Why do people care about him so much? What does he have that

>>83287349
>He's such a boring character in tv show

Either you're baiting or completely retarded

>>83287349

He was THE Flash for almost twenty years and it was under his tenure that we got almost all the crazy-ass Speed Force bullshit that people associate with the Flash now (mostly thanks to Waid, and Morrison+Millar)

>"I'm going to shitpost and no one can stop me"

Thanks for the art of the new costume though, I hadn't seen that before. It really does look fine when not drawn by Booth.

You have to read his old stuff. He was The Flash for a very lone time.

>>83287395
I know, but I think this guy added the silver to the boots and it really looks better

>>83287349
I can legitimately guarantee you that everything you love about Barry in what you've consumed of him, especially in the tv show and the New 52, is borrowed from Wally West.

>>83287349
>He's such a boring character in tv show and rebirth
>in rebirth

get out faggot

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Why do we have to argue about flashes? Why can't we all agree Barry=Wally=Jay?

>>83287349
>What does he have that Barry doesn't have?
Twenty years of top-notch quality comics that defined almost everything about the Flash as we know him today.

>>83287839
That generally is how it goes. I feel like we only argued briefly, maybe 2012-14 or so.

I'm glad it's not like with GLs and Robins who seem to fight all the time.

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>>83287839

I can drink to that.

Shit, we're getting the classic JSA back even, so that means we're going to have the whole main Flash family too.

>>83287839
Because Barry < everyone.

I can respect people who like Jay the most. Barry's literally just a blander character who stole a bunch of shit from Wally to make him more interesting.

The only reason to like Barry more is because you read him first and think all of Wally's interesting dynamics were his.

>>83287839
This. I actually really enjoyed Bart's short Flash series too.

>>83287349
>in tv show and rebirth

Read Wally's book, Flash v2 #s 62-225.

Wally West made Barry Allen The Flash.

>>83287349
Wally has more personality than most of the people on the young justice tv show faggot. He's one of the best sidekicks ND titans in capeshit.

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>>83287874
I won't be happy until I get my waifu back. Though she was less fucked with than basically every other speedster.

>>83287934
>being a pleb who doesn't respect Baron and WML Wally

#1-225 if you care about character development and not just speed force hax

>>83287958

Well there IS a Legion book coming, so who knows what version of the team they'll go with.

>>83288051
I hope it's Lemire's cast, Retroboot + Reboot basically. They could fix Bart in the process too and just have him show up there.

>>83287878
FUCK you don't tell me why my opinion is my opinion motherfucker. I like Barry more despite reading Wally's shit first. Get this shit out of my face.

>>83288195
I mean, sure, you CAN like watered down oatmeal if you want. Go ahead. You just have terrible taste.

>>83288195
What do you like about Barry?

If your answer is "Dead mom" or "iconic" then you're a shitlord pleb

>>83288195
I bet your favorite Lantern is Hal, faggot

>>83287934
>Skipping directly to Waid
What a faggot

>being a characterfag about who has the mantle of The Flash
>dumb kids who are hating on Barry even though his run as the Flash revitalized DC
>dumb kids who've read a couple of (early) Silver Age Flash issues and ignored everything toward the latter half of the Silver and in the Bronze Age

Just read your stupid fucking comics and enjoy the fact that you have one of the only superheroes to handle legacy correctly.

Idiots.

>>83288807
There is literally nothing wrong with Hal

t. Wallyfag

>>83287349

Wally was the Flash for 20 years in the comic. A lot of people were introduced to the Flash with the Justice League cartoon and the Flash was Wally West. For the age demographic of /co/ Wally West IS the Flash

>>83288879
Barry's bronze age stories weren't good, either. Fuck half of them were the uttery, cringey mess that was The Death of Iris and The Trial of The Flash.

Barry's best work was as a science spokesperson with neat powers for 5 year olds to read. If that's the kind of hero you like (and it certainly revitalized DC!) then so be it.

also lol at "handle legacy correctly." You mean by doing a 50 year old rehash and putting the second guy back in front of the third and fourth?

>>83288911
Sorry, friend, for the age demographic of /co/ it's New 52/Flash Rebirth Barry.

>>83288963
Uhh no. I'm 25 and Wally was always the Flash to me.

>>83289031
/co/'s demographic, especially in the summer, is like 16-20, dude.

>>83289128
Pffft that would mean I spend all my time arguing with kids all day.
Oh...

>>83289128

19 and Wallyfag.

>>83288963
I'm 18 and Wally has always been THE Flash to me, even if DC loves pushing Barry every single opportunity they get.
That said, I like Barry too (but I prefer Jay), and we can all agree that Bart was pretty shitty.

>>83288941
>not liking Trail of The Flash

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>>83287349
>What does he have that Barry doesn't have?
A personality.

Literally anything worth a damn from Barry's comics since he came back were basically stolen from Wally runs.

>>83287839
Nah
Wally>Jay>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Barry

>>83287991
With the re-done origin story, that's just the best n most popular jump-in point. Sorry, man. Btw, I'm not the anon u were applying to.

>>83288963

26, and I'm more of a fan of Wally than Barry (although I really enjoyed his New 52 run).

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>>83287839
Man, Rebirth was filled with great moments. I love when Barry brings pizza to those people he saved.

>>83287374
This.

>>83291070
It was so good people aren't even talking about half of it. The Arthur and Mera scene was cute as fuck.

>>83287991
WML is pretty underrated in my opinion, but Baron is... ehhhh.

Even though he set up some plot points that WML followed up on pretty well (like Wally being dirt poor) I always found his dialogue and narration really stilted.

>>83291200
Agreed, anon, agreed. Though Ollie and Dinah made me a touch sad.

>>83287349
>What does he have that Barry doesn't have
Character development. A LOT. His growth during the 20+ years he was The Flash was something truly unique and rarely seen in superhero comics. He surpassed his predecessor as The Flash. He was The Flash that had the best runs written and like >>83287394 says, the one that had all the Speed Force bullshit people associate with the character

>>83291438

I found the most tragic part of Rebirth to be Johnny Thunder stuck in the nursing home.

He's an entire generations Flash. He's also the one sidekick who completely grew into his mentor's roll.

>>83291070
Dammit, Rebirth is actually looking good, and I try to make it a rule not to read events...

>>83291850
It's not really an event. Well you could say its like a mini-event that serves as a prelude to the Rebirth line. But it benefits of being a very personal story even though there are cosmic/multiversal stuff involved.

>>83291850
Lots of good stuff coming out of Rebirth like Ollie and Dinah meeting and appearing together in the new GA book

>>83291593
that was before they nerfed Dick.

>>83291593
>Who was Kyle Rayner?

>>83291978
>>83291992
I'm looking up some stuff now. The first issue just came out right? Can I just read Rebirth and nothing else? I ought to just look for a storytime

>>83292055
Yes. I think Rebirth has enough exposition to be new reader friendly. It is intentionally written like that, pretty much.

>>83292332
Cool, thanks anonski.

>>83292044
Kyle wasn't a sidekick and was only the solo GL for like 10 years. Wally lasted almost as long as Barry's tenure as the Flash (and part of me thinks that's why they kept trying to replace Wally those last couple of years, they didn't want him to pass Barry).

>>83291070
>Barry stealing other people's pizza

Literally worse than Spider-man.

>>83292055
I don't think you're understanding it.

There really isn't a Rebirth "event." The 80-page one-shot is the whole she-bang: it's the entire "event comic" series that would normally be 4-6 issues long and spread out over 2-3 months. Except, to reiterate, it's just one comic and that's it.

After that, you have the individual one-shots (titled "___: Rebirth", e.g. Batman: Rebirth, The Flash: Rebirth, and so on) that, as far as we can tell, just spinoff from the 80-pager and set up their series. In a word, they can be considered the 0th issues of their series. Also notable is that not every new series is getting a Rebirth one-shot.

To put it simply: Rebirth is a relaunch and uses the 80-page special as a bridge between it and mainline New52 series. After you read the 80-page special, you're through and can wait for the Rebirth one-shots (or, in other words, the 0th issues of these new series) like the rest of us.

One storytime is here: >>83155783

>>83292974
I actually just finished reading something that said this, but thanks a lot for summarizing it so concisely, anon. And for the link! I'm actually pretty excited about this right now. It feels like it's gonna be a return to form with new things in store.

Wally was one of the few comic book characters we got to watch grow up, started out as kid flash became real flash, one of the first big sidekicks to really take up his mentor's mantle

>>83287349
Putting aside the fact that he was most people's Flash, and is a great character. Part of the reason ts a wish fulfillment thing. Wally went from being a fanboy of the Flash, to his sidekick, to becoming THE Flash for twenty years. He was the realization of a lot of fan dreams.

Also, you're really basing your idea of him from a single issue where he's dying and distressed and a goddamn CW show where the characterization is miles away from the comics.

Go read some Wally comics, you tit.

>>83296025
What is CW Wally even like? I'm not watching shit to find out

>>83296920

He starts off as a jerk but he's gotten better.

>>83296992
Is he like New 52 Wally where they unfortunately introduce him as a street punk and then try to make him into Wally? I know their version of Barry is basically a Wally clone too which is kinda weird. Hoping Barry gets more of his own voice in Rebirth

>>83297138
Is he like New 52 Wally where they unfortunately introduce him as a street punk and then try to make him into Wally?

Pretty much, but by the end of S2 he is pretty close to where comics' Wally starts off.

>>83287349
>What does he have that Barry doesn't have?
A personality

>>83297322
to clarify, Barry is the Lee X-Men to Wally's Claremont X-Men.

Wally takes the Flash so much further than Barry did. Not to disrespect the classics, but he basically defined the character.

>>83297138
CW Barry is basically Peter Parker.

>>83296025
>>83296920
>>83297138
He's not even Pre-N52 Wally really. He was retconned into being his cousin in Rebirth.

>>83297465
Barry's Flash is pretty much definitory to the Silver Age, though. Those crazy-ass covers are legendary. He was THE wacky comic book bullshit science superhero of that age.

But I get what you mean. Barry was a simpler character for simpler times.

>>83287349

He was the first iteration of the Flash to a vocal minority of plebes and casuals, which is DC's target audience (they bow to tumblr nowadays). That's why we now have two Wallies, one of which is black, and neither of which really matter that much.

>>83297465
Silver Age Barry was written for children, he wasn't allowed to be too deep. The guy was a Mary Sue who told children to eat their veggies and get nice and strong.

As the audience grew up the character had no way to grow up with them, so they started throwing tragedy and shock at him. Killing Iris and Thawne, the trial etc. When that didn't work he was killed off. It's also why when they brought him back they ret conned his past to have tragedy, a desire to go back and fix things etc. They tried to retconn depth to a bland character.

Wally wasn't constrained by the 'for kids' tag so was allowed some depth. He was also massively unique in that he was the first big sidekick to graduate into the role, so we got to see how he dealt with legacy as well as managing to be the Flash and himself. He then was lucky enough to be written by one of the best Authors at developing characters, for years.

>HURR DURR IREY AND JAI COME BACK WHEN?!?!?!?!?!?! I NEED MUH DUMB FLASH SENPAI THAT ADDED NOTHING TO THE STORY OR MYTHOS

>>83297654
I don't know why they didn't find a way to make Barry work back then. He's not really different from Peter Parker in the sense that he's just a normal guy with a job that just happened to get superpowers. But I guess he didn't got the great writers.

>>83297799
Not only was Barry as the Flash perfect, but so was Barry the person. The mayor used to call him up and let him know how good he was, his parents loved him, Iris's family loved him, he was the top forensics guy and he even made a good impression on Wally (retconned now).

I think Peter Parker is flawed, even if Spiderman is powerful. Barry Allen and the flash were not flawed.

>>83297685
I want them back because they were cute when not written by Waid.

I'm digging the new design but I wish his hair was covered and the mask had the eye lenses

>>83298206
I wish the silver was gold

>>83298206
>I wish his hair was covered
I disagree so much.

Open cowl with red flowing hair is Wally's best look imo.

>>83287349
wally is awesome on the jla/jlu cartoon

Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if Wally hadn't replaced Barry as The Flash. He would have assumed a new identity a la Nightwing, I guess.

>>83297685
I don't want them back because they age Wally too much. Kinda like Batman and Damian.

>>83287349

>Not wanting more than one Flash.
What are you? Gay?

>>83298339
He's pretty much a merge of different aspects of three characters.

>Barry's backstory and job
>Wally's name and physical appearance
>Bart's personality

So was he Wally or Bart? Or Barry made better?

>>83298453
They could have called him Barry Allen and it would have been the same, really.

>>83298278

Maybe if the suit was a different color. The red hair on the red mask is too much

>>83298453
They did the same with Kyle and Tim.

>>83298513
I don't mind them tinkering colours, but open cowl is a must for me.

>>83298453
Bart and Wally have very similar personalities, it's a pretty significant plot point.

>>83298365
That's not really the same. They were physically infants just speed force aged.

I want to get into the Flash comics, which comic should I start with? Aside from Hellboy, I never read comics so I find the spin offs and reiterations and alternate universes confusion, so I'm hesitant on where to start.

>>83298623
You can read volume 2 #1-225 almost straight through. There's like one or two crossover issues and there's a could of shitty events like Millennium that you might have to skip though, and I think Impulse crosses over too during a couple of arcs. There's probably a torrent around.

>>83287878
I know you're shitposting, but I love pre-Crisis Flash comics and Barry's my favourite.

>>83298723
It crosses over with GL for a boring arc (easy skipped) and he gets tossed in the speed force in Zero Hour.

>>83298453

Except Wally and Iris admit Bart resembles a lot to Wally's childhood when he's first introduced. Also he's not too far off from pre-Waid Wally.

I'm pretty sure post-Crisis retconned Kid Flash's personality.

>>83298752
What do you like about Barry over Wally?

>>83287349
He is miles better than ghetto flash.

>>83299497
I like Barry's down-to-earth personality, and the fact that he became a police scientist and the Flash solely out of a desire to do good (this is before the dead-mom retcon, which made it into a drive to solve her murder and because he felt restless -- I'm not a fan of that retcon at all). I like his history as a comics geek. Basically I like him because he's a quiet decent guy who I admire. I'm fond of Jay for the same reason.

Wally's fine, I don't hate him or anything, but he's a bit of a jerk sometimes (and during some eras a lot of a jerk) and that often rubs me the wrong way. I'm aware he's more dynamic than Barry is, but if they were real people I'd like Barry's company more and that influences which Flash I prefer.

>>83300243
>I like his history as a comics geek.

Has that ever been used since he came back to life?
Barry used to occasional come to Earth Prime to harass the DC offices, and named himself after Jay because Jay was a comic book character.

>>83287878
>Barry's literally just a blander character who stole a bunch of shit from Wally to make him more interesting.

What the hell are you even talking about?!

You don't know that Barry Allen was The Flash before Wally West, Wally West literally beginning his Flash career as Kid Flash? And he got his powers in the same place as Barry and in the same way?

Like, I mean if you prefer Wally over Barry that's cool, but you're not making sense anon.

>>83301784
It was shown in Flash: Rebirth a bit, at least in the flashbacks when he was a kid. But hasn't been referenced at all since the New 52 began.

>>83288374

Honestly?

Barry sacrificed himself to save existence during Crisis. Wally ain't done that. Plus I feel Barry has more pathos than Wally, and Iris is cuter than Linda.

And Barry's return on Final Crisis was just... It was so fucking good!

>based Morrison
>LET THERE BE LIGHTNING

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>>83302768
>Iris is cuter than Linda.

take it back

>>83296920

He starts of seeming really fucking cringey and terrible but he gets his life saved by The Flash and realises he wants to be a hero and become a Flash fanboy.

Which is cool because Wally was introduced as idolising the Flash in the comics; they just went there in a real round about way.

IMO it would have been cooler if he was Joe's son but was Iris's brother (half brother) but Joe still treating him like the son he never had.

Also, when they reveal that Iris is actually from the 30th century it'll be an interesting point because then Joe wouldn't have had any biological kids but three adopted ones.

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>>83302854

Nope!

But I totally get it. When I was reading Rebirth I really got why people missed Wally, but I've always been more of a Barry fan cause he sacrificed himself to save everyone. And he wasn't back within a year and when he did come back in Final Crisis it was dope!

>>83287892
The half with Griffin Grey sucked. It was slightly recovering when they killed him off.

>>83302645
Yes, I know that Barry Allen was The Flash before Wally West.

Wally West emulating Barry as his successor is appropriate to theme. Wally is Barry's legacy. Wally SHOULD be the one who adapts things from Barry. Just like Barry SHOULD be the one who adapts things from Jay -- which he did, which I do not begrudge. Both Barry and Wally came up with new things their successors didn't have beyond emulating them.

But bringing back Barry because he's the "best," most iconic Flash then about facing and stripping things from Wally's run as if Barry's the legacy character is a joke. Barry is not Wally's successor character. You don't bring Barry back, realize he's not working, then go "okay let's stitch some Wally West shit onto him, people like Wally West," and then say how great Barry is.

If Bart was the one who pulled stuff from Wally's run and adapted and expanded on them it'd make sense. Backtracking Barry's tenure not so much.

The only thing Barry Allen has going for him is a name and a simpler origin.

>>83287892
>>83303795
Bart's run was severely limited by a slow, weak initial arc followed up by Guggenheim being given 7 issues to set him up to die in.

Had it started stronger, there's a solid chance he could have stuck as the Flash, at least for a while.

>>83302768
Well Wally's return blew Barry's out of the water if we're pulling that card.

Linda is Iris but better in every possible way. She's an actually developed character whereas Iris, even in modern times, is sorely lacking in that department.

If you think Barry has more Pathos than Wally then you didn't read Born to Run or The Return of Barry Allen. Or Blitz. Wally dealt with shitty, pitiable stuff plenty. And it was all better written.

Having a dead mom doesn't change that. Black Wally wasn't a better character because his mom was dead, too.

>>83297465
You can tell by just how much Wally stuff they adapt to Barry in the show for the larger audience. They keep Barry's dead mom sob story but a whole lot of the cool, interesting Flash shit is lifted from Wally's run.

>>83297654
To be fair, Waid also wrote a good bit of Barry during his early days on The Flash. His Brave and The Bold series and JLA Year One has a LOT of Barry Allen in it.

He's a fine character but...Waid sticks to his roots to keep him pretty milquetoast. Waid writes him like he would your uncool but reliable dad.

>>83298453
Bart was not a skirt chaser or the heart and soul of anything.

He's more WML/Baron Wally than anything.

>>83304109

Didn't mention Black Wally.

The Pathos for Barry comes from Crisis and then his outstanding return in Final Crisis.

I will admit Wally's return in Rebirth is pretty cool too, but those words: LET THERE BE LIGHTNING with Barry's return are just too perfect in my opinion at least.

And what I like about Iris is that she's Barry's girlfriend before he became the Flash. She fell in love with Barry she didn't fall in love with The Flash.

I like that she's in love with this kind of clumsy dude who is always late to everything; it makes her feel more human in a way.

I dunno, I just like Barry and Iris.

Though I'm not shitting on Wally or saying Barry is better than Wally. I just like Barry more.

And the big reason I like Barry more is Crisis.

>>83304177
He had Bart's sense of humor for sure. Comics Wally's humor was darker to me.

>>83287991
should probably quit when Johns starts

>>83304679
Old Johns was actually good though.

>>83304177
cuz Bart was gay for Tim/Kon

>>83304201

There is literally no Pathos in crisis. That moment made him the least pitiable person ever. Any story told about him after Crisis treated him as a saint. He was the perfect hero because of what he did. I don't see the pathos in his return in final crisis either. Are you sure you know what Pathos is? I mean, the Crisis moment by itself certainly had Pathos to it but we're talking about character traits and qualities. His sacrifice and return was met with nothing but admiration and love since.

I think you're missing out on Linda and Wally. With Wally there WAS no difference in The Flash and Wally. Linda married Wally moreso than Iris married Barry -- Iris married only half the man she knew, given his lies. Linda married Wally in his entirety despite the risk involved. She's also, you know, just a better character of her own merits -- she was a well developed character before her and Wally ever started flirting.

As far as crisis I'm pretty sure each Flash has pulled a "die saving people" stunt at some point in the career. I suppose if you're a stickler for scale then Barry wins out but Wally's saved the multiverse his fair share of times, too. He even got put in a position where he had to try to recreate Barry's Crisis sacrifice and went through with it (complications made him incapable of it, mind you).

>>83304679
Nah, Johns' original Flash run was actually pretty good. It's only after he starts writing Titans that everything starts desperately trying to be the 60s, but with more gore.

>>83304868

You're correct. When speaking about his return pathos is not the correct term to use. It is for his sacrifice in Crisis though.

His return in Final Crisis was just epic.

The difference with Iris and Linda and their relationships to Barry and Wally is that Linda didn't know Wally before he got struck by lightning. Iris was going out with Barry when he got struck by lightning.

So Jay is totally gonna get his powers back during the speedforce storm then slowly start remembering right?

Wally became boring when he had his whole family business. I couldn't stand his children and I was bored by his "LINDAAAA" every issue
He used to be my favorite Pre Flashpoint Flash but I prefer New 52 Allen