How did Snyder manage to screw this up? Literally flopping

Richard Donner: "Let's give the public the Superman they know and love, a symbol of hope."
Everyone after him: "Look at me deconstruct icons, they'll love that"

File: Just call me Angel of the Morning BABY.png (523KB, 1761x1477px) Image search: [Google]

523KB, 1761x1477px

Reminder: DC's two biggest stars have earned less on seven out of their first ten days than Deadpool did. This despite Deadpool having fewer screens, an R rating, and no premium ticket prices driving up numbers.

it's difficult to tell a superman story that hasn't been done and would also appeal to the masses. They need to go high scifi with it which is why it would fail. There don't need to be anymore superman movies.

batman would work better as a premium cable tv show, if you try to fit a batman story into 2 hours you wont have anything other than a "hey, well that was pretty neat" experience street levels require build up

>>81430890
His movie is supposed to be a Superman sequel about the start of his friendship with Batman, but made an adaptation of a Batman comic depicting the end of that relationship.

File: 1432338651532.jpg (45KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 800x800px

>>81431146
>tfw we'll never get a gritty batman show

It's pretty depressing.

I enjoyed it but I can see how it wouldn't be very popular.

File: so sorry Bruce.jpg (18KB, 680x349px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 680x349px

>>81431124
I don't know what's depressing, the fact that the movie's the blunder of the year, the fact that an R rated cape movie got the better over two iconic heroes or Ben Affleck's reaction to the whole thing.

>>81431124
>BvS production budget $250m

I thought the script and all the 3 years took $400 mil to put to screen

Am I missing something here?
What was the actual budget of BvS?

>>81430890
>Richard Donner: "Let's give the public the Superman they know and love, a symbol of hope.

Looking back at Donner's movies. They really don't hold up. I don't have nostalgia goggles that most others have.

Can't wait for Batfleck's solo film. That's all. Enjoyed the shit out of his scenes. If anything this movie gave me the GOAT big screen Batman.

>>81432208
1 and 2 hold up pretty good if you want campy and lovable Superman.
Christopher Reeves still stands as the best Superman on screen in terms of charisma.

If only we could somehow combine the action of the 1940 rotoscoped cartoons with the color and tone of the 78 Superman film, and use modern film making techniques.

>>81430890
Snyder hates the concept of superheroes and desperately wants to destroy them.

>>81431146
>it's difficult to tell a superman story that hasn't been done and would also appeal to the masses. They need to go high scifi with it which is why it would fail. There don't need to be anymore superman movies.
This is what Marveldrones actually believe

File: Dawn of JUST.jpg (56KB, 414x438px) Image search: [Google]

56KB, 414x438px

>>81432312
>In a way Justice League is Watchmen
capekino director t-b-h

>>81432271
1 and 2 didn't hold up for me and it wasn't the "camp". Reeves was pretty good, but not so good that every actor should just copy what he did. They tried that already if you remember, it didn't work.

(The 1940's cartoon was excellent though i agree)

But it's funny watching the Superman vs Zod fight in the second movie, a lot of shit got destroyed. It was on a smaller scale because of special effects and all, but a shitload of shit got fucked up. Also Zod gets depowered and kicked into a bottomless pit. Just saying.

I agree that Goyer/Snyder's supes is too fucking stoic. I am as far from a supermanfag as possible i went to see Batman. That said, Supes should be the happy boyscout type and Bats is the brooding one. It's the contrast that makes it work. So in that i agree, I think the animated JLAU Superman is sort of a good halfway point between Stoic and boyscout. Probably my personal favorite version of the character.

My hope is someday we get a second version of Batman x Superman movie but this time called world's finest and they're broes and all. But Supes is closer to the JLAU version

>>81432312
This is funny considering Snyder fully embraced the comic book madness in BVS, while the fan favorite Nolan pretty much shied away from the comic book stuff. Seems like one dislikes comics more than the other.

>>81431021
underrated post. on the nose.

>>81432312
Snyder may not be a conscious agent of Darkseid, but he is definitely being controlled by him.

>>81432385
>This is what Marveldrones actually believe
Funny, because that seems to be the Snyderfag justification. Superman is too campy and cheesy, he needs to be deconstructed and realistic in order to work!

>>81432424
Problem with the idea of Batman vs Superman is that it is a flawed premise.
Like the movie shows how flawed it is. 2 hours of giving us reasons for why Batman would want to slap Superman's shit left and right, but 5 minutes before the actual fight they had to asspull why Superman would even want to confront Batman.

And it is like that every time they even consider butting heads.
Either you get DKR, where one is reluctant to fight the other and holds back, or you get mainline comic storylines, where one is brainwashed or forced to fight, but then they manage to come to terms by explaining or breaking the control somehow.

>>81432481
Nolan intended to make a self-contained trilogy of a more "realistic" Batman, and still adhered to a lot of the classic comic book stories.
Batman Begins = Year One
Dark Knight = Killing Joke and a couple other stories
Dark Knight Rises = Knightfall and Dark Knight Returns

Snyder decided, for some fucking awful reason, that for 80+ years of Superman stories, the one he had to adapt to the big screen was Death of Superman. And he did it as the 2nd movie in the DCEU. And somehow made it worse and managed to not have the option for retcon like DoS did (Snyder killed "Clark Kent" where DoS only listed him as MIA).
That and Snyder killed Jimmy Olsen because he couldn't find room for him in the universe they were building.

>>81432556
>Superman is too campy and cheesy, he needs to be deconstructed and realistic in order to work!

Worked for Nolan with Batman. Also it's funny people ONLY mention Snyder. Not Goyer who wrote the fucking thing.

>>81432621
Snyder, Goyer, Terrio, and the Warner Bros committee are all to blame for this.
Snyder takes the most laurels by slapping his name all over it and having so much creative control over it, so he takes the most blame.

>>81432621
If a cook serves you shit and blames the ingredient supplier its still the cooks fault for not getting better ingredients.

>>81432621
WB made Snyder the creative director of the DCCU. That means it's squarely on his shoulders.

>>81430890
They got the shittiest person ever to play wonder woman and she fucked up the whole movie.

>>81432189
advertising maybe?

>>81432687
The cook still has to make his dish with said ingredients though.

Snyder still had a script to follow.

>>81432208
They don't age well, but what Superman needs is to bring back Reeve's charm, his charisma, and his light, and give it the badass new coat of paint that Cavill's Superman has.

>>81432789
Snyder has a ton of control over what goes. It's not like he just sits on his ass and follows what he's told to do.

>>81432621
>Worked for Nolan with Batman.
First, and I seriously cannot believe I need to say this, but Superman and Batman are different characters. Some approaches will work better for some characters. Others will not. The idea that you fix everything by making it like Batman is exactly why this shit is tanking so hard.

Second, Nolan didn't really break new ground. The Burton Movies, the Miller Comics, even the animated stuff had already started Batman down the road of being a little darker .Yeah there was Adam West but for fucks sake it was a long ass time ago.

Superman was in a different place. Returns' complaints weren't that it was campy, it was that it was a boring rehash lacking on action. The solution to that doesn't need to be a dour deconstruction with subpar pacing and characterization

Third, I'll blame Goyer too. Except the credits always say Story By Zack Snyder AND someone else. He's the consistent thread.

>>81432789
No a cook with as much clout as he had can go 'this is shit. these are rotten' and send it back and ask for something better. He doesn't just have to work with the garbage he is given, its a choice he as DIRECTOR (thats the guy in fucking charge) can make.

Like do people really think a director given as much control over the product as snyder is given a script and goes 'oh well this is garbage but i guess i got no choice'?

>>81430890

>Donner: Let's fill people with light and hope
>Snyder: Let's show them how much it sucks to be a superhero

>>81432944
Speaking of script and director control, I don't think it's a coincidence the best parts or at least the most appreciated parts were Batman and that Affleck at least reportedly made a lot of changes once he came on. I mean yea no way did Snyder not ultimately "OK" this script but to get Ben interested or to accept the part changes were made, probably for the better.

>Ben 'I won two fucking Oscars for writing and directing' Affleck hired to play Batman.
>Movie is directed by Zack 'my only 3 moderately successful films got mixed reviews and came out over a fucking decade ago' Snyder
>Is a direct sequel to Man of Steel, a movie that was received with a mixture of reluctant acceptance and rabid hatred, and the star of the first film gets second billing in his goddamn sequel.

This is the biggest disaster since Batman & Robin, and I sincerely hoe that everyone who CAN be fired over it is.

>>81430890

Disney Shills are saying it's bad.

It was absolutely Epic.

What are your complaints about it?

>>81432186
What was his reaction?

>>81433430
How is it people are still fucking asking why people didn't like this movie?

>>81433480
Kinda funny people keep making threads about a movie they "didn't like". You people talk about it more than those who enjoyed it.

>>81433480

Because it was a fun epic movie and delivered on it's promise of having a badass fight between Batman and Superman.

What were you looking for exactly?

The movie played exactly like an awesome comic book would.

File: SupermanPoster[1].jpg (24KB, 277x400px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 277x400px

>>81430890
Mods deleted my on topic thread for some reason, so I'll ask here.

Miss me yet?

>>81431124
fair enough, just remember marvel was supporting deadpool from the beginning with all its mighty might. That was a huge boost for ticket sales and promotion. Just the opposite of F4, what i dont get is what are they receiving in exchange. Maybe they want some mutants or F4 back, because inhumans are icky and suck

>>81433480

Retarded faggots who refuse to accept anything other than the truth just because MUH COMPANY

>>81433408
Batman & Robin was critically more successful and had much less of a box office drop on the 2nd weekend.

>>81433550
Yeah people around here bitch about stuff all the fucking time. This isn't headlining news. There are a million threads with people bitching about how much they hate BvS.

So again why the fuck do people keep going 'well what about it didn't you like?'

I mean how the fuck do people not know what people didn't like about this when there are thread after thread (as you just pointed out) going on and on and fucking on about it?

>>81432789
>Snyder still had a script to follow.
He's literally got story credits and we're still hiding behind the writers

>>81431320
and it was a great batman movie anon. Nobody in Co can say other thing. And a new Batman movie so close from Nolan's batman is such a huge success

>>81431124
It's also worth pointing out that BvS released in all territories at once, and Deadpool wasn't released in China.

File: 1439097011631.jpg (181KB, 540x657px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 540x657px

>>81433581
I do miss it

>>81433644
Yeah but why did we have to ruin Superman to get it?

>>81433604
>Batman & Robin was critically more successful
It's commonly placed on worst films of all time lists.

>>81433581
NO, what is good old lex doing these days? still with the real estate business, or now he is trying pyramid fraud. Ugggg no.

>>81433846
And it's Tomatoscore is higher than BvS.

>>81433644
>and it was a great batman movie anon.
A Batman movie that hinges on him being the worst detective in the entire movie is not a good Batman movie.

Seriously. Lex I can maybe excuse, but Lois and Diana were also better at gathering intel than he was.

>>81433455
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwXfv25xJUw

>>81433863
Nice sources.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1077027-batman_and_robin/
>11%
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_v_superman_dawn_of_justice/
>29%

>>81433814
come on! cme on! c´mon! There is no fucking way to make normies and casuals understand why batman is leading the justice league instead of supes if you dont make him look bad enough.

>>81432417
the most punchable face in hollywood

>>81433555
Okay yah wanna know. fine...here we go.
It was a shit film that had lots of fan service moments.

For me positives were as follows.
>Ben afflecks acting as batman.
He got the character down perfectly
>Gal Gadot wonder woman
she surprised me with the little she did
>Lex for the first half of the movie
Before he went full on joker i thought it was an interesting take
>some of the effects and action
the actual batman v superman fight...visually cool. the batmobile stuff looked awesome. The batman fight near the end with those mercenaries, fucking amazing. best batman fight ever put on film. One of the best super hero fights ever put on film. Gal gadot fighting doomsday looked really cool and how i wanted to see wonder woman fight. Those were some great fucking moments.

So yeah i liked those things.

cont...

>>81433991
What i hated
>it was chopped like shit
the editing was horrible. just tumbling sloppily into and out of scenes
>lex luthor second half
he started acting like the fucking riddler for some reason and nobody reigned him in
>the doomsday fight overall
ww was cool at moments but honestly the entire fight was an uninspired blurry mess. just people pounding on each other while buildings crumbled.
>the way they shoehorned in these dark knight returns moments without the kind of context that made them meaningful and effective
the fucking nuke scene with the sun healing superman is the one i hated most. It was just fucking meaningless when it could have been so much more.
>Luthors motivation was horribly fucking portrayed
Lex hates supes because dad was abusive and gods. He kept jumping into all these random concepts without ever really showing us a sensible motivation. Nothing made sense being personal to him. As a result i couldnt connect with him as a villain. He was just 'guy who wants superman to die' which for a movie so many are touting as deep seemed like shit characterization to me.

cont...

>>81434014
>batman is a fucking moron
Seriously this entire movies V plot is based on both its heroes being fucking retarded and easy to manipulate. For superman this isn't wholly ridiculous. But batman? The entire idea theyre putting forward is his extreme paranoia is what drives him to want to kill superman. And yet he isn't even slightly paranoid enough to consider hes being manipulated. Its batman hes the worlds greatest detective and he is duped like a goddamn clown in this. The entire fight with him and superman is even as it happens predicated on the idea these two have suddenly become such infants they are incapable of forming enough speech for either one to say jack shit to the other when they obviously would have. The reason for this is obviously so the audience has a fight to watch. But frankly it was a shit set up, allowing for shit motivation, which led to a fight that made no sense happening. Therefore as cool as the fighting was...the fight as a plot point was fucked for me.
>Batman kills
Yeah i dont give a shit that he does it in other movies. it was lame in those movies too. It doesnt mean the movie was objectively bad for it. But as a fan of batman i thought it was fucking lame to yet again have a batman arbitrarily taking lives.
>How they chose to portray superman.
I'm gonna go at this from a specific angle so you understand my issue. Lets have the flip side happen. Lets have a movie about batman okay. And in that movie batman goes on a date. Then he meets a new girl he likes even more. In one two minute scene he punches a bad guy as batman. Then hes out of costume and crooning over the first girl because it turns out the second was bad for him. And we spend the last hour of the film with superman talking to robin and alfred about how glad he is he met someone who gets his soul.

cont...

>>81433912
>rottentomatoes
now it is time co/ stop being drones. rotten tomatoes sucks balls. Feel your own pockets, if you feel robbed it was a bad movie. if you don't, it was good enough

>>81433581

Kinda, yeah

>>81434028
And its all quips and jokes and funny moments. like every one of the few times hes in costume its some silly in joke from the comics but no dark action or mystery or madness that is batman.
Well you see batman is allowed to be happy. in the comics he sometimes meets a nice girl. Sometimes he has a little romance. sometimes he chats and jokes with his friends.
And you see this and tell folks on here 'man that was a stupid fucking batman movie. it was a goddamn romance the whole fucking time batman was in a good mood he barely punched anybody what a shitty batman flick' and my reply is 'well that was just batman when he was in a good mood and happy. isn't batman allowed to be happy when things are going great and theres no real crime in gotham that night'
That is what it sounds like when people justify snyders portrayal of dour angry constantly threatening people superman. I'm not even going to give some 'ideal superman' because you've heard it before. But people always say this is just superman at his worst. Well thats where they fucked up, by having one movie of superman not being superman yet, and another movie of superman at his absolute fucking worst. It was depressing, and boring, and without any of the shit I would actually like to see as superman. Not muh superman? that is correct it wasn't fucking superman. It was a depressed mopey emo anger baby who says shit like 'i can bring you in without breaking you' as if his mercy to the puny human should be thanked, who just happened to have all of supermans powers and backstory.

You like the movie. cool thats great. but I don't hate this movie cos im an mcu fag. I don't hate this movie cos im on a bandwagon. I dont hate movie because it isn't a quip fest or guardians of the galaxy or some shit. I hate this movie because it was the last thing i wanted out of a superman/batman movie and i thought the movie was actually horribly put together and bloated to the point of having a shittily told narrative flow.

>>81431146

Wow that's complete nonsense.

>>81431021
Fucking money right here.

>>81430890
>2016
>movie about Superman and Batman
>2 weeks have passed
>did not hit 700 million yet

This is fucking pathetic, it's not even funny anymore. How can someone screw this shit up so bad? Snyder seriously needs to go if this shit won't reach 1 billion, this is not only about DC anymore but it's fucking embarrassment for the whole Superheroes genre. This is Superman and Batman 2 of the most iconic and the most beloved superheroes character, this outcome is disgraceful and unforgivable.

>>81432186
>The pic
On your left

>>81433430
Read, you shit-head. Half of the goddamn board is people explaining, in excruciating detail, what they hated about BVS.

>>81432481

Doesn't matter. One is a talented storyteller and the other isn't.

>>81433581

Absolutely.

File: 1458855244425.png (53KB, 240x242px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 240x242px

>>81433872
>forced laughter on Cavill's part
>Affleck staring into the abyss even before the second trailer's debut during cons

>>81433581
A little. I kind of liked Spacey's Luthor, but the movie did have lot of other problems.

>>81434080
lmao shut the fuck up you guys are ridiculous.
Movie's not-good, but it's not EPIC FUCK UP YOU FUCKING IMBECILE THIS IS TITANIC LEVELS OF FAILURE DKEKS.
It's an ~okay movie with good parts.

>>81432851
Aaaaand screen capped.

File: Cap laughs at the sad DC fanboys.jpg (148KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 600x800px

It's not a flop... but it's also nowhere near as good as how a fucking Superman and Batman movie should perform.

If you are a DC fan, as I am, you should be angry and disappointed.

How the fuck does a Batman and Superman movie, with Wonder Woman leading to Justice League, only score $30 mil less than fucking Deadpool this far along?!

It's only $100 mil beyond what Guardians of the Galaxy did a few years ago. Guardians of the fucking Galaxy.

The supposedly disapointing Iron Man and even more disappointing Avengers movies did way better than this. What the fuck? Also, Iron Man and Avengers aren't even my favorite Marvel characters and I enjoyed those.

Of course being a Spidey and X-men fan is suffering too. Yet I can't get how the fuck DC / Warners can be so fucking disappointing failures with their superheroes. They have fucking Batman and Superman for fuck's sake.

>>81431124
also the DOM box office for deadpool will be bigger. the only reason the WW box office will be less is due to not having a china release

>>81434045
>and another movie of superman at his absolute fucking worst
"There is no fucking way to make normies and casuals understand why batman is leading the justice league instead of supes if you dont make him look bad enough." in case you missed it.

File: sadfleck wallet.jpg (70KB, 670x503px) Image search: [Google]

70KB, 670x503px

>>81434116
CAN'T WAKE UP

>>81434160
>BvS
>Good parts
Are you fucking blind? It was a BAD movie. Seriously, It's hard to considered it a movie with that kind of edit and cut, it's almost as worse as Sucker Punch.

>>81431124
>premium ticket prices

I-...Is this a thing?

>>81433872

Goddamn, this breaks my heart every time. That poor guy.

>>81434160
It's a fucking awful movie. It's worse than any Uwe Boll movie.

>>81431367

It's called Daredevil.

>>81434223
Lemme tell yah something.
If in that movie batman kicked an old lady in the tits. Just hauled off and kicked an old lady in the tits and said 'I BELIEVE YOU' as her old wrinkly ass fell down a flight of concrete steps and into an unfilled swimming pool....and then he was leader of the JLA.....normies wouldnt give A FLYING FUCK. He could be the most useless idiot the world has ever seen but as long as he acts like batman (which he did) the casual audience member will take him over anyone else leading the justice league any day of the week. Because hes fucking batman. You don't need to make superman look like garbage to prop batman up as a leader when in this day and age his popularity eclipses supermans by fucking magnitudes.

>>81432189
marketing put it over 400m

>>81434199
>They have fucking Batman and Superman for fuck's sake.
An unknown batman and a hated superman anon. you must remember that.

>>81434199
This.

>>81434270

Man, realism fucking kills imagination.

File: batman suicide original.jpg (114KB, 385x425px) Image search: [Google]

114KB, 385x425px

>>81431124
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Stop the Planet of the Apes. I want to get off.

>>81434281
FU anon, for making me laugh with you fucking rant against my loved movie.

>>81433581
Missed you since MoS.

>>81434347
1, learn English. 2, I'm re-watching Alone in the Dark and having a blast. At least Uwe Boll has some MST3K-esque potential for mockery.

File: 1390105717951.jpg (193KB, 933x356px) Image search: [Google]

193KB, 933x356px

>>81434199
>If you are a DC fan, as I am, you should be angry and disappointed.
I'm a Superman fan first and foremost and I'm loving this because of how grossly they butchered Superman in MoS. How are you not loving this shit, Xenos? This shit is like Christmas.

File: grimdark glowey eyed man of steel 1385369850779.jpg (59KB, 612x692px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 612x692px

>>81434299
Well, yeah, the fact that they fucked up Superman right out of the gate is part of the huge problem. This shit makes Tim Burton's fucked up Nic Cage Superman seem quaint and a smart movie in comparison.

Of course I don't blame Cavill. Can't blame him for wanting to take on Superman. Too bad it was this shitty version. I really feel bad for him.

Honestly, I never saw a problem with Affleck as Batman. I don't think he was even a problem in Daredevil. Though I know plenty people had an issue with 'Batfleck'. Yet it's still fucking Batman and clearly they could have done a great job. Hell, Affleck did do a great job and even many naysayers were saying he was great despite the shitty movie and it's low performance.

>>81434282
no thats red captain america

File: Zack Snyder poo in the loo 1459241111051.jpg (260KB, 550x666px) Image search: [Google]

260KB, 550x666px

>>81434484
I'm fucking conflicted. I am glad such shitty versions are doing poorly. Yet the fact is they made these shitty version in the first place and it means yet another DC movie is doing shitty.

I'm more of a Batman fan, but I still love Superman. To see Superman as dark as Batman and so twisted is so fucked up. I guess there is a silver lining and some relief that audiences and critics reject Snyder's garbage views of Superman.

>>81434288
A second supermin movie before BvS was the best option. It didnt happen. Now this is the result. warner got greedy and desperate. They wanted that avengers money so bad they throw supermin under the bus

>>81434297
less than ams 2 and still a better movie.

File: Lex WRONG!.jpg (9KB, 509x319px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 509x319px

>>81434375
>>81433581
For all its flaws and that fucking stupid bastard super son plot, at least Superman Returns got the title character right.

As bad of a phoned in Hackman impression Spacey gave, and what a waste he was on a goofy Luthor, it was fucking perfect compared to Lex Zuckerberg boys ding ding ding.

Though both Lois Lanes were pretty shit, even if I like Adams.

Plus we got a decent Jimmy even if he wasn't ginger.

At least they didn't shoot Jimmy Olsen dead in the first three minutes of his appearance as the movie began.

Holy fuck.

>>81433588
lol no

>>81430890
1) Bad future dream sequences that made no sense unless you had comics background.

2) Stupid kidnapping contrivance to set up the final fight. A pity since the tension that had been developing was dropped entirely.

3) MARTHA.

4) Teasing the next movies in the just before your epic fight scene. Really killed the momentum.

5) Luthor didn't feel like a genius. He felt like a madman who fell off the edge at the end. Luthor does not go insane. He capitalizes and makes new plans. Another pity, since his elaborate setup wasn't bad.

6) No one expects Superman to stay dead.

>>81431124
I think it's more of a sign that cape fatigue is setting in.

Critics are already bored.

Apparently the Flash appeared in the dream sequence. Was it that obvious?

I thought it was Rip Hunter, or Booster Gold or someone else.

>>81433581
fuck you, that move was just as bad if not worse for different reasons

>>81434547
>I guess there is a silver lining and some relief that audiences and critics reject Snyder's garbage views of Superman.
That's ultimately why I'm happy because we're so powerful and insignificant in the equation but these poor ass receptions is making it more and more unlikely future generations will emulate Goyer and Synder and if they do they'll make sure to inject some real creative effort in.

I remember when MoS was hot out the theaters and you said something to the effect of, "Well there's the problem. You're saying they fixed Superman when fans never had a problem with him. People always go, what's wrong with Superman and how do we fix him? Never what's right with Superman and how do we feature that?"

With these movies doing so poorly we have a chance of something ignoring this universe and asking the better questions without looking down at our heroes.

>>81434645
Wouldn't Deadpool have suffered from said cape fatigue?

>>81434485
>Affleck did do a great job
this might be the solution. dc has one great batman and a soso ww make it work.

>>81433644
So, another movie that turns Batman into a thug puncher with a fortune greater than the GDP of most small countries, and investigative skills that Law&Order constantly outshines is a good thing to you? And I don't mean a good Law&Order like the SVU before 2011 or D'ONofrio on CI, I mean the shit ones like the original series after Orbach left or that God awful abortion starring Frasier's ex wife.

>>81431367
See

>>81434282
Amen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JqVB3iGp8E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CvkiPS5Ks

>>81434766
I meant powerless* and won't* emulate Goyer and Synder. I'm so delirious from happiness.

>>81430890
He didn't. He fully embraced the madness of a comic book and the casuals/critics dislike the movie outside of "Batman". If WB wanted to make a critically loved, highly successful movie, they'd have hired a subpar director/cinematographer whose movies look like every other action picture, a writer who churned out the same, generic schlup that someone like Bay would direct with some FUN FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY splashed in, and go from there.

Movie was pretty great honestly, in my opinion, I'm quite excited to see what happens with Suicide Squad and Justice League.

>>81434766
>>81434773
You know, this just reminded me about the time Tim Miller directed an animated short to sell Iron Man to audiences that had never heard of him (remember that this was done before 2008):

http://joequesada.tumblr.com/post/139315551573/deadpool-congrats-to-fox-and-everyone-involved

>As we at Marvel began plans on the first Iron Man movie our focus group research showed that we had some serious awareness issues with the character, especially amongst kids. One of the major takeaways was that kids who had zero knowledge of the character had no interest in him because they thought he was a robot. But when they found out that there was someone in the suit suddenly interest went off the charts and they wanted to know all about him and who could build no less kick ass in such awesome armor. Information like that helped us sculpt a plan to build awareness way in advance of the movie.

>In early 2007 Marvel assigned a small group of us to create what would eventually be called Iron Man Advertorials: Three animated shorts with a simple clean story that would introduce Iron Man to younger viewers using our two most recognizable characters at the time as bait. Our marching orders were to…

>1- Clearly demonstrate that there was a man inside the armor.

>2- Show off his wide range of cool powers.

>3- Position him clearly as a hero on the same level as Spidey and Hulk by having those characters show how cool they perceive him to be and valued him as a peer.

What WB really needs is someone similar to Tim Miller who can get right to the point about a character, like he did with the animated short and the Deadpool movie.

>>81434634
>At least they didn't shoot Jimmy Olsen dead in the first three minutes of his appearance as the movie began.

Did you hear what Synder said about this? He said there was no room for Jimmy in the universe but we can still have fun with him, right? That's like a literal quote. Fuck this movie.

>>81434643
>1) Bad future dream sequences that made no sense unless you had comics background.

They still don't make sense unless I just missed the issue where Batman becomes psychic.

>>81434729
It was the Flash; but it looked nothing like him. The only way anyone could tell is because it was clearly Ezra Miller's gross greasy rat mustache.

>>81434729
Wasn't it a lift from COIE?

>>81434643
>1) Bad future dream sequences that made no sense unless you had comics background.
Yeahh this was a mistake, It should be explained better. IT WAS NOT A DREAM it was a glimpse from the future produced by the proximity with the speed force used by flash to time travel to warn bruce. Learn your fake science co/ is the fun part about comics.

>>81434884

That was really cool, anon. Thanks for sharing. I wouldn't mind watching those other two shorts at all.

>What WB really needs is someone similar to Tim Miller who can get right to the point about a character, like he did with the animated short and the Deadpool movie.

YES. and would it be too greedy to say fuck a movie and just let them do an animated Superman series?

>>81434643
If they wanted to show a What If superman went bad, they could have easily done it in a simpler more comprehensible way.

Why not have Batman do a speech to Alfred to discuss the worst case scenario e.g. Injustice Superman, then overlay that speech with those sequences?

Just remove the Parademons, which made no fucking sense. Add in shots of Superman crushing a rebellion, dominating congress, having a superman militia and then frying Batman's friends.

>>81433581
The only good thing about that movie was Brandon Rooth and Kevin Spacey. They nailed the characters. The plot was stupid.

>>81435103
I think this was the entire thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAwP8Pbc7b8

I remembered seeing this back in the 00's, and at the same time they published a Marvel Adventures Spider-Man/Hulk/Iron Man comic. I didn't realize that it was all a point for them to sell Iron Man prior to making a film but in hindsight it was obvious.

>>81432189

The $250 million figure is lower than some reports; it could be taking sponsorship deals into account.

>>81434260

Deadpool was 2D only while BvS had a pretty high proportion of IMAX and 3D screenings, which usually cost about a third to half again as much as a 2D showing.

>>81434884
>One of the major takeaways was that kids who had zero knowledge of the character had no interest in him because they thought he was a robot. But when they found out that there was someone in the suit suddenly interest went off the charts and they wanted to know all about him and who could build no less kick ass in such awesome armor.

That is genuinely adorable.

>>81433846
And now it has BvS to keep it company.

Is this just another sign of the Superman curse?

>>81434288
This. I see Batman as the "bad guy" in that fight in the movie. He wanted to kill Superman while Superman wanted to talk.

I've heard some casual viewers, friends of mine saying things like "Batman sure kicked Superman's ass; Batman showed that Superlame that not everything is about punches or lasers but brain, Batman, Batman, Batman".

They don't care about the motivations or background or if he was being a complete asshole. It's Batman, that's all that matters.

File: man_of_steel_poster_monster_superman_henry_cavill.jpg (212KB, 650x950px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 650x950px

>>81434890

>>81435654
Superman threatened him first.

>>81435673
No one says good forever, Xenos.-Superman

>>81435696
No, Batman activated the traps first. He attacked first. What movie did you watched? Yes, I know Superman also went full retard when he stopped trying to dialog 30 seconds after, but even after that, he said he didn't want to kill him.

>>81432541
One of the comments I read somewhere after BvS came out:
>So apparently Zack Snyder is stronger than Darkseid, cause he single handed destroyed the DC universe.

>>81435797
Superman wrecked his Batmobile and told him to stop being Batman.

>>81435797
One of my favorite parts if before the fight when Superman is talking to Lois and he tells her he either has to convince him to help him or possibly kill him. I was fucking dying for like 10 mins.

i thought Mercy was pretty hot

>>81431021
pretty much this

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/superman-inside-story-director-richard-879894

>>81430890
the RT user score is still dropping too

>>81434645
THIS IS IT THE BUBBLES GONNA BURST I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR OVER FIVE YEARS BUT THIS TIME FOR SERIOUS

>>81435873
Look, I'm not saying Superman wasn't an out of character asshole in that movie. He chose to stop Batman instead of chasing the guys who were causing havoc in the streets just for telling him to stop being Batman. But he didn't wanted to end his life at least.

Also, I said Batman was the bad guy in their fight. By that point, Superman already knew Luthor plans and wanted to save his mother and end all of that without fighting. Batman was the only one still consumed by hatred and wanted to kill the "dangerous" alien and he was still manipulated. But who cares? Go Batsy!

>>81435873
Meant to quote >>81435858
And yes, that "Nobody stays good for ever" line, was a pain to hear.

>>81435896
You sonuvagun

>>81435972
>He chose to stop Batman instead of chasing the guys who were causing havoc in the streets just for telling him to stop being Batman.
Omg I completely forgot this happened too. I'm fucking crying.

>>81435654
The problem with the movie is that Batman/Bruce is portrayed as a sympathetic character in the 1st hour.

Superman wrecked Metropolis, Bruce saw his worker bees get slaughtered and decided he needed to stop Superman.

People can understand that and sympathize.

The turn where Batman went from a guy who simply wanted to "stop Superman" to someone who wanted to flat out murder the guy was barely seen.

The Reeves movies don't hold up because the writing is pretty shit. Superman goes to the arctic and then sits around listening his dad giving him lectures and presto, he's somehow Superman. Superman kisses Lois and mindwipes Lois in the process. The entire "you need to be powerless in order to be able to be with Lois" bullshit plot device that gets negated fifteen minutes later when Clark gets his powers back. Etc.

>>81436023
Well technically Batman started it first. The obviously law abiding citizens were just standing their ground in self-defence.

>>81436076
>The Reeves movies don't hold up because the writing is pretty shit.
Dude, people are way too harsh on these films. Not saying Superman I and II was perfect but definitely good enough to legitimize the entire genre. The problem came with firing Donner and confusing earnestness with camp. Otherwise, the great aspects of those films were adapted in comics while the sillier one disappeared. No one bothers to recognize that though. My favorite part in Superman II is him walking from a Diner in like Idaho to the arctic on foot while powerless to save the world. I think that was the most heroic Superman's been seen on film.

>>81436069

>The turn where Batman went from a guy who simply wanted to "stop Superman" to someone who wanted to flat out murder the guy was barely seen.

Because Batman and Superman have no reason to ever further the plot, so the script cheats and drums up ridiculous stations that make no sense. Batman's turn from repressed annoyance to MurderBats is never shown, it's just one random scene and suddenly he's getting suited up and ready to kill Supes.

Superman has so little motivation Lex Luthor basically has to breakdance into the finale and go "I kidnapped your mom because the third act has to start. Go fight." and breakdance back out so he can summon Shrek.

>>81434199
It's a mediocre Superman movie, but a far better Batman movie than the Nolan trilogy.

>>81436076
Better than DEAD HORSES, son.

>>81436023
Why wouldn't Superman stop Batman in that situation? He has no idea about KGBeast, all he has to go on is Batman having a machine gun fight/demolition derby in the middle of downtown Gotham. What the fuck was he supposed to do? Round up everyone and check IDs, which would have shown a group of Lexcorp hired PMCs transporting Lexcorp property to Lexcorp in a Lexcorp truck from a Lexcorp ship that Batman was trying to steal so that he could build a weapon to kill Superman?

>>81436069
>The turn where Batman went from a guy who simply wanted to "stop Superman" to someone who wanted to flat out murder the guy was barely seen.

From the very start he's obsessed with taking down Superman, and then senate bombing combined with his former security guard's returned checks with "you let your family die" message clearly throws him to the deep end. You see it in the wanton, unnecessary destruction at Lexcorp and his manic training montage. It's not rocket science, it's very clearly there if you're not an idiot.

>>81436253

>Why wouldn't Superman stop Batman in that situation?

Because Superman is never shown doing anything like that in the rest of the movie?

The montage is him saving people from disasters and accidents, and it's made clear the only reason he stepped in to take down the African warlord is because Lois was there. He's never shown stopping street crime at any point in the film.

>>81436253
Dude, they have firearms too. Big ones. At least, stop them all? He can, he's fucking Superman. The one thing I can suppose is he thought all the shooting was Batman's doing... but I don't know...

>>81436253
This is a guy with super-hearing, super speed and X Ray vision.

Of course he knew that KGBeast had heavy weaponry and was emptying it in the Batmobile.

>>81436291
So, he doesn't stop crime, then. Sounds a bit contrived... And, well, that's only an assumption. Yes, they only showed him saving people from disasters but that doesn't mean he did only that. Another of the problems with the movie, too little Superman develop in that aspect. And, at the end, if you're right on that he only was doing that, that's another thing I would hate.

>>81434884
>http://joequesada.tumblr.com/post/139315551573/deadpool-congrats-to-fox-and-everyone-involved

I remember this, I thought it was really cool that he had an armor load out for particular threats instead of just an entirely different armor.... Where's the part with the Hulk.

>>81436424
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU5wbpHScdc

Ignore the stupid title.

I'm getting real sick of people bringing up the rotten tomatoes meme it's so annoying holy shit
Like we get it critics don't like it, so what. We're comic book fans, we actually know what we're talking about.

>>81436544

I'm a comic fan and I saw a movie that turned a possibly great ideological battle into

>I think you're an asshole

>Well I think you're a faggot

>FUCK YOU

so I have plenty of reasons to be mad.

>>81436544

What makes you think that the critics aren't also comic book fans?

>>81436572
I thought I filtered you Vash.

File: 1417338404732-1.gif (3MB, 480x320px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 480x320px

>>81436544

>>81430890
Snyder doesn't even understand what the words "collateral damage" mean.

>>81436368
>Sounds a bit contrived...

You have to take into account the type of world they've built, with trying to make it more "realistic". Does catching purse snatchers sound something Clark would frequently do in this world, unless he happens to come by one? It makes sense that he mostly devotes his time saving people in accidents and disasters, rather than trying to awkwardly find street level situations where he can notice a citizen clearly going "omg I'm being mugged SOMEBODY HELP ME!!!"

>people taliking to Xenos
>people wanting a quipfest from BvS
I see a pattern here.

File: 1401070773628.png (93KB, 194x492px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 194x492px

>>81435917
>http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/superman-inside-story-director-richard-879894

>So I sat down and read the script, and it took forever. It was the longest thing I have ever read. It was indulgent and heavy and had no point of view and treated [the comic books] with disrespect.

>It was disparaging. It was just gratuitous action. I’m reading this thing and Superman’s looking for Lex Luthor in Metropolis, and he’s looking for every bald head in the city. And then he flies down and taps a guy on the shoulder and it‘s [Kojak’s] Telly Savalas, who hands him a lollipop and says, “Who loves ya, baby?”

>I was brought up on Superman as a kid. There was a whole point in my life where I read Superman. So when I was finished with it, I was like, “Man, if they make this movie, they are destroying the legend of Superman.” I wanted to do it just to defend him.

I feel like I'm going to cry. I NEED Donner's autograph before he dies. He's 85, time is short.

File: can't someone else do it.png (217KB, 512x384px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 512x384px

>>81437203

File: 34872.jpg (33KB, 384x720px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 384x720px

>>81432810
This is what frustrates me the most, because Cavill has that charisma in spades. The best parts of Man of Steel are when he's smiling- that grinning, symbol-of-hope Superman that you know he wants to be and CAN be, but the DCCU has a 'make it DARKER' rule that disallows it.

It's a damn shame.

>>81436255
So batman is so out of control because of the emotional toll the shit surrounding superman has brought into his life he has to kill him

BUT he is still able to sensibly set up a series of meticulous traps to take him down.

BECAUSE he is incredibly meticulous and has incredible ability to plan ahead and PREPare for any given situation

EXCEPT he didn't bother to take two fucking solid seconds during all his prep and forethought to consider if he was manipulated which would have been obvious to a regular person in his position.

The only thing that is very clearly there is the creators of this film needed batman and superman to fight so they made them both act like fucking morons in order for it to happen.

>>81437475
Write to him via his agent, if he still has one. You could also try writing WB, but you'd need to think about who you specifically try and contact and exactly what you're asking there.

>he flies down and taps a guy on the shoulder and it‘s [Kojak’s] Telly Savalas, who hands him a lollipop and says, “Who loves ya, baby?”

My dad told me this when I was a little kid watching the movie and I didn't believe it was true.

>>81437517
Yeah the few times he smiled in BvS were great.

>>81435936
ALSO NINTENDO IS DOOMED YOU HEARD IT HERE

>>81437544
http://contactanycelebrity.com/trial/do/celebrityView?name=Richard+Donner

7 day free trial anon. I think I'm going to go for it. Hope it's legit. I don't even know what I'd say once I'd have an email or number. Goddamn my social anxiety.

So it's just shy of 700mil with another 3 , 4 weeks of no competition? I thought the movie was fucking horrible but the "Flop of the century" posts are getting obnoxious

>>81436237

Yeah the Superman who was glum is somehow worse than the "Superman" who quit

>>81437475
>oldfags who still post in 4chan hate BvS
Nice to know.

File: LOL Brian Blessed.gif (2MB, 300x174px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 300x174px

>>81433872

Oh that's RICH. I'm taking delight in this. I knew this movie would be shit and I do SO love being proved right.

The fact Ben is depressed about it makes it all the sweeter.

>>81437641
Ben didn't deserve this, none of the actors in this shit show did

>>81437605
Yes, the Superman who obliterated his entire culture needlessly and caused the death of thousands, watched his dad die, flew to the other side of the planet while people were being squashed, left his mom alone with two hostile kryptonians, said nothing when a villain said having a sense of morality made him weak and them stronger for a lack of one is worse than a Superman who quit and came back before anyone died. Fuck off.

>>81437654
Yeah, right.

>>81437654

Deserve what? To get paid millions to star in a shit film? Boo fucking Hoo. They probably care less about this than you do. Eisenberg clearly doesn't give a fuck

>>81437660
>caused the death of thousands
Cool meme, bro.

>>81437621
I'm 25 dumbass.

>>81437682
Multiplied by 2 or 3?

>>81437678
This. The public should learn that Hollywood is not Obamacare.

>>81437660

Yeah but he only came back because of Zod. What about all the people who would have died if there was no Superman to save them? MoS Superman saved more people than Reeve did in 4 movies

>>81437697
>trying to reason with a DC hater
I like to have fun too.

>>81437664
Literally any time they tried voice concerns Snyder would just say "Push up off bro, me and you"

>>81437678
Affleck is a BatFan tried and true. The only reason he did Daredevil was because he thought that would be the closest he could get to Batman. So the fact he finally got to play Batman but was dragged down by Snyder is pretty heart breaking

>>81437697
MoS cause more death and saved the planet.
Reeve's saved the planet. One is clearly better here and it's not your trolling skills.

>>81437715
Also, Snyder did 9/11.

>>81434028
>For superman this isn't wholly ridiculous.
>guy who can build robots of himself
>decorated investigative reporter
>guy who's fought shit Batman couldn't dream
>arch enemy is a guy who manipulates people on the regular
>not ridiculous that he was manipulated

Fuck off casual.

>>81437724
Relax, grandpa. Medical bills are expensive, you know.

>>81437744
It's pasta, anon.

>>81437715

He's been widely regarded as the best part of the movie and gets to make his own Batman movie. Cry me a fucking river

>>81437538
>EXCEPT he didn't bother to take two fucking solid seconds during all his prep and forethought to consider if he was manipulated which would have been obvious to a regular person in his position.

Alfred keeps trying to talk sense to Bruce but he won't have any of it, because he's obsessed because he is letting his fears steer the boat.

Let me remind you that this is the same man who turned a childhood trauma into a life defining motivation to train his mind and body to peak level so that he could put on a bat-costume and spend his entire fortune on roaming the streets of Gotham and beating up criminals every night. Bruce's razor sharp focused determination to achieve a goal is almost a super power in itself.

>>81431021
Any Superman that gives up for pussy isn't my Superman.

You know what I most like about DC capes? That they can survive all kinds of enemies, including brand loyalty and movie failures.

>>81437799
That's why you're still a virgin, anon.

>>81437800

When did 700 million in 2 weeks become a failure?

>>81437820
B-but /co/ says that's nothing! Are you implying /co is wrong or something?

>>81433872
This legitimately makes me sad. The movie was mediocre and forgettable at best, but the best thing about it was Affleck. Feel like he was the best Bats since Keaton.

>>81437849
>mediocre and forgettable at best
Like a Marvel movie?
>inb4 company wars; I'm saying thngs I've read from MCU fans

>>81437820
because /co/ says. For serious, this movie wasn't going to flop. It's the fact that it under-performed hard. 1 billion for a movie that cost $400 million is a huge failure. Batman v Superman if it was a great movie had potential to rival Star Wars.

>>81430890
It's going to break even, at least, by the end of its theater-run.

>>81437820
the movie cost over 400 million.
A movie that fails to make over double its budget was not worth the money, because that money could have been spent of movies that would make more than double their budget

>>81437864
>had potential to rival Star Wars
In that case it would have been a rehash of a previous Superman or Batman movie, and with the capes being minorities because muh progressiveness. I can hear the screams of FUND IT! FUND IT!

>>81437872
Hollywood is so full of movies like that.

>>81437820
Underperforming!=flop
With IPs like Batman and Superman you're expecting a much larger return. BvS was an investment for the future and it was supposed to set a financial standard for something like JL but what was expected to hit $1 billion is making way less, even if it made double its budget back

>>81437886
Finn was the best character in TFA tho, and not because he was black

>>81437887
Also TV reruns, Blu-Ray, streaming... At this point they know how to make money every time, no matter what /co/ says.

>>81437895
So why making him black? Hmmm?

>>81430890
He didn't? Superman Unchained was pretty good, and his Batman run has had more highs than lows. I know, I know, /co/ hates Scott Snyder, but you have to admit his run isn't flopping: It's DC's best-selling title.

>>81437820
>>81437836
Even if they "only" invested 300 million over the past 3 years in this one movie, that would still mean it was underperforming as an investment. That makes future investment in the sequence harder to acquire because investors would rather put their money into something that will make money. Given that they have another five going and three of those still presumably need funding - and this movie isn't making enough to both pay back investors and make a profit from the gross - that is a problem. Not that most movies do make a profit from the gross, but that's a different problem.

>>81437692
>pretend to be under 25
>hating on obamacare

I take it you've never been seriously ill? Bet you haven't got any kind of pension saving going on either. Or were you just born rich and never had to work for anything in your life?

>>81437907
Why not make him black? why make him white? Why not make him an alien? Why not make him a chick? Why not make Rey a dude?

I don't fucking know, ask Abrams

>>81437872
also the profits are meant to be something that can be in turn invested in the sequels
WB were planning on getting way more money to add to the DCCU budget

>>81437910
>/co/ hates Scott Snyder
It's the family name; you're a Snyder, you're fucked here.

>>81437913
>blah blah blah
You bore me, Economics 101 student.

>>81437910
Kek

>>81437924
>Why not make him an alien?
Jedi don't like it very much when main characters are not human. Muh relating to characters and such.
>I don't fucking know, ask Abrams
That's what his career is about.

>>81437864
>Batman v Superman if it was a great movie had potential to rival Star Wars

I wish people would stop saying this. Star Wars is bigger than Batman and Superman have ever been. It has much more fans and moves so much more merch that it's laughable to /co/ thinks they're in the same league. Not to mention Star Wars comics are crushing superheroes in sales. Kanan FUCKING KANAN sells better than Superman

>>81437933
>make a dumb point
>anon explains why you're wrong
>UGH YOUR A BORING IDIOT STOP TALKING
No wonder you don't understand why it underperformed

>>81437948
>Not to mention Star Wars comics are crushing superheroes in sales
Marvel Comics is dying because of this.

>>81437955
>2deep4u
Like BvS!

>>81437907
>Also TV reruns, Blu-Ray, streaming... At this point they know how to make money every time, no matter what /co/ says.

But most of that money won't come for years and is already earmarked for the future running costs/shareholder dividends of the company, which makes around 60% of its annual income from back catalog. It's not a good argument for spending $400m a go on this type of movie, especially when even the biggest competitors aren't spending anything like that amount.

The problem is that it's too late to trim the fat from that budget and the same people are involved in the following movies. Affleck's fees alone will be a significant chunk of each budget when he appears. Add in everybody else who's slated to return and you have a decade of uncomfortably high budgets for a series that, by any reasonable measure, hasn't really performed all that well for the level of spending it receives. Hell, ASM2 killed the last Sony Spider-Man franchise stone cold dead, and it cost the same as and made virtually the same as Man of Steel. Something is seriously wrong with WB.

>>81437964

Marvel is dying because of relaunches. Fuck them. They deserve to die

>>81430890
Because he made the equivalent of a temper tantrum. People criticized his Superman movie, so he spent an entire movie shitting on his own creation:

>Blamed for murder and causing international unrest
>Has an anti-Superman squad in the senate
>Has a cripple deface his statue
>His one big montage of heroic work is spliced into talking heads debating over the need of a Superman
>Protestors whereever he goes
>For all the talk about the world loving him, there isn't a single sequence until the end to convey it
>Doesn't prevent the allah ackbar and it blamed for it to the point where he goes on another long walk
>Bows to Lex like a little bitch
>The big fight between Batman and Superman is short and completely one sided in Batman's favor
>Would have died if not for Lois pleading with the much more manly and superior Batman to spare him
>Has to let Batman save his own mother so he can get wrecked by Doomsday
>The President of the U.S nukes him at the first opportunity
>During the big battle, he's constantly knocked away whilst Wonder Woman is the one to stand her ground and takes control of the fight
>Has to use Batman's weapons to kill his own villain
>Dies

It's like Zack just threw all his toys out the pram thinking "oh you hated my Superman, well here's a whole movie were everyone hates hi, he doesn't nothing right and is treated like a total bitch by everyone. I'm even killing my version off since you hate him so much."

This was not the movie for a Superman fan. This was pure Batwank and Superhate.

File: cut it out.gif (23KB, 250x180px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 250x180px

>>81437964

>>81432249
oh great.

more batman.

>>81437972
Dude, what did I tell you about your pastas? >>81437933

>>81437989
Oh, but it will be analyzed, rewatched, and discussed here for decades, DECADES!

>>81437989
>waaaaah I don't like it
>Hence Snyder hates Superman

I never understand the logic behind this type of mental gymnastics

>>81433581
This scene basically encapsulates the treatment of Superman in DC Extended Universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOTOM027CFA

>>81438013
It's very common for capefags to feel that everyone hates them and/or their childish hobby.

File: I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.png (497KB, 1152x480px) Image search: [Google]

497KB, 1152x480px

>>81438032
>DUDE KRYPTONITE DILDO LMAO
So that's why you liked it, huh /co/?

>>81437989
>Has a cripple deface his statue
Why did he even get a fucking statue when he's the reason Zod came to Earth and ultimately all those people died?

>Would have died if not for Lois pleading with the much more manly and superior Batman to spare him
As a Superman fan you get use to Superman being shit on to elevate Batman sadly.

>Has to use Batman's weapons to kill his own villain
Damn

>This was not the movie for a Superman fan.
Neither was Man of Shit. Hopefully we can get a reboot.

>>81438086
>Hopefully we can get a reboot.
You'd watch-and-hate it anyway.

>>81438086
>Why did he even get a fucking statue when he's the reason Zod came to Earth and ultimately all those people died?

Because plenty of people saw him as a hero.

>>81434014
>>81434014
>the fucking nuke scene with the sun healing superman is the one i hated most. It was just fucking meaningless when it could have been so much more.
It had more meaning here then it did in TDKR, here he sees the nuke coming and still holds on to DD, showing he is willing to possibly die to save the world even before he is willing to admit such to himself as he would at the end.

>>81434014
>the editing was horrible
One of these days I will buy one of those How To Watch A Movie books too.

>>81438114
>You'd watch-and-hate it anyway.
Nope, gave Man of Shit a chance. Can't get worse than "KRYPTON HAD ITS CHANCE AND DOESN'T DESERVE ANOTHER." dude for me.

>>81438116
>Because plenty of people saw him as a hero.
I guess he got it after he did more basic public heroing? It really bothered me to see it though.

>>81438149
>a chance
>a
Some days ago I met an anon who said he hated MoS; he confessed he watched it 20+ times.
>I'm trying to find a virtue in this movie, I swear!

>>81438165
Nice internet anecdote, senpai.

>>81437989
Your full of fucking shit.
WHY, I'm begging you to explain how putting a character thru struggles and hardship equals hating the character.
>>81438086
>Why did he even get a fucking statue when he's the reason Zod came to Earth and ultimately all those people died?
Because it was a fucking accident! And that has absolutely ZERO barring on his heroism once people were in danger.

File: dog8.jpg (802KB, 848x848px) Image search: [Google]

802KB, 848x848px

>>81435821
>Snyder is stronger than Darkseid
>Snyder is Earth-33 manifestation of The Gentry
>Grant Morrison dislikes his Superman
>Grant Morrison was right

H Y P E R C R I S I S

>>81438165
Masochism is a thing anon.

>>81434645
Tell that to TV capes, and Daredevil. And Deadpool for fuck sake.

>>81437989
And yet they keep repeating throughout the whole movie that most people love Superman. That's one of the flimsiest parts of the BvS.

>>81438013
>implying you can't have a team up movie with out making one of your flagship characters a bitch

>>81438178
>WHY, I'm begging you to explain how putting a character thru struggles and hardship equals hating the character.

Because he doesn't overcome those struggles. There's not a single scene in the movie where Superman is treated as a hero. There's no little "win" he has. There's no showing of public support until his death. This is a Superman who's shit on by everyone the entire movie until he dies.

He just needed something. Rather than having Clark tell Bruce that most of the world loves Superman, why not an actual scene of the people of Metropolis supporting him? Where is the scenes of people loving Superman? His funeral at the end is so weird because the film has shown nothing but the public criticizing him, demonizing him, protesting against him and blaming him for countless murders. How am I supposed to believe the world would mourn Superman if I don't get to see the people even remotely cheer for him.

>>81438178
>Because it was a fucking accident!
Yeah sorry, if any family member of mine died because Superman took no precaution with an alien craft and just stuck his necklace in with no barring whatsoever to the consequences at all I'd blow up that statue.

>And that has absolutely ZERO barring on his heroism once people were in danger.
Wrong. I recall a scene where Superman flew down a building so fast the windows broke from the force and then once he punched Zod left a giant crater in it. At no moment did he attempt to flee. Hell, when he needlessly destroyed the Gensis ship, his whole culture's last hope of revival, that ship crashed into a populated build and street. Fuck off dude.

>>81432189

$250 million is purely production budget. This generally includes the budget of the entire filming only

They could have released this movie an year ago because they had completed filming and post production by then already

>>81438260
>Not understanding MoS and BvS at all.

I shouldn't be surprised, but... sigh.

>>81431367

Green Arrow Season 1 was close enough

>>81438265
>There's not a single scene in the movie where Superman is treated as a hero

What about the house fire in Mexico? Oh that's right, latino's don't count, just like in real life.

>>81438291
He looked like he was holding his shit in. I took it that being there wasn't something he was enjoying. We need to follow what we see in big screen anon, not our headcannon.

I'm not>>81438265 btw.

>>81438177
Search desu.

>>81438202
No one cares about TV, anon.

>>81438372

He was feeling uncomfortable by the worship he was receiving.

I thought about it hard and realized that the only scene in BvS that I sort of liked was Superman rescuing people montage. That was the most The Dark Knight Returns thing in the movie without it directly aping off panels. News shows shooting opinions back and forth intercut with Superman coming to rescue people presented in this somber tone. I guess the point of it is that it doesn't matter how many people Superman saves there will still be a controversy because the media doesn't care about people, it only cares about an image. It would've been sad if I cared about Superman in these movies but I don't. Fuck that mopey asshole.

>>81438283
>>81438178

first of all I though Mn of steel was okay even though the portrayal was fucking shifty
>pa kent being scared instead of a pillar of support
going for a different portrayal shifty but
>Clark being a drifter
but at least he is still saving people.fine
>all the wanton destruction
>killing
little weird how they so much emphasize on the destruction , but hey you know what its Supermans first time and its more Zods fault. fine
but Batman V. Superman
>>81437989
Even though Bats was in the wrong, it portrayed him as being right and did everything in its power to portray Clark as a Jesus metaphor. yet being bitched out by EVERYBODY then KILLED i'm not saying not to do a death of Superman story but holy shit. I'm not saying don't put through hardships but at least make him competant

>>81438291
It was undercut by talking heads giving him grief. It actually treated him as the exact opposite of a hero. The scene showed all these big heroic things Superman did, but after every moment, it had politicians and experts taking him to task for them. The whole scene was him trying to do his best, only to get shit on by the public for even trying. The scene even ends with Clark watching these news broadcasts and being really depressed over the mean things they were saying.

Poor guy just can't catch a break

>>81438412
All they did this movie was prop Batman up and tear Superman down and its not even a good portrayal of Batman. I mean I never expected Superman to win to appease the casuals. But before this movie came out I expected him to lose on purpose once they got done hammering each other sit down and talk like adults.

>>81438412
>The weapon designed to kill Superman is a spear
>Batman literally created Longinus, the spear that pierced Christ
>Even though it's never used, Doomsday actually does impale Superman to kill him
>Movie ends hinting at Kal's return

So many Christ allusions.

>>81438010
>oh shit I just go BTFO
>i can't rebut but I must!
>i know let's defect it as pasta
>call him boring!
>yeah, tha'll show him i'm so witty lol

>>81438457
Batman was clearly in the wrong the entire movie you idiot.

If you thought this portrayal of Batman was depicted as right that's on you for grossly missing the point.

>>81438433
I thought it was ludicrous that he had never talked to any press or answered to the people for the Metropolis attack. Like, these people deserve an explanation after what happened. How does he not explain himself to anyone after a year and a half?

>>81438520
Well of course he was in the wrong, he didn't kill Alienman.

>>81438542
Why didn't Superman just hire a PR agent?

>>81438520
Is it though? We see (not the whole story) that Superman is apparently ready to go full fascist mode at the drop of a hat if Lois dies.

And what the fuck is with him wrecking the Batmobile and trying to intimidate Batman into giving up. What the fuck? Just fucking talk to him, don't resort to violence immediately Superman.

>>81438569
>And what the fuck is with him wrecking the Batmobile and trying to intimidate Batman into giving up.

From his POV, Bruce was a lunatic who got a boner for torturing criminals for fun.

>>81438591
How is it different from smashing criminals through walls?

>>81438269
The military would have taken even less precaution and would have spent the next century reverse engineering it and using it as weapons.
Clark can't predict the future it is not humanly possible for him to have forseen this happening, the ship was in the ice for TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS!
>I recall a scene where Superman flew down a building so fast the windows broke from the force and then once he punched Zod left a giant crater in it
That isn't a billionth of the damage Zod did. Clark was horrifically holding back.
>At no moment did he attempt to flee
Because Zod stated he will kill humanity one by one to spite Clark, the instant Clark runs away or tries to lead him away Zod might have started slaughtering civilians directly. It was ABSOLUTELY was the right god damn thing for Clark to keep the fight between them and only then.
>Hell, when he needlessly destroyed the Gensis ship, his whole culture's last hope of revival
Had he not taken out the scout ship then Zod could have re aimed and taken out the last chance to take out Zod's ship and had he not the army of Kryptonians could have overrun the earth!

>>81438520
you really think casuals will get that though?all they saw was Batman kicking Superman's ass and that's what they payed to see. you think when most people bring up the dark knight returns they care about sociopolitical message or Batman being portrayed as a unhinged fascist? no all they care about is Batman kicking Superman's ass. For the love of god they one of comics most memorable bffs is it that bad to portray them as that? If Snyder wanted to portray the fight comepetently and get a message across it would have Clark try to talk to Batman through the whole fight and Bta wondering why he isn't fighting back instead of giving up 30 seconds in and get trounced on through the whole thing.

>>81438569
>We see (not the whole story) that Superman is apparently ready to go full fascist mode at the drop of a hat if Lois dies.

That's Bruce's paranoid dreams that are possibly also under the influence of AntiLife.

>>81438599

Do you... not understand the concept of torture? Smashing a warlord through a wall when he's holding a hostage is not the same as beating the living shit out of a guy and then taking time to brand his skin.

>>81438617
>you really think casuals will get that though?

Who cares what casuals will get. The film was very fucking blatant that Batman was a warped man who'd gone off the deep end.

Anyone who didn't get that was either a stupid batfag, someone with batfag insecurities or a moron who refused to engage with the film.

Blaming the film for people missing the point when it's not even that hard to figure out if you pay the slightest bit of attention is pretty dumb.

>>81430890
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_v_Superman:_Dawn_of_Justice
>budget
>$250 million
>gross
>$682.9 million
It's not flopping, you retard. Underperforming, yes, but not flopping. A movie that makes TWICE its budget isn't a flop.

>>81438618
>>81438618
>>81438618
So the Flash traveling through time was a dream? or him under the influence of the anti-life? you're a faggot.Lord knows why you're defending Hack Snyder like your life depends on it. But don't lie.

>>81438591
But why resort the threats straight away? Talking to Batman at first probably wouldn't have changed his mind, but it would've at least given Clark some insight into Bruce's views. Like maybe "this guy's got good intentions but goes about it the wrong way". It just felt so forced to me. Like Goyer wrote him to act like a fascist dick just so Batman could have something to get angry about.

>>81438637
much like the Donner films these movies will affect how Superman will be portrayed in media and if all people expect Superman to be this big dumb brute that's all we're going to get in adaptions.

>>81438648
The Flash travelling through time isn't the same as the Knightmare.

And we don't even know what Barry's cryptic message was about. It's not necessarily part of this whole Superman reign dystopia, hell Batman grossly misinterpreting the message is kind of the point.

>>81430890
It's a combo of a few things.

1) Synder has officially hit Shyamalan levels of hate in the general public. Anything he touches will now be poisoned going forward.

2) DC has mishandled Superman for decades. He's fallen massively in the public perception, to the point where Batman is now considered the main DC superhero.

3) Starting with Man of Steel was a huge mistake. It should have opened with a solo Batfleck movie that maybe hinted at a new reporter joining the Daily Planet.

4) The directors cut being 3 hours long makes me wonder WTF Warner was thinking. Allowing the script to bloat to that size was a massive mistake, the movie should have topped out at 2 hours max.

>>81438656
>But why resort the threats straight away?

Luthor had a little earlier sent him a collection photos of the torture victims, detailing the injuries with something like "Is This Justice?" written on them. Clark was a bit triggered by Batman's brutal methods on people. Who wouldn't?

>>81438676
Superman isn't a big dumb brute in either of the movies, how are you even misinterpreting the film to such an extent?

He's quiet, melancholic and full of doubts and insecurities. He's also kind of antisocial. Nothing about Cavill's Superman is a big dumb brute, just withdrawn and reserved.

>>81438710
He hasn't done one smart thing in the Snyderverse.

>>81434927
>What are speedforce-induced time shenanigans

>>81438700
If Clark, a full grown adult with the powers of a fucking God, can be so easily manipulated by some photos and can't develop his own fully informed opinion by talking to the person in question himself then he's a fucking idiot who deserves to have his shit pushed in by Batman.

>>81438645
That's only the production budget. Marketing for a movie of this size is at least 80 million more on top of that.

Also, last time Snyder got 10% of the worldwide gross. He was the highest paid director of 2013 because of that fact.

So you can take 10% of that straight out, and 50% of it of course goes to distribution, leaving 40%, or 273 million to pay the budget and marketing off.

Depending on how well it does next weekend, it may still be an outright flop, just like Superman Returns.

>>81438700
SUPES FUCKING BRUTALLY KILLED PEOPLE AT LEAST 2 PEOPLE. He has no right to be upset by methods. He's a fucking hypocrite.

>>81438700
>Clark was a bit triggered by Batman's brutal methods on people
This is the guy who put somebody through a brick wall?

>>81438753

He already knew about Batman's cruel and unusual punishments and wanted to write a story about it, then the pictures arrive and gave him a a cold, close look at the type of horrendous torture Batman was inflicting on people. You honestly think Superman would not feel it was his duty to do something about it?

>>81438710
Stop with the headcannon already.

File: 12_29.jpg (547KB, 1600x1230px) Image search: [Google]

547KB, 1600x1230px

>>81438710
other than this
>>81438728
Why this
>He's quiet, melancholic and full of doubts and insecurities. He's also kind of antisocial.

What's so wrong abut pic related?

>>81438768
>Justifiable homicide, i.e. killing someone in order to save lives that were in imminent danger is the same as torturing people for no apparent gain beyond than of one's own deranged pleasure

Seriously, broheim?

>>81438700
Is that all it takes to make 2 people fight? Is that good enough reason to make 2 super heroes fight?

>someone send me pictures of child being molested
>"anon did it!"

FUCKING ANON!

>>81438817
Not that Anon, but could Superman killing normal people ever be justifiable? It's like killing an infant.

>>81438775
>You honestly think Superman would not feel it was his duty to do something about it?

Absolutely I think he should confront Batman. I wished he would have talked to fucking Batman without crashing his car and then tearing off the roof. You're a fucking God. Show some maturity. Don't act like an emotional child.

But I guess if he acted like a hero and used his fucking brain we couldn't have been railroaded into that final Batman and Superman fight could we?

>>81438775
and? that doesn't mean the first thing he would do is threaten people and force people. Don't forget he's an INVESTIGATIVE reporter and should have try dong his own research off the books like he would do in any other adaption. Then would have waited until Batman was about to brand ad tortured them and stopped him telling him that he's going too far.

>>81438775
So, Superman was biased?

>>81438831
>I wished he would have talked to fucking Batman without crashing his car and then tearing off the roof. You're a fucking God. Show some maturity. Don't act like an emotional child.

So much this.

>>81438699
>Synder has officially hit Shyamalan levels of hate in the general public.

This is true. I work a theater and I've seen way to many groups go with another movie because Synder was the director.

Literally had a group of 10 decided to go see Zootopia instead of BvS purely because of it.

Shyamalan is the only other director I've seen this happen to. Christ, even Uew Boll gets a better reception.

>>81438828
No its not, not when the infant is holding a gun on another infant's head.
Only thing else he could do is heat the gun up with heat vision but that could have caused the ammunition in the chamber to go off or it could have caused the guy holding the gun to panic and fire the gun.

>>81438817
He could have handled that situation a lot differently. Arriving earlier and saving Jimmy Olsen, for example, would be great.

I swear to God joel schmacher came back from the dead to make this movie.

How many criminals did batman even kill in this movie holyshit.

File: 0A6CTrk.jpg (185KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 768x1024px

>>81438859
or this

>>81438859
Could Superman not have used his super speed and strength to simply disarm the gunman in question? Or stood in front of him? He the goddamn Superman for Pete's sake.

And melting the barrel most likely would not have effected the the chamber.

File: sZHgUlb.jpg (179KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

179KB, 768x1024px

>>81438897
>>81438859

>>81438859
>Only thing else he could do is heat the gun
what the fuck is the point of having superspeed if you can't safely disarm a single infant?

File: HCuqaHm.jpg (166KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 768x1024px

>>81438912
>>81438859
>>81438897
I guess this was out of the question

>>81438591
>From his POV, Bruce was a lunatic who got a boner for torturing criminals for fun.

See how Daredevil handles an actual maniac in the series. It's crazy but they talk to each other.

>>81438897
>>81438912
Has the art ever been good in the Nu52 action comics outside of the specials?

>>81433581
No, Cavill is a better Supes.
I do like this guy as Atom though.

>>81438897
>>81438912

>Superman
>using his head and his heart

Snyder's Superman is immature, emotional, and clearly has zero social skills.

>>81438903
>And melting the barrel most likely would not have effected the the chamber.

Heat-vision is for genocide only, anon.

>>81438934
you see that would make so much sense and we need our flagship characters to fight for no reason.

>>81438897
>>81438912
Guy was a genocidal warlord, its ill likely he would be talked down and more likely he would kill Lois out of spite even knowing Clark may kill him after.
>>81438903
>Could Superman not have used his super speed and strength to simply disarm the gunman in question?
He is fast but his speed contains alot of force, he could not just flash appear infront of them with his hand between the gun and Lois him speeding up to them would probably send them both flying into the wall behind them.
>And melting the barrel most likely would not have effected the the chamber.
He was pretty far away, might not have been able to focus his vision on just the barrel.

>>81438942
at this point I want Superman to stay dead so they can't ruin him any more.

>>81438957
>Guy was a genocidal warlord, its ill likely he would be talked down and more likely he would kill Lois out of spite even knowing Clark may kill him after.
That doesn't mean he can't try

File: feelbonacci.png (107KB, 841x797px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 841x797px

>>81438966
I know bro...

>>81437517
That Clark/Lois bath scene was one of my favorite parts of the movie. Also the "you are my world". They need to give Supes more moments like that.
And I really hope we get the Clark in Gotham's prison scene in the extended cut.

>>81438950
I'm pretty sure DD and Punisher fought like 5 times and the talk happened after their first fight. Unless you're not talking about Netflix.

>>81438938
>Has the art ever been good in the Nu52 action comics outside of the specials?
That is from the Superman title not the Action comics title.
And Aaron Kuder is great.

>>81438957
He could have flashed up and clogged the barrel with his finger, he could have Super-flicked the gun, he could have broken the guy's arm. Or he could have burnt the guy's hand, or Super-racked the slide until empty.

He's Superman for crying out loud, his job is being the guy who always finds a way.

>>81438987
This.

>>81433581
I miss your lex luthor.

>>81438928
>>81438912
Nice.

>>81438997
>He's Superman for crying out loud, his job is being the guy who always finds a way.
No he is not, that is mary sue bullshit, this is a world with realistic options and consequences.

>>81439034
You mean like coming back from the dead?

>>81439034
>>81439043
Don't forget time travel, superpowers, aliens, a immortal evil god coming to fuck things up, and Doomsday.

>>81439043
He means realistic like in dubstep monster out of fucking nowhere realistic. You know? Real things like time travel and immortals.

>>81439034
Then why on God's green earth would you use Superman of all people? Superman is supposed to be an idealist in a flawed world, not some mopey killer.

The Superman I know would have flown between the guy and Lois, taken the full mag to the chest/face, and then said "You're a very persistent man, aren't you general?". That, or used his ice-breath to freeze the guy.

>>81438897

>believing a street thug would react the same as a genocidal warlord

Fucking idiot.

>>81439064
Oh God, I can't fucking wait to watch a 3 hour long movie about political ramifications of magic space demons coming to Earth.

>>81439095
>believing a genocidal warlord wasn't cared shitless of Superman like the thug and Superman couldn't at least TRY to talk him down until he had no other options.
Fucking retard
I can see you're Snyders target audience.

>>81439107
Oh god, WB just kill the DCCU and focus on T.V.

>>81438835
>Don't forget he's an INVESTIGATIVE reporter

Lois is an investigative reporter, Clark only writes puff pieces in this Earth. And all his investigation would do is confirm what he already knew, Batman had gone off the deep end and was now torturing people.

>>81439043
>>81439064
>>81439076
That all works under the fact that this is Sci-fi and works fine within the world they have created.

But Superman being a solve everything flawlessly machine breaks even that threshold, it destroys any notion that their is any danger to anyone in this world. It destroys any tension or sense of urgency.
Superman must struggle and actually work to accomplish good lest the story have jack shit to draw the audience in and captivate them.

>>81439034
>Missing the point of the character this hard

Dude, he's fucking superman. He's not meant to be realistic. He's meant to be better than humanity, in order to give the rest of it something to strive to match. In fact, the "Mary Sue bullshit" of it all is one of the reasons Lex hates him so much in the majority of his portrayals, because he is so much better than humanity without apparently even trying

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4173&p=.htm

>In fact, the film's second weekend plummet is on par with last year's Fantastic Four, which dropped 68.2% in its second weekend, ultimately delivering a multiplier of 2.18. That said, Fantastic Four received an even worse reception than Batman v Superman, receiving only a "C-" CinemaScore compared to BvS's "B" and a 9% RottenTomatoes score compared to Batman v Superman's 29%. Should BvS also finish with a 2.18 multiplier that would still result in a domestic run of $362.8 million, enough to rank in the top 30 all-time.

>>81438987
The difference with with Matt and Frank is that Matt didn't know anything about Frank. He knows Frank is a lunatic with a gun who has already massacred dozens of gang-members with extreme prejudice and military style assaults. Frank isn't a good guy by any means. Matt by now is a seasoned vigilante ready to use violence against criminals and murderers. Bruce Wayne may kill people in BvS, but I get the idea it's only when he's left with no choice. Not to mention Batman is already an experience vigilante who by this point is certainly recognized for his good deeds.

On top of that, Supes is invincible. He has nothing to lose by standing and talking to his enemies, especially those who he doesn't seem to understand.

Above all else, Matt Murdock is a moody, angst ridden, grim sort of guy. I feel like Clark Kent shouldn't be any of those things. I don't mind the attempt at deconstructing one of the most notorious boy-scout do-gooders in comics, but it felt like he's never going to resemble any kind of Superman we know from previous incarnations.

>>81439183
Oh, with Superman in those movies there sure is a danger to EVERYONE IN THE WORLD except for Lois Lane.

>>81439183
so wait Superman ca't ber SUPERMAN because to you that makes him a mary sue?
I can also see you're Zack Snyders target audience.

>>81439196
>Dude, he's fucking superman. He's not meant to be realistic.
There is no 1 god damn way he is MEANT to be, Earth One's is just as valid as Red son which is just as valid as the new 52 which is just as valid as pre new 52.
Doing something new and different and inventive with the fucking character is not missing the point of him.

If a character breaks under realistic circumstances then he isn't a well written fucking character.

>>81439230
>He has nothing to lose by standing and talking to his enemies
Lois's fucking life!

>>81439183
>But Superman being a solve everything flawlessly machine breaks even that threshold, it destroys any notion that their is any danger to anyone in this world. It destroys any tension or sense of urgency.

But you need to take in consideration, dear Anon, that once it's stabilished that Superman has a certain set of powers, it is inevitable to wonder why he doesn't use them. Also: talking is very realistic and Supers BARELY talks in this movie. Hell, Neil Degrasse Tyson has almost as many lines as him I think.

>Superman must struggle and actually work to accomplish good
Too bad this doesn't happen in the movie. No one likes him at the beginning and then BAM! "We love Superman" at the end.

>>81439249
Being able to do everything perfectly with no flaws and no mistakes IS NOT FUCKING REQUIRED for him to be a valid version of Superman, FUCK YOU!