch around?

>>84792072
>Batgirl isn't allowed to have sex

What is with feminists and numales being so against sex and sexual things?

>>84796039
He project into Barbara (both are crazy Batman's fans, both want to fuck Batman)

>>84796236
He's talking about the crippling.

so what y'all are saying is this movie is somehow even worse than the other DC animated movies?

>>84796266
Her being crippled was literally the best thing that ever happened to her.

>>84796269
Pretty much.

>>84796269
hey bad blood was actually okayish/mediocre due to how little focus damian and bruce got compared to the other movies

but yes TKJ is pretty damn bad

>>84796039
He actually knows stuff and didn't start reading comics with Morrison's Dickbats and then other garbage with Dick so he knows the Babs/Dick is a meme

>>84796296
>>84796331
Good. Killing Joke is a trash story already, it deserves to be trash for the casuals too.

>>84796331
>it had muh lesbian meme character! so much better

kys

Azzarello getting straight up mad up in here.

>>84796380
>>84796412
stay triggered memelord

>>84796236
She's allowed to have sex, just not with someone who's more of a father to her then a casual fuckbuddy.

>Azzarello, the man who singlehanded destroyed Rorschach and the Comedian with Before Watchmen and the inventor of IT'S TIME TO SHIT, trying to play the badass

I'm so not surprised he wrote this. This was a terrible adaptation and he's a terrible 2edgy writer.

>>84792072
I thought the lowest point was the time Batgirl was drugged by Deathstroke and made to be a killer, her worst nightmare?

Oh wait, the only Batgirl that matters is Barbara.

>>84796126

Constantine is his creation

>>84796524

Batman was just 6 years older than Barbara.

I don't know why Batman fucking Barbara is bad but Barbara fucking Dick is okay, when Barbara WAS 7 YEARS OLDER THAN DICK.

>>84796039
He's at least right that Barbara was going to be used as a LI for Batman in the Adam West show, but that's not the case in the actual comics.

This is basically the equivalent of when people think that "the real Batman" is the one from BTAS, but 30 years prior.

>>84796126
When did Moore rape Constantine?

>>84796236
When her entire character revolves around wanting to fuck Batman then yes there's a problem

Doesn't help that she was incredibly violent in it and that's another poor choice considering Barbara as Batgirl was never that violent

>>84796641
Whenever you aren't looking.

I had no problem whatsoever with the plot, but production-wise the whole thing just sucks. The animation, the direction, the voice acting, it's all garbage. It actually looks worse than some DCAU episodes. How is that even possible?

>>84796573
>Oh wait, the only Batgirl that matters is Barbara.

Did New 52 not make that clear?

>>84796725
DC's animated movies haven't been the same since DKR part 1 and 2 bombed

>>84796573
>Oh wait, the only Batgirl that matters is Barbara.
Duh, she's the only one that has ever appeared outside of comics and DC put her back in the suit.

>>84796750
How? TDKR was fucking amazing. Part 1 alone is on the same level as Phantasm, maybe even slightly higher.

>>84796883
He mad.

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>>84791888

>>84796912
>looks like hipster scum
>talks like a real man
I think I'll read his books.

Why are Dickfags so easily triggered?

>>84796883
I agree they're great, but they bombed horribly in sales. My unsubstantiated theory is that splitting it into 2 parts turned a lot of people off.

>>84796269
It's fucking dreadful. Babs spends half of it just pining for the Batcock.

>>84796980
The question is why are you

>>84796725
I agree, Conroy was especially awful in this and for the life of me I can't understand why, he's so good in everything else but here I think a random guy on the street could've done almost as good a job.

>>84796980
Go to bed, Timm.

>>84796380
Timm was the one who started DickBabs, and de-aged her.

>>84796980
>Only Dickfags think this is a terrible idea

I want this meme to end

>DC's animated movies will never be good again
I want to die

>>84796039
Azzarello came up with the idea for "lol teh controvery", and Timm okayed it, and now Timm is just falling on the sword for it

>>84797101
You and your maymay should die, indeed.

>>84796598
neither of those are true for any relevant continuity today

>>84797133

Theyonly changed the 7 year gap between Dick and Barbara in 2006. Even in Batgirl: Year One, that was published a bit earlier, Barbara was still some years older.

>>84792307
Hecklers ARE pussies. They hide behind a wall of faces and talk big as if they're doing something monumental or bold. Kind of like anonymous, but in person and not online which makes anonymous that much more pathetic.

>>84797109
Nah, they all talked about it together, it's all their faults. I don't know how you can look at Timm's past output and think "yeah this was all Azz" when clearly he had a hand in this.

Why does Hamill sound so bad in this? I don't mind the Joker having a husky voice, Mark's older and it's to be expected, but his delivery is way WAY off in a lot of these scenes. He rushes through the joke at the end like he's on his way out the door, and there's no emotion during his final scenes except generic pissed offness when the panel art in the comic clearly showed the Joker as being sad.

>>84797133
My mother was ten years younger than my father when they enloped and got married in the late 80's. I also had a close church friend who did the same thing

Love knows true age anon...

>>84797180
Azarello please go and stay go. Threatening a legitimate criticism only puts the audience on the side of the heckler and shows that entertainer put no real thought or reasoning into their entertainment.

>>84797195
Yeah. I don't know who directed everyone in this, but they need to be kicked in the ribs.

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>>84796039

>>84797195
>Why does Hamill sound so bad in this? I don't mind the Joker having a husky voice, Mark's older and it's to be expected, but his delivery is way WAY off in a lot of these scenes.
He purposefully chose to play down this version of the Joker to reach a darker tone. He says so in an interview.

>>84797133
neither is this movie.

I really don't understand all this "the movie was shit!!!!" stuff.

Aside from the intro it was pretty much a word for word adaptation. The intro really triggered people that bad?

The only complaint I agree with is that the art was bad, it really was bad and that is sad especially considering the comic is so beautiful but I still thought it was a decent movie overall.

>>84797261
See this is what I'm talking about. You are the pussy of pussies. You wouldn't have the balls to say shit at that panel. You would just come online later and blog about it. Admit it.

>>84797303
The intro is nearly half the movie

>>84797303
the intro is very bad, the animation is pretty shitty, every voice actor but conroy and hamill phoned it in. and conroy and hamill are getting old

cut the intro out and it's a 7/10 movie, but with the intro it's like a 4

>>84797303
What do you expect? On the internet, things are either perfect or complete garbage.

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You are at comic-con and this guy slaps a batgirl cosplayer's ass.

What do?

>>84797303
I honestly didn't mind the art, but this is one of the few times I could kinda tell how bad the animation was.
>>84797280
Which is fine, but I found his delivery of the joke at the end to have no real decent flow. Although, one could argue that's the point, and it's supposed harken back to him being a failed comedian pre insanity.

>>84797361
>very voice actor but conroy and hamill phoned it in.

Joker and Batman are like 95% of TKJ (if we're ignoring the prologue)

>>84797346
>>84797361
What is so bad about the intro exactly? I really couldn't give less of a shit that Bruce and Barbra fucked why does that upset people so much?

>>84797385
Ask why ZZ Top is in such poor condition

>>84797385
Nothing. It was just sexual harassment

>>84797361
>very voice actor but conroy and hamill
Conroy was the worst of the lot by far, especially considering his talent and what he's done in the past

>>84797172
In Batgirl Year One, she was maybe 2-3 years older, certainly not 7. The gap would have been 19 and 16, just enough to be a considerable age gap as a teenager, but for them to be practically the same age in their 20s

>>84797361
I don't know. I kinda liked Gordon's voice.

>>84797424
>I really couldn't give less of a shit that Bruce and Barbra fucked
This is the entire focus of the intro.

>>84797443

Yes, the Batgirl: Year One was the first time Chuck Dixon reduced their age and then after Infinite Crisis they retconned for them to be the same age.

But before that Barbara was 7 years older.

>>84796671
I can't imagine John being against it

>>84797424
It tries to give Barbara more prominence in the story, but all it does is define her actions mainly around banging Batman

>>84797441
I did think Conroy sounded off at the beginning but he got better as it went on.

>>84797391
Personally I had no issues with Hamill's performance at all and I thought him and Conroy both did great at the end. The art/animation lets down the ending a bit I mean it looks too plain but their performances were good I thought.

>>84796598
Because older girl younger boy is my fetish

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>>84791888
>first comment begins with "Ugh"
Have these people become caricatures of themselves?

>>84797424
>Barbara's character was complete ass
>think Simone Batgirl levels of violence from her
>she did nothing but pine for Batman's cock like a needy emotional teenage girl
>then became a jilted lover when he regretted it
>assaulted an innocent man telling his girlfriend to stop being clingy because it hurt Barbara's feelings
>IT WAS JUST SEX PLS TALK TO ME AGAIN ;_; ;_;
>Batman fucking one of his students is gross
>Tara did an awful job
And then there's the thing where they did it for controversy's sake, and there is how tone deaf they are because her character revolving around wanting to bang Batman is not a good look when giving her prominence or introducing her to the viewers

People complaining are tumblrtards.
Moore is shit.
Azz is based.

>>84797504
She literally bangs him and leaves him because she realizes Bruce is a completely shitty person. She's kind of the ideal batfag. She finally has a real taste of him, then realizes he's shit and ditches that fucker.

>>84797490
The age gap was left ambiguous. Whenever they interacted, they did so as peers/friends, and the age gap was never clarified. Anyone who read a story with these two would have assumed that they were close in age. Hell, even Black Canary, who was older than Barbara, had the hots for Nightwing.

>>84797607
>Moore is shit

When will this meme die?

>>84797504
What I got out of the intro was Barbra faces Joker lite and decides to back out after seeing what it's like to deal with someone like that and how they can make you loose control.

Them fucking was just whatever I really didn't care.

>>84797443
Wasn't Dick still high school age and Babs was getting ready to graduate college in Batgirl Year One?

>>84797646
>hurr durr the commie rapemaster is a good writer

>>84797620
So it was just a retelling of Timm's BTAS romance then? Bruce was pretty much a steaming pile of shit to those around him in that.

>>84797334
The Irony.

>>84797599
>people can't use "ugh" anymore without autist on a Chinese story tapestry forum getting triggered

>>84797705
>So it was just a retelling of Timm's BTAS romance then?
Not really because Babs could still walk in TAS.

>>84797607
>Moore is shit.

You overplayed your hand, it's too obvious this is bait. Also tumblr hates Moore, so that doesn't fit in with your narrative either.

>>84797676
Yes that's why the ages were left ambiguous

Barbara was SMART and CLEVER so she got to college and graduated early
And Dick's age was never really stated in Robin Year One nor how much time passed between that and Batgirl Year One

>>84797676

Yes. The retcon only hit hard after Infinite Crisis.

>>84797676
She's always been portrayed as having skipped a few years, she lived at home, and she was too young to get into the FBI, so she'd be around 19. She thought Dick was a bit young, but she wasn't creeped out by him.

>>84797195
>>84797280
I thought Hamill was perfect, him talking so fast-paced at the end was a problem, but that's the directors fault, even if it was Marks idee. I mean, you're the director, you're supposed to figure out how to make this shit the most dramatic.

>>84797303
The intro takes up half of the fucking movie and has absolutely nothing to do with The Killing Joke. It doesn't set up any themes that will be explored with the Joker later on and it generally weighs the movie down by feeling unnecessary and like filler. It feels like it should've been in a completely different movie; maybe a Batgirl: Year One story. The stupid Babs/Bruce stuff doesn't even come back later; you'd think it was introduced to make it seem like Batman has a personal stake in this and he's going after the Joker to avenge Barbara, but that's not the case either. It was a pointlessly stupid opening and it made me wonder if the director and Azzarello wanted to turn TKJ into an Oracle origin story instead of a Joker one.

And aside from that... Shit, what can you say that hasn't already been said? The animation is cheap looking and ugly, which is just bizarre since this is the studio who made the beautifully animated TDKR, Hamill and Conroy aren't given good direction so they sound flat, the atmosphere feels more actiony than melancholic and ominous, etc.

The intro is only half of it. Sad thing is, they could've done something amazing with that first 30 minutes. Maybe used it to do an extended origin for the Joker that shows Gotham through his perspective when he's still sane, something to set up his character and foreshadow what would happen in the future, but nope. They took the lazy way out and instead of nabbing then SJW points, it backfired spectacularly.

The stupid as shit OTP they had between batman and batgirl was so stupid and in no way fit The Killing Joke in any way.

>>84797653
>What I got out of the intro was Barbra faces Joker lite and decides to back out after seeing what it's like to deal with someone like that and how they can make you loose control.

That would have been a much better arc if the intro hadn't been muddled with her complaining to her gay BFF about relationship problems, beating up a random guy for arguing with his girlfriend, angst-fucking Batman on a rooftop, etc

>>84797750

>Barbara was SMART and CLEVER so she got to college and graduated early

No, it was because Chuck Dixon didn't knew he could retcon their age gap.

But then INFINITE CRISIS happened and that gave the writers perfect opportunity to retcon the characters continuity, so they went and made both her and Dick the same age in NIGHTWING.

>>84797765

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The writers kept her canon as it was after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. So she was still 7 years older than Dick for the longest time. They just didn't pointed that out.

The age gap was only retconned in 2006.

>>84797676
When she's applying to the FBI, she saqys she's taken pre-law, but the interviewer also comments on how young she is, so I think she's supposed to be vaguely college aged; I'd guess around 20, while Dick was ~16.

>>84797690
rasputin wasn't a commie was he?

>>84797830
>I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The writers kept her canon as it was after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. So she was still 7 years older than Dick for the longest time. They just didn't pointed that out.
>The age gap was only retconned in 2006.


In Batgirl #45, Barbara says she was 18 when she became Batgirl, and that came out in 2002.

>>84797808
Yea I'm not saying that stuff wasn't stupid but idk it didn't make me hate the movie I mean it's still a good story.

But yea the gay friend and fucking Bruce was stupid I mean I think they put it in to make it more "adult" and you know it's 2016 so you have to have a gay guy.

>>84797424
It drags on for way too long, it has NOTHING to do with TKJ to the point where it actually seems jarring when the Joker shows up because it didn't seem like a Joker story at all at first, and it doesn't explore Barbara's character in a meaningful way. Instead of showing the triumph and joy that is Batgirl in a way that makes her eventual assault so brutal and tragic in hindsight, because it robs us of someone who had so much potential and ambition, it tries to do this big lazy romance with her and Bruce that just makes it seem like her entire identity as a crimefighter and a person revolves around him fucking her.

It's hilariously mysoginitic and one of the few instances where the SJWs have every right to bitch. And it drags the larger narrative down, so it's extra shitty.

>>84797841

She became Batgirl with 25. That was the canon thing until 2006.
Dick became Robin with 8 and then 10 (post-ZERO HOUR), and met Batgirl when he was 18.

After INFINITE CRISIS they were the same age, but they never explained how the age thing worked with the past. It was just a retcon to stop make things weird. There were plans to have their get married.

>>84792003
but thats not what the heckler was heckling about yo

>>84797830
In the Birds of Prey: Batgirl/Catwoman mini, she said she was 19. And Dick said he was thinking about colleges, which would mean he's a year or two from graduating high school.

>>84797953

Seriously? Wasn't that Cass run? I don't remember that. I just remember that the writers would just not touch on the age thing.

>>84797623
It wasnt left ambigious friend, its stated

>>84791888
Wait thats there problem with the scene that it was problematic not that it was fucking retarded

>>84797964
>She became Batgirl with 25. That was the canon thing until 2006.
Nope.

>>84797953

IN Batgirl Year One, she comments that it's been enough years that she doesn't feel weird seeing him as 'cute', so I'd have to assume he was in his mid teens.

>>84791888
>linking gawker
>linking a website with so little credibility and rice-paper thin and flimsy journalism and ethics that the likes of Hulk Hogan successfully sued them.

>>84798017
writers were intentionally ambiguous on ages so that they could portray characters as young or as old as they wanted without technically retconning or screwing up the chronology

>>84798004

Really? When was that? 2000 or something? If so, it might have been close to BATGIRL: YEAR ONE, when Dixon made them closer in age but her still somewhat a bit older.

>>84798017
>Wasn't that Cass run?
Yeah but Barbara played a major part in that.

>>84792974
I liked it but i do think the sex was stupid
It was sure as hell not problematic though

>>84798079
It was in 2003, though it actually contradicts Batgirl Year One a bit, as she's still in college during the mini.

So I'll ask straight up since we're talking about it; When was the first time Dick and Babs expressed genuine romantic interest in each other? An early comic run? The cartoon?

>>84798057

Yes, dude. Her age remained the same until BATGIRL: YEAR ONE, where Dixon close the age gap a bit but not much because MUH CONTINUITY and then after INFINITE CRISIS it was revealed that they're both the same age. I forget where it was that it was first started, if it was in NIGHTWING or some of those SECRET FILES & ORIGINS thing.

Let me search it up where it was first revelead that they were the same age.

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Surely I'm not the only one who finds this whole thing really funny, right? Everyone looks like a moron and everyone loses. It's hilarious.

>>84798183

No Man's Land, both in NIGHTWING and BIRDS OF PREY, since Dixon was writing both.

That's where the pair really became a romantical one.

>>84797195

I thought he did well but I guess I'm too biased to judge

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>It's not true enough to the source material
>It's too true to the source material
>It doesn't portray Barbara in a positive light
>It portrays Barbara in too positive of a light
>The prologue was unnecessary and not very well written
>The prologue was absolutely necessary and cleared a lot of things up
So is it safe to say that this film has been polarizing? Or not polarizing enough?

>>84797602
I will say, despite the poor pacing and writing, I agree somewhat with Timm's assessment of Babs Batgirl. Pretty much all Batfamily members have reasons to want to fight. They've all experienced the "abyss" to reference the movie. Barbara literally does it for fun and clearly has a thing for Batman, otherwise why choose the Batgirl monikor?

>>84798183
BTAS had them dating in college, with neither of them aware that they were Robin/Batgirl

Then Dixon had them a year into Nightwing, and then had them date when he started writing Birds of Prey

>>84798183
Somewhere in Birds of Prey.

>>84793095
Im not auctualy sure he was going to rape her.
It undeniably seems like that at first but thinking about it he dident seem the type he wanted to win her he would have gone no further then a kiss.

>>84791888

>men calling each other pussy

Why men hate other men?

>>84798275
I think that basic premise works, but the sloppy writing and the extraneous CW drama hurts it

>>84796641
No he means swamp thing raped constintine

>>84798286

BIRDS OF PREY #8, 1999, it's where the first kiss happened. Well, the one that counted, at least.

>>84796524
Batman is not really like a father to babs. Bruce is barely a father figure to most of his robins.

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>>84798183
>>84798244
There's a lot of precedent for it from the 70s

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>>84798377

>>84798261
I haven't seen a single person say that the prologue was necessary yet or that it's too true to the source material. But maybe I just don't get around enough.

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>>84798406

>>84798377
>>84798406
>>84798427

That was just teasing, though. The writers never intended anything more than that. Dick had a girlfriend in college.

>>84798427
>as a big sister

Jeez, and people think Babs/Bruce is creepy.

>>84798406
there were actually letters from people who were disgusted by this due to barbara being older than him

I saw the movie last night, it was good.

What the fuck is everyone bitching about?

>>84798485

Yeah I never liked the dick/babs pairing either. I always felt it was worse than the bats/babs pairing I dont like that ship either.

>>84798413
We've been having these threads every few hours for the past two days, I'm not surprised you've missed a few of those comments. Anyway, here's someone in another thread mentioning the dialogue was too similar to the comic >>84788744

>>84798485
>>84798516

and yet people were okay with Earth 2 Helena flirting with Dick

>>84798377
Even when she is being kissed by dick she is thinking about Batman.

>>84798485
You don't think the babysitter banging the parent's kid while they're at work and keeping it their little secret is weird?

>>84798123

Just checked. Yup, that fits all right. BATGIRL: YEAR ONE was published in 2003, as well. It was Dixon tried to make the pair closer in age.

>>84798377
>>84798406

That's a terrible "proof", because in that issue Robin was being super-creepy and disrespectful treating Babs as a dumb broad who should hang the cape and let the men do the work. The only reason Babs kissed him there was to shut him up and make him feel embarrassed.

>>84798427

This is just Robin pinning for his older female partner.

You could have at least posted the time Barbara thought of Dick as cute.

The whole thing was just Babs putting up with a horny teen. Their relationship only really started with Chuck Dixon in the 90's.

>>84796236
>What is with feminists and numales being so against sex and sexual things?
No one loves them so they compensate it by being jackasses.

>"But to me it’s always been there.”
-Bruce Timm

Was Dini the real mastermind behind TAS?

>>84798593
for a second i thought you were talking about /co/

>>84798559

I thought that was fucking creepy as fuck. The fact that she was into Earth-2 Robin, who was basically her uncle/ older brother was bad enough.

Thank God in the end Earth-2 Helena found someone else. That lawyer guy. Forgot his name.

>>84798567
Not really, I'm pretty sure none of them think of each other as their "hot sibling".

>>84798610
If Dini's GN has truth in its portrayal they seemed pretty flexible about suggestions at the table. I wouldn't be surprised if Timm managed to strong arm the idea or get it in people's heads as a potential way to spice up the dynamic of character interactions when really he probably just wanted to get off.

>>84798485
>"Bruce, don't think of me as your ward's former girlfriend, think of me as your best friend's daughter!"

Nope, still creepy.

>>84792003
There is nothing wrong with the story if you disregard the additional batgirl stuff

>>84797258
Batman/Batgirl isn't love though.

Imagine if, some time before she was dating your dad, your mum banged a friend of her father who was about ten years older than her and was like a step-father figure to her when she was a teen.

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>>84798651
But Geoff Johns brought it back

>>84798556
Just checked, you're right, there were people claiming the prologue was good as well. >>84790215
And I thought I've seen everything.

>>84798747
that was sarcasm

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The actual retcon of Dick and Babs age happened in NIGHTWING ANNUAL 2, in 2007. You guys know the issue.

In it both Dick and Babs reminisce about them first year together, as Robin and Batgirl, when they were both 16.

Before that you've BATGIRL: YEAR ONE, in 2003, and some other comics from that time as it has been pointed out in the thread, that had them closer in age but Babs still a few years older.

Before that Babs was 7 year older than Dick.

I just fact-checked all of this shit.

>>84798772
Nah, that was most likely bait.

>>84798712

Yeah, fuck Johns. Earth-2 Dick watched Earth-2 Helena being born and grow up. His more than 10 years older than her. He was more of an uncle than an older brother.

That shit is creepy as fuck. The same with Earth-2 Power Girl having the hots for Earth-0 Superman. NO, NO , NO, NO, JUST FUCKING NO!

Talking of Power-Girl, i also felt disgusted when writers would make Helena Bertinelli having the hots for Batman. It doesn't matter that this Helena wasn't his daughter, it was still off-putting.

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>mfw I watched the movie and all the stuff that wasn't in the original comic was completely unnecessary, but the adapted part was fantastic.

>>84798784

Oh, and in Nu52 both Dick and Babs are 21, despite Dick being written as a lot more mature than her this time around.

>>84792974
Hey mate don't shun any critism about the film into an out-group. It's intellectually lazy and can lead to shutting down valid opinions based on made up assumptions.

Everyone who doesn't like what you like aren't opposition, for example I'm a huge bats fag and a firm anti-femnazi but I still have some critism of the film. Not to imply I hated it, I just think there's room for improvement.

>>84798939
>all the stuff that wasn't in the original comic was completely unnecessary
It wasn't. It was for normies who haven't read the comic to understand the universe.

You can't open the movie with Batgirl getting shot. Otherwise, most people won't know who she is, they won't know why anyone cares. You can't have batgirl be with Dick because Dick isn't in the movie and you can't put him in because he has no role in part 2. People are trying to insert this movie in comic continuity, that is a fools errand, it's a stand alone movie and works well that way.

>>84791888
They could have left with a kiss and yes a lot of woman are attracted to Batman or bruce. And the writers mentioning batgirl was onto the violence it's so wrong because there is even a paralel in two or three scenes where an abusive boyfriend mistreats his girlfriend, they BG looks on the distance for a happy couple, that's not a very strong female character, that's one of those cliches from the 80

>>84799073
>Otherwise, most people won't know who she is, they won't know why anyone cares.

This.

However, they didn't have to make a shitty prelude.

>>84796294
no, what happened *after* the crippling was the best thing that ever happened to her

>>84799073
People are criticizing how poorly the intro is done, though

>>84799073
>Otherwise, most people won't know who she is, they won't know why anyone cares.
Tough shit honestly, she's Gordon's daughter is all they need to see. Original scenario establishes that just fine.

Couldn't we have gotten a short film and the money that went to all the animators and voice actors for the prologue go into better animation?

>>84798535
The main ones are
>barbra fucking batman
Everybody has a difrent reason for hating this personaly i liked what came of it but the way it hapened was retarded
>the ending
This one is less universaly hated because most complaints are that it did not fit what they imagined it would be like in there head. Those who always imagined it that way think they nailed it.not having the rain is agreed to be a fuckup by everybody even those who otherwise loved the scene. Most common complaint is the lack of the police lights and sirens (the lights were a lot less prominent in the recolor) but there have also been people who wanted jokers lines delivered in a completly difrent way

>>84799184
Brian "Bitch to be Pussy right now" Azarello and Bruce "it’s always been there" Timm need their Babsgirl softcore.
Finna flood the market by attaching it to a movie they hope a lot of fan artists will see.

>>84799121
>they didn't have to make a shitty prelude.
What alternatives are there? I mean, are Flashbacks necessarily better?

>>84799128
I'm seeing a lot of parroting "it was shit" but no real valid criticisms that I don't note in my post. The intro has to set up Batgirls meaning to batman and also how batman struggles with the 'abyss'.
>>84799132
>Tough shit honestly
lol. People who don't read comics do not have the context you do. You can't just say "tough shit", they won't know what the fuck is going on.

>>84799270
The entire beginning should have been Joker's origin.

Why is Bruce Timm such a Bruce/Barbara shipper?

>>84799270
Fuck off Timm.

>>84796618
like 40 years ago during Pre Crisis times and when Babs was older than her current incarnation maybe.

>>84799270
Better than what we got? Yes. Why not insert a flashback while Barbara is in the hospital. With a decent story too.

I forgot to mention im one of the people who think they nailed the ending and i liked the film in general

>>84799367
Oops meant to quote
>>84799211

>>84799073
A short scene of Batgirl saving people and catching crooks would have sufficed. Assaulting an ordinary citizen for breaking up with his girlfriend isn't heroic or endearing, it just makes Babs look like a crazy bitch.

>>84797385
Grab him and throw out of the Con.
Considering how poor am if I'm at Comic-con then I'm working as security, it' the only logical explanation.

>>84799367
>>84799396
Although interestingly although plenty of people said the musical bit did not fit what they imagined (i thought it would be a lot slower) few have said they did not like it. While they are brutaly unforgiving on the ending not fiting there headcannon.

>>84791888
i enjoyed it, it could have been a miniseries on toonami but eh oh well. also you can hear mark hamill losing his touch

>>84799270
>I'm seeing a lot of parroting "it was shit" but no real valid criticisms that I don't note in my post.
No, you're just purposely ignoring every critical post to push your argument

>>84791888
So what's wrong with the movie? I haven't seen it yet but Killing Joke was pretty good

>>84799420
In all honesty, the Bruce/Babs romantic pairing makes both the characters look bad. I think both Bruce and Barbara have the sense and maturity not to engage in that kind of relationship with each other even if the attraction has "always been there".

>>84799073
Even the most casual of casuals know who Batgirl is thanks to the Adam west show.

>>84799211
>barbra fucking batman
It was a mutual realisation that they cared. Batman is a dick and stone wall in the movie, she can't read him and thinks he is playing boss and shutting her out. When she actually works out that it's because he truly cares, and she does too, they fuck.
>the ending
People are complaining about there not being sirens or rain? I liked the pan to the puddle and the joker not laughing. That to me provided the same did he or didn't he ending as the book.
>>84799300
>The entire beginning should have been Joker's origin.
Normies know who Joker is, they don't know who batgirl is. I can see how you could do the joker origin story as part 1, but is that better?
>the ending
I'm not really going to let ambient weather ruin a movie for me. I think the most important thing to portray is joker stopping laughing and batman laughing in silence.

How is everyone upset over this? Just watched it and it was fine story wise. People make mistakes and Babs and Bats are no exception and actually makes them more human. One reason Babs got into it because she needed a thrill and idolized Batman. Also writers and artists can spin new ideas otherwise whats the point. The quality was what was lacking, the story was fine.

that hell was the point of the entire batman bang batgirl plot?

>>84799315
Not valid criticism.
>>84799325
But how many flash backs? You want the movie to open with her being shot, waking up in hospital and then we insert a 30 minute Flashback? You still lose the importance of HER getting shot and you ruin the pacing.

>>84799420
>Assaulting an ordinary citizen for breaking up with his girlfriend isn't heroic or endearing, it just makes Babs look like a crazy bitch.
That was the point. She was suppose to see herself heading towards the abyss, beginning to move towards the blurred lines of vigilante and criminal. It helps her understand batmans position, it plays into why they fuck.

>>84799845
>"The thing about this is that it's controversial, so we added more controversy," explained Azzarello.

Azz doing the marvel method

>>84799420
They dress up as bats and fight crime. They are all crazy.

>>84799845
They wanted to build Batgirl up as her own character and not some kind of plot point like in the comic. They wanted to spotlight her contributions and agency as Batgirl. Which was of course all invalidated when they had Batman fuck her. Now she's just more fuel to the fire in the Batman/Joker conflict.

>>84799602
>No, you're just purposely ignoring every critical post to push your argument
No, I'm addressing each of those, but lot's of posts are just "Fuck off Timm" or "I wanted it this way".

Not muh is not a valid criticism. The movie isn't supposed to square with the comic universe, it's a stand alone animated movie.

Bitching about the weather in certain scenes is borderline autistic and I don't see how that makes the movie fucking terrible as many here assert.

>>84799847
>waking up in hospital and then we insert a 30 minute Flashback?

One under 10 minute flashback, a talented writer can explain why Batgirl is important to Batman in that time. Doesn't ruin shit.

>>84799807
normie don't know how joker became joker. anyway, this movie isn't for normies nor should movies be made worse just to cater to normies and alienate the fanbase. stop justifying a badly written prologue

>>84799913
It's okay when dc does it though, especially writer of the most based Wonder Woman run

>>84799935
Wow. She squats.

>>84799801
>Even the most casual of casuals know who Batgirl is thanks to the Adam west show.
You are kidding yourself. The target audience for this movie aren't people who were watching that series in the 60's. People who have seen the Adam West show are either in their 60's now or comic fans who went back and watched it.

Casuals have no fucking idea what Adam Wests batman is and they don't know Batgirl from it.

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>>84798895
>fuck Johns
She was into it though.

Wait, people are complaining that Batgirl fucks Batman?

Aren't they always romantically involved? I thought Batman once got her pregnant and everything.

It always seemed gross, but I figured if it is canon, it is canon. Batgirl likes older men.

>>84799807
>Normies know who Joker is, they don't know who batgirl is
Do you really think that? Batgirl, who was a prominent part of the old TV series, and the animated series? People know there's Batman, Robin, and Batgirl. They might not know who she is besides being Batgirl but for the story of Killing Joke to work all that needs to be established is she's Commissioner Gordon's daughter.

>>84799845
>that hell was the point of the entire batman bang batgirl plot?
Show they care for each other. So that people understood that the girl who was shot was someone important to the batfamily. They didn't have 20 years of continuity to build up the relationship.

>>84800018
Timm pls go

>>84800000

>Dat Get

Witnessed

>>84799937
>Which was of course all invalidated when they had Batman fuck her
How?

>>84800035
Because people can't care about each other without fucking?

Is that why Bruce and Dick's relationship falls apart every time Bruce gets old?

>>84799761
It adds a good flaw, it makes them seem more human. They're out there every night together with adrenaline pumping through them, they're both sexy, sharing a secret and a side no one else understands, things are gonna happen, is it a mistake? Yes. Is it human? Yes. The whole story is about human flaws.

>>84799952
You still lose the gravitas of joker showing up at her door and shooting her.
>>84799960
>this movie isn't for normies nor should movies be made worse just to cater to normies and alienate the fanbase
Yes it is. Normies watch movies, they don't read comics. It's not made worse, it's made practical. People walking into the movie shouldn't need to know the 20 year character history from a different medium entirely.

>>84795446

Haven't seen the movie yet, but it's not unreasonable for a teenage girl to want to fuck a older muscular badass vigilante.

>>84800000
>they don't know Batgirl

It doesn't matter, you just need to set up two things

>Batgirl is a girl that cosplays as Batman to fight crime
>She is also Gordon's daughter

>>84800035
This is exactly the fucking problem. Batman doesn't need to fuck his subordinates to show he cares for them. The problem here is that she's a woman, and they work together, so according to Timm they have to fuck.

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I just need to know /co/:

Does the man deliver?

Because that is literally the only thing I have cared about since they announced this movie.

>>84800089
Batman being flawed due to getting horny is not good storytelling.

Batgirl being batgirl because she wants to fuck Batman is not good storytelling.

This was nothing but that faggot injecting his own fetish into the film.

>>84800041
I'm not fucking kidding. Was that an edit or something? I swore someone posted a comic about her telling Bruce that the baby is his.

I assumed the whole kid Batgirl thing was just from TV and the comics Batgirl was different,

>>84800113
No you don't, you won't forget she is suffering in the hospital for 10 minutes.

>>84799602
>gets called out for using straw man arguments and ignoring legitimate criticisms
>continues to use straw man arguments and ignore legitimate criticisms

>>84799913
>"The thing about this is that it's controversial, so we added more controversy," explained Azzarello.
>It's already on tipping point, so just throw more shit on famalam.
This is that nigga you don't form a human pyramid with. He doesn't understand the point of a balancing act. You come near the tipping point, that's the stunt, you don't actually tip over. That's just fucking up.

It can be amusing in a compilation on incompetence, but it's not a feat of skill.

>>84800124
>Batman doesn't need to fuck his subordinates to show he cares for them.
yes he does
it's why he constantly treats them like crap
the sex is too rated r to show usually

>>84800113
Only hundreds of thousands of people at most buy these DTVs, they're for comic fans.

>>84800024
>Do you really think that?
Yes. Ask 10 people on the street. They only know people from movies, they will know cat woman over batgirl.

A TV series from the 60's doesn't help people born 30 years later understand the character.

>>84796236
Anon, the sex scene was literally invented for this particular movie.
They're talking about her getting crippled.

>>84800113
So you think all your normie co-workers are lining up to watch this movie?

The Killing Joke has always been about Joker. And for fucks sake, anybody who's going to watch this movie is going to know who Batgirl is. You have no argument.

>>84799935
>DC comics aren't just for kids!
Uh oh.

>>84800163
It's from Batman Beyond 2.0 which was written by a salty Dick/Babs shipper

>>84800086
>Because people can't care about each other without fucking?
They can, but it's a pretty easy way to show it.

>>84800124
It's the opposite, Batman didn't want to fuck her and her insistence on it is what drives a wedge between them.

>>84800193
What if DC is trying to, stay with me, sell this to *more* people in order to, please take this huge logic leap with me, earn more money.

>>84800124

In any office I've worked it's pretty common for female subordinates to shag their boss, especially if the boss is youn(ish) and attractive.

Timm is notriously horny.

>>84796944
If anything Azz looks like a sad Russian writer.
The kind that drinks themselves to death before they can get him in a Gulag.
Poor guy.

>>84800153
Why isn't it good storytelling?

>>84800089
No, it defines the character entirely around the flaw and detracts from whatever character arc that the writers are trying to do

>>84800122
>It doesn't matter, you just need to set up two things
No you don't. Because if you just say those things you get no feeling, there are no relationships and viewers become disconnected.

You can't just say someone is important or loved, you have to show it.

>>84800089
I think it's bullshit. It's an easy target for melodrama, and characters can have the strength to not give into their more base desires. I realize that doesn't make for good drama though. But really I don't really buy into Timm's theory of attraction in the first place.

>>84800227
Yes, it was lazy writing.

>a mentor father daughter relationship is hard to write
>just make them fuck each other then
The dynamic is never used again 10 minutes after they have sex. They could not have had sex and the story could have been the same. It was pointless.

>>84800274
Azz please, you shouldn't be writing if you're asking stupid questions like this.

>>84800242
If that were the case, it'd have a bigger budget. The DTV sales are a fraction of what they used to be, they don't even have the audience they had in the late 00s.

>>84800124
>This is exactly the fucking problem. Batman doesn't need to fuck his subordinates to show he cares for them.
He doesn't have to, but does that mean he can't?

>>84800285
>It was pointless.
But it wasn't

They wanted more controversy, and they got it.

Mission accomplished, so I'm not sure why Azz threw a fit when somebody reacted poorly when it's what they wanted.

>>84800274
Which one are you asking?

Batman is suppose to the peak of human resolve. How weak is it to make him driven by sexual desire?

Batgirl is suppose to be a replacement for Robin. Why the hell is a romantic interest suddenly needed?

>>84800230
Even if it's the opposite it's the same. That relationship takes away from the characters. Both of them.

>>84800164
Once the spine shooting happens, it's done. You can't try use flashbacks after the fact to build up the importance of a moment that has passed.

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>>84800225
Oh. I wouldn't have guessed that, but it should've been obvious from the style.

I get the batfamily is insane, but fuck, blatant cheating really makes them seem unlikable.

Did his batcondom break too? Or is Bruce just a bareback kind of guy?

>>84800340
>Why the hell is a romantic interest suddenly needed?
Because she's a girl, not a boy.

>>84800282
And you can do that much more effectively by having human interactions without the manufactured melodrama

>>84800274
It's low hanging fruit. Batman and Batgirl are better than that. Think of something more creative.

>>84800282
Funny, because they didn't have an origin story for Gordon and yet there was no disconnection from him and Batman or him and Batgirl.

>>84800338
It was pointless in the film. He probably partly added it just a sales gimmick. Which is even more shame on him. Why can't we have a good movie without things being ruined for the sake of being PC, generating more sales, being kid-friendly, etc.?

>>84800340
>How weak is it to make him driven by sexual desire?
He's lenient on Catwoman for this reason.
>Batgirl is suppose to be a replacement for Robin. Why the hell is a romantic interest suddenly needed?
Batman didn't recruit her like he did with Robins. She became Batgirl all on her own because she wanted him.

>>84800193
Why would they want to limit themselves to a dying market who would actively pirate it anyway?

This movie is clearly intended to be accessible for normal people.

>>84800363
the whole point of that was to take something from Batman Beyond that was kind of shock value, and just make it much worse

>>84800340
>Why the hell is a romantic interest suddenly needed?
She's the token girl, OF COURSE she has to be shipped with somebody.

That's why the only person Barbara hasn't shown interest in in any media is Damian.

>>84800372
So all females in a story must be horny for the hero?

>>84797864
He shaved his beard and changed his name to Stalin.

>>84800282
>You can't just say someone is important or loved, you have to show it.

Are you 6?

>>84800211
You think DC doesn't want this kind of thing to appeal to more than just comic readers? They aren't going to limit it's scope.

>Only comic readers will watch this so it should be tailored to them
That's how a company stagnates.

>>84800450
Yes, that's what girls are for.

>>84800435
pretty much lazy writing, don't know why that one timmfag is clutching straws trying to defend it

>>84800418
Comic buyers don't pirate everything, if that were the case, single issues wouldn't even exist.

>>84800282
FUCKING ISNT THE ONLY WAY TO SHOW SOMEONE YOU CARE ABOUT THEM.

There are different way to express affection and there are different ways Batman could've cared for Babs. I'm just not sold on their actual attraction to each other.

>>84800318
>spending money to make money

That is not how DC works anon.

>>84800399

Batgirl isn't better than that.

>>84800432
So, in the actual series, did they end up a couple?

Wait, who the fuck has Batman married? I know he has kids in a fair number of continuities. Is it always Catwoman?

>>84800284
He has sex with villains all the time. One could argue that too is submitting to his base desires, more dangerous and is more out of character for him. Yet, no one has a problem with that.

>>84800412
His compassion for Selina has never been sexual. He has denied her sexual advances multiple times. His affection is much deeper, being that he cares for her as a person and believes she is a good person who can live a just life. It is nothing to do with sexual desire.

What on Earth are you reading where Batgirl became Batgirl because she wanted to have sex with Batman?

>>84800479

Because BATgirl being into BATman make more sense than anything else.

>>84800000
The younger generation all know Batgirl from BTAS

>>84800514
Maybe not Nu-Batgirl, but I suppose they got to pick and choose what kind of iteration they wanted for this movie.

>>84800450
>>84800450
Well... yeah, that's the only part a male can't play better than a female.

>>84800285
>father daughter relationship
It wasn't designed as such. They were friends, partners and he involved her in the line of work. Stop projecting the comics onto a different medium/work.

>The dynamic is never used again 10 minutes after they have sex
I'm going to assume you missed the clear theme about Batman getting permission and Joker taking it. The way they both undressed Barbera speaks to the characters.

>>84800533
In the Batman Beyond series, they mentioned that they dated at one point (well after TNBA), but she broke it off and never looked back. She gets married to someone else.

On Earth 2, he gets married to Catwoman and has a daughter Helena (the Huntress)

>>84800539

>His compassion for Selina has never been sexual.

OH, COME ONE! Batman has fucked Catwoman several times out of pure lust!

>>84800476
You can appeal to a broader audience without alienating the original fanbase. And this is what you should do. Most stories that alienate the original fanbase to appeal to a broader audience fail. Just look at BvS and Ghostbusters 2016.

So with these additions, doesn't this mean Batgirl is a prime example of "Women in Refrigerators"?

Turning her into the love interest only so it's more dramatic when she gets shot seem like a case for it.

Also, I REALLY don't like the potential implication that Barbara could have been pregnant when the Joker shoots her. It takes the story to an even darker place when it is already grim.

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>>84800539

>>84800539
>His compassion for Selina has never been sexual. He has denied her sexual advances multiple times. His affection is much deeper, being that he cares for her as a person and believes she is a good person who can live a just life. It is nothing to do with sexual desire.
Guys like Frank Miller and Judd Winick strongly disagree.
>What on Earth are you reading where Batgirl became Batgirl because she wanted to have sex with Batman?
Why else would she become Batgirl, purposely defining herself in relation to another man?

>>84800649
That was funny.

>>84800622

Explain the Marvel Studios movies.

>>84800450
If idolising the hero is why they became a heroine and then they found out behind the mask is playboy, rich, superhunk bruce wayne?
Yes.

>>84800450

It'd be a pretty shitty male power fantasy if they weren't.

>>84800381
>And you can do that much more effectively by having human interactions without the manufactured melodrama
We had human interactions too.

>>84800685
Feige made a deal with the devil.

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>>84800089
>It adds a good flaw, it makes them seem more human.
A good flaw is implying Barbara started the vigilante thing thinking it would be thrills and chills then retiring because it's just mayhem. A good flaw is Jim thinking there'd never be any comeback, a good flaw is Bruce realizing he's on the verge of killing a fool and showing up to the latest disaster too late to stop more lives from being ruined. All these things build up to meaningful lessons.

A "good flaw" is not
>ay bby u want sum fucc?

>>84800733
fucking your student and regretting it is a good flaw

>>84800593
It speaks about Joker and Batman's characters but not hers. Again she's just a prop for the male cast, only now there are creepy sexual parallels.

>>84800631
>Also, I REALLY don't like the potential implication that Barbara could have been pregnant when the Joker shoots her. It takes the story to an even darker place when it is already grim.

Shit, I didn't even think about this. Somehow I doubt they had access to condoms on that rooftop.

Barring her being on the pill, it's entirely possible that their one night stand could have lead to a pregnancy.

>>84800409
Gordon was in part 1.

>>84800731

Well, that's a good answer I have no rebuttal.

>>84800631
>grim
Oh silly anon, I believe you meant "gritty and mature"

>>84800744
It's lazy and predictable and trite at this point.

>>84800593
>create a film adaptation of a comic story
>stop projecting the comics onto a different medium/work!
Wow, I feel like I'm trying to reason with a gorilla.

As for your send point, in the comics it was implied that Joker raped her the same way it was in this movie. So it was more of a "projection" then a nod to the sudden "hey we fucked" earlier.

>>84800610
What does that have to do with what I said? Him giving into his lust is different. That's always been the dynamic between catwoman and him. He tries to save her and she tries to make him give in. But neither of them only care about the other in a purely carnal fashion.

>>84800793
it's still a good flaw and is a good wank

>>84800471
>Are you 6?
Is this what your criticism falls to?

It's basic story telling. You can't sit in a room, provide exposition and hope that the audience begins to feel for your characters.

>>84800813
Go to bed Timm

>>84800841
no i will not

>>84800497
>single issues wouldn't even exist.
They barely do. You are posting on a website that story times everything for free.
>>84800501
>FUCKING ISNT THE ONLY WAY TO SHOW SOMEONE YOU CARE ABOUT THEM.
But it is a completely valid way.

>>84800813
>good wank
timmfags...

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>>84800754

Does anyone have any good recs for Batgirl where they don't use that super cutesy art style, or write it for teen girls?

>>84800363
I hated that book. I was so hype to see Phantasm come back and then when it went into all that shit I was so furious.

>>84800810

The fact that Batman give in to his lust and constantly fuck Catwoman in their uniforms show how little restraint Batman has when it comes to sex.

There you go.

It's canon and happened many times. I MEAN, FUCKING TALIA, MAN!

>>84799073
No, see, that's wrong. You don't need to know that Barbara was Batgirl for this, because in the context of the story, it really wasn't as important.

But for the sake of context in the universe, you don't need a romantic relationship between Batman and Batgirl. You need to show the Father/Daughter relationship Jim has with Barbara. Have the movie start with a Batman/Batgirl team-up to take down [insert crime situation here], and once everything is done, have her swing back home just in time to fool her father into thinking she'd always been there, and let them have some time bonding.

Done. Fixed the prologue. Now it has actual meaning. Yeah, it's disturbing that Batman's partner in battle is now crippled, but it's more disturbing that Jim's daughter is now crippled.

>>84800562
>The younger generation all know Batgirl from BTAS
You are welcome to ask anyone on the street who she is.

>>84800826

Having your characters fuck on screen to show the audience how much they care about each other is barely a step above expository dialogue.

>>84800879
Batgirl Year One
Cass Cain run
Stephanie Brown run
Gail Simone New 52 run if you can handle boxes and boxes of melodramatic narration

>>84800879
Cass' Batgirl run
Steph's Batgirl run

Batgirl Year One
The Bat and the Cat is ok but is mostly good for jerking off

>>84800879
Batgirl year one, batgirl special, Simone Batgirl for guilty pleasure, Dixons BOP for oracle.

Okay, here's my review of it.

The intro is unnecessary. It adds nothing to the main story and isn't that great in itself. I don't mind babs and bats fucking, I don't think it's creepy or anything, it just didn't make for an interesting story, as it was shown. They just wanted a longer movie and shoved something in. (like Bruce did). Unnecessary and boring.

But all the people whining
>waaah, so creepy
are morons.
The rest of the movie, storywise, was great. But we already knew that, because the comic itself was great.
Conroy and Hamill were great, Hamill was obviously old and strained at parts, but it was enjoyable. Plus, it's a very iconic bats&joker story, they're two very iconic actors for the characters, we all wanted to see them act that out. And we did. That alone makes it worthwhile.


The art was abysmal. Like, seriously, abysmal. "we know people will watch it because it's the killing joke, so we won't bother with the art"-levels of bad.
A relatively pleasant way to spend an hour or so, it had to be done eventually, I'm glad we had it with Conroy and Hamill instead of someone else.

>>84800907
The younger generation doesn't even know what BTAS is. Which is sad.

>>84800746
Not true, she has a character arc. She finally fucks the guy she's been pining for, he pushes her away, and that in combination with her violent outbursts and nearly beating a guy to death convinces her that she needs to move on for her own health. However a sudden act of violence pulls her right back in to the point where she's ignoring her own father so she can participate in raids.

>>84800907
I'm not sure why Batman putting his dick in her will somehow illuminate to the audience who she is.

>>84800622
BvS didn't appeal to regular people and even if it did, that isn't why it failed.

It was a terribly put together movie with contrived God parallels that really had no bearing on the story.

It had Flash time travel/speedforce, parademons, mother boxes and other clear comicbook only elements placed in it without any prior set up. That is not catering to regular people in any way.

>>84800991
Getting fucked is a woman's character, that's all you gotta know

>>84800920
>>84800921
>>84800939
Holy shit, many thanks friends.

>>84800920
Cass is good.
Brown is trash.
Babs is Best.

But yeah, read year one.

>>84800631
>So with these additions, doesn't this mean Batgirl is a prime example of "Women in Refrigerators"?
She was like that without the additions. She is shot so that Joker can make a point to Batman. He even laughs at the end.

>>84800991

Batman fucking someone could only mean that he's fucking Batgirl.

Who would he fuck? Batboy? Come on.

>>84792868
>Are people still mad that Batgirl was crippled by Joker?
>I legitimately don't understand that, it doesn't demean her as a character.
The criticism people have with TKJ isn't that Barbara is crippled, it's that Barbara's only role in the story is to get shot. So it's not the crippling, but crippling-purely-as-plot-device.
I don't really care either way, but that's the main problem people have with it.

>>84801030
>Babs
>best
what shit taste

>>84800957
This guy gets it. 10/10 would read your reviews.

>>84800733
>A good flaw is implying Barbara started the vigilante thing thinking it would be thrills and chills then retiring because it's just mayhem
That is in the movie. Almost word for word.

>>84800746
>Again she's just a prop for the male cast, only now there are creepy sexual parallels.
We are talking about the killing joke anon, that stuff was in the book.

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>>84801024
You welcome anon oh Elseworlds finest

>>84800902
>little restraint
>giving into gorgeous women once in a blue moon
Okay.

>>84800907
Even my parents know who she is. You people forget she was in the Batman TV series with Adam West.