Dawn of Justice 2.0

>>83435687
KINO
I
N
O

But seriously. I'm excited.

Has a director's cut ever actually saved a shitty movie?

>>83435732
Kingdom of Heaven was a pretty shit movie, and the DC was amazing. I also thought the Watchmen Theatrical cut was just OK, but the DC was fantastic

I don't agree BvS was shit though.

http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-ultimate-cut-response/
Pretty much agree with this guy, don't set yourselves for another praying circle scenario. Break Snyder's cycle of hype.

>>83435893
There's a sizeable amount of people who had issues with the film because it was lacking plot coherency, character development and had bad editing and flow as the main culprits (that's where I stand)

For those people, the Ultimate Cut definitely seems like it'll be a better movie.

If you dislike the overall tone and the angle Snyder has on the characters, then yeah I can see people still hating it.

>>83435687
>Lads, I'm actually looking forward to this.
Nigga, it's still Znyderseid

>>83435687
If the movie isn't jarring to watch and actually paces itself properly with this cut, it'll likely go from a 3/10 to a 5/10. Maybe even a 6/10

>>83435687
>>Supes actually didn't just leave the Senate after the bomb went off, but stayed and helped the survivors despite protesters outside.
Horse drowning and piss jars was worth keeping, but this was not?

>>83435732
Dardevil, ironically.

>>83435687
it will probably be better

but IDK if it can lift the movie up to decent

>>83435687
The Snyder cycle begins again.

Also, the OP picture is everything wrong with the DCEU.

>>83435732

Like this anon said >>83435793

Kingdom of Heaven theatrical is like a 5 or 6/10 at best. Director's Cut is 10/10.

I loved Batman v Superman; I'd give it an 8 maybe 7/10 if I'm being overly critical.

I'm just excited to see more of the film.

>>83435732
Blade Runner. The theatrical cut is garbage, never watch it. It's probably the most famous movie for having multiple director's cuts which made it into a classic.

>>83435687
>>Supes actually didn't just leave the Senate after the bomb went off, but stayed and helped the survivors despite protesters outside.
it's this shit i'm worried about.
if they shot this scene and the bigwigs figured they should cut it, wouldn't it miss the point of supes entirely?

>>83437255
The bigwigs don't decide what to cut, they just tell them they have to cut it down.

>>83437255
We already saw him saving a little girl. This supes still says nobody stays good in this world. Adding more stuff may hurt him more.

>>83437255
I'm really curious who made the decision to cut that was. Because if it was Snyder's that proves what all the naysayers are saying about him not getting it.

>>83437354
so the editors cut it? why would they do that?
>>83437366
because of this? isn't him saying that part of the problem of their interpretation of superman?

Anyone knows what's the music in the second part of the trailer? I'm loving it and I don't remember it from the OST.

>>83437458
He...fucking shot the scene. It doesn't prove shit.

Rumour is bigwigs wanted more Batman and less Superman

That's probably the answer.

>>83435687
100% more would mean it makes the exact same amount of sense. I think you mean 200% more, which I agree it does

https://twitter.com/larryfong?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

it's shit

>>83437801
This is the cinematographer btw

>>83437255
WB execs are stupid as fuck. When they were doing GL and Alan Scot was revealed to be gay in the comics, Geoff Johns had to go in and tell them that there's more than one GL.

>The sexual orientation of Alan Scott didn’t faze DC publisher Dan DiDio, who supported Robinson’s decision. Warner Brothers, however, was confused: did this mean that star Ryan Reynolds, who played Hal Jordan in the 2011 film adaptation of "Green Lantern," would be gay? "Geoff (Johns) had to go in and explain that there were lots of Green Lanterns, and this was just one of them," Robinson said.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/dc_comics/how-dcs-gay-green-lantern-caused-warner-bros-some-serious-a75104

>>83437834
>WB execs are stupid as fuck.
As much as I don't think everyone needs to be an expert on my hobby it's really working against these people.

>>83435687

I'm sorry, but Lex Luthor still makes this unwatchable. A hero movie is only as good as its villain and nothing about Lex works. Nothing. I still can't believe how they fucked up this bad. It's almost impossible. How did they not get this right? How hard is it to fuck up a bald 1% manipulative asshole that still so suave as fuck your girlfriend's panties still get wet for him. Hell, the U.S. is run by nothing but Lex Luthors. Just go to Washington and follow a Republican around and take notes.

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1MB, 2673x1750px

>>83435687
It keeps happening!

>>83438340
Because rehashing generic evil white businessman is boring and cliche? DCEU Lex gave depth to comic Lex's one-dimensional hate for Superman.
Also if the character development from Bruce and Clark is anything to go by, we might see a more iconic Lex in the future.

>>83438514

But just LOOK at him. He's like if you mashed a Google new-hire with Ledger's Joker. Hell, even the Nostalgia Critic has they guy playing him yell "Why so serious". It's not Lex. Period. And you don't make him boring and cliche just because he's a good business man. It's called good writing. You make he smooth as fuck and relatable. Give him a really good reason not to trust an alien capable of destroying all life on Earth if he wanted to. Is that REALLY so hard. This Lex hates him for really no reason other than that so.... he makes a more powerful alien?! All of my WTFs. All of them.

>>83438662
>This Lex hates him for really no reason other than that so.... he makes a more powerful alien?!
His father abused him. This caused him to realise that there could be no God. Because if God was all powerful, why did he not intervene? Lex comes to the conclusion that God could not be both all good and be all powerful. Then along comes Superman, an 'all powerful' being. Lex sets out to prove to the world that Superman is not all good. To prove the "holes in the holy".

See, stuff like this makes me wonder about all the shitting over BvS. Lex's motivations are clearly explained in the movie. Do people just zone out? Is the movie REALLY too deep for the casual movie goer?

is this movie gonna be 3 or 3.30 hours?

>>83439459
3h IIRC

>>83435732
Daredevil directors cut is a 4/5 for me. It fixes most of the problems in the theatrical cut, is much more coherent and it cuts out that god awful playground fight scene

>>83438777
Not that other anon, but while that's not the worst motivations ever I prefer Luthor's disdain in the comics for a being that he feels is taunting him with his mere existence. Luthor works every day of his life to build his life as to be the most intelligent, rich, powerful, feared and respected person not only in metropolis but the world, but it all pales in comparison to Superman's sheer abilities except for Lex's intelligence.

Making him feel inadequate and bitter with jealousy. An egotist straight off wallstreet that has worked to the bone from dirt for everything he has, that can never be number 1 because he's permanently stuck behind a man who never had to make the sacrifices he did.

>>83435687
Soooo when is it getting released?

>>83438777
I know a number of people who did, in fact, zone out. That's not a slight against the audience, it's a testament to the immersive power this movie has: None.

But even beyond that, it really shouldn't be explained that Lex's motivation in the movie is beyond pathetic, and only makes sense if you actually accept the movie's absurd premise of Superman=God at face value, and has no actual resonance with the rest of Lex's character.
Nobody remembers Lex's motivation because there's narrative meaning to it.

For every 'directors cut' it's actually the director's fault. He should've known studios won't release a 3 hour movie (unless muh Lord of the Rings) and set a goal to make a good story within the time frame.

That said, DD, Watchmen and Kingdom of Heaven are good examples as people already mentioned. Kingdom of Heaven went from mediocre to critically acclaimed. Most director cuts are just extra shit and don't enhance the movie.

>>83438514
This is such a weird post because he's still an evil white businessman, just a kooky one with less accomplishments of his own.

>>83435687
are Gotham citizens really complaining that Batman has become more brutal against criminals?

>>83438777
Dude, none of what you said addresses the "makes a more powerful alien" point. It explains why he hates Superman, sure, (even if I think it's unnecessary) but not why he'd make an even more powerful thing.

I'm gonna say something controversial too. Max Landis wrote a better Luthor than what we were given.

>>83440994
>I'm gonna say something controversial too. Max Landis wrote a better Luthor than what we were given.
If you're referring to Luthor in American Alien, that was the best Luthor in, like, half a decade. Maybe more.

AA flubbed on a lot of things, but Luthor was spot on.

>>83440986
Remember the context - even after a long time in action, Batman isn't working out in the open as a hero, he's not even known as Batman just "The Bat of Gotham"

So you've got a shadow vigilante that's become scary as fuck. The people he saved in the scene early in the movie were so terrified when the police unlocked their cage to let them out they slammed it back shut

>>83438514

What was DCEU Lex's motivation for cloning Doomsday? Serious question.

>>83438662
>>83438777

Did he really say in the movie his father abused him? Abused him how? Maybe I did zone out because I don't remember that at all. I did hit the bathroom once...

Maybe I will check this out once it's released. If anything just to be sure I see the whole story.

>>83435687
>Few seconds of new footage in Africa, scene already makes 100% more sense than the theatrical cut
the only people it didn't make sense to were retards and children who can't pay attention.

>>83441187

killing superman but it was also implyed that he was trying to get ready for whatever is coming from the sky.

>>83435962
Except the idea of of re-releasing and re-charging for a movie in theaters after "fixing it" is just awful. If you all go and pay to see this again, more corporations are going to do it and it'll be a nightmare.

Release you extended cut on DVD like everyone else you hacks.

>>83440986
Seeings as how people of the world are protesting that Superman is saving lives, I wouldn't be surprised.

>>83436250
> Horse drowning and piss jars was worth keeping, but this was not?

Synder hates showing Superman saving people unless it is immediately coupled with the masses fawning over him like a god they can never hope to touch.

Like that scene where Superman goes to 'save' that family from the flood, and just fucking sits there floating in the air dramatically a dozen meters away from the house for like two full minutes.

>>83441087
Makes sense. I like that though. Batman actually scaring the fuck out of people is cool.

>>83441336
Are you okay? As in are you mentally sound? The movie is coming out on dvd and blueray....

>>83438514
>DCEU Lex gave depth to comic Lex's one-dimensional hate for Superman

No, it created an entirely different one-dimensional hate for Superman, one built on daddy issues and edgy atheism that adds to Snyder's subtle, SUPERMAN IS GOD DOYEGEDDIT? motif rather than one based on humanism and ideological opposition to Superman's ideals and methods for saving humanity.

At his best, Lex Luthor is a foil for Superman in every conceivable way, thematically, ethically and morally, in BvS, he's a whiny teen yelling at Snyder's whiny teen image of Superman-as-God.

>>83441192

Lex strongly alluded to it in the 'lets talk about this painting' scene where he refuses to respond to anything the senator says and just continues on his monologue about his past and motivations like he is talking into a tape recorder.

>>83441329
He had no control over the thing, though. How is that preparation for anything?

>>83438340
>still so suave as fuck your girlfriend's panties still get wet for him

I always thought Lex was supposed to THINK he's suave but actually come off as kind of a creep in person.

I didn't really like the movie and adding 30 minutes to it probably won't help, but just watching a trailer again now reminds me that if Snyder could give up being the man in control, imagine how good a cinematographer he'd be.

Look how much better visually it is that the other companies making superhero movies, even if it's worse in every way other than visuals.

>>83441420

Synder's Lex is ultimately just the most pathetic fucking person I have ever seen, and we are supposed to fear this man as a villain.

He isn't all that smart, none of this plans make sense. In fact, he would have been arrested within the first 10 minutes of the movie for the shit he pulled in Africa if it had not been inconvenient for the US government to admit that they had an undercover CIA agent on the scene. If Jimmy Olsen had not been there, or even had just survived the scene, Lex's first and only scene would have been getting arrested.

His motivations are daddy issue fueled militant atheism because Superman is literally Jesus. This is the sort of deep but nonsensical motivation I expect out of generic anime villains.

He isn't charismatic, he can't even manage a speech at his own party without sperging out into a stuttering mess after a few minutes of rambling about prometheus. And this was at a party he had months to prepare for, fucker clearly didn't even write a speech. So not only does he have the social prowess of a lobster, but he lacks the basic forethought to prepare ahead of time to not advertise that to the world.

And of course he isn't a physical threat, not that Lex is supposed to be for superman.

But what this boils down to is that the ONLY thing that makes lex threatening is his money. He isn't smart, he isn't string, he isn't charming enough to get away with murder, he can't manipulate for shit... the only thing that makes him dangerous is the fact that he can through 10 billion dollars at whatever trickles his insane fancy at the moment.

...but thats all money that he inherited from his dad. Its not even money he made himself. Lex, himself, is totally fucking worthless. His greatest achievement is not having pissed away the family fortune yet.

Its a sad fucking day when Shinji Ikari is less pathetic than you.

>>83441402
Not really. But it's my bad, the /tv/-tards were going on about this being re-released in theatres last night, so I guess that carried over.

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85KB, 1600x685px

>>83438340
>How hard is it to fuck up a bald 1% manipulative asshole that still so suave as fuck your girlfriend's panties still get wet for him.

It's not like the previous attempt got that right either

>>83441540

The kryptonian database had only records of one doomsday and was very kryptic with its warning, given that DCEU superman is indestructible, Lex had not much choice other than create his own kryptonian.

>>83435732
Are you confused? If a DC is going to do ANYTHING positive, it'll be for a bad theatrical cut. Yes, a turd is a turd, but it's movies that had good theatrical cuts where the DC just makes it a mess, and is a 'fuck you' to the editors.

>>83441420
>>83441606
Fucking these.

>>83441634
>It's not like the previous attempt got that right either
God, I forgot how perfect Spacey looked as Luthor. If only he had somethign to work with.

>>83435687

how about posting the fucking trailer you mongoloid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO19XY2rqc

I didn't even expect a trailer and this one had the potential to be an actual theatrical trailer. fuck, it was awesome

>>83435687

It still seems like a lot of Superman's character is being informed through other people lecturing him rather than him getting a chance to speak on his behalf, which is quite honestly my biggest problem with the movie.

>>83437530

I think the movie works better highlighting Lex and Batman as foils for each other anyways.

>>83440555
>one of the oldest problems in Judeo-Christian theology
>The Problem of Evil
>pathetic

Fuck man, I'm a devout Catholic and from my experience that is the single most common reason I've seen for people who walk away from the church, or faith in God in general. The whole movie is about our tendency to project our own mindsets, expectations and insecurities onto our heroes and god figures, which is what everyone does in BvS to Superman. Including Lex. He thinks everyone else is either just as sociopathic as he is, or is otherwise too weak and powerless to be a concern. Even Superman.

>>83441329

So his plan to kill a powerful superhuman being which he viewed as a threat was to create an even more dangerous, destructive, and uncontrollable being which would be even more of a threat?

Truly, the greatest mind of the age.

>>83441192
>>83441428
He says no god in the sky intervened to save him from daddy's fist.
And then Superman stops Doomsday from punching Lex.
Pottery.

>>83441606
>His greatest achievement is not having pissed away the family fortune yet.
>pissed away
>piss
Heh

>>83441365
Because Clark is uncomfortable with the public perceiving him as a 'god'. Look at the scene where he saves the child from the fire. He floats down, child in arms, with a smile on his face, then the crowd reach out to him like he's some sort of messianic figure and his smile disappears. He becomes uncomfortable. Again, he hesitates to save the family atop the house in the flood because they are reaching out to him, as he's in front of the sun, depicted as a being of the sun (references to the Sun God are throughout the movie) because again, he is uncomfortable and under immense pressure. He's just a boy from Kansas who wants to save people, not be viewed as an all powerful 'god'.

>>83441428

He states it outright when giving his monologue on top of the tower to Superman.

>>83441666
Still makes no sense. Why unleash something you can't control or reason with? If he was worried about the upcoming invasion, why not try to manipulate or control Superman into protecting him?

Also, that computer inside the ship is fucking retarded:

>According to my master's program and laws, it's forbidden to do that, Dave, I mean Lex.
>Are you masters alive?
>No.
>So let me do it.
>Ok.

What? Why build a retarded computer to protect your shit? The kryptonians being dead should not override their security systems!

>>83441880
This. The movie is bad and Lex is bad. The whole thing is stupid.

>>83441880
>dangerous, destructive, and uncontrollable being

The whole point is that Batman thought superman could turn evil and Lex didnt want to be at the mercy of such being.

You know superman, you know he'll never turn evil(eventhough he did a lot of times in comics) but batman and Lex don't want someone that powerfull to exist, it challanges their believes and drives them crazy.

Lex also created Doomsday with his own blood, meaning he is the one to defeat god.

>>83441955
>Why unleash something you can't control or reason with?

He really, really, REALLY wants to fucking kill Superman.

This isn't anything new for Lex.

>>83441880
Not that it in any way excuses how it comes across in the theatrical cut, but Lex is serving one of Darkseid's minions.

He's doing a really terrible thing because a super villain is making him.

>>83441879
>Fuck man, I'm a devout Catholic and from my experience that is the single most common reason I've seen for people who walk away from the church, or faith in God in general. The whole movie is about our tendency to project our own mindsets, expectations and insecurities onto our heroes and god figures, which is what everyone does in BvS to Superman. Including Lex. He thinks everyone else is either just as sociopathic as he is, or is otherwise too weak and powerless to be a concern. Even Superman.
That was some grade A missing the point man. Congrats!

>>83441890
>references to the Sun God are throughout the movie
Why haven't you killed yourself yet?

I didn't like Lex sperging around the first half of the movie but loved his performance at the tower and the scenes after.

>>83442032
Oh, ok. If he really really really wanted, now the character makes complete sense.

>>83442020
Batman and Lex are pants on head retarded in this movie.

>If there's 1% chance he turns evil, I have to kill him.
Will he try to kill Flash, Aquaman and WW too? Because they can hurt a lot of people if turned evil too.

>I don't want to be at mercy of a super powerful being
So I'll go ahead and create an even more indestructable, unreasonable powerful being, that will try to kill me as soon as it's born. Thank God that asshole Superman was there to save me.

Why do people like this movie again?

Who says Lex knew Doomsday would be an uncontrollable monster? He seemed shocked it straight up tried to kill him after it hatched.
Lex could have been overwhelmed from what he learned in the Kryptonian ship, fucking up his already broken psyche even more.
Perhaps the deleted Kryptonian birthing chamber sequence explains that Lex was being manipulated to create Doomsday, maybe to destroy Superman, maybe to get Earth ready for Darkseid. How else could he have known about Darkseid coming?

>>83441890
>Sun God
It was Icarus

>>83442106
>Look mum I told someone to kill them self on an anonymous image board again!

>>83442144
>>If there's 1% chance he turns evil, I have to kill him.
>Will he try to kill Flash, Aquaman and WW too? Because they can hurt a lot of people if turned evil too.
Bruce at that time was consumed by the fever and rage to take down Superman. But after realising Supes is just a man, he sees the error in his ways and what he's become. Clark restores Bruce's faith in humanity and the desire to do things the right away. He says he won't fail Clark in death and is most likely back to being the Batman we all know and love.

>>83442077

Superman is not God, but he's a figure of power and authority and many of those same problems carry.

Problem of Evil assumes that God thinks the same way you do with the same access to limited knowledge and wisdom. "Well if I had these powers, I would do this".

Projecting our own edpectations onto a figure of authority or a role model or hero like Superman assumes something similar, that you have perfect knowledge of the situation and the other person thinks exactly the same way you do.

Look at Batman's conflict with Superman. He deals in violence to try and kill Supes because he assumes that Superman cannot be reasoned with, does not adhere to moral values and does not value human life. In other words, he treats him the same as a criminal in Gotham. It isn't until that Batman is forced to acknowledge the fact that he DOESN'T have perfect knowledge of the situation and Supes does indeed have a moral bearing that can be reasoned with (he pleads for his mom's life when about to die), that he is also forced to reevaluate that assumption and open communication instead of only treating him with violence.

>>83442236
>>Look mum I told someone to kill them self on an anonymous image board again!
I'll have you know she's very proud.

>>83441890
>Because Clark is uncomfortable with the public perceiving him as a 'god'.

Then talk to people, for God's sake. He's a grown ass man! He's also a fucking journalist. You're telling me Superman wouldn't talk to the goverment and explain his reasons?

It's not ok to see a man, 4 years older than myself, moping around saying 'they don't understand me, boohoo'. It's obnoxious as fuck. If he doesn't want to be perceived as god, stop acting like one. Explain yourself, talk to people!

>tfw all these marveldrones shit on the movie and hate everything they can
>tfw all DC drones hate on MCU movies and hate everything they can
>tfw I enjoy every movie as much as I can and don't give two shits about other people's opinions as long as I like the movies

you retards make me laugh, paying attention to reviewers and other people telling you what to think. if you don't like it, who the fuck gives a shit?

>>83442236
>lark restores Bruce's faith in humanity and the desire to do things the right away.

How!? How did Superman restored Batman's faith in humanity? They barely interacted with each other.

>>83442144
>o I'll go ahead and create an even more indestructable, unreasonable powerful being, that will try to kill me as soon as it's born. Thank God that asshole Superman was there to save me.

That's always been Lex in a nutshell. No matter how smart he thinks he is at the end of the day he's shortsighted and self-destructive as hell.

>>83442307
You're retarded if you think people here are only repeating opinions from critics or just shilling. Go feel superior somewhere else.

>>83442144
He was already watching Flash et al. Probably would have tried to kill them. Or control them.

>>83442349
It was still an awful way to portray Lex. He looked like a total suicidal idiot in the movie.

>>83442309
Bruce was in such a downward spiral he was brutalizing the fuck out of people and death branding them.

The literal being not from this planet showed more humanity than he did, in the moments before his death for the sake of saving Earth.

I'm still hoping for an extended cut of "Man of Steel".

>>83442388
Then Batman is an awful person and not a hero at all.

>>83442365

and you are retarded if they don't. half of the comments here don't even address actual issues the movie had, just "that's stupid" and "I don't like it". the quality of posts on /co/ has always been declining, but nowadays it's just nonexistent, especially when it comes to movies since 99% of the people here know jackshit about movies in general

BvS has actual potential to be good with proper pacing but people are too biased to even give it a shot

>>83442278
>You're telling me Superman wouldn't talk to the goverment and explain his reasons?
Didn't he try that in MoS?

>>83442309
>be Batman for 20+ years
>Robin is kill
>Criminals keep popping up like weeds
>Bruce becomes more ruthless
>Superman shows up, an apparent unstoppable force of power
>Batman never encountered anything like him before
>The branding didn't happen until the Battle of Metropolis
>Batman just views him as that: an unstoppable 'god'
>Consumed by the drive to destroy him
>Literally mentions how the first generation of Waynes were hunters
>Him killing Superman may very well be his first cold-blooded murder
>In the moment he has his foot on Clark's throat he states that Clark was never a god, never even a man
>Clark mentions Martha
>Bruce obviously reacts
>Lois runs in to inform Bruce that Martha is Clark's mother's name
>Bruce realises Clark, a supposed 'god' has a mother, realises Clark IS just a man
>Bruce swears to save Clark's Martha, he couldn't save his own but he'll be damned if another will die and this time he can prevent it

>>83442439

*if you think they aren't

>>83442402
>showed more humanity than he did, in the moments before his death for the sake of saving Earth.

I didn't see that at all. He just killed the monster created from things of his own planet, again. And the fact that he was the one who had to it is debatable.

This movie could have been great, if only it had a competent director.

>>83442439
Learn how to talk to peple, mongoloid, or go back to your cave.

People here are actually debating the fucking movie. You'll see it if you take the time to get off your high horse and read.

>>83442451
you didn't explain the huge jump between
>batman views him as that :an unstoppable 'god'
and
>consumed by the drive to destroy him

>>83442451
>Didn't he try that in MoS?
It was obviously not enough, since people are still afraid of him. I don't understand why Superman was flying around scaring everybody with his godly powers and not try to calm people down. It's a forced plot device. Remember that Superman barely talks in the movie.

And all that shit you greentexted makes no sense.

>He has a mother, so he's just a man.
>I'll let him live now.

That's just bad writing.

>>83438340
As far as I'm concerned, there has never been a good live-action Lex in a live-action movie.

Smallville Lex was alright though, from what I remember.

>>83442637
The scene might be hamfisted and blunt but you're somehow not getting it.

Batman, a man whose entire existence is fixated on the trauma of his mother being killed in front of him and who once steadfastly opposed killing anybody because of it, was about to murder an alien, who in it's last breath cared more about it's mother than it's own life.

Said alien, who seemed virtually immortal, gave it's life for people.

If you can't see how that's a gigantic wakeup call for Batman, I'm not sure how it could ever be explained to you.

>>83442794
>said life who seemed immortal gave it's life for people
caring for his mom while dying =/= giving his life for her

>>83442794
People are dumb. Look at this guy >>83442633. Can't fill in the obvious gaps himself and needs to be spoon fed. People have become so accustomed to MCU's safe storytelling that anything remotely different or complex is alien to them. Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of both companies but people are just blatantly hating on BvS for the sake of it or hating on it using unjust reasoning.

>>83442835
YES IT IS BECAUSE IF BATMAN WAS SUCCESSFUL IN KILLING CLARK THEN LEX WOULDN'T KILL HIS MUM YOU STUPID PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT LITERALLY SUCK MY ENTIRE ASS.

>>83442794
This.

My only problem is that, immediately after this, he still probably kills some Luthor's henchmen at the warehouse, mostly the one in the truck that exploded, and the ones with the grenade, although those were more manslaughter than murder, as Snyder put it. As long as he stays away from it in the future, I'll be okay with that. I honestly love a Batman who kills random thugs, I blame growing up on '89 Bats

>>83442835
Maybe he used the wrong words, but the thing was that Superman was dying, and his final words conveyed that even though Bruce may kill him, he wants him to make sure his mother is safe, because Superman never thought Batman was bad, just misguided. This is why his first instinct was to convince him to help against Luthor, until it became obvious Batman wasn't listening.

>>83442883
It's not my job to explain your arguing. It's yours.
"Educate yourself" is a tumblr thing.

>>83442883
>LEX WOULDN'T KILL HIS MUM
>implying he wouldn't have anyway.

>>83442696
Smallville Lex was great character.

Smallville Lionel on the other hand, was a great Lex Luthor.

At least until they ran out of ideas.

>>83442939
I thought /co/ was tumblr now?

>>83442835
He could have spent his last moments continuing to fight for his life, even if it was ultimately futile, but he instead conceded and used his last words to appeal to his killers humanity to at least save his mother.

>>83442974
Retarded point, because Lex told him that if he didn't kill batman he'd kill his mum.

He didn't say what happens if Batman killed him.

>>83442794
I guess it can't.

I still don't agree with those ideas of BvS not being a shitfest of a bad movie.

>>83442995
He was unable to keep fighting for his life. He was beaten and at batman's mercy. Pleading was all he could.

>>83442883
Check out this fag, guys!

>>83442974
>>83442997
Lex wouldn't gain anything from killing Martha after Clark was dead. His plan was to prove Clark was not all good and he was using Martha as leverage for that point. If Clark was dead he would have no more reason to kill her. But dude's fucking crazy so who knows.

>>83442999
>I still don't agree with those ideas of BvS not being a shitfest of a bad movie.

Your mistake is thinking people are arguing otherwise. The conversation you're in isn't "Is BvS a really good movie Y/N?"

>>83443050
It's whether it can be saved by a DC or not. I'm saying it can't because it's an awful movie in the first place.

>>83435732
If they ever released the directors cut of Green Lantern the back half of the movie would have been more coherent

>>83442506

>People here are actually debating the fucking movie

yeah, shitposting really counts as "debating", sure

>>83443112
You're the only one shitposting in here.

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>There's a new kind of mean in him: He's a big guy and he's hunting.

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>>83443440
It keeps happening

>>83443544
noice

>>83441955
That's not even the stupidest thing the computer did,
>Hello General zod, have you lost weight?my full body scanner shows you have become shorter.
>What's this you have a dead body for me? My scanners show that this body belongs to general zod
>my record's show that all the kryptonians are dead
>My DNA scanner shows that your blood is human
> Never mind all that, you must be General Zod because you photocopied his fingerprints or whatever.

>>83443544
>people think Lex having these files and crafted logos is stupid
>Lex was literally researching metas and writing a 'metahuman thesis'
But we can't be reasonable! Gotta hate on something I guess

>>83435732
Kingdom of Heaven.

The DC feels like an almost entirely new movie and fixes every problem the theatrical cut had. It makes the movie a legit 10/10 from the 4/10 the theater cut had been.

>>83435687
I am excited for the Ultimate Cut. Makes it look like a completely different film. And while I don't 100% agree with Snyder's interpretation of the characters, the over all flow of the film was my biggest gripe.

>>83443758
it's more like the login process requires zodd, not the rest of them


which given it's a central ai of a pseudo-organic machine, it's dumb, yes

>>83443758

He has Zod's Command Key.

You know, the movie ins't perfect but a lot of complaints are really stupid.

>>83438447

This graphic is so accurate it is scary.

>>83444358
Maybe if you're a retard who needs idiotic quips and lighthearted insubstantial sentimentality in your flicks.

Snyder's films are legitimately excellent, it's hilarious how he triggers many infantile comic book fans who view superheroes as pure wish fulfillment rather than deep fleshed out characters who deal with legit adversity and trauma.

>>83444308
Wait, where the hell was THAT established?

>>83444964

Man of Steel and then it showed up in BvS where Lex used it.

>>83443810
The issue isn't that he has files on the metahumans, that makes total sense. It's the placement of the scene in the movie and how the scene is handled that are jarring.

I don't get why fans of this movie just blame the audience for all of its flaws. Almost all of the scenes make sense in their own right, but they're either misguided or poorly placed in the movie. This reduces the impact they could have had if better implemented. Snyder is capable of creating compelling images, but he lacks the talent to string them together in a meaningful way.

People need to stop saying "audiences didn't get it! It's true cinema!" Believe me, audiences we able to figure out what Snyder was going for with the biblical stuff, they'd be stupid not to, it's just that the biblical aspects were hamfisted and poorly implemented.

In short, fuck off. Just because something isn't super hand-holdy doesn't make it good.

>>83445150
>>83445158
>>83445165
>>83445172
Nobody asked for this. This is like doing an in depth analysis of a Transformer's movie. You can dig for images as much as you want, but at the end of the day the movie is still shit.

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>>83445214

>>83445150
>>83445158
>>83445165
>>83445172
>>83445178
This is some of the best damn shitposting I've ever seen. Levels on levels. This is the real art.

>>83435687
I'm keen to watch this cut.

>>83444764
>Snyder's films are legitimately excellent, it's hilarious how he triggers many infantile comic book fans who view superheroes as pure wish fulfillment rather than deep fleshed out characters who deal with legit adversity and trauma.
Motherfucker, Snyder's films are literally ""Wish fulfillment: The movie" with a bunch of pretentious, cool sounding pop philosophy tacked on to try to justify their low-brow, Michael Bayesque origins. Strip MoS and BvS of all the extraneous, non bullshit non functional elements and you'd end up with a film about massively muscled, hypermasculine dudes gritting their teeth and kicking the shit out of each other. That's the only part of these films that actually feels real.

>>83445150
>>83445158
>>83445165
>>83445172
>>83445178
>>83445191
>>83445225
>>83445251
>>83445262
>tfw Zack Snyder created the most intelligent, nuanced, substantial comic book film ever made and fanboys hate him for it.

>>83445268
>Strip MoS and BvS of all the extraneous, non bullshit non functional elements
That's " extraneous, bullshit non functional elements." typo.

>>83445268
Holy fuck how could misunderstand the films that badly? The whole point is that Batman is in the wrong throughout the film and Superman (and Wonder Woman's critiques) compel him to do better.

The Passion of Space Jesus wasn't a bad movie, it wasn't a good one either. It just was. It was obviously missing something due to how it was cut though.

>>83445284
Bro he threw in high school level references to the most popular stories in all of Western canon, and they're all super blatant. That's not deep, it's lazy and cheap.

>>83445232
The excalibur references can't be more blatant, thought. So there is some truth to what is being posted.
>>83445214
BvS has many more themes than transformers and tries to do a lot with then. Thought it fails at doing so sometimes. Some people like analyzing movies, thought.

>>83445322
>super blatant yet not a single critic noticed any of them.

>>83445358
>And anon would provide example of which?

>>83445358
It is a piece by piece replication. Even Lois throwing the spear is similar. Critics don't have a reason to care about references, thought. If critics didn't notice them then it is moe likely they don't know much. And if they did, they don't have to take them in consideration.

Batman v Superman: An indictment of the media https://writheinflame.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/batman-v-superman-an-indictment-of-the-media/

>>83445358
God you people are persistant. It's not that critics didn't notice them, it's that there are so many gaping flaws in the movie that it's not even worth looking into. If this movie was as compelling as say, Eyes Wide Shut, then people might look deeper into the symbolism and be like, "OH! This aspect of the movie contextualized a bit better with this knowledge". Unfortunately because the movie is unwatchably awful nobody is going to bother to do a proper analysis.

>>83443091
m8 they released the director's cut of Green Lantern

it was the theatrical release

>>83445322

And yet /co/ loves when Grant Morrison does the same shit.

>>83445671
But Morrison is capable of implementing allusions to other works while still telling a coherent story.

You guys are so salty about this, god damn.

>>83445901

>while still telling a coherent story.

No. Take Final Crisis. When that shit was release even people defending the event had no fucking idea what it was about.

>>83445473
This. The movie is very bad. Only you retards insist on that shit. The rest of ther world has moved on.

>>83445931
Final Crisis wasn't universally beloved. It only remains relevent because of Hyper Crisis. I personally don't consider it to be amongst his best work, but when Morrison gets a decent head of steam his vision really does come together to create something memorable and special. I can't say the same for Snyder.

>>83441365

Like Jon Peters saying Superman flying around saving people was too 'faggy'.

>>83443894
>>83444308

Not even iPhones work like that.

>>83446069

The Multiversity was the same crap. Even now people fight among themselves to try and understand the point of the stories, what the enemies were about, what was the Empty Hand and so on, but /co/ eat that shit up.

>>83445312
No. They don't interact enough to compel each other to anything. The movie is a mess. Deal with it.

>>83445314
>It just was.

I'd say

IT WAS JUST

>>83435793
>Kingdom of Heaven

KoH's theatrical problems were similar to BvS's too.

>>83445268
>you'd end up with a film about massively muscled, hypermasculine dudes gritting their teeth and kicking the shit out of each other.
Like, uh...
You mean, like, uhh....
Like every super hero thing ever?

>>83441402
>The movie is coming out on dvd and blueray....

I'll pirate it.

>>83445268
Hello movie critic of /co/. I have been following your work. To whom must I speak to about signing up for your blog?

>>83443091
Well I stopped watching after hte first half because it was garbage, so I dont' know how much that'll help it.

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>>83441606
I'm glad i'm not Lex right now

>>83446426
People love to forget that TDK and other capefilms that are not just what you said exists in these discussions.

BvS is unexcusable. To make such a flat monotonous movie with the two greatest superheroes of all time is a new kind of lame.

>>83446768

>People love to forget that TDK and other capefilms that are not just what you said exists in these discussions.

But they are. All capeshit are about mainly dudes punching each other.

>>83435732
Kingdom of heaven and Blade runner take movies with great ideas but Poor execution (something ridley Scott has always had a problem with ) and turn them into legitimately amazing movies . I'm hoping the same thing happens to BvS since Snyder is somewhat similar to Ridley Scott in that regard. Watchmen directors cut was also considerably better than the theatrical version .

>>83446852
>All romantic movies are about people kissing each other
>All comedies are about people sliping in banana peels (sometimes metaphorically)
>All horror movies are about people dying

So on and so forth.

The lengths people go to defend this shit is amazing.

>>83446917

All those are right. Are you fucking retarded?

>>83446892
I don't think this movie can be saved by a DC. The core of the movie is completely rotten. Batman, Superman and Lex don't work at all.

>>83446962
How?

>>83446943
I'm just saying if you strip things down to a bare it'll look like that. Deadpool was a funny movie. TDK and Winter Soldier had great stories besides two dudes punching each other. BvS is crap compared to those movies. It has nothing but silly teen philosophies and weak imagery. It's a horrible movie.

>>83435687
why did they decided turning heat ray vision into super optic blast?

>>83447055

>BvS is crap compared to those movies. It has nothing but silly teen philosophies and weak imagery. It's a horrible movie.

That's your opinion and i disagree with it.

>>83446892
>Snyder is somewhat similar to Ridley Scott
eeewwwwww no

>>83446943
Why watch a movie then retard.
>movie has humans
>IT'S ALL THE SAME

>>83447009
By the 10000 reasons me and lots of other Anons have been talking about for the last months.

Jesus, do you just ignore criticism or are you blind?

>>83447123
Yeah, and Ridley is really hardworking for someone his age, he manages to make a big-budget movie almost every year. He puts more effort into his work pushing 80 than Snyder does at 50.

>>83447123
Way to cut off the last part of the sentence, you big baby.

>>83447204
lmao chill dude, I haven't been in /co/ for while.

>>83447204

>By the 10000 reasons me and lots of other Anons have been talking about for the last months.

Most of the reasons are fucking stupid, with people not getting things that were plainly there in the movie.

>all these warner bros shill in this thread
pathetic

>>83446943
>All those are right
I haven't a guy slipping on a banana peel since Keaton and Chaplin.

>>83447055

I honestly don't see why the Winter Soldier was so great. You could predict what was going to happen as soon as you watch it. The only thing different about it was "America is good but also evil lmao"

>>83437801
>>83437821
>Those of you who are fans, will dig it. If you hated it, you'll still hate it.

well yes, the ultimate cut solves some pacing issues and fills in some story holes but it doesn't change the overall "depressing" tone of the movie, which is one of the bigger reasons why people didn't like it.

>>83447111
I can't see this movie the way some people see it. When I saw it in the theaters I couldn't believe the shit I was watching.

>>83447276

>(sometimes metaphorically)

>>83447259
LOL I CAME HERE TO POST THE SAME THING

>>83447242
Ah ok then. Stick around and you'll know why.

>>83447277
So you were able to predict that S.H.I.E.L.D. was Hydra from the beginning?

>>83446892
Watchmen is still a bad movie though

>>83435732
Kingdom of heaven
Blade Runner
Watchmen
bin aff aleck's daredevil
the incredible hulk (unreleased but bootlegged)
every LOTOR movie
off the top of my head

>>83447298
What? You meant slapstick? Oh, sorry, I thought you were taking all of your posts seriously.

>>83447295

I'm not asking you to see the way i see it. I'm merely pointing out that i disagree with your opinion about the movie.

I also think that you're stripping or ignore the movie contents to it's barest form, while doing the opposite for the other ones that you mentioned.

>>83447333
I think Man of Steel was a heap of garbage but Watchmen clicked for me for some reason. I even enjoyed the theatrical cut.

>>83447258
>Most of the reasons are fucking stupid

I disagree. The movie's plot barely works. The characters are all retarded. Even the scenes are bad and bland.

Lots of people didn't like (and that's something!) even though you fags keep praising it as some kind of good movie. It's not.

>>83447335
The Lord of the Rings trilogy were still considered great before the director's cuts though.

>>83447331

It's hinted that SHIELD had been infiltrated by someone or some group since the beginning.

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>>83441789
>you were never a god, you were never even a man
>now god is good as dead

loved those moments.

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>>83447331
Should a twist like that impress me?

>>83447326
Thanks, but no thanks.

>>83447374

>The movie's plot barely works. The characters are all retarded. Even the scenes are bad and bland.

No, no and no.

>>83447277
All great stories can have their ends predicted from the start. We watch/read them because they captivate us. The rest is convoluted badly written garbage.

>>83447400
Well, did you know?

>>83447352
No. I'm not. How is saying that a movie is monotonous, with a title character that barely speaks and a villain with a plan that doesn't make the slight of sense is to ignore the movie's content?

>>83447434
Im not saying being predictable is bad, i just couldn't see what makes it do great

>>83447364
You can't take a work specifially designed to showcase the strengths of a medium and transpose it to another medium without coming out with an inherently inferior product.

And that's leaving aside the fundamental misunderstandings of the characters and message of the book

>>83435732
Alien 3 had two directors cuts (one which was called something else) that were massively superior to the theatrical.

>>83435732
Daredevil Director's cut is a legitimately good movie. The Watchmen Director's Cut was bretty gud too.

>>83447452
I didnt know Stan Lee was gonna be it it, that caught me off guard desu

>>83447421
Yes, yes and yes.

And a lot of people smarter than us have said that. Even Dave Gibbons said he didn't like the movie.

>>83447504
But he's all of them, silly.

>>83447421
Explain.

>>83447478
The fact that Hydra infiltrated Shield is not what makes the movie great. It's all the rest.

>>83447476

>and a villain with a plan that doesn't make the slight of sense

But it does, though.

>>83443126
>it's only shitposting if it disagrees with me!
>this is what shitposters actualy believe

>>83447604
>hypocrisy: the post

>>83447516

No, no and no.

>And a lot of people smarter than us have said that. Even Dave Gibbons said he didn't like the movie.

Critics nowadays are fucking dumb and Dave Gibbons isn't an authority.

>>83447546

First you explain why the plot barely works, why the characters are all retarded and how the scenes are bad and bland.

>>83447594
In your head maybe.

>>83447638
I'm a different guy, you explain first.

>>83447649

Yeah, my head works.

>>83447638
Excuse me but Dave Gibbons IS authority when it comes to superhero plots and scripts.

>>83447712

He isn't. He's not a film-maker and not even a good story-teller. He's an illustrator.

>>83447739
>someone hasn't read The Originals

>>83447638
I'll pop in with why the scenes are bad

The action scenes are muddy and murky, the non-action scenes are static, and there's a few nice storyboard panels thrown in to trick people into thinking it looks good

>>83447712
Stop this pointless bait.

>>83447712
So you agree with him that Watchmen was a great film and Zack Snyder understood the source material completely?

>>83447739
>Dave Gibbons
>not a good storyteller
I knew BvS white knights were delusional but holy fuck

>>83447739
Zack Snyder knows best, right?

There is nothing as idiotic Cap hiding sensitive SHIELD data in a fucking vending machine in Winter Soldier in BvS.

>>83447797
Yes. Specially in the DC.

>>83447765
>>83447801
>>83447813

He really isn't. Also: >>83447797, but i bet my ass virginity that you guys will disagree with glorious Gibbons about the Watchmen movie.

>>83441890
every single fucking time i see a bvs thread there is some retard who is always spouting off about the references and symbolism

when will it end? when will you stop?

>>83447712

You are excused. Dave Gibbons is an authority when it comes to scraping together the last shreds of one's dignity to make a final sacrifice to the Onamuputuku, the last god of the never-born fairies. But thats it.

>>83447850
>someone DEFINITELY hasn't read The Originals

>>83445358
Of course they noticed them. That doesn't make the movie good. "Wow, Supes is a Jesus/Aurthur figure, just like he was in MoS. 10/10, great job!" Give me a break. Actual adults aren't impressed by this crap, if anything those images being blatant makes it worse. It's just lazy, pandering shorthand for "He's a good guy" combined with obvious teasers for Darkseid for the fans who know who he is. The problem with you people is that high school mentality. You aren't praising the story or the characters, you're praising the "point" of the movie, and the "point" is just "Superman is a modern Jesus figure." That's not a compelling point, no matter how many pretty paintings Snyder's shots ape. There's nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from hoary old stories, but if you're going to do that you can't just throw SuperJesus on a mountain to talk to his dad, then have a spear, then have him get stabbed in the side and constantly laid out in a cross shape. Christ and Arthur's arcs are what make them compelling, not "They did this thing this one time." If you're making a story and all you care about is themes and images then you're not really writing a story, you're basically writing criticism. You can do both, but you need an arc, and believable people.

And if you don't believe they noticed all of Snyder's allusions, here's a random article: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-v-superman-ending-problem-878463

>>83445671
I mean yeah, Morrison does utilize a veritable grab bag of mythological allusions, but even then it's kind of hit or miss and what really gets people going is all those Hypercrisis metafictional elements. It's really that Morrison created his own internal mythology that he draws from. The density of it all is what makes it acceptable. That being said, he's not universally beloved, especially in comics like Final Crisis where he does little to no character work and just throws the concepts into every panel and speech bubble.

>>83447911

I did, it's nothing special.

>>83447972
>nothing special
Tell me how.

>>83447951

People didn't noticed the Arthurian references. They fucking didn't. Specially here at /co/ and /tv/. It was only when others pointed out that they went "Oh, yeah. I totally got it! But, like, it's just so blatant, my god! I'm not actually stupid!"

>>83448048
Dude, calm down. It's just a movie.

>>83447951
This. I can leave this thread now knowing that the point has been made. Thanks anon.

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>>83448048
>Jesus and Arthur imagery
>Movie is automatically good

No.

>>83445113
should have just been the wonder woman file shown and release cyborg, flash and aquaman on the internet

>>83448101

It's just tiresome this goddamn attitude.

First people bash the movie saying that there was nothing to it other than the Christian imagery.
Then when people point out that there are more references and imagery, their points are dismissed as head-canon or wishful thinking.
When the people pointing out the other references and imagery manage to bring proof with images and other contents, then the people were dismissive of it start to say that "Oh, yeah. I got that on first viewing. Shit was so blatant, brah".

>>83448166

I'm not talking about the quality of the movie, but the attitude in the discussions.

>>83447951

The article only points out the Christian imagery, which was very surface level.

>>83448245
Move on, sheeple. Life isn't about getting angry all the time.

>>83446426
That's not the point. Yes, every superhero movie is in essence guys punching each other. These are movies where guys punching is the only thing that feels real, because that's what it was made with in mind.

If you take, say, First Avenger, and boil it down you end up with the emotion of Steve Rogers, a kid from Brooklyn trying to do what's right. That's what resonates with people and the action and fighting is structured around that. In Snyder's movies that's all backwards. There the magnificent, gritty coolness of the main characters wailing at each other is brought to the forefront and everything else is structured around that.

First Avenger is in my opinion a dull and subpar film, but it gets the core right, it invests you in the plight of Steve Rogers and that's enough to carry you through. Snyder's movies have no core to them. There's nothing to grab on and make you invested because the stories of Batman and Superman are not what Snyder is interested in investing you in. He's interested in filming two dudes punching until they break.

And this isn't really a hard divide. Yes, all superhero movies are wish fulfillment to a certain degree. My point was to refute the idea that Mos and BvS were NOT wish fulfillment but instead stories with actual deep storytelling to them. They're not.

>>83448245
You're saying that people didn't get the imagery, but shucks to that: the movie is awful with those images in it or not. So what's your point here? That people didn't get some paralels that are fucking irrelevant for the enjoyment of the movie we were watching?

Don't get upset over a bad movie.

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>>83438340
>Just go to Washington and follow a Republican around and take notes.

I say it definitely depends on which Republican you follow around.

>>83448295
This. I just rewatched First Avenger yesterday and it really is a better put toghether movie than BvS.

>>83448295

>In Snyder's movies that's all backwards. There the magnificent, gritty coolness of the main characters wailing at each other is brought to the forefront and everything else is structured around that.

BvS is about masculine identity.
Characters basing their own identity through their fathers and dealing with how to navigate in the world as a man and feeling threaded by the existence of the male figures.

But you can ignore that if you want it, because you want to strip BvS of it's core to make your point.

what a great thread.

>>83448320

That people didn't get shit but say they did to safe face and that annoys me.

>>83448384
>BvS is about masculine identity.
So really, Bruce is a closeted homosexual?

>>83448048
Alright, let's say, for a moment, that no one got the Aurthur stuff because it was slightly more subtle. The question remains: who cares?

Is it more compelling that Batman stabbed the Kryptonite spear into the ground rather than simply having another Kryptonite weapon? Would it matter if Lois had thrown the spear down a dry well, rather than into water? How about the tenuous connection between Doomsday and Mordred, would it matter if instead he had been a bioweapon hidden on the ship? If I remove these specific elements, how are those story beats changed?

The answer is that they aren't. It's the same beats, but making them "Arthurian" merely provides a veneer of respectability, adding extra significance to events that, in the context of the film, either don't make sense or fall flat. Batman might is fighting Superman because of a misunderstanding engineered by Lex Luthor. Okay. But within the film, Superman is portrayed as a stoic and inscrutable god figure whose wrath sometimes makes him monstrous. I'm not super invested in this guy. Batman is a brutal executioner of justice, but even though I'm told it comes from a place of pain, it seems to come from a place of hatred. Lex is supposed to be a physically weak man of intellect who wishes to destroy Superman because of his confused relationship with his father and God. Okay, but I don't see that relationship, and he doesn't seem pained so much as deluded. Then it turns out he may in fact be corrupted by Anti-Life and Darkseid. Doomsday has no motivations whatsoever. He is a non-character. His part could be played by a dog with kryptonite teeth, or a robot.

Assigning each of these figures the occasional scene where they do something from another older, more respected story doesn't undo the actor's performances, nor the poor dialogue, nor the almost random events, nor the overly dark aesthetic which doesn't provide the "Night vs day" thing Lex has going on. It doesn't fix the actual movie.

>>83448384
Take your headcanon and leave.

Is there a release date for the Director's cut yet?

>>83448448

See >>83448245. Don't do this again.

>>83448414
People didn't 'get it' in the first place because it's irrelevant.

>>83448475
Yes, watch the trailer to the "Ultimate Cut" and see for yourself.

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>>83446138
It's rather clear what Multiversity is about anon. Its the death of imagination in Cape Comics in the wake of BIG EVENTS that sell murder and shock instead of adventure and discovery.

Final Crisis was Morrison trying to perform an exorcism of the edge and self-destructive death urge that gripped DC following Identity Crisis. It's not his best work, but Superman Beyond is one of the greatest Superman stories of all time and I like how the event resonated on multiple levels of reality, really neat.

>>83448484

Then be honest about the fact that they didn't get it instead of trying to safe face and saying that they did and that it was obvious.

>>83448504
I honestly hope you get cancer.

>>83448048
(Cont.) All it does is make things seem important in this story because they were important in another story. It's almost like cheating. Snyder et al can't make their precious point through their own skills, so they have to cobble something together and paint it with mythology to make it look good. Then, when people say "This movie isn't very good," they come in with "People didn't get it," which makes the weak-minded fanboys who think they are oh so very clever go through the movie with a fine-tooth comb looking for things people "missed" that will supposedly make it good, as if a few Easter eggs will save the whole mess.

>>83448476
I caught the Arthurian symbols as soon as the Waynes left Excalibur.

>>83448525
I forget the dates, sorry. I'm not going to watch the trailer and find the dates JUST for you, darling.

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>>83448443
This.

>>83448384
Other super hero films are about masculine identity and "living up to the legacy". See Iron Man and Cap. One struggles with the legacy of his parents and the other with the legacy of his country/the powers that be.

Super heroes have been about daddy/authority issues sense forever. Hell, Superman is all about MUH JOR EL and he was made in the thirties.

The trick is whether of not you explore these themes effectively. BvS did not. Civil War did.

>>83448516
1. Some people got it.

2. It's still irrelevant.

3. The movie is bad in spite of all this that you're saying.

>>83448384
That's defo a new one. So far I've heard that it's about Superman's social anxiety, Batman's PTSD and a host of other Tumblr-happy phrases, but masculine identity I haven't heard yet. Kudos.

>>83448421

Well, no, but i'll conceded to the fact that the movie is a bit gay, yes.

You've three frustrated guys feeling inadequate in the face of enormous obstacles that threaten their identity as men, both in general problems that they each face as well by the presence of one another, to the point where words don't seem enough to solve the issue, they'd rather subjugate their problems and one another with punches.

Just three guys going at each other like crazy to determine who's the boss of the gym.

so does Pa Kent really call it his hero cake?

>>83448443
The Arthurian stuff falls flat when you take into account that the stories have been about conflict among friends and allies. Its why Candle in the Wind was the thickest book of The Once and Future King.

For Bats to be Lancelot you need him to be actual friends with Super-Arthur or at least have it be so that you can see them smiling and getting along in each others company.

So not only is it sloppily blatant borrowing form Arthurian lore Snyder does so with no understanding of the stories at all.

>>83448597
Careful with those Marvel names. You'll end up triggering someone here.

>>83448682
Just like Watchmen!

>>83438514
> ave depth to comic Lex's one-dimensional hate for Superman

Are you kidding me?
the movie Lex Luthor had no motivations to his actions (maybe the ultimate cut changes that) and he was like any other generic disposable villain

>>83448654
So the whole movie could've just ended Yaoi style with a threesome between Lex, Clark and Bruce in a shower? It would certainly please the French.

>>83448597

>The trick is whether of not you explore these themes effectively. BvS did not. Civil War did.

I disagree completely. Civil War did very little exploration on that, while BvS did heavy exploration on it and in my opinion very well.

Captain America arc wasn't even about the legacy of his country.

>>83448245
More references and imagery doesn't make it good. It doesn't matter if every shot, line of dialogue, and character was based off of the Bible, Excalibur, Citizen Kane, Hieronymous Bosh, Flaubert, Faulkner, Mary Shelley, Wole Soyinka, and goddamn Road House. If your actors spend the whole movie scowling, twitching, and punching, if the lines sound bad and fall flat, if almost every shot is a cloudy day or at night, if you stuff in teaser trailers to other movies, and your plot jumps between two protagonists and an antagonist with ill-defined yet somehow still simplistic motivations, you have not made a good film.

>>83448736
>Captain America fought so heroes could do their thing and be their own (super) men.
>A man fighting for his right to do what he wants and protect people from foreign tyranny
>Not the legacy of America

Get out of here you communist!

>>83448808

America was never about anarchy or nepotism.

>>83448516
LOOK EVERYONE, ARTHURIAN IMAGERY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USUucZVnno0

TRULY THIS IS THE FINEST KINO

This is what you are anon. You're so desperate to have BvS have any emotion, art, or character that you're willing to make symbolism the hill you'll die on.

Well, go and die on it.

>>83448797
>It doesn't matter if every shot, line of dialogue, and character was based off of the Bible, Excalibur, Citizen Kane, Hieronymous Bosh, Flaubert, Faulkner, Mary Shelley, Wole Soyinka, and goddamn Road House
Don't forget Chekhov, Shakespeare, Shaw, Stoppard, Marlow, Murukami, Orwell, Keats, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, and Aristophanes

>>83448850
>America is not about fighting for your FREEDOM to do what you think is right.
>America is about listening to the UN.

Your red is showing.

>>83448855
>>83448797
>>83448682
>>83448606
>>83448544
>>83448443

Man, you all really got triggered, huh? All i said that this attempt to first dismiss a point and then say that you always knew about it to safe face was fucked up.

>>83448918
Defending this piece of shit is fucked up.

>>83448918
Jesus Christ it's save face

>>83448918
>get blown the fuck out
>"t-triggered you!"

man fuck off

>>83448736
It's about the legacy he has with the big military authority figures. He was given power by the US military. Then when he wakes up he has to deal with SHIELD having Hydra tech in their closet. Then he has to deal with SHIELD being Hydra. Then he has to deal with the government wanting him to register and be their bitch.

It's not the legacy of his country per se, but he's about "the powers that be" and his relationship with them. It's pure cape daddy issues

I thought Civil War did a better job of exploring legacies because for one the characters actually got to talk and emote things besides scowling disapproval and anger. Cap got to show that he's about the little guy regardless of what the powers that be say. He even gets inspired by Carter's funeral. Tony shows that he's driven to overcorrect things he feels responsible for-which has been a theme in every single one of his movies.

Look at how they're introduced. Cap is introduced leading his team and comforting Wanda. Tony is introduced giving a lecture to a mass audience and grieving over a kid he never knew existed. One is for the individual, one is for the group. One says "its okay we fucked up, we're trying", the other says "we fucked up and we need to do something drastic".

They're doing what they've always been doing. Grappling with the forces that gave them their powers in the first place.

The first few minutes of Civil War developed their characters better than BvS did in its entire run time.

>>83448918
Maybe you should give up, man. Face the music, you've lost.

>>83449005

I blame the cellphone.

>>83449014

How the fuck i got blown out? I'm not talking about the movie quality. I even point it out in my original post. I talked about the attitude where you guys act dismissive about subjects only to later act as if you all knew about it since the beginning.

>>83449048
Another great point that BvS-fags will completely ignore.

>>83448918
Anon, we knew about the Arthurian stuff.

You still haven't shown how >>83448682
is wrong about the imagery being inappropriate.

You still haven't shown how any of the imagery contributes to the character, themes, and story in a meaningful manner.

You've done nothing but lose and lose badly. Pleas go away before you embarrass yourself more.

>>83449087
Just fuck off, Anon.

You're defending a null point here. What do you want? People to apologise?

Look you can like BvS, thats totally fine. But if you think it was deep or hand any sort of significant artistic meaning then you're fucking high.

>>83448736
>while BvS did heavy exploration on it

What/where?

>>83448918
>It's an anon can't into reading comprehension episode

Saying "Well you didn't notice ALL the imagery" does not make the statement "The imagery is blatant" untrue. You're obviously really stupid but fancy yourself an intellectual, and now you're trying to save face by using your favorite word, "triggered" when in fact you're the one with a wet diaper because your beloved trainwreck of a movie got torn to shit on the internet.

>>83441402
they're still releasing it in theaters for a limited run
also to inflate they're boxoffice numbers

So why are people hyped for this? The movie was garbage and only the lamest of fanboys and fools actually thought it was good.

Why would a different cut make a damn difference? Same movie, same shit issues. If it just adds more then it will be the same shit scenes with maybe some good ones tacked on, and if it's cut down it's probably taking out the shit to replace it with more shit. I'm not even a DC vs Marvel fag, It's just a terrible movie.

>>83441890
yeah the thing about Clark being uncomfortable I believe this is correct also, I think the problem with the narrative is that Snyder expects everyone to understand his storytelling, but once you understand how autistic he is and how he just expects people to understand what he's putting out, it's a lot easier to pick up on

he's the Tite Kubo of the DCEU

>>83449087
>guys got dismissive about subjects
Because shallow symbolism deserves to be dismissed

>Act like you knew about it sense the beginning
I did at least. But symbolism or not its still retarded. It uses symbolism with all the skill and grace of >>83448855

I mean really, when Doomsday is your Mordred figure you've fucked yourself. Mordred was always supposed to be articulate and intellectual, and his genesis was supposed to be because of a major sin of Arthurs, be it him trying to kill him as a baby or having evil sex with his sister to spawn him.

If Snyder knew what the fuck he was doing he would have used Kon as the bad guy to make the symbolism resonate better. But he doesn't because as Watchmen proved he can't examine stories beyond a surface level.

>>83449216
Source?

>>83449087
"Alright I ate this pile of shit. Lots of corn in it. Didn't really make it better."

"You missed some corn. How can you say this shit didn't taste good?"

"Well it's all corn and it's still a pile of shit, so even now that you've pointed out that corn it's still pretty bad."

"Man, that's so disingenuous! It's really fucked up to pretend you ate the corn when you missed some of it."

"Fuck off buddy."

"Wow, okay, you're triggered. Didn't realize eating a pile of shit was such a big deal to you."

>>83442237
Will you please continue tails gets trolled

>>83449241
Remember when Snyder thought Bats shot a dude in the head in TDKR? I'm not sure he examines at a surface level. Or examines at all.

>>83449230
This is a damage control maneuver.

Can I just point out real quick that the idea of taking a guy like Superman, who is supposed to be a normal man with the powers of a god, and making him into an actual "God," capital-G figure whose motivations and methods are beyond the ken of mortals is really, really stupid?

>>83449048

Ignoring the fact that Captain America gained powers thanks to HYDRA, i get and concede to the things you pointed out.

But while Civil War might deal with the characters relationship with the institutions and their responsibilities, the movie really didn't dealt with the concept of self identity and masculinity, like i felt that BvS did.

>>83449173

Throughout the whole movie.

It's made clear throughout the movie that Superman, Batman and Lex Luthor base their self identities on their father's image or wishes. Each of them, to me, seemed to represent a man going through various point of maturity:

Lex Luthor as a teen rebelling against his father and authority figures.
Superman as a young man trying to navigate in the world and being overwhelmed by it's complexities.
Batman as a old man reflecting on his accomplishments or lack there of.

The movies shows the three of them feel threatened by the presence of one another, their self image and self worth challenged.

I can go on about this in a few minute or hours, i'm kinda busy right now.

>>83442506
>People here are actually debating the fucking movie

Which is pretty impressive. That's the one thing I like more about DC movies in general; people still talk about them for years. We still have Man of Steel threads that end in very heated discussion.

Nobody talks about Thor 2, or Hulk, or Iron Man 3 or Ant-Man, or even Age of Ultron. Even Deadpool discussion has all but dwindled. Civil War has come and gone but we're all still hear talking about BvS.

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>>83448918

Reminder that Cap storing sensitive SHIELD data in a fucking vending machine is one of the dumbest things in any comic book film ever but is completely forgiven by Marvel fans who want insubstantial childish crap.

>>83449490
>It's made clear throughout the movie that Superman, Batman and Lex Luthor base their self identities on their father's image or wishes. Each of them, to me, seemed to represent a man going through various point of maturity:
>
>Lex Luthor as a teen rebelling against his father and authority figures.
>Superman as a young man trying to navigate in the world and being overwhelmed by it's complexities.
>Batman as a old man reflecting on his accomplishments or lack there of.
>
>The movies shows the three of them feel threatened by the presence of one another, their self image and self worth challenged.

Did you watch the movie while being high because to me the whole movie was a mess unable to hold on to a plot

>>83449490
HYDRA wasn't involved in proto-SHIELD until after Zola's recruitment

>>83449492
People still talk about BvS because there stil faggots who defend this crap. It's not exactly a debate on how good it was. It's just some fanboys sperging out because some Anons didn't get that Superman was King Arthur AND Jesus.

>>83449543

Marvel movies in general are forgiven about a lot of things in general. Be it weird or new characterization, scenes that make no sense, bad cinematography and so on.

I wish DC fans were more like it. The Marvel bros are much more relaxed and sensible.

>>83449492
It's well-known /co/ doesn't talk about good things

>>83449490
>They all had daddy issues.

That's even worse than the fags who defend the Jesus imagery.

>>83449490
>Lex Luthor as a teen rebelling against his father and authority figures.

Luthor isn't a teen, though. He's an established businessman who apparently suffered some kind of trauma at the hands of his father and that colored his worldview.

>Superman as a young man trying to navigate in the world and being overwhelmed by it's complexities.

Okay but that has little to do with his father. His father's wishes are terribly ambiguous in both films, which, granted, is realistic, but it's hard to believe that no one in Clark's life would have strong feelings about him being Superman. Also it's kind of a bad storytelling choice to have him overwhelmed to the point of inaction and reticence, because it robs the character of any dynamism and looks flat on the screen.

>Batman as a old man reflecting on his accomplishments or lack there of.

Bats isn't really old, he's just older than Clark. He only seems old because of all the TDKR allusions. Definitely more interested in his mother than father, as well. Also if anything Alfred is worried about those accomplishments, I don't think Batman is capable of much more than tracking down bad guys and hitting things really, really hard.

>>83449492
I only participate in these discussions because I don't want there to be some sort of revisionist history where self righteous fools try to claim BvS was "KINO" or "Too complex for audiences".

Elitists shovelling shit into their mouths while claiming to have better taste than the common moviegoer annoys the fuck out of me.

>>83449492
I don't think the discussion would be happening at all if that one anon wasn't unironically trying to support the capekino meme. The consensus among non-idiots is that it's either abject horseshit or a fun dumb movie that has a couple cool comic book moments, which is really just a matter of taste.

>>83449680
>I don't want there to be some sort of revisionist history where self righteous fools try to claim BvS was "KINO" or "Too complex for audiences".
It legitimately was, though.

It's a lot like Only God Forgives and S2 of True Detective. Excellent works that were completely misunderstood.

Meanwhile the MCU stuff appeals to the lowest common denominator, even the biggest idiots on the planet can understand and enjoy them.

At the end of the day BvS left me wanting a movie starring Batflek and WonderGal. That's about it. Autistic Lex just annoyed me.

>>83449564

>Did you watch the movie while being high because to me the whole movie was a mess unable to hold on to a plot

I watched the movie sober. Can you point out what i got wrong?

>>83449636

Yes, they all have daddy issues, and also some mom issues, and they felt very inadequate as men. At least that's what i got from it.

>Okay but that has little to do with his father. His father's wishes are terribly ambiguous in both films, which, granted, is realistic, but it's hard to believe that no one in Clark's life would have strong feelings about him being Superman. Also it's kind of a bad storytelling choice to have him overwhelmed to the point of inaction and reticence, because it robs the character of any dynamism and looks flat on the screen.

The Kents were all about his freedom of choice with Jonathan dreaming up about his future accomplishments. Admittedly i didn't get much Clark talk in this movie about Jonathan wanting him to be Superman, but that's what is given to us in this movie so i'm working with it.

Now, about Clark actions, i think it was a very human and okay portrayal of a young guy feeling overwhelmed by the outside world and trying to run to a place of comfort, ie. his girlfriend, because that's the only place where things are simple, easier and good, while the outside world is complex, scary and hurtful. In the end when Lois and his mother become a target he understands that he can't ignore the outside world like he wanted, because that's where his loved ones, ie Lois and mum, lives also, and so does he. The outside world for better or worse is his world too. So he man up to his responsibilities.

>>83449680
Don't forget that those fags lie and make shit up all the time. And change their headcanon every day.

Up until now Superman is:

Horus
Jesus
Moses
&
King Arthur

And the story is really about:

The knights of the round table
The passion of the Christ
&
Daddy issues.

>>83449749
Only God Forgives was another version of Drive. Quiet story about brutal vigilante punishing the wicked. Threw in Gosling as a conflicted man of sin. Not bad but not a masterpiece, and not even close to being too deep to understand.

I dont know why people pretend this movie was fucking deep just to aggravate people. I would think it would get old after a while

>>83449749
>Only God Forgives
>True Detective Season 2

Oh you're one of those people who makes excuses for things he's excited for. I bet you think To The Wonder is Malick's best film too.

>>83449666
>>83449815

Continuing...

>Bats isn't really old, he's just older than Clark. He only seems old because of all the TDKR allusions. Definitely more interested in his mother than father, as well. Also if anything Alfred is worried about those accomplishments, I don't think Batman is capable of much more than tracking down bad guys and hitting things really, really hard.

Batman was old in relation to the other characters, or at least his arc was about an older man.

Now, while he was more interested about his mum, he still based himself on his father, that much is obvious in the movie. His father died fighting to protect his mum and him. Died a hero death and all that. Batman himself now was older than his father and he felt that he nothing to show for. He felt as if he failed his father. This much again is obvious even in the trailers.

>>83449730

So the only non-idiots are people that agree with you?

>>83449926
>To The Wonder
Well yeah, what else would it be?

jk it's Badlands, or The Line Red Line

Does anybody know if we'll be seeing Lois Lane's tits in the bath scene?