>ANON, YOUR ANGEL OF DEATH AWAITS

>>83851745
> OMG I BET THIS IS THAT OTHER CHARACTER WITH THE SAME BUILD AND VOICE ACTOR

File: jpeg-119626.jpg (14KB, 500x282px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 500x282px

Is it safe to say execs forced Joker into the movie? He just comes out of nowhere and doesn't thematically tie into the film in any way

I want her to be canon.

>>83852038
Probably, but I doubt it was because of the character's popularity as much as you'd think.

If it were, they'd added in Catwoman and Penguin because of Batman Returns (which came out at the same time if I recall).

File: hit-me.jpg (911KB, 2349x1971px) Image search: [Google]

911KB, 2349x1971px

>>83852038
It worked well enough to illustrate the "before/after Batman" Gotham. At least they didn't ask for Robin to be in it as well

>>83851745
Is the flop of this movie to blame for the lack of theatrical traditional animation, particularly superhero adaptations?

>>83852038
Yeah, but Mark Hamill knocked it out of the park as usual, so the movie didn't suffer from it.

>>83852837
According to that listicle you're hacking together for Cracked, sure

>>83853307
How do I get a job at Cracked? I could do with a new writing gig.

File: image.jpg (28KB, 260x299px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 260x299px

>>83851745

File: joker hitman.jpg (88KB, 1310x768px) Image search: [Google]

88KB, 1310x768px

>>83852038

Nah.

I love that he was basically the secret final boss.

if they tried this in this day and age, they would over promote Joker.

File: Untitled.png (510KB, 851x483px) Image search: [Google]

510KB, 851x483px

>Can't be too careful with all those weirdos around

>>83852954
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm_GPkOfVKI
He did the best Joker laugh I've ever heard in this film.

>>83851745
If my angel of death is a sexy redhead I think that I'd be okay with it.

>>83853307
Not even the scum of the Earth that are Cracked writers would come to 4Chan for information, don't flatter yourself.

Siskel and Ebert raved about this movie but Siskel said Hamil's Joker was weak compared to Nicholson and Romero. I'll never understand that opinion.

>>83856978
That was before he really blew up as the "definitive" version of the character.
He was just comparing him to some radically different portrayals that he knew better.

>>83851745
I love this movie to death, but I can't help feeling like the Phantasm character more or less got brushed to the side once Joker showed up.

If they'd let Batman have an extended fight with Phantasm instead of just that brief scuffle, and really showed off Phantasm's bag of tricks and Batman having to figure a way around them, or just straight up getting wrecked, it would've made the character feel more like a real threat. Once Andrea unmasks her threat level drops right down to damsel in distress.

It's really the only weak part of the film for me. But I still love it.

>>83851745
This movie is the best Batman movie, period.

>>83857237
that's why the phantasm was cool. she was smart enough not to go at him one on one. mysterious unhittable characters are boring cliche now, but they used to be cool and sensible and unusual, for this reason
>>83853602
always bugged me how they made her head out of geometric shapes but she still has rubbery skin applied on top of them

>>83857272
>mysterious unhittable characters are boring cliche now
You can blame Naruto for that.

>>83857237
>>83857272

I just wish the finale was actually about the Phantom / Andrea like the rest of the movie instead of the Phantom being a bystander to the same Batman / Joker climax we've seen too many times before.

File: 001.jpg (76KB, 1600x1000px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 1600x1000px

>>83857324
I disagree. I think what was amazing in this movie is that Andrea is a victim, and her quest for bloodthirsty revenge only hurts her even deeper: she is cursed by her feeling of loss and despair, and she's only got one man to blame for it, the Joker. It's fitting than at the very same moment where she self-destructs and therefore finally defines herself as a being with her own will, the old ghost from her past comes back and pins her down right back to the dismal depths of despair.

This is just a beautiful, amazing tragedy, where two people (Andrea and Bruce) try to make sens of loss and go on their own quest for revenge/justice, but ultimately fail miserably and only succeed to hurt themselves.

>>83857324
Too many times before? You're thinking of it in the current times, back then, the only Batman vs. Joker the public had scene in media was the Burton Batman movie. In the Adam West movie, they had Joker, Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman

File: 1395277685383.png (25KB, 236x236px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 236x236px

>>83856683
>4Chan

File: 1312597386650.png (4KB, 236x234px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 236x234px

>Mfw they played that version of the theme song in the beginning

>>83856683
>scum of the Earth that are Cracked writers

But Cracked is one of the few funny listicle sites and original internet content sites.

>>83858452
Blew my mind when I first heard it as a kid. I still listen to it regularly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-m0ehT3_mo

And let's not forget the theme from the scene where Bruce first dons the cowl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DZnWKjOB_Y

>>83857688

A lot of us still remember the Larry Storch Joker.

File: 89760.jpg (41KB, 324x322px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 324x322px

>I need it to be different now. I know I made a promise, but I didn't see this coming. I didn't count on being happy.

>>83852038
He was the guy responsible for forcing Andrea out of town which in turn lead to Bruce becoming Batman.

>when joker is reaching for the knife but starts beating her with a salami instead

>>83859520

It makes sense but it feels contrived and a bit out of place. Joker's past was deliberately untouched in the show and they brought this super specific slice of his backstory in just so it could tie him into the story

>>83857292
yeah no

>>83857324
it wasn't just the same old one though, it was finally-being-done-well-without-constraints batman/joker climax.
>>83858861
and the latin chanting is the names of the uncredited guys in the production or whatever

>>83860023
You're saying that it was already stale before Naruto did it, or denying the global syndication phenomenon that is Naruto's success had an impact on Western comics and cartoons? Please clarify.

I have to agree with some of these anons, the movie's called Mask of the Phantasm, not Mystery of the Joker or whatever. More skull-face, less clown would have been appreciated.

>>83859520
No, that was Jack Napier. And there was no reason from a writing standpoint to tie him or a character with his role to Joker's backstory specifically except to go out of their way to include the Joker.

File: 1466123919327.jpg (11KB, 206x220px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 206x220px

>>83860160
>No, that was Jack Napier.

File: 4814907-6333884270-33.jp.jpg (31KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 640x360px

>>83851745
WELCOME TO THE FUTURE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZdXIcXDcGA

>>83860227
Read the next fucking sentence of my post.

>>83860318
No anon, you're being a fucking retard
>Joker lead to this
>No that was Jack Napier

>>83860381
>>83860227
Pretty sure that they actually called him that in the show proper at one point

>>83858742
no

>>83860160
The climax of the story wouldn't have been as interesting if the assassin was some nobody like Wormwood from the Cape and Cowl Conspiracy.

>>83860125
it was still mask of the phantasm even by the end. Phantasm wasn't the antagonist, she was a supporting character

>>83860640
Oh, I agree. But arguing that he was not forced into the movie by saying "oh he was in it because he played this role and did this thing that virtually any other character could have done" is silly. Saying that he's in it because his particular character packed the right punch by providing a twist is valid, but even then there are other characters that could have done that too.

>>83860772
>, but even then there are other characters that could have done that too.
Who?

>>83856683
They stole a Snyder-bashing picture from us

>>83860922
Just pick a popular character from Batman's rogue gallery and say there was a time before they went super villain when they went through a gang phase. It doesn't apply to every single one perfectly and the Joker is an especially good choice because he had pretty much no backstory in the show established prior to that, but it can still work with plenty characters. They don't even necessarily have to be villains. In Gotham, I'm sure lots of people get tangled with gangs at some point in their lives.

File: Batman_mask_of_the_phantasm_poster.jpg (28KB, 298x448px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 298x448px

>>83860747
>Phantasm wasn't the antagonist, she was a supporting character

Bullshit.

>I'd totally look at this poster and say that ominous face is a "supporting character" and not the main villain

It says right there on the poster. Gotham's deadliest enemy. It was a total bait-and-switch with Joker.

>>83861082
Phantasm isn't Gotham's deadliest enemy, it's the Joker. Phantasm just wanted to kill a few old gangsters and leave, that's not very deadly.

>>83851745
I've been waiting for you, my angel, for so long it hurt. Take me from the hell I turned my life into.

>>83861082
Are you saying promotional material should dictate the plot of the writing?

Besides, Phantasm IS still Batman's opponent at the end, or rather Andrea is Bruce's, it's just that the final fight is emotional rather than fisticuffs. And Batman loses.

>>83861039
>Just pick a popular character from Batman's rogue gallery and say there was a time before they went super villain when they went through a gang phase
This fits Joker best out of TAS' villains.

>They don't even necessarily have to be villains. In Gotham, I'm sure lots of people get tangled with gangs at some point in their lives.
Non-villains limits you to Gordon, Harvey, and Alfred

>>83861368
If you interpret "villains" in anon's post to mean specifically super-villains, then you could still use someone like Rupert Thorne.

>>83860125
>>83860772
You all have a point, but I see it as a detail you have to take in context of the time it was released. In 1993, having the Joker inadvertently be tied to Batman's origin in such a personal way was ground breaking. It's only looking at it from a modern standpoint that it becomes a blip in the long line of Joker's machinations.

And remember, it's not like the finale was Joker rocketing off in his jetpack while screaming "IT WAS ME, BRUCE! I KILLED YOUR FIANCE'S DAD JUST TO COCKBLOCK YOU!" It was Bruce trying to stop Andrea from killing her father's murderer, who just happened to be the Joker, which kind of spiraled into a fight to the death.

>>83861039
It's not that simple though. It had to be a villain with enough prominence to give the reveal weight, but also with a backstory vague enough to make sense. Who else actually fits that criteria? Can you see the Riddler being a low rent mob enforcer? Killer Croc? The Penguin? Actually don't answer that last one.

Really the only other reasonable villain is Joe Chill, and that's way too contrived. Sure, you could modify the plot to fit, but at that point it's too far away from the original tone of the movie to matter much.

File: 1454128600421.png (17KB, 557x605px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 557x605px

>>83858861
>And let's not forget the theme from the scene where Bruce first dons the cowl.
That scene makes the hairs on my arm stand up.

Opinions on the Joker aside, would we call this the best Batman movie?

>>83861495
I often do.

>>83861535
I know people have a hard on for Burton's Batman, but I just can't get into it. I don't see The Joker when Jack Nicholson plays him, I just see Jack Nicholson playing himself as a clown. Keaton was great though.

File: Batman-Begins-9-1940x1285.png (3MB, 1940x1285px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1940x1285px

>>83861495
>>83861535
>>83861577

File: the greatest love story never told.jpg (302KB, 800x390px) Image search: [Google]

302KB, 800x390px

>>83861495
I like Under the Red Hood about as much. Coincidentally, both are about Batman stopping someone from killing his clownfu.

>>83861741
I see the whole "No killing on my watch," thing from Batsy in Red Hood, but in Phantasm it almost seems like he doesn't give two shits about the clown next to his need to save Andrea's soul from her own demons, including her murdering.

>>83861495
I already did in this very thread

>>83861741
>"Goodbye, my love" coming from Joker

Is this an edit? If not that's hilarious.

>>83862093
Where the balloon points, yes.

>>83861495
Hell yes I would.

>>83861723
It's a close runner up, but I'd still have to give it to Mask of the Phantasm for not being an origin story outside the flashbacks.

>>83860228
So was Gotham in the DCAU intentionally retro despite taking place in modern times?

>>83862339
It was deliberately anachronistic, yes.

>>83862093
I'm disappointed. I can see the Joker saying that for laughs and it is so much more funny imagining the possibility of it really being his last words to Batman.

File: 1410084825714.jpg (22KB, 472x235px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 472x235px

>>83862339
In the Batman animated series it was retro as fuck, in the new Batman adventures it was still sort of but not as much, and finally in the Justice League series there was no retro and everything was modern looking. So, maybe all of it just signifies that a lot of time passed while Bruce was Batman?

>>83862339
Yes, that is exactly what they were going for. Hence the old fashioned cars, blimps, and black and white tvs. As a kid I actually thought it took place in the 40s or something.

Goddamn that one anon in here is REALLY not ok with other anons feeling the Joker was out of place in this movie...

>>83863345
It's literally one guy saying Joker was out of place and claiming Jack Napier wasn't Joker

File: img_0193.jpg (115KB, 503x655px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 503x655px

I was had an argument with an anon over there being something more to Andrea's disappearing act.

He insisted that it was a simple misdirection and that she just slipped away in the cloud of smoke while Batman couldn't see her.

However, at multiple times in the film she pulls this off in the middle of huge open spaces or on rooftops where we can clearly see any direction she might move in. And of course, we can clearly see her just materialize out of thin air when she goes after the Joker (just before he turns on the giant turbine.)

And of course there's this>>83854058

So, I don't know if she was using magic or some kind of teleportation technology, but there's something more too it. What she did was physically impossible according to the internal logic of the film.

>>83851745
This fucking movie pissed me the hell off.

>Have a Ghost based "villain"
>Colored grey
>Call her "Phantasm"

Mother fucker if there was a new aged anti hero Grey Ghost to looked like this I would throw all my money at DC.

File: next door, jackass.png (191KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 480x360px

>>83851745
Next door, jackass.

>>83851745
Finally. I've been suffering for 9 long years now. Just end it please.

>>83858861
The DCAU really lost something special when Shirley Walker died. The music was nothing short of amazing.

>>83862243
What I love about it is that is an origin story while showing more than every other Batman adaptation. Something before Batman but not just his childhood or parent's death.

>>83863798
No, it's at least two but probably three. I was one of them but I didn't make the first post raising the subject.

And I meant in a "Jack Napier was the guy before he became the Joker" kind of way like in a "Bruce Wayne should be treated as a separate character from Batman" way. And even that is beside my point that the ROLE of the character could possibly be filled by somebody else, especially since that backstory for the Joker did not exist prior to the movie.You're really making me regret my wording by getting all ball busted over it though, good job.

>>83851745
The Phantasm is so fucking cool looking. I was always disappointed that the only toy for her that existed was the one with a removable mask that spoiled her identity.

>>83852038
That's Batman media for you. Remember Arkham City, or Assault on Arkham, or the Suicde Squad movie?

File: 761941334400a.jpg (120KB, 1149x1500px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 1149x1500px

>>83865135
But, anon...

>Clearly has a male body
>Suddenly has a female body when she removes the mask and cape

Even as a kid, this pissed me off. How stupid do they think we are?

>>83863812
That's a new one. Though it's certainly an idea with all the super tech that existed at the time, I kind of figured she was just as good as Bruce at disappearing.

Sort of like how Bruce was able to remove his cape/cowl, throw it over a barricade, then affix it to his grapple gun in under a second when he should have been in plain view of a police chopper. Ninja magic.

>>83864398
It really is the perfect Batman movie in that way. We get to follow an experienced veteran version of the character while still exploring his early days in a way that not even Begins could.

>>83852038
Somebody post that old-ass /co/ thread with all the edits of this.

File: waitaminute.jpg (3MB, 4678x3542px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 4678x3542px

>>83865408
Done.

>>83865234
Holy shit when did those come out? Must've been pretty damn recent since all the Amazon reviews are from this year.

File: Bruce_Begs_Grave[1].jpg (81KB, 955x725px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 955x725px

Please! I need it to be different now. I know I made a promise, but I didn't see this coming. I didn't count on being happy.

I want to see her make an appearance in the comics finally.

File: 10740428_gal.jpg (19KB, 462x347px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 462x347px

>>83851745
Mask of the Phantasm was the first time I ever saw blood in a cartoon. It was really shocking, but at the same time I thought it was awesome.

>>83865189
I thought his role in Arkham City was alright, but it was Arkham Knight that it felt absolutely unnecessary.

Totally took away from Scarecrow as the villain.

>>83863812
There was a scene where Bruce is talking to Alfred about his analysis of the residue that the Phantasm's smoke left behind, and he says something about "adaptigenic macromolecules". So we're supposed to get the impression that the suit makes her invisible. But the question that always bothered me about this movie is: where did Andrea get the technology to build the suit?

>>83869717

Pretty much nothing about her is explained other than DAD MADE ME TAKE KARATE LOL. I love Mask of the Phantasm but it definitely has a noticeable lack of Phanatasm, especially in the final act.

It would have been so great of the TAS team just transitioned to a movie series like the Star Trek show. Phantasm proved that they had the chops and Batman has the appropriate "epicness" for big screen animation.

>>83864341
Definitely. The set of themes each character had for the show were instantly iconic and fitting. The episode where Joker had Captain Clownface may be the most menacing use of an accordion I've ever heard.