Detective Comics 934 Storytime

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Action Comics >>83594558

Damn, Trinity storytimes all up in this

Just Flash and Aquaman left for today's Rebirth stuff, right?

>>83596380
Have you read it yet? Is the consensus that it's crap?

>>83596392
Depends on if you consider Constantine and Black Canary's endings. Not sure if they're meant to tie directly to their Rebirth books. And E2S is basically being rebirthed by Abnett without the official designation.

>>83596356
Wait, they went back to the original numbering?

Kek.

>>83596421
This and Action both did starting today.

Wonder if they'll eventually return to OG numbering for vanilla Supes and vanilla Bats?

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>>83596421
Also with Action Comics.

>>83596407
Constantine The Hellblazer will become The Hellblazer and Black Canary (whos delays are so horrible that they increasingly used Sandy Jarrell as fill-in) appeared in Green Arrow Rebirth.

>>83596432
>1 page in with Batwoman
>"I'M A LESBIAN! AND DON'T WORRY, I FUCK BEFORE THE THIRD DATE!"

>>83596444
Probably a coincidence, but I can't help but feel that drone looks exactly like Intellectron.

>>83596417
Inb4 synder

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BATMAN IS BRUCE WAYNE

>>83596455
>Ten years

Hmmm...

>>83596417
The gentry!

>>83596386
Hey you're right.

>>83596467
Dident she get booted out before she finished her training
Guess there retconing that I'm fine with that I guess it's for a good reason

>>83596444
More gentry!

>>83596510
>untouchable body-reading fighter
>wears armor plates

Fuck this design.

>>83596467
So there turning detective comics into a sort of hero's of Gotham book
That's cool I don't know how long it will last but I'm hype I have always said detective comics should go back to its multi character roots and this is the next best thing.

>>83596485
OHHH SHIIITTTT

>>83596530
Daaaw
Also a little funny with the scaring everybody off

>>83596545
I like Batwoman, but is there any version of this that makes sense? Maybe she went to West Point, but Tim has to have been Robin since before that, right?

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Support the official release.

I guess...

>>83596506
Oh fuck more gentry.

>>83596545
I love this page

>>83596506
I think I prefer New 52 design for Tim

>>83596510
Hey Lord Broken this time.

>>83596557
I don't think I will. Part of it is not muh Spoiler, Red Robin, Cass, etc, but most of it is that nothing happened except jerking off to how much better Batwoman is than the kids for some reason. And I thought the mystery might be something cool but the last page means no.

>>83596569
No you don't. That design was pure unmitigated garbage.

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>>83596583
Anon I unironically like that suit

>>83596557
>we arkham knight now

>>83596580
She's better the the kids because she's older and more expirence then them

>>83596557
So it's Arkham Knight and his army

>>83596598
I'll fucking fight you for having that opinion. Square up nigga.

>>83596510
>she calls herself Orphan
is this real life

>>83596638
Or is this just fantasy?

>>83596557
Oh fuck Demogorgunn has entered too.

>>83596598

I'd slap you if you were in my face.

>>83596555
it's really unimpressive to have been to west point compared to being robin.

>>83596551
>how am I supposed to do that?
kek. Clayface is alright.

urg shit book.

>>83596432
>this spread
God damn, Eddy Barrows is too good for Tynion. Fuck why is he being wasted?

That was alright

>>83596573
Nice eye you got there.

Well, Gentry's here. Time to stop reading.

>>83596477
She's always placed a lot of importance on her love life anon

And it seems like there starting to get non aquaman romance right again

>>83596485
Awesome

>>83596651

Not-Tim was Red Robin for just fucking 6 months before fighting Bruce - Not-Tim blame him and the JL for inspiring young people to fight crime - and fucking off to Metropolis before forming the Teen Titans.

Lobdell also tried to turn him into a Olympic level athlete but that was it.

lol this is so bad but so fun at the same time. I feel like this is how I would write, it's basically fanfiction. Kinda love it.

>>83596407
I'm reading the hellblazer issue right now it's great

>>83596706
You want subtle catches? Check this page out>>83596545
This dame says she won't go easy on them and will be merciless in their training. Dame Merciless.

>>83596535
>Evil smirks on their faces
We all know who Gotham's true villains are.

>>83596729
That said if you dident read the last few issues constantine saying rules are fucking stupid seems slightly out of character the demon vaporisation in the last issue was still stupid though

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>>83596535

>>83596485
WHO THE HELL IS BRUCE WAYNE!?

I liked it to be honest.
Setting up the team, introducing people, showing Bruce nice and trusting side, him and Kate finally sharing secrets etc.

>>83596496
We'll start seeing "ten years" everywhere, right?

>>83596756
Fuck that was great felt like hellblazer

>>83596496
Eh probably just a coincidence

>>83596644
>>83596573
>>83596444
>>83596551
>>83596734
Is it bad that I want to see the Gentry more than whatever bullshit they have going on with Watchmen?

>>83596557
I wish those shitty Batgirls weren't it in. Batwoman is cool and Clayface is great.

>>83596530
>>83596535
;-;

>>83596521
>is that nick fury in the first panel in the last row?
>why the guy in the bottom left has a Punisher shirt?

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>>83596417
>a drone to watch me
>watch
>a silhuette in front of multiple screens
I wonder...

>>83596545
>welcome to Gotham, hope you survive the experience

>>83596848
Action Comics had Oz standing in front of multiple screens.

>>83596557
This really reads like a fan fiction of a kid who grew up reading late 90s - pre Loeb Batman. Not that it's bad, it's just not authentic.

>>83596887
this sounds just like me

>>83596485
>You won't believe me but I'm Batm-
>well duh
>But my shocking reveal

>>83596965
>Can you at least pretend you're attracted to m-Oh right, the lesbian thing. When are you going to work on that, by the way? I know some great psychiatrists that could help.

>>83596722
>So Batman finds Batwoman and they get all the other bat people
>and they train them
>TO FIGHT AGAINST AN ARMY OF BATMAN!!!
>Mom buy me more batman toys for my army!

Heck, Clayface is great and I kinda like the ideas they've layed out here other than Gentry that is. Fuck Gentry.

I stopped reading DC a while back, is Cass really back, because I might just start again just for that.

>>83597024
THEY RUINED CASS!!!

>>83597046
Well, Beechen ruined her before, at this point I'd settle for less ruined.

>>83597024
She came back in Batman and Robin Eternal

>>83597056
I was memeing.
Yeah, it's her, she's Orphan now. She appeared in Batman & Robin Eternal, book of dubious quality, and took Orphan as her codename. Her costume there looked better, probably because it didn't have mask.

>>83596432
I want a poster of that.

>>83597088
Eh, I dig the full face mask, it's the shoulder pads I could go without.

I she going to be in other Batbooks, too?

>>83597014
I don't read much bat what's the gentry

>>83597118
I don't think so, senpai. All Batfamily members without solo books are in Detective.

>>83596853
I'm sure that's what doctors say to newborn babies.

>>83597131
That thing where you find things because you are looking for them.

>>83597024
>is Cass really back

No, instead a shitty new character with an entirely different backstory took her name. And that character is Harper Row's supporting character and I fucking wish I was kidding.

>>83597131
Multiversal dicks who want to reshape Multiverse into horror.

>>83596729
Got a link to it?

>>83596516
sliding timeline mate.

>>83597244
No sorry I brought it off DC's comiXology app

>>83596557
Is this Demogorgunn or Hellmachine? The ridiculously unexplained leap in technology screams Hellmachine, the army of mindless robots says Demogorgunn.

Maybe they teamed up?

>>83597273
Hellmachine is a monster with giant building and a cityscape on its back. Demo is masses of people. The army is demo and the cityscape is hellmachine.

>>83596485
BBBB.. BRUCE WAYNE? IS BATMAN?

jajaja. is a Joke... Is imposible not know this.

>>83597326
Fair enough, so Hellmachine serves to display unnecessary collateral damage in typical superhero city fights? You know, beautiful skyscrapers that get their windows crashed, walls bashed in and toppled whenever something big needs to shit all over innocents?

>>83597407
In the interview where Grant explained each Gentry's archetype he said he forgot what Hellmachine was.

>>83596557
>A silhouette of the main villain
>An empty shadow, just like the Empty Hand
>Commanding his army of Gentry

>>83596485
>we will never have some bat-incest

>>83597446
>he said he forgot what Hellmachine was.
Goddamnit, Morrison...

>>83596485
Fuck this shit. Everyone knows he's Batman now. How am I supposed to believe it's meant to be a secret.

>>83596485
This page reads like it came straight out of a fanfic.

>>83596853
Good Words..
For those words I'm not excited with those 2 rivals of batman in batman comics(gotham and gotham girl?)..
I must wait for the next saga in batman comics..

>>83596551
So then >>83597407 is Hellmachine with all the buildings on his back.
Good job /co/. We found every Gentry in this issue.

>>83596557
WOW...
For this their cameras have that appearance .. They are anti-batmen

>>83596497
>Everytime an obstacle is put in front of her, she turns it on its head. And never the way you'd expect.
Holy shit, Tynion. Show don't tell.

Being a long-time marvelfag I forgot how great capes could be

>>83596506
>I was going to lock you out of all your computer systems again
Fucking hell. Not every young hero needs to be some skilled hacker tech person.

>>83597615
take a break anon, you seem to be in a pissy mode. Take a lap around the city and come back

>>83596506
oh damn, are they getting Tim<3Steph back? Also Tim that's a terrible RED Robin Costume when there's more fucking Green than RED.

>>83597574
Now find the Empty Hand.

>>83597663
You mean the black empty silhouette who's behind it all?
>>83596557

>>83596557
I'm not supporting Tynion.

I actually liked this. Maybe it's because I've never been particularly attached to Cass, Steph and Tim so there's not much NOT MUH for me.

>>83596485
Way to ruin the surprise.

>>83597147
Not Damian. And yes, I do realise he's going to be in three other books. Still not a solo. And I'm not complaining

>>83597147
>>83597729
Nor Duke for that matter.

>>83596510
Love the design, but not too keen on "Orphan."

I think this is way better than the Action Comics rebirth issue everyone was gushing about.

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>>83597179
I want to give this book a chance, but this shit right here will forever taint Cass for me
at least with Beechen you could ignore his stuff

>>83597761
But MUH FEELS and REAL SUPERMAN.
Can't wait for trunksfags to start again.

>>83597705
I liked it too. Though I also don't have any attachment to them either. But I have always liked Clayface a lot and Batwoman some. And they did Clayface much to my liking.

>>83597831
But I'm one of the trunksfags.

>>83596545
Meh, Boot Camp wasn't that bad.

>>83597761
>everyone was gushing about
I wouldn't say everyone. I made sure not to keep quite about my feelings on the book.

>all this talk about some shirtty meta concepts
Morrisonfags are cancer

>>83597991
I just feel sorry for them for when it will turn out it's just some ramdom super villain

>>83597991
As opposed to the discussion you provided?

>>83597606
This is mediocre shit. WTF are you talking about?

>>83597741
Nice try Snyder, he isn't Bat family.

>>83597761
Oh yeah, this is definitely better in writing and slightly better in art.

>>83598061
I don't get the hate. Aside from a couple of grievances, this was pretty good.

>>83598084
Agreed.

>>83598061
I didn't see anything wrong with it.

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>>83596485

>>83597991
>I'm not into it so I feel justified on hating it
Why can't you just be happy for others?

>>83598074
He is now.

>>83598186
Because morrisonfsgs bring up his shitty stories everywhere

Basil a cute! CUTE!

>>83596530
Basil is looking directly at the audience in the movie and the way it is framed is also looking directly at the reader while looking directly at the audience.

>>83596485
>mother was a kane

heh. I get it.

>>83596485

FUCKING SPOILER YOUR TEXT JESUS CHRIST

>>83596557
So it's Wrath, huh?

That was really bad senpai. Felt like it was written by an edgy teenager.

I did like the clayface parts though.

This was good, maybe the only james tyon comic that i have enjoyed.

Why doesn't Batman just get his old batfamily back together again? Are they still that salty after Death of the Family? I understand that Dick has to be a spy but where are the rest?

And where is Damien? Why isn't he part of this?

>>83599682
>Felt like it was written by an edgy teenager.
I am so god damn fucking sick to death of campfags dismissing anything serious as being edgy.
Burn the fuck in hell.

I feel like Batman has done a pretty good job training robins and sidekicks, heck, Snyders batman has like 2.

He's never once failed at a team effort. Kate Kane is pretty cool, I like her, I bought pretty much all her books from DCs first weekly all the way through that stupidty with her and etrigon in space. But her writers overcompensate and make her unrealistically good. She's had mainly B ranked successes. I see Batman picking her as a last resort. If Batman needs to trust someone, he should go back to Selina or Jason Todd.

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>>83596444
Not a fan of the butch saved head lesbian look.

The old hairstyle was so much better it isn't funny.

>>83596467
>I went through boot camp, so I don't need training from a guy who's mastered god knows how many martial arts
I love Kate, but come on

>>83596485
I refuse to believe this.

>>83596485
I do love the "I don't need to explain how he/she knows that Batman is Bruce Wayne" that all the writers are using right now.

>>83596497
>>83596506
Since when is Spoiler a genius hacker? And apparently better than Tim at that?

>>83599932
Kate is literally a butch lesbian

>>83596510
>the most dangerous fighter
But not so much in the Nu52. Though maybe they're changing that now.

>>83596535
>Batman smiling
Holy shit, that's creepy. I'd run back to Arkham if I were Clayface.

>>83596485
I thought he'd already told her

>>83596551
I like Clayface already.

>>83596569
I prefer the Pre-Flashpoint Red Robin suit.

Why is one of Batman's eyes consistently obscured by shadow in this? It's such a minor thing but it's really bugging me.

>>83599808
Damian doesn't need training, he needs social interaction.

>>83596524
they're for intimidation

>>83600374
stop having autism

>>83596535
What? Batman doesn't beat the shit out of Clayface and is actually offering help? Not muh.

>>83596557
>Arkham Knight

>>83596530
>>83596535
Can't Clayface basically shapeshift into anyone? Why not just shapeshift back into his old self and stay that way?

>>83596848
>>83596859

yeah, seems like the big bad isn't only manhattan but oz also, maybe even the entire watchmen gang, seems like that's what detective and action are setting up

>>83596356
Eh, cool premise, weak villain. I'll read in storytimes.

>>83600557
Got explained in a Snyder comic that he mutated further so he can copy anyone down to their DNA with the flaw that he can't replicate his own DNA anymore, which actually plugs the logical hole I've always had with him. The animated series always felt stupid, since he displays multiple times he can hold his original form no problem, yet he gives up immediately in trying to go back into acting with a huge advantage.

>>83602047
>The animated series always felt stupid, since he displays multiple times he can hold his original form no problem, yet he gives up immediately in trying to go back into acting with a huge advantage.
It couldn't last, it was like tensing a muscle. When he got greater control over his powers to make them last indefinitely he decided he liked being a criminal too much.

>>83596432
>Batwoman
And I'm out.

>>83596510

She needs a scarf/hood and lose the shoulderpads.

Otherwise, this was exactly what I was expecting. Entertaining, but not spectacular.

>>83596535
This scene should have ended with Batman and Batwoman sitting down to watch the rest of the movie with him in silence.

>>83596557
Meh. That was generic as fuck. The most interesting part is Clayface, but that's buried under too much other crap I don't care about. I'm sure the good parts will get posted on /co/, where some anon tries to convince me it's worth reading 22 pages of mediocrity to get one page of Clayface doing something amusing.

Also, the way the women were written was right on the edge of being "GRRRL POWER". Not enough to put me off, but enough to make me cautious.

>>83597615

Really. And the idea of Stephanie "canonically an idiot" Brown doing it to Tim "computer nerd" Drake is just so backwards.

Tynion has no idea how any of these characters work, and I bet the reason he's cramming so many of them into the same book is so that he can hide his ignorance behind the fact that there's not enough space to really have any of them DO anything. Especially since he already said he's going to add even more characters later.

>>83596613
>She's better the the kids because she's older and more expirence then them

Older, yes. More experienced? That's not remotely true for anyone except Spoiler.

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>>83596356

Hated it. Not a burning hatred, but an overwhelming sense of cold, grim displeasure. Only thing this issue had going for it is that the art is kind of nice. Otherwise it's clear that Tynion doesn't know these characters and doesn't know how to write a story through anything but exposition. The writing is just bad.

Considering that the first issue of anything Tynion writes is always the best one and quality drops dramatically immediately after that, it's noteworthy how low the starting point is this time around.

>>83600153
Tynion forgot he's not writing Harper "Fan Favorite" Row.

>>83600193
Again with the telling-not-showing. That's all Tynion knows.

>>83596485
Kate's reaction is great.

>Bruce Wayne acknowleging that him and Kate are cousins

>Bruce Wayne had to live with his butler for his entire childhood

wat

>>83596477
Well, it is supposed to be a jumping on point, so it's kind of important to establish the characters as quickly as possible. Which is literally the entire point and only point of that page.

>>83600153
I think I've found a pattern: Dick is smart, Jason is smart, Tim is a genius, Damian is a genius, Duke is a genius and Harper is a super genius.

Now Steph is a genius too. How about Cass? She's a genius too?

>>83603690
Alfred told Martha's brother or whoever to fuck off, iirc.
Or I'm hallucinating, everything is possible.

>>83596390
It's pretty cliche, but I have to admit that's a cool line

>>83603765
>Duke is a genius
How is Duke a genius? He seems extremely average.

>>83596510

Design is shit, but I could be potentially sold on it by giving it sexier curves. That way it could mimic Cass's original outfit with the bat motif removed.

Or they could just stop fucking around and give her her good outfit back. That could work too.

Also DC please fire Tynion. Please.

>>83596485
MARTHA Kane ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH

>>83600071

I'd hate it if this becomes Kate's new thing. "You may be an implausible super-assassin, but me, I was almost a marine, and that means I'm better!"

>>83603690
Ehhhh, Kate and Bruce's uncle was the one that could have given him support when he was a kid, Kate family was a military family that moved a lot and she pretty much got her mom and sister killed...well not her sister, so it really wouldn't have been fair to anybody to throw Bruce on them.

>>83596356
>Monkey's Paw Comics Presents: A series that could have been great if it was literally anyone else writing!

>>83596545
>Hey kids, I'm not gonna go easy on you, even though each one of you outclasses me almost effortlessly. Except maybe Clayface.

Even with Flashpoint retcons, Tim has been doing this for way longer than Batwoman. What the fuck.

>>83604136

Really, the idea that Kate somehow outranks these characters that are ALL older and more popular than her, as well as more experienced in the real continuity, that's the most insulting thing here. You dragged all these beloved characters here to belittle them. Way to fucking go.

>>83596757
Holy shit it's perfect

>>83604136
Tim sucks though lol

>>83596538
>So there turning detective comics into a sort of hero's of Gotham book

Why didn't they just resurrect Gotham Knights? Is it just because they think the 'Tec name sells more?

>>83596551
Clayface may end up being my favorite character

>>83604387
People would've cried at yet another Batman book

>>83596722
>lol this is so bad but so fun at the same time

I don't see any fun here. Just trash.

I feel like the only reason this isn't an outright atrocity yet is because nothing actually happened in the first issue. As soon as Tynion starts trying to have characters do things it's going to be an explosion of shit that makes BRE look fine in comparison.

>>83596557
This was actually pretty damn good for an introduction issue. Maybe Tynion finally got his act together.

Mark me down as cautiously optimistic.

>>83604404

Seems like Clayface is the only character the writer actually gives a shit about. You can tell their favorites because they get most effort put into their scenes. Also explains why the fuck he's in the book in the first place.

Now: Can we please get a writer for this book whose favorite characters are Tim, Cass and Steph? The main characters? Can you do that, DC?

>>83604505
>Mark me down as cautiously optimistic.

There's nothing cautious about your optimism. Maybe you meant "suicidally"?

>>83596859
Where?

>>83604136
Tim is "her lieutenant," Cass isn't being taught how to fight but how to not be crazy (basically the same job Babs had pre-N52) and I don't have a hard time believing Kate is better than Steph.

>>83604522
Are you retarded? For all the shit people justifiably give Tynion, he's a huge 90sfag and loves Tim Steph and Cass. He's the one who fought so hard to bring Cass and Steph back into continuity.

>>83604770
>For all the shit people justifiably give Tynion, he's a huge 90sfag and loves Tim Steph and Cass.

Bullshit. If he was actually a fan of those characters, he would understand their personalities and abilities and backgrounds better than not at all.

Saying he loves them in an interview means nothing, writers always claim every project is their most exciting and favorite project of all.

>He's the one who fought so hard to bring Cass and Steph back into continuity.

Source or bullshit. I see no reason to credit that to Tynion.

>>83604706

It really seems like the only reason Kate was put in charge of the team was because she's physically oldest.

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>>83596497
>the criminal genius Cluemaster

>>83604939
Also something something military

>>83604939
Yeah, they should have put Steph in charge.

>>83596859
Aquaman had black manta standing in front of a bunch of computers

>>83605273

Tim's the natural lead. But taking orders from a kid half her age would have upset Kate, so everybody just kind of humors her.

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>>83605273

>>83605338
Tim wasn't even the leader of his group of friends for the longest time

>>83605736

Even in Nu52 continuity Tim's the one who has been a vigilante longest and the only one who has led a team before.

>>83596432
Literally Lezbat. Godamn that faggot Tynion. This is why we can't have nice things, wonder how bad he's going to screw everyone else to try and make Kate look better?

>>83596467
>I need you Kathy, to pander to SJW.

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>>83596356
Dat new Detective Comics logo

>>83596510
Not gonna lie, I've wanted a Kate/Cass mentor thing for a long fucking time now.

>>83606948

Kate's creation is what screwed Cassandra. The whole reason her comic was canceled and she was turned into a shitty monologuing villain was so that Kate would be the only bat-lady.

>>83596497
>Steph Brown a better hacker than Tim Drake

You know, anyone can call their characters this or that. You actually have to write them like they were before for them to be those characters Tynion.

>>83604871
It was more Snyder who fought for Cassandra.

>>83607064
uh, source?

>>83596506
>We've go a plan for you...

Being trained by an amateur cunt? Is that your plan bitch, because last time I checked Tim Drake was the leader of his own team who faced down Trigon. He's a master of martial arts. AND he's done this ALOT longer than you. He really ought to be training your incompetent ass Kate

>>83596510
>Orphan

ughh why? Why? We have a shiton of Lanterns. Why can't she be Batwing or Batgirl. Why must there only be one batgirl?

>>83596521
Oh please, don't tell me. Bat Lesbian is going to teach Cass Cain how to beat up criminals. Because flunking out of West Point qualifies her to train the greatest super ninja the planet has seen.

>>83596545
You know, Kate being an overconfident bitch I could handle. Her saying shit and then everybody laughing in her face is fine.

But other than Steph, nobody here can learn anything from her.

Tim is at this point a trained superhero who trains other heroes. Cass is a literal weapon. Both of them should be point and done. Batman giving them over to an incompetent outsider like Batwoman is nonsense.

Steph needs training, but both Tim whose trained teen heroes like Wonder Girl and Superboy should be able to do that better than Lezbat.

>>83607173

It's a known thing. It was a part of a larger shakeup in the batbooks that was scheduled to coincide with Infinite Crisis. The plan was, Dick dies (he was lagging in popularity at the time), Jason becomes Nightwing to replace Dick, Cass becomes the "black sheep" character to replace Jason, and Kate becomes the token female to replace Cass. Only DC chickened out and didn't kill Dick after all, but they went ahead with the other changes anyway, resulting in a weird period where Jason and Dick were both Nightwing for a moment, and Cass got wrecked for nothing.

>>83607173
Various twitter posts, since deleted by various writers. Gail wanted to have Cass become a christian who dressed in white or some shit. Robinson was planning on using Cass as a villain or something. It all went to shit fast. Reaction to Batwoman from fans was meh until Williams made her his. Really her fanbase is either cunts who don't read comics or tumblr fags, lesbian fetishists, and Williams fans.

>>83605273
Still would have made more sense than a creepy older dyke whose biggest accomplish was fighting vampires in Gotham and spying on Batman for the DEO.

>Bringing together the team and getting everyone to trust and rely on eachother

Isn't this Grayson's job?

>>83607528

I always thought Batwoman as a character lost her reason to exist when JH Williams stopped drawing her. She was carried by the gorgeous, gorgeous art.

>>83604871
That was Snyder, who is a fan of Tim, Steph and Cass and wanted to use them as far back as Issue one. Harper was originally a compromise. Snyder included Cass in Gates and fought tooth and nail to have her.

None of this means Snyder actually would have executed this well. Dixon created Steph and largely made Tim. He also had a heavy hand in Cass' character to. Dixon and Snyder couldn't be more different in terms of sense.

>>83604551
if only. If people who liked this garbage were dead, we could have old DC back again.

>>83607709
>Snyder included Cass in Gates and fought tooth and nail to have her.
Eh, I was under the impression Gates of Gotham was 99% Higgins with Snyder on it as a boost.

>>83603940
meh, he has lots of 'hidden potential'.

TIM HAS ONLY BEEN RED ROBIN FOR 6 MONTHS, TIMFAGS. HE HAS BEEN RED ROBIN FOR LESS THAN DAMIAN AND KATE.

>>83596356
Does DC really think were gonna call Cass 'Orphan' instead if Black Bat

>>83602452
Hold up, I'm leaving too

>>83607215

Go fuck yourself, Lobdell.

>>83596455
Jean paul valley is dead? if this is just the dc universe with ten years missing how is he alive?

should I just accept that rebirth is just some excuse to shake shit up and that it'll NEVER make sense with what hapened in nu-52/flashpoint?

>>83607945
I don't think he's dead, but yeah there's no way to reconcile his N52 origin with Knightfall. I'm just going to keep a headcanon that ignores the N52 origins of Tim, JPV, and Cass. It makes everything easier.

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The whole concept of this book is stupid and demeaning. Treating heroes with decades of history like they're rookies and need miss "I failed US Army"'s handholding. Putting in Karlo blatantly because the writer can't write any of the characters that matter.

Why couldn't they have just made a straight team book?

>>83596557
>not explained why tim has a goofy robin suit again
>why the fuck is CLAYFACE suddenly going to be a goodguy? why would they ever think he could be anything other than a villain and why HIM of all people?
> villiains are just hurr dur arkham knight but an army


fucking garbage 3.5/10

>>83607780
Gates started out as a joint project to set up Snyder's next Bat story. Gates then got handed off by both snyder and Higgins due to Flashpoint.

>>83608228

Gates is a project that probably has a really weird history that the public isn't aware of. If you look at the solicits of it, they have NOTHING to do with the actual story. It's like they're talking about an entirely different comic, mentioning characters that never appear, etc.

I wonder what happened behind the scenes on that one.

>>83608184
>why the fuck is CLAYFACE suddenly going to be a goodguy?
Reformed villains are constant theme in bat comics.

>>83607803
Since Cass has always been scarier to criminals than even Batman, if they ever wanted to give her an original alias like Nightwing, I always wanted them to give her a horror motif, along with a fancy, scarier-sounding name. 'Orphan' is just ehh.

>>83608317
yes but why suddenly did they out of nowhere decide to reform clayface? it doesn't make any sense what was he even doing before this?

>>83608454
This was all prefaced in Batwoman's solo

>>83596444
I don't know why these people always adopt defensive postures when one of their own shows up.

>>83596836
>implying that Doctor Manhattan is not a member.

>>83596356
Are they bring back that logo? Always liked that one.

>>83597131
>I don't read much bat what's the gentry
Multiversal terraformars. They want to trigger 'crisis' events that leave the universe successively darker and more crapsack until it turns simply evil so that it's a suitable habitation for... whoever sent them.

Basically they're eldritch horrors, but with some actual ability to cause changes on a colossal scale. 5th Dimensional Imps are terrified of them.

(Of course a 5th Dimensional Dijin may have been responsible for wiping the Justice Society out of history in Rebirth so....

>>83608302
Johns pitched flashpoint as what Rebirth is, a fix. Dan and Jim decided at that period that instead of fixing the existing DCU they would just Reboot.

Snyder, Bryan Miller, and even Morrison had Batman issues they were working on. Most writers were informed about four issues out what was what. Some, like BQM and Cornell wrapped up their runs with this in mind.

Snyder's Black Mirror was enough of a hit that he was picked to write Batman and Swamp Thing. He was removed from the project to start work and had to pass off both Gates and Project Superman to third parties. Higgins was tapped to write Nightwing and also had to pass. By issue five, the series had three writers. It still came out okay. But allot of things like this occurred. Incorporated had to publish Leviathan, a collection of batman stories that morrison planned to tell before his finale.

>>83608365
>>83607803

"Orphan" makes no sense at all. It was the title of the henchmen of the villain of BRE. It's like if Batman had named himself Cop-Killer.

>>83608365
But Dick has to be nightwing again because of reasons.

>>83608736
I don't see why they couldn't just use Kassumi, her secret identity from JLE. It means 'mist,' and it sounds liek her real name.

>>83596485
How in the hell Bruce Wayne is Batman? that's stupid

>>83608770

I liked Kasumi as a cover identity in JLE, but the problem I have with it is that it's a Japanese word and Cass is Chinese.

(Or was. They haven't actually said anything about her ethnicity yet in this continuity.)

>>83608736
I know. Cass honoring David makes no sense.

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Because of the reboot when Not-Tim Drake, because he's not really Tim Drake, was introduced it was revealed to us that Not-Tim had been working with Batman for only six months before fighting with him and going alway to investigate the organization Men from NOWHERE.

So at most Not-Tim has been Red Robin for only 3 to 5 years.

Kate Kane kept all her continuity intact and was shown to be in the military since the beginning of Batman's career. That makes her much more experience than Not-Tim Drake. She has been fighting for almost 8 to 10 years.

Cass and Steph were just introduce, so other than Cass being a weapon she they're very green, specially Steph, and i doubt that Kate with train Cass in hand-to-hand combat.

>>83608853

It's not even David specifically, because it turned out that the old twat had like two dozen "Orphans" and they were all called that.

>>83608853
>>83608901

Fifty bucks says they came up with the name first in some brainstorming session where they were tossing names of various levels of edgelordiness in the air, and then they told Tynion to work it into the story, and Tynion put it in but made zero effort into trying to actually have it make sense as a thing that Cass would call herself.

>>83600071
Well, she did do a two year version of what Batman did with her dad's black ops contacts. Also, it's completely in character for Kate to resent someone trying to tell her what to do, even if it's dangerous or stupid to refuse help. She really only accepts help after she's completely self-destructed.

>>83608770
>>83608833
Who gives a shit. So what? unless your some PC jackass nobody cares.

>>83609082
>Who gives a shit

Anyone who wants the name to make sense.

It worked as a cover identity, because cover by definition means you're pretending to be somebody else. But it's not what she would call herself.

>>83596557
WE ARKHAM KNIGHT ALL UP IN THIS BITCH

>>83608877
She was at West Point, not Kandahar. Tim's done more as Red Robin than the cunt has in her time both in the military and as Batwoman.

Cass wasn't just a fighter, she was an assassin. There is nothing Kate could teach her the other two couldn't

Steph's the only 'green' one and even then, she's got roughly the same training. She's got less fighting than Kate but she's a much better detective/apparently tech savvy. Kate could at most teach Spoiler about endurance training. that's it.

>>83608901
>>83609004
I can believe this.

>>83609239
She is going to teach them how to work in a team

>>83609131
Eh, maybe her dad told her stories, of the eastern dwarves who raped nanking. And those stories were some of the few times her father seemed scared. So Cass will adopt a name from the people who scared her father. There, happy? Can we have the kick ass name now?

>>83609314
Tim drake is the leader of the fucking Teen Titans. Kate is a cunt whose insisted on flying solo most of her career. Stephanie has worked with the others her entire career. And Cass, well, Cass follows orders. Either Steph or Tim could teach her.

Face it. Batlesbian adds nothing here.

>>83609379

>Tim drake is the leader of the fucking Teen Titans.

You mean the team full of terrorists that are wanted in several states and that constantly had members of the team fucking off for being such a bad people? That team?

>>83609467
Don't bother, he's a Timfag.

>>83604342
Even in the "real" continuity, Batwoman is in-universe older than Tim, Cass and Steph. They were superheroes before her, but she's more experienced and has the military background.

>>83608228

It was supposed to be a seven-issue mini. It originally was to focus heavily on Cassandra. But when Higgins came on he and editorial liked the kids of Bruce coming together more so that was Higgins' add-on to the project.

Higgins told me because of Flashpoint they had to cut it down to five issues and cut a lot of scenes in the series. One in particular he hated cutting was a fight between Dick and Cassandra vs. the Architect in a clocktower.

He ended up using the fight edited up (no Cassandra, sub a Talon or another villain instead of Architect) in a clock tower for the most part in his Nightwing run.

>>83608365

I still think at a certain point Cassandra will "graduate" to a Bat-themed identity. The whole point of this series is boot camp and to improve. If that's true then perhaps Cassandra will adopt the Bat symbol more (which she has once already in this universe). And get a better costume.

Give her Jim's stupid sexy costume. Just put the mask on and belt. Bam. She make that costume look amazing.

>>83609467
Please don't tell me that N52 Titans is going to be the foundation for Tim's Rebirth character. I can't imagine a worse decision. When people said they wanted the old Tim they didn't just mean put him in his 90s costume.

>>83596521
Black guys face is melting in one of the panels.

>>83608454
Like every one of his appearances in the New 52?

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>>83608454
Last time I saw him was Gotham Academy, where he used his daughter to attack the school play. Not exactly reformed behavior.

>>83596400
>>83596417

Nite Owl and the Comedian here, Ozy in Action DC's not even going to try to be subtle with this Watchmen are Watching subplot.

>>83603940
well, he's able to pull off incredible feats, and he never had any sort of professional training. He discovers the secret identity of Batman, not even Tim can do that in the New 52.

And Snyder say: "Duke could either be better than Batman or.. wind up a villain."

>>83610838

Wasn't that an echo of Clayface though? That part of him of his "daughter"?

>>83611124
Maybe? I'm pretty sure he at least told her to do it which is still fucked up.

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>>83611123
If they want a "not really a sidekick or partner but still works with Batman a lot" guy why don't they just use Orpheus? Does anyone even remember him?

>>83611404
No because War Games was terrible, and no-one wants to remember it.

>>83596510
>Her first language is violence

I lost it there and laughed like fuck. That was a shame.

>>83596481

We have no idea what yur talking about.

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>>83596356
Not complaining but what happened to Batwing?

either of them

>>83612715

Both retired.

The first one told Batman to go fuck himself and the second one was cucked by Batgirl into setting a company up and run it for her while she goes off on a sex tour through Asia.

>>83608810
I know, right? Who comes up with this shit. We all know that Batman is Superman.

>>83612766
> one retired with dignity.
> the other retired to be a stupid love interest.

Damn Luke Fox got a raw deal. I still miss Nightrunner. Wish he could have been in this comic.

>>83596477
>>83606273
They really exist people who get angered because a girl talk about a date in one bubble of a page which contains 15 bubbles...

>>83614162
>retired with dignity
>throwing a bitchfit

Yeah nah

>>83596455
Batman shows her an object while saying he found something on a crime scene and she's saying Batman built it?
Does this writer have trouble understanding what he wrote?

>>83614755
>I found this but haven't commented on what it was doing there or how it was made
>It's bat themed
You seem to be having more trouble parsing her logic than the writer.

>>83596530
>>83596535
>>83596545
>>83596551
Clayface is the only reason to read this book

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>>83596356
Why can't they do something worthwhile and interesting in Detective Comics nowadays?

I'm not interested, not one bit. The only reason I started reading this storytime, was because for some reason I thought this was the OTHER Bat book.

>>83596432
>Batwoman out

Pottery

>>83610104
>military background.

"Military background" is incredibly unimpressive compared to anything any street level vigilante does.

>>83596598
you aren't alone anon thats one of the best costumes tim's had in a while

>>83615824
I feel so sorry for you, man. But, honestly, if you like it, then you like, God bless you, but did you really? Like it, I mean? Was it worth it?

>>83615824
Unf

>>83615824
How do fans keep coming up with better ideas than people for whom it's literally their job?

>>83615824

Much better.

>>83616449

Almost every fan idea boils down to "just use the version of the character that people actually liked". The real question is, why don't DC editors apply that no-brainer of a solution?

>>83616717
Tynion.

>>83616784

No, DC itself don't wan't any other Batgirl.

>>83616784
>implying the writer is responsible for the artist's decisions

>>83608721
So what catastrophe are they bringing here?

>>83604942
Well, he did manage to pull off the events of Batman Eternal, he was just too vain to remember that notOwlman would backstab him.

>>83596516
she got booted out pretty much a week before boot camp ended, and at the time was top of her class

>>83611038
Explain? I don't see them

>>83611038
Don't talk shit. Comedian's dead. We even saw his blood spattered smiley face badge.

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>>83596467
>>83596432
>West Point Cadet
>Eventually leading a squadron
>Went to Basic
This is too stupid. A squadron is a rare cavalry only unit designation that a female would never find herself in charge of. And the only reason a West Point cadet would go to basic would be if they were prior enlisted and clearly she's not that old. Couldn't the writer have done basic research on how the military works? I know I'm being a sperg but this shit just takes me right out of the story.

>>83596722
It was all set up. Next issue better pick up the pace or do something otherwise interesting.

>>83616717
>The real question is, why don't DC editors apply that no-brainer of a solution?

Because their bosses don't want her to be associated with Batgirl or Batperson. Remember Snyder, one of DC's a-list, fought tooth and nail to use her and lost against editorial. The same for Morrison using her as Black Bat.

>>83596506
>soldier
one year in west point and she thinks she's an officer?

>>83596613
>more expirence then them

More experience at eating out one night stands, maybe.

>>83596500

That's what I'm thinking, Imma be pissed if they don't have something to do with it.

>>83596521
>>83596847

Yeah I noticed that too. Cain vs the Marvel universe?

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>>83596551

CLAYFACE CAN NOT INTO SWINGING GUYS!

;_;

Detective Comics 934 (2016) (2 covers) (digital) (Minutemen-Drunk Monk)
http://www116.zippyshare.com/v/yi8Pbg3h/file.html

bumop

>>83608568
because kate kinda hates bruce

>>83615824
Thanks anon

>>83596643
caught in a landslide...

>>83596356
So is the same guy that is spying them here spying Superman in Action Comics?

>>83628220
It's DC. It'll NEVER make sense.

>>83622277

That's just a description of how they are being fucking idiots, not an explanation WHY they are such fucking idiots.

It's one hundred percent obvious to every reader what they should do, yet they refuse to do it. It's insane.

>>83596356
Shit book.

>>83623967

Maybe they'll teach him.

bimp

>>83615824
Unf.
Fuck you DC.

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Would it have fucking killed them to get somebody on this book who knows the history of the characters? In their "let's bring old shit back event"?

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For all debating about who is better.
Tim debuted as a Red Robin around year before Kate debuting as Batwoman, but she trained herself for much longer (we see her doing physical training in Zero Year). On the other hand, Tim had some training with Batman.

Steph was rather shitty till she trained with Catwomen, so she is out. Cass fights well, but she is no leader material, and she needs to learn how to work better with others and fit into society. Clayface is cool, but he is Clayface.

So that leaves us with Kate and Tim as possible leaders. Bboth are probably at pretty similar level of skill, but I would say that Kate will be better at keeping them in line.

Well, if Batgirl wasn't acting like mentally handicaped 15 years old (I really hope that new writers will fix that) and hanging with her own crowd then she could create her league of Batgirls earlier.

>>83633546

Futures End: Batgirl was an unbelievably shitty and retarded comic and should be used as a model for nothing.

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Detective Comics #937 cover by Alvaro Martinez and Raul Fernandez

>>83596510
She just needs ears, and her design's alright

>>83596417
RIP.

>>83596551
> Spoiler: what are we doing way out here?
> ClayFace: and why did i have to take a cab?!

>>83620935
Isn't she Navy though? I think her dad means a Navy Squadron like as an admiral or something

>>83596521
>Covering the kids eyes

He's read her initial run at least. It may sound lame, but that's enough for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. Uses too much telling instead of showing though.

>Batman because Gotham is his city
>Batwoman because she's better at training a squad than Batman is
>Spoiler because she's unpredictable and adaptable
>Red Robin because he's smart
>Orphan because she's dangerous
>Clayface because Batman thinks he can save him?
But seriously, what practical reason is there for Clayface being on the team?