Why doesn't Marvel use any of their shit from Malibu?

They don't want to pay royalties or fees or something is the most common theory, though they've claimed that that's not the case.

>>84257039
This. Whatever the real reason is, they either can't talk about it because of legal reasons, or won't.

>>84257039
>>84257057
Damn, that sucks. Do royalties ever expire? Also, what about the comics that Malibu has the rights to write for, how do those rules work. Do they go away after a set amount of time, or do they stay with the company till another company buys it?

>>84256643
Aside from what's already been said in this thread, THEY TRIED TO USE THEM BACK IN THE MID 90s AND IT WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST FLOPS IN THE COMPANY'S HISTORY.

THAT'S the REAL reason why you'll never see them again. They already tried and it failed HARD.

>>84257465
>Mid 90's.

Everything was shit in comics then, this should mean nothing. Also, Malibu owns MIB, you'd think Marvel would attempt to cash in the movies somehow.

>>84257418
Maybe after the creators are dead.

This is just rumors since nothing is confirmed, but supposedly the Malibu contracts include profit-sharing for the creators. Make a new Prime comic, you gotta give the Prime creators a cut. They were trying to compete with Marvel and DC, and needed to give writers and artists incentive to sign with them. Since Marvel bought Malibu, they still have to honor those contracts.

What outside properties has Marvel bought then actually used?

I can list some of the ones that DC has, but I don't know Marvel as well.

>>84257465
Well tried in the loosest sense. With things like Mantra they completely changed everything to the point where it was that comic in name only.

>>84257704
I honestly can't think of anything else they straight-up bought like DC. They use to do a lot of licensed like Conan and creator-owned stuff through Epic decades ago. From what has been said, the Malibu sale was mostly because of their computer coloring process which was better than Marvel and DC at the time.

There was a brief Crossgen revival that went nowhere, but Crossgen was bought by Disney well before the Marvel purchase.

>>84257704

Angela.

>>84258180
Oh yeah, there's that.

I honestly forgot she existed.

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This was one of Marvel's few pre-MCU live-action shows.

>>84257465
was it post crash or pre crash?

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>>84257465
Marvel only wanted Malibu for their high end digital coloring technology, they couldn't have cared less about any of the characters or their legacies. I almost want to think that they intentionally sabataged the whole operation, but I'm sure the comic book crash of the late 90's did that for them

I love the Malibu Ultraverse and it's really sad to see something that had such great promise fizzle out into absolutely fuck-all nothing

>>84258457
>I almost want to think that they intentionally sabataged the whole operation, but I'm sure the comic book crash of the late 90's did that for them

That is what happened, Malibu was on its last legs anyways and was looking for someone to buy them. DC nearly did it.

>>84256643
They literally only purchased Malibu because they wanted the digital coloring software Malibu had exclusive rights to.

I'm not even joking.

>>84258519
I'm aware of that, Marvel was like a salvating lion, licking it's lips over a wounded prey that it could easily exploit. I think with Disney owning Marvel lock-stock-and-barrel now, we'll probably never see the Ultraverse ever again except maybe for something like what they did with Big Hero 6

>>84258610
When Jim Shooter was EiC he had the logos of competing companies he'd helped kill painted in silhouette along a wall in the Bullpen, the way fighter jets used to.

I think it was less ego and more a method of intimidating workers there from thinking of jumping ship.

>>84257704
As one anon already mentioned, Angela.

Also, Miracleman/Marvelman (brought in as part of the same deal that got Marvel the rights to Angela), although for now it's its own thing and not part of the MU proper.

In a loose sense, Shang-Chi was also an "outside property" given that he was originally created by Marvel as part of a licensing tie-up with the Sax Rohmer estate, although Marvel eventually was able to maintain full ownership of the character after its licensing deal with the Rohmer estate expired.

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>>84258651
The more I hear about Shooter, the less I seem to like him. I used to think he was god's gift to comic books, but I'm far too red-pilled now to believe in him anymore

Still though, you have to admit that he did have a real knack for the business

Hm, I kinda liked a few of the guys from this.

Namely Ghoul, Prototype, Jack-O-Lantern,and Nightman.

That was it.

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Rights probably expired by now, but it would still be fun.

>>84259850
>>>/a/

>>84259850

Aren't her parents Supes and WW?

>>84259896
Yeah.

>>84257465
Anon, They've done New Universe like THREE times after it flopped so hard the first time that it got Jim Shooter fired.

>>84259877
It has enough references to /co/mics to be considered.

>>84259806
Rune and Sludge are two of my favorites from the line. Rune is a vampire that feeds off of Ultrahuman abilities and Sludge is probably the best thing Steve Gerber has ever written

Prime, Hardcase, and Prototype also pretty good for what they are. And yeah, I fucking love me some Nightman too

>>84259991

Oh yeah, Sludge was neat too.

Even though my only experience with him, like all Malibu characters, was that awful cartoon.

Oh, and the Nightman show. That was fun.

>>84260014
>Oh, and the Nightman show. That was fun.
I used to watch re-runs of it on WGN growing up as the show was what got me so incredibly interested in the Ultraverse to begin with. Fucking love the theme song too
https://youtu.be/k5ivkpirHBk

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>>84258327
>Nightman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_JUlXh7sP8

I JUST WANT THEM TO GIVE IDW THE MEN IN BLACK

IS A MIB/GHOSTBUSTERS CROSSOVER TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR?

>>84260209
Does Marvel still have them?

Or did they revert to the creator?

>>84260209
Dark Horse is much better suited to handle MIB. Specifically the comic version.

>Alien vs Predator vs MIB when?

They should just do what DC does with Vertigo.

>>84260228
As far as I know, MIB was created by a guy named Barry Blair for Aircel (a former insulation company funded by the canadian government that was turned into a comic book publisher via Barry's advice after funding ceased), Aircel was later purchased by Malibu Graphics

Barry died a couple of years ago and I'm really sure who even has the rights to the series anymore

>>84260297
So they could technically do some MIB? How would it fit with Marvel? Maybe some reality warping event that writes them into continuity?

>SHIELD vs MIB.

>>84260335
Yeah but you know who is making the MIB movies
Disney doesn't like competition

>>84260335
Wasn't there an issue of MIB where they tried to deal with a rogue agent turned superhero?

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>>84259779
>red pilled

go back to your containment board

>>84261256
MIB was set in the Malibu universe. They had several off hand references to the super heroes saying that's just what ends up happening when they don't do their job correctly.

>>84261406
This gives me ideas. Can we have a Tumblr containment board? /pc/-Politically Correct. Both /pol/ and Tumblr would leave this board alone since they'd be constantly bitching that the other board exists.

>>84261256

There was an episode of the cartoon where an alien immigrant decided to become a superhero.

>>84257494
MIB was unrelated to the Ultraverse, it was creator-owned. Marvel has nothing to do with it.

>>84260335
S.W.O.R.D is basically MIB.

>>84264892
But MIB is cooler.

>>84258519
>DC nearly did it.
That's what gets me, I have NO love for these sort of things but when DC buys someone at least they use them. Captain Marvel, Wildstorm, so on.

It's not always used to the best effect, hell often the characters are in many ways intentionally undermined for DC properties but still they exist, they live. When Marvel found Malibu on life support they bought the hospital, cut the machines off and then bought them a place in the morgue.

I just really wish they'd come out and say what the actual deal is. Everyone thinks it's royalties/profit sharing but then Marvel or whoever insists that no that's not it at all and there are bigger reasons why but they can't say.

It's just really fucking annoying.

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It would be nice to see what a modern Prime would be like.

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>>84256643
Couldn't be any worse than Udon's work.

>>84270658
It's surprisingly hard to have an opinion on this.

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>>84270658
>we'll never get a Marvel written Street Fighter Vs Mortal Kombat

>>84270658

How the hell is Balrog the least offensive looking face on that cover?

>>84257418
There really should be a requirement that rights related contracts be available to the public

>>84266838
To be fair dident it take dc a few years to use captain marvel and they mostly just brought it to remove the competition.

>>84259779
Unlike bob Kane his bad traits aren't right there on the surface

>>84271822
Good analogy though

>>84270658
Ken lookin swole as fuck

>>84257465
I still have like 40 Prototype comics. Such a good book.

>>84270658
I have this comic. Art isn't amazing but the writing wasn't that bad. Kinda want to find the rest of the series.

As already stated, common belief is that it's related to the contracts surrounding the Malibu Ultraverse characters, which are the only ones Marvel has the rights to through the purchase. Malibu's earlier superhero universe (with the Protectors et al) was based on characters from the golden age that were already in the public domain in the 90s, so Marvel can't claim copyright to those. And Malibu's licensed comics are obviously also out of bounds.

So that leaves the Ultraverse and a few odd titles. Now the concept behind the Ultraverse was to start a universe similar to how Image did it where each creator had a share in their creation that would always stay with them regardless of creative team or publishing changes. The difference between Image and Malibu was that Malibu headhunted a team of long-term writers instead of artists to create their universe, and so you got people like Steve Englehart, Steve Gerber, Gerard Jones, James Robinson and Mike W. Barr building the Ultraverse up from the ground. Each one also had a share in their characters which lasts for perpetuity, or at least as long as the creator(s) still live. This did not change when Marvel bought out Malibu to get their computer coloring studio, so even now if Marvel wants to use or reprint an Ultraverse character they'd have to credit the original team and pay them money.

Now this is not uncommon. It also applies to characters created at Marvel. For instance, every time someone uses Wolverine Len Wein gets a small ping of money. But this is where we enter the realm of hearsay and rumor. Allegedly the powers that be at Marvel are reluctant to pay royalties to the Ultraverse creators because they went to a different company to create these characters. couple that with the fact that there isn't a lot of interest in the Ultraverse and that means it's pretty much buried. In fact, we have yet to see any Marvel publication even reference the Ultraverse so far.

>>84256643
Simple Answer: Too much money to hire talent to reboot a whole line of comics with almost zero brand recognition.


It was that corporate plunder mentality that had Marvel buy them up. Less competition, more profits.

>>84271935

True or false? Who knows. Some of the Ultraverse creators have since returned to do work for Marvel and are/were apparently on okay terms with them. Gerber came back and brought Howard the Duck back with him, and Englehart returned to do more stuff with Hellcat and Mantis in the 00s. The characters themselves languish in limbo, however, not even getting any profiles in the numerous Marvel Handbooks. And even in stories which should mention the Ultraverse, it's strangely absent. For instance the history of the Infinity Gems in the modern Marvel cosmic totally ignores the gems being in the Ultraverse and becoming sentient there.

I personally kinda like the Ultraverse characters but I realize the chances of a revival are very slim by now.

>>84271935
>>84271958
Gawdayum shame.
I'd have accepted the Strangers and Ultras taking helm over Mutants and Inhumans, but I guess Marvel doesn't want anyone seeing money but them.

>>84271958
I wish we could see the contracts then we could know for sure

>>84272103
>>84272001

Yeah. Marvel has stated that this is definitely not about the money, but I don't trust them at all in the matter.

Also i'm not sure I'd trust anyone but Gerber to do a good Sludge, and they probably wouldn't be able to do mantra well either (seeing as how they swept her controversial aspects under the rug instantly upon taking control of the Malibu comics).

Black September was such a horrible mess.

Spider-Prime had a cameo in Spider-Verse.

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Mantra was awesome and you can't convince me otherwise.

>>84273530
The concept wasn't bad. Not simply the genderswap, but his getting stuck with Eden's kids and not getting to just walk out on the life of the person whose body he's just stolen like he'd always done in the past. But the comic itself wasn't so great.

>>84273530
Matra was a good idea, probably almost too ahead of it's time. And while I do like cheesecake, Matra kind of took it near absurd levels, even going so far as lesbianism between Eve and that sex robot from The Strangers

>>84273836
I feel the same way with Prime, good concept, but it reads more like a character study

>>84274019
>And while I do like cheesecake, Matra kind of took it near absurd levels, even going so far as lesbianism between Eve and that sex robot from The Strangers

Well, it was part of the character. Lukasz still had male urges.

>>84259779
There were reasons he wasn't liked by some of the people he actually worked for, and not just because he was a control freak.

>>84273836
>>84274019

Mantra's costume was ridiculous and horribly out of character and I think that really hurt the series.

>>84257418
>Do royalties ever expire?

Royalties are the fees paid on a work when it's used. Like when a radio station broadcasts a record - they pay a fee to whoever owns it or to an agent collecting on their behalf. A royalty fee, which is determined by the contract the creators/owners signed.

Ownership - whether the copyright, trademark, or intellectual property - can be transferred just as objects can be bought or sold. There are legal limits on all of these - trademarks need to be renewed and must be legally distinct, for example, which is why Transformers often have their faction name appended to the single-word name that they're usually referred to (such as Autobot Jazz). Copyright expires after various periods (for older works, some have been out of copyright and come back in, others have gone into the public domain, and so on and so forth) because of different copyright laws in different eras, reflecting nations coming together to unify their copyright agreements and afford the same (or roughly the same) protections internationally.

For works created in the 1990s, there's a very long time left to run on copyright, but the creators may not have wholly owned their works at Malibu - they may have sold the better part of them to Malibu in return for getting published. Marvel (Quesada and Brevoort) have said that there is a percentage (believed to be 5%) of sales payable to Malibu creators when Marvel uses the characters, but that this is not what is holding them back from being used - so what's going on there we don't really know.

If I had to guess, I'd say the rights to that 5% are all held by one former Malibu editor and Marvel don't want to give him the money, because nobody who did any creative work would get paid. Presumably, there's also a period at which these characters revert to their creators through non-use.

>>84271804
>private agreements should be made public

You'd be opening up every business to very damaging scrutiny. Lot of individuals too.

>>84258071
>There was a brief Crossgen revival that went nowhere, but Crossgen was bought by Disney well before the Marvel purchase.
Shame that the CrossGen Universe hadn't given a proper ending (presumably destroyed by an Incursion).

>>84274520

Shame Crossgen's publisher was a piece of shit who eviscerated the company and nobody got paid for it. There's still creators out there who got no money for their CG work

>>84258071
Oy. That Ruse reboot Waid did. Setting it in actual England like that. Didn't he realize the thing that made Ruse so charming in the first place was the fantastical setting? Putting it in England just turned it into a penny ante Sherlock Holmes fanfic.

>>84274618
Crossgen was so good though for real.
I still give Meridian to people trying to get into comics and it works 100% of the time

>>84274838

That's why it's so heart-wrenching that it was (ironically) all a ruse. The meta story was great, most of the individual titles were great, the talent was great.

>>84274671
It was always that, except with shipbait male and female leads

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Giselle from Mystic tho.

That one bare foot hnnngh

>>84274890
>shipbait

They bickered and bantered, but I have a hard time seeing anything romantic between them in the context of the story. And I really don't think Waid wrote them as such.

>Crossgen

Man, it's so weird knowing that there was a (relatively) big comic book company HQ a couple miles out from where I live. I got into comics around 2007, well after it had died.

>>84274473
Interesting stuff, I'm sure all the info is available on wikipedia or something but thanks all the same for summarizing and contextualizing it.

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>>84258180
>Why the hell won't Marvel use their Ultraverse characters?
>When are they going to bring back Crossgen, fuck these guys. Why did they even buy this shit if they weren't going to use it?
>They get the rights to Angela
>And announce they're actually going to use her
Sometimes, dead is better.