THE FLASH VERSUS ZOOM POST-EPISODE THREAD

JUST
ZOOM

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Who is he, /co/?

Barry you mongaloid

>>82016472
Earth 2 CIA

Did he say he grabbed a past version of himself? How does he still exist?

EOBARD CONFIRMED FOR FASTER THAN ZOOM

>>82016502

>>82016472
John Wesley Shipp as Jay

BUT I WANT TO KNOW.

Damn, that's straight up crazy evil.

when can we get eobard back gentlemen?

we need a real fucking mastermind, not this CRAWLING IN MY SKIN bullshit

>>82016472
The real Earth-2 Jay Garrick? Or maybe a doppelganger that figured out the truth, but that Zoom has an emotional connection to so he can't just kill him.

>>82016377

i must admit, i do enjoy the show. But Flash looks like a complete retard.

Damn this is retarded

>>82016472
Nobody cared who he was until he put on the mask.

>>82016377
How many hours? Not murrikan

Why did Barry agree to this after they already got Wally back? We already established he was faster.

>>82016618
He is not as bad as EVERYONE on Legend of Tomorrow. A time ship full of idiots. Lovable idiots. But, my God, they are idiots.

Oh fuck off Caitlin. Just fuck off.

Man, what a trainwreck of an episode

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I swear to god if the power of love saves the day...

>>82016556
Wellsobard maybe. Eobard got destroyed by Barry in ROTRF

>>82016652
hours till what? the show is ending right now?

That went well

>>82016678
>Well, she fucked off

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>>82016670
because the writers are shit

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>>82016691

Is Caitlin ACTUALLY trying to reason with a serial killer?

This is stupid. They had like three hours to stop Zoom. How awkward was it to just stand around while they prepared this? They couldn't come up with anything?

>Caitlin being annoying as fuck
>ANOTHER episode where Barry doesn't have his powers
Fucking hell

>>82016693
only because barry used his brain for once and cut eobard off by taking a shortcut.

anyway that eobard is younger so he's not as well-versed.

>>82016472
You wouldnt believe me f I told you

>>82016472
It's Wally

PLEASE LOGIC!!! ANSWER ME

YOU GOT WALLY. WHAT THE FUCK YOU HAD TO LOSE??
YOUR FUCKING HONOR?? SERIOUSLY!!

>>82016691
Was more of a speedwreck

>>82016693
Yeah Wellsobard
Zoom said he wasn't fast enough to make speed mirages

Can someone refresh my memory, when did they see a speed mirage?

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CAITLIN IS MY WAIFU

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What a stupid ending holy crap. When they got Wally back why didn't Barry punch Zoom in the balls?

RATE THE EPISODE

RATE EPISODE!!!

>>82016746
They can make v9, why the fuck don't they do that?

Do we get an episode next week?

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>it's a powerless Barry episode

>>82016783
Mirages on two earths you fucking hack.

Tbqh I think he captured his own dad and forced him into The Iron Mask. He knows war codes, so that's my easy guess.

So whos gonna save them the real jay or wally with powers?

>>82016472
Wally. Possibly from Earth 2, and possibly with speed force.

>>82016472

Knowing who he is defeats the purpose of the mask buddy. :^)

Yeah, I'm giving up on The Flash.

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>>82016472
HUNTER ZOLOMON'S FATHER

MILITARY MORSE CODE - FATHER WAS IN THE WAR

Just a crazy theory idk

>>82016472
Real Jay.

>>82016556
Good, he was a better villain than Zoom.

That had to be the dumbest episode of the season.

that episode was sort of a clusterfuck train wreck. still confused. zoom killed jay garrick which was his past self but was also somehow him the whole time? literally what?

>>82016670
Because he could still put a hand through everyone's chest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDhK0NqXrIY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLcxXR1PMw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT8j9DxlRyE

That entire speed scene reminded me of this

seem like wally is the real flash for earth 2 maybe?

Well, that went retarded at the end.

>agree to give Zoom Barry's speed
>Zoom comes with Wally, hands him over
>Wally runs off
>They still fucking give him the speed

WHY

>Zoom is stupid enough to give back Wally without anything in return first
>TEAM FLASH IS STUPID ENOUGH TO JUST GIVE HIM BARRY'S SPEED AFTERWARDS
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS EPISODE

>>82016795
Thawne did it in Season 1 when he beat himself up in the trap they set.

Jay was lying about the time remnant shit right? Otherwise no reason for him to say "this is a complication" after killing himself.

>>82016770
Have to act like a hero, don't trick people and dont' do drugs, kids

>>82016795
they never did, it was a version of zoom from the past or some stupid time travel shit

Zoom used Earth-2 Reverb to open a breach to Earth-1 and kidnap Earth 1 Jay Garrick to siphon his speed from.

>>82016770
giving him the speed would make him stop (or not, he's a fucking serial killer)

>>82016795
evil Wells showed Cisco a speed mirage right before he put his hand through his chest

>>82016670
Wouldn't Zoom just murder everyone that is there?

>>82016801
This is what I thought. Barry was faster than Zoom. He should've beaten the brakes off him

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Why didn't Cisco use his teleporting powers to save Wally?

So what happens next week
>LOL IT WAS IN YOU ALL ALONG, BARRY
>LETS RECREATE THE PARTICLE ACCELERATOR EXPLOSION, BARRY
>THAWNE IN ANOTHER TIME TRAVEL SHENANIGAN NEEDS TO GIVE BARRY SOME OF HIS SPEEDFORCE, AND SOMEHOW THAT WORKS

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UPCOMING EPISODES

19. Back to Normal (April 26, 2016)
>WELLS IS ATTACKED BY THE GRIFFIN - Griffin Grey (Haig Sutherland), a meta-human with superstrength, mistakes Wells for Earth-1 Harrison Wells and kidnaps him, demanding that Wells cure him from his current condition. Realizing another brilliant Wells could help track Griffin’s location, Barry asks Jesse to help. Meanwhile, Wally corners Joe about The Flash.

20. Rupture (May 3, 2016)
>RUPTURE COMES TO CENTRAL CITY WITH ZOOM – Zoom arrives back on Earth-1 intent on taking over Central City. Barry and Wells come up with a plan to stop him once and for all, but it’s extremely dangerous. Unsure if he should take the risk, Barry reaches out to both fathers for advice. Henry is adamantly opposed to Barry risking his life again but Joe thinks he can handle it which puts the two men at odds with each other. Meanwhile, another breacher, Rupture, begins wreaking havoc, and Cisco is shocked when he vibes the villain and learn it is his brother Dante’s (Nicholas Gonzalez) doppelganger, seeking justice for Reverb’s death. Iris decides she’s finally ready to open up to Barry about her feelings for him.

21. Untitled (May 10, 2016)
>Barry faces his greatest challenge as Zoom puts his masterplan into action, threatening to destroy the entire world.

22. Untitled (May 17, 2016)
>The war between Barry and Zoom escalates as more dangerous breachers arrive on Earth-1.

23. Untitled (May 24, 2016) - SEASON FINALE
>Barry speeds into his final battle with Zoom with the fate of two worlds hanging on the balance. The secrets of the man in the iron mask are revealed.

I'll be honest their insistence on dragging this shit out as long as possible is really killing my enjoyment of this show. May as well have had barry go 'oops i let go of the speedforce' and zoom reply 'too tricky for your own good flash'.

Honestly a good third of this season feels like its just been dragging its feet with this storyline because they didnt have anything else to pad out all the fucking episodes.

>>82016806
>YOUR SPEED FOR WALLY/10

>>82016818
What if it's Hal?

>>82016828
This
Arrow has already become unredeemable shit and flash is quickly following it.
The stupidity in this episode was astounding.

>>82016840
Faster than Barry could put one through his? Yeahno.

This episode was a clusterfuck of braindead.

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>>82016377
>Episode is going great
>Zolomon grabs Wally, they trade, he gives Wally back
>Barry, who is faster than Zoom, carries out his end of the deal rather than beat him to death
Explain this to me.

so how's barry gonna get his speed back?

I guess what pisses me off the most is that there isn't a real Jay Garrick.

Unless Masketta man IS Jay Garrick.

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>>82016802
>>82016806
4/10 Why do they keep dragging this shit out!?

Genuine Arrow S3/10 episode

>>82016802
>>82016806
5/10 early on 8/10 at the end

>>82016828
See you next week.

>>82016725
>everyone acts retarded
>Flash surrender to Zoom despite being faster than him
>Jay turns out to be a whiny bitch
>Wally shoehorned in for no reason
>now we're stuck with normal Barry
One of the worst episodes of S2

what I'm confused by is how at the end of original Garrick death episode Zoom says it complicates things

>>82016543
same reason reverse flash still exists. each time you time travel, you emerging from the time stream become a potentially independent point of origin. if a past-self dies, then yours and his timelines split. One of you is as normal, the other emerges fully-formed from the time-stream with all their memories and effects they're 'meant' to have in order to do the things you do.

Jesus I just got home, but I think I can wait to watch this week's episode if what y'all are saying about is true.

Holy shit did the writers screw the pooch on this one.

How fast is zoom running through Caitlin's pussy /co/?

>>82016377
You fucked up, Barry

You fucked up real bad

Can someone explain the time remnant thing if he killed his past self how is he still alive?

>>82016472

You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

>>82016818
This.

>>82016847
Wally 2 might be the masked man.
But I kinda doubt the masked man was a flash beforehand.
Or the masked man is eddie and will off himself at the end of the episode

>>82016725
>>82016691
No, it really was a fucking trainwreck. The first 30 minutes was drawn out shit, then Zoom finally comes and Barry does the most retarded thing possible instead of knocking him out/killing him (He's killed several Earth 2 people already so don't pull that shit).

Then the ending where Zoom straight up hands over Wally and Barry doesn't just beat the everloving shit out of him.

>>82016883
>Zolomon killed his past self
>Is still alive

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as a person who has a tolerance for all the dumb shit that happens on the flash from time to time, can we agree the episode turned into trash in the last few minutes ....

Why the fuck would you do that Barry & friends? That was so stupid! That was so fucking stupid!

>>82016472
Zoom's dad.

>>82016832
That's basically who I'm guessing it is. But I still don't understand who Jay Garrick is then.

>>82016892
so what about that scene we saw earlier in the season where zoom and jay were fighting? that never happened?

lol

The writers dropped the ball hard on this one.

>>82016930
Speedforce?

>>82016878
I think Kevin Smith directed episode 21

>>82016858
Killing your past self probably counts as a complication

>>82016472
Me.
I get computer time as long as I promise not tell anyone where Zoom is or who I am.

>>82016882
Why would it be Hal?

The Man in the Iron Mask is a deliberate reference to the real man and the Dumas' novel. It's going to be another Jay.

Post some Linda and Patty

>go back in time to kill your remnant
Why did the time wraith not go after this guy?

>>82016806

5/10 They fucked up.

>>82016878
This episode was lame but these sound dope

Zoom vs. Flash war, let's go

>>82016917
EXACTLY. WHY DID HE SAY THAT IF IT WAS GOING ACCORDING TO HIS PLAN?

damn, flash writers already giving up. not a good sign, boys.

>>82016785
Butthurt faggot. Just as bad as BP and his drones.

>>82016944
Wouldn't that be like a huge grandfather paradox violation

>>82016802
>>82016806
This complicates things/10

>>82016878
>Barry and Wells come up with a plan to stop him once and for all

how many times have they said this and fail damn it, i just want closure

>>82016862
But anon, that makes more sense than what the writers actually shat out.

>>82016887
You think he's willing to find out? He lost him in the warehouse so he's still a bit faster

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REMINDER THAT PATTY IS GONE FOR GOOD

>>82016990
Why wouldn't it be Hal?

Speedforce.

>>82016996
It was visiting it's mother

Can someone explain the whole Jay is my past self shit?

Also when did it become possible to just have your powers 'taken', I thought the whole point of being a metahuman was that you were mutated?

>>82016838
Zoom called the Jay Garrick Flash a "Time Fragment", meaning he became separate from the Earth-2 timeline and existed as his own entity. Therefore killing him would not remove Zoom from existence.

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>>82016994
how about the best girl instead

>>82016973

Yeah, but Zoom made it sound like that was his plan all along. "I knew it would take seeing Jay die to go faster" but if he always planned to kill Jay then why did he say it was a complication? There's more to this.

>>82016878
>Man in the iron mask isn't revealed until the very end
>Zoom kidnapped Wally for no reason

Yeah the masked man is Wally.

>>82016930
Time remnant would be himself travelling back to his own time from the future. A separate version of himself from a different timeline.

>>82016889
Zoom could snatch up any of Barry's family at anytime. He had Barry by the short and curlies and Barry knew it.

>>82016858
at the very least he's lying about it being premeditated.

>>82016806
was enjoying it at first but 5/10 once wally got kidnapped

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>>82016994
No.

>>82016878
Why the fuck does zoom wanna destroy the world?

torrent please fampachi

>>82017030
Which begs the question why everyone was there like a bunch of fucking lemmings.

>>82016802
3.8/5

Barry being stupid. He's as fast as Zoom and doesn't use it to his advantage and knows where Zoom's lair is. Gives Zoom a speedforce boost so now Barry will have to get even faster

>>82017058
It's called the writers are fucking retarded and have absolutely no clue what there doing.
They're just throwing bullshit around to squeeze out the last 5 episodes now.

>>82017064
yeah except barry was at this point faster than zoom. He could have just beat the living shit out of him.

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Someone explain where they got life sized high quality cardboard cutouts of Hunter's parents

WHY THE FUCK DID THEY GIVE HIM HIS SPEED AFTER WALLY WAS SAFE

>>82016917
Because he no longer had an access to Earth 1 OR someone on Earth 1 to grab Barry's speed.

>>82016961
it wasn't set up as a real scene though, it was jay telling the story

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>>82016878
>Cisco's brother is back as a villain
>they can turn him against Zoom by telling him the truth
>Ramone brothers team up is imminent

>>82016961
It was Zoom's past self bullshitting I guess.

>>82016973
That honestly begs the question as to how Wellsobard couldn't have survived Eddie killing himself.

Then again Jay was a time remnant right? so he was out of time?

>>82017080
The Ultron Principle.

>"I will conquer this world to spite you, hero!"
>"Curse you, hero! You foiled my plan! I hate you enough I'll destroy everything you love."

>>82016874
>you still have like .001% speedforce left, because I calibrated the doohickey that way. It'll gradually return and when it hits a full 1% we can use the tachyon whatsit to get the rest back at once. Needs to be 1% first though, because science.

>season 1
>villain is a major character we all knew, and there was constant tension over his reveal

>season 2
>villain is a literally who with no buildup and also le crazy killer

epin

>>82017119
They connected Vibe's glassed to their computer, copied the visions of his parents, and took them to the print shop

>>82017080
Because he's a badly written character

>>82017118
Except he wasn't really because he failed to catch Zoom after unmasking him

>>82017118
You think Zoom couldn't ditch him like he did before or cause massive amounts of murder and destruction as they dashed through the city to get Barry to stop chasing him?

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>>82017031
fuck you ;_;

>>82017119
There's a Hunter Zoloman on Earth 1 + Ciscoforce.

>>82016802
>>82016806
6.5/10 for the first thirty minutes, 8/10 for the last twenty minutes, 3/10 for the last ten minutes.

>>82016809
It's speed meth.

>>82017026
The plan is reproducing the particle accelerator explosion.

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>Who is the masketta man
>You won't believe me
>Damn that settles that

>>82016377
>Jumped the shark edition

King Shark is back already?

>>82016838
I think that Zolomon, in a past timeline, was a real hero. But then he became addicted to V09 and thought about going back in time for reasons. There, he fought many time with himself to get more speed. A time wraith appeared to kill him, but he made a deal with it, that he would kill the Earth-jumping Jay, which would leave only one Jay alive and thus no paradox or whatever. He could kill his past self because past Jay was about to be a real good uy and thus was disconnected from Zolomon's timeline.

>>82017063
So zoom went to the future to convince his future self to kill him/self to trick barry?

>>82017055
best girl

>>82017150
That's the problem with Earth-2. But without Earth 2, you couldn't have Cavanagh back who they absolutely wanted to have back

Quick /co/, come up with a better backstory for Zoom/Jay/Hunter?

Hard mode: you can only retcon things that happened in this episode.

Can we go back to how fucking stupid it is that Wells didn't recognize one of his worlds only and most famous serial killers.

Because that was fucking dumb. That was really dumb.

>>82016832
>>82016955
Zoom's father would be a pretty shitty twist after Hunter went "you wouldn't believe me if I told you." What would be so hard to believe about that? And why would have tapped out "Jay"?

>no problem tricking Professor Zoom when they agree to send him back to his time
>suddenly "muh honor" when facing an insane serial killer
WHAT THE FUCK BARRY

>>82017055
>>82017081
MOAR

After god tier brutality in Supergirl's finale yesterday and an epic cliffhanger, the only emotion I have about this episode is "meh".

>>82016770
They've used trickery before though. THEY USED TRICKERY THIS EPISODE! IT'S NOT HONORABLE TO THROW HIS PARENTS IN HIS FACE AS A DISTRACTION!

>>82017120
In Earth-1, Hunter's parents were models.

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>>82016994

>>82017099
Maybe they should've hid across town like Wally

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>>82017031
I didn't need this tonight, anon

Fuck you

>>82016472
It's either:

Real Jay that got his speed taken and Zoom uses him as a battery

His dad

Earth 2 Wally

Those 2 are the most likely, but also:

Earth 1 Hunter Zolomon. This is how him and Wally meet. E1 Zolomon ends up liking Wally and getting attached to him and so the real Zoom/Flash relationship happens, thus E1 Zolomon becomes Zoom while E1 Wally becomes The Flash after Barry and "Zoom" go at it and the bystanders get their Speedforce ignited.

Also Eobard comes back next season, gets jelly of the new Zoom's name, and calls himself Professor Zoom.

>>82017225
Zoom is Jay from yet another Earth and he's traveling the multiverse killing other copies because he assumes only he can be a speedster.

>>82016959

E2 Hunter was adopted right?

>Birth name is Hunter Zolomon
>Adopted by Jay Garrick
>Takes adoptive fathers name
>Locks adoptive father up.

>>82017247
>not believing the writers would make a shitty twist after the last 10 minutes of this episode

>>82017242
well to be fair I could maybe pick Dahmer out but I'd probably be hard up to pick serial killers out of a picture book

So that guy from Suits is playing Jay on Legends of Tomorrow once they hit the JSA right

>>82016472
You wouldn't believe me if I told you

>>82016874
>YET ANOTHER EOBARD ZOOMS IN TO SAY HI AND BARRY STRAPS A TACH VEST TO HIM
>THIS BECOMES THE EVENT THAT MAKES CW EOBARD HATE THE FLASH

>>82017247
Yeah I'm guessing Masketta man is the real Jay Garrick, all we know about him is that he has blonde hair.

>>82017259
I kek'd because that finale was garbage

>>82017031
Jesus Grant, go straight for the ass why don't you.

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>>82017330
Tell that to Zod's snapped neck.

>>82017225
Hunter Zolomon is from the future and is Wally's best friend when Wally is the Flash. He loses his legs in an accident and asks Wally to go back in time but he refuses. Zolomon determines that this is weakness on his part and goes back in time to before when Wally gained his speed to terrorize Team Flash and his friends so Wally is motivated to become a better hero willing to do whatever it takes.

Patty's trigger happy ass would have shot Zoom by now if they added her to Team Flash

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>>82017356
You would too.

>>82017032

Because he's boxoffice and ratings cancer.

;__:

>>82016892
the Jay that was in Star Labs wasn't Zoom's time remnant after it. It was the Masketta Man's, aka the real Jay's.

When Zoom stole real Jay's speed, the timey-whimey crap caused time-clone Jay to lose his speed too. He had to switch to Velocity, and bailed through a breach first chance he got

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That episode was so bad I'm actually considering dropping Flash after this season. it's Arrow all over again. At least we still have Legends of Tomorrow

>>82017318
well yes we live in a world where there are rather a few of them. but earth 2 explicitly mentioned how big a fucking deal zolomon was. that he was all over the place news-wise. And it wasnt JUST wells that didnt recognize him. Jay garrick is a fucking hero who pops up on the news all the time. Youd think wells or someone else on earth 2 would have made the connection at some point.

Kreisberg mentioned how early into season 2's production Zoom was going to be E2 Barry.

Would you have preferred that twist, /co/?

>>82017354
>indigo gets ripped bodily in half
>Non's eyes get burnt out
>BvS gets BTFO
>Jimmy/Kara is definitely OVER
>is somehow "garbage"

Sure, anon, whatever you say.

>>82016812
I'm so glad we get another episode where Barry wallows in self-pity because he can't go fast anymore.

>>82017135

The dude portraying zoom is still not a good villain fuck all of this.

can we have wellsobard again

>>82017441
3/10, try harder.

>>82016945
/co/-signed.

>>82017441
yeah but that show is consistently lame. It has its entertaining moments but even now as bad as this episode of flash was...its still better than most episodes of legends.

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>>82017441
>Legends
>better than FLash

>>82017445
What is so goddamn hard about creating a coherent storyline in advance to prevent these moments of utter retardation?

>>82017441
Hopefully we'll get a different big bad for Season 3 than evil speedster who was Barry's mentor all along.

>>82017445
I actually like the core concept of what they're doing now.

I just wish they had the slightest bit of elegance in telling it.

>>82017448
>BvS gets BTFO

How?

>>82017441

Legends of Tomorrow has a fun cast, but let's face it, the actual plot and the main villain are both shit.

>>82017448
>>Jimmy/Kara is definitely OVER
Wait what? I haven't caught up yet, but that's fucking stupid.

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>>82017441
dropped arrow s3 after the mid-season finale, lost interest in LoT during the " mutation " episode ....

I wish SnowBarry was real

>>82017492
They need to adapt the story to fan feedback.

>>82017445
Gustin pulled off evil twink pretty well in Glee so, maybe.

So...

>Hunter Zolomon is a psychotic serial killer from an abusive home.
>He is captured and sentenced to death.
>Caught in the particle accelerator explosion while on the electric chair, therefore becoming a speedster.
>Adopts the identity of "Jay Garrick" to give people false hope in order to tear it apart as Zoom.
>Becomes obsessed with increasing his speed, so creates Velocity-9, which causes him to develop cellular degeneration and slowly die.
>Travels to Earth-1 under Jay's guise to steal the Flash's speed.
>Due to Barry's time travel, a timeline remnant of him is created, whom he kills.

Is that it?

>>82016832
i thought it has been shown that masketta is blond, and hunter's father's hair is black?

>>82017368
FUND IT.

>>82017552
I dropped Arrow too anon, and it breaks my heart but Olicity fucking ruined the show.

I'll pick it up again if Felicity dies or leaves though.

Missed the damn episode. Where the magnet at?

>>82017510
Kind of agree. I mean, he pretty much IS an evil version of Barry. The writers are trying so hard to out-twist themselves they're just wrecking what could have been a simple, yet poignant story.

>>82017445

Much more, darth barry would have been so much better as an interaction with wells or one of the other dads.

>>82017242
was shaggy past hunter and present clean zoom even played by the same actors?

>>82017520
They did the 'sacrifices self to end world thing' much better.

>>82017549
No, it means less relationshit and more heroing again, especially with what is probably Powergirl in the mix now.

>>82016377
Why don't they give a gun to the only guy with a fast enough reaction time to use it? Can Barry outrun a death ray?

>>82017580
if he was a bit burned and couldn't get rid of the costume ....i'd have felt better..

>>82016472
At this point, Barry Allen model 1990.

We're never getting Real Jay Garrick.

>>82017492
But they did. They studied it being Barry, liked the Jay twist better and lauched Season 2 with that already in place.

>>82017544
Savage is a cuck and the crew is just horrible at using logic.

>>82016740
Caitlin has a pretty good track record of dead husbandous. Gotta respect a fellow competitor.

>>82017600
It had nothing to do with Barry's time travel, he just magicked himself up.

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"Walk Barry,Walk"

>>82017683

They chose wrong, guy is garbage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1wC9jDUN9U

>it's a de-powered Barry episode

Oh boy

I don't get it, they have 22 episodes they can write for yet they rushed everything into one? This season has been a bit shit really, it's not 'time to drop the show shit' but man they had a lot of good ideas but just really shit execution.

I just hope next season they avoid 'le friendly mentor who turns out to be batshit insane evil speedster' twist for the third time.

>>82017552
Post more Karen.

>>82016377
Why is no one reacting about Zoom having black eyes and talking about "The Darkness?"

Will Zoom develop into a Black Flash/Racer-like entity? Maybe a Time Wraith comes after his ass finally, and they combine or something?

My favorite part was when zoom got Barry's speed. The combination of those bad special effects and his over the top laughing just gave a perfect visual representation of this shitty episode as a whole

>>82017441
problem is every episode of LoT is "how retard can Rip be today" at least with Barry isn't retarded every episode

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Zoom/Caitlin/Killer Frost dungeon sex when?

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>>82017719
>"Run Barry, Run"
but instead of being encouragement he means get the fuck out of there, you're going to get your shit kicked.

So who would you like as a Season 3 villain?

I'd kinda like a Rouges themed season.

>>82016926
At the speed of toobetatoinsert.

So were the early flashbacks of Zoom vs Jay before the portal a lie? I thought we saw them without Zoom being the narrator?

>>82017833
Something that isn't speed related, something weird and pulled right out of Justice League Unlimited.

At least we can say "Jay" is more entertaining as Zoom than he ever was as a Flash.

>>82017792
>Black Flash or Racer
Why?

>>82017380
Patty "Reach for her gatty instead of getting chatty" Spivot

I'm sorry, I'm not good at this

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>>82017683

The Jay twist was the same fucking twist as season 1 though. EvilBarry is generic but at least it's not a straight rehash of the old twist.

Zolomon should have been Joe's new partner and the season should have built up to Zoom rather than having him around from the start.

>>82017681

I believe it's in JWS's contract that they can't make him wear a suit so I doubt we're going to see a substantial crossover.

>>82017792
>Why is no one reacting about Zoom having black eyes and talking about "The Darkness?"
ITS DC'S SHITTY VERSION OF SENTRY

HYPE

>>82017833
Mirror Master and Music Meister.
I think I'd prefer it if they do a few 2-3 mini arcs next season, instead of trying to mix a longer plot with MOTW eps.

Why was Zoom all "Give Me Your Speed" all season even before Jessie got snatched even though he couldn't do shit without Wells?

>>82017833
Music Meister

We need that musical episode before they kill off Joe

>>82017833
with the current writing ... the rogues won't stand a chance, every single character seems to be retarded or not realizing what's really happening. There were no fighting scenes besides 1st zoom fight worth mentioning so far.

>>82017846
'this complicates things'
Zoom is a lying liar who lies.

>>82017792
Because they want the Supernatural Audience

>>82017833
>Rouges themed season

Would be cool though I can't see Hamill, Spartacus and the Prison Break brothers committing themselves to a full season of the show.

>>82017798
Soon as someone makes art for it.

>>82017926
maybe reverb as able to do it

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>Why didn't Barry just knock Zoom the fuck out?
>Where did they get high quality life sized cardboard cutouts of Zoom's parents?
>Why did Barry give Zoom his speed when there was literally no guarantee Zoom would leave them alive?
>Why is Hunter's origin so lame?
>Why didn't Harrison immediately recognize Jay's/Hunter's face?
>Why would Hunter say "this is a complication" after killing Jay if that was his plan all along?
>Why are they pushing Barry and Iris when they have negative chemistry?
>Why is Hunter such an edgelord? That motivation for making Jay pretend to be a hero is seriously weak.
>How do you kill a past self without killing your present self? a la Eddie's death killing Eobard?

Did everyone get hit in the head with the idiot stick this episode or something?

>>82017913
This would work.

Is Zoom talking about 'the darkness'and the demonic eyes just Zoom being edgy or is this foreshadowing something?

I still don't understand how earth 2 couldn't tell that Jay Garrick/The Flash was Hunter Zolomon if everyone knew what he looked like

>>82017032
He's not in the series/CWniverse so far, even though there was ample opportunity in Arrow. Seriously, why wasn't the flashback arc this season Ollie being in Coast City and meeting/befriending Hal Jordan, who helps him find some humanity? Why is Supernatural still going on to keep Jensen Ackles from playing an awesome and snarky Hal Jordan?

>>82017833
mirror master please
or E1 caitlyn being secretly brainwashed by zoom

>>82018023
He's edgy, it was just speed force like when Eobard's eyes are red.

>>82017990
The cut outs is the easiest, "These are this guy's parents in E2, let's google them and go to a copy shop."
The rest of it is shitty writing.

>>82017990
>>Why is Hunter such an edgelord? That motivation for making Jay pretend to be a hero is seriously weak.
Making Jay? He IS Jay.

>>How do you kill a past self without killing your present self? a la Eddie's death killing Eobard?
By being a speedster. See: Reverse Flash

>>82017990
I'm assuming Zoom was bullshitting about everything this episode

>>82017990
>How do you kill a past self without killing your present self? a la Eddie's death killing Eobard?

Speedforce. They even stated this when talking about the causality loop when Eobard popped into town this season.

But then again that was like two timelines ago so who the fuck knows what just happened.

>>82017929

Barry's first battle with Deathstorm and Killer Frost was pretty damn exciting.

>>82017946

I've been watching that shit. It seems to have reached an actual ending in season 5 but it keeps going for some god forsaken reason.

>>82017990
speedforce

>>82018042
They did allude to him when they talked about Feris Fields.

>>82017927
>>82017913
Fuck now I really want a Music Meister episode

>>82017961

The Prison Break bros would easily commit to a full season.

And Hamill would want to if he was able. We all know he would.

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On the subject of storyline changes, here's some stuff that was studied early into production of season 1.

>Iris is a psychology major and aspring criminal profiler who gets an internship at CCPD to Joe's dismay.

>Eddie is an arrogant douchebag and a glory-hound with a secret past involving accidentally (or not) murdering his old past in Keystone City.

>Caitlin's fiance is Kyle Nimbus, who then becomes the Mist. After he's locked up in the Pipeline, she develops an attraction to Barry and they eventually have a romance.

>Joe is killed by Clyde Mardon in the pilot episode.

>Hartley Rathaway is part of the S.T.A.R. Labs crew and a sassy, loveable douchebag who believes helping Barry fight crime is a waste of time, but comes around eventually.

>The particle accelerator explosion creates three meta-gorillas: Grodd, Solovar and Nmandi.

>Al Desmond is Barry's childhood friend.

Among others.

Also, these were the frontrunners to play Barry alongside Gustin: James McKay and Matt Barr. The latter was reportedly the favorite since some producers were skeptical of Gustin for not fitting the physical description of the character.

>>82017833
I want Barry and Clariss speedforce to activate Earth 1 Zolomon(guy in the mask) and Earth 1 Wally's speedforce and have a Wally vs actual Zoom season.

Either that or I'm on board with a Rogues themed season as long as the writers don't fuck it up.

>>82018092
It stops being good after Leviathans. BUt it was a pretty decent show for like 7 seasons

So how'd you guys like the episode?!

>>82017833
anything but another speedster at this point. they need to change their formula up and I think the rogues would work well since it's multiple characters and not just one big bad

Next season will be the guy in the mask being future wally west who is the flash and they rescue him and join the team then find out at the end that he's actually earth-3 Hunter Zolomon and betrays them.

I was thinking that the Masked Man is Zoom's father but now I'm not so sure.

How is Jay still alive if he killed his past self? Is this another speed force I ain't gotta explain shit moment or is it like Thawn?

>>82017380
She already tried to shoot him...

i still don't understand how zoom killed zoom. he couldn't have killed his younger self because then his younger self couldn't grow into the older self that killed his younger self. did you kill his older self? that just puts a wall on how long he has to live since he'll die eventually being killed by his younger self. also this would negate the need for speed because he's set himself up to die any way

zoom got some splainin' to do

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>>82017448
Dude, I've been pushing Supergirl harder than anyone else on /co/ and even I'll admit it was a weak episode.

Non was a terrible villain, Myriad was a joke, and the one thing that would've made the episode good - Kara dying - was completely averted for the super mega happy ending. Supergirl had a complete lack of direction in regards to the Big Bad's arc. The monster of the week episodes were better in every way and gave Kara greater development.

The show has great potential, but they need to put effort into it next season if they want to survive for a third.

>>82018141
>Joe is killed

They dodged a bullet there, Joe is priceless

>>82017890
>Zolomon should have been Joe's new partner and the season should have built up to Zoom rather than having him around from the start.

That's not great either.

It should just have been Eddie.

>>82018225
It could be his past self from a different time line. E2 Joe is dead but E1 Joe is still alive

>>82018225
he just killed a time clone/was lying

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>>82018077

By "making Jay" I mean going back in time and telling a past version of himself to put on a red suit and run around fighting himself and being a hero. What the fuck is the point of that?

>>82018085
>>82018077

If him killing his past self was just according to keikaku, then why did he say "well, this is a complication" right after it happened?

>Implying Season 3 Won't have Earth 1 FemNazi Flash as a villain who "sees the error of her ways and loves me for who I am"

>>82018141
Soource?

>>82016472
E2 Eobard

>>82018119
They also show a man in a flight jacket with the name JORDAN on it in the Coast City bar Ollie is in at the beginning of season 4. Hal exists in this universe, we're all just going to keep getting green balled.

>>82018241
>did you kill his older self
*did he

>>82017445
No, here's what actually happened.

>"Hmmmm, making Zoom evil Barry would be cliched but really cool. Let's do it."

>"But guys, if we don't make Barry evil Zoom. We can have Barry's doppleganger be le funny beta male who's married with Iris so Earth 1 Iris can have several drawn out boring scenes of her pondering the fact that they're married on another universe."

>"OH MY GOD TWITTER WOULD LOVE THAT. But wait, who will be Zoom?"

>"Uh, just take season 1's plot and do it all over again. As for the identity, just take all the speedsters from the comic and put their names into a hat and we'll draw them out and use whoever we get."

>"Perfect"

>>82018241
Maybe he killed an alternate version of himself from another Earth?

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>>82017990
>Did everyone get hit in the head with the idiot stick this episode or something?
>this episode

God damn why didn't Barry just punch Zoom in the teeth

THEY WERE BOTH MONOLOGUING

FUCK THIS SHOW

>>82017445
Yeah that would have been good compared to this. But one of the earliest theories was that Zoom was Barry so we all would have complained about predictability.

>>82018285
earth 10*

>>82017798
Next episode, promo in >>82017765
she's tied to a bed

>>82017990
>Why didn't Barry just knock Zoom the fuck out?
Barry is prone to stupid decisions. In this particular case, he was blinded by the need for answers.

>Where did they get high quality life sized cardboard cutouts of Zoom's parents?
S.T.A.R. Labs.

>Why did Barry give Zoom his speed when there was literally no guarantee Zoom would leave them alive?
Leap of faith.

>Why is Hunter's origin so lame?
Subjective.

>Why didn't Harrison immediately recognize Jay's/Hunter's face?
Why would he?

>Why would Hunter say "this is a complication" after killing Jay if that was his plan all along?
The breaches were closed and he had no access to the Flash's speed anymore.

>Why are they pushing Barry and Iris when they have negative chemistry?
Subjective.

>Why is Hunter such an edgelord? That motivation for making Jay pretend to be a hero is seriously weak.
Because he's the villain.

>How do you kill a past self without killing your present self? a la Eddie's death killing Eobard?
It was not his past self, it was a timeline remnant.

>>82018141

Iris was still going to school for psychology when the show started.

I vaguely remember there was a minor backlash about it because people thought it was too similar to Laurel/Detective Lance and I assume that lead them to change directions.

IF JAY IS THE ONE WHO FELL IN LOVE WITH CAITLYN THEN WHY THE FUCK DOES HUNTER GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HER

Zoom should've been Earth 2 Joe

>>82018284
That didn't happen.

Zoom was Jay this entire season. He did all the hero shit. The time travel thing with his past self only happened later.

I'm glad this show is going to shit too. Flash is the reason Arrow was left in the hands of that retard Guggenheim who destroyed my favorite show. I hope Flash dies the same slow agonizing death.

>>82018342
>"Uh, just take season 1's plot and do it all over again. As for the identity, just take all the speedsters from the comic and put their names into a hat and we'll draw them out and use whoever we get."
I like to imagine they used Jay's helmet for this.

>>82018251
the Clark's around but can't do shit except txt people is beyond retarded. Have him get stuck in space for years or something

>>82018241
The answer is Speedforce.

>>82018428
Literally the same person.

>>82018360
It was way more noticeable this episode. Others can be slightly overlooked.

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>tfw you waited nearly a month for this episode

Caitlyn is the new Felicity. She'll defeat Zoom by making him feel guilty over his daddy issues.

>>82018409
>Why would he?

He said it in the episode himself, serial killers are an anomaly on his earth and highly recognizable and famous. That's how he knew Hunter Zoloman's name.

>because he's the villain

You can make good villains without making them edgelords. (hint: they did it in their first season) Edgelords are objectively the shittiest designed villains.

>>82017990
>Why didn't Barry just knock Zoom the fuck out?
Zoom was faster than Barry at the end there, when he went all black-eyed. If he did that again, he could kill someone before Barry could stop him, potentially.
>Where did they get high quality life sized cardboard cutouts of Zoom's parents?
Okay, this doesn't even need an explanation. You might be the idiot for not figuring it out.
>Why did Barry give Zoom his speed when there was literally no guarantee Zoom would leave them alive?
And the alternative is risking everyone's lives for a chance to maybe win. I guess Barry just wasn't feeling confident enough. I agree, though. A fight would've been cooler.
>Why is Hunter's origin so lame?
It's supposed to be a reflection of Barry's. It's only as lame as Barry's, really.
>Why didn't Harrison immediately recognize Jay's/Hunter's face?
Why or how would anyone? Do you walk around trying to tell if everyone around the corner are former inmates and serial killers? I don't think even Harry would be able to tell.
>Why would Hunter say "this is a complication" after killing Jay if that was his plan all along?
Different writers between episodes. They follow a plot breakdown, but each episode has their own script writer. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
>Why are they pushing Barry and Iris when they have negative chemistry?
Because they're supposed to be together. There is nothing else they can do, if they try to do something different, they'd get flamed.
>Why is Hunter such an edgelord? That motivation for making Jay pretend to be a hero is seriously weak.
Maybe you would be too if you had a fucked up dad, was orphaned, etc., and getting superpowers. Honestly, I think his motivation is pretty great. Not everyone needs to have a mission statement when they put on their costume.
>How do you kill a past self without killing your present self? a la Eddie's death killing Eobard?
And Eobard lived. They literally explained this in the show episodes ago.

>>82018141
We mist a chance at SnowBarry being real? WHAT THE FUCK

>>82018428
maybe hunter's just tired of caitlyn's blabbering (or stupidity). either way, he needs to release his speed demon semen somewhere

>>82018371
That's the problem. From the interviews I've read, it appears they wanted something the fans couldn't guess first and foremost.

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>>82018428
>I haven't been following the plot at all

>>82018430
>>82018554

>Zoom was Jay this entire season.

Ok hold the fuck on. If Zoom was Jay this entire season then how do you propose he killed himself? I thought Jay is the time remnant, that's what Zoom said.

>>82017792
>>82018023
Black Flash? Black Racer? Maybe.

>>82018507
It's a sad day when a ship doesn't sail. I'm sorry anon.

>>82018371

I wouldn't have, it would have forced gustin to actually have range.

>>82018253

Nah.

Patty being a boy, and being Zoom works great.

>A huge fan of the flash
>Keeps interjecting himself into as man meta situations as possible
>Becomes fast friends with Barry
>Probably learns his secret
>Show him to be a bit unhinged in certain ways, like lacking boundaries and not understanding social norms

It could have been great and it would have also made it so Patty's shit wasn't worthless, and allowed Jay to be Jay.

>>82018563
Because Spped Force/time fuckery.

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>>82018563
JAY IS ZOOM

PULLED OFF THE 'KILLING JAY' STUNG BY ABDUCTING HIMSELF FROM ANOTHER TIMELINE

JAY IS FAKE NAME TAKEN UP BY HUNTER ZOLOMON

>>82018596
I really wanted her to be zoom

>>82017833
Prison Break got revived so goodbye to Snart and Mick for now.

>>82018563
The same reason Thawne still exists.

Speedforce.

>>82018507

You mean we dodged a bullet?

The same people who love Snowberry love Ollicity.

Did you want this show ruined too?

>>82018563
hunter said that it's hard to convince jay garrick flash, but the latter agrees anyway because it's a genius plan. maybe not the exact word, but i need to rewatch it

>>82018499
>>Why didn't Harrison immediately recognize Jay's/Hunter's face?
>Why or how would anyone? Do you walk around trying to tell if everyone around the corner are former inmates and serial killers? I don't think even Harry would be able to tell.

Harrison says he knows Hunter Zoloman's name and entire backstory because serial killers are an anomaly on his earth and highly famous and recognizable. He should have zero problems recognizing Hunter's face if he knows his name and entire backstory.

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JAY IS ZOOM/HUNTER THE ENTIRE SEASON

RIGHT BEFORE THE OTHERS GO TO EARTH 2, HE REALIZES HE NEEDS A PLAN TO FOOL THEM

SO THAT'S WHEN HE DOES THE TIME TRAVEL FUCKERY AND SOMEHOW KILLS HIS PAST SELF

THIS IS LITERALLY IN THE EPISODE, PAY ATTENTION

>>82018371
>>82018526
It's LOST all over again...

I missed the beginning of the episode. What happened to Pied Piper? I thought he was on team Flash now

>>82018241
Watch the Reverse Flash episode again, maybe twice. It's clear that you've forgotten all about it.

>>82018738
But how does he kill his past self without a singularity appearing?

>>82018708
Zoom in his serial killer days looks like Charles Manson.Without the long hair and beard he looks like a regular dude.

>>82018752
Eaten by the cat

>>82018497
if hitler shaves his stache and grew his hair out I doubt I could recognize him

>>82017225
>Hard mode: you can only retcon things that happened in this episode

Jesus, that's easy. Hunter Zolomon of Earth 1 became Zoom and found a way to cross both space and time, going back to Earth 2 at the time of the particle accelerator explosion, in order to absorb more speed, and went to war with Jay Garrick/Flash. He then did everything else Jay and Wells said he did. Only retconning this episode is the easy part. Masketta Man is Wally as the Flash.

>>82018752
he was just visiting Central City last week

>>82018684

He convinced a remnant self to help him fuck with team flash = agree to kill a shortened timeline self so he could interchange himself with his other self.

But him portraying hero and evil zoom using his stand in when he needed to suit up means

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>>82018646

Calm down friend.

Jay is an alternate Hunter. We've established this.

The question is whether the Jay we see is abductee Hunter or Zoom Hunter.

If its Zoom Hunter, then when did he make the swap before killing the remnant?

if its abductee Hunter, then why does he have feelings for Caitlyn when Jay was the one falling in love?

>>82018760
Speedforce.

>>82018526
that's literally the dumbest fucking reason to do anything

>>82018760
Idk ask the fucking writers

>>82018141
Oh look a blonde Barry.

>>82018653

I'm not gonna lie I wonder if that was the original plan and her actress bailing caused them to scramble and just cover it up.

>>82018665

It's just a mini-series isn't it?

Honestly I don't know why. I haven't watched Prison Break but everything I know about it says that the show basically reaches an end point and then just staggers about.

At what point in this timelime did he visit Supergirl? They never actually explain that.

>>82018820
Then where was Speed Force when Eddie shot himself?

>>82017353
>all we know about him is
nothing, because according to this episode he doesn't even exist!

>>82018835
if that was the original plan they should have had her under a better contract

>>82018805
JAY

IS

ZOOM

>>82018822
No, the dumbest reason would be to push away viewers and lose money

>>82017150
Nothing could top Wellsobard. He was carrying the show so hard.

I knew season 2 would never be on the same level because he was gone. And it went just as I expected it. Still entertaining and good, but just not the same without him. I nearly cried of joy when they brought him back for the time travel episode.

>>82018845
at the beginning when he was running super fast he popped into a portal then out of one a second later and asked "how long was i gone"

>>82018760
he was fast enough to close it as soon as it started to form