At what point was America dethroned as the kings of animation?

The 80s or 90s.

>>84764194
That long ago? Damn

In the early 90's desu

But I like all shows on the right save for PPG and Ben 10

>>84764417
I mean literally animation, like visuals and shit

>>84764149
oh shoot what happened to that second season of bahamut

>>84764501
The mid-'80s.

>>84764533
It's still coming senpai

>>84764149
Can I get a list of everything on the left?

In the 90's, when Saturday morning cartoons abruptly stopped, crippling basically most of the American animation industry and anime went into overdrive with things like Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop.

>>84764149
But anime is literally Power Point, there is no animation if the frames are on screen for 20 seconds.

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>>84764149
>Modern Anime
>Good

>>84764501
Then you posted bad exemples, only the first and fourth oness look nice, but yeah, none of the cartoons does

>>84764149
What's top left

>>84764667
https://youtu.be/5OIQM608joc?t=103

Here's an anime with an average budget.
Show me a cartoon airing right now that can compare to it.

>>84764679
Better than modern cartoons.

>kings of animations
>posts stills
????????????????

>>84764650
even before that, companies were outsourcing animation jobs to asia

CN basically killed Saturday morning cartoons though

>>84764679
>Posting a literal /v/ meme
Should be bannable.

>>84764788
This to be honest

>>84764788
just goes to show the wide variety and diversity anime has over cartoonies

>>84764679
Yeah man, you're right, how could modern anime possibly compete with nuBen10, nuPPG, AND TTG???

Then what cartoon airing right now is the most aesthetically pleasing to you guys?

>>84764924
It's all shit

>>84764149
A lot of it is a difference a half a world away makes. In the US, 'cartoons,' are mainly for kids and written and drawn as such.
In Japan, a lot 'anime,' is mainstream and directed at more adult audiences who require more than goofy shapes and dopey plots.

>>84764149
The star vs animation is pretty good
Artstyle is trash though especialy on star herself

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Is it time?
>>84764949
You're so cool and above it all anon, we're really impressed.

>>84764933
SU is hands down the best looking cartoon out right now, and that's actually kinda sad

The animation for Rick and Morty is actually pretty solid all things considered

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>>84764149
>Comparing Bojack to any Anime

know your place, pleb

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>Jin-Ro was so well animated people actually thought it used rotoscope
It doesn't

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>>84764933
Probably Harvey Beaks.

>>84764760
>Madhouse
>average budget
American animation is more consistent. Shows with 12 episodes like OPM have two or three fights with good animation and then the rest is just stills, off-model animation and cheap tricks to save some shekels, while (good) american animation can maintain a decent framerate during more than 25 episodes.

>>84765082
this movie it's so good because it wasn't written to be a Anime but a live action film.

One thing I hate about cartoons is how halfassed opening/intros are. Anime puts a lot more effort into them

>>84764605
thanks, good that mappa is getting work, objectively goat studio

>>84764149
Our tv shows have always been animated in japan or korea anon.

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>>84765070
>sad reddit horse powerpoint

>>84765121
The direct came outright and said it wasn't high budget because he saw so many people saying it was due to how good the animation is.

>>84764650
>tfw you will never again race out of bed every Saturday Morning to catch your favorite cartoons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP4u4I96DVQ

>>84765121
>>>Madhouse
>>average budget
https://twitter.com/kubo_chika/status/658611075936464896

>>84765149
>anime openings
I hate most of them honestly

The songs are super cringey and I don't quite remember a single good opening that wasn't just "watch as all the characters fly by with a 1 or 2 second clip of them doing something while an upbeat song plays"

Like the Batman TAS had such an iconic opening because it set the tone for the episode so well. Very few animes do that, even great animes like Welcome to the NHK and Full Metal Alchemist

>>84764149
>that heavily biased chart
That is like putting The Iron Giant against JoJo's slideshow adventures which is a pretty good show, but has some serious animation issues

>>84765359
correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear I heard that there are bands in Japan that specifically make songs for the hope that they become anime opening themes.

>>84765404
How is it biased?

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>>84764149

2001 precisely. Outside of cinema, cost effective animation started becoming a significant trend and viewers just walked away to Japanese Anime left right and center.

American producers were forced to change their demographic drastically back to a younger more easily influenced audience en mass and it was never the same again.

Within the last five years though the pendulum has begin to swing around again to American animation slowly, which when looked upon in retrospect from 2002 to 2010, the sheer lapse in quality before and after is astonishing.

>>84765458
You are correct.
There are plenty of singers/bands that exist solely making anime openings, and they do pretty well

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All the anime in the picture look fucking terrible. Jesus, weeabos have no artistic sense whatsoever.

>>84765458
There are a couple of bands that I know of that basically just make anime openings or at least dedicate all their singles to becoming anime openings like Home Made Kazoku has a couple Naruto and Bleach openings/closers

>>84764149
> It's an "eastern animation vs western animation episode"

/co/ takes the easiest bait.

>>84765574
>discusion is bait

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>>84765518

The comparison between the 'realistic' weeb style against the cartoony western style is unfair when comparing stills, because the western shows maintain a more cohesive animation framerate while anime alternates between ok animation and powerpoint.

>>84765827
Not really, Rage of Bahamut had consistent high quality animation that puts any non-movie western stuff to shame.

>>84765518

Damn near everything these days looks like Genndy Tartatovsky's unloved bastard child on American television if it isn't anime though.

Complete with zero shading, poor production and absolutely no risk involved with whom it's target audience is.

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>>84765882
It was mediocre as fuck, mate.
Also
>based on a generic mobage card game with an autistic fanbase
That's the problem with anime, almost every anime is generic as fuck created to sell shit, and they succeed because japanese culture accepts NEETs and severe consumism.

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>>84766270
At least try to be amusing with your bait anon.

>>84764933
Clarence.
It has some really detailed scenes and a nice charm to it.

>>84764933
Wander Over Yonder, except it's cancelled now so I guess Steven Universe or Harvey Beaks.

It's too bad the art style/character design of SU sucks, otherwise it'd be a pretty show.

>>84766347
>shitty moeblob picture
Off yourself, my man.

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>>84766470

>>84764149
I'm gonna say about 1960ish.

Choice of stills for the OP image seems biased and dumb but whatever man.

>>84766584
How is it bias?

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>>84764149

At this very moment we are living in a new golden age of Western animation, why can't you see it?

>>84764149
Including or excluding movies and CG?
Or do you want to compare TV and handrawn only?
Because in the US the majority of talent and money is directed at CG nowadays.

I find it sad that /co/ prefers anime over cartoons

>>84766633
It just seems like the cartoon on the right were selected based on the first thing that came up for them in Google images, while the coolest images were deliberately chosen for the anime.

Feels like it'd be more neutral if both had an image from the theme song or from an action scene or whatever.

>>84766833
Excluding CG, movies are fine tho

>>84764985
Really, you're upset that someone doesn't continue to like something regardless of the drop in quality?
That makes them what, elitist?

>>84764149
What's that second to last animu?

With the orange afro guy.

>>84766920
Shingeki no Bahamut

I remember watching the first few eps while it aired. It looked very nice, but I couldn't really stay interested to see it til the end. From what I've heard though, the animation quality seems to hold up until the end of the series, surprisingly.

>>84766919
If you don't like ANYTHING airing right now between the west and east, you're not an elitist, you're a tryhard hipster.

>>84764933
Gumball.
Disney had some good stuff with Wander, but that is kill.

The reason why you don't see high quality TV animation being made in America is because American animators would not stand being treated / paid the way Asian animators are. Especially not the flaky artsy types.

>The pay/hours change depending on who you are and what your job is. The best position (which only the best of the best can manage) is "freelance genga-man aka freelance key-frame animator" ... you can demand your own prices and actually take time off after project if you want. For everyone else (and definitely for inbetween artists like me), its as bad as the rumors. I worked at a slave-labor-inbetween-studio called "nakamura pro" for 8 months before moving onto Pierrot which is where I am now. At Nakamura pro we were paid $1 per drawing, meaning you earned between $5 and $25 a day. At Pierrot it`s way better... but still pretty bad. 1 drawing = $2-$4 .... so on any given day I can earn about $40. (HORRIBLE by anyone's standards.... but, if you want to work on cool anime, there's not much choice.)

>...Each month at Pierrot I earn about $1000. ...... each month at my previous "slave-labor" studio, I earned about $300 a month...

Even the shittiest of shit animation positions in America demand less and pay more.

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>>84766470

>Not knowing Galko, the best girl of literally the whole multiverse of fiction

faggit

>>84767581
Western artist have much bigger egos as well and have god complexes.
There's a reason Japan's indie scene is way stronger and higher quality than the west's

>>84766892
They're all just regular stills from their series.

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>>84767825

>Western artist have much bigger egos as well and have god complexes.

Does anybody of you guys called me? I can school you in what real cartoons should be about.

>>84766892
Not really, Star even has the ending animation being used, which is higher quality than the show itself, so if anything its bias in favor of the cartoons

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>>84764679
With the amount of anime that comes out, even if over half is shit, there's still more good anime coming out in a year then there are cartoons total.

>>84768014

There are like 20 or so animated shows every quarter of a year in Nipland while CN has like 5 new cartoons every 5 years

>>84768014
THIS

>>84767850
>>84767946
I mean it's not really showing stills from similar/equivalent scenes to show what one's doing right vs. the other one doing wrong. You could easily take a single still from either a cartoon or anime that looks really good or really bad, and from there say the whole show is better than the other side or is shit. Still frames don't tell you much in this case.

I mean, I think it's obvious from the OP the image is meant to be in favor of anime, but trying to actually compare would give it at least a pretense of presenting things just how they are.

For the record I haven't even seen the majority of shows in this image, but if it's immediately obvious to me how certain images were chosen (the Ben10 one was posted all over /co/ in the last couple days) then I think the selection's kind of bullshit.

>>84764149
What's second from bottom looks good :D:D:D:D:DD

>>84764788
stop bringing sensibility into this thread of bait

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>>84764533
>second season of bahamut

The first season went really wonky towards the end but damn I need a proper conclusion for Favaro, Amira, and Rita.

>>84765602
> the same arguements in the same formattings by likely the same anons is "discussion"

>>84768149
Edit it yourself then

>>84768339
Why would I have to do that?

All I said was the image is kind of obviously and stupidly biased.

I got asked why; I explained my position.

My work here is done.

>>84768388
>I explained my position
Which isn't worth much because
>For the record I haven't even seen the majority of shows in this image.
Your work isn't done until you make sure your position is right.
Pro tip: it's not.

>>84768388
Typical 14 year old
>I wanna whine and complain but not do anything myself

What's the fourth anime? The one with the blonde girl with purple eyes who looks like a ayyylmao.

>>84764149
GIRI GIRI ayyyyyyyyyyyy

>>84768514
I meant by that that I'm not trying to say cartoons are better, which someone indicated I was, and I'm not in favor of either side. I have seen examples of both recent cartoons and anime, though, and am basing my view on that.

Unless you, the OP, and everyone else in this thread has seen the entirety of those shows too it doesn't make sense for me to watch them all to say the image is obvious bullshit.

>>84768653
That's not the OP, I am.
and I HAVE seen every show on there, except the Ben10 thing, cause its not out

>>84768571
What have you done lately?

About the only thing anyone in this thread is doing is posting in this thread.

>>84768694
Your position is still wrong though.
The image isn't bullshit and the selection of pictures on the left side isn't anything special compared to the right side.

>>84768748
Missing the point

>>84768812
All I said was that they'd look less bullshit if they were from similar scenes, even something as basic as like 10 seconds into the opening or whatever. You can't really compare anything here besides art style because all are still frames (though the thread is about animation), but at least showing what both are doing at a similar point of reference is unbiased.

>>84764679
Still better than modern cartoons

>>84768330
yeah, i was hoping that it'd stay relatively grounded in the world of goofy rooftop horse chases and zombie pirates, but nah, our scrappy down-to-earth protags have to throw down their cards against dragon satan himself

not that it was done badly, but favaro/kAISERR hijinks got kind of shafted

>>84768606
that's the new danganronpa

one of the two, anyway

>>84765657
They all look the same and have almost zero facial detail, just a scratch for a nose and copy pasted eyes, then they go to real wok on the hairs.
There's much better examples of anime art to illustrate this shitty point the OP is trying to make.

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>>84766996
>If you don't like that studios have chosen quantity and profit over quality then you're a hipster

>>84769340
I repeat, if you don't think anything currently airing is good, you're a tryhard hipster.

>>84769035
>All I said was that they'd look less bullshit if they were from similar scenes
If you try too hard to pick similar stuff to compare then the only conclusion you're going to be able to draw is that they're both very similar.
>You can't really compare anything here besides art style
A picture is worth a thousand words. Just a single screenshot of a show can tell you a lot.
>all are still frames (though the thread is about animation)
stop moving goalposts, this is clearly about anime shows vs western shows not about the specific animation techniques/frame counts etc...
>at least showing what both are doing at a similar point of reference is unbiased.
The point of reference is modern tv shows. Like less than 2 years old. Seems like a good unbiased point to me.

If you think OP's pic is cherrypicking in any way then prove it.

>>84769406
Name one current animation that's good.

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>>84769340
Go ahead, tell me why Macross Delta is bad.
I mean you've seen everything airing right now, right?
You're pathetic

>>84769436
Macross Delta.
Mob Psycho 100
91 Days
Orange
Just off the top of my head.

>>84769434
>the only conclusion you're going to be able to draw is that they're both very similar.
If you're admitting you could find similarities that seems to indicate the current image is indeed biased.

>stop moving goalposts, this is clearly about anime shows vs western shows not about the specific animation techniques/frame counts etc...
>>84764149
>kings of animation
Coulda fooled me.

I think the important thing to take away from this thread is that y'all should watch Mob Psycho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8q49lMZsJk

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>/a/ thread
>literally any opinion, fact or thought that goes against the OP will be declared bait or autism.

why the fuck people even respond to this kind of threads? there's no way to wind against /a/ shitposters.

>>84769340
>I don't like when businesses make good business decisions

>>84769666
>oh shit I got called out
>DAMAGE CONTROL
>UH AUTISM BAIT

>>84769137

Thank you

>>84769666
What fact has been said so far?and the opinions are things like
>No good airing animes
Which implies you're watching 20+ shows

>>84769785
kys

More like 40+ shows

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>>84769340
>>84769436
>>84769666
>>84769932
HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>84769617
>If you're admitting you could find similarities that seems to indicate the current image is indeed biased.
Nope, I'm saying that if you try too hard to focus on the similarities the image will be biased toward showing similarity, when the reality is that both a quite different.
If column B has flat composition and not much details then it's biased to purposefully compare it to a similar shot if the reality of column A is that they have complex layouts and lots of details most of the time.

>kings of animation
>Coulda fooled me.
I don't get what you mean by that. Kings of animation doesn't imply anything specific about animation techniques, it's a pretty generic statement about animated shows. Like shows from A are better than shows from B therefore A are the kings of animations.

>>84769625
>lolsorandom humor

>>84770247
Nothing in there was random, nice tr tho

Mob Psycho is good and Thunderbolt Fantasy is nice. TBF isn't really anime but it's animation so we should be allowed to have /co/ threads on it.

>>84770317
baaaaaaaaaw

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>>84764933
>>84767108
>>84765112
>>84766448
>>84766403
>>84765112
>>84764987
Plebes, some of the shows you've listed are legit good but none of them come close to the art porn that is the dog and his boy show.

>>84770373
TBF?

>>84770002
>if you try too hard to focus on the similarities the image will be biased toward showing similarity
Focusing on similarities actually illuminates the differences, by showing what one side does better than the other in similar situations.

And I even offered a more general standpoint of similarity that could be used: showing what 2 different shows are doing at the same running time, like 10 seconds or 5 minutes in.

>Kings of animation doesn't imply anything specific about animation techniques, it's a pretty generic statement about animated shows
Could have said "kings of animated shows" and I would've stayed the hell away because this discussion's been done many times before here. "Animation" implied literal skill at animation, which was why I replied saying that random still frames doesn't truly indicate that one way or the other.

But now that it's been made clear this is the 50,000th /co/ anime vs. cartoons thread I'm not really interested anymore; I really thought this was about the animation itself.

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>>84770436
It's decent.

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>>84765518
>Mob Psycho 100
>terrible

kill yourself

>>84764760

>22 shots were non animated pan n scans

about 120s of the clip is animated, and the style changes two or three times.

heres a clip from SU I compared because it's western, it has a fight, and it's about the same length as the OPM clip

https://youtu.be/q6muPm38KZw

about 31s of it isn't animated, it has about 5 scenes that are just mouth flap or moving holds, but not really any pans that I noticed. the style is consistent.


Now I can guess what your thinking, OPM is more interesting, entertaining, prettier w/e. That's fine if you see it that way, but that's a subjective assessment that has nothing to do with the animation. as others have pointed out the OPM clip is from a short run OVA and probably had a better budget per EP than a long running TV show, I personally don't see that as a real issue in comparing the two clips.

looking at the animation alone, OPM has good perspective, but it's very jumpy between keys, no real quality inbetweening at all, there isn't good variety in expressive movement either, shoulders don't move, the same look on everyone's face. also I count the style changes against it because it doesn't look intentional to me, it looks like it's just falling apart. everything that isn't a fight is basically just a slide show.

now in SU its more subtle there are shoulder movements, variety in facial expressions and head rotations (seems simple but it's actually tricky to do right) the fight is less dynamic, has less perspective work, but then again the whole damn thing is actually animated and in one style, I counted the few scenes with just mouth flaps and moving holds as not really animated.

>TL;DR

OPM; B quality fight scene animation, everything else is a non animated slide show

SU; C quality fight scene animation, everything else is at least B quality animated.

in terms of animation alone, I'd say the West is still putting out higher quality work than I've ever seen out of Anime (comparing apples to apples anyway)

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>>84770798
I'm more talking about the art than the writing, Shelbyposter.

>>84764742
It's called Mob Psycho 100

>>84770858
>a short run OVA
OPM is tv, only 13 eps sure, but still tv.

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>>84770820
>generic anime #987
>being this triggered
don't you have a tumblr to update?

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>>84764149
This chart rather bothers me. I mean, I'm more of an /a/non than I am a /co/mrade, but animation is all about the demographic they're for, regardless of the country. I'll give you the last two cartoons, but why are you comparing kids shows to shows aimed at adults? Why aren't you comparing NuPPG or Teen Titans to Jewelpet, Pretty Cure or Puzzle and Dragons?

But all that aside, to address your point, even moonmen admit that what they put out still can't touch Disney. At least in film.

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>>84769234

>rage of bahamut
>ushio and tora
>scratch for nose
>copy pasted eyes at all

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>>84770925
I know, mang. The art direction is simple but fun to look at.

The animation itself isn't bad, though. It's kind of choppy but there are spurts of really fluid animation sprinkled around.

>>84770858
I love SU, probably mroe than the average dude here, but it's really stupid you'd try to use that as good animation. There's no weight in their movements and they articulate about as well as someone wearing cardboard tubes on their limbs.

>>84764149
>Left
>Actual shading
>Detailed outfits that aren't just (color) shirt + (color) pants with maybe a emblem on it
>Realistic
>Stylized realistic
>Gritty
>Right side is all flat, same shading, same camera view, same shading with basic shapes and about similar art styles

Hey I fucking love Bojack, Rick and Morty, and Star VS, but can we really stop pretending like animated TV shows in the west can hold a candle to animated TV shows in the east?

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>>84770858
>tfw pokemon has better fights than SU which is considered thebest airing US show

When the DCAU ended.

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When America abandoned 2D in favor of Flash and CG

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>>84764149
Everyone in Western animation gave up after they realized they would never be able to top The Dover Boys.