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Storytime of Pain & Knuckles 2016-07-22 17:21:11 Post No. 84704831
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Storytime of Pain & Knuckles 2016-07-22 17:21:11 Post No. 84704831
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PART 3
I'm going to do as much as I can before the big party tonight. Let's do this.
Part 1 (Issues 1-8)
>>84676264
Part 2 (Issues 9-15)
>>84686318
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I probably won't finish today, but we'll see
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>>84705013
>All in good time
Why would he want to withhold that information?
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The Knuckles comics were objectively awful.
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>>84705115
The art was decent
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>>84705013
I always suspected this guy would turn out to be a villain
Why else would he be dressed as Darth Vader?
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>>84705158
Because Penders has 0 original ideas in his head
>>84705115
I agree, but can you not post images during a storytime
>>84705110
Because it adds "mystery" to the book in the most asinine way
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>>84705209
I can't not read this as "smega stud" even knowing what it's supposed to say.
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That 4th panel perfectly sums up how Penders writes every single female character he gets his hands on
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I get why Knuckles is upset here, but at the same time this guy's already 15 times the father Locke is. For one, he doesn't microwave his son as an infant, fake his own death, abandon his son in the wild, and go out of his way to avoid him
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>>84705657
To Ken's credit, that really doesn't matter.
You have to be in that situation to understand.
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>>84705693
I suppose.
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This scene fucking frustrates me so much. Instead of using this chance to give these two believable chemistry and actually give Julie Su SOME semblance of a character, he completely wastes it. I really just hate that whole Knuckles/Julie Su romance in general because there's practically no chemistry
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Onto issue 17
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>>84705951
I don't think the average 10 year old wants romance in his comic
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>>84706168
Don't tell that to Penders, because Penders wasn't writing this for kids.
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>>84705903
Pretty much
This pairing always felt forced as hell.
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>>84705693
It's a good message for a kids comic at the very least. Seeing your parents divorce and remarry when you're still that young can be distressing. People who have had to deal with that can relate to Knuckles here.
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>>84706426
I will give him that, that at least it was handled decently. But I'll immediately take it away because he acts like it was such a big fucking deal and lauds himself over how "progressive" he was for this
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>>84705951
Those thought bubbles that spell out how they're tsundere for each other reminds me of CWC's dialogue.
Not that I'm even remotely surprised.
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>>84706619
Both of them are as subtle as fucking bricks
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Okay, there's two small things about Pender's dialogue that piss me off in particular: that habit of starting sentences on one page and finishing them as a transition is cool the first 3 times, but almost every scene has it.
Also bolding every other word is just annoying
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>>84706865
>...This ISN'T what I would call a TEXTBOOK example of SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT!
>Y'know, Archy, I'd be LYING if I said I DIDN'T miss you... But I'm afraid a lot's gone down since I last saw you! It just isn't the same anymore!
>That's WHAT I wanted to talk ABOUT, my boy! The fact that it's been a LONG time...
The way it's written is just really unnatural.
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>>84707088
>The way it's written is just really unnatural.
It really is, and it makes the comics he writes annoying to read. He's obviously trying to make it more dramatic than it is, but it comes off as like you said: unnatural and weird
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>>84707221
That echidna woman in the first panel. Her arms are fucking twigs!
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>>84705787
It's true, some of us have had to deal with being radioactive echidna gods whose mothers that we barely knew remarried.It's a decent idea, but it should really be done with a more "normal" character like Vector.
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>>84707379
>It's a decent idea, but it should really be done with a more "normal" character like Vector.
Well, there were implications in Ian's run that he did have some sort of issues with his parents (Well foster parents) but that never got to go anywhere
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>>84707523
It's just that you shouldn't do a story like that with a character who JUST MET his parents.
Also, on point: Tobor is the FUCKING WORST and the final straw on the whole "Knuckles lineage" thing. His convoluted story just cements this as garbage instead of an interesting history.
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>>84707665
>Also, on point: Tobor is the FUCKING WORST and the final straw on the whole "Knuckles lineage" thing. His convoluted story just cements this as garbage instead of an interesting history.
Care to explain why you hate Tobor so much? I kind of checked out mentally on the family tree around this time
>It's just that you shouldn't do a story like that with a character who JUST MET his parents.
Oh absolutely. It's like Penders just wanted to do this kind of story without putting any thought of how to actually do it in a believable manner. This isn't even the worst case of that
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>>84707665
I only half pay attention to this madness. What's so bad about him?
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>>84707601
Wondering whether or not the Flintstones found their oranges is more interesting than anything else in this issue.
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>>84707795
It's more interesting than most of the arcs of this comic. Fuck, I'd rather watch Underground than read this
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>>84707756
>>84707787
You'll see by the end of this issue.
It's the most redundant shit.
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>>84707868
Wait a second, couldn't Tobor have screamed? His mouth was still working and the guy was within shouting distance
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>>84707868
>Copy pasted art in the second and third panels.
>Rocks change position in the fourth panel even though it's the same angle
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End of issue 17 and I'll be taking a quick break for lunch.
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>>84708019
>TO BE CONTINUED...
>(It'll be worth it!)
Oh. I'm sure it will.
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>>84707868
Yeah, you see this? This is why Tobor is fucking awful. Ken wanted to have his cake and eat it.
See, Ken wanted a mole in the Brotherhood, so he thought up Tobor (get it? robot backwards?). Problem: The Brotherhood is SOOOO COOOOOL and infallible. So the solution is a body double, and it's a super important Legion guy to make THEM look cool. But if a Guardian DIED and it was in vain, the Brotherhood would look bad!
So now we have two fucking Tobors running around for decades because fuck you, and Ken writes some lore for fake-Tobor next issue. Problem is he clearly wrote that via stream-of-consciousness, because he ended up creating timeline problems! So the next several times we hear about Not!Tobor, there's a bunch of fucking retcons being hurled around.
And, SPOILERS! Once again, regular Tobor ONLY exists to make the Brotherhood look better. So hegets pushed on a bus and randomly dies years later.And Not!Tobor?One issue of Knuckles chasing Cyclops around Haven, vague threats, some retcons, and then NOTHING ELSE. EVER.
It is an entirely pointless waste of time, even by Ken's standards, and is a major source of lore glut. And the IDEA of a robot spy is fine! He just didn't fucking use it.
Fuck. Tobor.
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>>84708581
Good point. Also I forgot Tobor randomly comes back to die later
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Also, knowing the big "secret" about Remington makes some parts of this issue like 1% more interesting
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>>84708881
I really wish you had done a full Penders run, just to get the followup on a lot of this garbage
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>This Thread
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>>84709068
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>>84709087
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>>84709058
I was originally considering that, but then I realized that I do not have the time needed to do that. Hell, I realized that I planned this one pretty poorly
>>84709068
>>84709087
>Posting images during an active storytime
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>>84709139
I saw people do it three yesterday.
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>>84709139
>Not posting images during a Sonic storytime.
It's not like it's ending in this thread anyway. Fuck it.
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>>84709220
Yeah and they're kind of dickish for it. If you really wanna post images, at least wait until I move on to the next thread
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>>84709267
Someone's never been in a Sonic dump before.
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>>84709323
I have, and normally I'm okay with it since they're usually much shorter. Ah screw it, fine, go ahead. Just don't go overboard is all I ask
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>>84709343
I posted the 3 I saved for Knuckles series specifically. I don't care to post anything else.
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The more I read the more thankful I am that none of this is canon anymore
>>84709393
Okay cool
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>>84709416
Why is his penis a dimensional portal?
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>>84709521
Penders has weird fetishes?
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>>84709506
Also I just noticed that one of the captions has a different font. I assume it was edited
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>>84709416
So, question.
Time flies like four times slower here.
How come they get out in just a few minutes instead of hours or days?
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>>84709651
The same reason Knothole being 3 hours in the future never amounts to anything when it's even a thing: because Penders forgets things he wrote
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>>84709591
That was really common when the editor jumped in.
If you try reading it without that caption you'll notice that Ken expected readers to carry a thought from panel 1 to 3. The editor's caption states the obvious and repeats the end of panel 1.
This is what we call "lazy editing".
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>>84709766
Oh, I didn't know that
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>>84709798
It's inference. You see it in other stories around this time and it's always in comic-sans...and it's ALWAYS condescending and pointless.
Worst example I can think of is Super Special #4.
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Issue 19 is a go go and this arc introduces one of my personal favorite characters. Shame it has so much of one of my least favorite
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Oh look it's Geoffrey St Shitter and Penders' cat
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Oh boy it's Geoffrey's team of completely fucking boring secret agents that Penders wanted to push ahead of the FFs
>>84710420
My mistake, I thought from the thumbnail Hershey was there
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>>84706865
>that habit of starting sentences on one page and finishing them as a transition is cool the first 3 times, but almost every scene has it.
Giffen did it in JL3000, and it got grating there too.
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Words cannot describe how much I fucking despise Locke as a character
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Introducing Prince Fuccboi I mean Salie-I mean Elias
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I like how Elias ages up dramatically the second this arc is over.
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>>84712367
Puberty hit him (And Antoine) like a goddamn semi.
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Just 11 more issues.... just 11 more and I'm free
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>>84712394
And Bunnie.
Like holy shit, even outside of Butler/Axer and after the end of the shit years, she flipped from a slightly stocky kid to a top heavy model. Her entire center of gravity shifted.
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>>84712599
I remember this particular issue was the first I saw in store. I thought, "Holy shit, a Knuckles comic! I can't wait to read about his adventures!"
"...oh."
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>>84712970
KNUCKLES THE ECHIDNA:
DRAMA,
ACTION,
PEOPLE STANDING IN ROOMS AND TALKING ABOUT NOTHING OF VALUE
Honestly I think that's the reason most people bought these comics, and the main comics as well. They loved Sonic, thought the comics were like the games or SaTAM, and then got this
>>
I always thought it'd be a really neat twist if it turned out that this Tobor was the real one and the one Knucles met at first was an imposter trying to fuck over the Brotherhood
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>>84713076
Didn't mean to quote you there, sorry
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>>84713022
Yeah, as a kid I could barely stomach Sonic's comic because of all the FF shit and Sonic appearing maybe 20% of the time. (To be honest, it still has that problem, better writing or not. I just don't find most of these characters compelling or interesting.)
So thankfully I had the better sense not to pick up "Pender's World of Enchiladas: Guest Starring Knuckles The Echidna".
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>>84713273
Honestly, as someone who was raised entirely on the games and only got into them a couple years ago, the FFs were never a big problem for me (In fact they quickly became one of my favorite parts), my problem, at least with the pre-reboot, was how up its own ass it was with shit that was completely unneeded, like the melodrama, romance, politics, and getting a bit too dark at times.
Thankfully the reboot fixed a lot of that, and while it's not at its best right now, I'd rather have that than the pre-reboot world again and all the bullshit that came with it
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By the way, from here on out, the book's quality nosedives even HARDER
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This issue is quite infamous for two reasons
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This being one of them
Yes, Penders DID just plagiarize a Holocaust poem and edit to "fit" into Sonic's Universe
Yes, he DOES claim it's not plagiarism
Yes, he DOES still defend it to this day and claim that it was somehow relevant
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>>84714029
Penders lifting the "Stand-up" quote is what I vividly remember from this part of "The Ride".
>>
At least one good thing came from this: the first appearence of fan favorite Lien Da. And the fact that she's a fan favorite has pretty much nothing to do with Penders himself
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>>84714089
>Yes, Penders DID just plagiarize a Holocaust poem and edit to "fit" into Sonic's Universe
If Ian were to do this today, he would get fired for it. Just goes to show how much of a shit they didn't give back then.
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>>84714322
He later also rips off the Millenium Falcon and a Klingon ship. Not in this series, but in the main comic
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>>84713394
Oh don't get me wrong, Ian cleaned up a lot of shit and made the comic at least readable again. (Despite my gripes with his style of writing.) I mean, I don't hate the FF, but I don't see what's so enthralling about them either.
I dunno, maybe what I really want is an actual reboot and a fresh start from the SatAM cast. Even the current cast is starting to bloat up again with Literally Who's and Donut Steels. I know it'll never happen though, because it would alienate too many readers.
I also know it'll never happen because Archie's financial situation is less than ideal, but a side series like Sonic Mega Drive would be a breath of fresh air.
>>84714548
#DingoLivesMatter ?
>>84715078
SIEG HEIL
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>>84715106
>I mean, I don't hate the FF, but I don't see what's so enthralling about them either.
I think it's part nostalgia and part them being the only people in the main cast who are actually allowed to undergo character development. Also, as weird as it is to say considering how many there are, the games cast alone can't support an ongoing comic, and the main reason is that a lot of them are just really situational and hard to fit into any given story. I get the bloated complaints, but at the same time it feels like most of the new characters have some semblance of a point now and that instead of introducing more, things will actually be done with them in the future
I don't know, maybe it's my optimism. Also yeah, I'd like a Mega Drive ongoing, or at least quarterly series, and considering how Mega Drive was the first Sonic comic to ever sell out, that's looking very likely
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>>84715360
And I just realized that that quote was ripped right from Mein Kampf. Penders is just full of surprises
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>>84715002
>Make a redundant character that's the most cliche kind of femme fatale ever, right down to leather and whips.
>Don't proportion her attractively or draw her cute.
>Barely even use her.
What's the point? I don't get it.
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>>84715419
The last issue uses Churchill, I believe.
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>>84715521
So he could have a female villain for the sake of calling himself "progressive" . At least later writers made her interesting
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>>84715521
an antagonist for julie-su and heir to dimitri, she is eventually drawn kinda cute by others
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>>84715647
And that amounts to fuckall under Penders, because she never succeeds Dimitri and just kind of gives up in Mobius 25 Years Later and has a kid with an unknown father
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>>84715647
>an antagonist for julie-su and heir to dimitri
He didn't decide on that until later. She got retconned into the family.
In her debut, she's just a pointless nazi with no name (people legit thought her name was "Kommissar" for years).
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This has the subtlety and grace of a sack of bricks hitting you in the face at 200 mph
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>>84715969
Espio, truer words have never been spoken
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>>84715243
>I think it's part nostalgia and part them being the only people in the main cast who are actually allowed to undergo character development.
Yeah, that occurred to me as I was replying before, and it explains why writers want to have so many supporting characters. Considering how autistic Sega is about how they portray Sonic, it's a miracle we get anything halfway decent at all. That said, I think restraint is always necessary. If you make a character, make them count, or at the very least make me care about them.
>the games cast alone can't support an ongoing comic
Certainly not. I just wish they'd focus more on them and less on the supporting cast of OCs, that's all.
>I get the bloated complaints, but at the same time it feels like most of the new characters have some semblance of a point now
I agree it's better than what Penders would shit out, but it still doesn't strike me as necessary to have that many characters. But then-
>and that instead of introducing more, things will actually be done with them in the future
-if Ian is setting up something big, then I hope it happens sooner rather than later. And I hope everything pays off in the end, because for me, right now, I don't see it.
>I don't know, maybe it's my optimism.
Nah, you seem to be on the level about this. I'm just too idealistic (more like autistic) for my own good I guess. Maybe, juuust maybe, I might be expecting too much from a children's video game character comic book adaptation series.
>Also yeah, I'd like a Mega Drive ongoing, or at least quarterly series, and considering how Mega Drive was the first Sonic comic to ever sell out, that's looking very likely
Man I hope so. Because as I was saying above, I feel like Mega Drive is a glimpse into what could be a truly great Sonic comic, even if it's as basic as it is right now.
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>>84716002
>-if Ian is setting up something big, then I hope it happens sooner rather than later. And I hope everything pays off in the end, because for me, right now, I don't see it.
Considering issue 300 is right around the corner, I see at least a bit of payoff before then and then maybe during 300 as well. That's just the kind of thing I expect from him
>Yeah, that occurred to me as I was replying before, and it explains why writers want to have so many supporting characters. Considering how autistic Sega is about how they portray Sonic, it's a miracle we get anything halfway decent at all. That said, I think restraint is always necessary. If you make a character, make them count, or at the very least make me care about them.
Very true, and at least in my opinion, I think the reboot has done a fine job of that. I can see why you'd think differently
>Certainly not. I just wish they'd focus more on them and less on the supporting cast of OCs, that's all.
I wish this sometimes too, which is why I appreciate Universe so much (That and it's always been the better book between it and the main book) , but I do wish it'd happen a bit more in the main book.
>I agree it's better than what Penders would shit out, but it still doesn't strike me as necessary to have that many characters. But then-
I've gotten that feeling at some points too. I see why it's easy to get that feeling now too, since we're dicking around all over the planet, so naturally we'll run into a lot of people and it feels crowded. Once Unleashed finishes, I think it'll at least get a bit more focused on the main cast and won't feel so bloated.
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>>84716002
I actually consider the Megadrive comics the exact opposite of how to run a good comic.
It's just a skeleton. Sonic the franchise has grown beyond 5 characters.
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>>84716284
For a standalone nostalgia thing it's fine. I don't think it could support a longterm monthly ongoing like the main book or Universe. Perhaps an annual or quarterly release would work
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>>84716331
I wouldn't mind that. I just can't see how something like that could stand on it's own two feet as a long-running comic.
I consider OCs and the like a necessary evil when making these types of comic.
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>>84716331
Forgot pic.
Also skipping the last 3 pages, since they're not important and this way I can fit one more issue into this thread.Plus starting the next thread on THAT issue is too good of an oppourtunity to pass up
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>>84711777
So much stupid shit happens in this comic that I mentally checked out and forgot to point out that Penders and/or his editors don't know what "Triangulate" means.
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>>84716582
>>84716632
Those fucking jaws and clenched teeth
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Oh by the way, since that "secret" is NEVER elaborated on in the comic: it's that Remington is Kragok's son
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>>84716675
Oh wait, I said it on the wrong page, but whatever
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>>84716536
>>84716582
Julie-Su's face and speech bubble do not match up at all.
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>>84716205
>Very true, and at least in my opinion, I think the reboot has done a fine job of that. I can see why you'd think differently
I think Ian handled it well enough. I just think he's starting to toe the line with how many characters there are.
>I wish this sometimes too, which is why I appreciate Universe so much (That and it's always been the better book between it and the main book) , but I do wish it'd happen a bit more in the main book.
Yep, Universe was the perfect solution to my gripes and it's a great way to have characters that wouldn't normally interact have little moments. (Like the Rouge and Amy bits in the recent issue.)
>I've gotten that feeling at some points too. I see why it's easy to get that feeling now too, since we're dicking around all over the planet, so naturally we'll run into a lot of people and it feels crowded. Once Unleashed finishes, I think it'll at least get a bit more focused on the main cast and won't feel so bloated.
Yeah, probably. Ian works better in smaller scale stories I think.
Sorry about sperging up your storytime by the way. I'm just killing time till the 25 anniversary stream starts.
>>84716284
>It's just a skeleton. Sonic the franchise has grown beyond 5 characters.
In my defense, I did say it was "basic". Obviously a comic consisting of five characters wouldn't go anywhere fast. And again, I'm mostly talking conceptually here. A comic such as this could grow into something really cool given proper world building. Also I don't have anything against the game's extended cast. Quite the opposite. I think they can all serve a purpose just fine in the right hands.
>>84716376
>I consider OCs and the like a necessary evil when making these types of comic.
Absolutely, as long as they're pieces that fit into a larger whole. There has to be a balance, that's all I'm saying.
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>>84716284
In terms of method and cast, you're wrong. There's no problem with a tiny core cast.
The problem with Mega Drive is shit dialogue and predictable plotting.
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>>84717027
>I think Ian handled it well enough. I just think he's starting to toe the line with how many characters there are.
Agreed, though I have the feeling he's gonna dial it back a lot once Unleashed wraps up.
>Yeah, probably. Ian works better in smaller scale stories I think.
Couldn't agree more. His shorter stories are his best ones
>Sorry about sperging up your storytime by the way. I'm just killing time till the 25 anniversary stream starts.
God no, don't feel bad at all. This discussion is actually making my job a lot easier, since it breaks up the monotony a bit.
Also speaking of the stream, I'll probably be taking a break after issue 27 or 28 for that reason, also for dinner
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>>84714089
The moment I've been waiting for.
The Knuckles comic has seen some bad ideas, but nothing comes close to this.
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Wow this thread's sped up a lot. Hopefully we keep this momentum for next thread, since it has THAT issue to start off
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Does anyone have that image where Knuckles explains his lineage with Sonic ends up as blue knuckles or something like that? It was funny as hell.
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>>84717127
Sounds good m8.
>>84717086
Ian wrote that comic, didn't he? If there were a Mega Drive ongoing/annual/quarterly/whatever, I think a new writer might be a good idea for it. Might help it differentiate itself from the main series too.
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>>84717252
Oh, I know the image you're talking about, with Knuckles as Red Sonic. Don't have it on me and don't have enough images to spare here even if I did
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>>84717327
>Ian wrote that comic, didn't he? If there were a Mega Drive ongoing/annual/quarterly/whatever, I think a new writer might be a good idea for it. Might help it differentiate itself from the main series too.
Yeah. Honestly I could agree with that. Let Ian and co handle the main two books, and put someone else on Mega Drive, maybe use it as a testing ground for new talent. Kind of like Boom was shaping up to be and what X ended up being.I miss the Boom comic
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>>84714212
>the fact that she's a fan favorite has pretty much nothing to do with Penders himself
That seems to describe a good number of characters. I'm thinking of the Iron Queen right now, but I'm not sure if I should call her a "fan favorite".
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>>84717401
Even if it did, Penders didn't make her. Frank Strom did, and he also made Monkey Khan, who is certainly not a fan favorite
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>>84717332
Oh yeah that was it.
>don't have enough images to spare here even if I did
Don't sweat it man, I would do the same thing if I were you. Still, thanks for reminding.
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>>84717442
No problemo.
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>>84717393
I liked Boom too, actually. Fell flat a lot of times, but it wasn't too bad.
Sonic X was actually the only thing to have that name that I even remotely enjoyed. I tried re-watching that anime a few months back, and even subbed it's just awful.
Also, let's say you wished on a monkey's paw for a new Sonic comic writer: Who does it give you? (Hard mode: not Penders)
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>>84717575
It'd probably give me Bendis or Scott Lobdell. Or god forbid, the one asshole who wrote the Mega Man Zero manga (I may do that next year, though that's more /a/ I guess)
Also true, Boom did fall flat a lot, but I still enjoyed it because it was a nice breather between issues of the regular books and was pretty funny at times
The X comics were a lot better than the actual show and honestly i can't not like a comic with Luchador Eggman
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THE MADNESS CONTINUES
>>84717811
>>84717811
>>84717811
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