FLASH SEASON FINALE!

>>83125011
>why we doing flashpoint already?
flash written into a corner, the other shows need a reboot and an excuse to pull in supergirl

I'm disappointed though to be honest, I felt so attached to everybody's chemistry with each other.
time to rebuild that chemistry in a whole fucking season

>>83125058
Wait are they using this to reboot arrow too? because i would definitely be down for that.

>>83125011
I haven't seen the second season at all, but can't Cisco see other timelines? They can pull some LOST shit and have Cisco try and change shit back if they want.

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>completely invalidate Barry's character development in the past two episodes
>just to get everyone hype over low-budget Flashpoint

Things will just go back to the status quo in a few eps. They have so many plot threads left dangling they need to come back to. And I can't believe you idiots think Arrow is going to reboot. Just because we don't like it doesn't mean they're going to pander to us with a reboot.

>>83125538
Yeah, that's one of the main reasons I dislike Flashpoint. It basically says that all the hours we've spent watching the Flash were for nothing.

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>>83125011
how many people will Killer Clam kill next season

barry really gives no fucks about the timeline does he

>>83125644
>were for nothing

That's not it necessarily, it's more that after multiple episodes dealing with Barry coming to terms with his Mom's death and deciding not to save her to change the timeline, and after coming to terms with his role as the Flash and the part that those tragedies played in helping him get there, he just goes "NAH FUCK THAT" and changes his mind anyways.

It makes no goddamn sense.

>>83125681

The Speed Force likes him. He can get away with way more shit than Zoom could.

>>83125687
Barry accepted his mother's death, and then his father is brutally murdered in front of him as a direct result of Barry being the Flash. Barry has been haunted by his decisions the entire season, to the point of recklessness and irresponsibility. He's come to regard the Flash as the root of everything that went wrong in his life, and he decides to simply give it all up, save Nora, and prevent himself from becoming the Flash.

>>83125687

He's grieving. People make stupid decisions when they're not in the right state of mind especially if you have super powers.

>>83125011
Barry got stuck with BAD END. I don't blame him for retrying. You could tell by the end of this episode he was completely crushed. Not even iris saying she loved him was enough.

>>83125808
>He's grieving. People make stupid decisions when they're not in the right state of mind especially if you have super powers.

he hasn't been rational for a good time on season 2 and I'm really behind on it


seems like producers ran out of stories

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>BARRY ALLEN IS SPIDER-MAN NO MORE!

>>83125784
This shit is going to get wibbly wobbly timey wimmy next season if they aren't careful.

While I don't want the entire next season to be a version of Flashpoint, I think maybe five episodes enough to tell a good version of that story.

>>83125921
The issue with that would be that it would by proxy cause Arrow to go "wibbly wobbly" too, since unlike Legends, The Flash doesn't have the luxury of no one giving a shit about its continuity.

Not saying no one gives a shit about Legends, I'm just saying they could pretty much do the whole plot of Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, and no one would bat an eye.

>Instead of Project SUPERMAN we get Project SUPERGIRL
>yfw this is how they integrate Supergirl into the CW verse

>>83125011
Why? Because WB wants to do their flash movie. Think about everyone that gets killed off in CW shows. It's because they're going to be in an upcoming movie. I see it as the writers want to try Flashpoint before the series gets canned because DCEU

>>83126055
I'd be okay with this.

>>83125011
They blew their load on Barry going so fast he dies waaaaaaaaaay too early and pointlessly.

>>83126055
cant wait till black jimmy olsen to start cucking barry and oliver.

>>83126108

Seriously, they blew a major COIE reference on this?

>>83126126
>jimmy olsen
You mean James Olsen.

>>83126033
>The issue with that would be that it would by proxy cause Arrow to go "wibbly wobbly" too, since unlike Legends, The Flash doesn't have the luxury of no one giving a shit about its continuity.

that is another detail, how this will affect arrow? it's the same universe

>>83126167
Only the BIG GUY can call him Jimmy.

>>83126288
James knows Bane?

Could we get white Wally or dual Wallys?

>>83126202
To be honest, I'm still not entirely convinced it will.
There's a chance that there will be some sort of rule of inevitability that makes it so that Barry still becomes the Flash somehow.

Their definition of how the timeline and everything else works is all over the place.

>Barry can run so fast he rips holes in space time
>This is not a concious effort, it simply is a side effect of reaching a certain speed, and all he can do is direct the destination
>Oh wait, if he runs at a certain high enough speed, he disintegrates, because he's running too fast
>This speed is slower than the time warping one he casually uses now

>When a timeline is abandoned, speedsters who came from that timeline become remnants
>Except the Barry who peeked into the room
>Nah, he's going full Marty McFly

All that being said:
If I had to guess, the first episode of the next season will deal with the world going completely shit. Possibly because of how the Flash was kind of important in not letting Vandal Savage Vandal his way into power, so Barry finds out (once again) that he needs to fix this, and goes back and un-saves his mom, leading to the version of himself that gave the "Stop Invincible Son" look to himself at the end of last season.
Notice how that Barry was nowhere to be seen?

>>83125011
>flash in charge of being good

lol if you're not jumping ship after this disaster of a season

>>83126484
the "Stop Barry, Stop" Flash from the future did his bit with Barry in the door, got kid Barry out of the house, then our Barry came in and stopped Reverse Flash from killing his mom.

>>83127555
Hm, yeah now that I think about it you're right.
Bit hard to keep track of all these Barrys

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>>83125425
>olicity will die in your lifetime
thank you sweet Jesus

All of you complaining that everything was erased are full of shit. We all know what the end game is. Flashpoint goes on as intended, the world is a lot shittier, and Eobard is there again as the villain probably. Right before the world goes to shit like in the real Flashpoint paradox, someone (probably green arrow since he's the batman of this universe) will murderkill reverse flash, allowing barry to travel back to his mother's murder (again) in order to stop end-of-season-2 flash from stopping reverse flash, and instead doing pic related. It's an interesting romp through an alternate universe that will allow the writers to once again use reverse flash, which is the one thing they are really good at, and its also probably a chance for Geoff Johns to go back and make Flashpoint into what it was originally supposed to be, which is a cautionary standalone flash story about time travel, and not a full reboot.

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>>83128661
forgot pic

>>83128661
Agreed, you pretty much nailed it.

>>83125644

it does matter because all those events led to what happened; without those, there would be nothing.

Just be happy that Eddie will be back and he will be the new Zoom.

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>>83125011
How do you all feel about the Flash when it comes to murder? My sister was yearning for Barry to kill Zoom. I tried to explain to her that Barry doesn't usually do that sort of thing. She wasn't having it and was bringing up arguments about "police killing when they have to!" I argued that's usually in self-defense (could have argued that Barry did that when he killed Atom Smasher and Sand Demon but it slipped my mind. Will bring it up later) and what Barry was planning was premeditated murder. How do you all feel about Flash killing people? I'm fine if it's "the only way" and if Barry acknowledges how much he hated to take a life. Typically, I'd rather Barry killing be avoided.

>>83130421
TV Show Barry kills all the damn time.

>>83130498
He only killed Atom Smasher and Sand Demon. That's it.

>>83130421
I'm fine with him killing someone as long as there is no stopping that person.

A speedster can effectively have free reign over the whole of existence, re-writing history as he pleases, unmaking reality at the seams if that's what he wants.
The least you must do, is find a way to take that power from them. If you can do it, then that is a good alternative to killing them. Locking them in Star Labs generally does the trick though, so that - in most cases - removes the necessity to kill.

Then again, there are times when it would be preferable that he just killed someone.
Life must be miserable as a concious statue.

>>83131548
I agree! Star Labs and Iron Heights usually do the trick.

>>83125011
Post Screens you fucking twats, I don't want to waste 40 minutes of my time just for the hype moments

>>83125425
>>83128620
>tfw I just want Arrow to be cool again
Don't set me up for disappointment anon.

>>83130421
Barry killed 3 people already and he doesnt give a fuck most of the times. It was never a case of "oh i cant kill" and more like "this enemy is such a chump I can actually capture him for my personal guantanamo zoo". He killed all the times he needed.

And if there was no speed demons he would have killed him.

>>83133698
He hasn't killed an enemy that was already down though. Like Zoom was. The villains he killed were either in self-defense or to save someone at that moment.

>>83130421

Psychopaths are literally not human. Why would you feel guilty about killing Jay Garrick.

remember that time Barry killed an 16 year old kid by aging him up?

>>83133640
the ratings have been dropping ever since olicity took over so maybe it will finally for the writers to drop that shit

>>83133906
the writers only care what twitter has to say and it wants more Felicity

Why is everybody talking as if Arrow is going to be reset?is it confirmed

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So Season 1 Finale, a Future Barry came back and told his past self to not save his mother. Can we assume this is S3 barry when he realizes he's fucked up everything by saving his mom?

I'm really hoping Flashpoint is just an intro to the season, maybe 1-2 episodes to set up Barry's conflict and with Barry's time traveling shenanigans pissing off the Speed Force and involving Cicada (if that is the Big Bad).

Otherwise, all of s1-s2 has been invalidated by Flashpoint creation, but if the whole season is Flashpoint and Barry eventually travels back to stop it, that will just invalidate S3. It's hard to enjoy the show when all developments mean nothing.

>>83133698
>>''this enemy is such a chump I can actually capture him for my personal guantanamo zoo"

Top kek

How I think they'll do it. 2-3 weeks before they start all their shows regular seasons there will be a 2 week Flashpoint event mini-series like thing. Monday-Thursday for those 2-3 weeks will be an altered version of Flashpoint that can fit with their restrictions on CW. Some such change would have to be:
> Thomas Wayne replaced with Robert Queen as an older Arrow.

> The Atlantian v Amazon War would be changed to something like Kryptonians v Thanagarians, or maybe The League of Assassins v A Mirikuru Army lead by Slade

After these episodes are over and Barry's back in the normal timeline, then things go on like normal.

> Arrow getting worse and worse

> Legends having too many people to count (But no more Barista Bullshit, so that's a plus)

> Supergirl dealing with the fallout of budget cuts

>>83134326
It wouldn't be 2 alien races fighting on earth, but they could replace the Superman project thing easily with Supergirl, though she'd have to go on a diet to get the skinny malnourished look

>expecting Barry to murder Zolomon doppleganger so we get the Trial of Flash like what we saw when barry is running through time
>goes back in time to save his mom for a shitty flashpoint

>>83134326
>Flashpoint brings back the Hawks
>Introduces E2 and E3 Felicity. Also their lost twins. So 6 Felicities.
>Together they are the FLA, Felicity league of America

I'll watch it if it means Wellsobard is the antagonist.

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Who's the villain
is cavanagh gone
i sure hope this doesnt bring back eddie thawne just for the sake of muh romance conflict

They blew their load too early on Flashpoint.

>>83128682
>STOP INVINCIBLE SELF

>>83134046
The Future Barry in the S1 finale is Barry from the future newspaper that Wells had - the FLASH MISSING one.

>>83128661
Very much this. /co/ got in hissy fit so easily these days

>>83134801
>is cavanagh gone

If he is I will hunt down every last writer of Flash and force them to write him back in some how. I don't care if Earth-3 Wells is the son of motherfucking Apocalypse, he will not be lost

Why didn't he kill Eddie as a child as well?
>prevent Reverse Flash from existing
>saves his mother
>saves the real E1 Wells
>no particle accelerator explosion

What are the Time Masters doing about this shit with Barry Allen?

>>83128682
Who was this? Was this mid season 2 Flash or Future Flash?

>>83126148

Yeah, and? It was pretty cool moment. You're never going to get 1:1 re-enactment of CoIE Barry moment.

>>83127555
>>83128311
by the end of the show theres going to be like 8 barrys in that one moment in time arent there?

>>83135285
But the particle accelerator exploded anyway to give him his powers. Eobard just took the identity of Wells and made it happen 5 years in advance.

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>all I ever wanted for you is you to be happy
>unless I'm not happy
>NOW can we go back to shitty Earth 2? All my off-screen friends are there!

>>83135445
To be fair, she didn't say "com back with me dad" She was going back by herself.

Fucking stupid writers made him go back with her.

The fuck you guys are talking about. Nothing is gonna change because Barry didn't change his timeline, but the one he 'teleported' himself into. There is no past, there are just other timelines with different time. He now just needs to get back to his timeline, nothing's gonna change

This is why I like Marvel's timeline. You changed time? No, you made a new earth.

>>83128311
>>83135375
>>83127555
>barry ends up as the one to kill his mom at the end of next season

>>83130421
>kill Zoom
>hundreds maybe even thousands of lives saved

yeah I don't think it's that bad

>>83135324
Barry Allen's time fuckery must be sanctioned by the Oculus - and be part of the TRUE timeline.

>>83135445
But she still has to come back for that 'I have superpowers, we can't be together' drama with Wally

>>83125011
How much you want to bet that the 4-part crossover next season will be the CW's version of Crisis, with Barry preventing himself from stopping his mother's death resulting in a new world where Supergirl is on the same Earth and Felicity was never born

this will never happen and all it's going to do is bring Kara to Earth Prime and make Felicity the new Canary

>>83135445
It's kind of weird she said she wanted to go back to Earth 2 after agreeing to a plan that relied on stopping Zoom by trapping him on Earth 2 again

>>83130421
>Barry doesn't usually do that sort of thing
Except for this whole fucking season

>>83128661
My question is how many episodes will it last and will other shows go along or continue the regular timeline.

>>83126033
>Rip! We're in an inescapable deathtrap! How do we get out of this?

>Well, after we get out of this, we use the Waverider to go back in time and set up the things we need!

>Like what?

>Like....THIS KEY!!!

>Excellent! I'm going to leave myself....MY HEAT GUN!

just read DC Rebirth #1 if you want good Flash content you cucks

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Eventually that night at his old house is going to turn out like that family guy episode where they go back to the pilot

>how to save the show
Just make Cavanagh an older Barry so you can keep him way longer on the show.

>the real Jay is revealed
>does absolutely fucking nothing
Cool thanks show

>>83137036
this tbqh, it was beautiful

After the Brutal murder of my Mother and Father, I Barry Allen who ranges from the fastest to the Fourth fastest human on Earth has gone back into time to the night it all started. But doing so meant I'am now being hunted by the Time Master and the speed force ghosts. To protect my new time I must travel to the future and kill Felicity Smoak the great grandmother of the founder of the Time Masters.

This season felt kind of pointless, but not nearly as pointless as Arrow Season 3, so we're still ahead of the curve I guess?

>>83137072
Everytime RF goes to kill Nora he is met with dozens of Barry's, all trying to stop him/each other.

Zoom when the wraiths took him with his dying face and ripped mask looked a lot like the time wraith that went after Barry. You think that the wraiths may have turned Zoom into another wraith and that was what went after Barry?

>>83130421
the flash killed like six people over the course of season 2 (atom smasher, sand guy, etc.)

i was more surprised that people were shocked that he was planning to kill zoom.

>>83135354

End of Season 1 Flash, so essentially end of Season 3 Flash that stops end of Season 2 Flash.

>the Jay costume
I feel like if you combined both Hunters and it, itd look great but right now they dont have the ascending lightning bolt which sucks and JWS needs to start loaing a bit of weight. Hopwfully he does for S3

Black Flash was sick tho

>>83138251
He turned into the Black Flash

>>83135354
That's probably S3 Flash.

>>83138525
>Back in season one, a lot of us that Flash was from a timeline where Flashpoint happened
>Flashpoint happens next season
>We see Barry go back again, this time to stop his past self
Those fuckers planed this, didn't they? They half-ass the story this season, because season three will be their grand finale.

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>>83138465
yeah, but other than that holy shit did the FX suck. I don't know if it's just me not watching for a while but the effects just looked terrible save the Black Flash face reveal.

And I just realized what these Time Remnants reminded me of. Bart's Time Scouts. I mean I doubt that these were what the showrunners were going for but hey, at least you can sorta say it was in the comics

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>Dr Allen, I'm CCPD

>>83125011
They ran out of people who didn't know Barry's secret identity, so they need to reboot the whole universe if they want to keep revealing his identity every episode.

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>>83125425
If ONLY. I would seriously love to believe this were true but it would piss off a SHIT ton of people.

Pics of Jay in costume?
I know the lightning bolt is vloser to his first appearance as opposed to the half one that aacends

>>83138617
But then what about the Reverse? Will he actually try to stop Barry instead?

>>83128661
But then what about Thawne?

>>83125425
Yeah. Everything is being semi-rebooted.
Things from the old continuity will be mixed with the new continuity. Both continuities will exist and both will be true but they will take this opportunity to give themselves a new starting point without losing everything they've built up prior.

The Legends of Tomorrow have hinted at this as well. Hinting at Crisis on Infinite Earths, and the idea of the JSA existing.
We'll have the JSA with Jay Garrick, and the Flash and the precursors the Justice League with Barry, Arrow, & co.

>>83125011
>so does this mean everything we have seen in the past 2 seasons of flash does not exist?
No it will no doubt still be relevant somehow. They'll tie it together somehow. Flashpoint did after all.
>why we doing flashpoint already? why even at all..
The idea behind Flashpoint is and remains good. DC's idea of forcing Flashpoint to reboot all of DC into the New 52 instead of just a Flash team book is what was bad. Not the idea of Flashpoint itself.
Flashpoint is a story that plays on both the strengths and the weaknesses of the Flash. Both as a person and as far as the limitations and extents of his powers are concerned.
It shows what the Flash can be willing to do, what he is not willing to do. It shows us amazing feats he is able to do as well as feats he falls short of being able to accomplish in spite of his powers.

So no Wally West Blackflash then?

>>83135629

That's honestly the cleanest way to do time travel stories.

I actually really like what they managed to do with Zoom in the end. You can critique the path there, but by the end of it all he really got into his own.
He had reasons for wanting to see another one as himself and did everything he could to make/prove that Barry would end up just like himself. While still staying the crazy and petty mad man that wants to fuel chaos and conquer.

I don't really know what to say about Zoom in the previous episodes. But I really felt it in the finale. I like it.

>>83138617

That's giving them way too much credit, anon.

>>83139289
Really will probably get his powers after the timeline is fixed.

Now that Flash is faster than in season one. Reverse Flash will be faster than in season one too, right?

>>83135661
Eobard will just watch and laugh.

>>83125502
If he even has powers this season. Thane has already killed wells and is now defeated. So the particle accelerator explosion may not even happen. No wells, no thawne, no metas. What's the point.

>>83126126
But Barry cucks Jimmy.
This flashpoint will turn Jimmy and the Wests ginger.

I just hope this will be in season 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ1lqBzw7c4

>>83126148
He did save the multiverse, but it was treated like an afterthought so it lost all importance.

>>83126351
He's a pretty big guy.

>>83135661
>>83135375
>>83135354
>>83135324
>>83134839
Eight Flashes walk into a room.
"So, how was your Earth?"
"Mine had Killer Frost, and we chilled."
"I killed all of them. It was me, Barry."
"Moooooom!"

And that's how Flashpoint was born, kids.

>>83140076
I imagine they would use some twisted, drunk version of Robert Queen instead of Thomas, falling from the top of Queen mansion. That would be fun to watch.

>>83135324
Time Masters are all dead man.

These time remnants are bullshit.

When did barry get his? He didn't create a time breach, he just showed up. But where did he how up from? The guy that got killed should've gone back instead of dying or the guy that lived should've instead.

Shit makes no sense.

>>83140914
He traveled back in time one second.

>>83140076
they should cancel the DC-CU and give their budget to the tv shows

>>83140922
Yeah, and then the new dude lasted more than one second.

It's just pulling things out of their ass, because the 20-year jump at the end didn't allow the other flashes to live.

They just pull any rule they want and never enforce it again.

>>83140960
>>83140922
>>83140914
>>83140907
The time masters are part of LoT - they won't bring it here, because for all intents and purposes, the time masters were wiped out before they even existed.

How does all of this tie together? Speedforce.

Time Remnants? Who cares, it's the speedforce.
Jesse waking up from coma? Who cares, it's the speedforce.
Barry going back in time and shitting on all that he agreed not to do? Speedforce.


It's like watching a really bad fanfic show, but in this case, i know the comic is as abhorrent and idiotic at times as the show.

>Henry Allen - Hey, Garrick is my mother's maiden name
>Jay Garrick - I'm the flash

I think i'm not the only one who noticed the cheapassery they did with pulling Henry into the mask. I called it the moment he was revealed, but of course it has to be an EARTH FUCKING THREE DOPPLEGANGER.
I wonder which Earth Kara is from then. Earth K?

>>83141021
>Time Remnants? Who cares, it's the speedforce.
>Jesse waking up from coma? Who cares, it's the speedforce.
>Barry going back in time and shitting on all that he agreed not to do? Speedforce.

Speedforce as a physics hole-covering-paste is fine by me, but using it to cover writing holes is bullshit and weak, especially when they show two different rule sets in the same 10 minute episode.

>>83141055
>>83141021
Speedforce, ain't gotta explain shit.

It's plotkai no jutsu, or asspull no jutsu. That's how low they went with this plot device.

They write themselves in the corner? Just time travel something something speedforce something something Iris whines something something reverse flash something something speedforce something something.

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anyone defending time remnants is a cuck

>>83141082
See, this is what I meant.

It's a speed mirage at best. But then it shouldn't have a conscience.

>>83140914
you know how, every time in the past, right before Barry time travelled he looked to the side and saw a copy of him running next to him, and when he time travelled back he would be that copy?

Well it turns out that if at that point you then choose not to time travel, future you still emerges, with a thick rod of paradox shoved up his ass because you failed to make a stable time loop. That's a time remnant. and wraiths hate those things.

>>83141114
>>83141082
No no no, this is why they showed the Flash back action.

Both have timeline awareness and conciousness, but since he travelled back one moment or a few, the other Barry realised he has to do fuck all.

This is why the Barry that died had time wraiths after him, but they left other Barry untouched - because he didn't do that. It was his future self.

It's not a speed mirage, just a really really forced, badly written asspull of a kind.

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Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?

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>mfw DCEU Flashpoint is gonna have Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Murderbat and Maggy as the Joker with Momoa fighting against Wonderskelington

mildly hyped desu

>>83141158
Ye, who enters here, leave your hopes and dreams. It's only speedforce now.

So is Gotham getting rebooted?

Just think of this as training for when Marvel House of M's the shit out of their cinematic universe to drag over the Sony properties.

>>83141118
So it showed up because he decided to jump back, but then he decided not to jump back?

That makes no sense because it ignores that all the decisions happen before a time-jump, so speedforce doesn't even come into question.

>>83141151
>It's not a speed mirage, just a really really forced, badly written asspull of a kind.
This is what I mean. It's closest to a speed mirage, but ignores all the established rules. It's bullshit.

I fucking hated flashpoint certain things in it aside, why try to adapt a low budget version of it with even less characters and a actual mandate on what they can and cannot use?

>>83141208
What was the matter with flashpoint? I only ever saw the animated movie and thought it was okay.

Show goes back to status quo
>MUH STATUS QUO BULLSHIT

Show wrecks shit up
>BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING STATUS QUO?

You want the same story 100 times.

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>>83141258
>You want the same story 100 times.
>/co/ comics and cartoons

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>>83125011
Who else here didn't liked the real Jay Garrick ?
He has no helmet and I prefered the first costume

Also, Black Flash confirmed ?

>>83141226
Barry can't get to have a nice timeline, and have his mother alive.
He has to choose one.

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Someone please refresh my memory; Blue lightning is a direct effect of Velocity abuse and not because of disintegrating levels of speed right? Basically I was thinking Remnant Barry's lightning should have shifted since he was going fast enough to disintegrate, Is this incorrect?

>>83141380
I know the story, I'm asking why everyone seems to think it's so shit. My thoughts is that the comics version sucked for some reason or another.

>>83141388
i think disintegration was something to do with the device he was spinning around

So what was the deal with the speedforce dementors? Was that something from the comics, or did they just pull that out of their ass as a convenient Deus Ex Machina

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>>83141427
A point about Flashpoint is that its generally a timeline where everything went wrong.
Atlantis got a genocidal king, and actually invaded the surface world.
Amazons got in touch with their inner neck snappers and invaded mens world.
Superman didn't get a normal childhood, and is either a murderhobo or a government imprisoned experiment for cloning.
The early parts of the Justice League die to the various Justice League space invaders, because they are too few to actually deal with them. Leaving behind 2-3 butthurt members who is scarred for life.
Its also a joke on the WW2 comics, where a lot of things in the timeline starts going wrong from that point.

Then there is the mirror world, where no Speedforce means Justice League is just Hal Jordan + sidekicks, and Hal dies horribly.

>>83141522
>Superman didn't get a normal childhood, and is a murderhobo

apparently Flashpoint already happened in the DCEU.

>>83141258

They literally undid all of Barry's character development over the past 2 seasons for the sake of a cliffhanger. The entire arc Barry had over the first seasons was just thrown into the garbage can so he can whine about his dead mom again.

That's bad writing no matter how you want to slice it. I thought the S2 was just going to be crushingly lame with the hilariously forced eleventh-hour world-ending MacGuffin and a final battle consisting of two guys running in circles on a metal doughnut before Deus Ex Dementors ate the bad guy, but it went one step father and actually did retroactive damage to the first season.

>>83141258
No, we wanted growth. We've got the opposite of growth.

Now for another season of Iris cucking Barry.

Okay, this was one of the worst episodes to date
>awesome character developement 2 episodes ago? Fuck that
>Time Remnant! It's Speedforce, I ain't gotta explain shit
>Shittily explained death of Zoom by Time Wraths, which was awkwardly set up in one short scene before
>Here's the real Jay Garrick oh nvm he doesn't do shit lol
>LET ME RACE HIM AND DESTROY THE MULTIVERSE YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES WAH WAH
>Zooms speech in the beginning of Barry needing to RELEASE HIS ANGER!!! Holy shit, that was cringe
Please tell me the next villain is going to be Grodd or Eobard, I can't take something like this for another season.

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So who's the big bad next season?

Did Barry not realise he literally undone everything in terms of character progression this season? We'll be back to fucking Vibe-less Cisco as well.

>>83141837
I'm fine with anyone as long as it isn't Zoom and he isn't played by Teddy Sears.

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>>83141837
>big bad next season?

>>83141675

he lost both his parents to some maniacs who targetted specially him because he is the Flash, meanwhile in earth 2, not only did he have both parents but was married to Iris and no maniacs were targetting him, its possible this could happen in this earth.

>>83141812
Grodd was back in S2 after Flash Back, as Harry mentions a 2 Foot gorilla being found easier than Jesse.

That line wasn't for throwaway.

>>83141837
NO. Fuck No. Not more annoying Carlos moments. PLEASE NO.

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>>83141890
>hating Cisco

>>83141935
I am not hating Cisco you manchild.
I'm hating his insecure Magic School Bus Carlos moments.

The character grew in the last season, hell, both, and now we're back to Hartley's Cisco. The insecure Cisco, the one who didn't move onto Snartette yet.

>>83141890
I mean the main villain. Of course Grodd was featured, there was an entire episode dedicated to him, but same counts for King Shark and he sure as hell wasn't the main villain (as awesome as that would have been).

>>83135834
I hope we get full on speedster Wally West and Jesse Quick by mid-season 3 at latest.

I guess this is what you get by putting shit relationship drama CW writers handling sci-fi concepts like time-travel.

Fucking hell, how did SHIELD manage to be so much better than this this season.

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speedforce religious flash when ?

>>83142290
Well, for starters, they didn't repeat last season's plot. Second, they don't have Felicity.
Third, it's the god damn Flash, i was waiting for them to jump the shark with timetravel since day 1. This is expect, but still fucking disappointing.

>>83142375
>Second, they don't have Felicity
Neither had this season. Guys, felicity is a bad character, but it's time to start realizing that she isn't the only thing destroying the CW-verse. The Flash managed to run its second season into the ground all by itself and Arrow was never good in the first place.

>>83142290

At least Hive was an actual villain with motivations I could understand and had an appropriate level of physical threat.

And they actually set up the world-ending superweapon over the last few episodes instead of basically introducing it in the very last episode for no fucking reason.

>>83142375

>Well, for starters, they didn't repeat last season's plot

I mean they kind of did. It's not that different from Jaiying's Terrigan Mists plan.

>>83141675
>That's bad writing no matter how you want to slice it.

No it isn't.

And who says we lost that development? Wellsobard went back, changed the past, still alive in the new timeline he created. And Barry not being able to come to terms with the tragedies he faces making him a subpar Flash IS a plot point, it was the entire point of The Runaway Dinosaur that if he let his grief get to him he would do some serious shit.

And again, you say bad writing is simply writing that takes you out of your comfort zone. That says you would prefer each show to be meandering along the same path. How many shows do you know that have dealt with an entire 2 years of progress being whacked?

You're the enemy of innovation in storytelling. You want the same old story told with a new lick of paint.

Anyways status quo will be back by episode 6 so who even cares.

Where's the fucking mega?

>>83141675
It's not about his mother, how can people not get that?

>>83142375
I'm the guy that you're replying to, but still:
Flash doesn't have felicity.
SHIELD did kind of repeat their season.

It was still a lot better than this. Maybe because they are less crazy with the Sci-fi shit, plot-wise, and stick to their spy-double-triple-crossing-shit. Either that or they write the finales before the rest of the show and build towards it.

This season of Flash made it seem like they only wrote each episode 1 week before and throw every time-travel shtick at it.

>>83142423
Zoom also had a physical threat. It's just that they managed to start ass-pulling so early, that they released all tension because we knew an ass-pull was incoming.

>I mean they kind of did. It's not that different from Jaiying's Terrigan Mists plan.
Yeah, it was villain convinces daisy to join him/her and the guy we thought was the villain was the ally all along. Yet they made it fucking work because every bad thing people complain from SHIELD they manage to subvert:
Daisy sucked -> Daisy started getting her ass beat -> Daisy started Kicking Ass
Show has too many copies of Ward -> each one dies
Lincoln is annoying as fuck -> Lincoln dies

The only ting they couldn't avoid was killing Ward for good. And even still there's ways they can bring him back.


What the fuck guys, Flash was DC's only decent property, and it's getting its ass beat by Marvel's worst.

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>>83142443
So, how is it going here?

>>83142423
>>83142422
My point about Felicity stands, but not exactly how you think i meant it. I mean that the writers deal out Felicity-esque plotlines and development. Bad practices catch on. It's the same network.

And about the repetition of the plot:
You can only go "so original" in anything, especially capeshit. We went from Wellsobard wanting to go home into the future with Barry's help to DESTROYING THE MULTIVERSE SAVE ONE PLANET, WITH THE HELP OF BARRY.

I think you can understand that it's too much of the same shit, to call it different.

>have wally and Jessie hit by the dark matter wave
>for nothing

god i hate how this show feels like its being made up as it goes along

>Grodd confirmed villain for next season
>instead it's just Flashpoint Grodd, not the one we've seen who has been slowly taking over Gorilla City in an effort to get back to his earth to fight Flash
I feel like that's really going to cheapen it.

>>83142550
>Wally will time travel back in time to get Barry home, with Cisco helping him.

Mark my words, they'll pull the thing with how RevFlash was killed, but need the vibe mcguffin to pull himself back.

Fucking fuck fuck i'm mad.

>>83142550
Red Herring probably.

Flashpoint caught everyone off guard. Everyone knew it was FlashDad under the mask, everyone knew Barry would find a way to beat Zoom. Nobody saw that stinger coming.

>>83142496

>The only thing they couldn't avoid was killing Ward for good

Ward is done dude. They can't keep him around anymore without getting into the Arvin Sloane Alias problem, where this character keeps coming back for no reason and the excuses to bring him back become worse and worse.

Just cut the cord. His arc was interesting, and they tied it off as well as can be expected.

>>83142550

The time travel rules make less and less sense with each episode.

They make less sense then fucking Looper, and that's a movie about characters who actually have no idea how time travel works and are making it up as they go along.

>>83141388
were there any goofy set shots of zoom?

>>83140072
God I hope not, there's nothing more aesthetically awful than black gingers.

>entire plan is to knock Zoom back through a rift
>"WE ALL AGREED TO NOT OPEN RIFTS ANYMORE ONCE WE TOSS ZOOM BACK"
>everyone somehow forgetting Zoom can open his own rifts
>he's done this multiple times, did it this episode to get back, and they've all talked about how he can do it
How are the writers this fucking stupid? Did they just forget or did they not give a fuck? Why not just have them repeat the plan from a few episodes ago with the sound frequency disabling him and he just runs off back to E2 with Joe? You get the same story beats but this time it doesn't make everyone look like fucking idiots.

>>83142641
>The only thing they couldn't avoid was killing Ward for good
I know, they couldn't avoid it. There's no non-asspull way of bringing him back. But they did it, instead of pulling something idiotic. This was a good thing, even if the character and the actor were great.

>>83141869
Come on, being played by Teddy Sears was the only good thing about Zoom.

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>>83141675
sup vash

>Pleased to meet you, ladies and gentleman! I'm a self-styled film nerd and all around geek, trying to make my name in the world. I'm constantly part of some section of geek culture, whether reading novels or graphic novels, playing video games, watching television, or just going on the internet. I'm a Long Islander, which is sort of like being the poor man's New Yorker, but I try my best to not live up to our bad reputation. I'm an extremely sarcastic person, as it runs in the blood, but I also try to be incredibly positive. My dream job is to become a film critic, online or in paper, so expect me to babble on about film for a good long while

>I am bisexual, and while I prefer men, I do like women almost as much. It's not a big deal for me.

>>83142680
Did they know he could manually open them?

>>83142820
Yeah, how else had he shown up before after they closed ALL the breaches?

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>>83142709
Fuck that.
>When he was playing the hero he was incredibly bland when he was supposed to be likeable so that we would feel the betrayal more
>When he was playing the villain he was balancing between blandness and sometimes some Nicolas Cage level of bad overacting. Pic related.
Also, tell me his speech about
>letting go to the dark side Barry!
at the beginning of this episode wasn't terrible.
The only good thing about Zoom were Tony Todd and the costume.

>>83142867
Cisco opened one and never closer it.

>>83142890
>Implying the best villain flavors aren't ham and cheese.

>>83142820
Yea. They've mentioned how Zoom can run so fast he can traverse the rifts. He even said to their face when they were confused why he wasn't unconscious during the sound frequency episode.

>>83142867
>>83142820
>>83142680
I think this whole sequence of them going rogue was a last minute rewrite, i mean how the fuck do they forget that he can bash open Rifts?

Unless of course, they sealed them. Because zoom can only open... open open Rifts. Probably.

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>>83130421
Zoom was a clear threat to both Earths (as Barry knew from Cisco's vibes) AND, as it turns out, the ENTIRE FUCKING MULTIVERSE (why Wells didn't tell everyone what Zoom's machine could do sooner is beyond me). That and time and again Zoom had threatened (and even at a few points acted on those threat) to hurt his family and friends (he kidnapped Wally and Caitlin, he killed Henry). Zoom was an unrepenting, all-powerful psychopath (hell, he was a psychopathic mass-murderer even BEFORE he got his powers). Barry wanting to kill him isn't surprising, and he really should have gone through with it. He already killed pettier criminals that were much less of a threat, but suddenly because it's the big bad of the season everyone goes DON'T DO IT BARRY OR YOU'LL BE JUST LIKE HIM (which is ALWAYS bullshit, shooting a Nazi doesn't make you go Heil Hitler!, you are what you eat, not what you kill)

I have to say, watching Kuuga alongside Flash season 2 was a refreshing breath of sanity
>No forced drama
>Hero doesn't hesitate to kill his (irredeemable literal monster) enemies
>Hero doesn't hesitate to tell EVERYONE about his powers and everyone accept him and support him as best they can (including the police)
>No romance bullshit

>>83142890
>>83142935
I myself prefer Skub levels of Villain taste.

>>83142935
If you do it right. As bad as Arrow is, Neil McDonough is definitly doing it right. This guy is making me feel second-hand embarassment.

>>83142890

I want to see this scene, but without the special effects included.

>>83141837
Big bad next season is obviously Barry

>>83143086
>next season is obviously Barry
Well, as a few posters above said, 8 Flashes walk into a room...

"It was you, Barry, you killed your own mother."

>Thawne will probably return

This is all I ever wanted

>>83130421
>>83130848
there is that kid who died because of aging too.

>>83143166
I wanted Thawne back too, but I wish he'd met Zoom. That would've been amazing.

>>83125011

Why do people think that he erased anything? He's just going to realize he was wrong (again) and he'll go back and allow his mom to die again.

Do you honestly expect his mom to join the cast and sit in Star labs telling him to run faster?

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>no atlantis
>no amazones
>no batdad of murder
>no ayy kal el

what is the point?

>>83140960
>They just pull any rule they want and never enforce it again

Welcome to comics.

>>83143240
Only if Thawne whooped his ass in a matter of seconds.

>>83143274
Oh god, it's gonna be a league of assassins vs. Hive war, isn't it?
Old Ollie instead of Batdad or Ollie's dad, inprisoned Kara. Eh.

>>83143351
Shit comics. I don't mind if they do it between seasons, but within the same episode is too much.

>>83143240
Problem is Power levels.

Zoom was like 4 times faster than Barry at some point, and Barry was faster than Thawne.

>>83143393
And? Lord knows they could bullshit something up to make him faster. And that's if they bothered to explain it at all.

>>83143393
Wellseobard could have stomped Zoom.

Bravo, you figured it out

Almost

>>83126484
What if he has to go back in time dressed in yellow to kill his mother to correct that mistake?

>>83142820
They mention it earlier in the episode.

>>83143565
>During the planning phases of the next season, the Flash writers room toyed around with the idea, that the Speedforce bitch-slaps Barry across the face with a new suit, telling him he needs to set things right. Then, Barry would put the yellow suit on, declare "Now I am Zoom" and morph into him.

>>83133806
Cuz Jay looks like his dad?

I wonder if they will keep the names of Earth 2 and Earth 3, even though clearly the whole twist was that they switched them. Since it's infinite earths and not a set number like 52, the names are probably not the actual order, but just arbitrary.

This actually makes me even more confused about the JSA in LoT S2

>>83133806
You mean Hunter Zolomon.

>>83139975

What are you talking about? Wells isn't dead in the new timeline.

Thawne originally kills Wells and assumes his identity AFTER he kills Barry's mom, and becomes stranded in the past for a good while.

>>83126108

I don't think it was so much his speed as it was because of the energy feedback from countering the machine.

>>83137162
My problem is that zoom made it seem like it was way too confusing when they introduced a third earth with gorilla grodd and had battery go to supergirls earth

>>83141208
>why try to adapt
They probably won't. The original Flashpoint wasn't supposed to be anything like how it ended up being. And was just meant to lead up to a Flash team book.

I am sure we're going to see the general idea of Flashpoint, but for numerous reasons see a very different execution and resolution.

>>83143676
>This actually makes me even more confused about the JSA in LoT S2
I could be wrong, but I really think the JSA of LoT are actually the JSA of Earth 1.
But the JSA never existed in Earth 1 you say, and sure. But I am betting this finale changed all that.

>>83142973
Barry's intentions were that of revenge mostly. He risking the multiverse to settle a score (at first).

>>83143937
My guess before the real E2 was shown in today's episode was that the JSA existed in E1, but was secret, either a government secret or meta-universal/Monitor level secret.

Now I my guess is more towards them originally just being the superhero team of E3, but something (Maybe Jay's abduction by Zoom) turned them into a force protecting the multiverse, and S2 will have a multiverse(Multiversity?) theme.

so is there really no way to have the atlanteans,amazonians,superman and batman?
also,that whole giant explosion thing at the end of flashpoint

>>83126202
So easy it's dumb. Start Arrow post-Flashpoint with the changes already there, but no one mentioning it. Like, Canary in the team like nothing happened.

On Flash you see the actual Flashpoint event, 3 - 5 episodes, and when everything's fixed we timeskip to the present. Just in time for the 4-part Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover.

>>83140076
When they tried to give Barry his powers back a few episodes ago all i could think about was this scene and how badly i wanted it to play out just like this. Was sad they wasted an opportunity for such a great scene.

I guess there's hope they'll do it for S3 if they do flashpoint, but i doubt it, i think Barry will just keep his powers in this flashpoint.

Anyone else find it a little weird or lame how they pretty much turned Zoom into Owlman?

>>83145114
Even if they could use those charaters, do you really think they could just introduce them out of nowhere next season and have it be meaningful in any way. CW-Barry doesn't know any of them. They're not his friends he needs to find/keep from fucking shit up. They'd be total strangers.

>>83133886
at the end of that episode it didnt seem like he was dead it seemed like if anything he had just lost his powers and reverted back to his age of 18

>>83145814
>how they pretty much turned Zoom into Owlman?
Owlman? As in, New 52 Owlman? Because both seemed equally as crazy.

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>>83146538
As in "it doesn't matter" multiverse nuke Owlman

>>83146797
Ah yeah fair enough. Nearly forgot about the animated version which was pretty cool.

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dag'gum!

>>83148168
The fuck kinda tryhard shit is this?

>>83148348
ur mum m8

>>83138684
FUCK I was thinking that yesterday

>>83143393
Barry wasnt faster than thawne

>>83142316
Hoping never

>>83142973
To be fair Grongis are not human so it's okay to kill them.

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>>83141319
>He has no helmet and I prefered the first costume
Did you not even try to watch the episode, shit for brains?

>>83149416

Is it me or does he look like an older Hunter and it actually makes sense?

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>>83149416

>>83125011
Finally watch it. Much better than season 1 finale. The season as a whole was as good as S1 but the finale did a great job of wrapping it up. Finally get the old tv flash actor in the suit and holy crap did he look awesome in it. Far better than Zoom.

Here's hoping that time dickery takes away some of the bad love stories. I'm ok with some but they really force them...cause it's the CW

>>83149416
I preferred the suit Hunter wore and was really excited to see JWS in it. This is basically just a recolored version of Barry's suit with a new emblem and helmet instead of a mask.

Still, things have come full circle for me. Back when the CW series first announced Shipp's involvement, I did a rough edit of a photo of him with Jay's shirt and helmet edited on and posted it on his Facebook. He shared the photo back then, even though it was soon revealed that he was playing Barry's dad. This reveal made my day.

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>>83149729
I kinda wish they used modern E2 Jay outfit for Zoom Jay and more classic one for Flashdad.

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>>83130421
You gotta do, what you gotta do. Especially when you murder almost everyone you meet from Earth-2 anyway

>>83150997
>classic one

that is literally the smallville jay costume

>>83128661
This. There's zero chance of them permanently erasing 6 seasons worth of continuity from Flash, Arrow, and legends. They might shuffle the deck a little bit to set up future stories they want to do but this is TV not comics. You can't just erase shit.

>>83151074
I know. I just think it,and Zoom Jay's jacket look better than Flashdad jacket

>>83149416
>>83149729
how does he unzip this?

>>83151267
He doesn't. He vibrates in and out of it.
Lightning is probably fixed on one side and buttons to the other

>>83143212
That was a shame.

>>83151361
the bolt IS the zipper.

>>83143274
Citizen Cold!

But.. where did Jay's costume come from?

>>83151533
How have you not learned yet that the answer to all plotholes is Speedforce?

>>83151005
Would he technically need to be in uniform to have lethal force authorization? Or at least have a badge on him?

>>83142196
Well, they have to kill Barry by the time movie drops, so in the next few years for sure.

>>83151415
I'm not sure why this made me laugh, but it did.

I lost my shit for Real Jay Garrick.
I love him and I love the entire JSA.

Honestly I just love badass old people.

They made Jay Garrick the doppleganger GRANDPA OF THE FLASH FAMILY and I think that's really charming. I think the pecs on the 'real jay garrick' suit look a little weird - I honestly like the Hunter version better, but I was happy to see GRANDPA JAY.

him wearing Zolomon's hat was wtf tho

>>83152542
Yeah, i thought trata he would say that he has one similar or something liked that. Not the I'll use the helmet ok the father of a fucking sociopath which give hope to the people of E2

>>83127221
I'm giving it another season but I'm out on every other network/cable Fall comic-inspired show (bar Fear the Walking Dead and Preacher). Been a shitty several months for the network/cable shows imo.

>>83143652
Season 3 script leak:
old Barry to young Barry:
"and then I realized... I am my own Reverse, Flash "

>>83143393
>Barry was faster than Thawne

The Eobard that Barry beat was a complete newfag. Wellsobard on the other hand was a fucking rapemachine.

In fact since the timeline/future proves that Barry and Thawne will be equals forever, it always means that whoever Barry is stronger than, Thawne must be stronger than as well.

>>83130421
I mean he killed that one kid by aging him to death. He wasn't evil that evil either.

He also personally locked people up without any sort of due process in tiny five foot cells, where they had no way to contact any family or friends or have any possibility of seeing a lawyer. Some of the people he locked up didn't even have fucking super powers like the Pied Piper.


Barry is kind of a fucking psychopath.

>>83130421

Zoom flat out stated that he's going to murder the entire multiverse.

That's pretty clear defense.

>>83130421

The funny thing is that Arrow tortures himself over killing people these days way more than Barry. Barry gets over it in half-a-day.

>>83143373
>they literally just use green arrow as a proxy because they couldn't get the rights to Batman and shove him into countless Batman storylines

this is pretty pathetic desu

>>83130421

I'd say it's even less humane to trap someone in a box that's not even big enough to lay in, and hide them from the world.

Has anyone really brought up how fucked that is? What do they do all day? How do they use the bathroom? How often do they shower?

>>83149416
I've waited literally 15 years to see John Wesley Shipp wear that helmet.

>>83154922
Yeah that shit bothered me too.

Some of the people he locked in there were just petty crooks. They don't get any due process or anything Flash just abducts them and stuffs them in his personal prison.

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>>83149416
His teeth are so white and perfect, his whole damn everything is so perfect

>Barry has no problem killing himself but won't kill Zoom

>>83155028
His self-loathing is just that strong

>>83154922
>>83154977
I didn't like it either, but Iron Heights has a metahuman wing now. No need for the pipeline except for the occasional rare case.

>>83149416
The helmet is not his own, dipshit

>>83135629
> Infinite Earths!
Wait...no.

>>83154922

I think now it's just a holding cell until they can send them to Iron Heights.

>This will undo all the past 2 seasons!
Barry has time travelled twice and both times he fucked up the timeline. First when Iris loved him and second when he went to talk to Eobard. Those were different timelines so any progression made is carried over.

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>>83154922
>Zoom
>having rights
But yeah, for everyone else it was fucked up. We know Cisco was feeding them pretty much whatever they asked for but as for showering and bathroom, it was never covered.

We can't even assume that there's a little hole in there for them to pop into, because won't that breach whatever thing is preventing them from using their abilities? Any thing like that would be especially risky for metas like that gas guy

Maybe Cisco mists them or something with a scent purifier

>>83155294
They can make a buffer chamber like in a space station.

Poop in there and only clean when he's not there.

Although with these writers, they'll fuck it up.

>>83154720
I think the best part is that literally every member of the team, and the Captain of the Police are complicit in this complete lack of due process. That's fucking insane.

>>83155346
Oh right. The cells DO rotate so everyone gets to poop and piss in the hall or whatever and get back in their cells? I imagine S.T.A.R. Labs has more of whatever they made the pipeline out of to make a section like that

>>83155447
I think the bigger question is, if these cells are so fucking powerful they can hold speedsters, why is the rest of the building's security so shitty? Seriously, Zoom just walked in whenever he fucking felt like it. This is a serious problem.

>>83155483
Human error is always the security bottleneck.

Can't protect against stupid.

>>83155498
It's like they don't even try, though. How many regular people have just shown up in the command center and surprised the fuck out of them? There is absolutely no reason to keep letting this happen.

>>83155535
Stupid here being the writers.

Bonus points for their main computer-station facing the away from of the door, too, so they can be stabbed in the back when lolsometa quipping about how everyone can enter.

>>83155535
The funniest thing, though, was early in the season.
>okay, we really beefed up security now
>hey guys it's me, Jay Garrick, how's it hanging?

>>83155483
The cells in the pipeline were already designed to block and contain shit like dark matter and whatever else would come spewing out of the Particle Acelerator when it was activated, the rest of the building presumably was not.

I can't imagine that the team even has enough money to make good advancements to the building security considering they don't make or do anything all day and are pretty much the only people working there.

No one wants to be connected to S.T.A.R. Labs in any wahy after the explosion and the money they do have that Barry inherited from Wells/Thawne is probably barely keeping the lights on

>>83154827
In all fairness Barry was planning on killing Zoom before his plan was revealed, he only knew the race would help Zoom some way but not kill every other universe.

>>83126202

They'll either pull some bullshit, saying that Barry traveled back in time AND to a different universe, OR, if they want to do something really fun, have the first 5 episodes or so of each show be crossovers or something and hammer it out in 10 episodes split between each show.

>>83145718
>Canary
Will she have meta powers like Black Siren?

>>83142587
Grodd of War Grodd was based as fuck tho

>>83156584
What the fuck is a "Time Remnant"

Why would you includes that shit as a major plot point of the final when it's been used in maybe one other episode before.

I would have been fine just having Barry on the last scene with Iris, looking back at his friends, then going back to stop the Deus Ex Machina thingy and "dying". Insert a cliffhanger and ends the season.

>>83154962
No you haven't. I bet you never even watched the 90's Flash show. And even if you did, you didn't go "damn I hope this guy gets to play Jay Garrick and wear his helmet in a future Flash series!"

Hell, for all I know you probably weren't even born 15 years ago.

>>83149729
I wish he had the proper loghtning bolt although thats is Jays first appearance logo

>>83158565
I am assuming you quoted my post by mistake.

Anyhow they covered Time Remnants multiple times in regards to Eobard Thawne, did so again when Zolomon killed himself, and did so again with Flash in regards to time travelling, and did so once more now in the finale.

Also, if the cliffhanger had been Barry dying then it would be really awkward to set up Flashpoint. And I actually believe in Flashpoint this time around since it doesn't have to and won't lead into the New 52. Instead they can use it to set up the JSA and introduce Supergirl and existence of Superman and all kinds of other good stuff. Perhaps even fix Arrow.

I'm not dropping Flash or anything, but this season reached insane levels of bullshit mighty fast.

The writing was never too good, but this is just atrocious.

I mean... The whole thing about Zoom being Jay makes ZERO FUCKING SENSE. I mean
> And then I became bored of being a hero and... became Flash!
So how did it work exactly?
> Zoom: You, evil metahuman under my command, go and do this evil task!
> Jay: Not so fast, evil metahuman, I shall stop you!
Sounds productive!
> OH HE WAS CRAZY
Ok, great character development right there, he was crazy! No need to establish credible motives for your characters if you can just go LOL RANDOM LOL.

Watch the scene when Fake-Jay accuses Wells of Earth-2 for creating all those metas, and tell me they had this "reveal" planned from the start.

Then, let's see. Hunter Zolomon spent his life in a foster home, then killed some people, then spent life in prison, then died.

That made him a SUPREME BIOCHEMIST, who developed freaking Velocity-9. And also GRAND ENGINEER who created a device that can... DESTROY THE MULTIVERSE.

Wells from Earth-2 tried to tinker with that device, and went: "Nah, it's too complicated, I better not touch it".

Speaking of Velocity-9. Here's an interesting plan:
> Create time remnant
> Convince him to penetrate STAR labs
> Seduce Caitlin
> Make her "perfect" Velocity-9
> OK, thanks, I don't need it, whatever

Interesting plot development that was!

Let's think about this some more:
> Time-travel: sure!
> Opening Breaches to ANY earth: sure!
> Speed Mirage? "No, I'm not THAT fast"

WHAAAT?

I hate the writing on this show. I'll be back in season 3, it looks to be even more fucked up if they dare to Flashpoint. Can't wait to see Supergirl dragged into this mess. High hopes Arrow will be MAJORLY affected too.

>>83158906
That's retarded.

Rebooting your universe after it's started 4 years ago, in the conclusion of a season that hammered the "PARALLELS UNIVERSES PEOPLE AREN'T THE SAME GUYS YOU KNOW" concept, just scream incompetence. I'm not worried though, doubt they'll have the ball to go through it

>>83159061
>Speed Mirage? "No, I'm not THAT fast"
I though he meant that as in, "I'm not fast enough to hold a non blurry speed mirage on one world while i terrorize another"?

>>83159246
Oh, OK, that actually makes sense...

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>>83159065
It's not a real reboot though. I really don't think at the very least. Flashpoint was never meant to lead up to the New 52. It was just meant to lead up to a Flash team book.

But the higher later insisted on rebooting DC and Flashpoint fell victim to becoming the reboot story. And the team book it was meant to lead up to was cancelled instead.

The ideas behind Flashpoint is still a solid Flash story. I have faith. Since as mentioned, this doesn't have to and likely won't lead to a New 52 style reboot. And if we get anything resembling it you can bet on it being temporary. Especially with Rebirth being hot.

>>83159061
>Watch the scene when Fake-Jay accuses Wells of Earth-2 for creating all those metas, and tell me they had this "reveal" planned from the start.
I am almost certain that they actually did. When Barry was running through the speedforce we saw Henry's face and I won't believe it was just a hamfisted homage to the old TV show. Everything else Barry was were things to come be it Supergirl, Jonah Hex, or Green Arrow of LoT. Henry as Jay Garrick can't have been different.

>>83149416
>>83149729
We have Fat Flash, can we get Hill Flash and Tall Flash?

>>83133948
they also care about ratings and if they go low enough the tv station will force them to fix their shit

>>83159676
Well, if your endgame is to "show JWS in Flash costume", you can go 9000 ways to get there. I'm referring to Fake-Jay being Zoom.

For example, the writers of LOST always claimed they knew what the finale was, later admitted they only knew they wanted an image of Jack lying on the ground and mirroring pilot episode.

>skies going red
>flash commits seppuku to save the multiverse

they did it the absolute mad men

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>>83154962
I loved it.

so can we say that the reason Jay didnt write out jay when he tried to tell barry who he was is because in his E3, the way you write J is different?
So they have all 25 alphabets similar to E1 but their ABC is written differently.

tfw helping those poor writers to cover up their mistakes. sigh.

>>83160026
>>83159676

Or to put it another way -- maybe they DID plan it, who knows? Then, they just executed it horribly. Reveals such as those should leave the viewer with the "Ahh, that's why, of course!", not "Wait, what, that makes no fucking sense, but OK, I guess".

>>83135007
Fuckin' kek got me

>>83160026
>I'm referring to Fake-Jay being Zoom.
I am just saying that if Henry was Jay Garrick then who would Hunter Zolomon be?
And if you're thinking Henry should be a non-Jay Flash, that would just be a huge shame considering he has aged perfectly for the role. People kept hoping for it since he was first revealed to be part of the show before the show even started.

>>83159061
>Watch the scene when Fake-Jay accuses Wells of Earth-2 for creating all those metas, and tell me they had this "reveal" planned from the start.
They actually did, Teddy Sears talked about his hiring on Kevin Smith's podcast.

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>>83135748
If you kill a killer the number of killers in the universe remains the same
>Batman

>>83160237
And I'm just saying that whole Henry thing is irrelevant (to this discussion). Was he part of the plot? Not really. Was he even from Earth-2? No.

Zoom could've been any random guy and it would've made MORE sense, than him being both Zoom AND Flash on the same Earth for the sole reason "he was bored".

>>83160253
OK, so they did. I was wrong, point taken.

But...

Was there even a single hint or at least some foreshadowing or maybe at least some inconsistency in Jay's story to suggest it, though?

>>83160330
what if I kill 2 killers?
Or any number larguer than that?

>>83125538
I would sign for any superhero work of fiction that would stay with the hero fighting evil guys forever without having to add timetravel or multiverses or crossovers, but sadly at this point I'm used to it.

Anyone got a webm of Time Remnant Barry burning up?

>>83160459
> what if I kill 2 killers?
Uh, you become a double-killer? Duh? Moron.

>>83160355
>for the sole reason "he was bored"
That isn't his sole reason though. Zoom has an inherent distaste towards heroic speedsters since they're similar to him yet nothing like him.
This is also why he grew so obsessed with Barry.

Zoom wants the world to know that there are no heroes as well as desperately wanting to see himself in someone else. Barry is his mirror but he can't stand that Barry turned out ok while he didn't, so he wants to drag Barry down to his level.

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>>83160498

>>83160459
you become a smart-ass

>>83125011
They are probably just doing an homage to flashpoint:

In s03e01 he will appear back in 2016, see everything went to shit: he doesn't have powers, the world is full of metahumans, snow and cisco died the day the particle accelerator exploded. To go back, he will seek help from the only man who stands against the chaos, the green arrow: Robert Queen.

He will infiltrate in Star Labs, reactivate the particle accelerator gain his powers back, and travel back and stop himself from saving his mom.

He comes backs, everything looks the way he left it, but just like the flutter of a butterfly can cause an earthquake, something is drastically different, in the mean time the speed force is pissed at Barry and send Black Flash to kill him.

>>83143274
I can guess they can replace it with Arrow and Legends of tomorrow stuff

>>83160558
I guess you're right, but then they did a piss-poor job of actuating any of that.

On both occasions, he just said he was bored. And the "you and I are not so different" speeches are not character development to me, they are just some cliches which I completely zone out from.

Not saying your interpretation is invalid, but as far as my viewing experience goes, I just got "I'm evil, crazy and random" from Zoom, not much else.

>>83143274
There's an Atlantis on E2
and Barry easter egged Aquaman in S1 so maybe they could introduce and Atlantis on E1
They don't have the rights or budget for anything interesting to come of the effort though

>>83160428
Yes.

Jay claimed Zoom had the power to steal his speed, yet Zoom needed to blackmail Wells into stealing Barry's speed for him. That was clue number one.

Jay later claimed he lost his speed because he used V6 rather than having it stolen by Zoom, when we already knew Zoom's goal was to get faster. That was clue number two.

Jay's infrequent disappearances were timed with Zoom's sudden appearances, and notice that Jay continuously played Zoom up as an undefeatable, terrifying presence Barry had no hope of defeating, yet kept pushing for Barry to get faster in order to stop him. He was the most vocal objector to Wells' presence on Earth-1 to help defeat Zoom, because it conflicted with his plans. He found a way to remind people he didn't have his speed anymore almost every chance he had.

Barry has to outrun Death in the S3 finale. Calling it.

this season was just season 1 with a fresh coat of paint, now we get to do it all over again!

>>83162079
>now we get to do it all over again!
This finale changes everything about the beginning of season one though so that idea is almost impossible.

>>83161476
Another minor detail that bothered the shit out of me:
>Jay teaches Barry how to throw lightning despite not being fast enough to do it himself.

>>83161476
>Jay claimed Zoom had the power to steal his speed, yet Zoom needed to blackmail Wells into stealing Barry's speed for him. That was clue number one.

OK. This is the strongest clue by far. By the way, why not kidnap Wells and make him steal the speed of Earth-3 Jay?

>Jay later claimed he lost his speed because he used V6 rather than having it stolen by Zoom

OK. Although it would've worked better as is, i.e. Jay just being drug addict.

> Jay's infrequent disappearances were timed with Zoom's sudden appearances

Invalidated later anyways, because there were 2 of them at a time.

>He was the most vocal objector to Wells' presence on Earth-1 to help defeat Zoom, because it conflicted with his plans.

But it didn't! It was exactly his plan.

Overall, have to agree, there were SOME clues.

>>83162270
Honestly, I usually chalk things such as those as "writers just forgot", but I dragged myself into that argument, so have to admit you're right.

>>83162270
I'm pretty sure he can, he just doesn't.

>>83162374
He couldn't steal Jay's speed because the Speed Force protected him. Plus, Barry's speed was stronger.

Hunter only had his time remnant masquerade as Jay when Barry and Cisco went to Earth-2 with Wells to rescue Jesse. Everything beforehand was Hunter.

Hunter's plan was to blackmail Wells, but he didn't account for Wells going to Earth-1 and volunteering to help the Flash take down Zoom.

>>83163413
Nah, now you're just making stuff up. Nothing in the show suggested anything like that.

Should've quit while still ahead.

How can Wells steal Barry's speed if he is not even on the same Earth?

Also, just out of curiosity, are you just playing devil's advocate, or are you seriously thinking Flash's writing is any good?

I wish we could have seen more of Jay Garrick. I guessed the reveal like a lot of people, so I kinda left with blue balls.

>>83164035
We're gonna see more of him in the future
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/24/flash-finale-season-3-spoilers-john-wesley-shipp-jay-garrick

>>83162374
>By the way, why not kidnap Wells and make him steal the speed of Earth-3 Jay?
Not him, but remember how Barry had to run on the not-yet-cosmic treadmill to give up his speed?
Why do you think Earth-3 Jay would be stupid enough to also give up his speed to the guy who wants to destroy the multiverse?

>>83164035
"Masketta Man is FlashDad as real Jay from Earth-3" is literally what was posted over and over and over on /co/.