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Zack Snyder believes superheroes have no credibility if they

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https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine/batman-v-superman-spoiler-special-with-zack-snyder-charles-roven-deborah-snyder

"I kinda came to the conclusion also that they couldn't really talk in their suits, um, with any credibility..."
"... more than 4 or 5 lines and you start to notice, like wait, these are two guys ... one guys dressed up like a bat and the other has a big red 'S' on his chest, and they're being super serious about how mad they are at each other..."

I want Snyder defenders to finally shut the fuck up.
>>
Snyder is an inspiration, if he can fail upwards through the movie industry, then maybe so can I
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>>81484365
>Snyder literally cannot suspend his disbelief for more than five lines of dialogue

It actually explains so much
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Not a shill, but he's kinda right when you think about it, at least in live action. It works better in Marvel movies because they don't take themselves seriously. But you have something like BvS, which is dark and serious, and it does become a bit silly.
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>>81484549
Maybe adapting them into live action was a mistake from the beginning.
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>>81484549
Which is exactly why they shouldn't try to enforce this no fun allowed bullshit tone.
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face it /co/, capes are ridiculous, no matter if GRIMDERP or LELSORANDUMB.
>>81484549
>Marvel movies don't take themselves seriously
It shows.
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>>81484407
This so hard.

>>81484549
Stop.

The aftereffects alone make their costumes dark as fuck. They don't look "silly" at all.

Plus, Snyder is basically admitting that he sucks so much as a filmmaker that he doesn't know how to make 6 lines of serious dialogue between superheroes look realistic.

Like, that's all there is to it. That's all you need to know about Zack Snyder.
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>>81484549
It's already "a bit silly". Batman is literally a person who runs around dresses as a bat, throwing bat shaped boomerangs. It's silly at its core, no amount of color desaturation and references to jesus will ever change that.
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>>81484549
> Don't take themselves so seriously.

I'm not so sure if Daredevil, Jessica Jones, or even CA2: Winter Soldiers aren't serious and dark enough. They hv plenty of characters in costume talking in deep conversation though....
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>>81484616
It worked in the 60's
>>
THEY ARE FUCKING COMICS FOR CHRIST SAKE!. THERE'S A GUY WITH A CLOWN MOTIF, A HALF-MAN, HALF-CROCODILE, AN INMORTAL WARRIOR...AND YOU TELL ME THAT THOSE CHARACTERS SPEAKING IN COSTUMES LIKE IT'S NORMAL IT'S WEIRD?. GOD FUCKING DAMMIT!
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>>81484365
>There will be anons that defend this
I'm not even mad at Snyder. I'm mad that he has so much goddamn support.
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If he doesn't have any respect for the genre, he shouldn't have anything to do with it.
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>>81484809
This cunt on the left is probably the reason he's onboard.
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>>81484549
Stop trying to find a right angle to defend Snyder, you apologist. There are none.
When even director with more quality like Nolan and Donner can find a heft within comic book characters. What is your excuse.
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It's painfully obvious he's never been to a costume party. I like to think of super heroes as having Halloween all year long. They get to dress up, and not be themselves for awhile. Who cares if there's a dude dressed as a bat, or another dude flying with an S on his chest. They've probably seen weirder shit.

I can understand Batman not talking beyond a few lines. That's his thing, he likes to brood in silence for most part. However Superman is always talking, not to the extent of Deadpool but he likes to talk.
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>>81484633
>capes should be stupid like me
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>implying long dialogues are the only way to make a scene serious when you have batman and superman
HACK SNYDER
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>>81484365
As long as the costumes aren't ridiculous then you can have serious dialogue.
I will say that I feel like when heroes do discuss things out of costume it does seem more dramatic
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>>81484616
The DCMU was a mistake.
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>>81484903
>Nolan
Those weren't cape films though.
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>>81484910
They are already as stupid as you are, which is why they are pretending to be something they are not - deep.
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Holy shit fuck you Snyder.

One of the best moments from season 2 of Daredevil is when Daredevil starts to interrogate Turk after interrupting his gun deal. Turk immediately surrenders and tries to talk Daredevil into letting him go. Daredevil is in full costume and clear lighting the whole time and yet it still feels incredibly natural and believable.
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>>81484972
lol keep telling yourself that
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Why'd he take all the God/Superman comparisons in Man of Steel and amplify them to infinity in BvS?
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>>81485032
There's a difference between the two. Daredevil was written by someone who loved the character and directed by someone who's competent. Also they don't have WB (or in DD's case Marvel) constantly meddling.
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>>81484365
Why does a man so obsessed with realism want to make comic book movies. Guy should become a banker or something.
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>>81484616
>>81484633
>>81484645
>>81484676
>>81484695
>>81484730
>>81484903
You guys have a limited perspective. Snyder has access to things like focus groups to see what people like and dislike and he HAS to take that into account. He can't just take into consideration the fans when these movies are supposed to make over a billion dollars worldwide.
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>>81484907
It's like when they don costumes at weddings and funerals.
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>>81484972
Your constant denial mode really is disturbing.
I suggest you better see a shrink in the next few days.
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>>81485168
> these movies are supposed to make over a billion dollars worldwide
But they don't so listening to those focus groups is useless.
I don't need excuses, I need good movies.
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>>81485168
So focus groups are the reason why this film is critically reviled and underperforming at the box office? It's literally everyone else's fault but Snyder?
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>>81485199
Dumbest thing.
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Then stop making cape movies, you fucking hack.
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>>81484549
>It works better in Marvel movies because they don't take themselves seriously
Nigga are you high? When cap was about fight bucky and he said he didnt want to fight but hes got to save them peoples, that was a serious fucking moment.
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>>81485168
... and don't you think any superhero movies before BvS don't have any focus group for pre-screening?
Yet, Snyder keep telling everyone at any given chance this movie is for the fans, not for critics (which ironically, plenty of them are comic book fans). So, you are basically doubling down, or still in constant denial mode?
Good Lord, this is so baka.
DC fanboys excuses is getting more jabroni on each passing turn.
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>>81484365
Jesus christ this fucking guy is a retard
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>>81485357

Stop it anon, my penis can't take it anymore.
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>>81485357
>dat Favreu
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He's right, these costumes are not the characters so why we should be obsess with having our heroes in costumes especially if they distract from emotional scenes.
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>>81485168
Every test screening since MoS WB is told that the movies fucking suck. That's why they try to hide them and have embargoes until the last minute. Instead of listening, they just double down on marketing and cross their fingers that it would work this time.
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>>81484976
>a nerve was hit, again
lol
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>>81485148
Some people make things because they want to exalt what they love, others want to fix the things they hate.

You can see this difference starkly in satirical pieces. A satire made out of love for a genre or media is vastly different in tone from one made out of derision.
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>>81485135
>Daredevil was written by someone who loved the character
Millar? This DD is quite an edgelord.
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>>81484365
Is Snyder a legitimate retard? I don't mean that as an insult, I mean is he mentally challenged?
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>>81485455
The problem is that it worked. Despite being shit, they've made a shit ton of money and they're going to do the exact same thing for all future movies.
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>>81485504
>DD
>Edgelord

Do you even know what that means?
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>>81484365
Every time this idiot opens his mouth, shit spews out. I never knew he was such a retard.

>"I can't do it, therefore it's impossible"

It's almost inspiring and cute how someone so dumb got into such a position.
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>>81485168
>He can't just take into consideration the fans
Good. Fans are annoying and never pay the ticket.

>>81484903
>Donner
Lol que? That guy was the 1980s Snyder.
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>>81485577
>Kingpin rips a guy's chops off
Not edgy at all, no sir.
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So when Marvel films strays away the comics it's fine but Synder does because he hates comics, despite most of his work being comic book adaptations.
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>>81485639
There's a lot more variation, though. Show has light hearted moments here and there.
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>>81485504
I think we need to realize that DD has been dark since Miller.
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>>81485673
So did BvS and MoS.
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>>81485668
Oh look, fresh bait that doesn't use the word 'quip'!!
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>>81485673
>light hearted moments
Quips? Oh my god DD, not you too!

>>81485694
Miller wasn't that ultra-violent. Hence mentioning MillAr.
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>>81485455
>Every test screening since MoS WB is told that the movies fucking suck.

Really? Never knew this. Have any links or proof?
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>>81485668
Yup.

>>81485728
www.myass.com
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>>81485725
It wasn't really ultra-violent though.
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>>81485604
>Lol que? That guy was the 1980s Snyder.

Now you are really being crass. This is the guy who gave us proper Superman. He fought tooth and nails against the wishes of shady Superman producer to cut corner. Given the era and limitation of SFX of the time. Read the nifty article here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/superman-inside-story-director-richard-879894

This director do loves Superman as superhero in cape.
Also this director brought us Lethal Weapons, The Omens and The Goonies.
He is above the level of Zack Snyder in many ways.
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>>81485766
>DD beating on people for stupid reasons
>Kingpin going full Ennis
It was.
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>>81484365
>>81484549
Snyder knows that these are costumed heroes that do fucking insane things. Everybody whose read a comic, watched a cartoon, or watched a move knows this.

But the main point he forgets is that not only are they superheroes, they are also CHARACTERS. Characters with emotion, motives, personality, thoughts, and last but not least, a fucking voice.
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>>81485709
Not bait if it's true~
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>>81484365
This retarded view only works if you completely ignore Batman.
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>>81485788
>retarded Luthor
>Superman makes Earth go the wrong way,so time goes backwards
>putting Richard Pryor in III so people gave a fuck
>the videogame
You see this in a Snyder movie and nuke Hollywood. Tell me another, grandpa.
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>>81485808
>But the main point he forgets is that not only are they superheroes, they are also CHARACTERS. Characters with emotion, motives, personality, thoughts, and last but not least, a fucking voice.
Nuh uh. They're just gods. Gods that are so different from humanity, but flawed to the point of unlikability to be relatable.
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>>81484407
Fucking This, so hard!
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>>81485135
It's not just that though. Everyone in the scene treats it like the most natural thing in the world, and the in-universe reason for him wearing a costume makes sense. I don't even think the costume is perfect, this before he gets the new cowl, which is a huge improvement. It still works because it's handled well. No one involved seems ashamed about the major players wearing costumes. It's understood as a key part of he genre.

I guess that's what this boils down to. Snyder is ashamed to be making supehero movies, and his response seems to be making everything else absurdly serious to compensate. Make Superman mopey as hell and Batman at his most aggressive. The thing is, that just makes it worse. The BVS Batsuit looks straight out of TDKR, and as a result it's a little silly looking. The irony is that Snyder's self conscious super serious approach just makes it look a million times more silly.
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I kinda' wanna make a scrapbook of stupid Snyder comments.

>Superheroes talking in costume for more than five lines is silly

>Superman is genetically predisposed to want to wear a cape

>A THOR MOVIE? IN THE CURRENT YEAR?

>Ant-Man is a flavor of the week, Superman and Batman are transcendent!

>The Galactic Empire caused a lot of destruction, then so can Superman.

>Batman of manslaughter.

>Nolan's Batman kills too and I have the youtube video that proves it.

>The popular notion that Batman doesn't kill comes from Tim Burton's movies.

>There's no place for Jimmy Olsen in the DCEU, let's turn him into a CIA agent and shoot him in the head. Incidentally, book Black General, Asian Major and Indian Daily Planet assistant for my entire trilogy. Squeeze in a Not-Snowden cameo too.

>I don't even know what that thing with the Flash was all about, it just looked cool.

>B-but the Avengers destroyed their city too...

>The true Superman fans will like my movie, everyone else is too stupid to get them.
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>>81485895
>Snyder is ashamed to be making supehero movies,
So is Marvel.
>nuh-uh, TWS is a spy thriller!
>nuh-uh, GotG is a space opera!
>nuh-uh, Dr. Strange is a fantasy movie!
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>>81485935
>>A THOR MOVIE? IN THE CURRENT YEAR?
>>Ant-Man is a flavor of the week
>>81485935
>>The true Superman fans will like my movie, everyone else is too stupid to get them.
He's right,you know.
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>>81485705
WHERE

THAT IS A BOLD-FACED FUCKING LIE YOU FUCKING CUNT

SHOW ME THE HAPPINESS,RELAXING AND PLEASANT MOMENTS, I'M NOT EVEN ASKING FOR HUMOR

YOU FUCKING DRONES WANT TO DEFLECT -EVERY- CRITICISM AWAY FROM THIS MOVIE EVEN WHEN YOU FUCKING CONTRADICT YOURSELVES, YOU SAY THAT BVS AND MOS HAS PLENTY OF ROOM WITHOUT TENSION AND FUN AND ALL THAT AND THEN ON THE FLIP OF A FUCKING SWITCH INSIST THAT THEY'RE BETTER THAN MARVEL BECAUSE THEY'RE DARK AND THAT NORMALFAGS JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND DARK MOVIES

I LOVE DC

THE PROBLEM ISN'T THAT THE MOVIES ARE DARK IT'S THAT THEY'RE SO DARK THAT IT ACTIVELY HARROWS THE PLOT AND HAMPERS THE EXPERIENCE ON TOP OF BEING DONE POORLY

PEOPLE CREAMED THEMSELVES OVER DARK KNIGHT AND THAT'S A DARK MOVIE, IT EVEN HAS DARK IN THE NAME

FUCK YOU, BVS AND MOS ARE FUCKING GARBAGE, SNYDER IS A HACK AND I HATE YOU ALL
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>>81485854
Richard Donner doesn't have anything to do with Superman III. He was being cut by the producer half way through shooting II. Same with videogame.
You should see Luthor within the context of that era. At least that Luthor didn't do juvenile pranks like "grandma peach juice".
Who is more retarded now.
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>>81485984
zack pls go
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>>81485984
If BvS doesn't make roughly $1b, Ant-Man will have profited more (it made Disney $100m profit)
>>
If he hates the costumes so much, why didn't he give them totally-not-costumes? Give Superman his jeans and Super-shirt, and Batman could have a ballistic vest, chest rig, sap gloves and a mask.

But that seems more suited to a toned-down and subtle cape movie, which Snyder apparently can't make.
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>>81485895
>Synder is ashamed
If anything Synder is the only guy who is giving these characters their proper weight. I don't how we can say this man hates Superheroes when it seems like the man practically worships them.
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>>81485935
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>>81485995
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>>81485997
>You should see Luthor within the context of that era
Yeah, many villains were dressed like beach homos and had a silly sidekick...
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>>81485984
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>>81486023
>$100m profit
A fucking success here, yessir.
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>>81485995
>where
The lois/clark scenes
The bantz between alfred and bruce
The chemistry between wondy and bruce
And fuck every single one of you I liked Lex.
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>>81486063
BVS AND MOS ARE STILL SHIT

STILL NOT PROVEN WRONG, BETTER DEFLECT MORE

SO -FUCKING- EPIC, I CAN"T WAIT TO BE PROVEN WRONG
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>>81486096

Are you daft or something?
It's the 70s. People dressed like beach homos and had silly wingman.
You can not expecting dark and brooding atmosphere in the disco 70s.
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>>81486126
>le RT score
The day I care about those things I'll let you know.

>>81486148
Shall I call an ambo? No human heart cannot resist such tension, anon.
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>>81486047
Snyder, stop posting on 4chan. The damage control isn't going to work like it did last time.
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>>81486147
>The lois/clark scenes
You mean scene.

>The bantz between alfred and bruce
What bantz? Alfred drops exactly seven witty lines throughout the movie, and Bruce never banters with him, he just goes right back to BROOD AND GLOOM

>The chemistry between wondy and bruce
What chemistry? Their interactions were stiff as fuck, and all super-intense aside from one bowtie adjustment.

>And fuck every single one of you I liked Lex.
Good for you.
>>
>>81486179
Disco was already dead in '78, anon.
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>>81485954
They're still supehero movies, they're just making comparisons to other genres and showing how you an use supeheroes to explore different types of films. TWS is probably the most openly cape influenced film to date.
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>>81484730
DD rooftop and graveyard conversation with Punisher is a perfect example why snyder is just a shit
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>>81486213
>You mean scene.
I don't anon, anon. He might've laughed his ass off or at least grinned at I might have to kill him, No one stays good in this world.
>>
History will vindicate Batman v Superman.

>http://thetalkhouse.com/film/talks/an-alienating-jarring-ironic-fever-dream-in-defense-of-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/

>So what did I see in Batman v Superman? An onslaught of eccentric paradoxes and muscular visual grandeur. Snyder is a fetish filmmaker in an age of coverage gatherers. You can tell his filmmaking comes alive more when he’s filming a movie star’s body doing a workout than a CGI battle. A mid-movie dream sequence is so out-of-the-blue batshit and offers such insane vision and off-brand-ness that I wondered if it wasn’t a sly suggestion that this is what we could be doing with genre movies if they weren’t so devout to nostalgia. There is signifier upon signifier open for multiple contradictory interpretations, and Snyder does keep insisting all his work has elements of irony (maybe it wasn’t so crazy that I laughed my ass off at the ludicrous 300).

>So why does it seem like such an affront to have this Batman and Superman responsible for and tangling with the consequences of their own murders in an age of U.S. drone assassinations and the ceaseless murders of unarmed Black women, men and children by our own appointed servants of justice? Is the idea of our comic-book superheroes being as complicit in abuse of power what really gets under our skin? Aren’t all American superhero movies about exceptionalism to some degree? Maybe this isn’t a crowd-pleasing movie, but it’s a disturbing, fascinating movie that is both enthralled by and suspicious of the erotic, political and philosophical implications of power.
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>>81486243
No, anon. They know capes are stupid and want to give them a coat of smart paint by denying their capeshit nature. Otherwise, Spielberg wouldn't wish this cape fad to die out.

Now I leave you, /tv/. I have a Valiantverse to read.

>>81486296
>that watered-down Punisher
They already chickened out? Oh well.
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>>81486226
No, disco dead in the 80s. You youngling knows nothing. Thanks to some racist rock radio who felt threatened somehow by disco.
Yet, it just hibernated. It bred offspring like Detroit techno and Chicago house which in turn gave life to what we know as EDM today.
>>
What an amazing event this entire thing has been. Snyder is like the gift that keeps on giving, he can't give an interview without saying something that illustrates why he was so wrong for this. WB is like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football that is success. Except WB is also Lucy, constantly pulling the ball away from themselves at the last minute and planting ass first in the dirt. DC is a fucking laughing stock and the people there didn't even do anything.
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>>81486321
>an-alienating-jarring-ironic-fever-dream
>it’s a disturbing, fascinating movie that is both enthralled by and suspicious of the erotic, political and philosophical implications of power.
So literally a production of pic related.
The movie is the main argument of the primary antagonist, and features its secondary antagonist as more relateable and empathetic in his motivation than an often described mary sue who comes off as completely unlikeable.

BvS confirmed for supervillain propaganda.
>>
>>81485984
Guess that fat stack of Superman comics that I collected over 20 years means I'm actually a Superman fan poser because I fucking hate Snyder's take on the character with a passion.
>>
>>81486126
>mfw I see kids wearing antman shirts
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>>81486322
>>that watered-down Punisher
You what?
>>
Some people react to this shit like Christians did when The Last Temptation of Christ came out.
>>
>>81486383
>WB is like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football that is success. Except WB is also Lucy, constantly pulling the ball away from themselves at the last minute and planting ass first in the dirt.
Screw the Charlie Brown reference. Personally, I see the analogy as Kevin Tsujihara holding the ball, Charles Roven as the one trying to kick it, and Zack Snyder as the idiot tackle who turns around from the line of scrimmage and tackles the ball pretending he is his favorite version of Superman and the football is a skyscraper, while a player from Marvel's team picks up the loose football and runs it back for a touchdown.
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>>81484365
This is the main reason all Snyder's cape movies are shit. He simply hates the source material. He doesn't want to make cape movies.
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>>81485303
Not when they have secret identities. When they're going to mourn the death of a superhero (not his/her alter ego) going as their secret identities is sure to raise some questions
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>>81486549
IKTF
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>>81484365
I want this man's body dragged through the streets
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>>81486713
That would imply his non-cape movies are good, which is not the case.
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I don't get why you people hate on Snyder. He is a pretty good guy.
>>
Snyder is pretty bad, but /co/'s thirst for blood makes me feel bad for the guy.

Take it down a notch.
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>>81486800
Motherfucker fucked up Batman and Superman, and by extension a whole lot of other shit.

You reap what you sow.
>>
>>81486800
It's scary to think that there's more than a few people here who would actual kill him if they knew they'd get away with it. Chill out guys.
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>>81485168
>He needs to listen to focus groups so that he can make a critically panned movie that falls short at the box office
>>
>>81486778
For you
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>>81486554
As a Pymfag this makes me happy. Sure they are wearing it for the movie Lang but they will still have seen based douglas. Last year was movie, Rage of Ultron and new solo. What an age to live in
>>
>>81484365

jesus christ.
>>
>>81486769
Hes just not good story wise. 300 was perfect for him cause there was almost no story, just a lot of cool action shots.
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>>81486778
He might be a good guy, but he has to stay away from comicbooks. Dude is capeshit poison.
>>
>>81485935
Add the one where he fails to understand the Kobayashi Maru, the one where in mythology mass deaths were used to symbolize disasters, and the one where "now that he's killed how can he possibly do so again.
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>>81486981
Maybe capeshit needs to die.

>http://www.audienceseverywhere.net/zack-snyders-superman/

>This genre standard now includes attentive and precise casting, humanizing opening acts, scattered jokes, and then the non-committal second-act investigation of some simple thematic exercise that yields to a large scale (if messy) climactic action sequence. For example, in both Avengers films, there manifests a second-act consideration of ethical questions regarding the distribution and regulation of power before the respective climax presents an attack or catastrophe so large in scale that it severs the need for an intensive consideration of these questions. The answer to “Who should have how much power?” becomes “Well, we need them all right now, so…”

>Both Avengers films, however, were at least a good time. Zack Snyder’s first Superman film, once anticipated as the DC answer to Marvel’s money-making formula, was not a good time. But, as it turns out, Man of Steel’s failure was not its sophomoric pursuit of philosophical ponderings or the uncharacteristic moodiness of its main character. The failure was in forcibly shaping these elements to the demands of the new Marvel-designed genre standard.

>Snyder does not do that this time around. He has broken the 2010s-era superhero format and ignored the expectation of its common packaging. He’s still equally determined to create a Superman movie that dances with Big Ideas, but in this effort, he’s doing it under his own terms. So, while it might not be the most comfortable or easy request of us, he is owed the same critical courtesy as any film or filmmaker: that of having his film met on its own terms and not the terms molded to an existing genre standard.
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>>81487096
In otherwords the author hasnt seen Watchmen and knows nothing
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>>81484549
Yeah, cap in his WWII uniform trying to talk down bucky was hilarious, so was tony talking to a dying yinsen in his goofy proto iron man suit. Also cap confronting tony about vision was comedy gold. Cant wait for the hilarious dialogue in civil war
>>
>>81486549
>being this old and still visiting 4chan
lol
>>
>>81487096
From Sequart:
>While Marvel’s ongoing film franchise is beginning to lose steam, I suspect that they will crash the genre much like Image did to the comic book industry at large in the early 90s, or even the WW2 cinematic genre of the early 2000s.

>>81487156
You liked the film = you didn't understand the book
>>
>>81484365
I defended Snyder, but I can't anymore after reading this. Obviously you can't take them seriously if they are speaking like idiots
> You Will!
It's the shit dialogue that makes it bad, not the costumes. Fuck Zack.
>>
>>81484852
This... Deb Snyder is the real danger to DC
>>
>>81487156
What Watchmen was to the Cold War, Batman v Superman is to the modern order of questionable military intervention, terrorism, and paranoia.
>>
>>81487279
Also
>Everyone has read a bad review of Batman V Superman, and I don’t really want to contribute to the ongoing masochism. What I will say is that Synder’s vision is at odds with mine, but the universe in which he’s crafted is entirely cohesive. In a world where the US is crying out for blood against things we don’t understand, electing a fear mongering tyrant into office, and disparaging education and intellectualism, Batman V Superman is a welcoming analogue to our dark and foreboding world, one which, I suspect, will confiscate my copy of Justice League: The Animated Series.
I already liked these guys for their documentary on Morrison, and now I like them even more.

>>81487321
And John K. Snyder III.
>>
>>81487234
He could have started at 6 or 8 Anon.
>>
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>>81484365
wew lad
>>
>>81485168
If this movie went through focus group the he clearly didn't listen to what they said.
>>
>>81487362
>a wasted childhood
>a wasted adolescence
>wasted college days
That's sad, very sad.
>>
>>81487215
Can't tell if sarcastic
>>
>>81487376
Sucker Punch is a good movie though.
>>
>>81486321
>Apr
>1
>2016
Anon...
>>
>>81487538
It's not a joke dude.
>>
>>81487538
Good Lord, they are deep on drinking Snyder Kool-Aid, they can't even see a prank article, instead hoist it up as a vindication to BvS.
Next what, they are gonna migrated to Snydertown?
>>
>>81486193
You care about RT when it backs up your own agenda
>>
>>81487535
Well, maybe for you, I was drunk and had a good time with my college friends.
I was neither drunk nor did I have my college friends watching this train wreck, however.
>>
>>81487279
>blames image for the comic book collapse of the 90s
Lel
>>
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>>81487641
>April the 1st
>not a joke

>>81487669
>trusting American critics
>like, ever
>>
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>mfw people still defend Zack "Cape Genetics" Snyder
>>
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>>81484365
This is the reason for shoehorning fucking Lois into everywhere she doesn't belong.
Someone fucking stop this hack.
>>
>>81486226
Next time they shine that disco ball on da roof, don't dance to it. Disco is dead. Bury it. Consider this the 80's.
Tell me, do you dance?
>>
>>81487722
>no girls allowed!
>>
>>81484407
We can all thank him for lowering the bar.
>>
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>>81487718
can I join in the snickering?
>>
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>>81487718
>>
>>81487780
It would have been just as retarded if they used Jimmy for the same reason, fuck off.
>>
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Zack, how are we supposed to have a Justice League movie if they can't socialize in uniform?

Zack?

Hello, Zack?
>>
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>>81487096
So this person hasn't seen a single "serious" superhero movie?

It's like everyone has forgotten the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy. You can't in all honesty tell me that that follows the same formula as Marvel.

Or is he talking exclusively about movies with more than one superhero in them?

In which case I guess you haven't really got a lot to choose from.
But that also begs the question of why we should praise Snyder.
He didn't reinvent the wheel here. He just failed. And he didn't even fail gloriously. (In fact many of his choices are cowardly. He clearly doesn't have the strength to accept superheroes for what they are and keeps trying to fix them in ways that are more immature than the source ever was.)
There are numerous very basic things wrong with BvS from a storytelling and filmmaking point of view.

And that's about it.
Of course you can see how it could have been good.
Fuck, you can see that with a lot of really shitty movies.

I don't see why this guy gets so many free passes after a string of mediocre to bad flicks. Fuck that. They threw Sam Raimi under the bus for far less and after making two legit good Spider-Man films, mind you.
>>
>>81487814
Sorry that Supes preferred Lois over Jimmy, anon.
>>
>>81485639
>>81485504
Just because you can't handle something realistic doesn't mean you have to wet your pants at the slightest drop of blood
>>
>>81487833
>I don't see why this guy gets so many free passes after a string of mediocre to bad flicks
Box office, anon.

>>81487858
So you, euh, liked BvS?
>>
>>81487855
Should have used Wonder Woman but no, muh 5 lines.
Shoo Shoo Zack.
>>
>>81484365
Snyder; The one director that even if someone liked his movie, they want to see him gone.

I know it's my case at least. Enjoyed BvS a lot, but if we soon learn that he's out, I won't be crying about it.
>>
i really can't wait to see if the editing is as bad as everyone says desu. then the fan reedit that obviously follows
>>
>>81487833
>He clearly doesn't have the strength to accept superheroes for what they are

"The strength." Comic book nerds actually think it's a sign of strength to never mature emotionally.
>>
>>81487897
>If you like DD then you like BvS

nigma what
>>
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>>81487096
>intellectual websites appreciating a movie that the 99% dismisses as rubbish
It is nice to see that there is still hope for humanity, I say.
>>
>>81484549
>is she with you?
>..I thought she was with you
>No one laughs
>Comes off as cringe

yeah it certainly is silly.
>>
>>81484365
It's undeniable that Zack is the weakest link at WB. Warner's idea for their superhero universe is laudable in its simplicity, the idea just seems to be "Marvel, but better," and in order to achieve this they've poured money and effort into the talent. Affleck and Terrio are both Oscar winners, so is JK Simmons, they got the wunderkinds Phil Lord and Chris Miller to do the story for the Flash. So Snyder's really the odd one out.
>>
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To the haters: What (if anything) can he do to redeem himself in your eyes?

Will you be willing to forgive and forget if JLA turns out to be pretty good?
>>
Marvel directors like their source material.

DC directors hate their source material.
>>
>>81484365
I don't understand how the director of fucking Watchmen can say such things.
>>
>>81488002
Where is the joke, Buckley?
>>
>>81488022
He can hang himself
>>
>>81488025
>Marvel directors like their source material.
>LELSORANDUMB ensues
>DC directors hate their source material.
>GRIMDERP ensues
Choose your poison. Grimderp for me, please.
>>
>>81488022
Nothing, he had 2 chances, I don't want him anywhere near a cape movie let alone Superman ever again.
>>
>>81488022
It's done and over. Joel Schumacher still gets heat like 20 years later, and he's a far better director than Snyder.
>>
>none of his haters has balls to send him death threats
Disappointing.
>>
>>81488022
It won't be good.

However, it will have cool scenes that will cut great into trailers, so people will - again - hype the movie based just on trailers, and - again - will go see it in droves so the movie will - again - be quite succesful and make 500 million the opening weekend.

And they will give him more and more stuff, because he does scenes cool for trailers and people will eat that shit, like they always do
>>
>>81488065
I'll choose the Russos and their proper tone, thanks.
Nice meme btw.
>>
>>81488025
>>81488065
Let's not lump Ayer and Jenkins together with him yet.
>>
>>81487096
OK, I'm following this website from now on.
>This is the part where I finally admit I do not read comic books. Most of you would not have stayed with me this long if I had revealed that up front, but my non-history with the source material has afforded me the chance to answer these questions thusly: One: I don’t care. Two: Of course.

>>81488120
>/co/ says THIS WILL BE GREAT
>it sucks
>/co/ says THIS WILL SUCK
>it doesn't
>>
>>81488022
He can fuck off.
>>
Every time he opens his mouth he just digs himself deeper.

Its amazing.
>>
>>81488153
>/co/ says THIS WILL SUCK

Happned with MoS and BvS
>>
>>81488129
>le Based Russos
Fixed.

>>81488163
Says the tripfag.
>>
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>>81484549
Bullshit.
>>
>>81488046
>>81488085
>>81488088
>>81488120

The thing is, he does listen and I believe he cares in his heart. The Superman portion of BvS was basically about addressing the main criticism people had about Man of Steel. Not many directors would do that.

Give him one more change. Three strikes and he's out.
>>
>>81485984
Good to know you're the TRUE and HONEST fan while people like Mark Waid and Grant Morrison are posers :^)
>>
>>81487833
>I don't see why this guy gets so many free passes after a string of mediocre to bad flicks. Fuck that. They threw Sam Raimi under the bus for far less and after making two legit good Spider-Man films, mind you.


Sony isn't WB.
>>
>>81488186
Nope. I remember the threads.
>>
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>>81484365
YET OTHER SUPERHERO MOVIES HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING IT, ZACH! AND NOBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT IT! THIS IS WHY YOUR MOVIES ARE SHIT! SHIT!!!!!!!
>>
>>81488223
No, he doubled down on the grimdark and jesus metaphors. Fuck off with your revisionist history
>>
>>81486096
tbqh he's the hero of the movie, but this was released the same year as Donner Supes, tell me how this isn't literally a beach homo with a sword
>>
>>81488223
I was all for giving him another chance after MoS.

Now? By all means he can go experiment with the superhero genre. But with his own characters like James Gunn with Super, or Millar with Kick-Ass. DC is too big and precious a commodity for him, it shouldn't be reduced to the Bayformers of cape movies.
>>
>>81487953
That would be implying that BvS was mature.
And again, it's a teenagers idea of maturity. The constant dourness and self serious attitude. The idea that if we suck all color out of the scenery and have the characters display no emotions apart from frustrations teetering at the edge of breaking down will turn it into a think piece, into an opera.

No. You can't honestly believe that.
Not after Nolan did it so much better. There's a lot to bitch about his Batman, but there is a love for the source and a knowledge of the craft there that Snyder will never reach.

Which only reminds me of the fact that Nolan opposed the idea of Superman killing Zod, because it was his first official outing to the world and it's something you need to earn.
But Snyder and Goyer wanted the climax to be more dramatic. So Zod has to die. But what did that accomplish in MoS?
Nothing. It's not addressed again, the rest of the movie would have played out the same if he had thrown Zod back into the Phantom Zone. It was simply a moment of pointless melodrama.
And that's just Snyder in a nutshell, a man who makes 2 hour trailers with all the emotional high points, but without any good constructive tissue. Without a through line that makes all the loud noises and fireworks worth it.
>>
>>81488353
B-movies get a pass, always.

>>81488365
They said the same about Grant Morrison.
>>
>>81488106
We aren't Gamergate anon. We don't need to sent some silly threats to Snyder just to make our point.
>>
>>81488223
He adressed the problems in MoS in a petty way. Than he went even more grimdark on BvS. He has the heart of an angsty teenager and didn't even listen to Nolan.
>>
>>81488400
Uh, what Morrison books are the Bayformers of comics?
>>
>>81488408
>We aren't Gamergate
You are /co/mblr, though.

>>81488430
I mean the part about
>experiment with the superhero genre
>>
>>81488380
This guy have a point, you know.
>>
>>81488106
>Death threats

What is this, HEAT? Nah nigga, get mad, blow off some steam shitposting anonymously, wait for the moviefags and capekino shitposters to get bored and leave.

Outlast the fucksticks, its the only way.
>>
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>>81488464
>>
>>81488449
>if you don't support me then you're tumblr

this mindset will lead you to the ruin, casshern
>>
>>81484365

wait
if he thinks that it's impossible to take people in costumes seriously, then isn't he saying that his attempts at making those movies serious was wrong?

did hack snyder just call himself a hack?
>>
>>81488499
>casshern
2obscure4me
>>
>>81488223
I remember Snyder talking about Superman earning his no kill rule by taking a life. I was okay with that.

However in the first 15min. of BvS that whole lesson is gone down the drain. Superman takes another life and it wasn't even a Zod level threat.

Why has no one asked Snyder about this in interviews?
>>
>>81484365
Get this fucker off of Justice League

>Zack of all people still calling it an S
>>
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>>81488533
Oh come on
It was on toonami man!
>>
>>81488528
That's his name
>>
>>81488538
> Superman takes another life
Which one? I don't remember.
>>
Is the whole interview worth listening?

I am not sure how angry I want to be tonight
>>
>>81488223

>Okay so MoS wasn't that great, give one more chance!
>BvS wasn't good either but you should give him one more chance he'll suddenly get better I swear!
>>
>>81488563
>toonami
Sorry anon, I don't spend my whole life in /co/. Maybe that's why it takes more than a failed movie to make me consider suicide and such.

>>81488588
You know, when he killed a trillion people in MoS.
>>
>>81488223
Watchmen is his first strike for me.

That movie was superficially good and copying the book to a letter yet it was, at the same time, looking and feeling absolutely wrong.
>>
>>81488400
Here, this is the manly, gruff hero from a movie released a year before Donner supes

Also, even Morrison detractors these days seem to stick to the opposite point your making (HIS WORK IS JUST SILVER AGE WAAAAANK), since whenever he takes other people's characters and goes JUST with them, the work comes out at least decent (or great, even, as is the case with Animal Man and Doom Patrol, to me, still his best cape stuff)
>>
>>81485954
That's the way fans have been describing these films, not marvel themselves you fucking idiot. Plus, even if they did, all superhero work, wether comics, animation or live action can be described with another genre as well.
>>
>>81488588
He probably means the african warlord.
>>
>>81488641
>if you watch toonami then you spend all your time on /co/

this logic is faulty anon
>>
>>81488657
>/co/ likes Watchmen now
>in some years they will like BvS too

>>81488663
That's from a space opera, anon. Of course they will dress in an unconventional manner.
>>
>>81484549
Maybe if the dialogue and delivery wasn't as fucking laughably terrible and try-hard edgy as "consider this mercy >:(((((" and ">:( Do you bleed? You will. >:("
Maybe then you could work on making that stuff believable.
>>
>>81486047
Look at the OP, you twat.
>>
>>81488680
So MCU fans are ashamed of liking superhero movies? Didn't know.
>>
>>81488085
This.
I was willing to forgive him if BvS was not even great. Just good, but potentially told the second half of the story that began in MoS, and retroactively made MoS a better movie. I guess I should give him some credit. BvS did make MoS a better movie, but only because of how much worse than MoS it is. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I paid for the first two Transformers movies, but none of those that came after for the same reason. Snyder is Bay tier in my eyes at this point, and all his inclusion means to me is that I'm not gonna like what he has directed, and might as well spend my money that could to buying a ticket on something else instead. It would take a sea of critics who admit to having disliked BvS to churn out reviews saying in one way or another "Batman v Superman was a terrible movie, but for reasons that defy Zack Snyder's inclusion within it's production, Justice League is simply exceptional, and probably the DC superhero movie you dreamed you'd get since way back before Man of Steel." Anything short of that, and I probably won't even pirate the thing.
>>
>>81488710
/co/ likes Watchmen?

Well then /co/ is wrong. That movie sucked ass and I was so disappointed.

That was before I knew he is a hack... he did 300 before and in my teenage years, I liked that one.
>>
>>81488721
>Does your anus bleed?

>>81488757
>retroactively made MoS a better movie
Therefore JL will retroactively make BvS good, and so on and so on. See, no problem here.
>>
>>81488776
because one anon speaks for all of /co/

now drink your soylent gullible green
>>
>>81488776
>/co/ likes Watchmen?
Yes. /co/ is so full of casuals.
>That was before I knew he is a hack
Come on, that movie was already a sign of it.
>>
>>81488710
Have this "not into leather bars at all" Sly them, also, from the same year as Donner supes. The "average joe" aesthetic you're thinking of wasn't present on "mainstream" (or rather, it was, but on more auteurish movies like Scorcese or Woody Allen), in the 70s, there was a whole lot of androgyny and downright gay influence in fashion thanks to glam, funk and disco people looking like a crash between a bus full of trannies and the New Gods party van

And keep in mind what that guy's saying about Watchmen has been the consensus all around the comic fandom since THE FUCKING TRAILERS. I remember a friend saying the exact same thing almost verbatim to me
>>
>>81486193
Wether you claim to care about it or not, even apart from RT, Antman was way more popular than BvS is. Because it's a better movie. One that is less forgettable.
>>
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He hates conversation in costume so much that Wonder Woman and Superman never said a fucking word to each other in this movie. Supes makes one brief remark to Batman about her and that's it. he couldn't even be bothered to fart in her direction.

Not one word!
>>
>>81488186
You trying to forget "capekino"?
>>
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>>81486096
>>81488353
>>81488400
>>81488663
>>81488710
>>81488848
reminding y'all this wasn't considered gay AT ALL in the 70s
>>
>>81485801
The movie or the show?
>>
>>81486322
So how is it going in fantasy land, where you don't have to care about arguments or logic and can make shit up as you go?
>>
>>81488852
Oh god, your meds are not working.

>>81488848
>Luthor
>dressing like a wop
Puh-leeeeze.
>>
>>81485350
Real DC fans want this horrible fucking movie to fail so they can get good films. Warner Brothers does nothing but spit in our faces. They need something to knock some sense into them.
>>
>>81484365
As retarded as that whole logic is, I will say he is ACCIDENTIALLY right about one thing. All the costumes and superhero names dehumanize the characters and make them less relatible. This goes for both DC and Marvel alike. I find I am far more engaged when people say "Tony" instead of "Ironman". Same for whenever the JL call each other "Bruce", "Diana", "Clark", and so on. It makes the capeshit scenes so much better by just reminding the audience that these are real people, not action figures.
>>
>>81488844
Well I did like 300, because I was like 14 when it was released. Slowmo, packed dudes, blood everywhere, THIS IS SPARTA

I loved that
>>
>>81488979
Yeah, he dressed like this in the 70s.

Much manlier, indeed
>>
>>81488992
>Real DC fans

>>81489015
No real names during missions, soldier.
>>
>>81489052
Exactly. It may look nice in the comics but not in live action.
>>
>>81489015
The CW shows do that enough. We don't need the movies doing it too.
>>
>>81488992
Totally agree.
>>
>>81489087
Forgot to say, that was a nice story.

>>81488992
Real DC fans know better than this, anon.
>>
>>81488992
>Real DC fans want this horrible fucking movie to fail so they can get good films.
>Warner Brothers does nothing but spit in our faces. They need something to knock some sense into them.


It's because WB don't know what to do with DC property, to be honest. Of all the superhero movie they have produced way back to the 60s and 70s. They still don't know shit what to do with it. That's why, up until now, they are only circling around Batman and Superman property.
I got the feeling, they don't actually like superhero genre in general. This is based from one WB insider during last Wondercon.
>>
>>81489185
I'd say they do, but if that makes you happy...
>>
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>>81485357
>>
>>81488223
I'm probably one of the few that really wants Snyder to direct Justice League.
I loved Man of Steel and BvS aesthetics and action and i really think it's going to work with the Justice League.
BvS had it's flaws, most of it due to pacing and shoving material to rush the cinematic universe. I can't really blame Snyder for it, the guy is trying his best and has to cope with producers wanting their universe as soon as possible, making the universe as much different from the MCU and critics/producers/companies that really hate him.

Also
>Michael Wilkinson
>>
>>81489185
They should sell DC Comics to Disney.

That would be fun to watch.
>>
>>81489245
>not sure if mainstream
>>
>>81489056
S-sorry sarge.
>>
>>81489280
Obviously you don't read comics.
>>
Where is the 1.jpg guy? We need him right now.

He was shitposting day and night in these threads, and now I miss him. :(
>>
>>81489349
I think he uses image.jpg now. I've seen two so far.
>>
>>81488223
Thing is, why should we give him another chance if we can have an actual good director that actually cares about the source material? Why should we give someone with 2 shitty DCEU films under his belt the movie over someone with no DCEU films?
>>
>>81489454
>we
?
>>
>>81484365
bullshit

this was a man in a bat costume and a clown yelling at each other for five minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnOLhXmhkyA
>>
>>81489511
Yeah, but that's not a Snyder movie.
>>
>>81489511

I genuinely can't argue with that

you're move snyderites
>>
>>81489585
>>81489541
>>
>>81489511
It's funny how good TDK was.

Even when if you think about it, the story makes as little sense as the story in BvS. But it was just so much better made that it doesn't matter.
>>
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>>81485168
>Snyder has focus groups

Well apparently he doesn't fucking listen to them since the majority of people seem to not like BvS anyway.

Also,
>BvS
>breaking $1bil
>mfw
>>
>>81489647
It was edited a lot better than Batman v. Superman so it flowed and felt more natural.
>>
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I'm still waiting patiently for a superhero period piece.
>>
>>81487415
>wasted
>reading comics, which you can do between studying and partying
>wasted
What the fuck is wrong with you people.
>>
>>81488563
Post-revival, i.e. a decade after most people had stopped watching Toonami.

You're not entitled to that attitude unless it was on Toonami in like, the late 90s-early 2000s.
>>
>>81484730
Outside of Daredevil, they aren't exactly wearing costumes, and even then, not to the extent of traditional heroes like Superman (at least, not anymore with the growing trend of 'realism')
>>
>>81489483
You know, as in, the 4 people he replied to and asked that question to?
>>
>>81488022
He can resign and admit he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
>>
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>>81489738
You haven't heard?
>>
>>81489745
sure I am
>>
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>>81489814
>>
>>81489738
Captain America: The First Avenger and the new Wonder Woman movie.
>>
>>81489647

That's 2 parts it not being a Snyder movie, and 1 part it being Joker V Batman and not Supes V Batman. Batman is, has always been, and will continue to be a STREET LEVEL hero. Having him fight an insane clown with many clever plots is just naturally more believable than having him THE Man of Steel.
>>
>>81489541
>>81489601

how the fuck does this answer anything?

>>snyder cannot conceivably see heroes in costume speaking more then five lines and being taken seriously even though he claims to read capeshit
>>show example of the previous critically acclaimed movie based on the same character he just failed to use correctly doing exactly what he cant conceive

it not being a snyder movie is the half the fucking point, he shouldnt be making capeshit
>>
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>>81487321
She bring this shit to ours lives
>>
>>81489738
Cap1?
>>
>>81485168

Focus groups are the thing killing literally anything.
>>
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>>81487827
>>
>>81488002
i'm still willing to believe that was studio pressure
>>
>>81489744

>not reading comics while wasted

what the fuck is wrong with you people
>>
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>>81486549
No true Superman fan would hate this take on the character.
>>
>>81489869
>>81489908
I was thinking more along the lines of a normal cape-action movie, or a cape-drama à la Nolan, but set in the 70's or something.
Cap 1 and WW are war movies, which isn't exactly what I wanted.
>>
>>81484934
What is the context for this? google can't bring up anything on Si Bar.
>>
>>81489972

I'm gonna be honest here, I'm no superman fan. In fact I think he's pretty boring.

But I think Snyders take on Superman is even more boring. Like he took everything that could be interesting and just threw it in the bin.
>>
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>>81489814
>>
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>>81484365
I used to be a Snyderfag but after lurking on /co/ for so long I want him out of JL. He scares me.
>>
>>81490071

>I used to be a Snyderfag

literally how

300 is the only film that's not dog shit.
>>
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>>81489972
uuh boy, it begins!
>>
>>81489972
I didnt know you personally decided what makes a superman fan

>>only time he smiles in the entire movie is when hes about to have sex
>>superman
>>
>>81490151
All of those things are right.
>>
>>81490185
Some of those things contradict each other you fucking genius.
>>
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>>81490185
>>81490185
>>full retard
>>
>>81490135
even 300 was giving warning signals. Any scene that featured Leonidas's wife and anything that wasn't from the book in general was fucking dull.
>>
>>81490219
>never played bingo
>>
One thing that never made sense to me was the whole "He needs to kill to appreciate life" thing. Doesn't killing get easier after you've done it?
>>
>>81486147
if you liked lex, then you cannot be older than 16
>>
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>>81490250

Personally I was a huge snyder fan so far
personal favorites
>>300
>>watchmen
>>man of steel (yessir)

Still hated BvS, this man should not do capeshit
>>81487827
underrated post ^^
>>
>>81487376
The only parts of that movie that I liked were the bits about the none whore plot. You know, steam punk nazis, robo-samurai, the fucking dragon slayers. It should had just been those things. A string of events leading to outrageous D&D-esk adventures. Otherwise, the movie itself was boring garbage.
>>
>>81488186
/co/ sucked the dick of BvS so hard it started to bleed, up until the tomato disaster. I was even hyped for BvS but the threads here were obnoxious.
>>
>>81484365
It's so obvious he doesn't understand the property, when will DC give him the boot?
>>
>>81490173
Typical Marvel fan, an idiot that can't pay attention to scenes unless they have quips. Let me remind you. Superman also smiled before saving Lois from the african warlord.
>>
>>81490250

Warning signs implied he was good to begin with, all he had done before that was the dawn of the dead remake (dog shit compared to the original, aka the source material) and music videos. How could anyone be a fan of him? Iean fair enough, you liked the 300 fight scenes and maybe watchmen but enough to be a fan? What the fuck.

Why was this guy hired? What does he bring that better directors don't? Butchering the source material?
>>
>>81490446

Why are quips a bad thing?
>>
>>81490369
Part of /co/ did. The other part was just punching it in the nuts the whole time.
>>
>>81490446

right sorry, he smiled before having sex and before killing some guy

what the fuck does marvel have to do with this? are you so blinded by company wars that you cant focus on the topic? is this deflection or are you just autistic?

Well? what is it? deflection? or autism?
>>
>>81490446
Not even the guy, but wow, that makes a total amount of 2 times fucking SUPERMAN smiles for a very short time.
>>
>>81485303
I like when they wear formal suits but still have on their masks.
>>
>>81484549
I'm a MoS and BvS defender.....this is fucking stupid.

He's basically saying he's embarrassed by the very thing he's making. He needs to be gone, now.
>>
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>>81488380
Hot damn, that was a good read. Someone needs to screencap this.
>>
>>81485106
Because he's a Randian atheist that want to discredit both Superman and Jesus in the eyes of the general public at the same time.

That's why so many fedoracore users on /co/ love the movie, it speaks directly into their euphoric hearts.
>>
>>81488002
>>No one laughs
I've seen the film 3 times and this got a laugh everytime from the whole cinema.
>>
>>81489980
True. I agree with you there.
>>
>>81490602
It's much easier dismissing someone as a Marveldrone, Donnerdrone or some other shit than actually reading and responding to their arguments.
>>
>>81490648

But I'm Athiest and I think Zack is a hack.
>>
>>81488022
I'm a Snyder apologist/defender.....this is the straw. He needs to be gone.
>>
>>81484365
Snyder is an obnoxious nihilist, really wish he'd get fired
>>
>>81490681
The difference between Atheist and a fedora tipper is as large as bacon and hot dogs.
>>
can't I come on /co/ once without getting absolutely buttblasted
>>
>>81490666

>I've seen the film 3 times

Why
>>
>>81488022
Committing sudoku would be a good start.
>>
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>>81489897
She also cast this
>>
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Hitler reacts stuff is old as fuck but I still got a sensible chuckle out of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TVMroNrO8
>>
>>81488022
>To the haters
What a stupid term, that dismisses negative critique as merely emotional hatred.
Take that shit back to twitter or facebook or wherever the fuck that kind of stupid shit flies.
>>
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>>81489980
I'd kill for a good Nick Fury period spy adaptation, no lie. It's what Agents of SHIELD could have been. What it SHOULD have been.
>>
>>81485168
focus groups are why we had Quiptron
>>
>>81490548
Comedy ruins good movies. If you have to be lighthearted and silly you don't have anything of interest to say.
>>
>>81484549
Exactly.

The bit with Batman dragging Supes like a bagged deer was straight out of looney tunes
>>
>>81490602
You're the one screaming NOT MUH and can't appreciate a wonderful take on the character. It looks like the one with autism... is you.
>>
That Ant Man and Hulk Coke commercial from the Superb Owl was a better hero vs. hero movie than BvS.
>>
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get it off your chest /co/
why do you hate this movie!


>>killed off Jimmy Olsen, KGBeast, and Mercy Graves from the entire DCU
>>More entertaining fight in the comic and animated movie this is based off of
>>Best scene in the movie was shown fully in the trailers(batman warehouse)
>>Batman and Superman murder, Wonder Woman does not murder?
>>Luther was the main character
>>Lots of fill in the plot
>>Batmans xenophobia
>>Luther completely outsmarting batman with a plan dependent on coincidences
>>Luthers justice league files
>>missed opportunity to hear Superman speak to the senate
>>Obligatory Mertha, including Lois running in saying its his mother
>>rushed and butchered death of superman
>>that might be the lamest version of the flash in any medium


This is meant to establish the DCU, and I am just not interested in this else-worlds story.
If you are invested in this story, you can be, and maybe theyll even get to finish telling it with fans jumping ship left and right.

Part I'm most bummed about, there goes that blue and gold movie.
>>
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It's like Snyder forgot he made 300 and Watchmen. Movies where people in ridiculous outfits, or lack there of, are having conversations with each other.

He literally had a naked blue guy have a conversation with a woman in tight latex on Mars.

Goddammit, Snyder. Why did I defend you all these years.
>>
>>81491115
edgy

>>81491164
Its not a wonderful take on the character, there was no character, superman is a prop in his own movie, AND FURTHER MORE, I just realized your trolling me lol

well done
>>
>>81489653
Hey, it made 3 million yesterday. That billion is practically a given.
>>
Why is a guy who doesn't like superheroes making so many superheroe movies?
He clearly knows he got a break with this genre and he's not letting it go, but why do producers keep giving him the job?
>>
>>81491377

cause hes married to one of them
>>
>>81489511
Gotta rewatch this sometime this week. So good.
>>
I still cant believe theres people out there that think Snyder has ever been a good director.
>>
>>81489897
Now that's a fine looking ass, Anon.

She was fine as Wonder Woman. Her accent was weird in the few sentences she had, but her body language in that fight was great.

I don't think the movies had a problem with casting. Even Eisenberg could have been great if directed properly - he was great in Social Network.
>>
>>81491338
>I just realized your trolling me
>your
you're*
>>
>>81484549
That's why everyone hated The Dark Knight so much. Too many scenes of a guy in a bat costume and a homeless clown talking to each other too seriously. Snyder is a fucking hack. Who let him make these movies?
>>
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>>81491023
wasn't this comic done by a magician?
>>
>>81491235
I hate how people are calling this a new and bold Superman, that Snyder took so many chances! But let's look at what happened. Doomsday fights Superman. Like in the comics. They both die. Like in the comics. Superman is resurrected. Like in the comics. SO NEW AND BOLD. BRAVO SNYDER
>>
>>81491111
Don't think so.

Quiptron is just Whedon at his worse. Whedon can be good when his quip levels are tamed, but when he goes in full there is Ultron.

Or the pilot of Agents of Shield.
>>
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>>81491654
Yes it was!
>>
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>>81491550

you hairy buttfuck! now cut that out!
>>
>>81490446
>Typical Marvel fan, an idiot that can't pay attention to scenes unless they have quips. Let me remind you. Superman also smiled before saving Lois from the african warlord.

Thus the only and best argument DC fanboy can muster off.
Before killing an african rebel general. He may or may not be a terrorist, he could be a freedom fighter, on a level of Mandela. But we never know, because Superman kills him without even fact checking.
>>
>>81487096
>But, as it turns out, Man of Steel’s failure was not its sophomoric pursuit of philosophical ponderings or the uncharacteristic moodiness of its main character. The failure was in forcibly shaping these elements to the demands of the new Marvel-designed genre standard.
Stupidest thing I've read in a while
>>
>>81484365
isn't this what happened in the movie?

they even tried to crack jokes.

>is she with you
>thought she was with you
>>
>>81491780
The whole African subplot is so stupid anyway and barely makes any sense. Who killed why and why the hell is that a problem?

I would let it slide but the movie keeps on insisting that the subplot is important, constantly cuts back to Lois doing some stupid investigation, the whole Senate hearing start there. And yet it's very confusing why is it a problem in the first place.

This movie is so bad.
>>
>>81491908

>>look at all these bodies with bullet holes in them
>>must have been superman
>>
>>81491844
That was closest thing to a joke in the whole movie.
>>
>>81492013
The stupidest thing of is that those people were terrorists. If Superman did kill them it would only make him more popular to the public.
>>
>>81491908
The African plot is most likely the last remnant of when the movie was a Man of Steel sequel, and Zack couldn't bring himself to get rid of it. They wanted to have a story all about if Superman was in the real world, and got involved in foreign conflicts, and what that would mean. Then they replaced that with Batman., but didn't completely get rid of the other plot.
>>
>>81491908
Man you're retarded if you couldn't follow that simple plot line. Have you ever seen a movie that wasn't capeshit?
>>
>>81491756
>GOAT artist, bringing huge innovations in comic language
>Escape artist and magician
>Part of a gang in his youth
>Knows and loves comics like few people do
>Worked on Raiders of the Lost Ark
>total bro to everyone, at least online
>Actually bitch slapped Bob Kane like the bitch he was

Is Steranko the most based man to ever grace comics?
>>
You just can't appreciate real film making, that doesn't rely on stereotypical villain-of-the-week (that's a copy of the hero, but BAD), but instead brings up deep issues of humanity and tries to use the characters and the basic super-hero genre tropes only as a backbone to metaphorical meditation on what is right, what is wrong, what are the good things and bad things we have to do.

Perhaps it's wrong that it takes toys away from perpetual manchildren and tries to go deeper. But then, the manchildren still have Marvel to play with.
>>
>>81492123
I think he has to be.
>>
>>81492151
Just cause something tries to be deep doesnt mean it succeeds you fart monkey.
>>
>>81492084
Who killed who, why was Superman blamed for it, and what exactly did Lois tried to prove there?

I see quite a lot of movies. The good ones usually have characters with clear motivations.
>>
>>81492013
No, it's that Superman 'helping' caused a power vacuum. This led to mass murder, but the media didn't know it was a setup by Lex. But it's not like the media would care too much about more dead Africans, especially if they're terrorists/warlords. So, it's kinda funky.
>>
>>81491908
they blame Superman(lmao) for the terrorist shooting up each other. you know why they did that scene? just so they can have that black woman say how she thinks Superman doesn't answer to anyone "not even, I think, to God."

the general secretary dude knows, but it's confidential. just let Lex blow up the hearing.
>>
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>>81492123
>bringing huge innovations in comic language

what were those, just curious?
>>
>>81491908
Couldn't agree more. Plus, Snyder cucked Jimmy Olsen right there. What the fuck! One of Superman best friend, and he simply just a passing footnote there.
>>
>>81492254
Lex's men killed the people to make it look like Superman showing up escalated the incident. Lex's entire goal throughout the movie is to smear Supermans name and/or kill him. Lois was investigating who was behind the killings.
>>
>>81492254
>>81492306
Superman taking out the warlord caused a power vacuum which caused a violent power struggle for the area by other warlords.

Not hard to follow. Listen to what the black chick says.
>>
>>81492254
Everyone had very clear motivations. I don't understand this argument. The movie was pretty straightforward.
>>
>>81491649

Everybody hated Bale's Batman whenever he tried to talk in costume.
>>
>>81492254
Name these movies you watch, please. Hopefully there's something in there from before 1990.
>>
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>>81487833
>It's like everyone has forgotten the Christopher Nolan Batman trilogy. You can't in all honesty tell me that that follows the same formula as Marvel.
For some reason Snyderfags love ignoring that Nolan was incredibly successful doing his own thing that was universally loved by critics and fans that was occurring during the MCU.
>>
>>81491516
Only if you love pancake ass
>>
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>>81488186
you sure, i have a ton of these
>>
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>>81488163
just like you faggot
>>
>>81492380
The funny thing is, the actual Superman would probably try to calm down the situation after he killed the terrorists, not to let it escalate, as the movie suggests.

Also it's still confusingly told. A lot of people, even in this thread, think that they blamed him for killing the terrorists - that's not people's fault, that's the movie's fault for being confusingly told.

Just a moment before we are told the CIA is tracking the warlord. It's not so far fetched to assume that the guys, who killed the terrorists, were CIA (I assumed that the whole time).

The camera never shows any conflicts that Superman is to blame for. Only some stereotypical black woman shows up and tells us. That's the opposite of "show, don't tell".
>>
>>81492433
His voice, yes. But the scene with Batman and Joker in the police station is still the best in the movie.
>>
>>81492522
Only one of his movies occurred during the MCU.
>>
>>81492556
And now they're in full cinema snob mode as a defense. Who cares about critics? Who cares about the public? I-it's not like I wanted this to be popular and bring DC up to even fighting ground with Marvel. You plebs just don't understand kino! What's wrong? Not enough quips?
>>
>>81492677
That's not the best scene in the movie. Gordon's mini interrogation just before that is miles better.
>>
>>81490151
>Maybe if I make a funny picture it will invalidate these points

You should think about adding the panels 'it was shit' and 'not just bad for a superhero movie and was so far away from the source material, but was also just a bad movie with awful direction and editing'
>>
>>81492454
The last movie I watched from before 1990 was Once Upon a Time in the West.

Which was a fine-ass movie. Just thinking about it reminds me how shitty this movie is and what the fuck am I even doing here arguing about it
>>
>>81492661
I didn't find it confusingly told and I've only seen the movie once. Sure, you don't know who KGBeast is at first, but as the movie progresses it unravels and makes more sense. You don't need to be spoon fed every step of the way.
>>
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>>81489980
The Shadow? It's better than BvS at least.
>>
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>>81484365
okay...i ain't seen this movie nor do I play too anytime soon...

but Does this guy really know nothing about the power of symbolism a costume embodies...and in a fucking super hero flick?
>>
>>81487718

People defend Grant Morrison and he still wrote in the new Action Comics that Superman was moral thanks to his kryptonian genetics.
>>
>Makes superhero movies
>Doesn't want to make movies about superheroes
>>
>>81488025

If the Marvel directors like the source material why then the movie take so many liberties?

Why /co/ doesn't complain about the differences between the movies and the comics for that matter as well?
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RATp3uig49E
>Cavill handling the hell out of the question with the exact charisma required for Superman which he somehow never gets to exert in the movies
>Affleck and Snyder and Amy on suicide watch
>Eisenberg being himself
>>
>>81491345
https://variety.com/2016/film/box-office/box-office-melissa-mccarthy-batman-v-superman-1201746025/

lol not any more, Boss is more than likely going to crush it here in the States. Its dead in China now.

Theres very little doubt bvs won't be seen as a financial disappointment internally.
>>
>>81493163
>If the Marvel directors like the source material why then the movie take so many liberties?
Because 'source material' for 50+ year old characters means a lot of things.
Just like no one knows what the Doctor Strange or Black Panther movies are going draw from.
>>
>>81488380

>But what did that accomplish in MoS?
>Nothing. It's not addressed again, the rest of the movie would have played out the same if he had thrown Zod back into the Phantom Zone. It was simply a moment of pointless melodrama.

Zod's death kept Superman from involving himself too much into things or tackling things only when forced.
>>
>>81493306
>the one single film guaranteed to be worse than BvS will destroy it at the box office
This movie had a hard life
>>
>>81493163

they do when the decisions are terrible, thus the mandarin

MCU to marvel comics
is what the DC animated universe was to DC comics

well told stories that capture the spirit of iconic characters

these new DC movies are elseworld stories, changing the spirit of the characters to fit a narrative, and most people don't like the story being told or the characters in it, because they don't recognize them. That may look like the spitting image of superman, but...here to sum it up

its not "Not MUH superman"
its not OUR superman, its zachs, and its niche
>>
>>81492710
>TDK and DKR don't count
>lets ignore the last couple of X-men movies that have next to no jokes and in DoFP case is pretty fucking bleak
Snyderfags will never give up the denial
>>
>>81493344
This movie should have never existed.

The concept alone of having an aging Batman who's had most of his adventures wanting to murder Superman who he knows next to nothing about is beyond retarded, especially when you want to build a brand new fucking universe.
>>
>>81488538

It's weird as shit that Snyder thinks we all need to kill a person to realize killing is wrong. The fuck does this say? Has Snyder killed?
>>
>>81489869

Cap first movie was weird. Cap only fought HYDRA. No nazis whatsoever and no carnage.
>>
>>81493391

I think its time to lay off of them, its trauma

Where they were right is that this was a huge moment, the first time the trinity was seen on screen for the first time, and it blew chunks

Hell I had to take a few hours myself to get over it, its a massive blow. I WANTED to love this movie, I defended the fuck out of it before it came out. I dont think you'll find a large group of people who are happy zach shit the bed. Shit now that im typing this out, I'm not over it.
Guys I really wanted it to be good and now its not. We don't get to have a DCU, theyre gonna limp on with some bad movies, maybe try a reboot. Who knows whats gonna happen, but the dream of being able to pop in my blue ray DCU collection in 20 years and enjoy the fuck out of some of my favorite characters come to life in cinema together is dying.
>>
>>81493306
Let's ve frank for a moment.

I know this is 4chan and we like hyperbole, but this movie is hardly a flop like people try it to paint.

Jupiter Ascending was a flop (176 budget, 186 made globally). Fant4stic was a flop (120 budget, 167 made globally). Pan was a flop (150 budget, 120 made globally).

BvS is just a movie that was less successful than they hoped, maybe a slight disappointment, but not really a flop... They already made more than several other Marvel movies, than Mad Max, and so on.

They could have made more but it's not such an epic disaster /co/ is making it to be.

That is, box office wise. The actual movie is shit. But it will not break Warners the way Jupiter and Pan broke them.
>>
>>81488223
I thought it was clever to make one of the thing everyone complained about (the destruction of Metropolis) an important plot point for the sequel and Superman's character development. And that was part was good.

But then you get to the end where everytime Doomsday explodes it destroys EVERYTING around. There's even a nuke involved. And the first thing Superman does in your movie is fly a normal guy with a gun in walls. It felt more like "Okay, I hear you, BUT EXPLOSIONS ARE SO COOL".

"Good thing it's the evening and everyone went back home" doesn't quite cut it. Snyder needs a leash. He is a competent action director, but he easily falls into unjustified excess. And not only in action.

>We'll have Superman and Lois in a ray of light, Bruce and Diana looking down and sad, we'll have fire and some debris shaped like cross in the background. And all of that in glorious slow-mo. Cinematography noms, here I come!
>>
>>81493529
How about you just fucking read the comics then you crybaby. They're infinitely better than any movie that's been made, from either company. If you want to watch good movies then don't pick action shitfests.
>>
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DC said that Batman can't be seen sitting because that would be stupid. People have weird hangups regarding stuffs like that.

I think that maaaybe he wanted to say that when the superheroes are in costume they have their "game-on" face and them stopping to talk shit is wrong because they're there, they're in their costumes and there are people that need to be saved and such, but that's me thinking for him.

Either way Snyder seems to be autistic. He has this weird manner of talking whenever he's in public and he always say the most stupid shit.
>>
>>81493693
He is in no way an actual autist.

I know it's just a general insult on 4chan but still.

This guy is just plain old dumb.
>>
>>81491235

What's wrong with characters dyeing? Or do you think that the DCEU will live forever like the comics tons and tons of movies? I'd rather see a couple of movies telling a good saga then movies that play safe because they've to set up even more future movies ad infinitum.
>>
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>>81493562

>>be frank
>>
>>81493338
>Zod's death kept Superman from involving himself too much into things or tackling things only when forced.
Except he was like that well before Zod even showed up thanks to Jonathan's teachings. His first public appearance AT ALL was because Zod's appearance forced it.
>>
>>81493562

its a flop in the way spider-man 2 was a flop

they cant get general audiences excited about justice league without the work BvS was suppose to do
>>
>>81491338

I like his take on the character. It's a very humanized Superman. I may be reading too much into things but i think that Superman's arc in MoS and BvS is that he's just a guy trying to do good while the whole world wants him to either be a Superman or their answer of God/Devil.

For example i think that Jimmy Olsen's death was there to set up the fact that this Superman can't always show up in the nick of time to save people. Sometimes he's too late.
>>
>>81491780

I don't think that Superman killed him.
>>
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>>81493658

woaw buddy, who pissed in your cheerios

I did read the comics, its why I like the characters. I like movies, I like action movies. I love the idea of comic book movies. Honestly I like their potential more then the comics.

Being a comics fan is being in an abusive relationship, Im trying to keep track of 60+ years of story that gets retconned and thrown out at the drop of a hat. Following a single character is punishment, as the writer will change hands and so will the story. Plus development gets stonewalled hard because even after 70+ years we have to stick to status quo.

The movies gave me a great, "heres the story" of some of my favorite characters of all time, and if you got a problem with that well you can just get in the line of people waiting to gargle my balls shiny
>>
>>81493871
Amazing Spider-Man 2 also made quite a lot of money, and I think Sony would just make more of them if they didn't think Marvel deal will make them more money. Bitching fans are bad, but that never stopped Michael Bay from making Ninja Turtles and Transformers movies.

And BvS already made as much money, right now, as ASM2 on its entire run.

The bad word of mouth can be a problem for the future though, that's true.
>>
>>81494121
I'm actually more excited for TMNT 2 than JL.
>>
>>81493796

ignoring the irony of your post to answer your question

whats wrong is they didnt get any characterization, I wouldnt be buttblasted if jimmy olsen died AFTER he was supermans best friend for at least half a movie. As it stands now we will never have jimmy and clark interact in the DC universe. Thats a shame. They are rushing their universe and wasting a lot of potential along the way.
>>
>>81494160
I haven't seen the first one... I have been kind of afraid.

But people tell me it isn't that terrible. So..
I might give it a chance.... One day
>>
>>81493360

I disagree. What's so different between Ben's Batman and the various interpretations of Batman throughout the ages? Pre-CoIE Earth-2 Batman killed, for example.

Not to mention that Christian Bale's Batman killed a lot of people despite constantly talking about muh "no-killing" rule. Ben's Batman does the same shit. He's is just more honest about it.

Superman in comics too killed several times. Even when written by Grant Morrison. So why was his killing of Zod so wrong?

I sincerely don't get it. I find BvS an awful movie, but that's more in technical aspects.
>>
>>81489647
Well Nolan is a goddamn amazing director so it shows more
>>
>having the Big Damn Team-Up after only two movies
For what bleeding purpose?
>>
>>81493870

>Except he was like that well before Zod even showed up thanks to Jonathan's teachings. His first public appearance AT ALL was because Zod's appearance forced it.

Well, if Superman showed up just to play super-hero that would have been extremely egotistical.
>>
>>81494232
Oh make no mistake it's terrible, Megan Fox is an annoying bitch. The turtles are faithful in character at least, if not in their design.
But Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang look fucking great from the trailers, so maybe there's hope for the seuqel yet.
>>
>>81494316

Cash money.
>>
>>81494387
Currency was a mistake.
>>
>>81490863
He could have been great. Amazing even. I was expecting him to be cold and calculated in pirvate with the goofy antics being just a front. instead he was basically the same in every social situation with the absolute worst being on top of his tower. With proper direction maybe he can shape up. But under Goyer's scrip and Snyder's direction it was a mess and hard to watch at times.
>>
>>81494332
Given how awesome the movie frames Superman as Jesus, that wouldn't even be noticeable.
>>
>>81493658
>hating action movies
>muh kino

There's no other genre of movie that is worth a fuck.
>>
>>81487535
I disagree with your opinion sir, but I will defend to the death your right to say it
>>
>>81494424

Why is there no mention of Terrios' involvement in your post.

This reminds of what an anon said before the release of the movie.

If the movie is good people will praise Chris Terrio's script for it.
If the movie is bad people will blame David Goyer's script for it.

Goyer had his script rewritten and recently even complained about the movie's story. Lay off the man, /co/.
>>
>>81493562
Nobody says this is going to be a flop.

You know what else weren't flops? The Last Airbender, Green Lantern, ASM2, Man of Steel and even fucking X3 as well as X-Men Origins: Wolverine (which were so vitriolic to Fox that they had to reboot the universe). And what happened with them?

BvS is going to end up in that group. Movies that by all intention were not flops but clearly were expected to do better and ended up under performing, especially with a movie called Batman v Superman
>>
>>81493658
To be honest, I don't think Marvel or DC have been good comics-wise for a while now
>>
>>81493693
Not autistic. Just dumb and incredibly narrow sighted. He takes any thought he believes to be "deep" and "Insightful" to be just that. When in reality anyone with a half functioning brain can see that it's pointless and often times spoils a scene.

Superman's entire death scene comes to mind.
>>
>>81494551
Neither Goyer nor Terio really get mentioned. You know why? Because we can't know what goes on behind the closed doors of these things and who rewrote what. However, we can look at the main guy who approves this shit and decides how this should go, namely, Snyder
>>
>>81488129
Agreed. With WS the Russos hit the sweet spot. Here's to hoping they do so with CW and IW
>>
>>81494428

What i am saying is that the movie set up Clark's existence as this huge thing because of him being alien. So if Clark decided to become a superhero just so he could feel awesome and rescue cats from tress then he'd be basically fucking with people's mind to play dress up and feel cool. It would be vain and egotistical. World leaders, religion institutions, social groups and humanity in general would be shitting in their pants and all because Clark wanted to do cool shit and be known.

That's why the movie is set up as an alien invasion type of story where Clark has to stop other aliens of wrecking the status quo instead of him being the one messing with the status quo.
>>
>>81484365
At least he's not directing WW and Aquaman
>>
>>81494686

Goyer gets mentioned a lot, while nobody has the guts to call Terrio names. You know this. Look at the poster i quoted.
>>
>grow up reading and loving comic books
>become fortunate enough to actually direct, write, and produce movies based on the properties you grew up with.
>the comic book "fans" hate you and what you put your love, blood, sweat and tears into because you didn't make things to their ultra-specific liking.

If I received the kind of abuse Snyder does from you guys, I'd troll the shit out of you guys in interviews too.
>>
>>81494615
I'd like to add to this: If you think that these studios don't care about the movies reputation as long as it makes money, go read up on some Sony e-mails on wikileaks.
The faggot suits are sending every clickbait article about their shit to each other like they're shitposters on /tv/. They very much do care about their image when it comes to tentpole movies.
>>
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>>81494729
And thank god for that. Live action Aquaman has got me all giddy and shit.
>>
>>81494785
examples? sounds hilarious
>>
>>81494749

I often wonder if Snyder is going out of his way to fuck with his critics, but I'm pretty sure any desire to troll would be outweighed by his desire to have a successful production. Does he really want to risk alienating potential customers for some catharsis?

Then again, maybe he just doesn't care anymore.
>>
>>81494749
If he's such a big fan why can't he name a comic book he likes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD3byJxc9Vc
>>
>>81484365
Except that you yourself established that Supes' not wearing a costume, but what's basically a uniform from his planet. I wonder if Snyder has the same problem directing period pieces, because actors are wearing "funny clothes".
>>
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>>81494749

You know what's funny in all of this?

You have DC readers complaining about the characters in the movies being different from the ones in the comics and dismissing the movies as some kind of sin.

DC readers. DC fans, even. Guys that call themselves fan the company and it's comics. You know, the comics where one of the main concept is the idea of a multiverse where no universe or a take on a character is more or less valid than another.

People here talk about the multiverse, about hypercrisis and shit, and yet they still complain about characters being different and say shit like "the real Superman".
>>
>>81494884

The video is talking about movie influence, no?
>>
>>81494842
Nothing exciting, just evidence that they read shit like comicbookmovie or comingsoon. I'm sure if you gave more shits than I do, you could find some hilarious ones.
https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/22640
>>
>>81494884
From what I can tell, the question was kind of shit and he just didn't understand how to answer it.

Part of the reason Snyder got 300 in the first place was because he was a big Frank Miller fan and tried to make a film based on it before.
>>
>>81494749
He doesn't fucking get those characters though.

He created a travesty out of Watchmen and it was almost a 1:1 recreation.
>>
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>>81488380
>>
>>81494930
If the measure of "realness" is how many people see it, then the movies are the most "real" a superhero ever is. It's THE version of the character for millions of people.

So no, most comic fans, and most casuals for that matter, do not consider movies to be elseworlds or multiversal offshoots. When a studio makes a Superman movie, it is THE Superman. Period.
>>
>>81494930
I think most people expect a fairly default version of characters (especially the big ones) when they see them on the silver screen, not some radical Elseworlds tale. Is it wrong to expect that? Maybe, but it is what it is.
>>
>>81495099

Your argument have a problem: there has been multiple different takes on Superman and Batman in media ranging from cartoons to tv shows and movies.
>>
>>81495155

But what default version? Even if we go by the "main" version kind of thinking there has been multiple and very different "main" Superman thanks to reboots. Heck, right now you have the main version Supes from before Flashpoint in the same universe with the main version Supes from after Flashpoint.
>>
>>81495171
Has there really? Adam West Batman aside, Batman and Superman have been portrayed pretty consistently in mainstream media.
>>
>>81485935
>Ant-Man is a flavor of the week, Superman and Batman are transcendent!

He was right about this though.

And it only makes the fact that he failed to make a billion all the more embarrassing.
>>
>>81490977
I like this one better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwcJjE_61XE
>>
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>>81488380
>>
>>81495246

So Tim Burton's Batman, who was a murderous psycho, is the same as Michael Schumacher's Batmen? I've to count Schumacher's as two different versions because while Val Kilmer killed a lot George Clooney was more like Adam West's Batman. AND THEN they're all different from Nolan's Batman.

There's no consistency there, man.
>>
>>81495243
I figure the default is the core concept without too much influence from any given run (unless said run defined the character, like Miller's Daredevil).
>>
>>81494842
Here's one of Sony execs shitting their pants when rumors about selling back Spidey rights to Marvel popped up:
https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/139279
>>
>>81494930
While that is true, when you're trying to make a movie that is designed for mass consumption by a core fan base and newcomers a like it helps when you use the characterization that people are more used to. He's not wrong for going with a more serious Superman and having views on what these characters can and cannot do. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman have gone through many interpretations in their long careers, but one of the major criticisms of this film is that it's not the best representation of these characters. It feels off to a fair number of people and doesn't sit well.

Snyder and Goyer tried to take Superman into a more "realistic" scenario. but they had two movies now and still Superman just isn't working. They aren't wrong for doing it, but it didn't work.
>>
>>81495350

I don't know, man. Superman changed a lot throughout the ages.

Look, i understand not liking Snyder's Superman. You don't need to like a certain take. That's valid.

But complaining about it being different and not "true" to the comics is a weird fucking complain due to how DC operates.
>>
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>>81488380
screencapping this
>>
>>81495416
I was never one to criticize BvS with "not muh", even though I think Batman shooting somebody is a bit too far.
And even though Superman has changed a lot, he's still got some defining characteristics.
>>
>>81495246

What?

No.

Superman alone you have the bumbling Donner Clark Kent and the snarky Clark from Lois and Clark and STAS.

You have Superman Returns where Superman is a disconnected stalker who sits in space until he's needed, and you have mopey and depressed BVS Superman who frowns as he's worshiped like magical space jesus.

And Batman.

You have BATB's Silver Age Batman, you have BTAS's more stern and serious Batman, you have The Batman's more laid back friendly Batman.


Even in comics you have different interpretations ranging from Dixon's Batman to Morrison's Batman that read similar but very different.

If you're going to open your mouth at least think.
>>
>>81495500

Henry's Superman is still a good guy trying to do good, though.
>>
>>81495549
I never said DCEU Superman wasn't 'Superman', I'm just saying that Superman needs a few things to be Supes, you feel?
>>
>>81495385

See, i understand when people say that they didn't liked the new take. That's a good and valid reason and response.

I just have a problem when i see /co/posters going all "muh".
>>
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>>81488380

I don't understand why Snyder feels the need to show them develop their no-kill codes.

But that thing about it not being earned?

That was how I felt about Superman's angry scene with Lex after he throws Lois off the building. It's understandable why he's angry but one of my favorite things is when Superman is pushed to that breaking point. When he gets angry and you know shit is bad but I feel like there was nothing to make me enjoy it here.

Snyder's Superman doesn't have the contrast that makes that moment of anger feel substantial.

Any more stories about Nolan during MOS though? Was he even happy with the final product?
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>>81488380
nice
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>>81495729
I've always liked Superman being as civil as possible with Lex, but it's pretty tense beneath the surface. But that would take a good script and a competent director.
>>
>>81485935
Pretty sure Burton's Batman killed a couple of goons.
>>
>>81494749
>grow up reading and loving comic books

Thumbing through your roommates copies of The Dark Knight Rises and Watchmen a couple of times in the 80's does not equate to "growing up reading and loving comics."
>>
>>81495729

I blame Nolan for a few things in MoS.

For example is thanks to Nolan that we've Snyder now. It was Nolan that went after Snyder.

Goyer wanted to write a romance type of story starring Lois where Lois travel the world pursuing Clark and help him come out of his shell and become Superman. The movie then would have tons of flashback to him growing up with the Kents.

Nolan, though, wanted to focus on Krypton and create a first contact type of story where Krypton invades Earth and Superman has to choose a side.
>>
>>81495823
To be fair it was sort of cartooney, and they don't show the bodies.
>>
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>>81495793

I like that too but those moments of angry Superman, when used effectively, are great.

I feel like Snyder saw those moments where Superman is vulnerable, where he's angry, and he said "That's so cool let me just use that" and then ditched all the stuff that makes those few moments effective and meaningful.

He just can not grasp story structure or character writing for shit.
>>
>>81495819

What core? Explain, please.

I see people here complaining about Batman killing a lot. But Keaton's Batman killed too and with a grim.

So what core Burton managed to keep that Snyder failed to capture?
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Shit Snyder, what the fuck?
>>
>>81490977
>Sony when he says Stalyn
Kek
>>
>>81495823

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVIG7YvdjM

He's quite the murderer.

It's why I don't really care if a movie Batman kills. I'm just numb to it at this point after 7, 8 counting the 66 movie, movies where he kills but when you're premise is "Batman is mad about all the death and destruction" maybe give him his no-kill code.
>>
>>81495899
Righto, if Superman is composed 90% of the time, it's much more effective when he loses it.
Like the "World of Cardboard" thing.
>>
>>81495997

The only movie version murder that annoyed the fuck out of me was in Batman Begins. That whole Ra's al Ghul bullshit.

No, Batman. No. You killed him. You fucking set up the whole thing. It was a speeding train in movement and running faster than it should. The guy is a ninja alright, but come the fucking on. You killed him.
>>
>>81494930
You're completely failing to recognize that this is s fucking movie, theres different rules.
Elseworlds are okay in comics because
a) theres already plenty of establishing material for the character for readers to get a grasp on and provide weight to the fact that the character is different this time
b) individual comics aren't very hard to make so if the elseworld story winds up being stupid as shit, well no worries they can just go back to classic [character]
c) elseworld characters are very specifically set as a separate thing. It's okay to have a story where Superman is a cold government bitch and Batman are jaded murderer because everyone knows they aren't going to suddenly replace batman in main JL stories with oldman dickbats.

All these reasons completely fall apart when you try to do it for a movie. The general public has no clue what many superheroes are like. A lot of normal people think Superman is a shitty unhappy OP character because of shit like Snyder Superman. You need to do it right the first time before you go crazy with different takes.

And if the shitty 'muhture' take on a character flops well then GG you just totally fucked the character over. If Aquaman winds up being a shitty edgelord Snyder shit movie then there isn't a second chance, they'll just can Aquaman and we'll never get another Aquaman movie ever again.

And finally elseworlds often totally fuck with character story details that make it hard to put in stuff like a JL and also close many doors. Superman is dead now in the DCCU because of cuck Snyder. Story wise that's a dead end. You can't just bring back Clark or Jimmy, any potential new Supes movie is now incredibly crippled because Snyder thought it'd be fun to fuck with things.

Snyder is a hack with no foresight or talent at storytelling and constantly shoves his garbage themes and religious allegories into everything that only a 12 year old would think is deep.
>>
>>81496058

Or the infamous "Burn" like as I posted earlier.

They're effective and great moments because they're so rare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8
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>>81484549
>>
>>81496063
Hey, he said he said he wasn't gonna save him. Fair warning and all that
>>
>>81493873
Or maybe he is just bad at what he does
Maybe Pa Kent was right, all the actions clark did brought even worse consequences, from bringing an alien invasion to earth and being the main factor that triggered the rest of the events. That or just being stupid, the man broke the neck of zod and he is against Batman tactics? Come on
I'm going to fight the bat of gotham instead of trying to solve the situation in other way, or having to let a man save my mom instead of me.
I genuine believe Snyder doesn't get superman but probably hates him too
>>
>>81496102

I wasn't talking about Elseworlds. I was talking about the "main" versions.

DC isn't Marvel. They've rebooted many times. Golden Age Supes is different from Silver Age Supes who's different from 80's Supes and so on;

There has also been several and DIFFERENT takes on these characters in the media. George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, Dean Cain, Tom Welling and so on. All Superman.
>>
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>>81496102
See Anon, you're smart. Do you know why? Because I think you're the only guy ITT that realizes comics and movies are two different mediums.
>>
>>81493873

No. Jimmy's death was there because Snyder thought it'd be funny because everyone kept asking about him. There was no symbolism or reason. It was just because Snyder didn't have any interest in actually using him.
>>
>>81495823
KeatonBats blew up an entire chemical factory with Joker's goons still inside.

Honestly, I don't care whether Batman kills people or not, as long as there's a coherent plot going on. A movie doesn't have to cleave completely to its source (hell, they rarely do). But Snyder can't even tell a story without stumbling over his own MAN VS DOG Randian wankery.
>>
>>81495864
Where'd you get that info from?
>>
>>81496287

Come on, man. Just because he killed Zod now he must be a serial killer?
>>
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>>81495864
It was Goyer that included snapping Zodds neck in the first place! Nolan thought it was unnecessary but he was eventually convinced by Goyer and Zack. The way i see if Goyer can get the boot so can Zack and I bet you it was one of them that included pa kent characterization.
>>
>>81496063
it's not murder when they can just come back from the dead.
>>
>>81496373

Interviews. They're pretty fun. Snyder wanted a whole sequences where Jor-El's robot, Kelex, transforms into a huge robot and kill a bunch of Zod's soldiers.
>>
>>81496409
Movie version of Ra's doesn't have Lazarus Pits.
>>
>>81496386

Yes, Goyer wanted Zod dead, but he didn't liked the Krypton shit. He wanted Lois as protagonist. That's why you have that whole weird bit with her in the beginning.
>>
Superman's public image is ruined at this point. Unless his resurrection triggers some kind of change to his outlook on life, there is nowhere to go from here but down. It's obvious the public don't want Injustice Superman. They want the boyscout.

But Snyder won't let that happen. Angry Superman works because of how stark a contrast it is to his usual temperament. It's rare, but when it happens you know shits going down. It's special and can be cool, but not when it's thrown around so carelessly.

Make the Flash movie about Barry discovering the cosmic treadmill in the first 5 minutes and he spends the rest of the run time lecturing Pa Kent in how not to be a shitty parent. Fuck your horses, nigga.
>>
>>81496386

Goyer was proud of the whole "You're my son" bit. He even cried because at the time he was dealing with the fact that he was raising his wife's son. Not memeing.
>>
>>81496102
but here' a counterpoint
IT HAS TO BE GOOD
Kingdom Come
Red Son
Superman: The Dark Side (which was meh but passable)
These are all superman with different personalities and goals and THEY'RE GOOD
>>
>>81495899
Nolan was against Superman "dying" in BvS as well i think.
>>
>>81496480

Jonathan Kent wasn't a shitty parent. People just like to meme about him.
>>
>>81494701
That's a wonderful analysis that misses the entire point of why Superman would do fucking anything. He doesn't care about the glory. He cares about people. The movie took a genuine point that makes sense and is actually thought provoking and attached it to the one character who wouldn't give helping people a second thought. He'd just help. Leave all those things for another character, because Supes JUST HELPS. That's what is supposed to make him endearing.
>>
>>81496564
I don't know. Setting up your adopted son for a lifetime of guilt by telling him not save you doesn't seem like the best parenting move.
>>
>>81496588

Here's the thing: Clark would still be fucking the entire world collective mind just because he wanted to save a couple people in a flashy costume. This is why in the beginning of the movie Clark would save people but remain anonymous. The problem is not with helping, but the whole alien angle.
>>
>>81496381
Learn to read. A man that goes as far to break the neck of some villain to save lives critize the tactics of a vigilante that tries to protect his city by any way.
Hipocrisy at finest
>>
>>81496553

Is Nolan even still working on this shit?

I >>81496546

The thing about The Dark Side that works well is that it's a character study on the idea that no matter where Kal-El is raised, no matter how he's raised, at the core he's born a good person with a strong moral code.

There are a lot of Superman stories like that basically break apart what Superman is and isn't meant to be like. Like Dark Side, All Star Superman, or Truth, Justice, and the American Way.
>>
>>81496564
>"maybe you should've let those school children drown."
Yeah, what a great parent
>>
>>81496716

He killed one man, against his wishes, to save the entire world.
>>
>>81496709
just because you're a piece of shit doesn't mean everybody else is.
>>
>>81496635

Yeah, he fucked up on that one.

>>81496738

Why don't you post the whole quote?
>>
>>81496785

Did you evn read my post?
>>
Somebody please post the Man of Steel Pa Kent "this is an excellent plan"
>>
>>81496851
what does it matter if he's an alien or not if he is using his powers to help it doesn't make it any less believable.
>>
>>81484365
Time stamp
>>
>>81484549
maybe being dark and series is the problem
>>
>>81496987

Being dark for Superman might be the problem but in general it's not. Snyder being a shit director is the problem.

Comics, even capecomics, spotlight every damn genre there is.

There is no reason every movie needs to be light and fun just like there's no reason every movie has to be dark and serious.
>>
>>81496776
Batman risk his life and creates fears on the criminal to keep the people of gotham safe. Oh but according to clark is only right to do whatever it takes to save lives when he is the one doing it.
What a fucking hipocrite, and instead of talking things or settling down with Bruce he gives Batman even more reasons to not trust him. Hell if the flash is right superman is going full injustice against humanity.
You were always right about him Bruce
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>>81488380
>>
>>81496932

Because the entire world would lose it's shit. Kinda like what happened in BvS.

So if Clark decided to show himself as an alien with a flashy costume and all for no good reason that would be extremely vain, even if he's doing it to rescue a couple of people. He'd be basically be putting the lives of these people above the entire world.

That's why in the movie he saves people anonymously and only puts on the costume after Zod's invasion since that's already out of the bag.
>>
>>81497053

He only killed Zod and only because it was either that or the entire world dead. He's not killing on a regular basis. Batman's out there killing and branding people, which in turn kills them even after they're paying for their crimes. You can't compare.
>>
>>81496808
>Clark Kent at 13: What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?
>Jonathan Kent: Maybe

Oh, you wanted the rest?

>but there's more at stake here than our lives or the lives of those around us. When the world... When the world finds out what you can do, it's gonna change everything; our... our beliefs, our notions of what it means to be human... everything. You saw how Pete's mom reacted, right? She was scared, Clark.

Continuing to enforce that using his powers to help people is bad. Whereas Jor-El tells him that is the exact reason why he sent Clark to earth. Jor-El is dead and is a better father than Pa Kent in this movie.
>>
>>81497173
>He only killed Zod
I guess you missed the first scene in BvS with Superman where he runs a man through 14 fucking walls.
>But he had a gun to Lois's head!
He could've easily pulled back and just slammed him into the wall or zipped behind him and grabbed the gun and him. He's fucking Superman and he's literally faster than a SPEEDING BULLET.
>>
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Warner deserves everything that's happening now

and everyone knows the next movie will flop
>>
>>81497103
First of all stop trying to come at superman from a jaded perspective he is a comic book character he is an ideal of hope he doesn't give a shit how you see him he's doing good because HE wants to do good.
>>
>>81497208

Think about what you're reading.

Jonathan there was worried and angry, but only because he was scared. He didn't had an answer. He's not even sure of what he said when he said "Maybe". He's just scared about what would happen with the world and Clark at such a young age if the secret gotten out.

It is a very emotional scene where we see a very emotional response between both characters. I hate how people nitpick this particular scene. It's like Jonathan can't react as a human.
>>
>>81497302

He doesn't kill the warlord.
>>
>>81497333
>>81496386
This Pa Kent is also acting human He wants his son to use his gifts for good even worrying on his deathbed Clark might abuse it somehow.
>>
>>81497378
proof?
>>
>>81497308

I want to hope Wonder Woman will do well.

It's in the same boat as Suicide Squad in that it has a somewhat competent director.

Wondy is also a character that works well with a more serious tone. This being her first film and the first female superhero movie could boost it too.

I think the problem it could face is more from Gadot's acting not being able to carry a movie.
>>
>>81497310

You're not getting what i'm saying. I'm not saying Superman is vain per see. I'm saying that if he put on a costume and went out there he'd be basically wrecking the status quo of the world in a very big way and for what? Just because he MUST wear a costume? Just because people MUST know about his existence? That's why Superman in the movie saved people in anonymity.
>>
>>81497453

Superman said so in the movie and we aren't shown that the guy died.
>>
>>81490446
>T-t-thats not true! He smiled TWICE! Hah! Got you faggot! I totally got you!
>>
>>81497442

Yeah, but why then Pa Kent only told Superman to act on his deathbed? Why not sooner? If i were to nitpick this panel to hell i'd say that this Pa Kent is a huge cunt that is only letting Clark be himself because he's dying. See what i did there?

And yes, i knew Clark acted as Superboy way before that, and yes, i know that the Superboy bit came later and was retconned in, and yes, i know that in the 60's when they set up Earth-2 they retconned it again to make it so that Earth-2 never acted as Superboy.
>>
>>81497333
Except EVERY Pa Kent scene is full of this bullshit double talk. They don't actually give Clark any real guidance. This shit even continues in BvS with Martha telling Clark "You can save them. Or don't. You don't owe them anything."

Another Pa Kent quote:

>Clark Kent at 13: I wanted to hit that kid. I wanted to hit him so bad.
>Jonathan Kent: I know you did. I mean, part of me even wanted you to, but then what? Make you feel any better? You just have to decide what kind of a man you want to grow up to be, Clark; because whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's... He's gonna change the world.

That's hardly guidance. It's more of a warning. All of his scenes are like this. This results in an adult wandering the world searching for his purpose. Because of how he was raised. Then he meets Holo-dad and finally gets a purpose.
>>
>>81497527
Not that guy but I'm also curious as to when he says that.

Was it in the beginning when he was with Lois or at another point?
>>
>>81497527
When the fuck did he say so? And how did a human survive getting smashed through a shitton of rock walls in this hyper-realistic world they're so adamant on creating?
>>
>>81497646
What Pa Kent has been telling clark to use his powers for good his whole life.
I don't think you read comics
>>
>>81497653

>Except EVERY Pa Kent scene is full of this bullshit double talk. They don't actually give Clark any real guidance. This shit even continues in BvS with Martha telling Clark "You can save them. Or don't. You don't owe them anything."

Because they don't have the answers, are just worried parents and ultimately the choice must come from Superman himself.
>>
>>81497687

I'm nitpicking that panel just like people nitpick those scenes from MoS. I know the goddamn context. I'm just being an asshole to prove my point.
>>
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>>81497646
Look he is even encouraging Clark when he's down
>>
>>81497682
>>81497684

Later when he's talking to Lois.
And the guy surviving that isn't out of the realm of possibility. People always survive shit like that in movies.
>>
>>81497770
What point? That Pa kent in the movie is shit? we all know that.
>>
>>81497813
maybe if the movies wasn't always doom and gloom for the "realism".
>>
>>81497799

That's not the same Pa Kent. Can i use scenes from Richard Donner's movies or Smallville to defend Man of Steel's Jonathan Kent?

>>81497838

That you're nitpicking that moment and twisting things around. Jonathan in MoS was just a worried parent. ANY parent would prioritize the safety of their child and worry about their future. For the movie Jonathan and Martha shit is even harder because they have to worry not only about their son but the fate of the entire world. The characters in the movie responded in a very human way.
>>
>>81497948
You keep saying "human" like that means something just because you're "human" doesn't mean I have to like you or your "actions".
ps. Even Donner Pa kent was supportive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUGDRxJnFU
Fuck you snyder
>>
>>81498286

The difference is that MoS Pa worried about the world's reaction and the Richard Donner's movies never addressed things like that.
>>
>>81498360
>t-those pa Kent examples of him acting "human" and supportive d-don't count
>i-i can use Donners Pa Kent to defend MOS pa Kent
>No you can't watch this
>that doesn't count even i said he acted the same way
Keep moving those goalposts buddy i'm done here
>>
>>81498718

No, i didn't said any of that shit.

Richard Donner's Pa is a very good Pa, but the movie have another goal. The movie doesn't want to explore the repercussions the existence of a alien might cause.

In MoS they do and so Pa worry about said repercussions. That's why i can separate both portrayals.
>>
>>81497480
>Just because he MUST wear a costume? Just because people MUST know about his existence?
No, you fuckwit. He WANTS to SAVE PEOPLE. Them knowing about him is a side effect of HELPING PEOPLE. You're fabricating this idea that there's an egoism at play when Supes is often not about notoriety at all. I get that there are demonstrable implications of alien life that would rock the world to the core, but Supes should be helping people, end of fucking story. The world will do as the world does, and Superman is not their fucking nanny, he's there to show them a brighter tomorrow. He's the fucking Man of Tomorrow. All these hypotheticals of how the world probably would react are only put in to justify the "realism", as if somehow by putting Superman in the real world it'll improve him. But when your ideal of the real world and "realism" only serves to turn a symbol of peace and good into an insecure, fumbling man who has no idea whether what he's doing is the right thing, then that cynicism and negativity of how the world is only proves the necessity for a true blue Superman.

Superman only outing himself to save the world in order to fight Zod and therefore have his immediate name be recognized as reactionary to the world is only serviced towards making him controversial and having his heroism put on trial and under the microscope because historically, the first thing Kryptonians did to Earth was buttfuck it. The entire story is crafted in order to perpetuate this paranoia and fear around what should be the symbol of fucking hope. There's no room in their cast of characters for Superman to have a best friend, no, why would he? This is realistic, alien pariahs don't get best friends.

Fuck you and your realism. Superman is fantastic and larger than life. We shouldn't come out of a Superman movie feeling worse than we came in. It's anathema to the core of the character and what he represents if I'm fucking glad he doesn't exist by the end of the movie.
>>
>>81497735
>ultimately the choice must come from Superman himself.
Except it doesn't. Jor-El tells him to do it.
>>
>>81499033

>No, you fuckwit. He WANTS to SAVE PEOPLE. Them knowing about him is a side effect of HELPING PEOPLE. You're fabricating this idea that there's an egoism at play when Supes is often not about notoriety at all. I get that there are demonstrable implications of alien life that would rock the world to the core, but Supes should be helping people, end of fucking story.

That's what Supes did in MoS, but he did so while remaining anonymous.

>The world will do as the world does, and Superman is not their fucking nanny, he's there to show them a brighter tomorrow. He's the fucking Man of Tomorrow. All these hypotheticals of how the world probably would react are only put in to justify the "realism", as if somehow by putting Superman in the real world it'll improve him. But when your ideal of the real world and "realism" only serves to turn a symbol of peace and good into an insecure, fumbling man who has no idea whether what he's doing is the right thing, then that cynicism and negativity of how the world is only proves the necessity for a true blue Superman.

Superman in BvS despite his insecurities and doubts still sacrificed his life for the people so i don't know what you're talking about. Superman can't falter at any moment?

>Superman only outing himself to save the world in order to fight Zod and therefore have his immediate name be recognized as reactionary to the world is only serviced towards making him controversial and having his heroism put on trial and under the microscope because historically, the first thing Kryptonians did to Earth was buttfuck it.

If Superman outed himself just because it would be a lot worse. If he can save lives and still remain anonymous, then why does he need to put a suit and make himself be known knowing full well that people won't take his existence well? See the conundrum now? That's why he only outed himself in the movie when Zod forced him to. Because then it isn't about HIM, but rather ZOD.
>>
>>81485935
What about how "My Superman is True Canon".
>>
>>81499384
>If Superman outed himself just because it would be a lot worse.
If you fucking write it that way, maybe.
>then why does he need to put a suit and make himself be known knowing full well that people won't take his existence well?
Because you never know until you try. If Supes had outed himself earlier and proven himself as selfless and helpful, when Zod comes by all evil then the world can still remember when Supes was good because Supes beats him.

>Superman can't falter at any moment?
Not before he's out the fucking gate. Not for 20 years wondering if helping people is the right thing to do. Superman would ALWAYS do the right thing. If the choice is between your dad dying and revealing yourself, that is NOT A FUCKING CHOICE. Save people, every time.

> If he can save lives and still remain anonymous, then why does he need to put a suit and make himself be known
TO SAVE MORE LIVES. Acting out in the open, in daylight, makes doing ANYTHING fucking incredibly easier. If you're GOING to act in public, if you want to have a side-life (because everyone deserves to), you don't need those crossing over, so you have the alternate identity. There is such a fucking thing as necessary evils and dressing up in a suit is anything but fucking vain.

Supes shouldn't even be entirely about saving lives either. Him having a friendly relationship with the public is fucking integral as well. But why should Superman spend time helping people just by being nice to them, that's not realistic!
>>
>>81499668

>Because you never know until you try.

So Supes in the movie should just wing it? Why?

>TO SAVE MORE LIVES. Acting out in the open, in daylight, makes doing ANYTHING fucking incredibly easier.

So he just out himself just to make things easier for himself? That's very selfish.

>Not before he's out the fucking gate. Not for 20 years wondering if helping people is the right thing to do. Superman would ALWAYS do the right thing. If the choice is between your dad dying and revealing yourself, that is NOT A FUCKING CHOICE. Save people, every time.

So he should know and be ready things since the start and only falter maybe after 20 years? That's very arbitrary and weird.

>Supes shouldn't even be entirely about saving lives either. Him having a friendly relationship with the public is fucking integral as well.

But he'd still get shit in the beginning because he's a powerful alien.
>>
>>81493751
I've long attributed Snyder's failings with anything not written by Miller to his adherence to Objectivism, the philosophy of primo autismos. He's making a Mr. A movie with superman in his place.
>>
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>>81484365
>I want Snyder defenders to finally shut the fuck up.
Cute. They'll never, ever shut the fuck up. They'll have to stop moving first.
>>
>>81499384
>why does he need to put a suit and make himself be known knowing full well that people won't take his existence well?
Then shouldn't you be questioning why he wears a suit in the final battle at all anyway? The suit is armor, the S is his home pride. If he didn't have that suit and wanted to save people before Zod showed up, then the suit would be there as a disguise so he doesn't have his personal life constantly bombarded. These are the reasons Superman wears anything besides regular fucking clothes. It's not to attract attention. It's either protection or so he is seen as a separate entity from his personal life. He doesn't wear a mask because that builds a sense of distrust.
>>
>>81499849
Holy shit, get your fucking cynicism out of here. Of course he fucking wings it if there's a universe where superheroes don't exist. No, he wears the suit to make it easier to SAVE PEOPLE. It's easier on him, sure, but BILLY GETS TO LIVE. That's all that matters.
He may have reservations about what he does, and wonder if he's doing the right thing, but from the getgo he is always trying to help.
>But he'd still get shit in the beginning because he's a powerful alien.
So fucking don't focus on those cunts. The story of Superman should not be about how humanity hates and fears him and thinks everything would be better without him. Luthor is always portrayed as paranoid for being afraid of someone who unequivocally does only good. LUTHOR is fucking ego and evil in humanity, Supes represents good. Supes does things to help people, and Luthor only wants to help himself. You're being fucking Luthor in this equation because you think it's suspicious for someone to be so good. Anyone suspicious about something good and trying to do something about it is probably up to no good themselves.
Luthor doesn't care about saving the planet from Supes the menace, he cares about being RIGHT about Supes being a menace.
>>
>>81494261

Heres the thing people are missing.

This isnt just a batman movie, or a superman movie. This isnt a dark knight trilogy, were we get a version of a character in stand alone stories that dont interact with other characters from the source material. Bales batman was actually a pretty far departure from a lot of what makes batman batman, but they are great movies and make a good elseworlds story.

Now when your creating a cinematic universe to rep DC....expectations become higher. The movies were always going to be an interpretation of many different sources of the characters. They were always going to be elseworld stories. Everyone except the most autistic of fans know we arent getting page by page retellings of the classic comics.

The issue is that we want an elseworlds story thats as close to the general perception of the character from their collective history.

Have we seen batman kill in various media, yes. Does that excuse our definitive batman in the DCU killing? And its not just the killing, its so much more then that. For every part of the characters they got right, they took other parts in wild directions that betrays that general perception. It leaves fans of these heroes to ask...who is this movie for? Its not going to be an epic telling of the DC universe...its some strange fanfic of it.

and the approach was just insulting in the end, because we have classic scenes being recreated without the characterization needed to make them work

Im not saying make it exactly like bruce timms universe (although im not saying to not not do that either) Its okay to make batman a little more brutal, superman a little less hopeful, to fit your narrative, but it wasnt subtle, its dramatic changes, theyd be unrecognizable if you changed their names and took them out of their beautiful suits

a shallow understanding of the characters
>>
>>81500047
>>81500167

I'm not talking about doing good, i'm talking about him revealing his nature and putting on a flashy costume. Doing good is GOOD, but revealing his nature fucks the status quo. The costume make things worse.

I know, it is a Superman movie, but they tried to find a good excuse for it because they wanted a realistic universe.

So Superman did good deeds while remaining anonymous because he knew that if people found out about him the status quo of the world would be fucked. And he only put the costume when Zod showed up because by then it didn't mattered anymore. By putting the costume and giving himself in he was trying to show that there are aliens that are also good and his symbol can be seen as good. Like an ambassador or sorts.
>>
>>81500273

Why should a Cinematic Universe be definitive? There are can be multiple Cinematic Universes. You don't have to treat it as the end all be all of these characters in movie form. There will be other movie takes in the futures.
>>
>>81500564

yeah cool then, ill just wait for the next one when they reboot it in 5-20 years and hope I like that interpretation.

Your right, no need to be upset. maybe they will do better before I die, not like anyone was all that excited about the movie anywaymotherfuckingfuckyou
>>
Daily reminder that Nolan had Batman talking while in costume, and his movies were critically acclaimed financial successes and praised for their serious dramatic tone. The Marvel movies don't aspire to seriousness very often, and still make movies that work well as what they aspire to be, make money, and get people excited to continue watching them. Sam Raimi was able to have Spider-Man movies where Spider-Man converses and quips, and sometimes gets into serious, tense situations, all with a full mask on. So maybe, Snyder, you just aren't skilled enough to make this whole "superhero" thing work.
>>
>>81500692
And that's why Superman had to obliterate all his own people.
>>
>>81495640
But that's not muh you dumb fuck
>>
>>81500781

Superman killed the Pocket Universe's kryptonian criminals during the 80's, though. Then he kept on killing every now and then in the comics. He even killed Darkseid in Final Crisis and that was written by /co/ darling Grant Morrison.
>>
>>81500497
>but they tried to find a good excuse for it because they wanted a realistic universe
And completely orphaned the ideal of Superman from the parent ideals of optimism and altruism. Why the fuck can't he put on the costume and actively make a good name for himself as an alien? Why make it a reactive "a-aliens can be good too watch". The status quo is fucked if there's aliens. Sure. But it doesn't have to be fucked in a bad way. New status quo can be "Hey, there's an alien guy helping people!" Just DON'T FUCKING FOCUS ON THE PARANOID NUTJOBS WHO THINK SUPES HAS AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE. Just have him be a goddamn hero. He doesn't remain anonymous because that breeds distrust. He doesn't hide in the shadows, he doesn't cover his face. He's just there, to help.

>And he only put the costume when Zod showed up because by then it didn't mattered anymore.
It didn't matter because the first impressions of Kryptonians was fucked by Zod. Because he didn't act sooner. After that he was saving face, THAT is egotism by your logic.

Supes doesn't need to wait for a villain to be a hero. He's a hero because he SAVES PEOPLE, he saves people because it's the right thing to do. That's the fucking beginning and end of Superman. That's what MoS managed to miss.
>>
>>81500497
>revealing his nature
The fuck do you mean by this? You mean revealing his powers? Or revealing his good intentions?

>the costume makes things worse
Not really. If he looked like some regular person, then people would become paranoid about each other and we'd get some X-Men type of paranoia scenario. The suit sets him apart, makes it clear that it's not just a random person, and splits him off from his secret identity. It's literally his uniform the way police and firefighters have uniforms. They both identify their position and protect them from the dangers of their professions.

Really, you should question why the fuck he has a big red cape.

>So Superman did good deeds while remaining anonymous because he knew that if people found out about him the status quo of the world would be fucked.
You keep talking about this but both you and the film assume the absolute worst about humanity. Yes, people would freak out. Sure, some may call him a deity. But if he goes around and says "No, I'm just an alien. I grew up as a humble kid and I just want to do good." and then does exactly that, the general public would be on his side.

But this never happens in the movies. He's never seen being interviewed or interacting with people on a human level. He literally just stands there and LETS people worship him. And then when he finally goes to a government hearing (which he wasn't even going to bother fucking attending), it blows up and we're robbed of yet another moment where Superman could actually give a statement of who he is and what he represents. Up until this point nobody knows shit about him besides what they've seen and what Zod said.

>By putting the costume and giving himself in he was trying to show that there are aliens that are also good
Except that reasoning makes little sense. Who the fuck is he representing when he's the last of his kind? "Hey guys, not all aliens are bad even though I don't actually know any other aliens."
>>
>>81500902

But why does Superman needs to out himself to save people? Superman wanting to be accepted as alien is vain. Because then it is about his personal feelings.
>>
>>81500893
Don't give a fuck, anon. The question isn't has Superman killed, it's should we want him to. Grant Morrison spoke out against Superman being used to kill. Bryne is a pedophile hack whose responsible for Superman's stagnation today and everybody hated it then. That does mean to emulate shitty/stupid things in comics a hand full of nerds read to the population. There was NO reason for Superman to destroy his entire culture. Period.
>>
>>81500902

If anything superman embodies what all heroes in comics should, something my uncle once told me....shortly before he died
>>
>>81501042

Grant Morrison speak a lot of shit. He said that he hadn't written a rape scene in his comics for years when that wasn't true. He might say that Superman shouldn't kill but in Final Crisis he had Superman kill twice.
>>
>>81497173
Yes you can compare. He is doing what is necessary for his city. He will do anything to protect his city and the world, that's why he is so ruthless. Oh but Clark got a free pass because of Zod, guess what Bruce faced doomsday and was the one with the tools to defeat him. So now both faced a world menace it proves batman methods were the right ones.Flash warns bruce about superman going evil, and in the other hand we have Clark somehow believing he has the moral high ground because when he is the one facing the menace is right to do it.
I mean everybody has his powers and abilities, amirite?
Fucking hipocrite alien.
Once again kills doomsday just like Batman would it had do
It seems like Clark is wrong once again
>>
>>81501151
Seems like he's just another example neither of us can use then. That doesn't defeat my point.
>>
>>81501190

It kinda does. Superman has killed several time in the comics. Complaining about him doing it in the movies as it was a huge betrayal of his character is pure bullshit.
>>
>>81497813
Or maybe he did kill the guy and you can't prove the contrary
>>
>>81501163

The difference is that Superman did because he had no choice, Batman does because he wants to. That's Clark's issue.

>>81501248

Superman said he didn't.
>>
>>81501015
>But why does Superman needs to out himself to save people?
TO SAVE THE MOST PEOPLE. To do the most good. If they don't accept him, they won't want to be saved by him. He has to put himself out there as a result of wanting to save people. Because fuck, sure his reputation is at stake, but so are people's lives. You get more done if you can work WITH people and not against them.
> Because then it is about his personal feelings.
Only to the extent that "I won't be able to live with myself if I sit by while I could have done something about a situation right in front of me." Supes saves people because he is there. Superman is a fucking icon and symbol for good, and sells that message to everyone, that everyone can do the right thing.
see >>81500977
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