Tom King/David Finch Batman

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>best Batman run since Morrison

urg.No.

Batman #1 was underwhelming m8. Obviously I'm sticking around for at least the first arc and probably more (as long as the first arc isn't AWFUL) but it felt like a pretty standard Bat comic.

I may have expected too much looking for King's Vision in a Batman comic but I was hoping it would be a bit more cerebral. But like I said, only the first issue. Omega Men's first issue isn't stellar either.

>>83956067

>Best Batman run since the run before last...

>>83956067
Yeah, I'm really hype for it. I really wanna see what he'll do with Gotham & Gotham Girl, first issue was really nicely structured and intriguing.

>>83956139
it was the same for Grayson, people only started praising it after some issues

#1 wasn't good though and I'm dropping the book

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Between this and Tec it looks like I read Batman again.

It was really underwhelming dude, I say that as someone who really likes Tom King's writing.

I'm giving it a full arc, but if it doesn't get better I'll probably drop it.

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>>83956067
Was getting caught shilling part of your plan?

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>>83956067

Hope the art improves a little...but maybe I just miss capullo.

Goddamn it though that guy was meant for batman. Its like all those years of doing shitty ass spawn were training for when he moved on to a real comic book.
Cos fuck spawn.

>>83956067
I think you're being very generous. I'm sure it'll be good but you should join the rest of us on earth, son.

I really enjoyed it and am looking forward to more. Batman and Green Arrow both look really promising.

>>83956253

What's going on with Tec? It's still Tynion right? He has historically not blown me away.

>>83956316
Too bad he was a shitty redesigner

>>83956328
Best since Morrison just means better than Snyder, really.

>>83956098
My reaction

>>83956139
It doesn't matter, Kingfags are the human shit of /co right now.

>>83956402
Snyder who outsold Morrison by a fuckton. And Black Mirror is still better than any arc from Morrison's clusterfuck of a run.

>>83956215
It was better than Snyder's whole run.

Man, I was hoping to finally get into Batman comics with this new creative team, but I had to drop it after #1 came out because there are just way too many good comics to pick up, especially in the upcoming months.

>>83956485
It really wasn't.

>>83956478
>outsold

No one cares

>>83956302
>tumblr
noone asked you

>>83956526
I worded it wrong. That single issue was better than every single issue from Snyder's whole run.

>>83956478
>outsold

That doesn't mean anything. Why is your generation no fixated on money? You have no soul.

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>>83956067
Yes, it feels good to finally read Batman again. I really thought we'd get stuck in a Slott situation.

>>83956478

The Monkees outsold the Beatles and the Rolling Stones in 67. Sales mean dick in a discussion of quality.

>all these butthurt Snyderfags

Pro tip, if you didn't bow out after Zero Year you are a fucking pleb with shit taste.

>>83956727
But Zero Year was his best story, why would you stop reading right after that

>Snyder + Cappullo
>King + Finch

Is the lord really so cruel that it couldn't have been King + Cappullo?

>>83956761
No his best story is Black Mirror and because everything after Zero Year was mediocre to absolute shit.

>>83956784
it's just like with Morrison

good writer, bad artist combination

>>83956067
It only needs to be better than Snyder then which isnt too hard

>>83956837
Son, you best not be bad mouthing Quitely.

>>83956837

But Morrison regularly works with the best artists in the industry. He just needs the occasional garbage for fill-ins because the best artist in the industry take their sweet time.

Action Comics is the exception of course. Rags turned a 10 into a 7.

>>83956837
>>83956875
This. I will literally kill you. Quitely is the best in the biz.

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>>83956478
>Snyder outsold Morrison
Are you fucking really using this as a mark of quality
And no, The Black Glove and Dickbats Batman and Robin are as good

>>83956881
I liked Rags alot for the early issues. His art has a 30's vibe.
Once it got trippy he was not the best choice though.

>>83956938
>>83956995
BANE?

>>83957020
Whoops

>>83956497
Bury it. Consider this mercy.

>>83956627
How do you know anon's generation

>>83957091
Because the generation under the milennials is the one that constantly uses sales and reviews to dictate what they think is good or bad instead of their own opinions. They don't know how to form arguments to support their basis.

>>83956837
Get a load of this moron.
Quitely when teamed up with morrison I will openly state is the best writer/artist combo in modern comics. I challenge anyone to find me a better pairing than those two guys. Then go read pax americana and realize you were wrong.

>>83957145
Oh quit being a mewling fag. You have no idea what generation that or any of those morons are from. You just guess based in not liking their opinions.
Christ when did this place become a fucking factory floor of spluttering retards and self important dip shits like this guy?

"Oh well if he says this that I don't like I bet he's from dis generation. So yong and stupid unlike me right guys!?"

>>83957269
>>83956875
>such shit tastes

his humans barely look humans, they look like mash potato given humanoid form

>>83957390
>Quitely is shit
>Comics are supposed to look realistic
Two awful opinions in one post!

>>83957339
Kek spotted the triggered sub millennial. Maybe stop being such an idiot and thinking that sales and reviews dictate quality little guy.

>>83957390
Wow. This may be the worst opinion I've seen on /co/ all day.

>Y'all ready for the best Batman run since Morrison?

This is how people start to hate King. This bullshit hype nonsense.

>>83957489
That literally only means are you readyfor a run better than Snyders. Which is not by any means a high bar to jump over.

I'm getting serious ONeil vibes from King's run. A back to basics approach.

>>83957522
I completely blanked there's only been Snyder on Batman between the two but seriously this is how people start hating King, he becomes overhyped and popular and /co/ turns on him. I just want him to tell his story for a while before I judge him.

>>83957597
Don't worry about /co/ turning on him, he's talented so it's inevitable. Just like people on this board hate on Morrison and Moore. If they are talented, /co/ will eventually hate them.

>>83956478
Black Mirror is so overrated it's laughable. Snyder a shit. No depth or intrigue, heavy, edgy exposition. Perfect for Nolan babbies.

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>>83956959
>the early issues

>>83956881
>Action Comics is the exception of course. Rags turned a 10 into a 7.

Such a shame, it's appalling. Morrison and fans deserved better.

>>83957640
>it's inevitable
This makes me so sad. /co/ will literally turn on creators and books because they're good. I hope we can get a few arcs in before that happens.

>>83956959
He didn't even draw a lot of the later stuff though

>>83957681
This, people who love Nolan Batman love Snyder. It's strange

>>83957681
No. Black Mirror is great. The problem is Snyder just aped it over and over again throughout his run both in tone and structure so it seems worse in retrospect but still a 10/10 Dickbats story.

>>83957681
Dickbats in general is overrated but this place thinks with its Dick, both of them, so it gets a pass

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>>83957785
Yep, normie Batman. What casuals think Batman is. Pic unfortunately related.

>>83957862
I don't see how it's great besides Jock and FF's beautifully tense, dark art. It's a run of the mill Batman story.

>>83957889
In Morrison's hands Dick was perfect. Fun and fancy free Batman to Robin's dour intensity. Should/could still be the status quo today.

>>83956627
More money means people liked it and DC is very willing to let Snyder do more things, anon.

>>83957978
It's about Dick coming to terms that he is Batman and readjusting to the monster that is Gotham that he has to wrestle with alone. As you said the art is beautiful as well which really helps but The Dealer and the secret society of rich people and what not were great at the time.

Again you think its run of the mill now because we've had the secret society in Gotham story so many times now but back then it had only been done once or twice before.

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>>83956627
>tfw can't tell if this is real or not

>>83957998
More money means more people bought it. The New 52 was a jumping on point so a lot of new readers had no reference for quality.

If all you ever eat is shit you don't know what lobster is suppose to taste like.

ITT
>snyder is bad, no snyder is great, fuck i don't even know anymore
>morrison and quitely is like GOD CUMMING ON MY FACE GIVE ME MORE
>King only has two issues out, but we'll judge the fuck out of it anyways

can you give it a rest and realize the best batman runs are dennis o' neil, peter milligan's and doug moench's?

>>83958226
Who is arguing ONeil's run isn't the best? That's an objective fact.

>>83958226
Most of the people that praise Morrison started with him, they are the old casual that now act as experts because they were there back then.

>>83958226
King's Batman feels closer to O'Neil's in characterization than he's been in a long time, at least that's what I got from the first issue. That's why I'm looking forward to where this will go.

>>83958031
Sorry homie but it was a lesser Black Hand, just like the Owls

>>83958357
Well no shit but it was still good. You clearly don't love Dick.

>>83958384
Oh I love Dick. It was ok Dick, just not great Dick. But that's the thing about opinions, they're like assholes, we all have em and prefer different Dicks.

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>>83958556
>But that's the thing about opinions, they're like assholes, we all have em and prefer different Dicks.

>>83958349
>King's Batman feels closer to O'Neil's in characterization
O'Neil' is Top -King is flop

>>83958688
Hi, Damifag, how was you ban?

Man all the negativity toward king over bats 1. It wasn't the best ever story but I found it pretty exciting. It was a cool and slightly unusual thing for batman to do. It set the stage so the speak and ended with the set up for these two gotham supermen. Not mind blowing perfect but I enjoyed the read.
But it seems like because it wasn't as good as the very best batman story they've read it's just shit.

>>83958842
Same.

It's annoying as fuck, but you pretty much have to ignore /co/ when it comes to Batman runs. People's expectations are all over the place, and -- even though it's a "meme" said by creators of all types of media -- it's impossible to satisfy everyone, especially crazy autists like on /co/.

>>83958955
>you pretty much have to ignore /co/ when it comes to Batman runs.

>crazy autists

You really don't, unless it triggers you. Some prefer Snyder, other Morrison, O'Neil, etc. Not especially autistic.

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>>83959003
>Some prefer Snyder

>>83959028
I agree w/ that sentiment, was just being diplomatic.

>>83959003
but you really should ignore /co/'s opinion about Batman

this place is 75% people that hate Batman, 10% people that only read Batman for the batfamily and a 5% that actually knows and care about Batman comics

>>83959117
Lurk more

>>83959003
>>83959028
>>83959067

Meming aside and also trying to be diplomatic I really think that most of Snyder's fans (unlike O'Neil and Morrison) are people who aren't super familiar with Batman as a comic character.

I imagine your typical Snyder fanboy maybe grew up on TAS and then worshiped the Nolan movies and then read Year One, Dark Knight Returns and Killing Joke and now they're into Snyder. Loeb's Hush was the same way.

>>83956485
Posts like these are why i feel like King praise is more hype than anything else

>>83959205
Agreed wholeheartedly. Like Hush it's yet another repackaged greatest hits collection rather than a new album. For people that wanna listen to those same songs they remember, not fans of the band interested to see where they go next.

>>83959246

That's a Snyder hater more likely than it's a King cock sucker.

>>83959246
Not that anon but while it is hyperbolic, I agree. It was more interesting and better written, truer to characterization than anything from Snyder's run.

>>83956556

apparently somebody does, ass. see>>83956442

>>83956256
>It was really underwhelming dude, I say that as someone who really likes Tom King's writing.
THIS. So much this. He made me give a shit about Vision ffs!

But I didn't care for this at all: mediocre art ( although after Capullo anything not God Tier was gonnd chaff ); and mediocre writing.

I mean, seriously, you expect me to believe that The Goddamned Batman doesn't have a Batplane? Or, at the very least, the equivalent of a smartphone's gps that he could use to guide a plane in without needing to RIDE IT ALL THE WAY DOWN?

Yeesh.

>I'm giving it a full arc, but if it doesn't get better I'll probably drop it.
I dropped Justice League Dark and Grayson do to the Poser Art and the same artists ( who did Batman Rebirth ) is back for the second arc; so I just don't see the point.

'Tec is looking good so far though, so there's that.

>>83956627
Because, books that don't sell fail. And I'd rather see Batman crush books like all different avengers x-humans or what shit than see fucking whor outsell it because Tom King refuses to tone shit down.

>>83956067
I'm already enjoying King's run because it's clear in the first issue that he's going to explore the mentality and psychology of the character. not that that's a surprise, i think we all knew he would, but you need to do that in a Batman solo book.

meanwhile, it appears Detective is going be more Bat-Senpai-R-Us, which is fine if you're into that, but I'm not.

>>83959003
>Some prefer Snyder, other Morrison, O'Neil, etc. Not especially autistic.

But that's not what happens in terms of criticism. Compared to any other DC hero, Batman tends to draw out /co/ users who say, "WOW THIS RUN IS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICE BREAD!" or "HOLY SHIT HE'S LITERALLY DESTROYING THIS CHARACTER, GET THIS FUCKER OFF THE BOOK NOOOOOOOWWWW!"

It took like 2-3 years and 20+ issues before people could actually explain why they didn't like Snyder's run. Before that, if they didn't like it -- and they're allowed not to like it -- they'd just say "THIS IS WORST THING EVER".

Like I said, you have to ignore what /co/ says. Or, spend so much time reading between the lines that it gets exhausting. King's run is getting the same thing, both positively and negatively.

>>83956709
hahaha, the beatles? Listen, I know you have your head's so far up Tom King's...work that you can't read a sales chart. But King's books have tanked. At this point anything below 98,000 books an issue is under performing.

>>83956812
As opposed to the bizarre shit stain that was Omega Men. But hey, some people just like terrible stuff amiright?

>>83956837
Damn Morrison fans are dumb. FQ, JH Williams.

It's like you people don't have a single IQ point.

>>83956938
No, they are fucking not. Black Glove is a mess.

Snyder wrote the definitive dickbats story. Black mirror beats anything Morrison did with the character.

>>83957681
>Morrison is a shit. His run overrated. Meta commentary without plot or character work.

>>83959424
/co/ is not one person or a hivemind

I dropped Snyder after DotF and could tell you why then and now. I didnt enjoy his run. I do think Morrison's is masterful. It's fandom, people are adamant. It's ok. If you enjoy something well enough, it shouldnt matter, or get exhausting, no matter what other anons have to say about it.

This is a special case in that this is an enormous character who just had two very long runs from two very different creators, so the comparisons are almost inevitable.

>Morrison's run
>AREN'T COMICS CRAYZ ?! *wink wink*
>REFERENCE TO OLD COMICS! WHICH I GOT WRONG BUT WHATEVER?
>WHAT YOU WANTED TO READ ABOUT THIS CHARACTER? TOO BAD! HERE THE OC DAMIAN AND DICK!

call me a characterfag but if you read superhero comics you do it for the character.
you don't read Superman to know about Perry White but about Superman.

at least Snyder's run was more focused instead of just trying to leave a mark with some OC

>>83959424
>It took like 2-3 years and 20+ issues before people could actually explain why they didn't like Snyder's run.
Seriously? I didn't like the weak ass first arc: really interesting set up; awesome fucking art; filler issue of "hallucinations"; complete ass-pull ending. Which is typical of Snyder (try reading The Wake sometime).

The second arc had Serial Killer Joker going into a police station and killing the lights ... and then snapping necks.

Because in Gotham apparently none of the cops carry a fucking Maglite OR A CELL PHONE WITH A GOD DAMNED FLASHLIGHT APP!!

I just gave the fuck up.

>>83959546
Who you quoting player? Did you even read it or just hear the words "Morrison" and "meta" here? It had heart, humor, reverence for the past, creativity, besides the "meta" stuff it worked on the surface issue to issue.

>>83959608
>I WANT MORE OF THE SAME!

>>83959615
>I just gave the fuck up.

After DotF I felt like I was rused and promptly sold the run back to my LCS at a loss.

>>83959523
Are you retarded? Black Glove was as simple and straightforward as you can get. B&R is leagues better than Black Mirror even though I like both. Sounds like you are a dumbass that tried to just read arcs out of the run instead of reading Morrison's entire run.

>>83959646
yes, I want the same dish with different condiments to spice it up and make it different each time while keeping the original ingredients.

>>83959728
I thought Morrison's Batman started strong and started to go wobbly at some point in the run. For me the big disappointment was how little he did with a premise - Dick Grayson takes over as Batman - that the comics had been building up to for decades.

I feel like Peter Tomasi's departure as editor hurt the series as it hurt Johns' Green Lantern, but that's just me.

>>83959780
>how little he did with a premise

Interpersonally he did a lot, as in the dynamic being inverted. Happy go lucky Batman and serious violent Robin. Big brother Dick and lonely, poorly adjusted kid brother Damian. Brand new rouges gallery. What he didnt do with the premise was some stunt like "Dick's been an owl this whole time!"

Bluebird, Duke > Damian

>>83959937
this desu

>>83959937
>Bluebird, Duke > Tim Drake.

>>83960216
that too

>>83959608
>t least Snyder's run was more focused instead of just trying to leave a mark with some OC
, Duke ?

>>83960216
That goes without saying.

>>83956253
same

>>83959362
It's a plane crash, you can't stop a plane crash with a smart phone.

>>83956067
>Throughout the next year you're going to see each of the villains sort of redefined and modernized and made scarier. We're not really updating their origins or doing anything stupid like that, but we're saying that what made them scary in the 1940's and '50s doesn't necessarily make them scary today. That core that those creators developed still haunts us, and I think we're just trying to drill back into that. Calendar Man seems silly, like a guy who's obsessed with calendars. But there's nothing scarier than a calendar in your life. A calendar is a track of your life moving forward. Your life either ends eventually or goes on forever. Either way, it's frightening. So we're doing that concept with a lot of big characters. You'll see a lot of that play out in Batman and also in All-Star Batman.

HACK
A
C
K

source http://ign.com/articles/2016/06/17/tom-king-and-david-finch-on-relaunching-batman-for-dc-rebirth

Is nickname is going to be HacKing right?

>>83959467
Yeah, we can all agree you have shit taste.

>>83962143
fuck off man don't start this shit

>>83956881
He even had Tony Daniels on Batman RIP. he gets paired with shit artists just as much as he gets paired with good artists.

>>83959362
The fact that you prefer Tynion's writing to King's pretty much discredits your opinion. And I say that as someone who didn't find Batman #1 to be something special.

>>83962314
Now, I like to put the jelly inside my ass. Then put some of this peanut butter on top of it. I call it a peanut butter jelly and asshole sandwich, but Tom here will be calling it lunch.

>>83962314
I thought it was clever. ;_;

>>83959362
>Batman was mediocre
>'Tec is looking good so far though, so there's that.
Anon please.

>>83962314
It already started, anon.

>>83962340
>He even had Tony Daniels on Batman RIP. he gets paired with shit artists just as much as he gets paired with good artists.

this is true for better and worse, Most of New X-Men was atrocious art, Action, Tony Daniels, the second volume of B and R, The DC house style of the opening and closing chapters of Multiversity imo

But then his bullpen of Irving, Stewart, obviously Quitely, Burnham are unrivaled

Didn't like his first issue, but I still have hope since it's Tom King. He seems like a good writer, who can write good stories with cliche plots. Nothing he's writing seem like an out there plot that can blow your mind, but his writing is what elevates it.
But his first issue was not bad, but disappointing, which didn't get the pacing and Batman's voice right.

>>83962755
I honestly didn't see a problem with Batman's voice.

>>83962489
>The DC house style of the opening and closing chapters of Multiversity imo

Some people hold up Ivan Reis as a top talent. I don't get it either

>>83959608
>instead of just trying to leave a mark with some OC
Anon please.

>>83962830
The conversation looked out of character for Batman. The ending part could've been more visual than a sobby conversation with Alfred.

>>83959608
>Opinions of a characterfag
Nothing worth reading here.

>>83962489
>The DC house style of the opening and closing chapters of Multiversity
Nigger that's Ivan Reis. Don't talk shit about this generation's JLGL.

>>83962895
It's only really out of character if you take Snyder's Batman as the norm. Most writers before that have depicted him as having emotions.

>>83962944
>What is 90s
>What is early 2000
>What is Loeb
Fuck off with that shit.

>>83962944
It's still out of character if we compare it to post 90s Batman. I didn't say him having emotions was out of character, but the way King depicted it didn't fit.

io9 had a pretty nice nterview with King today.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/one-of-comics-best-new-writers-talks-about-what-it-s-l-1782297630

>>83963034
I had no problem with it. It fit the moment.

Story was nice. Looked way better than I was expecting. Bellaire is amazing

>>83956139
Apparently this Batman arc is going to be set like an action movie.
>With Batman, I really wanted to write a superhero action movie. There will be deep scenes. I can’t get that stuff out of my head. But my real intention is to thrill the reader. To take them out of their everyday and be like “holy shit, I can’t believe that just happened.”

It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

>>83963231
>DC asks him to pitch Omega Men
>King pitches Guardians of the Galaxy
>DC tells him to write something cool from his CIA experience
For all the faults of DCYou at least editorial was pushing for cool and interesting comics.

>>83963231
>With Batman, I really wanted to write a superhero action movie. There will be deep scenes. I can’t get that stuff out of my head. But my real intention is to thrill the reader. To take them out of their everyday and be like “holy shit, I can’t believe that just happened.”
Killed my buzz a little, since most of my favourite Batman runs have been ones which don't strictly adhere to being a superhero comic and ones with off beat tones. I thought it would be more like Vision or Omega men rather than Grayson(which was still great, but definitely the weakest of his works)

>>83964753
I disagree, I find the Future's End issue better than any of his Vision issues.

>>83964753
The first issue itself was obvious enough. He's writing a book that Batman readers will enjoy rather than a book that will do anything for people just looking for something interesting to read.

I mostly just hope he has another ongoing in the works rather than it just being this.

>>83962105
>Calendar Man is Gentry

>Y'all ready for the best Batman run since Brubaker
Yes, yes I am. Get that Hack Morrishit trash out of here

>>83965356
gr8 b8 m8

>>83965396
>Thinking Morrison has written ANYTHING better than Brubaker

>>83965356
Brubaker's run was meh.

>>83966066

Was it? They're reprinting it in omnibus collections and I was thinking of checking it out because I like Gotham Central and Sleeper

>>83966520
yes

>>83966520
It's not bad, but it's not as good as his Gotham Central or Catwoman, and there are better Batman runs to check out.

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>>83962105

What exactly is wrong with this? Sounds like King is using the same logic that gave us pic related

>>83964753

Yea I'm a little disappointed that King's big idea for Batman is to put all of the stuff that make King great on the back burner and write him like everyone else.

>>83967383
I wish King had more solid titles under his belt before doing Batman. No one wrote a GOAT Batman run as their fourth book and if he did it instead a few years from now he would have the pull to fully bring his writing style to Batman. As it is he's pretty much Snyder's lackey and while I'm excited to see how the first arc turns out and for more casuals to get an appreciation for him I wish his Batman debut could have been a few years down the line when he had more pull in the company.

>>83968553

I agree with you in theory but King is an older dude with a whole prior career and a good deal of writing under his belt. Babylon, Omega Men and Vision don't really seem like early career books.

>>83963231
>best new writers

Eww

>>83967096
It's the same thing Snyder gets called out for.

>>83959608

It makes me sad that people who read comics can reduce Morrison to points like these. Well, congrats. Readers like you are the reason that mainstream comics are filled with the same hacks writing the same comics over and over.

Thanks buddy.

http://www.newsarama.com/29738-rebirth-s-batman-1-to-give-bruce-wayne-what-he-deserves.html

>Nrama: Speaking of villains, Batman: Rebirth #1’s Calendar Man was actually portrayed here as a legitimate threat. Do you have other villain reimagining in mind?

>King: Yeah, I do. The first year of Batman will a trilogy of three arcs kind of like Star Wars. You’ll get three trades that composite one story, but each is self-contained. In the way it works is that we’ll switch up artists, too. So the first arc will be David Finch, the modern master, then Mikel Janin, my old brother from Grayson and who draws the most beautiful people in comics will take the second, and then Finch returns for the third.
>Throughout the whole thing there will be one big bad and he’s an old Batvillain. We’re reimagining him in a whole new cool and creepy way. Similar to how we did Calendar Man, and throughout the thing... I mean, I just wrote Kite-Man into an issue so yeah, we’re going deep.

Kite Man incoming

>>83974361
>Throughout the whole thing there will be one big bad and he’s an old Batvillain. We’re reimagining him in a whole new cool and creepy way. Similar to how we did Calendar Man
Killer Moth? Crazy Quilt?

>>83956067
Tell me about King.

>>83971092
but I don't buy comics so my opinion doesn't matter

>>83976968
>based King saving Killer Moth

If only