Legends of Tomorrow

>>82595391
What am I looking at here?

>>82595391
I'm now 100% certain that the only reason Hawkgirl was cast was because she let the producer/casting director tittyfuck her. I have never seen a worse actor than her

>>82595391
>no replies

Feels bad, man. Legends has a good cast but the writers are not very good at adventure stories, and the show has been kind of boring because of it. The best damn episode in the series basically got ignored by the plot; it's hard to feel invested when things don't have consequences.

Legends never should have been a serialized show. Give us Star Trek in spacetime with superheroes.

>>82595391
Yeah, it's terrible now, I had such high hopes.

They need to kill off discount dr who and get a new nemesis

>>82595391
A thinly veiled commentary on the Syrian Refugee Crisis

I've heard it's confirmed for a Season 2, and season 2 is supposed to be a soft reboot.

I have no idea what I'm even looking at.

>>82595391
Of course it did, Rip was a horrible DM.

>>82595473
>>82595564
Green Ranger Ultron

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It's not very well written, but damn isn't it fun to watch

I think it got shitty because they had to stretch their season out once CW ordered more episodes. Hopefully the second season will be more balanced.

>>82595391
This show has 3 criminals and a man sworn to kill someone. Why havent they ripped Savage apart?

>>82595613
Timey wimey hackey writey.

>>82595613
Why has the villains been such shit lately?

The same problems exist that became apparent early on (Vandal Savage+Hawks plot is just plain bad, Rip is incompetent and uninteresting). I don't understand how someone could say it went off the rails at any point when those are consistent issues in basically every episode from the very start. Either it was never good to you or you're just an idiot who can't see things for what they are.

As a whole it's fine to me though because I can get over the stupidity of the plot and just enjoy the other parts.

>>82595499
>Legends never should have been a serialized show.
Why IS this a serialized show? With a primary cast that large, episodic is the way to go. You can have an overarching conflict, but it's best to keep it loose, and focusing on one or a few members of the group each episode.

I'm amazed at how quickly everyone in the cast except Mick and Snart became completely uninteresting and unlikable.

>>82595391
Green Power Ranger meets Space Sheriff?

>>82595391
>This show really went off the rails.
It not being on the rails is it's only redeemable quality.

>>82595710
I assume because nowadays episodic shows seem tacky and oldfashioned to some people. Plus serialized shows draw in viewers more since you have to watch every week to see the whole story.

It sucks, because it means every show is decompressed into half-season long episodes. About the only cape show that does serialization right is Gotham after it's first half-season since there's always something going on. Flash S1's second half was good too, but season 2 has been horrible.

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>>82595998
Agreed, I think Gotham's format is perfect for the subject matter. 2-3 episode arcs for each villain so they don't feel rushed while also not dragging them out too long. Also letting Hugo Strange be the puppet master of the whole second season was brilliant.

>>82595998
Procedurals really are the perfect solution and I don't know why people on /co/ especially seem to shit on them. You get the case of the week as the main draw but you can build up longer plots too alongside them.

>>82596174
Yeah, small arcs would have been best. When you drag everything on for a whole season it just gets boring.

This show is just dumb and not in the fun way. I want Snart and Mick to return to Flash since theyve barely done anything on there already

>>82596235
The reason people don't like them with Lucifer and iZombie is because they don't fit the source material.

Gotham isn't a procedural at all though.

>>82596285
Not just those though, /co/ would bitch when Flash would do villain of the week too last season. I don't get why it's seen as such a negative thing.

>all the characters constantly save each other's asses
>hawkgirl does jackshit the entire season
>fails to do her ONE job
>beats up Savage like a Mary Stu randomly because he stabbed Hawkman in the last episode
>"woah... you truly have saved us all kendra omg thank you so much"
Fuck right off.

>>82596285
But everyone here loves iZombie. It did all that right. It had it's mystery of the week cop sutff, and a great overarching plot

>>82596317
Oh, yeah I don't know why people complain about villains of the week. They did that with Gotham too. It's the most comic book way have your stories work.

I guess because it doesn't contribute to the serialized plot? Or maybe it's like Morrison said, and all comics nowadays have to be in a constant Crisis state, so readers expect the shows to do the same.

This entire show is passing everyone except fan favorite Snart and Sara the idiot ball in order to move its horrible plot forward. These writers are morons. The sad part is all of the actors other than Rip and the Hawks are incredibly charismatic and play off each other so well. They're wasted with this shit story.

>>82596317
>I only watch mature shows for mature viewers like myself.
The villain of the week format is often seen as kiddie shit for some reason. Probably because the most well known instance of it is Power Rangers.

>>82596435

I like iZombie too, but I've still seen people bitch about it being a procedural.

There's also the snobbery factor from the Netflix show crowd who have an HBO fetish, so they could see procedurals as "pleb shows."

I get the feeling that on the CW staff, theres a unhealthy consensus that just because the material is comic books means that they dont have to try. Its always melodramatic bullshit under a new guise because thats what they know

>>82596611
I think people overstate the CW factor when it comes to these shows. I blame Berlanti at this point given that the same issues are apparent with Supergirl.

>>82596447

>Rip

To be fair, we don't know how good he is as an actor when he isn't playing the single most incompetent sci-fi captain in TV history. Zap Brannigan is a more effective leader then Hunter.

Was he any good on Dr Who?

>>82595659
>we killed him, but he'll wake up, so we should run!

No. He's incapacitated. Chop his cunting head off. I don't care how fucking "immortal" he is. If you can wound him and "kill" him temporarily, chop the head. Even if he bullshit Deadpools back together, he's still out for a while. Cut it off again and again until you throw the remains in a volcano at the end of time.

>>82596827
Yeahbhe was so It make me think the fault lays with the writing.

They literally could have just tossed him into the sun, their time machine is also a spaceship.

>>82595391

I was okay with the giant robot, we comics now son. Seemed appropriate to me.

I like Atom growing too. It's long overdue. The Justice League/current/modern DC doesn't have a good giant guy.

>>82597011
There's Colossal Boy but yeah not really "current" given LoSH's murky continuity right now

>>82596827
>Was he any good on Dr Who?

Yeah, Rory was one of the more believable and relatable companions the show has had. The way he performed that part made the character feel like an actual person.

>>82595704

Yeah I like how it gives DC another show to show off some other characters though, I like how Per Degaton and Hex showed up.

Vandall always has this same group of baddies with him it seems too, Despero, Per Degaton, etc and they need to use them more to stretch out the show, give them something to do.

Seems like there is an alien embargo or something.

>>82596827
He was one of the more likeable characters on Doctor Who, yeah. As stupid as it sounds, he was a relatively decent self-insert for someone who'd be travelling in time with a mysterious dude they don't know jack shit about.

>>82597011
Did comic Atom ever grow? I thought that was Atom Smashers thing

>>82597038
Are the Legion EVER going to show up in this damn thing? Supergirl's cancelled, so they aren't gonna be in that.

I really hope Johns' post-Rebirth plan for them reignites some interest.

>>82595594
That is anatomically incorrect. No one can drink with their eyes.

>>82596785
This is true.

>>82596611
This is true as well, though. It really does feel like there's a quota of relationship drama, and CW's i-house writers aren't adventure writers so they lean on what they know.

>>82597263
Is it for sure cancelled?

>>82597263
Well Supergirl's not confirmed cancelled yet, but not looking good with all the budget rumors.

Flash teased the Legion ring first and there's an obvious connection with the Tornado Twins and Jenni so we'll see. Though at this point I don't know if I even want them on there. I haven't liked this Flash season at all. Might be better to give them their own series separate from everything.

>>82597331
Whenever people try to blame the CW as a network for Arrowverse show flaws I just point to iZombie.

>>82597263
>>82597395

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/supergirl-renewed-cancelled-cbs-les-moonves-freshman-shows-1201725184/

>Speaking at an investor conference in Palm Beach, Fla., on Tuesday morning, Moonves expressed optimism about the fate of the network’s new shows: “We have five new shows on the air. Of the five, I believe all five of them will be renewed. And we own four of them,” he noted at the Deutsche Bank 2016 Media, Internet & Telecom Conference in Florida.

>That means likely renewals for “Code Black,” “Limitless,” “Life in Pieces” and “Supergirl,” although the fifth show is in question, given that Jane Lynch-led comedy “Angel From Hell” was pulled from the schedule after five airings in February (usually a precursor to cancellation), and new dramas “Rush Hour” — based on the 1998 film — and “Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders” have yet to premiere.

>>82596827
Rory was excellent on Dr. Who. He had one of the most versatile and challenging roles any companion ever had and showed some serious range as an actor.

He's really being wasted here.

>>82597331
I guess it's unfair to keep pointing to iZombie but they do things so fucking well. I guess it does have romantic drama but it doesn't feel like it at all compared to the CW cape shows.

>>82597206

No, you're right. But that's what I'm saying though. Seems the two are always seperated, Ray over in the Justice League and AT in the Justice Society.

Makes no sense that Ray wouldn't grow too if he could. I actually like that the CW verse expanded Ray's powerset. The only thing they haven't done that he gets from the comics is the sword he gets sometimes (which would make a lot of sense on this show if they go back to medieval days) and the fact that Ray is always a leader of sorts. He's always taking charge/being a leader of the group he's in.

>>82597436
To be fair, iZombie is all about relationship and personal drama. But that's kind of the point of it; iZombie was a more introspective comic than Superhero books and the show follows suit.

But yes, iZombie is excellent and has never suffered from any of the relationship things that drag Flash, Arrow, and Legends down, plus the plot has managed to stay on track.

Liv had her own "let's not kill Savage" type moment and it had immediate negative repercussions.

>>82597395
>Might be better to give them their own series separate from everything.
Agreed, though I think it might help to introduce the casuals to them in another show first to kind of gauge interest.

And then there's the format. We were talking about serialization and how it doesn't work for some things. A serialized Legion TV show would be awful. Go the anthology route and focus on just one or a few of them a week, or it'll turn into a clusterfuck almost immediately.

>>82597514
>mfw we will never get a Sword of the Atom movie/show

Ray being able to grow would be pretty okay as long as Ryan can't. I liked the interplay between him and Giganta.

>>82597514
>Seems the two are always seperated, Ray over in the Justice League and AT in the Justice Society.

In the second main incarnation of the LoSH, Shrinking Violet eventually gets that version of Colossal Boy's growth powers so she can do both. But that's the only exception I can think of.

>>82597602

i knew it was impossible but I was praying for a "death" in Arrow and then Sword of the Atom and then he comes back

>>82595490
CW has the strange habit of casting great stage singers for some dumb reason. She was Esmeralda on the Broadway version of Hunchback of Notre Dame.

She spazzes in front of the camera

>>82597437

I hope Limitless gets renewed. The show is perfect for /co/ aside from the fact that it lacks any superheroes. It's basically an live action adult cartoon procedural mashup.

>>82597814
>It's basically an live action adult cartoon procedural mashup.

that sounds.... awesome. I should check that out.

>>82597674
They could've just cloned Caity lotz, dyed her hair black and gave her a fake tan to make her play Hawkgirl. But no, we get Straightface Mccan'tactforshit

>>82595391

Those two minutes of Ray wrestling a giant atomic robot was the only worthwhile thing out of the last two episodes of LoT.

Man this show is getting frustrating as it's wrapping up with the finale.

>>82598261
Flash is the same

>>82595704
This. Which is why I dropped it.

>>82596611
>>82596785
As far as I can tell, there IS a CW factor that affects most of their shows.

It really just boils down to attention-grabbing relationship stuff needing to be front and center every episode. It's something that they've learned going from Arrow S2 to S3: your male audience may be devoted and loyal, but the potential female audience for a CW show is simply bigger. Not catering to that audience causes them to leave, and the only thing that has consistently made them stay is a combination of fantasy and high stakes relationship drama.

iZombie can get away with things not needing to be all in your face, but 1) it still has relationship drama and 2) to the degree that it's not as bad as Arrowverse shows, it's because it wouldn't get a notable ratings bump from changing things.

>>82598712
iZombie is also able to do things that would be dumb in normal situations under the guise of the brain stuff. Like you can have Liv going through Major's phone and seeing sexts from some girl he fucked without Liv actually looking bad or immature.

>>82597291
>the straw has an additional bend inside the mask

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>>82596848
Hell, just do something like that.

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>>82599351

>>82595490
Have you seen her lips she probably blow the producer and staff to death

>>82595578
Which DC character is Green Ranger Ultron supposed to be, though?

>>82599490
it's just a robot Vandal Savage has

>>82599516
Well fuck.

>>82595534
Underrated post

>>82595391
Should have ended episode 13, the forced drama is just ruining it
The whole carter thing was stupid

>>82595473
Emerald splash

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>>82597263
>Are the Legion EVER going to show up in this damn thing?

I don't know if that's a good idea.

All I can picture is monkey's paw. I'm not well read in Legion, though.

>Saturn Girl will be Felicity with mind control powers.
>Legion founders will be stuck in a cw-tier love triangle. Everyone else will also be stuck in a shitty love triangle.
>The Time Trapper will be Felicity.
>Element Lad's symbol will not look like a dick.
>Sun Boy will continue to suffer horrible fates because he's a slut.
>White Witch will only angst about her abusive relationship with Mordu.
>Wildfire will just angst about his lack of dick.
>"Eat it, Grandpa" will be the Legion's slogan.
>Your Legion husbando/waifu is ruined. And now, you must deal with a horde of retarded casuals shitting on your husbando/waifu.

Feel free to add some more.

>>82595490
Come on she's pretty good for a horse.

And Mr. Ed's been dead for years.

>>82600150
>Element Lad's symbol will not look like a dick.

Truly the worst of all crimes

They probably wouldn't even make him properly pansexual or whatever

>>82596235
Arrow and Flash's case of the week stuff was never very interesting

>>82596317
It's hard to craft an interesting villain in the span of 42 minutes with a satisfying resolution. I mean look at how devoid of personality all the one off rogues are like Atom Smasher. Case of the week generally devolves into formulaic writing and thus is boring.

Kill Greg Berlanti and everything will be good.

You know I'm right.

>>82600382
>It's hard to craft an interesting villain in the span of 42 minutes with a satisfying resolution
How come cartoons manage to do just that with half the screen-time, but live-action show don't?

>>82600382
>Case of the week generally devolves into formulaic writing and thus is boring.

I don't agree and I don't know why people think this. Formulas are fine.

>>82600480
I said it's hard not impossible, my favorite show is TNG and they do a damn good job.

Personally don't feel Flash or Arrow's writers are up to that task based on their previous standalone episodes.

>>82600571
Most people want something more to follow than "villain shows up, hero loses first encounter, learn more about villain, win second encounter". Also case of the week episodes don't do much in terms of stakes for the audience.

>>82600472
That wouldn't work, his company would still retain control over the shows. There needs to be a scandal that forces them to cease operation.

>>82595391
I can only watch this show with insta-skiping every Barrista Girl Drama scenes

Maybe that guy who worked up how to fix Arrow for Season 5 could fix Flash and LoT too?

>>82600613
You don't need a compelling or deep villain, just an entertaining one. If you're not killing off your villains after every appearance you can develop them later.

>>82600382
Dramas did this for years though. Like, literal years. X-Files was one of the first shows to do serialized myth arcs and even it had that part of the show segregated from the rest.

>>82600480
>>82600613

Well, there's a simple answer in the CW shows' cases:

The writing teams make it clear that they only use case-of-the-week episodes so as to pad the shows out. Their real interest, on a week to week basis, is to complicate the characters' overarching goals and make the journey to the final boss less obvious.

While it's not a horrendous goal, a TON goes wrong in the process. For example, characters who are both new and organic to the show become hard to find because non-main characters never get their due. Furthermore, it foregoes ALL characterization that can derived from a well-written single episode: a villain interacting with one character *should* have big consequences, but automatically implying that cases-of-the-week are pointless means that there won't be any last change.

And really, they're just shooting themselves in the foot: other shows can get away with the case-of-the-week format because there's no obvious end goal (i.e. no final boss introduced towards the beginning of the season). Because of this, episode of a normal show is allowed to 1) feel important to the audience and 2) be written, by the writers, as potentially being important.

When you've already laid out the end goal and said "yeah none of this weekly case stuff is going to matter at all or even be particularly well-written", then it becomes hard to go into these episodes with any hype.

>>82595391
?What the fuck am I looking at?

>an immortal psychopath who manipulates world leaders in order to bring about his own reign and has centuries of killing and combat experience
It's such a fantastic concept for a villain in theory. Why is Savage so shit on the show?

>>82596827
he was literally the best companion in Doctor who.

>>82601383
This is the actor's first English speaking role. He may not even actually speak english, ala Bela Lugosi, but I don't know. They can't actually have him on screen much because he isn't very good at the language, and the writers don't know what to do with him.

>>82601477
then why picking him on the first place?

>>82601477
>He may not even actually speak english
That could just be used as an opportunity to hide him in the shadows manipulating people and building up terrifying presence for himself.
Then again, it's a CW/Berlanti show. I doubt writers would've pulled that off well. Reverse-Flash is just an exception that proves the rule.

>>82601595
Damn good question.

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>>82601383

Because the actor is horribly miscast and by design he basically can't have any kind of story arc or actual villainous plan beyond EVIL.

The character is written as some kind of silver-tongued manipulator but the problem is that can't be sustained as an actual villain for centuries. It would be one thing if they were fighting him in present day and he was using his centuries of experience against them, but since the story has a Quantum Leap/Sliders structure his plans can't actually percolate beyond "What dastardly thing is Skeletor doing this week? Can the gang stop him?" and so nothing he's doing can be too complicated or mysterious. For as lame as Zoom is, at least he has an understandable goal they've laid out and explored. Savage can't have have anything like that because the weekly structure means it has to be a bunch of shitty, tiny plans that don't amount to anything.

If it was the 2016 version of Savage who stole a timeship and was jumping into different timelines and laying groundwork for some kind of massive world-ending plan that would be one thing, but this is a character who's fundamentally restricted by the story being told into a one-dimensional villain. He should be the DCTV version of The Master, but the show can't sit still that long to let that happen.

The show has so little meat in its villains narrative bones that they've basically made the main motivation into Rip wanting to save muh waifu and son, which also doesn't work because we don't know anything about those two people and we can't possibly give a shit if they live or die.

It's really pretty incredible how terribly written LoT is. Everything about the overarching storyline is fucking embarrassing on every single level, the only time the show comes alive is in the weekly stories.

>>82600571
I'm with you. Sometimes we get really good ones on Flash and Arrow. Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, Clock King, Trickster, etc.

>>82601679
>he could've been Hannibal of Arrowverse, but on a grander scale
>ends up being an ineffective unthreatening saturday morning cartoon villain
Shame, really.

>>82601868

It's outstandingly stupid that they waited until the 14th fucking episode to give Savage any characterization beyond vague evil monologues.

The scene with Ray and Savage where he explains the one lifetime with Kendra where she actually loved him was genuinely effective and finally gave some sense behind Savage's love for her. It's complete madness that they waited until now for that scene, we're so far past the point of no return for character moments like that in the show it doesn't mean anything, that should have happened in the first six somewhere,

God, the writing on LoT is so bad.

>>82598860
That seems superfluous. Why does she wear the mask?

>>82601956
Yea, that was the first time I thought Savage was kind of living up to what the story was saying he is.

Way too late, show.

>>82596542

I've never understood the long standing trend to shit in procedurals, as long as the cases are good, what's the fucking problem? Law and Order was GOAT TV for the longest time and it was pure procedural.

Just because you do done in one stories doesn't make it any worse than shit that drags an entire season down by doing one fucking overarching storyline that 90% of the time could be done in half the time.

>>82600150
All of that but the first two points are dumb for the simple reason that they'll never use any Legionnaires who aren't Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl, Lightning Lad, and MAYBE Brainiac 5. Maybe.

>>82596827
He's quite good in Broadchurch. He plays a small town priest.

Along side David Tennant:

>>82595562
New protagonists and new antagonists, apparently they will get a rotating roster.

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>>82595391
I'm usually easy to please and can enjoy average shows if they're fairly entertaining, have a lot of heart, etc.

But I just couldn't stand LoT anymore. It started off fine enough, cool effects and likable characters. But the writing is just ABYSMAL. Every episode half the characters act like idiots, you're constantly thinking of things the characters should be doing instead of the stupid shit they actually do. And the time travel writing goes beyond acceptable limit of "timey wimey" straight into being absolutely retarded.

I had to quit after it got too frustrating. Damn shame. At least it has best Arrow episode since Arrow season 2.

>>82599351
Honestly, chucking your problems into space is has a pretty decent track record
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1YcJkYBAxQ

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WHAT A SHOCKING TWIST THAT WAS AT THE TIME COUNCIL.

SURE AS FUCK DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING FROM A THOUSAND YEARS AWAY.

>>82604949
The weird thing is, even without the twist, what the fuck was Rip's game? Did he seriously think the video was a good proof of Vandals guilt for time manipulation?
The video was just Vandal saying "lol, Rip showed me future tech and I worked it out fron there."
Wouldn't that incriminate Rip instead of Vandal? I don't understand.

>>82605603
It was there as a conceit to somewhat conceal that Rip's entire plan was stupid.
With the twist in place that the plan failed could be chalked up to being out maneuvered...and not just a horrible plan.

I mean, the Time Masters have made it clear they prioritize Vandal over Rip's mission 1000%
No evidence would have changed that.

>Kendra has restored Carter's memories and things are over with Ray.

Congratulations, you've stolen him from that time period's Kendra thus forever denying that version of yourself the happiness of their reunion. Also when her memories come in she'll know she basically fucked herself over.

It'll all be moot anyway since Vandal is back in control but fucking hell that whole thing was retarded.

>>82596174
>2-3 episode arcs for each villain so they don't feel rushed while also not dragging them out too long.

this format felt so unfamiliar to me, that I thought for a moment they are rushing the story to end Gotham after the second season, yet its getting a third season.

>>82596827
>Was he any good on Doctor Who?
He punched Hitler in the face

I still love the show, it has loveable actors and a wide variety of character personalities. It's one of those shows you shouldn't take too seriously. Although eveytime Kendra speaks or tries to act I just cringe, her acting is so bad thay you can't look past it.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/features/mark-pedowitz-the-cw-the-flash-arrow-1201617084/

A look into the CW writers' eyes, especially the ones on Arrowverse shows.

>Genre shows with a serialized element [are] "what our audience wanted.”
>But ... the genre element is irrelevant if the characters, their quests and their relationships don’t justify the audience’s investment.
>“We always try to find the balance between what’s the big idea, what’s the hook that will get people to show up and watch the show, and what will keep them coming back,” says Gaye Hirsch, senior vice president of scripted development.
>For the CW, a show’s hook must be welded to emotionally rich relationships and ongoing conflicts that evolve every week.
>“It’s not just who is Oliver fighting in Act 5, it’s ‘Why is he fighting that person? What are the emotional stakes?’” says Wendy Mericle, an executive producer of “Arrow."

>>82595499
Yeah, CW doesn't have many good writers

I mean fuck, their best written capeshow right now is fucking iZombie.