Alignment

Jesus fucking Christ.

They are all shit.

>>83723489
Did you just throw those into the spaces at random?

>>83723489
SHIELD is lawful evil, just allied with the USA

>>83723489
>X-men
>Evil

Yup

>hydra not being lawful good
Great bait senpai

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>>83723489
>Chaotic Evil
>Loki
Someone's getting worked.

>>83723489
MCU Loki isn't even really chaotic, weirdly enough. If he was truer to his nature, he would be, but he's trying hard to be a ruler, and establish an order that when he succeeds, usually looks kind of fascist. He kind of seems like a classic example of Neutral Evil.

>>83723624
>Keeping the world safe and mass murders locked up...
>Evil
Fuck you!

>>83723489
>D&D alignment chart

>>83723489
who made this crap?

>>83724484
>Keeping the world controlled and mass murders employed
FIFY

>>83724285

No, Neutral Evil is pretty much pure evil. Loki in MCU is less evil and more chaotic. He is self serving first and foremost and is not to be trusted, pretty much ever. He disposes of lives as he see's fit and allies with opportunity first, or whoever gives him power/opportunity. That's definition CE.

I'm not reading the whole vote for loki shit, so I have no idea how he is currently in the comics.

>>83723489
>SHIELD
>Lawful good
AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>this entire chart
el oh el

>>83724796
>He is self serving first and foremost and is not to be trusted
>He disposes of lives as he see's fit and allies with opportunity first
Evil

>or whoever gives him power/opportunity.
Neutral on the law/chaos spectrum

If he was true CN, he had all the freedom he could have wanted after he "died". Could have gone out, made his own way in the universe, no one to tell him what to do. But instead he came back, after making a pact with Thanos ie. submitting to an order, but only so long as it served his desires of propping himself and his image up due to his own selfish desires. Pure Neutral Evil.

>>83723489

>guardians of the galaxy
>ragtag group of criminals
>lawful neutral
>lawful

>>83723489
>loki not chaotic neutral

>>83725374
What altruistic things has he ever done to balance out all the evil?

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>X-men
>Neutral Evil

>>83725561
>bunch of dumb mutie-scum radicals that terrorize normal folk
>not neutral evil

>>83725561
Yeah, I don't know either.

>>83725263

You don't know what CE or NE is then.

You're saying if he were CE he'd have left his known left and world behind. That since he didn't that makes him NE. This choice is not a factor in N vs C. Why would anyone leave what they know behind? Chaotic doesn't mean you never submit to order, it doesn't mean you always flee and run away. If that were the case no one would be C. C can work in a group and even lead a group. You can recognize power as any alignment. If you see a giant ass dragon and try to fight it, that's not chaotic, that's just stupid.

Captain Kirk and Indiana Jones are chaotic characters, but they still submit to order or systems. They themselves don't abide in a rigid way with terms. They do as the moment calls to them. They can be in favor of a system and great power, but aren't beholden to it because their decision making doesn't revolve around anything. When your choices dip into perpetuating structure that's when you become more neutral. When you hold yourself to structure, that's when you're lawful.

Basically, being Chaotic doesn't mean you're not allowed an agenda, emotions or intelligence.

>>83725608
>bunch of dumb mutie-scum radicals that terrorize normal folk
That's the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants though. The X-Men fight against them.

>>83725482
Doesn't that fucker owe Spider-Man a favor for helping him save his daughter? Where was he when Mephisto was molesting Peters history?

>>83725374
>>83725482

It's almost purposefully confusing with multiple loki's. It depends which version you think is CN. OP did say "current"

>>83723489
Alignment are fucking retarded, how can you consider any of the "neutrals" neutral?

>>83723489
> Guardians not Chaotic Good
> X-Men not Neutral Good
> Inhumans not Chaotic Neutral
> Fantastic Four not Lawful Good or even on the chart
Kek

>>83725630
>Basically, being Chaotic doesn't mean you're not allowed an agenda, emotions or intelligence.
What sounds more like Loki?
>the alignment of those who do whatever they can get away with, without compassion or qualms.
>act with arbitrary violence, spurred by their greed, hatred, or bloodlust.

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someone fix this shit

>>83723624
I remember when SHIELD was an international peacekeeping agency with a US division, and not just CIA+.

>>83725835
>taken from 5e creature alignment

neither.... Loki is not a creature.

>>83725913
>taken from 5e creature alignment
Dumbass. That's from the PHB for players choosing their alignment.

>>83724649
Is there a better alignment system?

>>83725932
>using 5e as example for alignment

That's why I didnt recognize it or care. Look at 3.5 for more than 1 sentence.

>>83726021
>Look at 3.5
How about no.

>>83726107

lol, no wonder you dont understand alignment then. 5e is laughably short. In 5e Loki would be CN

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>>83723489
>SHIELD
>LG
>Ultimates
>TN
>Inhumans
>Good
>Thunderbolts
>Neutral
>X-Men
>Evil
Hoo boy

>>83726205
Alright, I'll play your game.
>A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him.

Loki is sometimes hot tempered, and violent, but almost never arbitrary. He is somewhat unpredictable, but still has clear personal goals, not simply acting on his whims. The idea that he could only be made to work with others through force is ridiculously absurd. He obeyed Odin for centuries, at least on the surface. He submitted to Thanos when it suited him, in his pursuit of what he wanted. In comparison

>A neutral evil villain does whatever she can get away with. She is out for herself, pure and simple. She sheds no tears for those she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. She has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble. On the other hand, she doesn’t have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.

Now here we have something much closer to Loki.

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>>83723489
>Inhumans
>not Chaotic neutral

>>83726607
I don't know much about them. Can you tell me why they're Chaotic Neutral?

Still don't get the "X-Men Evil" one at all. Is it something to do with what Scott's doing? I thought Cyclops was right?

>>83723489
>inhumans
>good
>after terrigen toxic cloud attack
look I'm no mutie, but that shit is an evil move for sure.

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>>83726107
>this fag doesnt play 3.5
holy shit can you get any worse?

>>83726651
Largely because the royal family works on doing things of their personal feelings than whether it is right or wrong. They are willing to do both good and bad things depending on how it effects their city and people. It's not until recently that they started into traditional heroics as a group.

>>83726429
>He submitted to Thanos when it suited him, in his pursuit of what he wanted. In comparison

So you're ignoring the threat of "pain" because it suits your argument?

>She has no love of order

>"Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel."

>and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make her any better or more noble
> or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.

uh.. that's literally Loki's main flaw. He wants to be a king to be seen as something better, but won't let go of causing trouble. He and Thor both will not let go of conflict. Loki wanted a war and feeds disaster and doing so kills his mom, who he loved.

Your playing my game, but you're losing mate, but your move. I enjoy this debate.

>>83726847
>this fag doesnt play 3.5
Insufferable casterfag detected. How about you play something where your friends' characters aren't ridiculously nerfed?

>>83726889
>So you're ignoring the threat of "pain" because it suits your argument?
No, that threat was only there after Loki was pledged to get Thanos the cube.
>>"Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel."
If you're going to say that signifies a genuine love of order, then he's Lawful Evil. But
>but won't let go of causing trouble.
So that's a chaotic tendency. putting him, surprise surprise, in the middle.

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This is a much more accurate image

>>83726985
>No, that threat was only there after Loki was pledged to get Thanos the cube.

Yea... so all of The Avengers is motivated by a higher power. He is doing as another wishes. He does it as he wants, but still he is beneath Thanos.

>If you're going to say that signifies a genuine love of order, then he's Lawful Evil. But

Im saying he longs for order but utterly fails at it. That he does not get what it takes to be a king. That's the problem Odin has and Loki admits a bit of it as Odin. The conquest of power and arrogance of Loki is misplaced ambition, he wants a purpose too much. Wanting it doesn't mean he would accomplish it.

Two-Face for example wants to give up on order and unleash a bit of chaos to the world, but he does so in an orderly fashion making him NE. He does not accomplish what he set out to do because he also still Harvey Dent.

Lokis desires will never be fulfilled and he never acts on them, he lacks conviction and always falls to the moments indulgence.

>>83725657
Apparently Spider-Man wasted that favor getting Loki's help moving.

>>83727231
>Im saying he longs for order but utterly fails at it.
Well, I agree with all of that, but what that ultimately means, I think is that he cannot be sorted into either lawful or chaotic categories, and ends up at neutral, even if a couple of his traits don't meet textbook descriptions.

>>83726920
But i play rogue...

>>83727344

I think you look at what he wants too much then. If he wanted ice cream and failed at it, you'd see him as Chaotic? I mean Tony Stank also wants order but he is dripping in Chaotic as well. He builds Ultron, aligns with the accords, all for his image, his ego, his right to be Iron Man. He needs to support order and law to be iron man. Loki doesn't know what it is to be a king, but wants it. He wants the position of power and to rule, but not actually listen and evaluate and be a ruler. Being a title is more important than what the title has to do.

>>83727384
>3.5 rogue
I think you may have Stockholm syndrome.

>>83727456
>Loki doesn't know what it is to be a king, but wants it.
It's a vacuum filler for feelings of inadequecy rather than a genuine belief in an evil order though. You said it yourself, Coulson told him he "lacked conviction" when he was talking about men being "made to be ruled and that he was going to free people from freedom.

>HYDRA
>Lawful evil

Christ.

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>>83726765
>killing muties
>wrong

>>83727573
What would you call them?

>>83727571
>It's a vacuum filler for feelings of inadequecy rather than a genuine belief in an evil order though

Yea... meaning he is not at all lawful, and thus not balanced to neutral, but pure chaotic.

>>83727503
nothing beats dropping into a flat footed group and unleashing a whirlwind attack with a keen rapier.

>>83727631
>but pure chaotic
Not really. Again, "chaos" in D&D terms is all about freedom. Loki has risked his freedom in order to get what he really wants, which is not freedom or order but APPROVAL. He only supports chaos to the degree it wold bring down Thor to his level of approval, and only supports law to get people to kneel. That's what the king thing is really about. It's about trying to feel like people like or respect him. He's willing to use lawful or chaotic actions to get that selfish goal.

>>83727743
Well that's true, but it sounds like you have a good DM that is balancing the party by
1. making sure there are enough times you catch the enemy flat-footed and
2. Making up for the rogue's combat problems by letting him obtain a keen rapier, something specifically tailored to make the rogue more competitive.

>>83727757

Being in charge would give him ultimate freedom, would it not? Free to rule asgard, free to rule other worlds? He wants to do as he wishes and be in a position promised to him. He was not willing to sacrifice freedom to do it. If you spout the fan theory he got caught at the end of avengers on purpose this convo is done.

>>83727839
>He wants to do as he wishes and be in a position promised to him.
I guess we disagree on his motives then. It was never about the freedom of rule. It was always about the approval he needed, whether he could get that from his father, or legions of subservient humans, it didn't matter.

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>>83725836
I tried. Not sure about SHIELD but I don't wanna search around for logos.

>>83728503

Some should probably be removed cause theyre the same as others or fit more than one