oh man Alan Moore is gonna be maaaad

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>>83143439

>>83143439
>Moore
>not mad
I'm sure he even dreams angry dreams.

>>83143439
Fuck Moore. I can't wait for my Blue Beetle and Nite-Owl team-up.

last time he was asked about DC fucking up with his work (when Before Watchmen came out) he basically went "ain't even mad, when I hear about it I just shake my head and go about my day"

>>83143439
Marvel Girl? What are you doing in the DCU?

>>83143700
At this point he's got it better than the rest of us.

"I'm so over Watchmen, we should all be over Watchmen, now I'm going to do a comic about how over Watchmen I am!" is unbelievably pathetic.

MOORE'S GONNA FREAK

>>83143439
so is Dr. M gone nuts and wants to take over the DC universe or what?

>>83143721
>Jon
>you're gay
And that's how Multiverse got destroyed.

>>83143784
Basically there's no way for this comic to work without rolling Dr. Manhattan's character back and making him shitty and less interesting.

So does anyone else die in Rebirth?

>>83143447
>>83143439
pff, in before he undoes it to prove a point. To both.

>>83143824
We haven't seen him do anything, and let's not forget that he was the victim of an elaborate frame-up in the original story.

>>83143824
he was never interesting

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>>83143784
I thought it was implying that Dr Manhattan created the DC universe. At then end of Watchmen, he says that he will leave Earth and create life himself. Also, whenever DC have shown the beginning of the universe, they've depicted a large God-like hand.

>>83143874
No the rest of the new 52s climax deaths are in justice league mostly

>>83143940
Nah. They're going to have him be responsible for the New 52, is all.

>>83143940
But the hand wasent blue in rebirth

she died as she lived, with nobody caring

>>83143978
But I thought Flash was responsible for The New 52 when he altered the timeline

>>83143984
Might have just been the lighting in the artwork. I still think it's an interesting theory. In fact, I'm surprised no one's thought of it before.

>>83143952
Yeah, that's pretty awful, then.
One of the few original female characters in the New 52 is offed in a comic that's all about respecting newer characters as well as older ones, and people are more interested in who killed her than the fact that she was murdered.

>>83143896
>in b4 he undoes it.
He can't. He could restore their bodies but not resurrect them.
>>83093075

>>83144071
No, they have Wally go "It's not your fault!" to him in Rebirth. And then blame Dr. Manhattan.

>>83144216
Maybe the DC is just one big experiment for Dr Manhattan. Every time he's unsatisfied with the results, he restarts the universe.

>>83143439
He's always mad. I don't think this will change anything except maybe make him go "I told you everything was shit!" a few more times.

>>83143504
Bruce v Adrian: Preptime-Off when?

>>83144214
>thinking geoff johns won't have manhattan have his power enhanced for some stupid shit

>>83143748
Fucking this. This undermines its own objective just by existing.

>>83144146
There were no real other deaths.

The Power Ring girl dies, but is resurrected by Green Lantern rings.

Crime Syndicate Superwoman dies, as does Owlman, but their entire universe was already destroyed, they'll be back when there's a 'new' crime syndicate universe.

Also Grail's mom, if anyone gave a shit about that.

>>83144419
And Metron

>>83144214
if you put all the molecule literally at the same place you resurect them. Maybe a little shocked since the electrical flux in the brain is likely to change but memory and personality only lies in neuron arrangement

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>>83144455
>thinking metron's dead
This is the second time Johns had him killed and it never stopped him before.

>>83144419
I've seen movies where they don't even say the mother died offscreen, she's just nonexistent. I don't know whether to be impressed that Grail's mother was an actual character at all or disappointed that she dies.

>>83144501
I'm not sure that Manhattan said he couldn't resurrect the dead so much as that a person's death does not upset him.
He did also express an interest in creating life at the end of the story, and I don't see why he would want to if he didn't think he could.
And I'd be surprised if he can create life but not revive the dead.

>>83144555
It was a pretty nice heroric sacrifice

>>83144680
he could do it with the help of someone else. He create a body, then someone mystic call the soul back. DC did worse. He's clearly not the "no interest in anything" character he was supposed to be there.

>>83144071
>But I thought Flash was responsible for The New 52 when he altered the timeline
Flash fixed it. Dr Manhattan is the reason the timeline turned into the New52 instead of just reverting back to how it was

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>>83144776
I get you. So the part in the middle where the Flash stops in pain is when Dr Manhattan intervenes?

>>83144857
>Wildstorm Universe

Give it back.

>>83144775
Dr. Manhattan changes over the course of the original story. He starts out bored and confused by regular people, and ends up deciding that they're all "thermodynamic miracles."

>>83144857
That's what I'm wondering. As soon as I read Dr Manhattan was involved, I thought of the comic literally showing us what happened

The Dr Manhattan thing only works if you go by movie instead, where it leaves that scene out.

>Manhattan killing people randomly for no reason
holy shit
he killed Rorshach cause he wanted Manhattan to kill him

>>83144857
someone really needs to whip up a hypercrisis macro showcasing all the stuff like that now that we know what to look for

i'd do it but i'm a filthy casual

>>83145210
Pandora is pretty clearly threatening to expose a secret he's trying to keep.
Which is the same reason Manhattan killed Rorschach. Rorschach asked him to, but only because he would rather die than be complicit in the conspiracy.

>>83145210
>no reason
whatever he's doing, he needs to remain the man behind the curtain. he's only killing people who discover who he is and what he did.

>>83143439
Johns seems to be angry at the fans and using watchmen as a punching bag for it, that's the only thing I can think of that makes sense as to why this is happening since he's just as guilty when it comes to violent mean spirited shit.

>>83144775
He could do it by time manipulation which seems to be a big power of his here since it's used to explain the reboot. Just steal time from the dead body and then it'd return to a point where it was alive.

>>83143773
This boy's up to something

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cool so this is canon now
that only took, what... about 8 years?

>>83145210
This whole plots retarded but it's clear he is killing people who know to much

I thought Watchmen was just a comic on Earth-1. Did that never happen now, or...

>>83145726
Also, Action Comics #1 and Superman are mentioned in Watchmen

as someone who doesn't read DC at all what is this with Dr Manhatten? What's OPs image? What the fuck is going on?

I don't understand, why is the fact he created a universe (or more) worth killing people over? He just gave billions life

>>83144965
More like each person is their own special snowflake created from their own unique circumstances/confluence of mathematical probabilities.

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>>83145788
Basically we learn what happened to Dr. Manhattan after the end of Watchmen (he came to the DCU) and is responsible for the Nu52 post-FP.

>>83145788
Very strong hints that Dr. Manhattan is imvolved. His dialogue is quoted, Watchmen's 3x3 panel structure is used, especially for scenes of watch imagery, which is especially relevant to Dr. Manhattan as he was trained to be a watchmaker as a boy, and this was made to symbolize his later destiny as an all-powerful being.
And Pandora's death looks a lot like when Dr. Manhattan killed Rorschach.

>>83143439
Alan Moore doesn't give a fuck

>>83145916
>>83145965
wow, hope it doesn't turn into a clusterfuck. seems interesting though.

>>83144857
>the flashpoint made the universe stronger
After everyone admitted new62 was a mistake
>the flashpoint actually made the universe weaker

I wonder why they choose Dr. Manhattan?
Is it to retain the rights of Watchmen and at the same time use shock value to increase temporarily the sales? Also use this excuse to partially undo New 52?

>>83145788
Watchmen is a comic miniseries written by Alan Moore in the 80s and is one of the first gritty deconstructions of the superhero genre. It's set outside the main DC universe in a grounded in a more realistic world. The only character with powers is Dr Manhattan who has total control over all matter so he can pretty much do anything. At the end of the comic, He leaves Earth to "create life" and disappears.

Flash forward to 2011 where DC rebooted all their comics with a series called Flashpoint. In the series, Flash runs back in time to stop his mother from being murdered. He fucks up the time-stream so he goes back and fixes things again, but when he runs back to present something causes everything to be slightly different (hence the changes in the New 52). One of the characters who pretty much got erased by the New 52 was Wally West. An original character they introduced with the New 52 was Pandora (the woman in OP's pic).

In DC Rebirth #1, it's revealed that Wally West/Kid Flash is trapped in the speed force with memories of pre-new 52 DC. He makes reference to a strange all-powerful being controlling and manipulating events. At the end of the issue, he's freed from the speed force by Barry and warns of this being which he believes caused the New 52. We then see Mars and a watch there begins to reassemble itself as dialogue from the end of Watchmen appears in narration boxes with the implication being that it is Dr Manhattan who caused the New 52 and killed Pandora.

All this does is prove Moore right. Mainstream American comics are so creatively bankrupt, they need to reference a decades old comic, and in their big "Stuff Will Change For Real This Time #1" event no less?

Moore was right, this is truly the darkest timeline.

>>83143439
...Did the artist draw this like the movie version rather than the comic one?

>>83144893
This
Bring back Wildstorm!

>>83146097
Depending on who you listen to, either it's Johns taking a piss at Zack Snyder for everything in the DCEU, or he's using the Watchmen character as an antagionist to represent people who missed the point of Watchmen.

>>83146188
They should bring it back but separate from the main DC universe, the two properties don't work well together.

he didn't kill neither rorshark nor Pandora he just transformed them into Jokers because Joker is his perfect agent of Chaos.
double mystery closed.

>>83146215
Agree.
The Wildstorm characters with the exception of Midnighter became very reduntant in the DC universe.

>>83146111
That's auctualy a really good recap

>>83143439

Has there been any good porn of her?

>>83145276
I think you guys are taking the hypercrisis stuff a little too far. Maybe you can prove everything counts when we're talking about a Morrison book, but when it comes to Johns he doesn't really gives a fuck about what's canon and what's not, when he doesn't likes something he simply retcons it.

We all expected the old version of Parallax to be a crazy Hal Jordan but nope, he is still posesed by the bug.

>>83146111
>Flash forward
No pun intended

>>83146192

>do a sendup of the people who missed the point of watchmen by blatantly missing the point of watchmen

Who took the decision to reboot after Flashpoint?
I read flashpoint was just an event without major consequences on the continuity.
This is more like DC Retcon.

>>83146518
They wanted to reboot with Final Crisis but Levitz said no

When Levitz left and Nelson came in, she pushed for it so DC could get a sales boost

>>83146192
And again if he wanted to represent the writers who missed the point of watchmen why dident he use somebody from outside both universes

>>83143439

I guess they decided she was a mistake in the first place.

When this is over, I'm going to laugh at everyone who had hope that DC was going to use Rebirth to right the ship.

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>Manhattan has gone from detached, aloof God to being stereotypical supervillain.

Hell, I didn't even like Watchmen that much, but I can still recognize that using them like this completely misses the point of the original work.

This whole angle seems really misaimed. Honestly, it would have been fine to use convergence as the only explanation for why Rebirth happens. We didn't need this extraneous shit piled on top.

Let's hope his magic goes into overdrive and rebirth crashes with no survivors. Except for Tom King.

>>83147002
>>Manhattan has gone from detached, aloof God to being stereotypical supervillain.

I don't see it that way. Manhattan screwing up the timeline after Flashpoint could have been done without malice.

Pandora, Metron and Owlman kick the bucket because they know too much and can ruin his experiment.

I don't see that as moustache-twirling character. Of course, that's my interpretation, i could be wrong

>>83147151
He's basically High Evolutionary tier now.

>no one can disturb muh experiment

>>83146888
Everyone thought it was going to undo nu52

Suprise its just a event.

>>83146111
Have a screencap of Dr. Manhattan's narration on Mars?

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>>83147250

>>83146111
The thing that makes me most mad is that I always thought Manhattan's line about creating life meant he was the one who made the universe.

>>83147239
Nu52 is revealed as old post-crisis universe ten years in the future and not really a reboot. It was absolutely a bullet to the Nu52 while still maintaining parts of the present status quo.

>>83145916
i guess this finally solves the debate in who wins between Manhattan and Superman
the fucker made himself canon and rebooted the entire universe
and somehow he cant cure cancer

>>83147405
What makes you think he didn't create several?

>>83147410

But it's STILL the nu52 universe, though. They're just pulling old stuff back in, they're not erasing the things that we already didn't like.

>>83147002
Dude, they haven't even showed him yet, let alone hint at his intention. Chill.

>>83147315
>it's counting down

You had one job Manhattan

>>83143748
This is everything that needs to be said about the subject and why it's a bad idea. Just repost these exact words. Now back to our regularly scheduled company wars and superfluous continuity arguments.

>>83143439
shit did he kill zealot?

>>83147514
they are hard retconning some things like WW being in her 20s

>>83143874
Pandora

>>83147887
Thats still fucking stupid.

>>83147315
>>83147315
And they already fucked up.
Th doomsday clock (which was a resl thing btw) counts up to midnight as shit hits the fan.
But as if the cereal killer knows. ...

>>83144348
>"Oh Bruce I did it thirty five minutes ago."
>"Good cause I started my counter plan 46 minutes ago."

>>83147630
>>83148866
The clock is going to be counting up to midnight, but it had to be set first.

It's 15 minutes to midnight.

Also, remember that the real doomsday clock goes in both directions.

>>83143439
MOORE'S GONNA FREAK!

>>83143447
why is semen coming out of his eyes

>Captain America is a secret nazi
>Dr. Manhattan is the big bad of the new DC universe

What are comics even doing holy shit

Who fucking cares? At least something interesting is happening for once. I better have this than Darkseid or some other shitty villain to get jobbed out for the millionth time.

And stop pretending that Watchman is some holy grail of comic books. Other universes get merged in the big two all the time.

>>83144146
It's because Pandora was always a shitty nothing character, and she's been languishing in obscurity for the past year or two anyway.

>>83143874
Marvel releases this week

>>83146332
The trouble was picked out before the New52 even began. If you have two organisations with great power and very different philosophies (the Justice League and the Authority) sooner or later they're going to come into conflict, and it's almost impossible to resolve that conflict without one side looking like ineffectual morons.

>>83148866
it's at 52 minutes

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>>83144419
>The Power Ring girl dies, but is resurrected by Green Lantern rings
Reading comprehension level america

>>83149440
It's at 45 minutes.
It started at 52 mintues

>>83146131
It doesn't help that they've got another sequel to Dark Knight Returns going at the moment

>>83149507
Symbolic of the DC universe going back to pre-New 52

>>83149055
It goes in both directions but I am pretty sure that from a dramatic standpoint a higher threat level is the way it should be with all the teased plot threads.

>>83149242
>And stop pretending that Watchman is some holy grail of comic books. Other universes get merged in the big two all the time.

Go fuck yourself. This shows a lack of respect for and a fundamental misunderstanding of what is one of the most influential and important works in the medium.

This is literally - and not the Internet version of literally where you're exaggerating for dramatic effect, the actual dictionary definition of literally where I mean "without hyperbole" - LITERALLY the equivalent of a movie studio buying the rights of Citizen Kane and then making a movie where Joseph Cotten investigates some X-Files illuminati conspiracy bullshit. This is a travesty.

>>83149507
It should be at 48 since that is the time as of Watchmen #1.

>>83149412
Seeing the Authority fight the Justice League would have been fun though.
Then all the Wildstorm characters leave forever back to their own earth.

>>83149754
The movie analogy happens all the time too. Even if this whole crossover is shit, it won't change the original work. Just because the prequels of SW sucked it didn't make the original trilogy bad as well.

Doesn't it kind of ruin the core of Watchmen about superheroes existing in the real world and how fucked up it would be, when you just handwave it as some silly "alternate universe" (which might as well mean the same thing as "creatively bankrupt") which Manhatten leaves behind. Wouldn't this mean that Silk Spectre was totally wrong in saying that life is sacred and precious, when theres infinite alternate universes with the exact same amount of "precious and sacred" people?

I say all this as someone with 0 investment in the current DCU

>>83150137
To be fair, I'm actually impressed that DC have held back this long at officially canonise Watchmen as part of the DC multiverse

>>83148922
Bitches. Both of them bitches. Aeolia Schenberg already defeated them two hundred years ago.

>>83144419
>The Power Ring girl dies, but is resurrected by Green Lantern rings.
They literally say "The Black Racer killed Volthoom"

>>83147002
>Manhattan has gone from detached, aloof God to being stereotypical supervillain.

>Hell, I didn't even like Watchmen that much, but I can still recognize that using them like this completely misses the point of the original work.

>This whole angle seems really misaimed. Honestly, it would have been fine to use convergence as the only explanation for why Rebirth happens. We didn't need this extraneous shit piled on top.

I think the only motivation that Manhattan would have is to create things as an observer, ironically as a clockmaker God.

If anything, I don't think that Manhattan is the player here. He's the instrument. Wally keeps referring to a "they" throughout the book. Not to get all Morrison-Hypercrisis-y but when you look at concepts of meta-villains like the Gentry or something like that, the case can be made for Manhattan and Watchmen only being used as a tool because they exist within the meta-narrative of DC Comics and the multiverse.

Thinking Manhattan is the bad guy here is extremely short-sighted.

He is always mad.

In fact, this might give him a moment of brief happiness in which he can exclaim "HAHA, I told you I was right! See?!!" and then go back to his eternal butthurt.

I'm just completely shocked the they're so out of ideas that they're trying to tie in Watchmen of all things to a completely-straight universe. That seems like desparation or "they're opposites so they mix well!" wankery at best.

>>83153121
No, he really doesn't give a fuck but everybody keeps bringing this shit up in his face

>>83145315
He has no reason to cover up his deeds.

After all he knows that nothing ends, including the stuff he manipulates. Its only natural for the truth to resurface and Manhattan goes against his own character and nature to try to keep it secret.

If anything he should see it as "oh well it was nice while it lasted" time to fuck off and leave the people alone.

>>83146192
Oh right the point of Watchmen was "superhero status quo and campy stories for manchildren are great! Keep them coming!".

Oh wait, it wasn't. If he is so fixated into showing people the point of watchmen then he should start by canceling all superhero books.

>>83153121
>go back to his eternal butthurt
More like in-lightened depression.

>DC is finally doing something interesting with beloved characters people have been hoping for years would return in some form or another
>muh nihilism don't ever ever touch watchmen it's above all your common pleb tastes 2deep

Are all Watchmenfags such joyless faggots?

>>83153526
Kill yourself /co/mblr

>>83153526
No. I am a huge fan of the original comic, and I have not been this hyped for a DC book in a long, long time.

My only fear is that it will take them two fucking years to follow up on any of this shit.

>>83153526
Thats not the point. The point is that it seems extremely out of character for Manhattan to have such strong feelings toward a little shitty experiment going as far as killing people so he can play a little longer, specially when he knows that nothing ever ends.

>inb4 he killed Rorschach
He wanted to be killed.

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>>83143439
>I'm going to take a character from a story specifically written to de-construct the superhero genre, that was written to put these types of characters in a realistic real world setting, and put him in the larger than life DC universe.

Jesus fuck, the entire point of Doc Manhattan in Watchmen was as a statement on how the world would react to a literal super being. As a Cold War fear made flesh. How the fuck does the entire reason for his character existing work when Superman and the Martian Manhunter and the fucking Green Lanters exist?

For the characters of that story to work, they NEED the world in which they were written in. "What would superheroic vigilantes be like if they existed in a dystopian, yet real world 1980's?" is the entire fucking conceit of the book and the characters in it.

I'm not even mad, I'm astounded at how blatently DC are mining the bedrock of ideas now.

>>83153526
Watchmen was fine as a standalone piece. BW even proved that. No reason to try and stretch it out.

can someone explain to me how dc screwed moore over? i know the basic set up was that they promised him the rights back once watchmen went out of print, but like... it seems like a standard contract? honestly, i don't know what else moore expected would happen.

>>83153600
Weird, it's almost like DC isn't done telling this story.

>>83153580
Same. If DC is smart, they'll start seeding their new ongoings with foreshadowing for what's to come, especially if they plan on integrating the rest of the cast into the universe.

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>>83153526
>Ayyyy lets dilute these characters and their stories for a shameless cash grab tie in

Do you genuinely enjoy eating shit, or do you just tell yourself that you do?

>>83149108
He thought it would be funny

>>83153600
I have a theory it might not even be Manhattan. Would DC be insane enough to say that maybe Rorschach is behind it?

Think about it:

>Manhattan kills him
>he somehow pulls himself back together through sheer willpower alone like Jon did and comes back with Manhattan-esque powers
>goes to the DCU and fucks around with it, trying to make it more like the Watchmen world

Pandora describes whoever killed her as heartless, cynical and monstrous. That doesn't seem like Manhattan at all by the end of Watchmen. Plus, having the most popular character from the comic, the very character who kickstarted the grimdark edgy antihero trend, end up being the real menace to everyone's hope would be a better take that against the genre in its current state than turning Manhattan into a villain for no reason.

Thoughts?

I don't get it what everyone is saying.

To me, it looks like it was Ozy that did the bad, I'm sure he used Manhattan in some way to do it. But from those few bits of narration doesn't it look like it's Ozy committing the crime and Manhattan will do the time?

Can someone explain how this isn't true?

>>83153635
Back then, comics didn't go back into print. The idea of printing comics as a book that people would buy was unheard of.

Should Moore have known better and not been so naive? Probably, but just because they were lying when they promised him he'd retain the rights, doesn't mean they didn't screw him over

>>83153526
They're in love with a story that they've deluded themselves into believing is antisuperhero and praise its edginess as brilliant and artistic while neglecting to mention its other themes or flaws.

So yes, they literally are.

>>83153667
Did you even read the comic? He leaves Earth for Mars because he's grown tired of humans and their petty small lives. He sees the world in a way that transcends comprehension. They had an entire chapter explaining that.

When he says he might go off and create life at the end, that wasn't him saying "I'm going to be a mad scientist playing a mad experiment"

His characterisation would be that of a god who watches on with a clinical fascination, not as one who would meddle to keep his little game going on longer.

But please, tell me how him reverting back from a higher being to just a petty human with powers in any way is an interesting place to take his character

>>83153818
When the leaks happened and DC had to lift the spoiler embargo, Johns flat out confirmed it was Manhattan.

That's not to say Ozy can't be involved in some way, but look at it from a logical point of view: why would he, or any of the other surviving characters, even care about the DCU when he has his own world to worry about? Fucking around with entire universes for the sake of scientific curiosity seems like a Manhattan thing.

>>83153817
That would actually be so stupidly, bat-shit insane, it might actually work.

>>83154009
>>83153817
That would be shit.

Rorschach isn't petty or evil. He's essentially Steve Ditko's Mr. A. A right wing nut with very strong beliefs in right and wrong good and evil.

There is black and there is white and there is nothing in between.

If Rorschach had Doc Manhattans powers, he'd take America back to the 1950's and keep it there, not become some controlling god wanting to bend universes to his whim.

>>83153526
>characters people have been hoping for years would return
No.

>>83153817
Rorschach is a lot of things, but he ain't heartless. He has a clearly defined moral code. Destroying lives and relationships for the sake of something selfish as that is pretty fucking evil, and it would need to be punished.

Watch DC end up doing it anyway.

>>83154117
JSA, Wally, Ted (kinda), Ryan Choi

>>83153635
It was partly that and partly DC's attempt at creatively bribing him to continue the story. They told him years later that they'd give him the rights back if he kept writing stories about the Watchmen cast, done the way they wanted.

>>83154007
if johns said it, then okay.

But to address your point, Ozy is a bad guy, hiding behind the excuse he is saving the world. HIS world IS saved. His plan was successful in Watchmen, he setup a big world catastrophe to unite the world and was successful. (Rorschach did send his evidence of the conspiracy to a tabloid, but again, it's a tabloid, and possibly nothing came of it, but that's beside the point).

>>83154107
>If Rorschach had Doc Manhattans powers, he'd take America back to the 1950's and keep it there, not become some controlling god wanting to bend universes to his whim.

Or it would turn him sociopathic and destroy what little emotion he has left. Look what having superpowers did to Jon, and he didn't even have Rorschach's baggage.

>>83144146
to be fair, she kindof/probably wanted to die. Things got better for her. but "lived too long" was definitely one of her things.

>DC is so creatively bankrupt they're shoving Watchmen into their big event comics, and in the form of Dr. Manhattan being the big evil mastermind no less.

This is a joke.

>>83154279
That doesn't answer my question. Ozy cares about preserving the peace in his world. Like you said, his plan was successful, he got everything he wanted, now all that's left is to make sure nothing threatens it.

The DCU is not a threat. They don't even know of the Watchmen universe's existence. Why would he care even the slightest bit about what happens to them or what Jon does as long as they don't threaten his world or his peace?

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>>83154412
Alan Moore pls

>>83154320
Rorschach IS his moral compass, if you took that away and made him some universe hoping tyrant god, what would be the point in having that character be Rorshcach seeing as it would resemble nothing of the character he was before.

You would essentially be making your own OC Doctor Manhattan donut steel and slapping Rorschach's name on him.

John learned how to make watches as a kid, he became a scientist, when he became Doc Manhattan he saw how the world fit together because that was who he was before. All that symbolism around clocks and watch making wasn't just for show you know

>>83154457
>>83153612

>>83154426
it's selfish self-gratification, he's the definition of narcissist. what's he going to do, read a book? watch tv? Or move on to the next step, save an entire universe.

>I told Geoff to make Doctor Manhattan responsible for the Nu52 and he actually did it!

>>83154580
The absolute madman

>>83143439
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/25/the-secret-mastermind-of-dcs-new-52-revealed

Whoa. So Dr. Manhattan is responsible for the New 52 universe. This connects the Watchmen Universe to the mainstream DC universe, where before they were seperate. Just wow.

I have to ask: is it bad that I kind of want to read this now? Like on the one hand it's disrespectful not only to the character of Dr. Manhattan but also to the entire universe Alan Moore created for Watchmen. On the other hand, I like crossover stuff, especially crazy ones like this. Like think about what this could lead to.

>>83143439
Because this worked so well with Constantine didn't it? It in no way diluted his character and left us with something that isn't quite as good as what came before.

>>83153373
>He has no reason to cover up his deeds.
Because as powerful as he is it is plausible that a combination of many powerful DC characters could stop him. This isn't the Watchmen universe where he's the only one with real powers.

>>83155057
Constantine hadn't had great stories in awhile

>>83155015
>is wanting to read a story that appeals to me bad

No, it's entertainment. If you don't want to support the idea then pirate it but life is too short to keep you away from something that makes you feel good.

>>83155137
But the way to fix that wasn't to take his character and stick it in the same world as Superman and Batman. It cheepens the world created in Hellblazer

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>>83143504
Who Rorschach team up with? Not Batman, that'd be too boring. The character should be one that's notably different than Rorschach yet still similar enough for the two characters to find some common ground. This is how many of the best buddy cop films work.

>>83155321
>>83153612

No-one. Its a stupid idea that cheapens the point of the characters.

Nobody said anything when Swamp Thing and Hellblazer were integrated into the DCU. And I know for a fact nobody said a word about the Endless cameos that happened a few years back.

But suddenly, the idea of Watchmen, which I might add began life as an Elseworlds with the actual Charlton characters before Moore turned them into OC Donut Steals, now taking place in the DC is bad? Are you all just sucking Moore's dick because you feel bad for him or do you legitimately think Watchmen should be put on this untouchable pedestal when stories that were just as good or even better than it got the same treatment and none of you fags took up for them?

>>83155383
The only answers are The Question or Blue Beetle.

Although admittedly it would be funny to see him meet Constantine and Swamp Thing just so we can have a cheap joke about the Alan Moore Trinity.

>>83143439
So is there any background I need to read to get into this or can I just start with Rebirth #1?

>>83143470
>I'm sure he even dreams angry sex dreams.
ftfy

>>83155385
Swamp Thing, Constantine, and the Endless were always part of the DCU.

And people did complain about Constantine become part of the main line.

>>83155443
You can just read Rebirth. Though it will spoil you if you cared about Superman's death arc or Darkseid War.

Isn't the legit scary thing that Dr. Manhattan has no real weaknesses? Only a Tachyon particle field "muddles" his senses.

We never really saw how far his actual limits were in Watchmen. He could legit be a more powerful figure that even Darkseid now. (Remember he was growing stronger as he was becoming more detached from humanity)

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>>83155385
I just think that when the point of a book is to deconstruct a medium, to then take those characters and put them in the very stories they were deconstructing cheepens them.

I also think that a large part of what makes these characters who they are is the setting they live in, more specifically cold war fear. Doc Manhattens entire point as a character is to show how a society gripped by cold war fear might react to a superbeing. A walking WMD

Rorschach needs his reds under the bed hatred of communism, its a big part of his characterisation

NIte Owl and Silk Spectre need the law banning masks because their arc is that even though they think they don't want to do the costume thing, deep down they get off on it and feel impotent without it.

Taking them out of their setting basically turns them into something that looks like them but isn't them.

>>83155641
Legion of superheroes will play a role in his defeat since time travel is their whole thing.

>>83155641
This is what makes Dr. Manhattan being behind the Nu 52 so interesting.

Everyone keeps saying he wasn't as cynical at the end of the story but if anything he's even more jaded and cynical at the Watchmen universe.

Him leaving and exploring alternate earths and attempting cosmic changes his actually fully in character for him Especially the "...maybe I'll create some" and "Nothing ever ends" lines.

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>>83153635
OK, first of all you have to remember that one of the reasons Moore went to DC in the first place was because IPC/Fleetway in the UK were screwing over artists and writers on all their comics. There's all sorts of horror stories from the early 2000AD days, and Moore was far from the only person affected. Kevin O'Neill got into serious trouble just for trying to get work credited. Things came to a head with Halo Jones, and Moore issued an ultimatum

> "But I got to the point where I'd said to IPC, "Look, you know that you've ripped these characters off from us. If you were to give us the rights back, I would gladly write another three books of Halo Jones. Whereas if you don't I will never write Halo Jones and you won't get any money from the character. And they thought, 'Yeah, let's hang on to the character forever and you never get any rights to it and never write any again.' So that's where it is."

Moore was already in touch with Karen Berger at DC at the time, and she saw what was going down with IPC first hand. Moore gets tempted over to work in the states on what would become Watchmen with what was then quite a generous contract that APPEARED to address his longstanding concerns - among the most important aspects of it was that he and Dave Gibbons got the IP rights to Watchmen when it went out of print and any merchandise sales. Fine. All good.

Watchmen was a success though. A huge success, to the point it needed reprinting (an unheard of phenomenon at the time). Rather than try and renegotiate the deal, DC higher ups decided to simply keep Watchmen reprinting watchmen constantly. Even when demand slowed to a trickle they kept reprinting, entirely to keep it out of Moore and Gibbons' hands. Worse, they made a lot of tie-in stuff like T-shirts, posters and the like and deliberately classified them as "promotional items" rather than "merchandise" specifically so they didn't have to pay the creatives anything.

>>83155834
I...I hadn't considered this.

They even have a direct reference to the Legion with the flight ring....

Nice catch.

>>83155862
Him meddling in affairs isn't though.

He would be more inclined to watch from afar with cold clinical eyes, allowing events to unfold as they happen rather than going in and interfering

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>>83155912
According to some reports Moore and Gibbons got only 2% of the money that DC made off Watchmen. Alongside this, overbearing editors and a proposal to have an "age rating" for all DC comics like films (something he and a lot of other DC writers and artists had a problem with) eventually soured him on the whole company. He completed his work and swore off from ever working with DC again.

Moore started doing a lot of independant work. In the early 90s Image forms and he did quite a lot of successful stuff for them but got increasingly frustrated by the fact he couldn't trust Liefeld to do what he said he would do as well as some of the somewhat shady businsess practices at the top.

Jim Lee kept him sweet by giving Moore his own imprint under Wildstorm, promising him independance. This was America's Best Comics. Moore gathered writers and artists to help him get this off the ground, and started work on comics like Top Ten and The League of Extraordinary Gentlement.

Soon after this, before ABC had even released anything, Jim Lee sold Wildstorm to DC. DC now owned ABC, and there's some suggestion that the Wildstorm buyout happened specifically to get Alan Moore's stuff again. Lee flew to England and promised Alan that he wouldn't have to deal with DC directly, and not wishing to see the writers and artists he'd signed up go unpaid, held his nose and kept ABC open. Things were fine for a while, but DC increasingly started to interfere in ABC books - to take one example, an absolutely authentic advertisement for a "Marvel" brand douche put in as a joke in LOEG 5 caused DC's Paul Levitz to have the entire print run destroyed and reprinted with an amended ad.

>>83155015

Is this storytimed?...

>>83155834
>>83155914
He doesn't perceive time in a linear fashion though, that's what the whole him on Mars thing was all about when he's describing different moments in time

That's why Ozy had to tachyon him up, because it shielded that moment in time from his view

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>>83155975
While all this was going on, the movies started to come out. From Hell, the long and fairly complex Jack the Ripper story, became a pretty straightforward Johnny Depp vehicle. League of Extraordinary Gentlemen... well, we all know what happened there. Kevin O'Neil hated it much more than Moore, who was just pretty cynical about the whole thing
> "As long as I could distance myself by not seeing them," he said, he could profit from the films while leaving the original comics untouched, "assured no one would confuse the two. This was probably naïve on my part".
After the film came out Moore was sued for plagiarism by a guy who insisted that LXG (the movie, not the comic) was ripped off of his screenplay called Cast of Characters. The case had some merit, but against the producers at 20th Century Fox, not Moore. Fox settled, which pissed off Moore even more, because he felt it made him look guilty.
>Moore felt that enough was enough and decided that if something was worth reacting to, "it was worth overreacting to." He stated "I'd have nothing to do with films anymore. If I owned the sole copyright, like with 'Voice Of The Fire,' there would not be a film. Anything else, where others owned copyrights, I'd insist on taking my name off future films. All of the money due to me would go to the artists involved. I'd divorce myself from the film process, the film industry and any adaptations. And I felt a sense of moral satisfaction."

This is where Moore started having his name taken off the film credits and giving all of his share of the option money to his artist collaborators, starting with Constantine.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=14937

>>83155962
isn't that exactly what he is doing?

He's only destroying people who know to much and get in the way of his experiment.

He's not actively revealed himself in any way. He is watching afar with cold clinical eyes.

>>83156010
Both Watchmen and Rebirth #1 have been storytimed within the past 24 hours. Look in the archive if they've fallen off the catalog.

>>83156083
But he would allow for his experiment to carry on in whatever form happened. He doesn't care what happens, he just wants to observe it.

If he created the new 52 universe to see what happens, and then meddled in it to prevent certain outcomes, then 1, he'd be a shit scientist, 2, it would invalidate the point of the experiment.

>>83156074
V For Vendetta was the final straw. He was already narked about it because, like Watchmen, he feels DC fiddled him out of the movie rights. Then the adaptation changed the politics of the work to be a pretty straightforward Anti-Bush piece with American liberal values defeating American Neo-conservaties, rather than British anarchists fighting fascists. Then the director lied about Moore loving the film. I can't find it now, but it was something like "I think he'll watch this in his flat in London and smile" which wasn't accurate on any level.

I'm pretty sure I'm missing out on a lot of stuff, but suffice it to say that Moore has a lot of reasons to be grumpy.

Found this article on his thoughts on movies which was quite interesting as well
http://www.mtv.com/shared/movies/interviews/m/moore_alan_060315/

>>83156172
Couldn't you argue that he just removing anything that could taint the results of the experiment?

Think about a lab preventing contamination to biological samples.

>>83156186
Nah Moore has said in the past that he doesn't think adaptations of things are usually better than the original, and that with comics, his entire reason for using that medium for some stories was because it could do what films could not.

In this spirit he was happy to sell the movie rights because he didn't think that they were going to be made. And then some were, which to him, missed out on the point or nuances of the story so he decided to have nothing more to do with the film adaptations of his work and instead give all of his profits to the artists behind the books.

>>83149754
Yeah, or maybe like someone making a comic book where Mina Harker is now a vampire and she's friends with Alan Quartermain and also Harry Potter is the antichrist for some reason

>>83156361
That was actually my point but I didn't get that to across properly. In the longer article at the end it comes up

>My position used to be: If the film is a masterpiece, that has nothing to do with my book. If the film is a disaster, that has nothing to do with my book. They're two separate entities, and people will understand that. This was very naive because most people are not bothered with whether it's adapted from a book or not. And if they do know, they assume it was a faithful adaptation. There's no need to read the book if you've seen the film, right? And how many of the audience who went to see "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" thought, "Hmmm, I've really got to go read 'The Odyssey' "?

>When you're talking about things like "V for Vendetta" or "Watchmen," I don't have a choice. Those were works which DC Comics kind of tricked me out of, so they own all that stuff and it's up to them whether the film gets made or not. All I can do is say, "I want my name taken off of it and I don't want any of the money." I'd rather the money be distributed amongst the artists. But even though [the filmmakers] were aware that I'd asked that my name be taken off "V for Vendetta" and had already signed my money away to the artist, they issued a press release saying I was really excited about the film. Which was a lie. I asked for a retraction, but they weren't prepared to do that. So I announced I wouldn't be working with DC Comics anymore. I just couldn't bear to have any contact with DC Comics, Warner Bros. or any of this shark pool ever again.

One of the things I don't like about film is its incredible immersive quality. It's kind of bullying — it's very big, it's very flashy, it's got a lot of weight and it throws it around almost to the detriment of the rest of our culture. And I have gotten tired of lazy critics who, when they want to insult a film, they'll say it has "comic book characters" or a "comic book plot" — using "comic book" as code for "illiterate."

>>83146192
So whats the point of watchmen
never read it

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>>83155435
>Constantine and Swamp Thing
>Not wanting Swamp Thing, Rorshach and Mogo
>mfw

>>83156644
What the hell does Rorshach have to do with Mogo?

>>83156962
Mogo was created by Moore

>>83157039
No he wasn't.

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I don't usually read a whole lot of superhero comics but this is so incredibly dumb I really want to. It's like, why not, right? Just fuck my story up, Senpai. Might as well go as far as possible into batshit territory so it loops back around to being entertaining, right?

Is anyone planning on storytiming this thing?

Also, on the subject of Rorschach being alive again: whatever happened to The Question? He was one of the Supers I actually liked reading about. Has anything happened recently? Last I remember some gods took away his face in a redone backstory, and then he did nothing for a while.

>>83157039
So was Rot Lop Fan. Why not have Rorschach team up with him?

>>83157061
He was tho

>>83157101
Because he's way less absurd and less well-known.

>>83156577
Its a deconstruction of the superhero genre set in an alt-reality 1980's where vigilantes had been outlawed years ago, watergate never happened, Nixon got a third term and America won vietnam thanks to the worlds only superhuman, a being who can basically alter matter at will.

Its in time magazine's top 100 greatest novels of all time, the only comic on there, and while I know critical adulation is no reason to like or dislike something, its had an enormous effect on the industry.

Read it anon, a storytime was is in the archives.

I thought Before Watchmen was the worst DC could do to the property but now they're dragging it into the continuity bullshit they pull every 5 years. Geoff Johns is no better than Zack Snyder.

>>83156186
>"I think he'll watch this in his flat in London and smile" which wasn't accurate on any level.
I remember that one, and the paraphrased bantz from Moore in responses on how all of England is just London to some people.
Just this one city floating in the middle of nowhere and fucking nothing for stretches of sea until you get to Europe.

On this City Island there's only flats. No other building structures.

Reminded me of the Africa as a country of huts thing. Fucking hilarious.

>>83157552
As an Englishman, Jesus Christ this.

Its the same thing with "the English accent" what you mean is received pronunciation which nobody fucking speaks in who didn't work for the BBC in the bloody 70's.

For such a small nation, the sheer number of accents and the small distance between them is staggering, but to Americans in particular, everywhere is London and you either speak in crisp received pronunciation tones or, if you're working class, you're a dick van fucking dyke cockney chimney sweep.

>yfw it's not Manhattan, but Rorschach who managed to reassemble himself and now has the same powers

>yfw if DC had gotten the rights to Miracleman instead of Marvel it would have been him instead of Dr. Manhattan and Grant would be writing a Miracleman ongoing

>>83156361
People treat this as a tantrum, but when you listen to him speak about it, he knows its ridiculous and has a slightly tongue in cheek opinion about the money he's lost, but he'd said that's what he was going to do and he decided, fuck it, I'm a man of my word.

He might be a snake god worshipping hobo nutter from Norfolk, where people have six toes, but I can't help admiring him for that

>>83143439
Is they gonna show his big blue dongus?

>>83157940
>There will never be an event where Earth's heroes turn back a Qys Imperium invasion and Superman and Miracleman fight each other

>>83158256
Absolutely no fucking chance.

Think about how John Constantine doesn't swear no more

Though what really amuses me is that wanker and bollocks are used by him as ways of showing off his colourful British charm, but over here in Blighty they aren't words that you'd hear before the watershed at 9pm on TV for fear that kiddiewinks might hear it

>>83155057
Are you high?

Constantine was a DC Character before he was Vertigo.

He even has a cameo apperance in COIE

>>83158492
Sauce on that cameo? I have the trade in my hands, just can't find it.

>>83159173
Technically he appeared in a Swamp Thing tie-in, and Swamp Thing appeared in DC a lot.

>>83153313
This tbqh. You people need to actually listen to the guy talk. Most of his answers in interviews are pretty tongue in cheek. It's not his fault that it doesn't translate well to text.

>>83158492
The Hellblazer comics never put themselves in the DCU though, or if they did references to other supers were never made

>>83159432
You know, aside from fucking Swamp Thing and Zatanna.

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>>83154580

>>83153121
There's a difference in feeling a sense of artistic integrity and not wanting what you created to be diluted and legitimately being buttmad

The only reason why he has his names struck off his films and the pay to his artists is because he said that would be the case when he didn't think more would actually be made. And then they were, and if you hear him talk about it he jokingly talks about how he regrets what he said, but feels he should stick by it.

Alan Moore is actually a pretty funny bloke. surprisingly likeable at least

>>83143940

Well, post-crisis DCU was created in the '80s...

>>83144857

If Flash almost fixed it, but Manhattan intervened, what in the ever-loving fuck was the point of Pandora?

>>83156480
>One of the things I don't like about film is its incredible immersive quality.

I can agree with his other points, but what the fuck kind of a complaint is this?

>>83146111
>One of the characters who pretty much got erased by the New 52 was Wally West.

So how come this issue has Wally describing how he ran 'too far' (or something like that) into the speed force and wiped himself out?

>>83159535
10/10

>>83160046
it's called a retcon, retroactive continuity, they are changing it so that he did but it wasn't the case before this story

>>83149242
>Other universes get merged in the big two all the time.

What other universes has Marvel absorbed, other than its own Ultimate universe?

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>>83143439
Alan Moore is upset?

Today must be a day that ends in y!

>>83143940

The "blue hand holding a galaxy" visual goes back to Green Lantern comics in the 60s.

>>83157312
>deconstruction of the superhero genre

Which was really something that never needed to exist.

>>83160315

So in the new continuity, when did Wally dematerialize himself?

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>>83160454
Why not?

Its a shame we got it, and it wasn't only a decent story, but one that would influence writers of not only comics, but other mediums in the decades that followed.

You're totally fucking right anon, it shouldn't have been made

>>83159535

We told Dr Manhattan to create his own universe.

He actually did it! The absolute Watchmen!

>>83143439
How much do the artists get paid to willingly participate in this shit? Gary Frank, for instance, could go anywhere he wants.

>>83160602
It was during some battle, I didn't really care that much to make note of it but it's in the issue.

>>83150137
Not really. Manhattan's view of life as a "thermodynamic miracle" would only be enhanced by all the various alternate universes and timelines since it only further illustrates how monumentally unlikely the exact particular circumstances behind any one persons existence are. Yeah you have a bucketful of Supermans but each one is different and unique from every other, which is what makes life valuable to Dr. Manhattan.

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>>83160695
It might work for Doctor Manhattan, but it wouldn't for the rest of them, which is what it seems like they might be doing given that Bats finds Comedians badge in the batcave.

Otherwise that would be a completely pointless moment where Batman should be like, what the fuck is this shit? And it never gets adressed

But DC would never do that

Right?

R-right?

>>83160409
Wasn't the hand explained as the Spectre unfucking everything when Krona looked back and caused entropy to exist?

>>83160605

Its influence is the main reason it would be better not having happened. Deconstructions are usually up-their-own-arse boring.

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>>83161394
But Watchmen isn't though.

You might think it is, and that's fine, but plenty of people, myself included don't think so.

I'd even argue that the majority of those who read it enjoyed it given its place in the popular canon of comic books.

So its ok that you don't like it and I'd never say you were wrong to, but if you think the world and the media and the comic book medium in general should bend to your opinion and your view of the world you're, in my opinion (ironically) a small minded up-your-own-arse-boring wanker

>>83144680
I got the impression he could not tell the difference between a living and a dead body. Since they have the same amount of atoms in them they should be 1:1 the same thing.

>>83155383
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Who cares?? Let's have some fun with this premise! C'mon humor me.

Does this mean that an Earth with 1950's technology is capable of manufacturing beings far beyond not only every other intelligent and superintelligent alien out there in the DC multiverse, but higher up than the top level entities that supposedly rule it?

>>83161951
See:
>>83153612
>>83153703

Its there in the thread mate, if you take the time to read it.
>>83155660

>>83160316
Malibu Universe for a time then they cancelled it completely.

But also 2099 universe, and recently wherever the fuck Spider Gwen comes from.

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>>83153526
>Are all Watchmenfags such joyless faggots?
Dude

it was a mini and a film about joyless faggots in a joyless faggot alt universe....as written by a perpetual joyless faggot.

What do you think?

>>83155321
>>83161951
>>83162161

For the love of god /co/ I was just JOKING around. I don't actually want a Rorschach team-up. I was just jumping off this anon: >>83143504
who said he couldn't wait for a Blue Beetle and Nite-Owl team-up. I wasn't being serious.

>>83160316
To be fair, Marvel seems to have embraced the nature of comics in that writers don't give two shits about continuity, they cherry pick and choose what they want and if someone breaks it too much either no-one pays enough attention to care, or if its a big enough character there might be a big "revelation that will explain all" that is used as a cheep ploy to sell more comics.

Or did you think there was some other reason why they never bother mentioning stories that aren't hugely influential ones. Spider-Man might reference the death of Captain Stacy from time to time, but it sure as fuck doesn't give a fuck about the 4th time Spidey fought the Scorpion

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>>83162354
>Alan Moore is devoid of joy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wg4f_XAYA

He's actually a pretty funny charming bloke, people just assume he's grumpy because even though he's a comic book fag, he has little to no time for whatever the big two are cooking up these days

>>83149108
Too many beans don't go vegan.

>>83162447
>I was just pretending to be retarded

>>83163031

>>83153526
>>83162354
Jesus these two are right. You guys are joyless faggots.

>>83148922

I'm hype as FUCK for Batman vs Ozymandias!

>>83153526
>Are all Watchmenfags such joyless faggots?

Yes.

No, that's totally not true. In my opinion Watchmen is the second best comic book ever written (after The Dark Knight Returns). I love and adore Watchmen, but I'm also really excited to see where they go with introducing at least Doctor Manhattan into the DC universe.

I'm also hoping for Ozymandias, Silk Spectre II, and Night Owl II to be brought in as well.

I just hope they have the dignity to leave the Comedian and Rorschach dead.

>>83147449
I'm sure he can, easily. Just take the atoms that make up cancer cells and teleport them out of you, or convert them into atoms that make up blood cells. He could easily rebuild specific people from nothing, too. He just never cared enough to, or never thought of it.

>>83162605

I'm honestly sexually attracted to Moore's voice.

>>83165427
>I just hope they have the dignity to leave the Comedian and Rorschach dead.
I strongly doubt they do.

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There have been worse and more retared interpretations of his work.

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>>83144776
>>83144857

>>83147315
>4:52

>>83167371

I can hope can't I?

Especially the Comedian. He's inspired by Nick Fury, not a DC character.

>>83169364
He said he doesn't mind anymous, and finds it funny that Time Warner (the company that licenses V and its merchendose (the masks)) is indirectly supporting such an anti-business "organization"

>>83144504
This was Starlin, you moron.

Rorschach revealed alive when

>>83157761
>or, if you're working class, you're a dick van fucking dyke cockney chimney sweep.
Who of course all moved out to Essex twenty years ago.

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>>83170607
> Comedian
> inspired by Nick Fury
> not a DC character

[there are people on /co/ this ignorant]

It truely is time to shit.

Okay. Technically he was just becoming DC after they bought Charlton at the time. Still.

>>83172278

Thank fuck someone else finally remembers Peacemaker.

Inb4 they have superman and manhatten fight, make it seems like its an epic thing and then have superman asspull his way to victory or something

>>83170607
>Comedian inspired by Nick Fury
>Nick Fury

Are you a Marvelshill or a retard?

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>>83172698
Why not both?!

>>83167371
I'll admit, I'm really interested to see how they'd bring Rorschach back. At least the Comedian still has a body left.

>>83147002

if manhattan has gone full blown villain, who's powerful enough to stop him?

>>83143978
Oh. So they will try to justify that shitiest waste of time by dragging watchmen.

>>83143439
Somewhere Grant Morrison is laughing.

>>83143439
When isn't he?

>>83172965
Atom by atom. The truth is they won't, Jon has no reason to. Unless they're going to make him contrived and out-of-character.

>>83172278
>>83172698

I forgot about Peacemaker.

However >>83172788 is right too.

>>83149242
It completely misses the point of watchmen.

>>83173722
That you think it was about Watchmen and not its affect on the industry you were the one who missed the point

>>83173779
effect*

well now I look dumb and I should kill myself

>>83173779
>hurr durr watchmen changed the industry
So? That doesn't excuse this bullshit.

>>83173838
Criticize the usage if you want, but why claim it misses the point when it doesn't? That doesn't make sense.

>>83172278
That costume is one of the most stupid things I have ever seen.

>>83173889
It did miss the point.
Bringing characters from watchmen to DC misses the point of watchmen.

>>83169695
Hypercrisis when??

Im just bummed because Johns fixed it so it's now absolutely impossible for there to ever be a Crime Syndicate story ever again.

>>83143439

I thought Dr Manhattan was supposed to be a GOOD guy.

>>83174659
the point of watchmen is that trying to make capeshit 'realistic' just gets you a story about unlikable maniacs

Call me pleb with entry-level shit taste, but Watchmen is my favorite book.

This shit is insulting. Gotta agree with other anon, though, it's weird it's only happening NOW.

>>83175056
>RIP CSA!
>jk I'm Doc manhattan and boosh they're revived

It's cape comics bud, anything is possible.

>>83175056
>absolutely impossible for there to ever be a Crime Syndicate story ever again.

do you even read comics?
>the Crime Syndicate...IS BACK. How? Buy this book to find out

>>83155321
Batman would never tolerate Rorschach.

>>83175077
no one in Watchmen were good guys. they were just guys. the most heroic character in the whole thing was Rorschach's therapist when he stopped a purse snatcher

>>83155321
I could see him ending up working with Midnighter
>keeps trying to explain to middy that homosexuality is degeneracy
>Middy just replies 'Have you SEEN my Dick?'

>>83156047
it's a common trope in fiction these days that time travel creates tachyons

hell CW's The Flash uses tachyons just to help himself run a bit faster

>>83156172
depends on the parameters of the experiment. which we won't know until more books come out

>>83170752
shouldn't it be described as the other way around? by buying these masks and making them topical, they're supporting Time Warner

>>83159432
Pretty sure he implicitly references Superman existing pretty early in.

>>83145611
wow what artist is this

>>83155385
>a few years back

There's people posting on this board who weren't *alive* when Dream showed up in JLA.

Also Sandman involved Martian Manhunter in like issue 3.

>>83143940

But I thought YHWH created the universe. Why is he letting all this shit happen to his reality?

>>83143439
>implying Alan cares about this anymore

You're more deluded than Johns himself

>>83175767
>This shit is insulting.

Watchemn is a great book, but the fact THIS is your reaction is what tips us off you're entry level shit taste non-comic reader.

>>83143940
My headcanon was that he created OUR WORLD.

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>>83155321
Better question is who will he eventually team up with?

>>83153526
>this
>interesting

Small minds are so easily entertained

>>83153612
>I'm not even mad, I'm astounded at how blatently DC are mining the bedrock of ideas now.
What do you expect? I wouldn't be surprised if this came from the top at TimeWarner itself.

I could be mad, but it doesn't change the fact that Watchmen still exists and I can ignore this shit. My only problem are the autists who will insist on reinterpreting Watchmen through these works. I catch myself doing this with Darwyn's Minutemen and I hate myself for it.

>>83154412
Remember when people made fun of Marvel and called them creatively bankrupt for crossovering and bringing 616 and ultimate together?

This is 10x worse. And Johnsfags lap it up.

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So people still don't get that Watchmen didn't get popular by the characters alone? They were interesting, but not THAT interesting. What made Watchmen great was the setting, the story and all the graphical experiments in had going on. Without them the characters a) lose all their meaning and b) aren't THAT great

>>83155975
I still don't understand how people can be company dickriders while ignoring the ways companies fuck creators over.

I mean creatives are the ones who write the stories and give you what you love, why would you shit on them?

>>83176319
if that was true the characters wouldn't be the things talked about the most but they are

>>83176225
that relationship could easily dissolve

>>83176350
But they are closely connected with the setting with the storytelling and the story. Without them, characters will be just another angsty antiheroes.

I guess Manhattan really is a god. He's the Deist God, the master clockmaker.

>>83176120
If you sell a radical a gun, who is helping who?

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>>83162023
>We thought that Before Watchmen was the worst thing that could happen to watchmen
>we were wrong

>>83169364
I always wanted to have V's mask. I love V for Vendetta maybe more than the Watchmen, bu now it would just be associated with anonymous shit.

>>83143439
Why is Manhattan being portrayed as such a villain, he wasn't that much of a dick in watchmen, just emotionally malformed by his transformation into a nigh-omnipotent cosmic superbeing.

This whole concept is stupid.

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>>83157061

>>83176410
and that's what most of watchman's fanboys liked about it, which is why Moore hates them

>>83176501
Because Johns

>muh shitty symbolism that doesn't even work

>>83176433
he's a demiurge. he can't create, he can only rearrange what already exists

>>83176343
Because most of them are not actually interested in the creators, not really, but just want to see their favourite characters doing things forever. The art or writing is honestly irrelevant. Its like soap opera, so long as they get their stories the quality of the art or writing, the larger context of the stories, the history of the people involved or the behind the scenes dickery doesn't matter. The only important thing is that Spider-man or Batman or whoever keeps coming out on time.

Think about all the people crying because Wally came back. That's fucking sad.

>>83176450

That's a terrible analogy. There's a whole underground business set up on this

>>83176568
Characterfags are truly cancer.

>>83176501
>Why is Manhattan being portrayed as such a villain,

Johns himself has already said he doesn't see Manhattan as a villain. The only people he's killed are Pandora and Owlman and that's because they figured out whats he's doing. And that's fine, Manhattan is not a Superhero who has never killed, he was blasting viet cong to atoms for weeks

>>83176542
I though the demiurge was the creator.

Michael Demiurge brought creation and Lucifer Morningstar shaped it no?

>>83176609
>viet cong
>people

>>83176629
fuck off to /pol/

>>83176627
Demiurge, also called Ialdabaoth, is the gnostic false god who awkoke in an empty universe and presumed he must have made it, ignorant that he is just a splinter of the Aeon Sophia, who is herself just one of several Aeons

>>83176686
What does gnostic mean in that context? And who is Aeon Sophia?

>>83155321
Question?

God, the writing in modern capes is so far up its own ass.

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>>83162605
I'm not going to lie, this has completely changed how I thought Alan Moore was as a person. He seems like an alright bloke

I'd definitely sit in his local and have a few pints of real ale with him.

>>83178478
>Mordern capes

Its been that way since the 80's anon, only difference now is that writers are up their own arse while being up the arse of writers back then who were up their own arse.

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>>83178511
Its been said before, but his sense of humour and warmth doesn't really translate to text in the interviews. When you hear him speak you can tell when he's being hyperbolic or taking the piss, but it reads a lot more harshly.

My favourite Alan Moore stories are still these ones though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS0r3VNdV_k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=337-ycZz6IM

Quite relevant to the thread too from 1:10 onwards
>...and then Dave bloody Gibbons phoned.
I've recently dug myself a cave, Warren.

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>>83143447

>>83179554
Fuck i didn't noticed that

Is it possible that this is just a homage to Watchmen, and that the presumed Manhattan is actually some other character, old or new?

>>83179885
I mean, do you think the Comedians pin is just a homage too?

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>>83179885
Don't be rediculous. They've hyped it up as this now, so if it weren't people would feel betrayed whether or not they want the Watchmen characters in the DCU or not.

I'd say noone wants watered down shitty versions of these characters, but that's what we're going to get given that the setting was so integral to informing who they were and why they did what they did.

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Just wanted to remind you guys that Mr. Oz is Ozymandias

>>83179554
I wonder if Johns ever understood Watchmen, Rorschach is like /pol/ fused with /k/, he is the complete opposite of the "optimistic" characters Johns supposedly wants to bring back. This analogy feels so wrong...

>>83156462
Except those characters have already been used in a variety of other subpar material and LOEG was actually a good postmodern take on things .

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>>83180948

He also has something bad hidden.

>>83155321
Batman/Rorschach would sell a million books theyll do it

>>83181059
Dan, probably.

>>83181087

Roschach could end up being the new Harley Quinn.

You'd have Roschach, Roschach"s Journal (a teamp up book) and Roschach/Batman.

>implying Manhattan would give even half a fuck about a new world he created

to him it'd be like watching an ant colony. curiosity mostly, but no real personal stakes. why the fuck would he be angry at anybody figuring it out his "secret"