DCEU IN CRISIS?

The DCEU is in crisis because it is too unstable. Instead of building a solid base, they just make too many turbulent moves. Justice League before most of the characters are set up? Filming Wonder Woman at the same time as Justice League? Hell, killing off Superman in the second film?

In fact, let's look at the most obvious problem, they really can't read their audience at all. Why did they try to push a Cyborg film when Teen Titans would have been a highly anticipated film? TT has had two really popular cartoons, and yet it's not on their radar cause "Not edgy enough"?

This is why they fail.

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This whole god damn situation makes me so mother fucking angry.

I love these characters so much..why is WB and co so fucking clueless?

Give me some better posts tomorrow, /co/?

>>82337600

Of all the black characters to push, why Cyborg? I'll never understand that. He doesn't fit the Justice League at all. I'd rather they have just made Barry or Hal or whatever black instead of cramming in a character that simply doesn't belong.

Black Lightning would have been a more logical choice than Cyborg too. He has the makings of an A-lister. Cyborg? What horrible fuck up of a corporate meeting spawned that idea?

>>82337619
>I love these characters so much..why is WB and co so fucking clueless?
Because DC has to sell WB on the characters before WB tries to sell them to the audience.

And in order to make WB bite DC needs to make ridiculous pitches and decisions.
"No, wee... you need Cyborg because there has to be a black man in the Justice League!"
"What about John Stewart?"
"No no no... Hal is GL. Sure, 10x as many people know John as GL... but Hal is who we're making GL."

They just announced GLC was gonna be a ensemble piece with Hal, John and Kyle.
John's gonna be GL in JLA. Cyborg's film isn't going to be made.

>>82337619
I'm right there with you, friend.

I fucking hate this. I love DC and its characters so much, but this is what we get?

It really isn't fair. We deserved better. The source material deserved better.

>>82337496
Even when this came out, I knew they were full of shit.

>>82337748
>10x

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>>82337753
>>82337619

I'm not even angry any more. Just upset.

This must be how my parents feel about me. Huh.

>>82337856

Holy shit man that's a fucking depressing screwed up way to put it.

I know where you're coming from.

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>>82337619
>>82337753
JUST BLOW IT ALL UP

I'D RATHER HAVE NO DC FILMS FOR A WHILE THAN HAVE DC FILMS EVERYONE HATES

>>82337726
Because Cyborg is part of the popular Teen Titans cartoon.

>>82337600
Please stop pushing this "setting up" bullshit. Many ensemble films just needed one film to do such a thing. The real problem was putting Snyder at the helm.

>>82337856
>This must be how my parents feel about me. Huh.
Man, I know the feeling.

>>82337887
The worst thing is, this is going to screw up the perception of these characters to the mainstream public.

>>82337196
It was in crisis the moment they thought they had to play catch up to Marvel which was the minute they announce all of the movies and changed Supes 2 into BvS

>>82337619
Let's be honest, DC was always fucking clueless.
How many stories just revolve around shock deaths? How many stories are written by guys who just like Batman and hate every other hero? How many times do you get really stupid decisions like evil Cassandra Cain? I mean, fuck, most of the people in the world think there is only one Robin and that his name is fucking Robin. Even more think that Aquaman just talks to fish.

And the kill freely attitude has already killed off Pa Kent, Jimmy Olsen, Mercy Graves, one of the Robins, and Superman in two films already. Some stable DC characters are dead, and the DCCU hasn't even started yet.

DC is too turbulent for its own good.

>>82337856
that's exactly how I felt about BvS so much potential ruined. I honestly didn't feel angry just disappointed, more than I thought was possible

>>82337948
Nah, the reason everyone piles on them (apart from technical filmmaking issues) is because of perceptions. Audiences and critics expect Superman and Batman to be a certain way and they're not wrong. They're safe, though WB isn't.

>>82337619
I'm almost emotionless to it all now. I keep getting disappointed with things I'm excited for, and now it's like that nerve's been cut entirely.

>MCU (specifically Thor 1 and 2, Ultron, IM2 and 3, and the fact that of all the stories to tell, Cap 3 is Civil War)
>Godzilla (2014)
>Ratchet And Clank
>DCEU
>Transformers

I just can't get excited anymore. It's always disappointing.

>>82338007
If we're talking the comics, then Marvel is just as retarded.

>>82338007
I don't think Johns and any other comic people have any real say here, unlike the TV shows.

They're basically yes-men to Snyder.

>>82338042
But MoS and BvS were both legitimately terrible movies.

>>82338060
>>Godzilla (2014)
This movie was good though.

>>82338094
That's what I meant by "filmmaking issues".

>SOURCES at WB tell ME....
>I'M told...

Cool story, compadre. Shittier source as well.

>>82338119
Oh, in that case I agree.

>>82338064
Marvel at least has a timeline that makes reasonable sense. Half the time, I don't know how the DC's stuff is laid out.

Yes, both companies have done some pretty major shit, but I feel like DC is a lot messier than Marvel.

>>82338148
Marvel Studios isn't Marvel Comics

WB isn't DC

>>82338148
Doesn't Marvel's timeline make less sense the more you think about it?

>>82338127
It doesn't matter. DC/WB have been losing the public relations war ever since Green Lantern. Of course they wouldn't get so much heat if they put out better movies.

>>82337988
They were playing catch-up since Green Lantern.

>>82338148
>Marvel at least has a timeline that makes reasonable sense.

Are you fucking dense?

In what world is Marvel's timeline more consistent than DC's? Retcons and sliding timelines are NOT better than reboots.

DC fucked up tremendously with the movies, but their Comics are miles above Marvel's in term of in-universe consistency.

>>82338094
>This movie was good though.

It seriously wasn't.

>Every time Godzilla or the MUTOs show up, they just squander everything for some buildup with absolutely no payoff ("Let them fight" felt like a big middle finger on the screen)
>They decide to kill off the only interesting character half way through the movie
>Cop out the movie's focus to a piece of wood with no personality who is just magically good at Godzilla missions
>That awkward-as-fuck celebration at the end
>Ken Watanabe doing nothing but staring at things and saying random lines every once in a while

>>82338250
I liked it.

>source cited by devin faraci
Wew Lad, we have truly become /tv/

>>82338312
Faraci ended up being right about the BvS reviews.
Sadly both him and McWeeny were right.

>>82338250
you forgot

>So dark you literally can't see shit

Movie must have been pitch fucking black if you watched it in 3D

>>82338250
>trailer shows Cranston flipping out
>ultrahyped
>turns out he's not even talking about Godzila and dies before he shows up

It was alright in the end, but they seriously wasted Cranston and Godzilla 98 was a better-constructed kaiju movie even if it took the god out of Godzilla.

I hope Edwards learned from this though and he's better than Snyder easily so I'm still moderately hyped for the sequel.

>>82338387
>Godzilla 98 was a better-constructed kaiju movie even if it took the god out of Godzilla.

Hank Azaria was the bomb

>>82338347
So was most of /co/, this doesn't change the fact that his brand of """journalism""" is shit and should mostly be ignored

>>82337726
Cyborg is a Geoff Johns pet like Hal, Barry, Shazam and the JSA.

>>82338347
Didn't Faraci actually backtracked in that tho? Doesn't sound to reliable to me senpai.

>>82338353
It was literally darker than the Man of Steel climax. Didn't help that all of the monsters were mostly grey-black. My head hurt a bit in the theater.

Ghidorah,Rodan, etc. better have more color.

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>JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK is dead.

>>82338210

But then why did they throw GL into the trash and try once again at making a CU?

>>82337619
>liking Aquaman

Ha.

WB really needs someone in charge of DC films only. The MCU would probably be fucked up too if they had to answer directly to a bunch of Disney suits that hate comics.

>the source is Devin Faraci
C'mon son..

>>82338507
Man of Steel underperformed but didn't flop.

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>>82337196
OP is a faggot who started this thread just to get new additions to his "laughing Chris Evans" folder

How is this shit not banned yet?

>>82338459

Who started this meme? Johns is a continuity wanking nut. He just rezzed the entire original Justice League pre52. And he immediately sidelines Martian Manhunter for Cyborg? Who believes this? Why do they believe this?

>>82338513
lol, what?

Marvel films answer to people who at least seem to know the comics.

How is it not clear the Warner people not only don't know the comics, but actively dislike them too?

>>82338539
That should be

GL flopped, while MoS and BvS didn't.

Though they didn't perform as well as WB wanted, that's still better than flopping.

>>82337196
>Seth-Grahame Smith departs THE FLASH over "creative differences".
Good.
>James Wan reportedly considering dropping out of AQUAMAN due creative differences.
Terrible. When Wan opened with a Lovecraft quote I was 100% on board with him for Aquaman.
>Zack Snyder reportedly at odds with WB executives over JUSTICE LEAGUE, only wasn't dropped because firing the director one week before shooting and with BATMAN V SUPERMAN struggling with critics and box office would look disastrous.
Good. Maybe they'll finally wrestle him out of there.
>SHAZAM getting delayed.
I mean, it's already in 2019 and a New Line movie instead of DC, so it doesn't affect me.
>JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK is dead.
As expected with 90% of projects involved with GDT.
>CYBORG facing cancellation to become a supporting character in THE FLASH.
Terrible news. Ray Fisher seems so hyped to play the role.
>SUICIDE SQUAD and THE BATMAN apparently the only saving graces.
SS looks good, but Batman is stacked af. Leto, Simmons, Irons, Affleck, maybe even DaFoe- nothing short of armageddon is gonna break it.

>>82338539
If Man of Steel under performed, so did Batman Begins.

Any new Superman movie would have an uphill climb considering how hated Superman Returns was and how it poisoned the character cinematic ally, not to mention that as a comic book, Superman was not as popular as Batman either.

Man of Steel was controversial in some areas, and made furious some basement dwellers, but it was overall a success with a near $700M gross and majority liked by audience, even if divisive with critics.

>>82338578
Did you even attempt to read what that anon posted, you blathering retard?

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>>82338545

>>82338627
>If Man of Steel under performed, so did Batman Begins.

...yes?

Underperforming doesn't mean flopping, they more than broke even

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>>82337196
This is why I just jump back into the Timmverse and pretend none of this shit is happening. The last things in DC that made me happy were Blackest Night, Brave and the Bold, and GL:TAS... which is fucking sad. They don't have a strong creative head to create a foundation for all of these live action media creations. At least all the Bruce Timm animations had him and a few other guys at the helm making sure it all worked together.

>>82338634

Yeah, but I fucked it up a bit, you lonely unloved sack of horrible nasty shit.

>>82338660
the point is I dont think you can look at either as underperforming when both franchises were poison before them

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>>82337196
The fire rises

>>82338060
>Transformers
Unless you mean you were hype in 2006, I'm not sure what you expect at this point, getting excited for more bayTFs is just self-flagellation

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>tfw suicide squad will be a great success but everything surrounding it will fail and render it meaningless

>>82338094
>This movie was good though.
That movie was fucking awful.

All of the fights were cut out, the main character was stupid, personality-less, and invincible. Fuck.

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>>82337196
>CRISIS
how apropo

>>82337196
I think the main difference between DC and marvel is that Marvel was its own company when it started the MCU. It made something awesome, THEN it was bought by Disney.


DC has been Warner Bros little bitch since the 90's.

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>DCEU's pretty much dead in the water
>muh diversity character is becoming less and less relevant

>>82337726
Interesting character that deals with what is left of his humanity and coming to terms with becoming almost all machine. Maybe it can be reflected on how people use technology more than ever.

>>82338776
>Maybe it can be reflected on how people use technology more than ever.
That would require a shred of insight and creativity, though. Hollywood does neither.

Oh shit this is like Franktastic times at FOX again isnt it?

>>82338497
>Ghidorah,Rodan, etc. better have more color.

>Ghidorah's in the next movie
So fucking nice

>>82337726
Cyborg's more well known than Black Lightning. The Green Lantern ring user is maybe the most easily replaceable character and having one of them die and not come back makes for an interesting emotional possibility for a future movie. Black audience members may be more accepting of a white GL dying and being replaced in future movies by a black GL than the other way around.

>>82338776
Robocop did it already

He's already been rebooted, even

>>82338702
Audience standards no

WB bean counter standards yes

>>82338821
>Black audience members may be more accepting of a white GL dying and being replaced in future movies by a black GL than the other way around.
That is racist as fuck.

>>82337196

Abort DCEU, just let Cavill/Affleck run out their respective S and B runs for the next 6-10 years. Just put 100% focus into that and make some fucking memorable movies instead of trying to awkwardly cobble together a pile of dogshit.

Kill Snyder. Or fire him. Whatever. Dump him ASAP. The guy is shit tier and the Michael Bay of grimdark. MORE EDGE. MORE. IT FEEDS MY SOUL.

Restart DCEU attempt by leading with Batman first, then Supes, then a female Shazam. Add in Lantern, Flash, and a lady Aquawoman. Abort WW, she's a terrible character that's impossible to right a decent story for and has only been shoehorned in because of her boobs. Dump her like the plague.

>>82338883
yeah

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>>82337619
Thanks for summing up my opinions there, friend. Except I decided years ago to stop having any expectations for DC's movie department. It's better that way. There's still great comics to read without convincing yourself they're gonna get the adaptations they deserve.

>Devin Faraci at it again

Is there a more amoral man in the film journalist industry? The specific amount of attention he pays to adding vitriol to the capeshit must imply some deep held resentment towards the genre

>>82338821
Or they could keep all Green lanterns and simply send the ones they don't need for a particular movie to do GL corps stuff on the other side of the galaxy.

>>82337726
I've never got why they don't just go with J'onn, considering he's been more or less black for forever

>>82338776
Isn't that just Robocop?

>>82337600
>Why did they try to push a Cyborg film when Teen Titans would have been a highly anticipated film? TT has had two really popular cartoons, and yet it's not on their radar cause "Not edgy enough"?
No one was clamoring for a Thor or Iron Man movie. They just fucking executed.

Iron Man, in retrospect, seems like a slam dunk. But I still don't know how they had the balls to attempt a Thor movie. With the fucking alien gods and all of it! How the fuck did they get away with this??

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>>82338802
I can't believe I argued for that movie early in its production. I so wanted to have a good Fantastic 4 movie that I ignored all the signs until a couple months before release, when it was just too obvious. I'm sure there's some DC fans out there right now who are i the same place, doing their best to ignore the all the evidence it will all be shit, pretending it's all Marvel shills stirring up bad publicity. It's a cycle that's annoying for other people, but most painful on yourself.

>>82338898
>Abort WW, she's a terrible character that's impossible to right a decent story for and has only been shoehorned in because of her boobs
They can't abort WW without an immense backslash and that's something they don't need more of. I kinda wish they did because the actress doesn't seem like she can act

>>82337196
>>Zack Snyder reportedly at odds with WB executives over JUSTICE LEAGUE, only wasn't dropped because firing the director one week before shooting and with BATMAN V SUPERMAN struggling with critics and box office would look disastrous.

No, it wouldn't. At this point I think it would generate more hope in the DC properties.

>>82338883
Par for the course for black audiences.

>>82338547
Goyer probably nixed J'onn when he was still calling shots.

>>82338677
If only I could've won the billion dollar Powerball jackpot a few months back. Then I would bankrolled a Batman Beyond movie with Bruce Timm writing the script and having Kevin Conroy live act as old Bruce Wayne.

But instead 3 other faggots won. Oh well, too bad.

I also would have funded a Doctor Fate movie with Zatanna as supporting cast

>>82337196
I don't put much stock in company wars or reports of doom but it seems kind of obvious that they don't have a producer who can put all this stuff together. Do we even know who's producing these movies? Or is it a committee?

The MCU has Feige and WB's television division has Berlanti in charge. Even if some of their projects don't work as well as others, they've got a strong style, which you have to have to coordinate a style across a shared universe.

>>82338928
As long as it's post-Nolan DC.

>>82338898
>female shazam
Can shazam get something new and decent with him at the forefront before you turn him into a bitch.

>>82339012
Marvel wanted an Avenges movie from the get-go because they didnt have Spidey or Xmen, so thry decided to test the waters a bit with Iron Man, Hulk, and Ant-Man with a possibility of Thor.

Iron Man was a hit, Hulk was alright, and Ant Man got pushed back. Marvel was smart with setting it all up.

>>82339095
I would have been on board with all that. Hell I keep wanting to write a cape movie script just to see why it seems so hard to do well and considered Doctor Fate. With Dark on the backburner, that could sort of merge with a general DC magic title.

>>82339095
>Batman Beyond

Thank God you lost

>>82339012
Probably by not really doing anything particularly original with it (other than the concept). Just like GotG. and Ant-Man

I mean, don't get me wrong, Marvel movies are entertaining as fuck, but they're just paint-by-the-number blockbuster flicks. And they're very good at being just that.

>>82339096
A committee aka "brain trust", including WB execs, one of which is Snyder's wife, and Synder, and supposedly Johns

Look we all know whats going on right now, WB executives are furious and now theyre doing circles at the office trying to salvage this investment. I mean christ when you have both Batman and Superman doing MEH at the box office you know something is wrong. Maybe they cant fire Zack due to a loophole or something

>>82339096
Why don't they just put Berlanti in charge of features? Well, I guess he's too valuable to the TV division... and the Green Lantern movie bombed... OK, I guess I answered my question. But they need a producer like that for the movies instead of guys like Snyder and Nolan sharing bits of power.

This is exactly what Drew McWeeny said could happen if Batman v Superman failed. Without a Kevin Feige figure to plan shit out, WB had nothing to fall back on for their DC films.

http://www.hitfix.com/the-dartboard/batman-v-superman-could-dcs-entire-slate-be-in-jeopardy-fandemonium

>There is no hand guiding this entire thing. If those plans don't work out, then you don't know what to do.

>>82339239
They can't fire him because it makes them look bad.

Getting a co-director (who does the actual directing while Snyder does the visuals) also makes them look bad.

It's no-win.

>>82338898
>Abort WW, she's a terrible character that's impossible to right a decent story for and has only been shoehorned in because of her boobs. Dump her like the plague.

You've never read a WW comic in your life.

>>82339187
If you hate Beyond, you probably shouldn't be on /co/. No schwarbage allowed. Would be a fun way to do another Batman movie without just falling into the same damn story again.

>could have went the normal route and put out cape movies true to its comics
>instead we get grim dark, 2deep4u religous bullshit

Nobody would have cared you copied Marvel, we just want to see DC heros in a cohrent, precise world on film

>>82339280
Wasn't it rumored that Spielberg ghost-directed Poltergeist? Maybe they can do something similar and just suck up the rumors.

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>>82337196

MCU has lost more people. Stuff like this happens all the time.

Sometimes it works out.

>>82339051
>>Abort WW, she's a terrible character that's impossible to right a decent story for and has only been shoehorned in because of her boobs
>They can't abort WW without an immense backslash
Hahaha. That was the funniest part of the BvS reviews "Oh, but WW was fantastic! Best part of the movie!"

She had like 3 lines. Everyone clap harder for the woman hero.

>>82339310
There are thousand of stories that could be adapted without having to use Beyond only because it's cartoon you grew up with.

Now kill yourself.

>>82339280
Having a box office bomb is worse. I dont think the public gives a shit if the command changes

>>82338883
It's just a guess, but maybe it actually could get more people who haven't heard of GL before a Stewart movie to go see a later movie with a white person with a GL ring.

>>82338706
Not him but I enjoyed TF1 and was excited for RotF only to be disappointing, and they keep getting me with great looking trailers, they're probably going to get me again for TF5.
I don't expect them to be good, but i hope

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Batman V. Super wasn't the best movie. In fact, it was the most meh-inducing flick I've ever watched. But what's with all these people thinking it's a commercial flop?

I mean, yeah, it didn't make back its budget on the opening weekend, and it only made about 1.3x its budget in domestic sales...but it made back more than triple its budget in total.

>>82339339
What about Beyond makes it bad to you? I just ask because it's one of the only titles that /co/ almost universally likes. Also I'm an old-shit so I wasn't a kid when it came out, so no nostalgia glasses.

>>82339312
>Nobody would have cared if you copied Marvel

They would get a ton of lip, but not straight-up venom like now. Everyone may talk shit but they shut up quickly if the movies are good.

Look at how many people were saying Ant-Man was doomed. Look at the people complaining about superhero fatigue even before Avengers 1 was out.

>>82339383
With today's insane corporate expectations, any movie that makes less profit than projected is considered a failure.

Avengers: Age of Ultron was basically considered a failure at Disney because it cost more than the original and made less.

>>82339383
someone show this guy the charts of the other movies making over a billion, way more than BvsS

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>>82339381
>they're probably going to get me again for TF5
Don't, I want good Transformers movies one day and the longer these things keep making money the further off that future is.

>>82339383
More importantly it's a critical flop.

>>82337619
They should let the DCAU guys have a crack at it. They fucking nailed Justice League already.

Would be even better if they scraped all the Snyder/Nolan garbage first

>>82338898
>Kill Snyder. Or fire him. Whatever. Dump him ASAP. The guy is shit tier and the Michael Bay of grimdark. MORE EDGE. MORE. IT FEEDS MY SOUL.

the problem here is that he's making exactly the superman that WB wants.

in fact, he's probably making one of the less-bad versions of superman that wb would be willing to make.

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Just a reminder Green Lantern was suppose to be the start of the DCEU

Yes, that piece of shit was suppose to start it all

Warner Bro's are so incompetent

>>82339383
Most people will flock to see a movie with Batman versus Superman, despite how stupidly it's presented. It's like why Transformers have an audience. Nostalgia and big epic fight shit rolled into one. If anything the fact that a lot of us chose not to see it is the anomaly since we're so damn critical of this stuff.

>>82339326
Who have they lost?

>>82337600
i feel that for the marvel films introducing the characters first worked but dc should have done what new 52 did and started with the league

the marvel way would have worked fine to though just go one way or the other not inbetween

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>>82337196
Mfw the only reason I what to watch suicide squad is because I really want to see Will Smith as Deathshoot

>>82339417
They probs think Star Wars is a failure too because it didn't beat Avatar or even Titanic

"only 2 billion dollars? what a fucking bomb, bring me Abrams head"

>>82339437
>in fact, he's probably making one of the less-bad versions of superman that wb would be willing to make.

Yeah, when WB needed to get a Superman movie out by 2013, Snyder was the only director whose pitch was closest to regular Superman

Everyone else wanted to reinvent him even more.

>>82339422
I can't help it, they make such good trailers

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>>82339191
>but they're just paint-by-the-number blockbuster flicks.
If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it right.

There's a lot to be said about hitting the mark 13 times in a row, where other studios struggle to make 3 or 4.

It ha very much to do with studio hierarchy, but stating that Marvel is paint-by-the-numbers only accounts for the not-so-great movies they put out like Thor 2 and Iron Man 2 and Ultron, which while not great, were never as bad or as off target as BvS, to be fair. At least they keep the characters charming or interesting for one scene.

They have consistent characterization, even if the final result was bland. It's not even about fun, it's charisma and assertiveness on putting their characters on screen and never skimping on having one good moment with them, even if it's just the suit-up sequence.

Shit like the party scene in AoU, or Thor putting the hammer in the coat-hanger in Thor 2 or Rhodey/Tony mowing down robots in IM2 go a long fucking way in an otherwise bland movie.

What was you favorite superman scene in BvS? He did absolutely nothing worth talking about or rejoice over after it was done. How come they have him in a trial scene where they spend 20 seconds looking at a jar of piss, but can't find time for Superman to say one fuckign word. Just one! They show him walking the hallways pissed, and when presented with the shit he obviously didn't even have anything to do, they have him look at the jar of piss and the explosion. Might as well have had the curb your enthusiasm song after that.

Where's simple characterizatin like pic-related?

Just get a character-driven direction and start adapting elseworlds. Zack Snyder's Justice League is only going to bring it further down. Start adapting elsewolrds instead, with Zack Snyder inside a box. Better yet, multiple boxes.

>>82337196
>only wasn't dropped because firing the director one week before shooting and with BATMAN V SUPERMAN struggling with critics and box office would look disastrous.
i get that it would have looked bad because only realizing how horrible the movie was after release makes them seem incompetent but ignoring how obviously poorly suited to the role the man is looks even worse

The only way the DCEU can fail is if they keep Zack "The Hack' Snyder to direct JL even after his other 2 movies being shit. I think their just waiting for Civil War to come out to see if they should put the final nail in the coffin for Snyder.

>>82339383
Because this was their Avengers. If the most bombastic trademarks they have to their disposal only make their investment back, what hopes are there for the less known ones?

>>82339443
When I went to see tthe 4th one, most everyone in the theater felt kinda dead, like no one was really enjoying it, or they figured "might as well kill some time today".
almost every Transformers screening story I hear ends with one Mexican kid clapping, but nobody joins and he awkwardly stops.

>>82339468
That's what George Miller was supposed to do with Justice League: Mortal

Then the Writers' Strike happened and it got canceled.

>>82338509
Fuck off faggot, a lot of people do.

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>>82339383 here. So I decided to see the charts for the Avengers 2, sort of inspired by >>82339418 (I decided not to include Avengers 1, as that's been listed as one of the top grossing movies of all time already). Surprisingly, it had the same budget as Batman V. Superman. The profit margin is obviously very different, though.

>>82339440

I need to rewatch it to see what's so bad about it, because I don't remember finding it particularly offensive.

Then again, it was my introduction to GL and I only saw it once.

Not that I've had the best taste in movies. apparently, every movie I've liked in recent years besides deadpool has been raked over the coals more than I feel is needed.

the DCEU has shit foundation. Building a cinematic universe off MoS is like trying to build a house on pogo sticks.

>>82339524
This guy just sums up the point of the thread.

>>82339579
the only thing I really remember about it is how this was a movie about a guy with a magic space ring who goes to space and yadda yadda and the thing that broke my suspension of disbelief was that the love interest ex-boyfriend was some super creepy lookin dude

>>82339579
It was bland

Swolehead was more sympathetic than Hal and didn't deserve the shit he went through

CGI costume looked like green bacon

Parallax and Yellow Lanterns blown in the first movie

Earth setting was boring compared to space and he's hardly on Oa

>>82339557
a lot of hipsters

>look at me! I like a less popular hero!I am so better than THOSE casuals

>>82339472
Don't you mean you want Deadshot as Will Smith?

>>82339665
>Starts with an badly done infodump with a voiceover/still image of Abin Sur
>then show him in action anyway

>>82339683
I dont like when faggots race change characters, but Deadshot is my favorite DC villain, so i'll give it a chance. He better have his fucking mask for more than just 2 minutes.

>>82337196
oh look more rumors and misinformation
getting all those critics ready to completely destroy those movies when they finally come out because of the unwritten rule that if a movie has a troubled production it must be shitted on regardless of how it turns out

Jesus Christ Disney, what more will it take?

>>82339674
you dont have to be a hipster to like an obscure thing if you did nothing would ever become mainstream
also dident brave and the bold make aquaman popular as fuck

>>82337600
Because ocean 11 needed eleven movies to set up all the characters.

The problem was that they double down on Snyder who it clearly does not understand comics. He looks at them for face value and didn't actually take the time to understand them.

Which is why we end up with DRK and Death of Superman at the last act with none of the story elements that made these memorable.

>>82339598
Zack Snyder is essentially making these weird, sorta meta superhero movies like Watchmen, pointing out what most people have been saying about superheroes, them being modern Greek myths and all that crap, and trying to act clever by addressing these similarities with the exact characters that people have used as the basis for these essays and analyses. It just comes off more as pretentious fanfiction, basically.
Zack Snyder is if Michael Bay tried to be Alejandro Inarritu

>>82339745
Ant-Man came out fine.

The sad thing is, the actors are actually trying. Snyder failed you before with Watchmen, why the fuck are your letting him do anything bigger!? Not since 2006, a decade ago, has his movies ever been liked by fans and critics. Even then, 300 wasn't that well regarded.

all you had to do is hire Tim and Dini for these movies CJ.

>>82339567
Yup, Avengers AoU was very mediocre yet it made 600mil more than BvsS

How the hell do you justify that? The movie had Batman AND Superman AND Wonder Woman, everyone knows those heroes. Such utter failures.

You know what would have been WAY better? Batman AND Superman: the movie

Imagine a movie based, not on a fight, but a partnership that's never been seen before on the big screen

There are already so many books and tv shows that have Batman and Superman working together to fight crime

Why couldn't they have thought of that instead? Fuck WB producers and Execs for not knowing better

Batman could be doing all the spy detective work while Superman is out punching bad guys and saving cats from trees.

Batman could even be like Superman's Alfred. By his side, in his ear, training a new hero how to be a hero for humanity and why it means so much to so many people to have Superman in world to look up to and aspire to.

then wonder woman shows up or aquaman or some shit and the movie gets even better or whatever

As someone who hasn't seen a superhero movie since SM3, its fascinating watching all this from an outside perspective.

>>82339142
isn't there a bunch of shazams

>>82339745
Fury Road had a troubled production. became the most critically aclaimed movie last year. and that was from WB

>>82339774
>>82337937
You guys always say this but it really doesn't seem to be the case. If you need these characters to be interesting enough to carry a solo film after the ensemble film than they better all have a good chunk devoted to them, or else they end up like Hawkeye in the marvel movies who know one knows shit about, except he has a family I guess.

>>82339674
Eh anyone who bothers to read a comic. Yep, totally hipster there.

>>82339731
I'm just hoping for more than a couple of minutes of screen time that shit looks so Harley and joker centered the is not even funu

>>82339326
Generally they lose people between movies though. One director makes a movie that doesn't quite work, and they decide to go a different direction for the sequel. This sort of thing happened with Thor 2 and Ant-Man, but that's about it. And that wasn't until Phase 2.

Batman v Superman was way more interesting than any of the current crop of comic book movies though. It's just that Snyder clearly isn't interested in giving the fans what they want. I'm sure WB could hire some journeyman to come in and do a by the number JL movie that hits all the required beats, but I'd rather see what Snyder has in store.

>>82337748
>"No no no... Hal is GL. Sure, 10x as many people know John as GL... but Hal is who we're making GL."
We all know it wasn't WB's call on that, it was most likely Geoff Johns stroking himself off to his Hal pillow

>>82339801
You know what's odd? Zack Snyder (the same guy who made that badass Dawn of the Dead remake) is compared to Directors like Michael Bay and joel schumacher nowadays. Why did he turn into complete shit? What the fuck is his problem?

>>82339825
It's not that Batman v. Superman is an inherently bad idea (although it sort of is, given how OP Superman is). It's that 1) It was written and directed by Zach Snyder, and 2) It was a sequel to a movie written and directed by Zach Snyder, and had to be consistent with what came before.

>>82339731
It's not really a race change this time, it's just Will Smith is a huge fucking star

>>82339142
to be fair he
just got his powerset completely changed

>>82339827
Fuck you Boco

Since SM3? Was the movie that bad that you quit watching superhero movies or what?

>>82339883
Oh he will. I mean him fucking Harley will take more than a couple of minutes.

>>82339889
Is that your best excuse to justify that shitty movie?

>>82339280
wait why does having a co director look bad

>>82339949
Neither Man of Steel OR BvS are written by Snyder

>>82339889
I see that alot as a defense recently, but really what does it add? you still have alot of borrowed elements from other comic movies. the story, broken down, is just basically Avengers but replace aliens with Doomsday. and the "superman must face his consequences" doesnt resonate well when you have a clear focus on Batman that overshadows the whole movie

>>82338651
That's...a really appropriate switch

>>82339956
that raises a good point
is it really a race change if your only doing it because you think the actor would do really well in that roll rather then because your going out of your way to change the race.

>>82339983
>makes them look bad
If they KEEP Snyder, they'll look even more bad.

>>82339910

At this point its looking like DotD was beginner's luck.

>>82339968

A mixture of that and laziness, yes.

Look Im all for doing something different and Im not going to say the Marvel formula is the only way to do things, but who here thinks they should have had solo installments BEFORE having characters meet up in a clusterfuck?

>>82340016
Will Smith could have played Superman & people would have loved it

>>82340057
Don't push it.

>>82340017
indeed i think i mentioned this earlier in the thread myself
>>82339516

>think anon is screwing around

>it's rule

Shit, the Flash's director just up and left?

>>82339910
If Snyder's last film was Watchmen how would he be viewed today?

Squid complaints and all, his reputation was still pretty good until Sucker Punch.

After Dawn of the Dead and 300 he was the shit, now he's just shit. It's sad.

>>82340057
he did
hypercrisis?

>>82340006
It's only the same as The Avengers if you describe the plot so vaguely as to be meaningless. "Superheroes fight threat" is about all they have in common.

>>82340056
WB isn't confident enough of their movies outside of Batman & Supes to do well

WW movies & co were suppose to ride on BvS's success, but we all know how that turned out

>>82340056

Um, yeah. Thats one of the major problems with WB's approach. That and thinking a character's name will be enough for make up for the quality of the story or director.

>>82340057
>Will Smith could have played Superman & people would have loved it
We already had that though. Hancock.

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>>82339432
Bruce Timm admitted before that they had to lower the power levels of heroes like Superman and Martian Manhunter so that they didn't defeat enemies too quickly and they could actually be in danger.

Warner Bros is literally doing the exact opposite. They're just making everyone stronger. Snyder is literally trying his hardest to make them into "gods" with all of his religious symbolism and shit. Not saying that it's bad for them to be powerful but that shouldn't be the main thing to focus on about them. Fuck, I hate how clueless they are.

>>82337196
>DCEU IN CRISIS
>CRISIS
you're one dumb motherfucker

There's no bad news anywhere in there. Flash director directs nothing but shit. James wan can fuck off. His movies aren't that great eithe he's not hot shit or anything.

Snyder is based as always.

Fuck Cyborg, Static shock movie when?

And Batman is always great

>>82340082
Supes is an alien, he can be Black, the same goes for Goku funny enough when people bitched he was White

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>>82337887
>Tfw there will never be a "Mad Stan Blows the DCEU Up" film resulting in a total reboot

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MEANWHILE AT DC

>>82339910
i dunno, i was fair and tried to give a guy a chance. The Dawn of the Dead remake wasnt terrible, 300 is fun. I went to Sucker Punch at the theater for god's sake. looking at his credits, and not the actual quality of the movies, he has a dream career.
He's not necessarily Michael Bay, but he's a blockbuster director with so much pretentiousness. And if he was like Inarritu, and made at least one good film to excuse the pretensions, Id be fine. but after BvS, Im just done. I didnt even hate BvS, but thats when I stopped getting the idea that he might git gud

>>82339910
Joel Schumacher's not even a bad director. He gets too much heat for his Batman movies, which had dumb decisions sure but he's made plenty more movies.

>>82340113
Here's your (you)

let's continue the thread

>>82340057
Will Smith as Val-Zod when?

>>82340088
Snyder was still loved by Fanboys after Watchmen

Sucker Punch didn't really change much, it was kinda seen as "oh he wanted to do his weird little pet project but it didn't work out oh well"

Man of Steel is where he started to draw fanboy ire because of ZOD'S SNAPPED NECK

>>82337196

Suicide Squad has Joker...Batman well that's self explanatory. Creative differences...hmm studio meddling or are the directors actually shit? Cyborg in Flash works better than him getting his own movie anyway. I actually would like to see the rest of the movies though.

They should step back and just wait, or tone it down a bit with a smaller movie that doesn't NEED to make big Avenger bucks to be suscesful, it worked for Fox with Deadpool. What they've been doing for a long time now is pay catch up with MCU, and it is severely hurting the quality of the movies they are making.

>>82338189
At least there's a timeline you can think about.

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>>82340090
>>82340104
lol

>>82340006
Snyder's film is actual interesting to look at for one. Also he's committed to exploring notions of power, paranoia, and vengeance. It's way more of a mood piece than any comic book movie released in this decade.

>>82340142

Said dumb decisions weren't even his, by the way.

Poor guy.

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>>82339567
>>82339383

For direct comparison. Similar idea, similar concepts (unnecessary dream sequences, needless foreshadowing of future movies, wanton mass destruction), massively different budget returns

So how long before we hear hair pulling, severe behind he scenes drama like Trank had? Because that shit was documentary worthy

>>82340172
Even the bat nipples, crotch and butt shots?

>>82340093
I think theres more to it. Avengers was about guys who dont really like eachother, they get played by the villian, who has some plan thats kinda vague, the villian has either aliens or Doomsday to destroy the city, the heroes unite over a common goal (Avengers, Coulson, BvS, "MARTHA!")

>>82338060
Godzilla wasn't that bad, and Civil War is Civil War in name only, it's far off from the retardation of the comic of the same name. Other than that, I agree. It seems like a lot of shit with potential turned out to be garbage recently.

>>82340152
>Snyder was still loved by Fanboys after Watchmen

My issue with Watchmen is Zack Snyder may have directed it, but he didn't really DO anything with it other than make it absolutely loyal to the comic. Shot-for-shot, scene-for-scene, line-for-line, with only the most minor of changes.

Plus cutting the squid in favor of a Dr. Manhattan Bomb, but if we're being honest with ourselves that really makes more sense.

Any success Watchmen has should be laid at the feet of Alan Moore, not Zack Snyder.

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>>82340130
>Zack Snyder inside DC
"The bad reviews were part of the plan! I love that this movie is causing so much debate. When has a Marvel movie ever caused this much debate? Let's fuck these characters up even more and more!"

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>>82337196
Their biggest mistake was snubbing their tv successes.

They have a built-in audience with a lot of goodwill that they established with their tv shows. THAT was their MCU phase 1. They could have trailblazed and really aligned their tv and movie universes together. Can you imagine Agents of Shield actually having Robert Downy guest star? Stuff like that.

Instead they not only ignore the only currently successful media product they've created, but actively forbid the use of some characters for fear of "confusing" viewers while schizophrenically doing things like casting a Mexican flash.

I don't understand how any of these people are still employed.

>>82338898

Your actual suggestions for movies are total shit/no taste tier but you are right that Cavil and Affleck weren't the problem. Snyder, Goyer should be banished. Let Affleck, Geoff Johns and Terrio do everything. No joke would save everyone alot of grief.

>>82340160
Deadpool was only a success because Fox didn't give a fuck, they wanted it to be R rated & Fox were like "whatever"

This is one IP where Marvel would have done a worse job because they would 100% make it PG-13

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>>82340130

>DC

>Dumpster Conflagration

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>>82337856
C'mon Anon, cheer up.

Remember, unlike the Justice League movie, you're not being directed by Zack Synder, so you always have the chance to improve yourself.

>>82340210

Well, okay, maybe those.

But that was probably after WB mandated that it be a glorified toy commercial.

I guess we should be thankful they aren't still doing THAT.

>>82340120
Krypton's red sun basically ensures that no one would be black. Though we don't know the full intricacies, but the conditions for black skin simply weren't met on their planet. Except in that uh, alternate earth I guess.

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>>82340174
The image did not need to be this big. Better version

Ever get the feeling WB just has unreasonable contempt for the material their working with? Like they hate the fact that comics have canon and they refuse to read anything other than cliffnotes on what makes characters tick. Because lets face facts people: Marvel made Guardians and Ant Man work and earned a shitton.

>>82340221
>but if we're being honest with ourselves that really makes more sense
I respectfully disagree.

>>82340174
Not a fair comparison, is it? 23 weeks vs 5 weeks?

Anyway, AoU was considered a disappointment at Disney too. And even before it came out Feige had chosen to pump CAPTAIN AMERICA 3 full of Avengers so it could compete with BvS.

The difference I guess is that Feige has enough control/confidence that he's able to do these moves without panicking everybody. I don't know how well CIVIL WAR will do but it is getting better reviews than AoU and it does set up the Black Panther and Spider-Man movies successfully. Again, I don't think DC has someone steering the ship quite in that way.

>>82340152
>oh he wanted to do his weird little pet project but it didn't work out oh well
its weird how calm people were about that movies fate
i mean it was sensible because it was exactly what you said but its still odd

>>82340262
But there are black Kryptonians on Vathlo Island or something.

>>82340232
>Mexican
Hes just Jewish

Also excuse me but I dont want green Batman, Felishitty or Daniel Panabaker anywhere near a cinematic universe

They gave Justice League to this fucking retard? He clearly knows nothing about comics and just pulls this shit out of his ass. This is the fucking guy the retards over at Warner Bros gave Superman. BvS, and Justice League to. This fucking talentless hack of a director will be directing perhaps the biggest film in WB history, and it will be awful. If WB had the balls, they'd fire this sad sack of shit before fucks up their universe even more.

https://youtu.be/m6vsBx5Pexk

>>82340171
problem is hes no good at exploring those themes

>TDKR
>Jonah Hex
>Green Lantern
>MoS
>BvS
Anyone still having a shred of hope for DC's movies is delusional. WB's been producing literally nothing but turd after turd after turd for years now. Don't except any gold to fall off that asshole any time soon.

>>82340171
I disagree. I think bringing up those ideas, but never tying them to the central conflict in a meaningful way, is just bad writing. I just think the movie never does anything with its commentary. its kinda just there, its interesting to listen to, I guess...but then you cut to Lex luthor being off his meds and saying some shit about anggels and demons

>>82340232
They shouldn't be bothering with a shared universe at all. This is the main problem. They're trying to compete with Marvel in that area and completely shooting themselves in the foot. Make every movie standalone. Explore as many genres as possible.

>>82340210
>not liking the crotch and butt shots
the nipples were stupid i will give you that

>>82339579

It just is.

Reynolds is miscast as Hal (he is better suited for Kyle or maybe even Guy).

They infodump the GL lore in voice over at the start of the movie.

They WASTE Kilogow, Toma Re and Sinestro.

The character arc they set Sinestro in makes no sense.

Parallax is utterly destroyed as an antagonist, and they decide to have Hal do it on his own, when the logical thing to do was GL teamwork (but they ran out of money by then).

>>82340211
That's the nature of team up movies, but The Avengers were at worst not good team players, they weren't trying to KILL each other.

>>82340145
Stay mad you know I'm right 100%

>>82340232
100% this.

Are you me?

Snyder will be out after Civil War opens in America.

>>82340275

Well, Zack Snyder explicitly said reading the comic beforehand was "pointless" and told the actors not to do so, so...

>>82340285
Well, let me rephrase. It's more narratively "tight". Instead of having Ozymandius' plan revolve around making the world believe about the potential for some kind of alien invasion out of nowhere - which Ozy can never duplicate now that he's killed everyone involved - Ozy played on existing fears of Doctor Manhattan in the USSR and compounded the sense of betrayal on the part of Manhattan in the USA.

Basically the plan has less moving parts to it, which usually makes for a better plan.

>>82340275

I kind of get the opposite vibe. Marvel wants to make crowd pleasers and has a solid formula but most of it involves comedy action that's vaguely self-deprecating entirely because the villains and plots are so light you can't really take anything seriously. WB on the other hand is so obsessed with not copying Disney that they've modeled things after Nolan's Batman trilogy which doesn't really fit Justice League characters but definitely Batman. They are much more interested in deconstructing the characters and are overall much darker and more violent. It's hard to compare as basically BvS is DC's Iron Man 2 while Disney Marvel has like 20 movies under their belt. Anyway I prefer CW DC and Marvel Netflix so what do I know?

>>82340221
>>82340285
I disrespectfully disagree.

While a squid would make for a weird tonal change, using Dr. Manhattan as a patsy instead of a common enemy makes no sense.

It goes against the point that he leaves earth because he is bored and replaces it with him being a martyr instead.

Also, Rorschach being the hero and Ozymandias being that much of a villain and Nite Owl being Batman is fucking idiotic.

In fact, it's impressive how well Zack caught the images on screen yet still managed to produce a much less interesting story.

>>82337196
The problem is that the execs don't have any confidence in the DCEU because public opinion is overwhelmingly negative. Which sucks. I wish it would just progress as Snyder intended.

>>82340369
Perhaps they can retool SS, WW and JL to be standalone, despite having the same cast members.

Like comic miniseries.

>>82340275

The WB suits don't care. They honestly don't. DC is like the red-headed stepchild WB keeps around, but doesn't want to put effort into. So they choose a trendy guy who sounds like he kind of knows about comic books and let him build the universe with little oversight.

>>82340174
>>82340270
Careful friends, I got banned for posting the Paul Blart/BvS RT comparison without any accompanying text.

Some of the janitors might get upset that their favourite franchise is tanking.

>>82340337
It's a shame about how the crappy movie poisoned the Jonah Hex well. I'd give my left ball and my left Navy for a good mini-series on a premium network or somesuch.

>>82340221
>missing the entire point of the Watchmen finale

>>82340402
Snyder is the cowboy happily riding a bomb right now.

>>82340352
>>82340315
How does it never do anything with it's commentary? The turning point of the whole movie happens when Batman stops seeing Superman as an inhuman threat and sees him as a man like himself.

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>>82340287
>23 weeks vs 5 weeks

That is true, actually. So let's take a look at how Avengers 2 did at the 5 week mark ($431,813,896)

Now if we look at BvS, we'd see it's at almost double that. So it's doing fairly well for the moment (unless it drops off massively)

>>82340313
This is all I need to see just to give up on DC movies. Yeah I'm sure SS and the solo Batman films will be great, but whats the point when He's already done a shit done of damage and will just destroy JL

>>82340402

Matt Damon should have been the Flash also seriously replace Goyer and Synder with Terrio and Affleck completely. I'm tired of seeing Goyder in all the credits.

>>82340056
They should started the way Marvel did, absolutely. They didn't because WB were absolutely desperate to get those avengerbux ASAP.

What they should have done is
>Find someone less shit than Snyder (I know this is only with the benefit of hindsight, but MoS was a massive red flag and they should have never let him direct BvS, let alone JL)
>Superman movie, done correctly. Make Superman at least attempt to stop Zod knocking down every building in sight instead of joining in on the fun.
>Superman & Batman movie, done correctly. I think the premise (Batman fighting Superman) could work in theory and it would be a good way to validate his spot in the JL. No fucking scenes where someone shows off every other JL member, WW has a small cameo at the very most.
>Wonder Woman movie
>Flash movie

And then the Justice League movie. Less popular heroes like Cyborg and Aquaman are finally shown off to get people excited instead of WB blowing their load during the shitty scene in BvS. Then those characters get their own solo movies afterwards.

Aquaman has such a bad public image that I don't think a pre-JL movie would do well in the box office, show him being cool in JL first and then people would maybe be excited to see him.

>>82340443

>The WB suits don't care. They honestly don't. DC is like the red-headed stepchild WB keeps around, but doesn't want to put effort into

See also: DC Nation.

>>82340322

Switching directors matters depending on WHEN you switch them. At the outset, there's no problem.

The farther in production you go, the more damaging a director change becomes.

Only 2 things can save this entire shitshow and its Suicide Squad and Bens Batman solo. Id hate to use the "it needs to be fun!" argument and I dont think everything needs to be light hearted whatever, but I cant sit through pretentious symbolic bullshit again

>>82340459
>>82340392

SEE >>82340388.

Don't get me wrong, I love the squid. But using Manhattan feels more narratively "tight" and means that Ozy's plan has less moving parts to it, which generally makes for a better plan.

>>82339910

That badass Dawn of the Dead remake completely removed the subtext and comentary from the Romero classic.

>>82340513

Let Ben direct everything? The end.

>Batman cameos in everything (make him Nick Fury just do it)

>>82340374
true. It's just BvS, with any new talking points it brings up, doesnt do much with them, or articulate them.
also why give Lex Luthor these elegant philosophical ponderings when he's just played up as a straight up psycho? Heath Ledger's Joker was at least articulate and, in a way charismatic.

>>82340292
they were calm because he wasn't using pre-exisitng characters.

Snyder does not want to make movies that are simply "good time cape comic movies" he wants to recontextualize everything, he's obsessed with framing everything within his own mold, regardless of what everyone else wants.

I think MoS and BvS are far more interesting than any of the MCU movies as I feel theyre designed as original ideas using comics as a springboard, and don't care about aligning to general view of a particular character but not everyone agrees, whatever.

>>82340514
>feels more narratively "tight"

So you missed the point of the squid?

>>82340388
My biggest problem with Manhattan instead of the ayy lmao is that Manhattan was the face of American imperialism for decades. Why wouldn't people blame America for letting their monster off of its leash, or suspect that it was a false-flag or something along those lines?

That, and it misses the point of the squid.

>>82340232
You and others that think this would work are bonkers absolutely bonkers.

Grant has no movie presence and the shows campness just would not translate well into the big screen. Granted all I've seen is a supergirl crossover for like 7 minutes with him in it and that was absolute trash. He was very bad and can't act and so is the super girl show.

You're out of your mind

>>82340490
>Superman movie, done correctly. Make Superman at least attempt to stop Zod knocking down every building in sight instead of joining in on the fun

You know with how much of a Dragon Ball Z movie Man of Steel was, they forgot to add that Goku always gets the villains to fight away from the Cities, how hard was it for Supes to do that? fuck it would have been so much cheaper to film as well

>>82339501
>>82339381
I knew we shared the board with Prequel apologists, but anon please.

>>82340538

/this

I'm glad someone is trying to deconstruct some of these characters. Synder isn't the best but he definitely wasn't trying to make a status quo or safe movie at all. Gotta give him some thumbs up for that despite the film really needing like 30 mins cut.

>>82340523
the subtext in the original DoTD was sophomoric at best. Not exactly a crime against cinema.

>>82340534

>Batman cameos in everything

Just like in the comics!

You know WB should have started this whole thing with a lesser known. Think about it. What if Marvel began this whole thing with Spider Man with the mindset "it will make money, because its fucking Spidey". But that didnt happen, they used Iron Man, who was relatively unknown at the time. And they were terrified. So much so they were hell bent on making a good movie

>>82337837
JL/JLU cartoon. Not a terrible thought that John Stewart would be more known to a generation of kids.

>>82340337
TDKR was a good movie despite the memes.

>>82340142

I've seen his other movies, and yeah, the dude is good.

WB has been fucking with their cinematic universes since forever, basically.

Though I do throw most of the blame of our current one on Snyder.

>>82340625
I mean, there were more than a few problems, but I think TDKR's biggest downfall (along with the massive pacing issues) was being a follow up to The Dark Knight. How do you even top that?

>>82340553
The point of the squid was to get the world scared enough of an outside threat that it unites rather than going to war with itself and causing Armageddon.

The Watchmen movie achieved the exact same thing, but did so by having Ozy make the world think that the godlike Dr. Manhattan had gone rogue and decided to kill millions of people for no good reason. It's tighter, more focused. Both are good ideas but Dr. Manhattan going rogue uses an already extant element rather than adding in a new one.

Additionally, by using Dr. Manhattan, we keep to the idea that he's the only superpowered being in the Watchmen universe (which has a major effect on its tone and narrative); whereas the squid depends on the idea that at least a few people are legitimately psychic to some greater or lesser extent, a fact which, beyond them being cloned and spiced together to create the squid's brain, is otherwise never important to the plot.

>>82340474
because of "MARTHA!" ? its not like he didnt acknowledge Superman didnt have parents. he just didnt care. suddenly hes like "you mom's name is Martha? well youre ok in my book". that felt sloppy considering hes ignoring the possibilty of Superman being evil, considering the dream sequence earlier, and the fact Superman is still a God that needs to learn how to cope with the world he's in.
Its less about "realizing he's a man", and more tat the screenwriters didnt think about their decisions and expect you, (yes (You)) to fill in the blanks and think that they actually achieved something

If anyone really wants schadenfreude, WB is having their Q1 earnings call next Wednesday. This whole debacle will certainly garner significant talktime.

>>82340538
and to follow up on that real briefly,

Thats also the reason that Snyder is the wrong person to head up a cinematic universe, which is at its core an idea that amounts to nothing more than hooking people to maximize profits.

The concept is completely at odds with Snyders sensibilities.

Im loving it, but people who just want to see MCU version 2.0, which is really what general audiences want, arent going to.

>>82339825
>The movie had Batman AND Superman AND Wonder Woman, everyone knows those heroes
People always say that but how many people actually care?
Aside from Batman I never hear normies talking about the others. I'd put Superman and Wonder Woman below Wolverine in terms of interest even.

>>82340601

Ita Romero. Most of his subtext is by accident.

>>82340537
It articulates it's ideas plenty. Like how Batman's desire to bring down Superman is presented as rational when really it's driven by anger and fear. Alfred points out that Batman had been torturing people to no actual success, it was Bruce Wayne that got the info he needed. Bruce has been going about things in a way that satisfies his need for violence but doesn't actually help. Superman is shown to be compromised by his human relationships but they also ennoble him. Would he have a stake in this world without them? Luthor is driven by jealousy and hate towards a God that he feels Superman represents. The movie doesn't really reconcile the various viewpoints it presents (maybe they can't be?) but it does explore them.

>>82340523
I never said it was anywhere close to the OG DOTD.

>>82340171
Yeah nothing like ripping entire scenes off from Excalibur. When I found out Snyder was a fan of Ayn Rand it all made sense

>>82340666

Having good fights and making Bane and Talia comic book level competent. Don't be so ashamed of Robin and actually have Dick Grayson be a named character/useful. Cat Woman didn't bother me too much tho.

Would have topped DK easy.

>>82337196
>source is Devin Faraci

FUCK YOU
made me click

>>82340476
that is interesting

>>82340672
He realised Superman was trying to save his mother, he saw himself in Supes. That's what made him put down the spear.

>>82340718
>Would he have a stake in this world without them?

YES!

BECAUSE HE'S HUMAN IN EVERYTHING BUT BIOLOGY!

HE WAS RAISED IN KANSAS FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!

>>82340618
JL was my generation and I love Hal more. John just didnt stick with people because he was grumpy buzzkill that honestly ruined parts of the show in a way. Everytime he speaks, you know it's gonna be about shit you dont care about, or him bitching about something.

>>82340760
But it's a world that distrusts and rejects him, he could just stop being Superman. Why is it on him to right wrongs for a world that maybe doesn't want to be saved?

>>82340490
how it it that so many random anons have a better idea of how to make a movie franchise work then the professionals at warner bros
are wb just not trying or something

We can expect more drama reports as soon as BvS hits Bluray. Things will be hush hush for the sake of remaining box office revenue

>>82340797

Fans sometimes know best.

>>82340797
Because for every anon that knows what he's talking about, there's 4+ that don't

I thought BvS was pretty good, really looking forward to the Director's Cut.

>>82337726

Black Lightning family themed movie has the makings of a great film.

>>82340760
he was raised by a guy that kept telling him how shit humans are, on the verge of collapse and tearing society apart if they knew alien where real

MoS also showed that he was often bullied, it's a fucking miracle this Superman didn't become a super villain

>>82340358
Was this deleted cause you said a naughty word?

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>>82340817
>Fans sometimes know best.

>>82340514

Eh, not a better plan. It makes for a better MOVIE NARRATIVE. But it still misses the point of why the threat had to be alien.

>>82340668
>Both are good ideas but Dr. Manhattan going rogue uses an already extant element rather than adding in a new one.

You just confirmed why you don't get the point of the squid.

The fact that the squid is a new, completely irreverent and crazy new element to the story is what makes it important. The shock of a giant thing unlike it's never been seen is what Veidt envisions would put the world on notice and end their petty disputes. Without the squid, the book suggests, the cold war tensions would go on.

>>82337837
Yes, John had a stronger impression on the Justice League cartoon than anything featuring Hal. There was strong backlash over John not being the Green Lantern in the movie, because John was the only Green Lantern people knew about.

>>82340322
>drew at hitfix
Not this faggot again

>>82340881

Exactly. And Doc M being a US poster child breaks it all.

>>82340881
Not to mention that Dr. Manhattan going rogue would always make the Soviets blame the US for not handling their shit correctly and making him a weapon in the first place. Deservingly or not.

>>82340793
because his upbringing teaches him to do so

>>82340793
>Why is it on him to right wrongs for a world that maybe doesn't want to be saved?

Because that's who Superman IS. You might as well ask why Robin Hood gives to the poor when they aren't willing to rise up and steal from the rich themselves. Those with the power to do good have the moral obligation to do good. That is at the center of every single superhero. It is the central tenet of cape comics and has been since they first premiered.

If you're trying to make the argument that this entire movie is SuperJesus in Gethsemane, you'd almost be on to something if not for the fact that we already did that exact thing back in Man of Steel.

>>82340718
Youre certainly right about Batman. and that was the best parts of the movie. to me, presenting Lex as this crazed, Joker-esque guy does a disservice to that viewpoint. Because, who would care, because he's visibly unhinged. It just goes back to how in the comics Lex was this complex villian, now hes a lunatic who's being used by Darkseid or whoever.
And superman's part feels like if Martin Scorsese made "The Last Temptation of Christ", then cut out most of the parts with Jesus' feelings and insights on his own life. and you repeat the scene with David Bowie 5 more times

>>82340754
yeah, he saw a fucking selfish douchebag in superman and joined him, go figure

>>82340929
>>82340957
Precisely.

Losing the squid also reinforces why the Watchmen movie is such a flat experience. Details like the squid weren't chosen at random. It's setup constantly both storywise and thematically throughout the book, referring to Cthulhu mythos and the monster age of comic book.

>>82340504

There have been Marvel movies that have jumped ship close to filming.

They're also miserable creatively more often than not with the Russo's being some weird anomaly because it seems they can do whatever they want.

>>82340862
>he was raised by a guy that kept telling him how shit humans are
>STOP INVINCIBLE SON

So a shit character choice in the previous movie lead to shit decisions in this movie. We are on a shit train to Shitsville, it seems.

>>82341004
>Doesn't want his mother to be burned alive=Selfish Douchebag

Jesus Christ, no wonder Superman is hard to write for if that makes people hate him.

>>82341024
>They're also miserable creatively more often than not with the Russo's being some weird anomaly because it seems they can do whatever they want.
That seems to be the case with the Avengers but it seems like the solo movies, anything can go as long as the hero is alive in the end.
I mean you can hear how much shit they added to things like Antman and GotG just because Paul Rudd or someone was like
>lmao what if we just added this shit in.

I could go for a Teen Titans movie. You don't really need to have individual movies to set that up, necessarily. It could be like GotG, just give a short bio on each character, highlight their most important character attributes, and you're good. Why Cyborg is considered so important that they needed to give him his own film and make him a Justice League member, I'll never know. If they just thought they needed a Black guy on the team, they should have gone with John Stewart.

>>82337726
BL is about the same tier as cyborg making it come down to preference. However BL has some drag points with being associated with the old JL cartoon, having the electricty sterotype, and black in the name.

MM would be a cop out as he is a green alien who just decides to be black because why not.

Static has too many strings attached that DC doesn't want to deal with.

DC doesn't want to push John cause reasons.

That leaves a bunch of Z listers that are either tied up in other teams or aren't even around in the current DC universe.

>>82341012
Fair enough, but like I said it creates the issue that a HUGE point of Watchmen is that Dr. Manhattan is the only being with super-powers, yet the squid's first purpose (dying and in so doing releasing a psionic shockwave that kills millions in the NYC area) depends on there being psychics in the world, yet the fact that there are psychics in the world is never touched upon outside of explanations about how the squid functions.

>>82341055
missing the point again!

maybe he shouldve thought about that before being a bitch and getting his as handed to him by Batman, of all people

>>82340978
To be fair, a good chunk of Clark scenes were deleted and will be put back in the extra 30 minutes of the Director's Cut

>>82340978
Lex isn't being used by Darkseid, like Bruce he's a damaged man driven to project his own faults onto the world. Also the balcony scene with Lois is Superman looking at his own life and how it fits into the world he lives in. He's trying to do good, but he's so alienated and unsure of himself.

>>82341070

Ant-Mam lost the director it had from before Marvel even regained the rights because of creative differences though.

Then you have the Thor 2 mess, Iron Man's director making an entire movie about his experience with IM2 being an executive mess, I've heard Johnston wasn't all that won over. Plus they're now having problems finding directors for some movies like Black Panther and apparently Captain Marvel.

>>82341147
if thats the case, Ill be free to give them slack.

Im just judging by what they gave the general audience. unlike most people I wanted to like this movie

Id like to remind everyone that rumors circled that Darkseid would be quote "a force of nature" that would create nightmares in each league member thus creating self doubt. So in short another fucking cloud and more senseless dream bullshit

>>82341196
jesus christ if they want to do shit like that just make a fucking justice league dark movie

>>82337196
Seth-Grahame Smith has only screenwritten 2 movies in his career in Hollywood which is Abraham Vampire Hunter and Dark Shadows which were both not successful.

James Wan hasn't dropped out yet.

Shazam getting delayed is not that surprising. The only development known is the casting of Black Adam played by Dwayne. Which most people would've wanted, because he has the 'looks' and is fucking huge.

Justice League Dark being dead is old news. Since Deltoro can't get the funding, nor to Hell Boy 3 and Pacific Rim 2.

Cyborg. Did anyone actually want a solo fucking Cyborg?

Suicide Squad and The Batman directed by, played by, written by Ben Affleck are the only positive outlooks? Stop stating the obvious you fuck.

>>82341161
again, filling in the blanks. I did not get any sense of uncertainty from Lex. YOU might be saying that, but I didnt get that vibe from what te movie gave me. and I saw it twice, and hopefully not a moron.
the only reason I bring up Darkseid is the people who defend Lex being weird. I could give a shit either way.

>>82337196
Speaking of DCU in trouble

What was their deal getting the milestone rights and not doing anything with it?
Will we see more static shock?

When will we see milestone reprints

>>82341116
>BL is about the same tier as cyborg making it come down to preference. However BL has some drag points with being associated with the old JL cartoon, having the electricty sterotype, and black in the name.
The electric sterotype is not really a thing anyone thinks about, especially outside of /co/, that's not something anyone would care about.

And no one gives a fuck about Black Panther so I don't see why the latter is a problem.

>>82341116

But Black Lightning has a hook no other hero movie has. His daughters.

Family dynamic is rarely used like that in comics and is fully lacking in superhero movies. It's unique and these films need unique.

>>82338883
Black people are incredibly racist.

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Batman v Superman was an incredibly awful film, Man of Steel already left a bad taste in everyone's mouths, and Suicide Squad is getting reshoots so it can only be about 5% less gritty than originally intended

They nailed the DC Universe years ago with their animated universe, why they didn't model their cinematic universe after it, and picked a different creative lead besides Hack Snyder of all people, is fucking beyond me

Honestly I don't care anymore about DC films, I'm good without them for awhile. after seeing the leaks for Civil War and watching the last couple Marvel films, the MCU is the way to go, and im not even a big Marvel fan

Snyder and WB just want to cram as many stories and plots into one film and hoped such a convoluted film would be a sturdy enough base for the rest of the DCEU

Ridiculous

Also Jared Leto will be a fucking awful Joker

>>82341130
I'd assume that anybody on Earth besides Manhattan with " psychic powers" just has minor ESP or something.
I'm sure there's a meaning to it all, and if some smarter Anon could explain I'd be much obliged.

>>82341238
>I did not get any sense of uncertainty from Lex.

I didn't say Lex was uncertain, I said Superman was.

>>82340668
>Implying the Soviets won't ask for some kind of retribution because Dr. Manhattan, an AMERICAN god, went rogue

>>82341181
Which is fair

I just hope people on the fence or disappointed will give the directors cut a chance. 30 minutes can do a lot to a movie.

>>82337196
>Suicide Squad
>Saving grace
Hot Topic the Movie is not going to save DC.

>>82340625
>Robin is some guy LITERALLY named Robin
No, it was shit.

>>82338898
>female Shazma

Kill yourself. Although i like Mary Marvel.

>>82341273

I dug that. Lex framing Superman constantly and ruining his public perception was kind of hilarious in hindsight. Ofcourse he'd rethink things "I'm gonna burn your Martha to death go kill Batman," I'm paraphrasing but pretty great.

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>>82341265
>just has minor ESP or something.

The issue then it's either so minor as to be essentially unnoticeable, which raises the question of how Ozymandius could even notice that ESPers exist to concoct his squid plan or be able to pick them out from a crowd; or there are ESPers strong enough to be noticed, which would hugely impact human history at least as much as Dr. Manhattan would, if in probably more subtle ways. But you'd still expect at least one ESPer cape, for example; and in any event it completely subverts the idea that Dr. Manhattan is the only super-powered being in the world.

It just raises too many questions, which is why I prefer the Dr. Manhattan bomb, which has issues of its own, but the issues seem much smaller to me by comparison.

>>82341333
If his name was Richard Grayson 90% of the normies wouldn't know the easter egg obviously.

>>82341175
>Black panther
anon, ryan coogler is the director

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>>82341291

Ayer is literally twice the director that Snyder is though.

mfw when he makes SS way more popular than the trinity (holy shit my dream)

>>82337619
Will the grief over Snyder's fuckups ever reach the acceptance phase for hardcore DC fans, or will it be stuck in an anger/denial loop forever.

>>82341390

Being worried about normies is why i hate DKR.

The memes AWAKEN

>>82341398

It took them a long long time to get there and the movie was pushed back quite a few times as a result. Three or four directors turned them down.

>>82341390
They would if he followed up with "though I prefer Dick."