Anybody else feel like Marvel is done? Over the course of the

>>84791290
>Anybody else feel like Marvel is done?

Marvel died at the end of house of M

>>84791290
I think the Ultimate Marvel universe is what killed Marvel.

>>84791387
No, that was AvX, there was still some good stuff to come in the next few years (all the cosmic stuff, dark reign, secret invasion, planet and world war hulk).

>>84791290
In fairness, you could go back and read magazines about comics and see people thinking Marvel was creatively bankrupt in the 80's (see: Amazing Heroes and Comics Journal) and the 90's (see: people complaining about Marvel trying to be like Image or whatever).

But I do have to agree, I have major problems with Quesada's time as EIC (most particularly in like 2007 onwards even moreso) but in retrospect, it felt exciting compared to now.

I think it says something when CBR polls are heavily negative about the directions Marvel is going considering CBR is Marvel shill central.

Yeah I don't like marvel that much anymore either
That said I don't think I'd ever stop reading, and I barely pay for them anymore either
Sometimes I'll go to my lcs and pick up a things, like new comics or recent trades but mostly I read online

>>84791576
>all the cosmic stuff
Sure that was decent, but there was no need of marvel

>dark reign
>secret invasion
>world war hulk

>Good

>>84791387
No I'd argue that Quesada's Marvel and Bendis hit their peak at some point and that Avengers Disassembled and House of M were the start of the decline. Civil War was the beginning of the end but things still felt vaguely organic even though illogical. The Quesada era hit their lowest point with the period of Ultimates 3/Ultimatum/OMD.

But the Alonso era is arguably worse and empty feeling in spite of some decent books like Fraction's Hawkeye and the new Ms. Marvel.

>>84791290
They need fresh writers and for Bendis and most of current editorial to leave

>>84791290
No, because you are too stupid to see the end game. They are moving to an IP creating and testing ground, which is what I've said would make the best business sense for them a long time ago. Not that i agree with it creatively but if you are a company that wants to make money, comics don't get you there, IP does. Why do you think they are launching so many books of nobody's like slapstick and foolkiller? It's just about IP generating and testing. Hell gwenpool was all about that too.

Quesada admits it all somewhere in his luke cage interview
>if we fail at a comic it's a couple of thousands, in a movie or tv it can be millions

Source
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_QhjP0H_xs

They need new blood. There are still stories to be told, but not by who they have. When Bendis is writing like six of the books, of course they're going to feel same-y, and no amount of gender/race-swapping or wacky status quo changes are going to change how boring the man's writing is. Even his diehard fans have to admit he isn't at his prime anymore, these aren't passion projects for him, he's just going through the motions. Soule's in the same spot; we know he can write good stories, but now they've burned him out and stretched him so thin to the point he's just the guy they dump books no one else wants on. Why do creators like Lemire who have written well-received books now churn out ho-hum dreck instead? It's time to really commit to hiring new and different writers. Coates's Black Panther has been kinda disappointing, but at least it's a start. At least he isn't the same 5 writers they load up like workhorses and crack the whip on.

>>84791290
Both Marvel and DC have gone through phases where most of the comics suck.

Hell, DC looks like it's just starting to climb out of one.

Marvel's a big company backed by the mouse. They've bounced back before, and they will again.

>>84791290
>Anybody else feel like Marvel is done?

Nah it's never to late.I really hope Nower fails horribly though so Marvel has to have a Rebirth of it's own

>>84791963
Soule is doing great creater owned work, ones where he actually researches new material. Check out strange attractors.

Lemire is a great writer, look at animal man or his current mon knight. But i don't know why they think writers like him can do team books. But these are the same people who keep giving team books to Bendis.

But yes, they need new writers and dropped the ball on king hard. King even admitted he was a bigger marvelfag and still they let him go

>>84791937
But Captain Marvel has failed over and over (and over) yet they are still making a movie out of it.

>>84791937
I think everyone knows that it's an IP farm at this point. The difference is that most of the ideas seem even more uninspired than in the past. Even recent past, for that matter.

You can't really convince me that Tony Stark getting replaced by Riri Williams and Dr. Doom is something shocking when Miles Morales happened five years ago and Superior Spider-Man happened four years ago. Or that Civil War II is something worth any reaction other than outright mocking. Even Civil War I, as terrible as it was, deserved its sales.

>>84792212
I mean, Civil War 2. How inherently retarded is that idea?

When I started out reading comics I was a huge Marvel fan, over the years I've slowly drifted from them more and now I have to say I like DC a whole lot more and between the two of them they're basically all I read aside from a few Marvel titles. I agree with everything you said OP. Spider-Man is still my favorite character and USM one of my favorite comics but there's something off with Marvel, they don't have that "comic book magic" that DC seems to have whenever I open up a DC title. I've been thinking about this too over the past few days and the conclusion I drew, which might be part of it, is that I feel like DC simply has more respect for their characters than Marvel does for theirs. Marvel is always ready to dump an old established character to win some cheap diversity points, and I think that's a microcosm of their overall problem. Too much pandering, too much grabbing for attention, too much flash and not enough substance.

That being said I still like a few of their titles of course but as an overall brand and business philosophy, my mind has been changed and I've swayed toward DC.

>>84791387
Marvel signed their death warrant when they hired Bendis.

>>84792158
You are a fucking idiot, you didn't understand anything in my post.

>>84792212
I never said they are doing it well, they are try to stay current and follow trends and are idiots for it. What they should be doing more of is genuine experimentation. They are digging up old characters, this is a great idea. But they are dropping old ones and i have no clue why they think this is good IP development.

>>84791681
What the fuck are you on about?

>>84791963
This is really it. Whose the new crop of bold new comic book creators? Both Marvel and DC probably should have burned out by the late 80's in a way similar to what's happening to them now, but what saved them was the British invasion. Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Warren Ellis, Garth Ennis, even Mark Millar swooped in and delivered a huge fucking creativity infusion to the whole industry. They'd all read whatever American comics they could get their hands on as kids, but there were never that many. Then they grew up working on 2000 AD and other smaller British comic lines where they could do all this creative shit and build up their storytelling chops, then the American companies got wind of this and started bringing these guys over and we had a comic book renaissance.
That shit isn't happening now because comics went global in the 90's and really hit the fucking mainstream in the 2000's. There's no isolated island of homebrew comic book creators to be recruited to breath new life into the industry. What we're seeing now is a decade of stagnation finally reaching critical mass.

Brain trust needs an overhaul.

> /pol/ would say it's because of their diversity push, but I don't think that's it

It is. Comics have always been somewhat politicized, but never to this extent. Virtually all entertainment has some sort of spin, now, and it only started being so damn obvious over the last 3-5 years. Not only that, the amount of public hatred for people who criticize the spins/messages is insane. Don't like feminist overtones because they come across as preachy? WOMAN HATER! MISOGYNIST! Etc. Think it's tacky to make X black? Racist! Think it's completely ridiculous to have a transgender character? Bigot! Twitter and Tumblr are the largest examples of this.

Comics really need another renaissance, another generation of writers who give zero fucks about the politics and social justice pandering plaguing comics, now. I doubt it will happen, because breaking into comic writing is basically impossible.

>>84792858

This. Trying to bend art into something that exists only to serve a particular agenda is always a mistake.

>>84792710
Problem is that the "big two" are so incestuous. They never hire new people, and when they DO it's always someone that somebody at the company already knows, regardless of how good of a writer/artist they are.

They need new blood but refuse to bring any in because it'd be "too difficult" to have a submissions department.

>>84791636
This.

>>84791963
>Soule's in the same spot; we know he can write good stories, but now they've burned him out and stretched him so thin to the point he's just the guy they dump books no one else wants on. Why do creators like Lemire who have written well-received books now churn out ho-hum dreck instead?

I gotta put the blame for this squarely on editorial. On both of these two they work best when they aren't writing books tied to big events or A-list characters or franchises that will likely be overseen more by editorial (see Lemire's Moon Knight compared to his X-Men). Even if they get new writers I fear that the way things are with editorial oversight right now that any talent they have will ground down to a bland enough paste to appeal to a growing casual audience mostly familiar with MCU-flavored writing and story

>>84793075
Not to mention putting anyone on an X-Men book is telling them to commit suicide. They can't do anything big with them because they have to lose to inhummans

>>84792858
>>84791290

I think the problem's a combination of the posts. Diversity in general is not the problem. We've seen James Rhodes replace Iron Man and Monica Rambeau take the name Captain Marvel in the 80's.

What is a problem is that the way this is done feels like they're only doing it for clickbaiting and shielding from criticism.

Some of this is the editors' fault but a guy like Bendis doesn't have to answer to them anyway. And they really need to stop giving the decent grunt writers 3+ books. There's a reason a guy like Humphries is absolute shit at Marvel and kind of ok at DC. Something is wrong there in the direction creators are getting. Perhaps the seasonal format is a mistake.

>>84792702
Stfu cranky whiner. Maybe it's the old Whiney fans crying about shit.

>>84793236
We need one writer per book. When you're giving someone 6 books to write in a month of course they're all going to be bland.

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>>84791661
>Fraction's Hawkeye
>Hawkeye

Not a bad book but a total misnomer if anything.

>>84793236

>seasonal forma a mistake

it is

lax editorial work is another

also orienting shit towards tbp sales is also something that needs to go. its ok to have some decompressed issues, but decompressed volumes are not ok.

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>>84791290
>tfw the Ultimate universe was originally gonna have all the characters age naturally and progressivly take over the Marvel Universe
>tfw They fucked it up
>tfw it didnt have to be like this

>>84793236

I suspect it's a combination of writers having to juggle too many books at once and editorial at Marvel not doing its job properly where it counts.

And I think Remender and Hickman talked about getting burned out eventually of having their books derailed by events or having plots they intended for either one book or a small crossover being turned into line-wide events. So that probably plays a factor, too.

>>84792982

with the relative boom of creator owned shit right now, "new" talent that prefers to fuck off to image or whatever. they may sell much less

they know marvel/dc's legal will fuck them out of anything new they create on the big 2

>>84794591
Didn't JMS leave purely because of crossovers?

>>84791290
Both Marvel, DC, and the comic book industry as a whole decided that they were 'done' when the prices of comics soared out of reach for the casual purchase of pre teen and young teenagers.
Previous to this, kids would buy 3-5 mags a month, enjoy the shit out of them and share with friends, and then grow older while still retaining an interest in the stories and characters they cared about.

That shit is gone. The industry has literally given zero fucks about cultivating their next generations. The medium is heading to other directions but kids are being given fewer reasons to stick to them over other choices (see: Anime / Manga).
I have no clue how they will climb out of this situation, if they do at all.

>>84794613
You pretty much have to work and Marvel or DC first to get the fanbase behind you so that your creator owned stuff sells, but creators saving their best ideas for their own stuff would explain some lackluster content at the big 2.

>>84791290

Yes. Maybe it should officially end when Stan checks out.

>>84792005
Yeah this
DC just went through a rough patch and now they're getting better. It took creative teams getting fed up with stuff and leaving, people getting marvel exclusives, and DCYou selling poorly for them to get back into shape
I'm hoping Rebirth doing well and CW2/Marvel Nower not doing as hot is the kick in the pants marvel needs

>>84791681

What happened to your mummies?

>>84793268

You mean people who actually know anything about comics at all?

>>84794746
only Soule seems be investing himself in really creating OC at marvel lately

>>84794871
Marvel will always have the success of their movies to fall back to.
They can keep going with this trend of terrible comics for a very long time

>>84792710

I'm convinced if they looked harder at webcomic creators they would find people.

I know they picked up Ryan North (Dinosaur Comics) and Brian Clevinger (Dr McNinja) but both of those writers tend towards the wacky/comedic end of the scale and their stuff has felt sequestered away from the 'main' Marvel comics plotlines.

This isn't ten years ago when it was 90% gamer comics, wacky roommates and fetish fantasy. There's some GREAT dramatic webcomics now and if the big two took a deep dive they could find that talent.

>>84794871

Same. In general Rebirth has done a good job so far (with a couple of misteps here and there) and I hope that continues and translates into sales.

At the end of the day I want good comic books from both companies and a strong DC might force Marvel to stop being so lazy with their comics. I'd also say that DC is currently doing better in terms of how they handle diversity than Marvel.

>>84794950
>not filtering namefags and tripfags

>>84795091
Clevinger could easily tackle more mainstream marvel chars

Imo they just don't trust him to follow editorial/Bendis mandate since he still has some integrity

>>84794950
Nah you know nothing but I do.

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I will go as far as saying this is the lowest Marvel has ever been in terms of comics content.

They are acting reactionary to people who complain on Twitter and do not read their comics.

As garbage as Ultimatum was at least it was something they made on their own.

>>84791290
No OP. You're just getting old and are now realizing how retarded comic books are. The only hope for you now is to find a girl who would be willing to grow old with you as you both veg out on the couch and watch nothing but Law & Order and NCIS.

>>84791387
Nah, they died when Disney bought them. It's been a drastic change ever since.

>>84794734

To be fair to DC they have lowered their prices. That's actually a big factor in why I dropped Marvel and only pirate their books. If DC can afford to be $2.99 then there's no reason Marvel can't and I won't be their bitch

>>84795516

marvel wants to phase out singles

some books are $5

thats telling people to fuck off and wait for the tpb

>>84795616
No they aren't. DC is trying to phase out singles, that's why they're double shipping their biggest titles now. Doubles the speed at which they can get TPB's out which is where they make their most money.

>>84795516
Marvel's books should probably actually be cheaper than everyone else's since they ship so many titles, should split the raw production costs.

The only part of their process that seems to be higher quality than average is the binding on their hardcovers and even then they're cheap about paper quality sometimes and have fewer issues in their collections on average compared to others.

>>84795693
>DC is trying to phase out singles

No DC is trying to make money from both floppies and trades. DC dominates the tpb market anyway

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>>84795693
they're double shipping so they can get more money from a listers
batman #1 sold more than all of omega men and midnighter combined
Trades are a bonus so having and pushing more of them is good, but not their first priority
anyway the first trades aren't out until January 2017.

>>84791290

Marvel died 15 years ago when Bendis stopped writing solo noir books and was given the Avengers to destroy.

And/or when they first split their fan base with the assinine idea of the Ultimate universe.

But its cute that you're so late to the party.

>>84795810

nah.

anything outside bendis' influence was fine up until 2010 or so

>>84795914

says someone who started reading comics post-2000

>>84794703
Yes Seige brought down asgard, something he had been rebuilding for a long time. And is probably the best run of Thor after Simonson. Oh yeah another bendis event where he doesn't care about other writers.

>>84794734
Marvel is putting out a ton of books for kids now. And DC has lowered their price. We shall see who wins

>>84795988
i started around '94 on vertigo stuff, but i didnt read anything marvel until morrison's xmen. that doesn't mean i didnt read old stuff to catch up

maybe that shaped my perception. so be it

>>84792389
What do you read from DC?

>>84796035
Remember when Queseda said the kid audience doesn't exist?

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>>84791290
It was destroyed to feed his legion.

Multiverse-2. Reduced to the carcass that we know today.

The day will come to Multiverse-1.

Empty is his Hand.

>>84796127

>maybe that shaped my perception.
>maybe.

I started reading in the mid80s and that definitely shaped my perception. You could argue that the MU was already dead by the time I started reading as Peter had just gotten married, the New Mutants were turning into XForce, and time suddenly came to a stand still and killed the evolution that made early Marvel Comics great.

But seriously it ended between 2000-2002 when they dropped even the charade of time moving, created the Ultimate Universe, and let king of all decompression destroy the Avengers.

Morrison's Xmen is crap. If that's your introduction and favorite thing in the Marvel Universe your opinion is completely skewed from reality. There is nothing Marvel about that run at all.

I spit on it. Pttui

>>84796277
Was the Multiversity good? I saw it for 40 bucks and didn't now if I should get it.

>hard bound book

Can't be bad right?

>>84795799
>Trades are a bonus so having and pushing more of them is good, but not their first priority
They literally make more money off trades now, so yes, it probably is their first priority now.

>>84796313
It ranges from medicore to amazing.

>>84796313
Treat it as many different comics.

>>84796209
Either he is being overridden or he changed his mind. What is squirrel girl, hellcat, moon girl and devil dinosaur?

>>84795616
You say that like Marvel's trades aren't heinously overpriced as well. Telling people to pay nearly $20 for a poor quality paperback that barely contains 5 issues might as well be telling them to fuck off by your logic.

>>84796390
>What is squirrel girl, hellcat, moon girl and devil dinosaur?
tumblr shit.

>>84796292
>Morrison's Xmen is crap.
Agreed but whedon managed to do some great stuff with his short run

>>84796292
>There is nothing Marvel about that run at all.

probably thats why i liked and some of the stuff after, while nothing but a few claremont runs before it grabbed my interest from their entire comics line

>>84796334
If floppies don't sell then the trade won't exist

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>>84796292
>>84796430

>>84796424
Yes, for little girls and man childs

>>84796390
A bunch of shit that doesn't sell.

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>>84796292
>If that's your introduction and favorite thing in the Marvel Universe your opinion is completely skewed from reality. There is nothing Marvel about that run at all.
Millar pls

>>84796424
>children are tumblr shit

Its not that. A lot of talent left and Bendis/Joe Q/Alonso are all pissed that Feige told them to fuck off from the movies. So giving him less material with the characters that the MCU has while trying to force new characters where they will have to bring them on as creators and shit.

AKA being bunch of bitch bois.

>>84796482
Those books have very shitty sales. You really think kids are buying them?

>>84796482
How many children bought that book?

>>84796510
Squirrel sells fantastic in trades, so yes their parents are buying them
Too early to tell for the other two but copycats usually sells less than the original

>>84796531
>Parents buying their kids this
Are parents this retarded?

>>84796510
>Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Vol. 1 Squirrel Power 6,838 (2015)
>Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Vol. 1 Squirrel Power 514 (Jan 2016)
>Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Vol. 1 Squirrel Power 428 (May 2016)

>Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Vol. 2 Squirrel You Know Its Tru 3,199

>Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Vol. 3 Squirrel Really Got Me No 2,340

For comparison Starfire and Black Canary vol 1 sold 2.3k first month, didn't chart again, and were one of the bigger DCYou numbers on comichron

>>84796582
And we all know DCYou failed. Why are you comparing a book to failures in order to demonstrate that it's a success? I'm sure fucking Avatar Press has books that sold better than those DCYou books.

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>>84796582

>instead of trying to emulate perez, giffen or miller's art; those kids are gonna """"learn"""" to draw emulating erika henderson

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>>84796636
>f-fuck you, DC is worse!

>>84796473
Squirrel girl sell good in trades and moon girl devil dinosaur and hellcat are continuing despite lower sales. You have all failed commerce. If you want to cultivate a new audience you need to take a bit of a loss in turn for future sales. Even if they take a hit now if they turn 1% of them into long term customers they have made a profit. These books aimed at kids are not for you they are for kids and marvel hasn't really had that recently. They need it.

Besides if they see 5books a month to an adult and 1 to a kid that is great cause it hits another demographic.

Marvel has problems but /co/ would ruin it and the audience on spite

>>84796668
Nice damage control, bro.

>>84796664
Is your extreme reading incomprehension supposed to "rustle my jimmies"?

>>84796504
>>84791937

>>84791290
I agree.

But I blame the movies, the movies are empty shells of entertainment who brought more awareness to comics and gave a say about them to people who don't read comics.

And that's how we get to where we're now.

>>84791290
Yes, they're dead but so is DC.

>>84796700
How is that damage control. I am trying to explain how commerce works to you fucking idiots

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>>84796741
Honestly the movies brought me into comics

All I read is Rebirth, Vision, and old TPBs though

>>84796756
DC is doing better than new 52 now though and still dominates in trades

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>>84796654
You ever looked around at drawfags?

It's all anime shit dude

>>84796756
at least there is something to look forward in dc

with the watchmen ip being melded into the main universe and morrison's boyfriend doing the nu-vertigo line

marvel only has a big "fuck you" to readers in its future

>>84796797
I was into comics before but not DC or Marvel. Except Helllblazer. I was into the dark comics and only bought trades of creator owned stuf.

Now i buy flopping, how far i have fallen...

>>84791290
I agree

comcis are just liberal / sjws shit nowadays full of cuck porn and feminists misandry

every white male character is either evil or useless/pathetic so that the female/black characters can save the day and teach us all about black power/girl power

it´s impossible to enjoy comics nowadays if you are a white, straight male that doesn´t subscribe to the increasingly insane and bigoted left so I stopped trying

I usually only come her every now and then to laugh at the current state of comics.
Like for example how Spider Gwen is now a coal burner

>>84796897
t. black womyn

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>>84796897
Yeah because DC sure has a lot of girl power / black lives matter stuff going on right now

>>84796855
>the nu-vertigo line
What

>>84797193
young animal

>>84796897
No, you don't even read comics. It's literally the most diverse visual medium, you can find anything to suit your tastes but you just insist on being a whiny little bitch. I don't read Marvel and I don't care for their forced diversity, but that's because it just seems boring to me unlike the stuff Image or Dark Horse put out.

As long as Marvel still holds majority market share, they don't actually need to change anything

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>>84797318
Chekmate

>>84796897

>thinks variant covers follow any stablished plot

yeah i bet you a big time comics fan

>>84797318
>It's literally the most diverse visual medium
This is some delusion. I love comics too - obviously, or I wouldn't be on this board - but even ignoring the bevy of superhero books crowding out everything, there are barely even room for some genres. It's telling that the /co/ recommendation lists always struggle to find a dozen good works in any category beyond superheroes. Photography, painting, cinema, pretty much every other visual medium other than video games has a wider and more diverse base of works.

>>84797464
Jodorowsky himself could not make in a movie what he could in a comic

>>84797464

>/co/ recommendation are all that exist

nigger /co/ is almost completely devoid of any interest in comics outside big 2

>>84795091
>Brian Clevinger (Dr McNinja)
Really? It's Christopher Hastings, man.

>most people who hate Marvel are just /tv/ crossboarders
makes sense

>>84791290
When you write purely for shock value instead of actually trying to tell a good story it gets tiring after enough time and customers stop giving a shit.

>>84791290
They've gotten away from the underlying theme of Marvel: the burden of sacrifice.
Every other page seems to be a dinner party, or showing how whacky things are. Even with the death of War Machine it just seems like the heroes aren't forced to give up anything any more.

>>84797552
You're right, I'll wait while you pull out some sterling comic recommendations that put film connoisseurs to shame with its spectrum of works.

>>84797464
Listen to >>84797530
Comicscan do great stuff with the form. But /co/ also doesn't seem to pay attention to noth just non big 2 stuff but graphic novels.

>>84797768
That's not what's at issue here: Comics could do all sorts of thing. You and I are capable of doing all sorts of things. Instead here we are posting on a Xibalban xenolith forum instead. They haven't lived up to their potential compared to what other visual media.

We had a thread the other night talking about the exodus of "stalwart writers" who "delivered"

>Brubaker
>Hickman
>Remender
And many many more all within a very short span of time.

>>84797552
I don'd read a comic unless there's a heroclic for it

>>84797807
There are plenty of great ambitious comics that you don't know of because you don't care to look for them

It's like judging all of cinema by the summer blockbusters

>>84797909
Call me when those three know how to end a book

>>84797807
American comics for the most part are corporate run. I'm nkt sure what you want but maybe you should actually LOOK for something you like. Maybe you prefer eurocomics there is a ton of good shit there. Or maybe you like the great indi crime stories america has. Stop being lazy and find something and explore it. You are not an entitled man child that corporations have to cater to.

>>84797941
Implying big 2 have endings

>>84797756
keep waiting

there are so many online resources to read shit for free that if you havent already read stuff just out of curiosity, you probably never will

>>84797952
I didn't say I don't like comics - in fact I stated the exact opposite - but pretending that they're the peak of visual art is hilariously ill-informed. I do like this high level of discourse; /lit/ would be so proud of us over here.

>>84791661
>No I'd argue that Quesada's Marvel and Bendis hit their peak at some point and that Avengers Disassembled and House of M were the start of the decline. Civil War was the beginning of the end but things still felt vaguely organic even though illogical. The Quesada era hit their lowest point with the period of Ultimates 3/Ultimatum/OMD.

This. Also, losing Morrison, JMS, Millar and the decline of Bendis was too much to handle.

Marvel died for me in stages. I was buying Bru's Captain America, the Venom series and Scarlet Spider. Once they all ended, I was done. I haven't seen anything worth my time since, though Superior Foes was an amazing read, I don't feel it worth collecting. I'm pretty much done with comics beyond collecting older stories I loved as trades. The only new series I'm buying is Carnage because the art and writing is too good NOT to support. I dropped all DC too.

Now all I buy is Marvel's Carnage for the reasons stated above and Walt Simonson's Ragnarok from IDW because it is THE shit.

Also will buy any new Godzilla trades that come out. Kiaju are the best. Godzilla In Hell was magnificent

i've kinda had the feeling it's about the movies/disney but in a different way than most of the thread. i think the people in the comics are rebelling against a stronger corporate culture than they ever had. disney's de-emphasis of the x men i think started to scare them, as x men was the sacred cow for money and respect. i think the sjw slant has increasingly been about try to capture the aware social conscious feeling that marvel prided themselves on while taking a protected rote to show they aren't just an ip factory. but, they don't have the talent to make it interesting.

>>84798299
losing millar was good

>>84798176
Peak of visual art? I don't think any medium can actually claim that. They each have strengths and weaknesses. It is how the creator harnesses them that is interesting.

But you can't deny how far people like McKean, David Mack and Mobius have stretched the boundaries of comics

>>84798435

Millar is an amazing architect. He has good ideas and most of his Marvel's work is really solid.

He needs a good editor or Morrison friendship to be at his best, thought.

>>84799566

>he needs to be constantly reined in by an editor or morrison ghostwriting him to be good

ok

>>84791290
Battleworlds/Secret Wars catastrophe ending my torrid decades long affair with Marvel.

It was then I noticed that there was no one in charge of the asylum.

I can't say I've outgrow capeshit, I'm merely tired of Marvel's hackneyed, agenda laden, tripe.

>Marvel is done
have you looked at movie sales?

>>84801404
The bubble will burst. Let DC & others keep piling on the bandwagon. Once the public is sated with superheroes, Marvel will seek new revenue streams. Hopefully real games or better comics.

>>84791290
In the Quesada years Marvel had a fairly stable system for developing writing talent. They'd pluck someone from the world of creator-owned, they'd be mentored by one of their established writers, and eventually turn into equivalent stars.

So Matt Fraction broke into Marvel co-writing with Ed Brubaker, and when Fraction became established he co-wrote some stuff with Rick Remender, and so on.

But most of the established writers left - some very abruptly, like Remender - to concentrate on their creator-owned stuff. And the writers they mentored haven't become equivalent stars. So they're piling a lot of books on writers who aren't really that exciting. Mark Waid is a good writer (I think) but he's not the kind of writer who would normally be writing the Avengers flagship, not because he's bad but because he's a veteran and rarely is a spectacular team-book writer. He's got the job because they don't have many writers they can depend on.

I don't know how they can develop new talent. They need some kind of farm system, like before the mentorship system most of the writers started in editorial (where they would learn how comics were made before picking up writing work).

>>84798435
Debatable. While he did some really fucking terrible comics, Civil War being one of them, in retrospect he wrote a better Spider-Man series than Dan Slott and even Civil War was vastly better than most of the other big Marvel events that came afterwards.

>>84794045
Hey, I don't deny that his Hawkeye was too much of a fucking loser. But the book is not bad as its own thing.